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A new homemade water mill

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  • G.Lepage
    Hi. Just finished a new watermill. This one is made with an automatic transmission flywheel. It seems we will have good results with this perfectly balanced
    Message 1 of 14 , Apr 30 8:17 PM
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      Hi. Just finished a new watermill. This one is made with an automatic
      transmission flywheel. It seems we will have good results with this perfectly
      balanced wheel. Very quiet and silent too. At 20 psi when testing, we produce
      2 amps. Can't wait to see what I will have with 60 or 70 psi.
      I have add another pic of a second watermill with a pelton wheel. I made the
      spoons myself on the press. Tricky job . This work is in progress. I will finish it
      soon this week. I'll try both at my remote camp next week.
      http://fr.photos.yahoo.com/bc/toxedo_2000/lst?.dir=/Turbine&.src=ph&.view=t

      Toxedo
    • Dan
      Looks great , What does the water push on? Can you show the other side of the flywheel? Dan ... From: G.Lepage To:
      Message 2 of 14 , May 1, 2003
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        Looks great , What does the water push on? Can you show the other side of
        the flywheel?

        Dan
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "G.Lepage" <toxedo_2000@...>
        To: <microhydro@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 3:17 AM
        Subject: [microhydro] A new homemade water mill


        > Hi. Just finished a new watermill. This one is made with an automatic
        > transmission flywheel. It seems we will have good results with this
        perfectly
        > balanced wheel. Very quiet and silent too. At 20 psi when testing, we
        produce
        > 2 amps. Can't wait to see what I will have with 60 or 70 psi.
        > I have add another pic of a second watermill with a pelton wheel. I made
        the
        > spoons myself on the press. Tricky job . This work is in progress. I will
        finish it
        > soon this week. I'll try both at my remote camp next week.
        >
        http://fr.photos.yahoo.com/bc/toxedo_2000/lst?.dir=/Turbine&.src=ph&.view=t
        >
        > Toxedo
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Does your company feature in the microhydro business directory at
        http://microhydropower.net/directory ? If not, please register free of
        charge and be exposed to the microhydro community world wide!
        >
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        endorse products or support the advertisements in any way.
        >
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        >
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        >
        >
      • G.Lepage
        To Dan and Probesolver Tanks for your comments. About the flywheel, I will post a pic of the inside (the internal side) later today. By the time you ll read
        Message 3 of 14 , May 1, 2003
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          To Dan and Probesolver
          Tanks for your comments. About the flywheel, I will post a pic of the inside (the
          internal side) later today. By the time you'll read this, it will be in my briefcase:
          http://fr.briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/toxedo_2000/lst?&.dir=/Turbine

          And yes, the water pressure feed the wheel at the bottom. I have made many
          tryes with feed at the top, and there is no notable difference. Since it was
          easier to weld the ajustement rigg at the bottom, I choose that option.

          The case of the little pelton wheel was tricky. I made a jig to form the pelton
          wheel with thin round metal pieces. Then I weld the back of each 24 spoons
          to make it stronger. I grinded the fishbone in the inside center of the spoons
          so it will cut the water jet in 2 half, and with the grinder, I carved a "V" with a
          gessed angle at one end of each spoon. It gave a kind of "W". Then I welded
          the spoons on a 4 inch metal wheel. A jig provided the constancy to weld it in
          place, and that is it ! I'am not sure that wheel is perfectly well balanced, but
          there is no vibration at all at 1500 RPM
          I know I could buy a pelton wheel for 100$ or so and escape a big time
          consuming process, but my pleasure is to make it from scratch.
          Toxedo
        • Dan
          Toxedo Is that the inside of the torque converter the way it came off the transmission? Or did you put the fins in yourself? Sorry I have never torn apart a
          Message 4 of 14 , May 1, 2003
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            Toxedo

            Is that the inside of the torque converter the way it came off the
            transmission? Or did you put the fins in yourself?

            Sorry I have never torn apart a transmission, I don't know what the other
            side looks like ?

