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oil film bearing

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  • shababwahid
    dear all we have chinese hydro turbines in operation equipped with oese oil film bearing(journal bearing with white metal inside and cooled with oil) these
    Message 1 of 9 , Jun 1, 2012
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      dear all

      we have chinese hydro turbines in operation equipped with oese oil film bearing(journal bearing with white metal inside and cooled with oil)

      these bearings are hard to maintain during silty season.

      can we replace with rolling element bearings?

      regards

      shabab

      it a 1 MW francis unit with one radial and one thrust bearing.the thrust pads wear out fast and the water cooling the oil clogs the filter)
    • David Murray
      Good evening group;This response is off the cuff as i have not gone to my machinerys handbook ( admitedely edition 14 but appropriate to this question) to
      Message 2 of 9 , Jun 1, 2012
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        Good evening group;This response is off the cuff as i have not gone to my machinerys' handbook ( admitedely edition 14 but appropriate to this question) to count the number babbit bearing variations and to describe their application differences. If the Chineese are indeed using white metal, which is zinc and aluminium, you will indeed have a problem. Babbit on the other hand is a very appropriate bearing material in hydo generating scenarios. In fact most/all large and medium sized hydro installations in the province of Ontariio in Canada run on babbit. This is no accident or quirk of design, it just works better than anything else going. The principal supplier of, babbit journals to hydo electric sites in North America is "Canadian Babbit Bearing" in Brantford Ontario, Canada. Call them email them they are aproachable and helpful but most of all they know hydro and what they are doing.Cheers, David Murray , Eureka Micro Hydro Devices, Mount Hope Ontario,Canada,905-679-6948.
        To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
        From: shababwahid@...
        Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2012 16:49:48 +0000
        Subject: [microhydro] oil film bearing


























        dear all



        we have chinese hydro turbines in operation equipped with oese oil film bearing(journal bearing with white metal inside and cooled with oil)



        these bearings are hard to maintain during silty season.



        can we replace with rolling element bearings?



        regards



        shabab



        it a 1 MW francis unit with one radial and one thrust bearing.the thrust pads wear out fast and the water cooling the oil clogs the filter)


















        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • jrkess98@aol.com
        Two little problems in such a change. 1. Journal bearings are split, whereas MOST rolling-element bearings are rings, pressed onto a shaft. 2. Rolling element
        Message 3 of 9 , Jun 1, 2012
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          Two little problems in such a change.
          1. Journal bearings are split, whereas MOST rolling-element bearings are
          rings, pressed onto a shaft.
          2. Rolling element bearings are much larger in outside diameter, requiring
          an entirely different housing. At least you would be able to eliminate the
          oil supply, but you are looking at some serious re-engineering.
          Yes, there ARE split roller bearings, but they start at rather large sizes,
          and still will require major re-machining of the old journal-bearing
          housings, if they can be re-used at all.

          You describe oil contamination (contact with the stream water?). If that
          is true, perhaps better sealing devices would help. Normally the higher
          oil pressure leaks a bit OUTWARD, and the stream cannot contaminate it. If
          stream pressure is higher than oil pressure of course you will have
          contamination. In which case it is necessary to increase oil pressure.
          Good luck.
          John Kessler
          Ft. Lauderdale


          In a message dated 6/1/2012 5:49:59 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
          shababwahid@... writes:




          dear all

          we have chinese hydro turbines in operation equipped with oese oil film
          bearing(journal bearing with white metal inside and cooled with oil)

          these bearings are hard to maintain during silty season.

          can we replace with rolling element bearings?

          regards

          shabab

          it a 1 MW francis unit with one radial and one thrust bearing.the thrust
          pads wear out fast and the water cooling the oil clogs the filter)






          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • saeid bagheri
          dear sir   pls send me shaft shop drawings & technical specification such as existing shaft material,  loadings, speeds, shaft runout, bearins architectural
          Message 4 of 9 , Jun 1, 2012
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            dear sir
             
            pls send me shaft shop drawings & technical specification such as existing shaft material,  loadings, speeds, shaft runout, bearins architectural configuration on shaft.
             
            br
            bagheri
            --- On Fri, 6/1/12, shababwahid <shababwahid@...> wrote:


            From: shababwahid <shababwahid@...>
            Subject: [microhydro] oil film bearing
            To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Friday, June 1, 2012, 9:49 AM



             



            dear all

            we have chinese hydro turbines in operation equipped with oese oil film bearing(journal bearing with white metal inside and cooled with oil)

            these bearings are hard to maintain during silty season.

            can we replace with rolling element bearings?

            regards

            shabab

            it a 1 MW francis unit with one radial and one thrust bearing.the thrust pads wear out fast and the water cooling the oil clogs the filter)








            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Cameron MacLeod
            Shabab - Bearings like you describe have been used on turbines built in the US for many years with good success. Sometimes they can be replaced with
            Message 5 of 9 , Jun 2, 2012
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              Shabab - Bearings like you describe have been used on turbines built in the US for many years with good success. Sometimes they can be replaced with conventional bearings or water lubricated rubber bearings. Pleas describe the use and location of the bearings in the unit. Are the run in oil? Normally bearing of this style last for many years and require little or no water cooling. Is it possible that these bearings run submerged in your application? Best Ron MacLeod
            • steve gregory
              Hello, There are a couple problems from my perspective with going to roller bearings. The first is a life cycle issue most of these roller bearings have lives
              Message 6 of 9 , Jun 2, 2012
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                Hello,

                There are a couple problems from my perspective with going to roller bearings.

