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Re: water storage for microhydro

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  • leeerussell
    ... modern ... supply is ... in cases ... (somewhat ... woodworking ... tank can ... during dry ... required ... a vastly ... river) ... turbine as a ...
    Message 1 of 3 , Feb 28, 2004
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      --- In microhydro@yahoogroups.com, Ron and Diane <cnsorata@c...>
      wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Good on you, Lee!!
      >
      > That is the kind of innovative thinking that is needed in
      modern
      > microhydro.
      > Your storage tank is a kind of "water battery".
      > This kind of approach can be used in places where the water
      supply is
      > intermittent,
      > such as a shared water source, like an irrigation ditch. Or
      in cases
      > like yours where the water flow is seasonally variable.
      > One my Watermotor website (www.watermotor.net) there is a page
      > entitled "unconventional waterpower systems" where I discuss a
      (somewhat
      > larger) water storage system used to run shop machines, such as
      woodworking
      > tools.
      > Since most shop tools are run intermittently, a water storage
      tank can
      > act as a battery that can keep a waterpowered workshop operating
      during dry
      > season using a water source with only a fraction of the full flow
      required
      > to operate the turbine in real time. This system potentially makes
      a vastly
      > greater number of waterpower sites available. Usually all (run of
      river)
      > waterpower systems are sized to minimum flow conditions.
      > This is oriented to direct-drive waterpower where we use the
      turbine as a
      > "motor" to drive power tools rather than produce electricity.
      Direct drive
      > is much cheaper, far more simple, and converts about 75% of the
      available
      > waterpower into usable energy. It is also not susceptible to being
      damaged
      > by hard use, as is an electrical system.
      >
      >
      > Your method of turning the flow on and off is interesting as
      well. I
      > wonder if there are low-cost electric valves that operate slowly
      enough not
      > to cause problems with water hammer (temporary high pressure
      caused by
      > suddenly blocking the flow in a pipe by closing a valve)
      > Perhaps you could use some sort of float valve in the tank that
      would
      > automatically open the tank outlet when the water was at a certain
      height,
      > rather than an electric switch, but there would be the problem of
      the water
      > flowing suddenly down the penstock and encountering the nozzle.
      Perhaps if
      > the float valve in the storage tank could somehow open
      gradually...
      >
      > In any case, there are a number of people who could use a system
      like
      > yours to great benefit. It would be interesting to get the opinion
      of some
      > of the microhydro pros like Harris, Cunningham, ect, on this
      subject.
      > Perhaps they have already produced such systems, since nearly all
      of their
      > turbines are used to charge batteries.
      >
      > Ron Davis,
      > La Paz, Bolivia
      >
      > Ron thanks for the advice. I started out using a regular
      toilet tank valve with a hard plastic flapper valve. The soft type
      would start to open to early alowing the water to escape and the
      tank would not always fill up. I extended the overflow tube with a
      rubber radiator hose above the tank level. I used two one gallon
      plastic bottles tied together with wire. I then tied then connected
      the float to the flapper valve with a small chain. I had to keep the
      float on a short tether so it would not interfear with the with
      flapper valve chain . I also had to close off all but a little of
      the overflow tube because to much air entering and the flapper valve
      would not work properly. This would all work well except that I
      would not get much power at the hydro until the water reached the
      hydro and all the air escaped. This was a very cheap and easy way to
      get started and I know there are better ways that would be more
      eficient. So far the sprinkler valve I am using has not failed to
      work. We just had some major rain storms and iam now able to leave
      the sprinkler valve opened manual all day and night .I am getting
      approximatly thirty gal. a minute at the tank and approx. fifteen
      gal. a min. out at hydro with 3/8 ths. nozzle . I need to put
      another nozzle in as soon as possible. Thanks!!
      >
      >
    • Stuart Fraser
      If you have high enough head you can use the pressure in the penstock to operate a 1/4 turn actuator controlled by a small solenoid valve with needle valves to
      Message 2 of 3 , Mar 1, 2004
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        If you have high enough head you can use the pressure in the penstock to
        operate a 1/4 turn actuator controlled by a small solenoid valve with
        needle valves to control the opening and closing speed.

