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ARCHIMEDES SCREW TURBINE

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  • Nando
    QUESTION TO ALL: Does any one have the calculations and formulas to design an ARCHIMEDES SCREW as TURBINE ?. Either IMPERIAL or Metric .. Thanks Nando
    Message 1 of 10 , Nov 1, 2008
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      QUESTION TO ALL:

      Does any one have the calculations and formulas to design an ARCHIMEDES
      SCREW as TURBINE ?.

      Either IMPERIAL or Metric ..

      Thanks

      Nando
    • Bill Sepmeier
      ... Nando, Wouldn t this turbine conform to the same hydro formulae that you use all the time? The physics shouldn t change. P = h r g Q H Head is simple
      Message 2 of 10 , Nov 1, 2008
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        At 10:13 AM 11/1/2008, you wrote:

        >QUESTION TO ALL:
        >
        >Does any one have the calculations and formulas to design an ARCHIMEDES
        >SCREW as TURBINE ?.


        Nando,

        Wouldn't this turbine conform to the same hydro formulae that you use
        all the time? The physics shouldn't change.

        P = h r g Q H

        Head is simple enough ... Flow rate is harder though ... depends on
        the size and speed of the screw.

        After Googling a bit -- The stability of output power vs. flow is
        remarkable, based on the data at that Mann site...

        Didn't Archimedes figure this out? OK, he was designing pumps .. but
        this can't be too tough to reverse-engineer ...

        (The video of the 48kW unit at that River Park site is waaay cool!)

        :-)

        Bill



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Nando
        Bill: The basic formula as you stated is earth physics defined . What I need is the formulation and the parameters to design the turbine or screw parameters
        Message 3 of 10 , Nov 2, 2008
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          Bill:

          The basic formula as you stated is earth physics defined .

          What I need is the formulation and the parameters to design the turbine or screw parameters that have to have the dimensioning of the center diameter ( shaft) and the screw blades plus their width and angles that are calculated based on the head and volume which may indicate an angle placement of the turbine in relation to the blade angle, within certain limitations, to be able to produce power or to pump water up to about one atmosphere pressure equivalent height since it is an open system.

          The parameters of the pump and the turbine may be quite well related to each other and may be with very low technical and mechanical difference between them.

          Nando


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Bill Sepmeier
          To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 6:51 PM
          Subject: Re: [microhydro] ARCHIMEDES SCREW TURBINE


          At 10:13 AM 11/1/2008, you wrote:

          >QUESTION TO ALL:
          >
          >Does any one have the calculations and formulas to design an ARCHIMEDES
          >SCREW as TURBINE ?.

          Nando,

          Wouldn't this turbine conform to the same hydro formulae that you use
          all the time? The physics shouldn't change.

          P = h r g Q H

          Head is simple enough ... Flow rate is harder though ... depends on
          the size and speed of the screw.

          After Googling a bit -- The stability of output power vs. flow is
          remarkable, based on the data at that Mann site...

          Didn't Archimedes figure this out? OK, he was designing pumps .. but
          this can't be too tough to reverse-engineer ...

          (The video of the 48kW unit at that River Park site is waaay cool!)

          :-)

          Bill

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Bill Sepmeier
          ... I think you ll find most of what you need at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archimedes_screw Scroll down the page for the math.... here s the gist of it.
          Message 4 of 10 , Nov 2, 2008
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            >What I need is the formulation and the
            >parameters to design the turbine or screw
            >parameters that have to have the dimensioning of
            >the center diameter ( shaft) and the screw
            >blades plus their width and angles that are
            >calculated based on the head and volume which
            >may indicate an angle placement of the turbine
            >in relation to the blade angle, within certain
            >limitations, to be able to produce power or to
            >pump water up to about one atmosphere pressure
            >equivalent height since it is an open system.
            >The parameters of the pump and the turbine may
            >be quite well related to each other and may be
            >with very low technical and mechanical difference between them.