            Dan
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "G.Lepage" <toxedo_2000@...>
            To: <microhydro@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 2:49 PM
            Subject: [microhydro] Re: A new homemade water mill


            > To Dan and Probesolver
            > Tanks for your comments. About the flywheel, I will post a pic of the
            inside (the
            > internal side) later today. By the time you'll read this, it will be in my
            briefcase:
            > http://fr.briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/toxedo_2000/lst?&.dir=/Turbine
            >
            > And yes, the water pressure feed the wheel at the bottom. I have made many
            > tryes with feed at the top, and there is no notable difference. Since it
            was
            > easier to weld the ajustement rigg at the bottom, I choose that option.
            >
            > The case of the little pelton wheel was tricky. I made a jig to form the
            pelton
            > wheel with thin round metal pieces. Then I weld the back of each 24 spoons
            > to make it stronger. I grinded the fishbone in the inside center of the
            spoons
            > so it will cut the water jet in 2 half, and with the grinder, I carved a
            "V" with a
            > gessed angle at one end of each spoon. It gave a kind of "W". Then I
            welded
            > the spoons on a 4 inch metal wheel. A jig provided the constancy to weld
            it in
            > place, and that is it ! I'am not sure that wheel is perfectly well
            balanced, but
            > there is no vibration at all at 1500 RPM
            > I know I could buy a pelton wheel for 100$ or so and escape a big time
            > consuming process, but my pleasure is to make it from scratch.
            > Toxedo
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Does your company feature in the microhydro business directory at
            http://microhydropower.net/directory ? If not, please register free of
            charge and be exposed to the microhydro community world wide!
            >
            > NOTE: The advertisements in this email are added by Yahoogroups who
            provides us with free email group services. The microhydro-group does not
            endorse products or support the advertisements in any way.
            >
            > More information on micro hydropower at http://microhydropower.net
            >
            > To unsubscribe: send empty message to
            microhydro-unsubscribe@...
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
          • G.Lepage
            If you torn a transmission apart, you ll find that kind of wheel. This one may have 15 years old. I did not have to put fins or anything else. It is a regular
            Message 5 of 14 , May 1, 2003
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              If you torn a transmission apart, you'll find that kind of wheel. This one may
              have 15 years old. I did not have to put fins or anything else. It is a regular
              transmission flywheel you'll find in any car scrapyard. A secret: scrapyards
              trow it away, because they think there is noting to do with such a wheel. But
              before you begin to invade the scrapyards, wait untill I try mine at the real
              place, with the real constant good pressure. I'll tell you the results.
              Toxedo.

              > Is that the inside of the torque converter the way it came off the
              > transmission? Or did you put the fins in yourself?
              >
              > Sorry I have never torn apart a transmission, I don't know what the other
              > side looks like ?
              >
            • garciah
              Lepage: I have visited your Web Page with great interest and I am quite curious about the use of a transmission flywheel for a hydro systems. Also, I would
              Message 6 of 14 , May 1, 2003
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                Lepage:

                I have visited your Web Page with great interest and I am quite curious
                about the use of a transmission flywheel for a hydro systems.

                Also, I would like to know, in detail, how you made the spoons for the
                Pelton turbine.

                Regards

                Nando

                > Message: 2
                > Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 03:17:34 -0000
                > From: "G.Lepage" <toxedo_2000@...>
                > Subject: A new homemade water mill
                >
                > Hi. Just finished a new watermill. This one is made with an automatic
                > transmission flywheel. It seems we will have good results with this
                perfectly
                > balanced wheel. Very quiet and silent too. At 20 psi when testing, we
                produce
                > 2 amps. Can't wait to see what I will have with 60 or 70 psi.
                > I have add another pic of a second watermill with a pelton wheel. I made
                the
                > spoons myself on the press. Tricky job . This work is in progress. I will
                finish it
                > soon this week. I'll try both at my remote camp next week.
                >
                http://fr.photos.yahoo.com/bc/toxedo_2000/lst?.dir=/Turbine&.src=ph&.view=t
                >
                > Toxedo
                >
                >
              • garciah
                Lepage: Can you describe the flow of the water using the transmission wheel arrangement ? From what car was the transmission used ?. Can you supply the
                Message 7 of 14 , May 1, 2003
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                  Lepage:

                  Can you describe the flow of the water using the transmission wheel
                  arrangement ?

                  From what car was the transmission used ?.

                  Can you supply the dimensions for your wheel and the number of spoons in it
                  .

                  Interesting the secondary use for the automatic transmission flywheel
                  coupler.

                  Regards

                  Nando

                  >
                  > Message: 2
                  > Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 03:17:34 -0000
                  > From: "G.Lepage" <toxedo_2000@...>
                  > Subject: A new homemade water mill
                  >
                  > Hi. Just finished a new watermill. This one is made with an automatic
                  > transmission flywheel. It seems we will have good results with this
                  perfectly
                  > balanced wheel. Very quiet and silent too. At 20 psi when testing, we
                  produce
                  > 2 amps. Can't wait to see what I will have with 60 or 70 psi.
                  > I have add another pic of a second watermill with a pelton wheel. I made
                  the
                  > spoons myself on the press. Tricky job . This work is in progress. I will
                  finish it
                  > soon this week. I'll try both at my remote camp next week.
                  >
                  http://fr.photos.yahoo.com/bc/toxedo_2000/lst?.dir=/Turbine&.src=ph&.view=t
                  >
                  > Toxedo
                  >
                • G.Lepage
                  Hi Nando ... It was something to try, and I am trying ... OK. I ll do few digital pics of the proccess, and place it in a folder. I let you know when it is
                  Message 8 of 14 , May 2, 2003
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                    Hi Nando

                    > I have visited your Web Page with great interest and I am quite curious
                    > about the use of a transmission flywheel for a hydro systems.