                The first is a life cycle issue most of these roller bearings have lives rated in days not years as is needed for hydroplants. The second is loading – I remember bearings being sized for a short circuit of half the poles. The normal loads as well as the startup loads need to be considered for the size of these roller bearings.

                If sealing is a problem with the oil bearings then what makes you think it won’t be a problem with the roller bearings?

                There are seals specifically designed for hydro turbine bearings.

                These elasto- thermo- hydrodynamic bearings have a lot of experience built into them.

                Steve Gregory

                From: microhydro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:microhydro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jrkess98@...
                Sent: June-01-12 7:01 PM
                To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [microhydro] oil film bearing





                Two little problems in such a change.
                1. Journal bearings are split, whereas MOST rolling-element bearings are
                rings, pressed onto a shaft.
                2. Rolling element bearings are much larger in outside diameter, requiring
                an entirely different housing. At least you would be able to eliminate the
                oil supply, but you are looking at some serious re-engineering.
                Yes, there ARE split roller bearings, but they start at rather large sizes,
                and still will require major re-machining of the old journal-bearing
                housings, if they can be re-used at all.

                You describe oil contamination (contact with the stream water?). If that
                is true, perhaps better sealing devices would help. Normally the higher
                oil pressure leaks a bit OUTWARD, and the stream cannot contaminate it. If
                stream pressure is higher than oil pressure of course you will have
                contamination. In which case it is necessary to increase oil pressure.
                Good luck.
                John Kessler
                Ft. Lauderdale


                In a message dated 6/1/2012 5:49:59 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                shababwahid@... <mailto:shababwahid%40yahoo.com> writes:

                dear all

                we have chinese hydro turbines in operation equipped with oese oil film
                bearing(journal bearing with white metal inside and cooled with oil)

                these bearings are hard to maintain during silty season.

                can we replace with rolling element bearings?

                regards

                shabab

                it a 1 MW francis unit with one radial and one thrust bearing.the thrust
                pads wear out fast and the water cooling the oil clogs the filter)

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • shabab wahid
                dear all thank you for your inputi will check and  try to send you more information about the bearing soon regardsshabab ... From: saeid bagheri
                Message 7 of 9 , Jun 2, 2012
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                  dear all thank you for your inputi will check and  try to send you more information about the bearing soon
                  regardsshabab

                  --- On Sat, 2/6/12, saeid bagheri <bagheri28040@...> wrote:

                  From: saeid bagheri <bagheri28040@...>
                  Subject: Re: [microhydro] oil film bearing
                  To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Saturday, 2 June, 2012, 5:22 AM
















                   









                  dear sir

                   

                  pls send me shaft shop drawings & technical specification such as existing shaft material,  loadings, speeds, shaft runout, bearins architectural configuration on shaft.

                   

                  br

                  bagheri

                  --- On Fri, 6/1/12, shababwahid <shababwahid@...> wrote:



                  From: shababwahid <shababwahid@...>

                  Subject: [microhydro] oil film bearing

                  To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com

                  Date: Friday, June 1, 2012, 9:49 AM



                   



                  dear all



                  we have chinese hydro turbines in operation equipped with oese oil film bearing(journal bearing with white metal inside and cooled with oil)



                  these bearings are hard to maintain during silty season.



                  can we replace with rolling element bearings?



                  regards



                  shabab



                  it a 1 MW francis unit with one radial and one thrust bearing.the thrust pads wear out fast and the water cooling the oil clogs the filter)



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



























                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Tom
                  Hi do you have a photo of the location of these bearings in the system? Babbitt bearings are low speed and very good, but not with silt you might consider
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jun 4, 2012
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                    Hi


                    do you have a photo of the location of these bearings in the system?


                    Babbitt bearings are low speed and very good, but not with silt
                    you might consider using something like a cutless bearing ( think boat propeller shaft bearing )that you inject clean water through and it also works very well for slow speed


                    Tom


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • David Murray
                    Good morning Group;Babbit bearing materials as I alluded to last week, are available with a wide range of properties that acomodate applications that are low
                    Message 9 of 9 , Jun 5, 2012
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                      Good morning Group;Babbit bearing materials as I alluded to last week, are available with a wide range of properties that acomodate applications that are low speed, high speed, low pressure, high pressure, lubricated with oil,grease or water! Canadian Babbit Bearing In Brantford Ontario Canada, is the North American source for bearing solutions in the hydro electric industry. They are manufacturers with an in house foundry and full service machine shop turning to 10+ feet in diameter.Cheers, David Murray,Eureka Micro Hydro Devices, Mount Hope Ontario, Canada, 905-679-6948.
                      To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
                      From: tommygator@...
                      Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 20:03:28 -0400
                      Subject: [microhydro] Re: oil film bearing


























                      Hi



                      do you have a photo of the location of these bearings in the system?



                      Babbitt bearings are low speed and very good, but not with silt

                      you might consider using something like a cutless bearing ( think boat propeller shaft bearing )that you inject clean water through and it also works very well for slow speed



                      Tom



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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