            I think you'll find most of what you need
            at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archimedes_screw

            Scroll down the page for the math.... here's the
            gist of it. A diagram is embedded at the bottom of this email...


            Mathematics behind the screw

            The slope of the outside of the screw's helical
            blades with respect to its sides is 2. This
            requires that the slope the screw makes with
            respect to a horizontal line be less than 2 (an
            angle of 63°) in order for the buckets or pockets
            of water to form. In the profile of the screw,
            the projection of each helical blade consists of
            two sinusoidal curves with the same periods and phases.
            One has an amplitude equal to the radius of the
            outer cylinder and the other has an amplitude
            equal to the radius of the inner cylinder. The
            horizontal water level of each full bucket of
            water is tangent to the inner sinusoidal curve.
            Thus, if the equation on the inner sinusoidal
            curve is y = sin x, then the water level is
            tangent to it at x = arccos( 3/4) = 138.59°.

            d = diameter of centre tube
            D = diameter of blades
            = angle of installation
            H0 = civil head
            H1 = difference of medium levels, effective head
            H2 = maximum difference of medium levels, delivery head
            H3 = hydraulic head
            J = number of flights
            L = length of helix
            S = rise

            <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Main_measures_screw-1-.jpg>
            []



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Bill Sepmeier
            ... Even better - one of the cites on that wiki page: The Turn of the Screw: Optimal Design of an
            Message 5 of 10 , Nov 2, 2008
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              At 02:24 PM 11/2/2008, you wrote:


              >What I need is the formulation and the parameters to design the turbine


              Even better - one of the cites on that wiki page:

              <http://www.mcs.drexel.edu/%7Ecrorres/screw/screw.pdf>The Turn of the
              Screw: Optimal Design of an Archimedes
              Screw<http://www.mcs.drexel.edu/%7Ecrorres/screw/screw.pdf>, by Chris
              Rorres, PhD.

              or --- http://www.cs.drexel.edu/~crorres/screw/screw.pdf -- if the
              link doesn't make it through the listserver...

              Bill





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • 羅 綜誼
              Dear Nando, I transfer these informations from WIKIPEDIA:   Mathematics behind the screw The slope of the outside of the screw s helical blades with
              Message 6 of 10 , Nov 2, 2008
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                Dear Nando,
                I transfer these informations from WIKIPEDIA: 
                 Mathematics behind the screw
                The slope of the outside of the screw's helical blades with respect to its sides is 2. This requires that the slope the screw makes with respect to a horizontal line be less than 2 (an angle of 63°) in order for the buckets or pockets of water to form. In the profile of the screw, the projection of each helical blade consists of two sinusoidal curves with the same periods and phases.



                Main dimensions of a screwpump
                One has an amplitude equal to the radius of the outer cylinder and the other has an amplitude equal to the radius of the inner cylinder. The horizontal water level of each full bucket of water is tangent to the inner sinusoidal curve. Thus, if the equation on the inner sinusoidal curve is y = sin x, then the water level is tangent to it at x = arccos(−3/4) = 138.59°.

                d = diameter of centre tube
                D = diameter of blades
                β = angle of installation
                H0 = civil head
                H1 = difference of medium levels, effective head
                H2 = maximum difference of medium levels, delivery head
                H3 = hydraulic head
                J = number of flights
                L = length of helix
                S = rise


                   A N I M A T I O N S





                Back to . . .
                Archimedes Home Page
                This section . . .
                Sources
                Illustrations
                Engravings


                Screw Conveyors
                Animations
                Optimal Design








                QuickTime movie showing how a two-bladed Archimedes screw lifts water.
                Large: 416 x 320 pixels, 183 kilobytes
                21 frames, black and white (bitmap)
                Small: 208 x 160 pixels, 184 kilobytes
                21 frames, grayscale Set your movie player to "Loop" so that the screw will continuously turn. Make sure your movie player shows all 21 frames; otherwise you will see undesirable stroboscopic effects.