                    It was something to try, and I'am trying

                    > Also, I would like to know, in detail, how you made the spoons for the
                    > Pelton turbine.
                    OK. I'll do few digital pics of the proccess, and place it in a folder. I let you
                    know when it is done.

                    >From what car was the transmission used ?.
                    I really just don't know, but that does not matter, they are about all the same.

                    >Can you describe the flow of the water using the transmission wheel
                    arrangement ?
                    The water is injected on the circumference fins (like one of the pics shows),
                    and ejected at the center. While doing so, the outgoing water contribute to the
                    speed of the wheel like a skater turning on himself faster and faster as he
                    approach his arms near his body. (I think..)

                    >Can you supply the dimensions for your wheel and the number of spoons in
                    it
                    The flywheel is 10 in. Diameter, I did not count the fins yet.
                    The pelton wheel is 5 in. 3/4 over all. and has 24 spoons.

                    I just finish the pelton turbine arrangement yesterday night, sandblasted and
                    painted it. The only thing missing is the splash guard like the one on the
                    flywheel arrangement. But for the pelton, I tink I will use two metal bowl to
                    envelop the wheel. Let's refine here...!
                    Regards

                    G. Lepage
                  • G.Lepage
                    Here Nando There you go, I took 7 photographies to show you the process to built a pelton wheel. Just go to this address
                    Message 9 of 14 , May 2, 2003
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                      Here Nando
                      There you go, I took 7 photographies to show you the process to built a pelton
                      wheel. Just go to this address
                      http://fr.photos.yahoo.com/bc/toxedo_2000/lst?.dir=/How+to+build+a+Pelton+
                      wheel&.view=t
                      Bye
                      G.Lepage

                      > Also, I would like to know, in detail, how you made the spoons for the
                      > Pelton turbine.
                      >
                      > Regards
                      >
                      > Nando
                    • garciah
                      Lepage: If the water is ejected at the center, then the runner should beplaced not with the shaft horizontal but with it vertical to assist the ejection and
                      Message 10 of 14 , May 3, 2003
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                        Lepage:

                        If the water is ejected at the center, then the runner should beplaced not
                        with the shaft horizontal but with it vertical to assist the ejection and
                        mak sure that the water does not reduce the energy produced.

                        For maximum efficiency the water ejection should be at 1/2 the incoming
                        velocity for maximum power transfer.

                        Interesting concept.


                        Regards

                        Nando


                        _______________________________________________________________________
                        > ________________________________________________________________________
                        >
                        > Message: 3
                        > Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 14:58:54 -0000
                        > From: "G.Lepage" <toxedo_2000@...>
                        > Subject: Re: A new homemade water mill
                        >
                        > Hi Nando
                        >
                        > > I have visited your Web Page with great interest and I am quite curious
                        > > about the use of a transmission flywheel for a hydro systems.
                        >
                        > It was something to try, and I'am trying
                        >
                        > > Also, I would like to know, in detail, how you made the spoons for the
                        > > Pelton turbine.
                        > OK. I'll do few digital pics of the proccess, and place it in a folder. I
                        let you
                        > know when it is done.
                        >
                        > >From what car was the transmission used ?.
                        > I really just don't know, but that does not matter, they are about all the
                        same.
                        >
                        > >Can you describe the flow of the water using the transmission wheel
                        > arrangement ?
                        > The water is injected on the circumference fins (like one of the pics
                        shows),
                        > and ejected at the center. While doing so, the outgoing water contribute
                        to the
                        > speed of the wheel like a skater turning on himself faster and faster as
                        he
                        > approach his arms near his body. (I think..)
                        >
                        > >Can you supply the dimensions for your wheel and the number of spoons in
                        > it
                        > The flywheel is 10 in. Diameter, I did not count the fins yet.
                        > The pelton wheel is 5 in. 3/4 over all. and has 24 spoons.
                        >
                        > I just finish the pelton turbine arrangement yesterday night, sandblasted
                        and
                        > painted it. The only thing missing is the splash guard like the one on the
                        > flywheel arrangement. But for the pelton, I tink I will use two metal bowl
                        to
                        > envelop the wheel. Let's refine here...!
                        > Regards
                        >
                        > G. Lepage
                        >
                        >
                      • Dan
                        Toxedo, Thanx for the detailed pictures, I am look forward to hearing the results. Dan ... From: G.Lepage To:
                        Message 11 of 14 , May 3, 2003
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                          Toxedo,

                          Thanx for the detailed pictures, I am look forward to hearing the results.

