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Re: How to use Proel HCM03

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  • idprova
    Thanks Scott. for avoid mistakes can you (if you have time) make a litle schematics for me? I am shure that microphon can use on SHURE transmitter for wirless
    Message 1 of 15 , Apr 1, 2009
      Thanks Scott.

      for avoid mistakes can you (if you have time) make a litle schematics for me? I am shure that microphon can use on SHURE transmitter for wirless system.

      I will use this microphon for amplify a "little girl" that plays Silver Flute during the whoship time in a church.

      I wold like to keep power from a mixer 48V Phantom using an XLR cable.
      Is it possible?

      Giuseppe


      --- In micbuilders@yahoogroups.com, Scott Helmke <scott@...> wrote:
      >
      > Those sorts of mics tend to be very much like interfacing a simple
      > Panasonic WM66 type of capsule - DC voltage down one wire, signal back
      > on the other with shared ground. Or you might need to send DC voltage
      > and signal on the same wire, but it's not very hard to interface to.
      >
      > The Shure connector puts DC voltage on one pin and signal on a different
      > pin, but many lav mics just put a little resistor in between those
      > pins on the connector and have ground (shield) and one signal/bias wire
      > back to the capsule itself.
      >
      > -Scott
      >
      > idprova wrote:
      > > I have a mic like this
      > > http://www.proelgroup.com/proel/en/newproducts/product.jsp?id_prod=11858899091500
      > >
      > > It have a 4-pin miniXLR and can be used with Shure transmitter
      > >
      > > Have you a schematics for buid a "9V Power supply" litle box with a normal XLR output?
      > >
      > > Or with a trick, is it possible to keep a 48V from a mixer and build an adapter XLR --> mini XLR-4P
      > >
      > > Thanks
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ------------------------------------
      > >
      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      > --
      > ---- Scott Helmke ---- scott@... ---- (734) 604-9340 ----
      > And you'll visualize not taking any chances
      > But meet them halfway with love, peace, and persuasion
      > And expect them to rise to the occasion
      > (from "Glad Tidings", by Van Morrison)
      >
    • Scott Helmke
      Giuseppe, I don t have a schematic for this mic or how to interface it. You should be able to open the connector to see how it s wired, and maybe I can help
      Message 2 of 15 , Apr 3, 2009
        Giuseppe,

        I don't have a schematic for this mic or how to interface it. You
        should be able to open the connector to see how it's wired, and maybe I
        can help from there.

        -Scott

        idprova wrote:
        > Thanks Scott.
        >
        > for avoid mistakes can you (if you have time) make a litle schematics for me? I am shure that microphon can use on SHURE transmitter for wirless system.
        >
        > I will use this microphon for amplify a "little girl" that plays Silver Flute during the whoship time in a church.
        >
        > I wold like to keep power from a mixer 48V Phantom using an XLR cable.
        > Is it possible?
        >
        > Giuseppe
        >
        >
        > --- In micbuilders@yahoogroups.com, Scott Helmke <scott@...> wrote:
        >> Those sorts of mics tend to be very much like interfacing a simple
        >> Panasonic WM66 type of capsule - DC voltage down one wire, signal back
        >> on the other with shared ground. Or you might need to send DC voltage
        >> and signal on the same wire, but it's not very hard to interface to.
        >>
        >> The Shure connector puts DC voltage on one pin and signal on a different
        >> pin, but many lav mics just put a little resistor in between those
        >> pins on the connector and have ground (shield) and one signal/bias wire
        >> back to the capsule itself.
        >>
        >> -Scott
        >>
        >> idprova wrote:
        >>> I have a mic like this
        >>> http://www.proelgroup.com/proel/en/newproducts/product.jsp?id_prod=11858899091500
        >>>
        >>> It have a 4-pin miniXLR and can be used with Shure transmitter
        >>>
        >>> Have you a schematics for buid a "9V Power supply" litle box with a normal XLR output?
        >>>
        >>> Or with a trick, is it possible to keep a 48V from a mixer and build an adapter XLR --> mini XLR-4P
        >>>
        >>> Thanks
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>> ------------------------------------
        >>>
        >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >> --
        >> ---- Scott Helmke ---- scott@... ---- (734) 604-9340 ----
        >> And you'll visualize not taking any chances
        >> But meet them halfway with love, peace, and persuasion
        >> And expect them to rise to the occasion
        >> (from "Glad Tidings", by Van Morrison)
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >

        --
        ---- Scott Helmke ---- scott@... ---- (734) 604-9340 ----
        And you'll visualize not taking any chances
        But meet them halfway with love, peace, and persuasion
        And expect them to rise to the occasion
        (from "Glad Tidings", by Van Morrison)
      • Joe Diliberto
        Hey all, Love this forum and appreciate it dearly! Wondering if anyone out there mods inexpensive tube mic pres? Please e-mail me at loudmusic2@msn.com if
        Message 3 of 15 , Apr 3, 2009
          Hey all,

          Love this forum and appreciate it dearly! Wondering if anyone out there mods inexpensive tube mic pres? Please e-mail me at loudmusic2@... if you're interested in taking on a project. Best...JD!













          EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
          Join me





          To: micbuilders@yahoogroups.com
          From: scott@...
          Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 09:41:55 -0500
          Subject: Re: [micbuilders] Re: How to use Proel HCM03





          Giuseppe,

          I don't have a schematic for this mic or how to interface it. You
          should be able to open the connector to see how it's wired, and maybe I
          can help from there.

          -Scott

          idprova wrote:
          > Thanks Scott.
          >
          > for avoid mistakes can you (if you have time) make a litle schematics for me? I am shure that microphon can use on SHURE transmitter for wirless system.
          >
          > I will use this microphon for amplify a "little girl" that plays Silver Flute during the whoship time in a church.
          >
          > I wold like to keep power from a mixer 48V Phantom using an XLR cable.
          > Is it possible?
          >
          > Giuseppe
          >
          >
          > --- In micbuilders@yahoogroups.com, Scott Helmke <scott@...> wrote:
          >> Those sorts of mics tend to be very much like interfacing a simple
          >> Panasonic WM66 type of capsule - DC voltage down one wire, signal back
          >> on the other with shared ground. Or you might need to send DC voltage
          >> and signal on the same wire, but it's not very hard to interface to.
          >>
          >> The Shure connector puts DC voltage on one pin and signal on a different
          >> pin, but many lav mics just put a little resistor in between those
          >> pins on the connector and have ground (shield) and one signal/bias wire
          >> back to the capsule itself.
          >>
          >> -Scott
          >>
          >> idprova wrote:
          >>> I have a mic like this
          >>> http://www.proelgroup.com/proel/en/newproducts/product.jsp?id_prod=11858899091500
          >>>
          >>> It have a 4-pin miniXLR and can be used with Shure transmitter
          >>>
          >>> Have you a schematics for buid a "9V Power supply" litle box with a normal XLR output?
          >>>
          >>> Or with a trick, is it possible to keep a 48V from a mixer and build an adapter XLR --> mini XLR-4P
          >>>
          >>> Thanks
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>> ------------------------------------
          >>>
          >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >> --
          >> ---- Scott Helmke ---- scott@... ---- (734) 604-9340 ----
          >> And you'll visualize not taking any chances
          >> But meet them halfway with love, peace, and persuasion
          >> And expect them to rise to the occasion
          >> (from "Glad Tidings", by Van Morrison)
          >>
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >

          --
          ---- Scott Helmke ---- scott@... ---- (734) 604-9340 ----
          And you'll visualize not taking any chances
          But meet them halfway with love, peace, and persuasion
          And expect them to rise to the occasion
          (from "Glad Tidings", by Van Morrison)









          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • John Bierman
          Joe, The ART and Behringer tube pres: short of swapping the tube the only real mod I have encountered is swapping the opamp. I would be interested to know what
          Message 4 of 15 , Apr 5, 2009
            Joe,

            The ART and Behringer tube pres: short of swapping the tube the only real mod I have encountered is swapping the opamp. I would be interested to know what your findings are.