                Two-bladed screw


                Eight-bladed screw
                Here are two QuickTime movies showing the cross-sections of a two-bladed and eight-bladed Archimedes screw as they revolve. You can download the following sizes of these movies (all are 34 frames long at 30 frames/second):
                Two-bladed:
                Large: 340 kilobytes, 372 x 372 pixels
                Medium: 148 kilobytes, 186 x 186 pixels
                Small: 76 kilobytes, 93 x 93 pixels
                Eight-bladed:
                Large: 384 kilobytes, 372 x 372 pixels
                Medium: 168 kilobytes, 186 x 186 pixels
                Small: 72 kilobytes, 93 x 93 pixels Set your movie player to "Loop" so that the screw will continuously turn. Make sure your movie player shows all 34 frames; otherwise you will see undesirable stroboscopic effects.
                The two-bladed cross-section is for the screw whose profile is in the first figure. The eight-bladed screw has the same profile, but with four times as many blades. An example of a two-bladed screw is shown in the two illustrations of modern Egyptian farmers.

                The screws in the animations have the proportions described by Virtruvius in his De Architectura. In particular, the length of the screw is eight times its outside diameter; the diameter of the inner cylinder is one-half the outside diameter; and the length along the screw of one turn of a helical blade is equal to the circumference of the inner cylinder. However, while Vitruvius's screw had eight blades, the first animation above has only two because of the limited resolution of the movie.
                The rotation of the screw is clockwise when looking down from the top water level. Each turn of the screw empties two "buckets" of water of the two-bladed screw and eight buckets of the eight-bladed screw. The angle of inclination of the screw is that determined by a 3-4-5 triangle (what Virtruvius calls a "Pythagorean right-angled triangle"), which is 36.870° (a slope of 3/4).
                Mathematical notes: The slope of the outside of the screw's helical blades with respect to its sides is 2. This requires that the slope the screw makes with respect to a horizontal line be less that 2 (an angle of 63.435°) in order for the buckets or pockets of water to form. In the profile of the screw the projection of each helical blade consists of two sinusoidal curves with the same periods and phases. One has an amplitude equal to the radius of the outer cylinder and the other has an amplitude equal to the radius of the inner cylinder. The horizontal water level of each full bucket of water is tangent to the inner sinusoidal curve. Thus, if the equation on the inner sinusoidal curve is y = sin x, then the water level is tangent to it at x = arccos(-3/4) = 138.59°.




                --- 08/11/2 (星期日),Nando <nando37@...> 寫道:

                寄件者: Nando <nando37@...>
                主旨: [microhydro] ARCHIMEDES SCREW TURBINE
                收件者: "MICROHYDRO" <microhydro@yahoogroups.com>
                日期: 2008 11 2 星期日 上午 12:13






                QUESTION TO ALL:

                Does any one have the calculations and formulas to design an ARCHIMEDES
                SCREW as TURBINE ?.

                Either IMPERIAL or Metric ..

                Thanks

                Nando
















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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Nando
                Thanks to those that have replied to my message : Archimedes Screw Turbine. All the information that have been supplied I have had it for some time now, To
                Message 7 of 10 , Nov 3, 2008
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                  Thanks to those that have replied to my message : Archimedes Screw Turbine.

                  All the information that have been supplied I have had it for some time now,

                  To calculate the screw, it not the problem, it is to calculate power and RPM generated. and possibly the efficiency under the water volume, screw dimensions and angles to be able to do an estimate system design power generation or even power require to move pump water under the same conditions.

                  I have been trying to find academia report or articles, unhappily no longer a member of societies to be able to fin or download them if available.

                  So if any one knows or have more information, please forward it !!

                  Thanks to all for any assistance you may provide to this endeavor.

