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Re: [microhydro] Ultra low head projects

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  • sdgregory@althydrosolutions.com
    dear alok, there are few companies that do these water current turbines as they are called. There are some that do the large units that produce a few hundred
    Message 1 of 9 , Jul 2, 2012
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      dear alok,
      there are few companies that do these water current turbines as they
      are called.
      There are some that do the large units that produce a few hundred
      kilowatts then there are those who do the units that produce under one
      kilowatt.
      there is not much on sale in between
      check on google for these water current turbines and see the size
      that interests you.
      of prime importance is the speed in meters per second
      steve
      alternative hydro solutions ltd
       
      On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 21:59:29 0530, alok jindal <alokjindal@...> wrote:

        Dear Friends,

      I am looking for ultra low head hydro turbine concepts which can be
      installed in flowing river. Please let me know if you have any idea about
      such existing projects from where some knowledge can be developed.

      Thanks

      --
      ALOK JINDAL

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



       
    • Nando
      Alok: What you are looking is in-river-turbines that are using the water velocity to move the propeller or like structure . There are several companies that
      Message 2 of 9 , Jul 3, 2012
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        Alok:

        What you are looking is in-river-turbines that are using the water velocity to move the propeller or like structure .

        There are several companies that make them or at least have experimented with them , there is one in Colombia, South America being tested to produce around 400- 800 watts .

        The principle is that there is a propeller on a barge with a RPM apparatus to increase the RPM for a generator , the propeller has around 45 RPM, one needs to remember that the river flows with variable velocity therefore this RPM will be variable as well.

        The main problem is that the group is just experimenting and shows that they are not doing the proper steps to attain the highest possible energy harvesting

        Included you will find an article that may assist you , also see : http://www.throptonenergy.co.uk/ ; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3L5BaMyIEA

        Unhappily you do not inform what range of power you are looking for and that stop many for replying to your inquire.


        Nando

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: alok jindal
        To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 11:29
        Subject: [microhydro] Ultra low head projects



        Dear Friends,

        I am looking for ultra low head hydro turbine concepts which can be
        installed in flowing river. Please let me know if you have any idea about
        such existing projects from where some knowledge can be developed.

        Thanks

        --
        ALOK JINDAL

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • mengel@frontiernet.net
        I was researching run-of-the-river hydro a while ago and found this company http://www.absak.com/ . I don t really know anything about them but they look
        Message 3 of 9 , Jul 3, 2012
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          I was researching "run-of-the-river" hydro a while ago and found this company http://www.absak.com/ . I don't really know anything about them but they look good. 5-10KW in-stream units, lots of option and lots of info on their website.--mike
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Nando <nando37@...>
          To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
          Cc: alokjindal@...
          Sent: Tue, 03 Jul 2012 15:05:19 -0000 (UTC)
          Subject: Re: [microhydro] Ultra low head projects

          Alok:

          What you are looking is in-river-turbines that are using the water velocity to move the propeller or like structure .

          There are several companies that make them or at least have experimented with them , there is one in Colombia, South America being tested to produce around 400- 800 watts .

          The principle is that there is a propeller on a barge with a RPM apparatus to increase the RPM for a generator , the propeller has around 45 RPM, one needs to remember that the river flows with variable velocity therefore this RPM will be variable as well.

          The main problem is that the group is just experimenting and shows that they are not doing the proper steps to attain the highest possible energy harvesting

          Included you will find an article that may assist you , also see : http://www.throptonenergy.co.uk/ ; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3L5BaMyIEA

          Unhappily you do not inform what range of power you are looking for and that stop many for replying to your inquire.


          Nando

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: alok jindal
          To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 11:29
          Subject: [microhydro] Ultra low head projects



          Dear Friends,

          I am looking for ultra low head hydro turbine concepts which can be
          installed in flowing river. Please let me know if you have any idea about
          such existing projects from where some knowledge can be developed.

          Thanks

          --
          ALOK JINDAL

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • alok jindal
          Dear Nando, Thank you for the inputs. Actually I am looking for the capacity ranging anything from 100 w to 10 kW. Regards Alok ... -- ALOK JINDAL [Non-text
          Message 4 of 9 , Jul 4, 2012
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            Dear Nando,

            Thank you for the inputs. Actually I am looking for the capacity ranging
            anything from 100 w to 10 kW.