            John



            --- In micbuilders@yahoogroups.com, Joe Diliberto <loudmusic2@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > Hey all,
            >
            > Love this forum and appreciate it dearly! Wondering if anyone out there mods inexpensive tube mic pres? Please e-mail me at loudmusic2@... if you're interested in taking on a project. Best...JD!
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
            > Join me
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > To: micbuilders@yahoogroups.com
            > From: scott@...
            > Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 09:41:55 -0500
            > Subject: Re: [micbuilders] Re: How to use Proel HCM03
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Giuseppe,
            >
            > I don't have a schematic for this mic or how to interface it. You
            > should be able to open the connector to see how it's wired, and maybe I
            > can help from there.
            >
            > -Scott
            >
            > idprova wrote:
            > > Thanks Scott.
            > >
            > > for avoid mistakes can you (if you have time) make a litle schematics for me? I am shure that microphon can use on SHURE transmitter for wirless system.
            > >
            > > I will use this microphon for amplify a "little girl" that plays Silver Flute during the whoship time in a church.
            > >
            > > I wold like to keep power from a mixer 48V Phantom using an XLR cable.
            > > Is it possible?
            > >
            > > Giuseppe
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In micbuilders@yahoogroups.com, Scott Helmke <scott@> wrote:
            > >> Those sorts of mics tend to be very much like interfacing a simple
            > >> Panasonic WM66 type of capsule - DC voltage down one wire, signal back
            > >> on the other with shared ground. Or you might need to send DC voltage
            > >> and signal on the same wire, but it's not very hard to interface to.
            > >>
            > >> The Shure connector puts DC voltage on one pin and signal on a different
            > >> pin, but many lav mics just put a little resistor in between those
            > >> pins on the connector and have ground (shield) and one signal/bias wire
            > >> back to the capsule itself.
            > >>
            > >> -Scott
            > >>
            > >> idprova wrote:
            > >>> I have a mic like this
            > >>> http://www.proelgroup.com/proel/en/newproducts/product.jsp?id_prod=11858899091500
            > >>>
            > >>> It have a 4-pin miniXLR and can be used with Shure transmitter
            > >>>
            > >>> Have you a schematics for buid a "9V Power supply" litle box with a normal XLR output?
            > >>>
            > >>> Or with a trick, is it possible to keep a 48V from a mixer and build an adapter XLR --> mini XLR-4P
            > >>>
            > >>> Thanks
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >>> ------------------------------------
            > >>>
            > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >> --
            > >> ---- Scott Helmke ---- scott@ ---- (734) 604-9340 ----
            > >> And you'll visualize not taking any chances
            > >> But meet them halfway with love, peace, and persuasion
            > >> And expect them to rise to the occasion
            > >> (from "Glad Tidings", by Van Morrison)
            > >>
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ------------------------------------
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            > --
            > ---- Scott Helmke ---- scott@... ---- (734) 604-9340 ----
            > And you'll visualize not taking any chances
            > But meet them halfway with love, peace, and persuasion
            > And expect them to rise to the occasion
            > (from "Glad Tidings", by Van Morrison)
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Joe Diliberto
            Hi John, Thanks for the response! Getting to the tube is the problem on this unit...it is blocked by soldered in circuit boards. What opamps would I even use
            Message 5 of 15 , Apr 5, 2009
              Hi John,

              Thanks for the response! Getting to the tube is the problem on this unit...it is blocked by soldered in circuit boards. What opamps would I even use on the pre? Best...JD!











              EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
              Join me





              To: micbuilders@yahoogroups.com
              From: handprintsoncavewalls@...
              Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 00:27:05 +0000
              Subject: [micbuilders] Re: Mic pre mods...





              Joe,

              The ART and Behringer tube pres: short of swapping the tube the only real mod I have encountered is swapping the opamp. I would be interested to know what your findings are.

