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Induction Generators Controls

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  • Roberto Kopper
    Hello everyone. I am bringing back to action old Pelton wheels which operated some 15 years ago and they are very easy to bring back to life. My intention is
    Message 1 of 4 , Feb 9, 2002
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      Hello everyone.
      I am bringing back to action old Pelton wheels which operated some 15 years
      ago and they are very easy to bring back to life. My intention is to
      connect the turbine to an induction motor and operate it hooked to the grid.

      I need a control system simple enough to shut down the valve in the event of
      a power failure or drop in water pressure. Probably the control system will
      operate on a battery voltage.

      Somebody has an idea where can I get this type of controls? What is the
      cost?

      Thanks
      Roberto




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • John Bertl
      ... The system you most likely are thinking about is a 12 volt battery powering a 12 volt motor which drives a hydraulic pump. With lost of power, a switch is
      Message 2 of 4 , Feb 11, 2002
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        >From: Roberto Kopper <robertok@...>
        >Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002
        >
        >Hello everyone.
        >I am bringing back to action old Pelton wheels
        >which operated some 15 years ago and they are
        >very easy to bring back to life. My intention
        >is to connect the turbine to an induction motor
        >and operate it hooked to the grid.
        >
        >I need a control system simple enough to shut
        >down the valve in the event of a power failure
        >or drop in water pressure. Probably the control
        >system will operate on a battery voltage.
        >
        >Somebody has an idea where can I get this type
        >of controls? What is the cost?
        >
        >Thanks
        >Roberto
        >

        The system you most likely are thinking about is a 12 volt battery powering
        a 12 volt motor which drives a hydraulic pump. With lost of power, a switch
        is engaged operating the hydraulic pump which in turn powers a double acting
        piston closing the butterfly valve or powering a gear motor closing the
        needle or gate valve. (Needle or gate valves require more than a 90 degree
        turn to open or close.) When power is restored, the controls can
        automatically open the valve allowing the water to flow and controls can
        automatically connect the induction generator to the grid when it reaches
        synchronous speed. I have such a system on an induction generator and it
        has operated the hydro unit for over twelve years.

        The maintenance has been adding water to the battery monthly as it is always
        hooked up to a battery charger set on trickle charge. The water still boils
        as I am overcharging it but that's better than not enough charge and the
        battery becomes dead.) The battery has been replaced four times. (A cheap
        automotive battery is used - $35 new.) I have replaced the 12 volt switch
        three times. (An automotive starter switch is used - $40 new.) I have
        replaced the battery charger once - it shorted out in a flood - $60) The 12
        volt motor with direct drive pump is about $300. A four way hydraulic valve
        is about $100. Still to cost is the instrumentation, tubing, wiring and
        misc. The total cost should not exceed $1,200 and will be less the more you
        shop for available used components.

        For another hydro site I am using compressed air and have a 2 horsepower air
        compressor in the powerhouse. Compressed air closes the water valves when
        any safety shutdown instrument indicates to do so. However, this hydro
        system has to be manually restarted and put on the grid.

        On this facility, I am in the process of installing a very small air
        compressor driven off the turbine shaft. It will run all the time with a
        pressure release switch on the discharge when the tank is up to pressure.
        To me the air system is safer because I have a low air pressure shutdown
        safety switch. When air pressure drops below 40 psi the water valves are
        closed shutting down the turbine, even if all other systems are green. This
        is not the case when my battery becomes discharged on my other hydro unit.
        And the battery does become discharged for a varity of reasons especially
        near the end of the battery's life. When this happens, the turbine and
        generator do not shutdown as they should but they over speed instead.
        Fortunately, induction motors can safely overspeed and I've not had a
        problem when this has occurred.

        Dan Young, a member of this group, has seen and worked on both sites and I
        believe he can easily draft out a design and parts list for you.

        _________________________________________________________________
        Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
      • Roberto Kopper
        Thanks for all the details and for sharing your experience. I had operating another small hydro 25 kw, for 2.5 years with a control similar to yours on the 12V
        Message 3 of 4 , Feb 11, 2002
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          Thanks for all the details and for sharing your experience.

          I had operating another small hydro 25 kw, for 2.5 years with a control
          similar to yours on the 12V system with a wiper motor turning the screw on
          the butterfly valve 90 degrees. It worked very well.

          Question: Did you assemble the whole thing together? Do I have to do it,
          or can I get a pre assemble, only mount package??