                  Nando


                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Bill Sepmeier
                  To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com ; Nando
                  Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 4:45 PM
                  Subject: Re: [microhydro] ARCHIMEDES SCREW TURBINE


                  At 02:24 PM 11/2/2008, you wrote:

                  >What I need is the formulation and the parameters to design the turbine

                  Even better - one of the cites on that wiki page:

                  <http://www.mcs.drexel.edu/%7Ecrorres/screw/screw.pdf>The Turn of the
                  Screw: Optimal Design of an Archimedes
                  Screw<http://www.mcs.drexel.edu/%7Ecrorres/screw/screw.pdf>, by Chris
                  Rorres, PhD.

                  or --- http://www.cs.drexel.edu/~crorres/screw/screw.pdf -- if the
                  link doesn't make it through the listserver...

                  Bill

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • time slider
                  Hi... if you wish to build one.... just go to a farm machinery dealer and buy a grain auger and stick it in the water and turn.... it will pump water at a
                  Message 8 of 10 , Nov 3, 2008
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                    Hi... if you wish to "build" one.... just go to a farm machinery dealer and buy a grain auger and stick it in the water and turn.... it will pump water at a lower angle.  Or line the "flighting with a seal edging and it will do better .....
                    If you are running water down through it will spin..... and generate power... ( but rather inefficient.  
                    Have fun....
                    best regards........ Time Slider

                    Smile at your neighbours , be Happy, and Leave the Earth Green, Tread as Lightly on the Earth as You Know How...

                    Sawedoffshortdog

                    --- On Sat, 11/1/08, Nando <nando37@...> wrote:

                    From: Nando <nando37@...>
                    Subject: [microhydro] ARCHIMEDES SCREW TURBINE
                    To: "MICROHYDRO" <microhydro@yahoogroups.com>
                    Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 12:13 PM






                    QUESTION TO ALL:

                    Does any one have the calculations and formulas to design an ARCHIMEDES
                    SCREW as TURBINE ?.

                    Either IMPERIAL or Metric ..

                    Thanks

                    Nando


















                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Nando
                    Time: I think that you are wrong stating : rather inefficient . The Archimedes Screw as a turbine with a generator may have as high as 84 % efficiency
                    Message 9 of 10 , Nov 3, 2008
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                      Time:

                      I think that you are wrong stating : rather inefficient .

                      The Archimedes Screw as a turbine with a generator may have as high as 84 % efficiency

                      www.ritz-atro.de/2006/downloads/Wasserkraft_GB.pdf

                      Down load this article and notice that the efficiency is high well above 80 % within the ranges of a Turgo turbine.

                      As a pump the efficiency is as well high.

                      Nando

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: time slider
                      To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 2:09 PM
                      Subject: Re: [microhydro] ARCHIMEDES SCREW TURBINE


                      Hi... if you wish to "build" one.... just go to a farm machinery dealer and buy a grain auger and stick it in the water and turn.... it will pump water at a lower angle. Or line the "flighting with a seal edging and it will do better .....
                      If you are running water down through it will spin..... and generate power... ( but rather inefficient.
                      Have fun....
                      best regards........ Time Slider

                      Smile at your neighbours , be Happy, and Leave the Earth Green, Tread as Lightly on the Earth as You Know How...

                      Sawedoffshortdog

                      --- On Sat, 11/1/08, Nando <nando37@...> wrote:

                      From: Nando <nando37@...>
                      Subject: [microhydro] ARCHIMEDES SCREW TURBINE
                      To: "MICROHYDRO" <microhydro@yahoogroups.com>
                      Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 12:13 PM

                      QUESTION TO ALL:

                      Does any one have the calculations and formulas to design an ARCHIMEDES
                      SCREW as TURBINE ?.

                      Either IMPERIAL or Metric ..

                      Thanks

                      Nando

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • beeuwkes
                      ... Chris in Maine [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      Message 10 of 10 , Nov 4, 2008
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                        > Those interested in the Archimedes screw as a modern large scale pump might
                        > enjoy looking at these applications:
                        >
                        > http://www.math.nyu.edu/~crorres/Archimedes/Screw/Applications.html
                        >
                        > also:
                        >
                        > http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:IMG_1729_Gemaal_met_schroef_van_Archim
                        > edes_bij_Kinderdijk.JPG
                        >
                        >

                        Chris in Maine


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