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RE: [microhydro] Mini Hydro Idea

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  • Peter Ormonde
    G day, Your understanding of the electrics is just about right but there are a few basic steps that determine the design of a hydro system, long before you get
    Message 1 of 14 , Apr 30, 2009
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      G'day,

      Your understanding of the electrics is just about right but there are a few basic steps that determine the design of a hydro system, long before you get to tinker with rectifiers and AC issues.

      The first thing is to make a reasonable assessment of your resources... there are a few rough ways to do it... time filling a 10 liter bucket to get a rate of flow (lots of hydro websites will tell you how to do this more or less accurately) .... walk along the streams and get a good idea of the maximum head (the vertical drop of the water from source to turbine) available. Get to know the stream like the back of your hand.

      You are looking for the best flow over the highest head... + a decent rate of flow... head is probably more significant than flow...so steep country is best. Is the flow constant or seasonal? How low does it get? Ask around.

      Once you have some numbers you can make an approximation of how much power your can generate, the size of the turbine and so forth. Then look at the "market": How much power do they use? How much power could they use? Where must the power go? If the generator is a long way off you'll want high voltage AC ... All of these things bear on the choice of the turbine set up and what sort of current to provide.

      In a very real way you do invent the wheel again every time you design a system.

      Get a topographical map is you can and map the houses and the proposed penstock layout (the bit that feeds the water to the turbine) and you start to get the first inklings of a distribution network. Plastic overlays are useful, otherwise by the time you get to idea number 37 the map is looking a bit ratty...

      Google "picohydro" for some good small scale set ups. Also "pumps as turbine" which have some small useful scale applications.

      Peter

      To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
      From: pfuller_2000@...
      Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 18:42:44 -0700
      Subject: [microhydro] Mini Hydro Idea




























      I am hoping some knowledgeable person can assist me with a small hydro project I am considering building. I live in the Philippines and frequently go into a rural area that is without electricity. The small community has access to a diesel generator for around 4 hours each evening for a small daily fee. However as the people are almost subsistence farmers few have even the small amount to pay for the power. I have observed several sources of water with constant strong flows and just recently I stumbled across this forum which got me thinking about trying to utilize the water to produce hydro power. I then thought if I used that motion to turn a 24V AC alternator I might be able to use an inverter to provide 230Vac. I have read a little about various types of water wheels to generate a rotary action and as a mechanical engineer I consider I am well able to build that part of the hydro myself (the water wheel and alternator setup). However, I know just the

      basics about electricity so I am unsure whether any useful electrical power could be generated. Can anyone advise me please? Am I trying to reinvent the wheel?

      Thanks and regards



      Paul



      Get fit, feel better! All the help you need at Yahoo!Xtra Health - http://nz.lifestyle.yahoo.com/health




















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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • BD_wanika
      Academicians in the fields of micro , mini power dams and renewable energy who would like to do some work or teaching in Uganda East Africa you are invited by
      Message 2 of 14 , May 6 12:12 AM
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        Academicians in the fields of micro , mini power dams and renewable
        energy who would like to do some work or teaching in Uganda East Africa
        you are invited by KAMPALA UNIVERSITY to join them in research and
        teaching

        You can contact

        Director for Planning and Development

        or

        The VICE Chancellor
        Prof. Kateregga. D. Badru
        Kampala University
        P.O. Box 25454
        Kampala
        Uganda.

        email.ambprobdk@...
        uhl:http://www.kampalauniversity.net/
        ambprobdk@...@...




















        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Richard Kenward
        Dear Nando I ve been on this forum for a few months and would just like to say a very big thank you for all the valuable information and help that you yourself
        Message 3 of 14 , May 6 12:04 PM
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          Dear Nando

          I've been on this forum for a few months and would just like to say a
          very big thank you for all the valuable information and help that you
          yourself provide to the members.

          I'm involved with a local community group interested in developing a
          number of water sources in our valley in S Wales in the UK and although
          our project is at an early stage, the information will be invaluable.

          Many thanks.

          Richard
          --
          Richard Kenward
        • Nando
          Richard: Many thanks for your kind words and keep me informed about your projects, as early as possible, to see how we can assist you and your community
          Message 4 of 14 , May 6 1:01 PM
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            Richard:

            Many thanks for your kind words and keep me informed about your projects, as early as possible, to see how we can assist you and your community group.