          How about, reverse current relays?
          Low water pressure switch in case there is low flow of water to the turbine?

          Thanks again
          Roberto



          -----Mensaje original-----
          De: John Bertl [mailto:jbertl@...]
          Enviado el: Lunes, 11 de Febrero de 2002 08:18 a.m.
          Para: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
          Asunto: [microhydro] Induction Generators Controls

          >From: Roberto Kopper <robertok@...>
          >Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002
          >
          >Hello everyone.
          >I am bringing back to action old Pelton wheels
          >which operated some 15 years ago and they are
          >very easy to bring back to life. My intention
          >is to connect the turbine to an induction motor
          >and operate it hooked to the grid.
          >
          >I need a control system simple enough to shut
          >down the valve in the event of a power failure
          >or drop in water pressure. Probably the control
          >system will operate on a battery voltage.
          >
          >Somebody has an idea where can I get this type
          >of controls? What is the cost?
          >
          >Thanks
          >Roberto
          >

          The system you most likely are thinking about is a 12 volt battery powering
          a 12 volt motor which drives a hydraulic pump. With lost of power, a switch
          is engaged operating the hydraulic pump which in turn powers a double acting
          piston closing the butterfly valve or powering a gear motor closing the
          needle or gate valve. (Needle or gate valves require more than a 90 degree
          turn to open or close.) When power is restored, the controls can
          automatically open the valve allowing the water to flow and controls can
          automatically connect the induction generator to the grid when it reaches
          synchronous speed. I have such a system on an induction generator and it
          has operated the hydro unit for over twelve years.

          The maintenance has been adding water to the battery monthly as it is always
          hooked up to a battery charger set on trickle charge. The water still boils
          as I am overcharging it but that's better than not enough charge and the
          battery becomes dead.) The battery has been replaced four times. (A cheap
          automotive battery is used - $35 new.) I have replaced the 12 volt switch
          three times. (An automotive starter switch is used - $40 new.) I have
          replaced the battery charger once - it shorted out in a flood - $60) The 12
          volt motor with direct drive pump is about $300. A four way hydraulic valve
          is about $100. Still to cost is the instrumentation, tubing, wiring and
          misc. The total cost should not exceed $1,200 and will be less the more you
          shop for available used components.

          For another hydro site I am using compressed air and have a 2 horsepower air
          compressor in the powerhouse. Compressed air closes the water valves when
          any safety shutdown instrument indicates to do so. However, this hydro
          system has to be manually restarted and put on the grid.

          On this facility, I am in the process of installing a very small air
          compressor driven off the turbine shaft. It will run all the time with a
          pressure release switch on the discharge when the tank is up to pressure.
          To me the air system is safer because I have a low air pressure shutdown
          safety switch. When air pressure drops below 40 psi the water valves are
          closed shutting down the turbine, even if all other systems are green. This
          is not the case when my battery becomes discharged on my other hydro unit.
          And the battery does become discharged for a varity of reasons especially
          near the end of the battery's life. When this happens, the turbine and
          generator do not shutdown as they should but they over speed instead.
          Fortunately, induction motors can safely overspeed and I've not had a
          problem when this has occurred.

          Dan Young, a member of this group, has seen and worked on both sites and I
          believe he can easily draft out a design and parts list for you.

          _________________________________________________________________
          Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com



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        • hterbush@aol.com
          In a message dated 2/12/02 12:46:50 AM Eastern Standard Time, robertok@racsa.co.cr writes: We have recently built a PLC biased control system for
          Message 4 of 4 , Feb 12, 2002
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            In a message dated 2/12/02 12:46:50 AM Eastern Standard Time,
            robertok@... writes:

            << Roberto >>
            We have recently built a PLC biased control system for a Pelton turbine. This
            control system could work on any type turbine. It has all the necessary
            components to SAFELY run the system. It monitors pond level, speed, current,
            frequency, voltage, phases, displays volts, amps, kW, kWh, pf, speed, and
            other electrical and mechanical parameters. It auto starts, follows pond,
            stops on fault, and calls out the fault. Will re start on clearing of the
            fault. The PLC gives you the ability to make program modifications, even
            remotely, by phone with a modem, and remote computer. I can also control, and
            monitor remotely. I offer this system with the crossflow and propeller
            turbines I build. I also work with Dan Youngs on this type thing. Contact
            either of us if we can help. Harry

            <A HREF="http://members.aol.com:/hterbush/homepage/index.htm">Click here:
            Windsor Machinery Co.</A>
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