              John

              --- In micbuilders@yahoogroups.com, Joe Diliberto <loudmusic2@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > Hey all,
              >
              > Love this forum and appreciate it dearly! Wondering if anyone out there mods inexpensive tube mic pres? Please e-mail me at loudmusic2@... if you're interested in taking on a project. Best...JD!
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
              > Join me
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > To: micbuilders@yahoogroups.com
              > From: scott@...
              > Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 09:41:55 -0500
              > Subject: Re: [micbuilders] Re: How to use Proel HCM03
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Giuseppe,
              >
              > I don't have a schematic for this mic or how to interface it. You
              > should be able to open the connector to see how it's wired, and maybe I
              > can help from there.
              >
              > -Scott
              >
              > idprova wrote:
              > > Thanks Scott.
              > >
              > > for avoid mistakes can you (if you have time) make a litle schematics for me? I am shure that microphon can use on SHURE transmitter for wirless system.
              > >
              > > I will use this microphon for amplify a "little girl" that plays Silver Flute during the whoship time in a church.
              > >
              > > I wold like to keep power from a mixer 48V Phantom using an XLR cable.
              > > Is it possible?
              > >
              > > Giuseppe
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In micbuilders@yahoogroups.com, Scott Helmke <scott@> wrote:
              > >> Those sorts of mics tend to be very much like interfacing a simple
              > >> Panasonic WM66 type of capsule - DC voltage down one wire, signal back
              > >> on the other with shared ground. Or you might need to send DC voltage
              > >> and signal on the same wire, but it's not very hard to interface to.
              > >>
              > >> The Shure connector puts DC voltage on one pin and signal on a different
              > >> pin, but many lav mics just put a little resistor in between those
              > >> pins on the connector and have ground (shield) and one signal/bias wire
              > >> back to the capsule itself.
              > >>
              > >> -Scott
              > >>
              > >> idprova wrote:
              > >>> I have a mic like this
              > >>> http://www.proelgroup.com/proel/en/newproducts/product.jsp?id_prod=11858899091500
              > >>>
              > >>> It have a 4-pin miniXLR and can be used with Shure transmitter
              > >>>
              > >>> Have you a schematics for buid a "9V Power supply" litle box with a normal XLR output?
              > >>>
              > >>> Or with a trick, is it possible to keep a 48V from a mixer and build an adapter XLR --> mini XLR-4P
              > >>>
              > >>> Thanks
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>> ------------------------------------
              > >>>
              > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >> --
              > >> ---- Scott Helmke ---- scott@ ---- (734) 604-9340 ----
              > >> And you'll visualize not taking any chances
              > >> But meet them halfway with love, peace, and persuasion
              > >> And expect them to rise to the occasion
              > >> (from "Glad Tidings", by Van Morrison)
              > >>
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ------------------------------------
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              > --
              > ---- Scott Helmke ---- scott@... ---- (734) 604-9340 ----
              > And you'll visualize not taking any chances
              > But meet them halfway with love, peace, and persuasion
              > And expect them to rise to the occasion
              > (from "Glad Tidings", by Van Morrison)
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >










              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • churchaudio1
              ... From my perspective its always been pointless to try and remove an ic to improve a circuit. Unless your willing to get in and replace resistors and caps.
              Message 6 of 15 , Apr 6, 2009
                --- In micbuilders@yahoogroups.com, Joe Diliberto <loudmusic2@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > Hi John,
                >
                > Thanks for the response! Getting to the tube is the problem on this unit...it is blocked by soldered in circuit boards. What opamps would I even use on the pre? Best...JD!
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
                > Join me
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > To: micbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                > From: handprintsoncavewalls@...
                > Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 00:27:05 +0000
                > Subject: [micbuilders] Re: Mic pre mods...
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Joe,
                >
                > The ART and Behringer tube pres: short of swapping the tube the only real mod I have encountered is swapping the opamp. I would be interested to know what your findings are.
                >
                > John
                >
                > --- In micbuilders@yahoogroups.com, Joe Diliberto <loudmusic2@> wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > > Hey all,
                > >
                > > Love this forum and appreciate it dearly! Wondering if anyone out there mods inexpensive tube mic pres? Please e-mail me at loudmusic2@ if you're interested in taking on a project. Best...JD!
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
                > > Join me
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > To: micbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                > > From: scott@
                > > Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 09:41:55 -0500
                > > Subject: Re: [micbuilders] Re: How to use Proel HCM03
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Giuseppe,
                > >
                > > I don't have a schematic for this mic or how to interface it. You
                > > should be able to open the connector to see how it's wired, and maybe I
                > > can help from there.
                > >
                > > -Scott
                > >
                > > idprova wrote:
                > > > Thanks Scott.
                > > >
                > > > for avoid mistakes can you (if you have time) make a litle schematics for me? I am shure that microphon can use on SHURE transmitter for wirless system.
                > > >
                > > > I will use this microphon for amplify a "little girl" that plays Silver Flute during the whoship time in a church.
                > > >
                > > > I wold like to keep power from a mixer 48V Phantom using an XLR cable.
                > > > Is it possible?
                > > >
                > > > Giuseppe
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > --- In micbuilders@yahoogroups.com, Scott Helmke <scott@> wrote:
                > > >> Those sorts of mics tend to be very much like interfacing a simple
                > > >> Panasonic WM66 type of capsule - DC voltage down one wire, signal back
                > > >> on the other with shared ground. Or you might need to send DC voltage
                > > >> and signal on the same wire, but it's not very hard to interface to.
                > > >>
                > > >> The Shure connector puts DC voltage on one pin and signal on a different
                > > >> pin, but many lav mics just put a little resistor in between those
                > > >> pins on the connector and have ground (shield) and one signal/bias wire
                > > >> back to the capsule itself.
                > > >>
                > > >> -Scott
                > > >>
                > > >> idprova wrote:
                > > >>> I have a mic like this
                > > >>> http://www.proelgroup.com/proel/en/newproducts/product.jsp?id_prod=11858899091500
                > > >>>
                > > >>> It have a 4-pin miniXLR and can be used with Shure transmitter
                > > >>>
                > > >>> Have you a schematics for buid a "9V Power supply" litle box with a normal XLR output?
                > > >>>
                > > >>> Or with a trick, is it possible to keep a 48V from a mixer and build an adapter XLR --> mini XLR-4P
                > > >>>
                > > >>> Thanks
                > > >>>
                > > >>>
                > > >>>
                > > >>>
                > > >>> ------------------------------------
                > > >>>
                > > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                > > >>>
                > > >>>
                > > >>>
                > > >>>
                > > >> --
                > > >> ---- Scott Helmke ---- scott@ ---- (734) 604-9340 ----
                > > >> And you'll visualize not taking any chances
                > > >> But meet them halfway with love, peace, and persuasion
                > > >> And expect them to rise to the occasion
                > > >> (from "Glad Tidings", by Van Morrison)
                > > >>
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > ------------------------------------
                > > >
                > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > > --
                > > ---- Scott Helmke ---- scott@ ---- (734) 604-9340 ----
                > > And you'll visualize not taking any chances
                > > But meet them halfway with love, peace, and persuasion
                > > And expect them to rise to the occasion
                > > (from "Glad Tidings", by Van Morrison)
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                From my perspective its always been pointless to try and remove an ic to "improve" a circuit. Unless your willing to get in and replace resistors and caps. Most of the tubes in these circuits are not even powered up to the full voltage they require to operate properly. The power supply is not something that can be changed in some of these tube designs with out gutting the whole thing. Too much work better off building from scratch. Any improvement that a change of a ic brings will be minor at best. Any change of a tube will also be minor given the fact that the circuit being used is not really a true tube circuit with high voltage..
              • aataylor7
                ... I m not sure I entirely agree here. There are a number of people who have very strong opinions about different ICs out there. I do agree though that
                Message 7 of 15 , Apr 6, 2009
                  >Any improvement that a change of a ic brings will be minor at best. Any change of a tube will also be minor given the fact that the circuit being used is not really a true tube circuit with high voltage..
                  >

                  I'm not sure I entirely agree here. There are a number of people who have very strong opinions about different ICs out there. I do agree though that dropping in replacement ICs without consideration for bias can be pointless at best.
                  As far as the tube consideration goes, I think there are enormous improvements that are possible. I agree that these hybrid circuits aren't really tube designs through and through, but the signal does still pass through the tube. Further, running a tube in starved plate mode almost makes the quality of the tube more important because you're using it right at the limits of it's design tolerance. If you get a tube that's 20% off spec, then it's really going to make a huge difference in one of these preamps because the bias of the tube is really touchy when the plate only sees 30-35V. Judging from the quality of the Chinese tubes that are getting stuck in these preamps, I expect 20% off-spec is optimistic... I'm not suggesting digging up your NOS Telefunken preamp tubes to spruce up a $100 preamp, but it's worth a little tinkering IMO.

                  On the other hand, I have to agree with any statement that ends by saying people should build their own gear :)
                • Joe Diliberto
                  All great points! Thanks! EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me To: micbuilders@yahoogroups.com From: aataylor7@yahoo.com Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 15:34:52 +0000
                  Message 8 of 15 , Apr 6, 2009
                    All great points! Thanks!









                    EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
                    Join me



                    To: micbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                    From: aataylor7@...
                    Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 15:34:52 +0000
                    Subject: [micbuilders] Re: Mic pre mods...






