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Cost to grid tie a 50kW Crossflow hydro with Jahns speed regulator

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  • christian_bruderer
    Hi Everyone, I am looking for advice from anyone with experience in connecting a Crossflow turbine to the grid. Currently the turbine is being speed regulated
    Message 1 of 3 , Sep 3, 2011
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      Hi Everyone,

      I am looking for advice from anyone with experience in connecting a Crossflow turbine to the grid. Currently the turbine is being speed regulated in isolated mode by a Jahns speed governor (pls. see uploaded photo images, my apologies for blurry quality)

      Obviously lowest cost is important but also interested in a more expensive solution if it will help automation, safety or efficiency.

      The purpose is to sell excess power to the grid. Also interested in being able to operate in isolated mode (internal consumption) during grid outages.

      Please recommend an economical way to synch and grid tie safely. Estimated Cost?
    • SUSAN OLARTE
      Hi Christian Jahns is obsolete Mechanical Governor but if it is operational by using the speed setting motor to rise or lower lower the Frequency.Synchronizing
      Message 2 of 3 , Sep 5, 2011
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        Hi Christian

        Jahns is obsolete Mechanical Governor but if it is operational by
        using the speed setting motor to rise or lower lower the
        Frequency.Synchronizing
        is not Problem,It can be done ls by manual tru the knob raise lower

        You must have the following in the Panel Enclosure

        Frequency Meter Bus and Generator
        Voltmeter Bus and Generator
        Kw Meter 0 to Kw ?
        Power factor Meter
        Synchroscope with on and off switch or Synchro check relay

        Reverse Power relay
        Overcurrent relay
        Frequency relay Over/under
        Over/under voltage relay

        Circuit breaker electricaly operated with shubt trip or Contactor with
        on and off switch need amperes

        The Generator Voltage Regulator must be with droop or Cross current
        compensator Grid synchronizing

        Another alternate is ELC lectronic Lod Controlller with ll those
        Feaatures U$25,000.00


        U$ 15,000.00 to 20,000.00


        Best Regrds


        Art







        On Sat, Sep 3, 2011 at 4:45 PM, christian_bruderer <
        christian_bruderer@...> wrote:

        > **
        >
        >
        > Hi Everyone,
        >
        > I am looking for advice from anyone with experience in connecting a
        > Crossflow turbine to the grid. Currently the turbine is being speed
        > regulated in isolated mode by a Jahns speed governor (pls. see uploaded
        > photo images, my apologies for blurry quality)
        >
        > Obviously lowest cost is important but also interested in a more expensive
        > solution if it will help automation, safety or efficiency.
        >
        > The purpose is to sell excess power to the grid. Also interested in being
        > able to operate in isolated mode (internal consumption) during grid outages.
        >
        > Please recommend an economical way to synch and grid tie safely. Estimated
        > Cost?
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Nando
        Christian: You are asking generalities and want precision since estimated cost is desired. You need to supply a lot of more information on your plant and in
        Message 3 of 3 , Sep 5, 2011
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          Christian:

          You are asking generalities and want precision since estimated cost is desired.


          You need to supply a lot of more information on your plant and in detail -- like what the Jahns speed governor is a how precise controls the turbine and how it is done -- being a banki, probably you are saying that Jahns is a hydraulic or a mechanical governor - I am not familiar with the brand.

          Automation takes several steps from you to determine what is the best path to follow and how to do it within the financial considerations.

          And the process to have isolated power and GRID dumping power .

          The governor needs to be analyzed to see if it can me coupled to an electronic controller that reads:

          The Power Factor,

          The frequency ( this may questionable) depending on the banki

          Voltmeter - normally the generator should have capabilities to vary the output voltage to be able to supply the peak power -- because -- often the GRID loads near the hydro may vary the voltage within certain range.

          Synchronizing circuit -- that depends on the generator --the one we have done we momentarily disconnect the generator biasing circuit to kill the generated voltage, make the connection to the GRID and reconnect the biasing circuit to produce power -- this way there is NOT any inrush currents when the GRID connection is made.

          Often - an over current detector is needed to disconnect from the GRID -- it depends - on the hydro itself.

          Often -- they may require a circuit to limit the frequency either up / down.

          Of course the connect/disconnect relay arrangement

          There are alternatives :

          1) one would be a marriage of the Jahns and an EFC- ELC to allow proper handling of the above parameters

          2) EFC -- ELC with ballast loads -- but in this case the mechanical or hydraulic governor may be not used if the water source is full flow 24/7/365 - otherwise the need to do a manual re-adjust of the governor.

          We have used #1 alternative with 50 kw and 100 KW bankis and Turgos.-- also Peltons with Spear Valves electronically controlled .

          Cost depends where you are and the financial structure of your country - from 5000 to around 20,000 U$D - dollars.

          Nando


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: christian_bruderer
          To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2011 18:45
          Subject: [microhydro] Cost to grid tie a 50kW Crossflow hydro with Jahns speed regulator



          Hi Everyone,

          I am looking for advice from anyone with experience in connecting a Crossflow turbine to the grid. Currently the turbine is being speed regulated in isolated mode by a Jahns speed governor (pls. see uploaded photo images, my apologies for blurry quality)

          Obviously lowest cost is important but also interested in a more expensive solution if it will help automation, safety or efficiency.

          The purpose is to sell excess power to the grid. Also interested in being able to operate in isolated mode (internal consumption) during grid outages.

          Please recommend an economical way to synch and grid tie safely. Estimated Cost?





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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