            Nando


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Richard Kenward
            To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 2:04 PM
            Subject: [microhydro] A vote of thanks!





            Dear Nando

            I've been on this forum for a few months and would just like to say a
            very big thank you for all the valuable information and help that you
            yourself provide to the members.

            I'm involved with a local community group interested in developing a
            number of water sources in our valley in S Wales in the UK and although
            our project is at an early stage, the information will be invaluable.

            Many thanks.

            Richard
            --
            Richard Kenward




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • nelson_lontok
            hi guys, newbie here... just like paul, i really have no idea of micro hydropower system/set-up although i understand the basic step or system needed to have
            Message 5 of 14 , May 7 1:21 AM
            • 0 Attachment
              hi guys,

              newbie here... just like paul, i really have no idea of micro hydropower system/set-up although i understand the basic step or system needed to have one but the problem is how to start.

              We came of the idea to use the effluent of our wastewater treatment plant to generate power, feasible or not, we don't know; a flow rate of 100m3/hr with a head of 5m?? can somebody recommend any contractor or supplier available or present in the philippines that may be asked about this.

              doing it in-house might be a tedious process (fabrication, making your own design of the wheel, how to connect or install it) and seeking the services of a contractor who has knowledge about it will make the project more efficient/fast.

              any inputs from you guys will be a great help. thanks in advance


              --- In microhydro@yahoogroups.com, "Nando" <nando37@...> wrote:
              >
              > Paul:
              >
              > Hello, as you indicate, you do not have experience in hydro electric principles, therefore you need to learn a bit and at the same time to have a helping hand to assist you in your project.
              >
              > Being a Mechanical Engineer will allow you to grasp, very fast the hydro principles -
              >
              > With this message and directly to you I am attaching an article to show you how to measure a water source to determine what can be harvested from the source .
              >
              > Do not assume from the beginning what you want to have ,voltage and power wise, it is best to determine what can be obtained then as a consequence what would be best to design for such site.
              >
              > There are many types of turbines adaptable to specific sites -- so the right marriage is needed to optimize the energy production and long happy life.
              >
              > Can your email ISP allow high speed and/or some large size files ?.
              >
              > Nando
              >
              > .
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Paul
              > To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 8:42 PM
              > Subject: [microhydro] Mini Hydro Idea
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > I am hoping some knowledgeable person can assist me with a small hydro project I am considering building. I live in the Philippines and frequently go into a rural area that is without electricity. The small community has access to a diesel generator for around 4 hours each evening for a small daily fee. However as the people are almost subsistence farmers few have even the small amount to pay for the power. I have observed several sources of water with constant strong flows and just recently I stumbled across this forum which got me thinking about trying to utilize the water to produce hydro power. I then thought if I used that motion to turn a 24V AC alternator I might be able to use an inverter to provide 230Vac. I have read a little about various types of water wheels to generate a rotary action and as a mechanical engineer I consider I am well able to build that part of the hydro myself (the water wheel and alternator setup). However, I know just the
              > basics about electricity so I am unsure whether any useful electrical power could be generated. Can anyone advise me please? Am I trying to reinvent the wheel?
              > Thanks and regards
              >
              > Paul
              >
              > Get fit, feel better! All the help you need at Yahoo!Xtra Health - http://nz.lifestyle.yahoo.com/health
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Richard Kenward
              In his posting of Wed, 6 May 2009, Nando writes ... Dear Nando Thanks. Nothing much I can say at present except that our main potential source of power
              Message 6 of 14 , May 7 3:52 PM
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                In his posting of Wed, 6 May 2009, Nando writes
                >Richard:
                >Many thanks for your kind words and keep me informed about your projects,
                >as early as possible, to see how we can assist you and your community
                >group.
                >

                Dear Nando

                Thanks. Nothing much I can say at present except that our main
                potential source of power involves a redundant reservoir. About twenty
                five years ago a new Pelton wheel and generator was bought to generate
                power from this source but was never used. A building to house it
                exists and the feed pipe etc. is still in place I understand. At the
                moment we are negotiating with several interested parties so I cannot
                say too much. The designed power capability is around 34KW. We have
                had a survey done of several small water sources in the valley but the
                report has not yet materialized!