                          Dan
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "G.Lepage" <toxedo_2000@...>
                          To: <microhydro@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 2:49 PM
                          Subject: [microhydro] Re: A new homemade water mill


                          > To Dan and Probesolver
                          > Tanks for your comments. About the flywheel, I will post a pic of the
                          inside (the
                          > internal side) later today. By the time you'll read this, it will be in my
                          briefcase:
                          > http://fr.briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/toxedo_2000/lst?&.dir=/Turbine
                          >
                          > And yes, the water pressure feed the wheel at the bottom. I have made many
                          > tryes with feed at the top, and there is no notable difference. Since it
                          was
                          > easier to weld the ajustement rigg at the bottom, I choose that option.
                          >
                          > The case of the little pelton wheel was tricky. I made a jig to form the
                          pelton
                          > wheel with thin round metal pieces. Then I weld the back of each 24 spoons
                          > to make it stronger. I grinded the fishbone in the inside center of the
                          spoons
                          > so it will cut the water jet in 2 half, and with the grinder, I carved a
                          "V" with a
                          > gessed angle at one end of each spoon. It gave a kind of "W". Then I
                          welded
                          > the spoons on a 4 inch metal wheel. A jig provided the constancy to weld
                          it in
                          > place, and that is it ! I'am not sure that wheel is perfectly well
                          balanced, but
                          > there is no vibration at all at 1500 RPM
                          > I know I could buy a pelton wheel for 100$ or so and escape a big time
                          > consuming process, but my pleasure is to make it from scratch.
                          > Toxedo
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Does your company feature in the microhydro business directory at
                          http://microhydropower.net/directory ? If not, please register free of
                          charge and be exposed to the microhydro community world wide!
                          >
                          > NOTE: The advertisements in this email are added by Yahoogroups who
                          provides us with free email group services. The microhydro-group does not
                          endorse products or support the advertisements in any way.
                          >
                          > More information on micro hydropower at http://microhydropower.net
                          >
                          > To unsubscribe: send empty message to
                          microhydro-unsubscribe@...
                          >
                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          >
                          >
                        • G.Lepage
                          ... ____________________________________________________________ Hi Nando, Hi Dan You are probably right. I just come back from my remote camp, and with 58
                          Message 12 of 14 , May 4, 2003
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                            --- In microhydro@yahoogroups.com, "garciah" <garciah@f...> wrote:
                            > Lepage:
                            >
                            > If the water is ejected at the center, then the runner should beplaced not
                            > with the shaft horizontal but with it vertical to assist the ejection and
                            ____________________________________________________________

                            Hi Nando, Hi Dan

                            You are probably right. I just come back from my remote camp, and with 58
                            PSI, 3/8 inch jet, I had only 8 amps with the flywheel system The flywheel was
                            running at 700 t/m and the alternator was doing 1400 t/m (revolution per
                            minute). The bad ejection water is doing someting poor, I will probably do
                            what you suggest Nando. Go with the vertical shaft and horizontal flywheel, to
                            minimize the water vortex at the center.
                            But the good news is the Pelton wheel, who works great. The alternator was
                            running at 2500 RPM. Since the 5 batteries where already loaded, and I could
                            not create a big demand, I can not know for sure. But I saw 17 amps at the
                            beginning, decreasing rapidly to 7-8 amps, then to 5-6.
                            I filmed the process. I wil post it one day on my web site.
                            Regards
                            Toxedo
                          • Dan
                            Toxedo, It is great that you got some power. I love the idea of using available scrap to make a turbine. Could you turn what you have on it s side to see if
                            Message 13 of 14 , May 4, 2003
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                              Toxedo,

                              It is great that you got some power. I love the idea of using available
                              scrap to make a turbine. Could you turn what you have on it's side to see
                              if Nando's idea would help?