                    >Any improvement that a change of a ic brings will be minor at best. Any change of a tube will also be minor given the fact that the circuit being used is not really a true tube circuit with high voltage..
                    >

                    I'm not sure I entirely agree here. There are a number of people who have very strong opinions about different ICs out there. I do agree though that dropping in replacement ICs without consideration for bias can be pointless at best.
                    As far as the tube consideration goes, I think there are enormous improvements that are possible. I agree that these hybrid circuits aren't really tube designs through and through, but the signal does still pass through the tube. Further, running a tube in starved plate mode almost makes the quality of the tube more important because you're using it right at the limits of it's design tolerance. If you get a tube that's 20% off spec, then it's really going to make a huge difference in one of these preamps because the bias of the tube is really touchy when the plate only sees 30-35V. Judging from the quality of the Chinese tubes that are getting stuck in these preamps, I expect 20% off-spec is optimistic... I'm not suggesting digging up your NOS Telefunken preamp tubes to spruce up a $100 preamp, but it's worth a little tinkering IMO.

                    On the other hand, I have to agree with any statement that ends by saying people should build their own gear :)










                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Joe Diliberto
                    Sounds nuts, but I actually prefer the sound of the starved tubes. They sound more robust and less sterile. JD! EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me To:
                    Message 9 of 15 , Apr 6, 2009
                      Sounds nuts, but I actually prefer the sound of the starved tubes. They sound more robust and less sterile. JD!









                      EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
                      Join me



                      To: micbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                      From: churchaudio1@...
                      Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 13:26:00 +0000
                      Subject: [micbuilders] Re: Mic pre mods...





                      --- In micbuilders@yahoogroups.com, Joe Diliberto <loudmusic2@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > Hi John,
                      >
                      > Thanks for the response! Getting to the tube is the problem on this unit...it is blocked by soldered in circuit boards. What opamps would I even use on the pre? Best...JD!
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
                      > Join me
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > To: micbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                      > From: handprintsoncavewalls@...
                      > Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 00:27:05 +0000
                      > Subject: [micbuilders] Re: Mic pre mods...
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Joe,
                      >
                      > The ART and Behringer tube pres: short of swapping the tube the only real mod I have encountered is swapping the opamp. I would be interested to know what your findings are.
                      >
                      > John
                      >
                      > --- In micbuilders@yahoogroups.com, Joe Diliberto <loudmusic2@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Hey all,
                      > >
                      > > Love this forum and appreciate it dearly! Wondering if anyone out there mods inexpensive tube mic pres? Please e-mail me at loudmusic2@ if you're interested in taking on a project. Best...JD!
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
                      > > Join me
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > To: micbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                      > > From: scott@
                      > > Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 09:41:55 -0500
                      > > Subject: Re: [micbuilders] Re: How to use Proel HCM03
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Giuseppe,
                      > >
                      > > I don't have a schematic for this mic or how to interface it. You
                      > > should be able to open the connector to see how it's wired, and maybe I
                      > > can help from there.
                      > >
                      > > -Scott
                      > >
                      > > idprova wrote:
                      > > > Thanks Scott.
                      > > >
                      > > > for avoid mistakes can you (if you have time) make a litle schematics for me? I am shure that microphon can use on SHURE transmitter for wirless system.
                      > > >
                      > > > I will use this microphon for amplify a "little girl" that plays Silver Flute during the whoship time in a church.
                      > > >
                      > > > I wold like to keep power from a mixer 48V Phantom using an XLR cable.
                      > > > Is it possible?
                      > > >
                      > > > Giuseppe
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In micbuilders@yahoogroups.com, Scott Helmke <scott@> wrote:
                      > > >> Those sorts of mics tend to be very much like interfacing a simple
                      > > >> Panasonic WM66 type of capsule - DC voltage down one wire, signal back
                      > > >> on the other with shared ground. Or you might need to send DC voltage
                      > > >> and signal on the same wire, but it's not very hard to interface to.
                      > > >>
                      > > >> The Shure connector puts DC voltage on one pin and signal on a different
                      > > >> pin, but many lav mics just put a little resistor in between those
                      > > >> pins on the connector and have ground (shield) and one signal/bias wire
                      > > >> back to the capsule itself.
                      > > >>
                      > > >> -Scott
                      > > >>
                      > > >> idprova wrote:
                      > > >>> I have a mic like this
                      > > >>> http://www.proelgroup.com/proel/en/newproducts/product.jsp?id_prod=11858899091500
                      > > >>>
                      > > >>> It have a 4-pin miniXLR and can be used with Shure transmitter
                      > > >>>
                      > > >>> Have you a schematics for buid a "9V Power supply" litle box with a normal XLR output?
                      > > >>>
                      > > >>> Or with a trick, is it possible to keep a 48V from a mixer and build an adapter XLR --> mini XLR-4P
                      > > >>>
                      > > >>> Thanks
                      > > >>>
                      > > >>>
                      > > >>>
                      > > >>>
                      > > >>> ------------------------------------
                      > > >>>
                      > > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > > >>>
                      > > >>>
                      > > >>>
                      > > >>>
                      > > >> --
                      > > >> ---- Scott Helmke ---- scott@ ---- (734) 604-9340 ----
                      > > >> And you'll visualize not taking any chances
                      > > >> But meet them halfway with love, peace, and persuasion
                      > > >> And expect them to rise to the occasion
                      > > >> (from "Glad Tidings", by Van Morrison)
                      > > >>
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > ------------------------------------
                      > > >
                      > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > --
                      > > ---- Scott Helmke ---- scott@ ---- (734) 604-9340 ----
                      > > And you'll visualize not taking any chances
                      > > But meet them halfway with love, peace, and persuasion
                      > > And expect them to rise to the occasion
                      > > (from "Glad Tidings", by Van Morrison)
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      From my perspective its always been pointless to try and remove an ic to "improve" a circuit. Unless your willing to get in and replace resistors and caps. Most of the tubes in these circuits are not even powered up to the full voltage they require to operate properly. The power supply is not something that can be changed in some of these tube designs with out gutting the whole thing. Too much work better off building from scratch. Any improvement that a change of a ic brings will be minor at best. Any change of a tube will also be minor given the fact that the circuit being used is not really a true tube circuit with high voltage..