                Cheers

                Richard
                --
                Richard Kenward
              • Nando
                Nelson: 100 M^3/s = 27.78 liter/sec and 5 meter head may produce ; Watts = 27.78 * 5 * 9.81 = 1362 watts then if we use an overall efficiency of 61 % the power
                Message 7 of 14 , May 7 10:23 PM
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                  Nelson:

                  100 M^3/s = 27.78 liter/sec and 5 meter head may produce ;
                  Watts = 27.78 * 5 * 9.81 = 1362 watts
                  then if we use an overall efficiency of 61 % the power would be

                  1362 * 0.61 = 830.8 watts ,

                  Since this type of water may need cleaning processes to insure turbine long life, I believe that this project may not be practical
                  Maybe somebody may offer opinions.


                  Nando


                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: nelson_lontok
                  To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 3:21 AM
                  Subject: [microhydro] Re: Mini Hydro Idea





                  hi guys,

                  newbie here... just like paul, i really have no idea of micro hydropower system/set-up although i understand the basic step or system needed to have one but the problem is how to start.

                  We came of the idea to use the effluent of our wastewater treatment plant to generate power, feasible or not, we don't know; a flow rate of 100m3/hr with a head of 5m?? can somebody recommend any contractor or supplier available or present in the philippines that may be asked about this.

                  doing it in-house might be a tedious process (fabrication, making your own design of the wheel, how to connect or install it) and seeking the services of a contractor who has knowledge about it will make the project more efficient/fast.

                  any inputs from you guys will be a great help. thanks in advance

                  --- In microhydro@yahoogroups.com, "Nando" <nando37@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Paul:
                  >
                  > Hello, as you indicate, you do not have experience in hydro electric principles, therefore you need to learn a bit and at the same time to have a helping hand to assist you in your project.
                  >
                  > Being a Mechanical Engineer will allow you to grasp, very fast the hydro principles -
                  >
                  > With this message and directly to you I am attaching an article to show you how to measure a water source to determine what can be harvested from the source .
                  >
                  > Do not assume from the beginning what you want to have ,voltage and power wise, it is best to determine what can be obtained then as a consequence what would be best to design for such site.
                  >
                  > There are many types of turbines adaptable to specific sites -- so the right marriage is needed to optimize the energy production and long happy life.
                  >
                  > Can your email ISP allow high speed and/or some large size files ?.
                  >
                  > Nando
                  >
                  > .
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: Paul
                  > To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 8:42 PM
                  > Subject: [microhydro] Mini Hydro Idea
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I am hoping some knowledgeable person can assist me with a small hydro project I am considering building. I live in the Philippines and frequently go into a rural area that is without electricity. The small community has access to a diesel generator for around 4 hours each evening for a small daily fee. However as the people are almost subsistence farmers few have even the small amount to pay for the power. I have observed several sources of water with constant strong flows and just recently I stumbled across this forum which got me thinking about trying to utilize the water to produce hydro power. I then thought if I used that motion to turn a 24V AC alternator I might be able to use an inverter to provide 230Vac. I have read a little about various types of water wheels to generate a rotary action and as a mechanical engineer I consider I am well able to build that part of the hydro myself (the water wheel and alternator setup). However, I know just the
                  > basics about electricity so I am unsure whether any useful electrical power could be generated. Can anyone advise me please? Am I trying to reinvent the wheel?
                  > Thanks and regards
                  >
                  > Paul
                  >
                  > Get fit, feel better! All the help you need at Yahoo!Xtra Health - http://nz.lifestyle.yahoo.com/health
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • FRANK HELLER
                  Archimedes screws are being used for this purpose.somewhere I have the name of a company which specializes in making them for Sewerage treatment plants to
                  Message 8 of 14 , May 14 10:16 AM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Archimedes screws are being used for this purpose.somewhere I have the name
                    of a company which specializes in making them for Sewerage treatment plants
                    to generate power to run the plant.



                    Frank J. Heller, MPA

                    KATAHDIN ENERGY WORKS

                    Certified SOLAR ENERGY INSTALLER #90000897

                    12 Belmont St.

                    Brunswick, ME 04011-3004

                    207.729.6090 CELL 207.44.9469

                    http://home.myfairpoint.net/fjheller/



                    From: microhydro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:microhydro@yahoogroups.com] On
                    Behalf Of Nando
                    Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 4:24 AM
                    To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [microhydro] Re: Mini Hydro Idea








                    Nelson:

                    100 M^3/s = 27.78 liter/sec and 5 meter head may produce ;
                    Watts = 27.78 * 5 * 9.81 = 1362 watts
                    then if we use an overall efficiency of 61 % the power would be

                    1362 * 0.61 = 830.8 watts ,

                    Since this type of water may need cleaning processes to insure turbine long
                    life, I believe that this project may not be practical
                    Maybe somebody may offer opinions.