        I used this method for a turbine I built that had low summer flow, the
        float switch provides histeresis and a small battery supplies the power
        for the solinoid for the few seconds it takes for the turbine to spin up
        and provide power.

        Stuart



        On Sun, 2004-02-29 at 04:20, leeerussell wrote:
        > --- In microhydro@yahoogroups.com, Ron and Diane <cnsorata@c...>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Good on you, Lee!!
        > >
        > > That is the kind of innovative thinking that is needed in
        > modern
        > > microhydro.
        > > Your storage tank is a kind of "water battery".
        > > This kind of approach can be used in places where the water
        > supply is
        > > intermittent,
        > > such as a shared water source, like an irrigation ditch. Or
        > in cases
        > > like yours where the water flow is seasonally variable.
        > > One my Watermotor website (www.watermotor.net) there is a page
        > > entitled "unconventional waterpower systems" where I discuss a
        > (somewhat
        > > larger) water storage system used to run shop machines, such as
        > woodworking
        > > tools.
        > > Since most shop tools are run intermittently, a water storage
        > tank can
        > > act as a battery that can keep a waterpowered workshop operating
        > during dry
        > > season using a water source with only a fraction of the full flow
        > required
        > > to operate the turbine in real time. This system potentially makes
        > a vastly
        > > greater number of waterpower sites available. Usually all (run of
        > river)
        > > waterpower systems are sized to minimum flow conditions.
        > > This is oriented to direct-drive waterpower where we use the
        > turbine as a
        > > "motor" to drive power tools rather than produce electricity.
        > Direct drive
        > > is much cheaper, far more simple, and converts about 75% of the
        > available
        > > waterpower into usable energy. It is also not susceptible to being
        > damaged
        > > by hard use, as is an electrical system.
        > >
        > >
        > > Your method of turning the flow on and off is interesting as
        > well. I
        > > wonder if there are low-cost electric valves that operate slowly
        > enough not
        > > to cause problems with water hammer (temporary high pressure
        > caused by
        > > suddenly blocking the flow in a pipe by closing a valve)
        > > Perhaps you could use some sort of float valve in the tank that
        > would
        > > automatically open the tank outlet when the water was at a certain
        > height,
        > > rather than an electric switch, but there would be the problem of
        > the water
        > > flowing suddenly down the penstock and encountering the nozzle.
        > Perhaps if
        > > the float valve in the storage tank could somehow open
        > gradually...
        > >
        > > In any case, there are a number of people who could use a system
        > like
        > > yours to great benefit. It would be interesting to get the opinion
        > of some
        > > of the microhydro pros like Harris, Cunningham, ect, on this
        > subject.
        > > Perhaps they have already produced such systems, since nearly all
        > of their
        > > turbines are used to charge batteries.
        > >
        > > Ron Davis,
        > > La Paz, Bolivia
        > >
        > > Ron thanks for the advice. I started out using a regular
        > toilet tank valve with a hard plastic flapper valve. The soft type
        > would start to open to early alowing the water to escape and the
        > tank would not always fill up. I extended the overflow tube with a
        > rubber radiator hose above the tank level. I used two one gallon
        > plastic bottles tied together with wire. I then tied then connected
        > the float to the flapper valve with a small chain. I had to keep the
        > float on a short tether so it would not interfear with the with
        > flapper valve chain . I also had to close off all but a little of
        > the overflow tube because to much air entering and the flapper valve
        > would not work properly. This would all work well except that I
        > would not get much power at the hydro until the water reached the
        > hydro and all the air escaped. This was a very cheap and easy way to
        > get started and I know there are better ways that would be more
        > eficient. So far the sprinkler valve I am using has not failed to
        > work. We just had some major rain storms and iam now able to leave
        > the sprinkler valve opened manual all day and night .I am getting
        > approximatly thirty gal. a minute at the tank and approx. fifteen
        > gal. a min. out at hydro with 3/8 ths. nozzle . I need to put
        > another nozzle in as soon as possible. Thanks!!
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
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        >
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        >
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        >
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        >
        >
        >
        >
        --
        Stuart Fraser
        (from remote server...)
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