            Regards

            Alok

            On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 8:35 PM, Nando <nando37@...> wrote:

            > **
            > Alok:
            >
            > What you are looking is in-river-turbines that are using the water
            > velocity to move the propeller or like structure .
            >
            > There are several companies that make them or at least have experimented
            > with them , there is one in Colombia, South America being tested to produce
            > around 400- 800 watts .
            >
            > The principle is that there is a propeller on a barge with a RPM apparatus
            > to increase the RPM for a generator , the propeller has around 45 RPM, one
            > needs to remember that the river flows with variable velocity therefore
            > this RPM will be variable as well.
            >
            > The main problem is that the group is just experimenting and shows that
            > they are not doing the proper steps to attain the highest possible energy
            > harvesting
            >
            > Included you will find an article that may assist you , also see :
            > http://www.throptonenergy.co.uk/ ;
            > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3L5BaMyIEA
            >
            > Unhappily you do not inform what range of power you are looking for and
            > that stop many for replying to your inquire.
            >
            >
            > Nando
            >
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > *From:* alok jindal <alokjindal@...>
            > *To:* microhydro@yahoogroups.com
            > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 27, 2012 11:29
            > *Subject:* [microhydro] Ultra low head projects
            >
            >
            >
            > Dear Friends,
            >
            >
            > I am looking for ultra low head hydro turbine concepts which can be
            > installed in flowing river. Please let me know if you have any idea about
            > such existing projects from where some knowledge can be developed.
            >
            > Thanks
            >
            > --
            > ALOK JINDAL
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >


            --
            ALOK JINDAL


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Burton Hamner
            Hello Alok, and of course Nando. We at Hydrovolts in Seattle have been making and demonstrating hydrokinetic - zero head - turbines for two years now.
            Message 5 of 9 , Jul 5, 2012
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              Hello Alok, and of course Nando.

              We at Hydrovolts in Seattle have been making and demonstrating hydrokinetic - zero head - turbines for two years now.
              www.hydrovolts.com, and www.youtube.com/hydrovolts

              Our site has extensive info about this tech, not just our tech.  

              Key point is that the power in zero head is hydrokinetic, just like wind is "aerokinetic" so power increases / decreases with CUBE of velocity.  So you really need fast flow to make any real power.  And capturing a lot of flow in zero head is hard.  Thus our turbines are horizontal cross axis so best fit to typical flows.  BUT:

              Don't try this in rivers unless you are desperate.  Rivers are :  Unpredictable, full of debris, often highly regulated, often have stakeholders who are worried about everything in the world and will interfere with you, and prone to disastrous floods that sweep all away.  At least a dozen firms have tried to make it work in rivers and all have failed or remain garage operations.  I wish the best to Thropton and New Energy et al but they are pushing a big rock up hill.

              The only way we know to make a river turbine work is to have a barge with deep draft / belly in the river, anchored heavily, to be a breakwater for debris; then to hang the turbines downstream of it, then find way to transmit power to shore, maybe power cable up in air or wrapped around big chain on river bed (not good).  Also, only a cross axis horizontal design has feasibility, any axial flow propeller big enough to make kW power, under load will simply wrap itself around its own shaft and torque itself to destruction.  Maybe  counter-rotating props would work, but now  we are in heavy engineering and cost, and not feasible for low power output.

              We at Hydrovolts are focused on big irrigation and water supply canals,  found around the world, where there are no floods, little debris, no enviro issues, and owned by governments.  That's a biz model that is scalable.  Otherwise you have a river project where you  need philanthropy to subsidize it, and then a log will whack your turbine and it's over.

              Nando has repeatedly said that this forum is for "traditional" micro hydro, which is simply different physics and construction etc from hydrokinetic.  He is of course correct.  I hope our website will inform and encourage anyone with interest in hydrokinetic.  

              Burt Hamner, CEO,  Hydrovolts Inc.


              ________________________________
              From: alok jindal <alokjindal@...>
              To: Nando <nando37@...>
              Cc: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wednesday, July 4, 2012 9:51 PM
              Subject: Re: [microhydro] Ultra low head projects


               
              Dear Nando,

              Thank you for the inputs. Actually I am looking for the capacity ranging
              anything from 100 w to 10 kW.

              Regards

              Alok

              On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 8:35 PM, Nando <nando37@...> wrote:

              > **
              > Alok:
              >
              > What you are looking is in-river-turbines that are using the water
              > velocity to move the propeller or like structure .
              >
              > There are several companies that make them or at least have experimented
              > with them , there is one in Colombia, South America being tested to produce
              > around 400- 800 watts .
              >
              > The principle is that there is a propeller on a barge with a RPM apparatus
              > to increase the RPM for a generator , the propeller has around 45 RPM, one
              > needs to remember that the river flows with variable velocity therefore
              > this RPM will be variable as well.
              >
              > The main problem is that the group is just experimenting and shows that
              > they are not doing the proper steps to attain the highest possible energy
              > harvesting
              >
              > Included you will find an article that may assist you , also see :
              > http://www.throptonenergy.co.uk/ ;
              > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3L5BaMyIEA
              >
              > Unhappily you do not inform what range of power you are looking for and
              > that stop many for replying to your inquire.
              >
              >
              > Nando
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > *From:* alok jindal <alokjindal@...>
              > *To:* microhydro@yahoogroups.com
              > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 27, 2012 11:29
              > *Subject:* [microhydro] Ultra low head projects
              >
              >
              >
              > Dear Friends,
              >
              >
              > I am looking for ultra low head hydro turbine concepts which can be
              > installed in flowing river. Please let me know if you have any idea about
              > such existing projects from where some knowledge can be developed.
              >
              > Thanks
              >
              > --
              > ALOK JINDAL
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >

              --
              ALOK JINDAL

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Nando
              In river turbines do require a different point of view and the analysis should be done to cover several points that are not normally cover when using the water
              Message 6 of 9 , Jul 5, 2012
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                In river turbines do require a different point of view and the analysis should be done to cover several points that are not normally cover when using the water sources with dynamic pressures I.E = penstock included.

                In river generation of energy depend on the wart velocity and the mass of water available to be used to harvest the energy and the first step in this process is the determination to define how the structure is going to behave when debris arrive to the turbine, therefore that is the first thing to solve .

                Debris will cling to any surface that has a surface that allows the debris to cling to it and stay there affecting the operation of the turbine.
                So the analysis has to include the solution for the debris to pass along without damaging or affecting the operation of the turbine, so the structure has to be different from the structures used to harvest energy from the wind velocity.

                For this reason alone, in this case, propellers which are a logical solution needs to have a structure to force the debris down river without clinging on the harvesting structure and a logical one is one like a screw with a sharp tip and increment toward down river -- this propeller will not have surfaces that allow the debris to cling to it, and the debris will slide along the edge of the blade to the rear part and letting the debris go down river.

                Power harvesting is the second most important point , and in this case is the decision of how to attain the highest possible harvesting capability which from my point of view does not mean to have a single set of blades ,

                In this case the ideal setup would be at least 3 sets of blades separated by at least 2 or 3 times the blades diameter and with the possibility of even having more blades in a common driving shaft pumping water under pressure to move a Turgo turbine to attain an easy way of generating power -- the pressurized pipe to have an air chamber to be able to have a stable and constant nozzle jet
                pressure .

                Ideally I would use two shafts with blades rotating in opposite direction to nullify the rotating effects of a single set of blades.

                In the past many years ago we had plans to make a pontoon to have a long shaft with at least 6 sets of blades but due to somebody stealing a small one made to determine operating parameters we saw that had to have somebody full time to protect the barge from being stolen, we decided not to proceed with the project .

                Nando


                ----- Original Message -----
                From: alok jindal
                To: Nando
                Cc: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2012 11:21
                Subject: Re: [microhydro] Ultra low head projects



                Dear Nando,

                Thank you for the inputs. Actually I am looking for the capacity ranging
                anything from 100 w to 10 kW.

                Regards

                Alok

                On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 8:35 PM, Nando <nando37@...> wrote:

                > **
                > Alok:
                >
                > What you are looking is in-river-turbines that are using the water
                > velocity to move the propeller or like structure .
                >
                > There are several companies that make them or at least have experimented
                > with them , there is one in Colombia, South America being tested to produce
                > around 400- 800 watts .
                >
                > The principle is that there is a propeller on a barge with a RPM apparatus
                > to increase the RPM for a generator , the propeller has around 45 RPM, one
                > needs to remember that the river flows with variable velocity therefore
                > this RPM will be variable as well.
                >
                > The main problem is that the group is just experimenting and shows that
                > they are not doing the proper steps to attain the highest possible energy
                > harvesting
                >
                > Included you will find an article that may assist you , also see :
                > http://www.throptonenergy.co.uk/ ;
                > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3L5BaMyIEA
                >
                > Unhappily you do not inform what range of power you are looking for and
                > that stop many for replying to your inquire.
                >
                >
                > Nando
                >
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > *From:* alok jindal <alokjindal@...>
                > *To:* microhydro@yahoogroups.com
                > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 27, 2012 11:29
                > *Subject:* [microhydro] Ultra low head projects
                >
                >
                >
                > Dear Friends,
                >
                >
                > I am looking for ultra low head hydro turbine concepts which can be
                > installed in flowing river. Please let me know if you have any idea about
                > such existing projects from where some knowledge can be developed.
                >
                > Thanks
                >
                > --
                > ALOK JINDAL
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >

                --
                ALOK JINDAL

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Anjar
                I have been creating and installing a low head turbine (1 meter capacity of 500 waat and 1.5 meter capacity of 20 kw). I use a turbine propeller type runner
                Message 7 of 9 , Jul 10, 2012
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                  I have been creating and installing a low head turbine (1 meter capacity of 500 waat and 1.5 meter capacity of 20 kw). I use a turbine propeller type runner diameter of 300 mm by using PMG 500 rpm. while for a capacity of 20 kw turbine type propeller I used the runner diameter 1000mm with 150 rpm rotation. existing problems of flow turbulence on the inlet flow

                  --- In microhydro@yahoogroups.com, "Nando" <nando37@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > In river turbines do require a different point of view and the analysis should be done to cover several points that are not normally cover when using the water sources with dynamic pressures I.E = penstock included.
                  >
                  > In river generation of energy depend on the wart velocity and the mass of water available to be used to harvest the energy and the first step in this process is the determination to define how the structure is going to behave when debris arrive to the turbine, therefore that is the first thing to solve .
                  >
                  > Debris will cling to any surface that has a surface that allows the debris to cling to it and stay there affecting the operation of the turbine.
                  > So the analysis has to include the solution for the debris to pass along without damaging or affecting the operation of the turbine, so the structure has to be different from the structures used to harvest energy from the wind velocity.
                  >
                  > For this reason alone, in this case, propellers which are a logical solution needs to have a structure to force the debris down river without clinging on the harvesting structure and a logical one is one like a screw with a sharp tip and increment toward down river -- this propeller will not have surfaces that allow the debris to cling to it, and the debris will slide along the edge of the blade to the rear part and letting the debris go down river.
                  >
                  > Power harvesting is the second most important point , and in this case is the decision of how to attain the highest possible harvesting capability which from my point of view does not mean to have a single set of blades ,
                  >
                  > In this case the ideal setup would be at least 3 sets of blades separated by at least 2 or 3 times the blades diameter and with the possibility of even having more blades in a common driving shaft pumping water under pressure to move a Turgo turbine to attain an easy way of generating power -- the pressurized pipe to have an air chamber to be able to have a stable and constant nozzle jet
                  > pressure .
                  >
                  > Ideally I would use two shafts with blades rotating in opposite direction to nullify the rotating effects of a single set of blades.
                  >
                  > In the past many years ago we had plans to make a pontoon to have a long shaft with at least 6 sets of blades but due to somebody stealing a small one made to determine operating parameters we saw that had to have somebody full time to protect the barge from being stolen, we decided not to proceed with the project .
                  >
                  > Nando
                  >
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: alok jindal
                  > To: Nando
                  > Cc: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2012 11:21
                  > Subject: Re: [microhydro] Ultra low head projects
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Dear Nando,
                  >
                  > Thank you for the inputs. Actually I am looking for the capacity ranging
                  > anything from 100 w to 10 kW.
                  >
                  > Regards
                  >
                  > Alok
                  >
                  > On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 8:35 PM, Nando <nando37@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > **
                  > > Alok:
                  > >
                  > > What you are looking is in-river-turbines that are using the water
                  > > velocity to move the propeller or like structure .
                  > >
                  > > There are several companies that make them or at least have experimented
                  > > with them , there is one in Colombia, South America being tested to produce
                  > > around 400- 800 watts .
                  > >
                  > > The principle is that there is a propeller on a barge with a RPM apparatus
                  > > to increase the RPM for a generator , the propeller has around 45 RPM, one
                  > > needs to remember that the river flows with variable velocity therefore
                  > > this RPM will be variable as well.
                  > >
                  > > The main problem is that the group is just experimenting and shows that
                  > > they are not doing the proper steps to attain the highest possible energy
                  > > harvesting
                  > >
                  > > Included you will find an article that may assist you , also see :
                  > > http://www.throptonenergy.co.uk/ ;
                  > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3L5BaMyIEA
                  > >
                  > > Unhappily you do not inform what range of power you are looking for and
                  > > that stop many for replying to your inquire.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Nando
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > *From:* alok jindal <alokjindal@...>
                  > > *To:* microhydro@yahoogroups.com
                  > > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 27, 2012 11:29
                  > > *Subject:* [microhydro] Ultra low head projects
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Dear Friends,
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > I am looking for ultra low head hydro turbine concepts which can be
                  > > installed in flowing river. Please let me know if you have any idea about
                  > > such existing projects from where some knowledge can be developed.
                  > >
                  > > Thanks
                  > >
                  > > --
                  > > ALOK JINDAL
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  > --
                  > ALOK JINDAL
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
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