                    Nando

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: nelson_lontok
                    To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com <mailto:microhydro%40yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 3:21 AM
                    Subject: [microhydro] Re: Mini Hydro Idea

                    hi guys,

                    newbie here... just like paul, i really have no idea of micro hydropower
                    system/set-up although i understand the basic step or system needed to have
                    one but the problem is how to start.

                    We came of the idea to use the effluent of our wastewater treatment plant to
                    generate power, feasible or not, we don't know; a flow rate of 100m3/hr with
                    a head of 5m?? can somebody recommend any contractor or supplier available
                    or present in the philippines that may be asked about this.

                    doing it in-house might be a tedious process (fabrication, making your own
                    design of the wheel, how to connect or install it) and seeking the services
                    of a contractor who has knowledge about it will make the project more
                    efficient/fast.

                    any inputs from you guys will be a great help. thanks in advance

                    --- In microhydro@yahoogroups.com <mailto:microhydro%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                    "Nando" <nando37@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Paul:
                    >
                    > Hello, as you indicate, you do not have experience in hydro electric
                    principles, therefore you need to learn a bit and at the same time to have a
                    helping hand to assist you in your project.
                    >
                    > Being a Mechanical Engineer will allow you to grasp, very fast the hydro
                    principles -
                    >
                    > With this message and directly to you I am attaching an article to show
                    you how to measure a water source to determine what can be harvested from
                    the source .
                    >
                    > Do not assume from the beginning what you want to have ,voltage and power
                    wise, it is best to determine what can be obtained then as a consequence
                    what would be best to design for such site.
                    >
                    > There are many types of turbines adaptable to specific sites -- so the
                    right marriage is needed to optimize the energy production and long happy
                    life.
                    >
                    > Can your email ISP allow high speed and/or some large size files ?.
                    >
                    > Nando
                    >
                    > .
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: Paul
                    > To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com <mailto:microhydro%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 8:42 PM
                    > Subject: [microhydro] Mini Hydro Idea
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > I am hoping some knowledgeable person can assist me with a small hydro
                    project I am considering building. I live in the Philippines and frequently
                    go into a rural area that is without electricity. The small community has
                    access to a diesel generator for around 4 hours each evening for a small
                    daily fee. However as the people are almost subsistence farmers few have
                    even the small amount to pay for the power. I have observed several sources
                    of water with constant strong flows and just recently I stumbled across this
                    forum which got me thinking about trying to utilize the water to produce
                    hydro power. I then thought if I used that motion to turn a 24V AC
                    alternator I might be able to use an inverter to provide 230Vac. I have read
                    a little about various types of water wheels to generate a rotary action and
                    as a mechanical engineer I consider I am well able to build that part of the
                    hydro myself (the water wheel and alternator setup). However, I know just
                    the
                    > basics about electricity so I am unsure whether any useful electrical
                    power could be generated. Can anyone advise me please? Am I trying to
                    reinvent the wheel?
                    > Thanks and regards
                    >
                    > Paul
                    >
                    > Get fit, feel better! All the help you need at Yahoo!Xtra Health -
                    http://nz.lifestyle.yahoo.com/health
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Nelson Lontok
                    frank, pls. recall the name of the company you are referring to. This would be a great help on us. thanks. regards, Nelson ... From: FRANK HELLER
                    Message 9 of 14 , May 14 11:51 PM
                    • 0 Attachment
                      frank,

                      pls. recall the name of the company you are referring to. This would be a great help on us. thanks.

                      regards,
                      Nelson

                      --- On Thu, 5/14/09, FRANK HELLER <fjheller@...> wrote:

                      From: FRANK HELLER <fjheller@...>
                      Subject: RE: [microhydro] Re: Mini Hydro Idea
                      To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Thursday, May 14, 2009, 10:16 AM

















                      Archimedes screws are being used for this purpose.somewhere I have the name

                      of a company which specializes in making them for Sewerage treatment plants

                      to generate power to run the plant.