                              Dan
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "G.Lepage" <toxedo_2000@...>
                              To: <microhydro@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2003 10:29 PM
                              Subject: [microhydro] Re: A new homemade water mill


                              > --- In microhydro@yahoogroups.com, "garciah" <garciah@f...> wrote:
                              > > Lepage:
                              > >
                              > > If the water is ejected at the center, then the runner should beplaced
                              not
                              > > with the shaft horizontal but with it vertical to assist the ejection
                              and
                              > ____________________________________________________________
                              >
                              > Hi Nando, Hi Dan
                              >
                              > You are probably right. I just come back from my remote camp, and with 58
                              > PSI, 3/8 inch jet, I had only 8 amps with the flywheel system The flywheel
                              was
                              > running at 700 t/m and the alternator was doing 1400 t/m (revolution per
                              > minute). The bad ejection water is doing someting poor, I will probably do
                              > what you suggest Nando. Go with the vertical shaft and horizontal
                              flywheel, to
                              > minimize the water vortex at the center.
                              > But the good news is the Pelton wheel, who works great. The alternator was
                              > running at 2500 RPM. Since the 5 batteries where already loaded, and I
                              could
                              > not create a big demand, I can not know for sure. But I saw 17 amps at the
                              > beginning, decreasing rapidly to 7-8 amps, then to 5-6.
                              > I filmed the process. I wil post it one day on my web site.
                              > Regards
                              > Toxedo
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Does your company feature in the microhydro business directory at
                              http://microhydropower.net/directory ? If not, please register free of
                              charge and be exposed to the microhydro community world wide!
                              >
                              > NOTE: The advertisements in this email are added by Yahoogroups who
                              provides us with free email group services. The microhydro-group does not
                              endorse products or support the advertisements in any way.
                              >
                              > More information on micro hydropower at http://microhydropower.net
                              >
                              > To unsubscribe: send empty message to
                              microhydro-unsubscribe@...
                              >
                              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                              >
                              >
                            • garciah
                              Toxedo: The 58 PSI and 0.375 Nozzle has 753 shaft watts and for an alternator (0.5 efficiency) you may get 376 electrical watts capability. Still, you do not
                              Message 14 of 14 , May 5, 2003
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                                Toxedo:

                                The 58 PSI and 0.375 Nozzle has 753 shaft watts and for an alternator (0.5
                                efficiency) you may get 376 electrical watts capability.

                                Still, you do not tell us what is the output voltage to know what is the
                                maximum power being generated by the alternator.

                                If the battery is at 14.2 volts then the maximum current would be 376/14.2 =
                                26.5 amps, for this type of power from a car alternator, the alternator
                                should be running at around 3400 to 4000 RPM.

                                Try to take a low voltage load ( heater) to fully test the generator, if you
                                do not know how to test it let me know via direct email.

                                Please tell us about the 5 batteries, are they in parallel or what ; and
                                what are their capabilities ?.

                                Thinking a bit about the transmission "flywheel", I see that the design in a
                                car calls for fast fluid return to the transmission coupler which could
                                reduce the efficiency of the flywheel as a runner because for best power
                                transfer the flywheel water exit should be not greater than 50 % of the
                                water incoming velocity, or maybe you may have found another type of
                                "FANTASTIC" runner.

                                Regards

                                Nando





                                ________________________________________________________________________
                                > ________________________________________________________________________
                                >
                                > Message: 4
                                > Date: Sun, 04 May 2003 22:29:22 -0000
                                > From: "G.Lepage" <toxedo_2000@...>
                                > Subject: Re: A new homemade water mill
                                >
                                > --- In microhydro@yahoogroups.com, "garciah" <garciah@f...> wrote:
                                > > Lepage:
                                > >
                                > > If the water is ejected at the center, then the runner should beplaced
                                not
                                > > with the shaft horizontal but with it vertical to assist the ejection
                                and
                                > ____________________________________________________________
                                >
                                > Hi Nando, Hi Dan
                                >
                                > You are probably right. I just come back from my remote camp, and with 58
                                > PSI, 3/8 inch jet, I had only 8 amps with the flywheel system The flywheel
                                was
                                > running at 700 t/m and the alternator was doing 1400 t/m (revolution per
                                > minute). The bad ejection water is doing someting poor, I will probably do
                                > what you suggest Nando. Go with the vertical shaft and horizontal
                                flywheel, to
                                > minimize the water vortex at the center.
                                > But the good news is the Pelton wheel, who works great. The alternator was
                                > running at 2500 RPM. Since the 5 batteries where already loaded, and I
                                could
                                > not create a big demand, I can not know for sure. But I saw 17 amps at the
                                > beginning, decreasing rapidly to 7-8 amps, then to 5-6.
                                > I filmed the process. I wil post it one day on my web site.
                                > Regards
                                > Toxedo
                                >
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