                      Frank J. Heller, MPA



                      KATAHDIN ENERGY WORKS



                      Certified SOLAR ENERGY INSTALLER #90000897



                      12 Belmont St.



                      Brunswick, ME 04011-3004



                      207.729.6090 CELL 207.44.9469



                      http://home. myfairpoint. net/fjheller/



                      From: microhydro@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:microhydro@yahoogro ups.com] On

                      Behalf Of Nando

                      Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 4:24 AM

                      To: microhydro@yahoogro ups.com

                      Subject: Re: [microhydro] Re: Mini Hydro Idea



                      Nelson:



                      100 M^3/s = 27.78 liter/sec and 5 meter head may produce ;

                      Watts = 27.78 * 5 * 9.81 = 1362 watts

                      then if we use an overall efficiency of 61 % the power would be



                      1362 * 0.61 = 830.8 watts ,



                      Since this type of water may need cleaning processes to insure turbine long

                      life, I believe that this project may not be practical

                      Maybe somebody may offer opinions.



                      Nando



                      ----- Original Message -----

                      From: nelson_lontok

                      To: microhydro@yahoogro ups.com <mailto:microhydro% 40yahoogroups. com>

                      Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 3:21 AM

                      Subject: [microhydro] Re: Mini Hydro Idea



                      hi guys,



                      newbie here... just like paul, i really have no idea of micro hydropower

                      system/set-up although i understand the basic step or system needed to have

                      one but the problem is how to start.



                      We came of the idea to use the effluent of our wastewater treatment plant to

                      generate power, feasible or not, we don't know; a flow rate of 100m3/hr with

                      a head of 5m?? can somebody recommend any contractor or supplier available

                      or present in the philippines that may be asked about this.



                      doing it in-house might be a tedious process (fabrication, making your own

                      design of the wheel, how to connect or install it) and seeking the services

                      of a contractor who has knowledge about it will make the project more

                      efficient/fast.



                      any inputs from you guys will be a great help. thanks in advance



                      --- In microhydro@yahoogro ups.com <mailto:microhydro% 40yahoogroups. com> ,

                      "Nando" <nando37@... > wrote:

                      >

                      > Paul:

                      >

                      > Hello, as you indicate, you do not have experience in hydro electric

                      principles, therefore you need to learn a bit and at the same time to have a

                      helping hand to assist you in your project.

                      >

                      > Being a Mechanical Engineer will allow you to grasp, very fast the hydro

                      principles -

                      >

                      > With this message and directly to you I am attaching an article to show

                      you how to measure a water source to determine what can be harvested from

                      the source .

                      >

                      > Do not assume from the beginning what you want to have ,voltage and power

                      wise, it is best to determine what can be obtained then as a consequence

                      what would be best to design for such site.

                      >

                      > There are many types of turbines adaptable to specific sites -- so the

                      right marriage is needed to optimize the energy production and long happy

                      life.

                      >

                      > Can your email ISP allow high speed and/or some large size files ?.

                      >

                      > Nando

                      >

                      > .

                      >

                      > ----- Original Message -----

                      > From: Paul

                      > To: microhydro@yahoogro ups.com <mailto:microhydro% 40yahoogroups. com>

                      > Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 8:42 PM

                      > Subject: [microhydro] Mini Hydro Idea

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      > I am hoping some knowledgeable person can assist me with a small hydro

                      project I am considering building. I live in the Philippines and frequently

                      go into a rural area that is without electricity. The small community has

                      access to a diesel generator for around 4 hours each evening for a small

                      daily fee. However as the people are almost subsistence farmers few have

                      even the small amount to pay for the power. I have observed several sources

                      of water with constant strong flows and just recently I stumbled across this

                      forum which got me thinking about trying to utilize the water to produce

                      hydro power. I then thought if I used that motion to turn a 24V AC

                      alternator I might be able to use an inverter to provide 230Vac. I have read

                      a little about various types of water wheels to generate a rotary action and

                      as a mechanical engineer I consider I am well able to build that part of the

                      hydro myself (the water wheel and alternator setup). However, I know just

                      the

                      > basics about electricity so I am unsure whether any useful electrical

                      power could be generated. Can anyone advise me please? Am I trying to

                      reinvent the wheel?

                      > Thanks and regards

                      >

                      > Paul

                      >

                      > Get fit, feel better! All the help you need at Yahoo!Xtra Health -

                      http://nz.lifestyle .yahoo.com/ health

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                      >



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]































                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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