                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • John Bierman
                      OK this is a little random, but has anyone considered replacing a starved 12ax7 type tube with a similar but lower wattage subminiature tube like the ones in
                      Message 10 of 15 , Apr 6, 2009
                        OK this is a little random, but has anyone considered replacing a starved 12ax7 type tube with a similar but lower wattage subminiature tube like the ones in ZapNSpark's FrankenTube?

                        -John


                        --- In micbuilders@yahoogroups.com, Joe Diliberto <loudmusic2@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > Sounds nuts, but I actually prefer the sound of the starved tubes. They sound more robust and less sterile. JD!
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
                        > Join me
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > To: micbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                        > From: churchaudio1@...
                        > Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 13:26:00 +0000
                        > Subject: [micbuilders] Re: Mic pre mods...
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In micbuilders@yahoogroups.com, Joe Diliberto <loudmusic2@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Hi John,
                        > >
                        > > Thanks for the response! Getting to the tube is the problem on this unit...it is blocked by soldered in circuit boards. What opamps would I even use on the pre? Best...JD!
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
                        > > Join me
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > To: micbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                        > > From: handprintsoncavewalls@
                        > > Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 00:27:05 +0000
                        > > Subject: [micbuilders] Re: Mic pre mods...
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Joe,
                        > >
                        > > The ART and Behringer tube pres: short of swapping the tube the only real mod I have encountered is swapping the opamp. I would be interested to know what your findings are.
                        > >
                        > > John
                        > >
                        > > --- In micbuilders@yahoogroups.com, Joe Diliberto <loudmusic2@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Hey all,
                        > > >
                        > > > Love this forum and appreciate it dearly! Wondering if anyone out there mods inexpensive tube mic pres? Please e-mail me at loudmusic2@ if you're interested in taking on a project. Best...JD!
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
                        > > > Join me
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > To: micbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > From: scott@
                        > > > Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 09:41:55 -0500
                        > > > Subject: Re: [micbuilders] Re: How to use Proel HCM03
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Giuseppe,
                        > > >
                        > > > I don't have a schematic for this mic or how to interface it. You
                        > > > should be able to open the connector to see how it's wired, and maybe I
                        > > > can help from there.
                        > > >
                        > > > -Scott
                        > > >
                        > > > idprova wrote:
                        > > > > Thanks Scott.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > for avoid mistakes can you (if you have time) make a litle schematics for me? I am shure that microphon can use on SHURE transmitter for wirless system.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I will use this microphon for amplify a "little girl" that plays Silver Flute during the whoship time in a church.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I wold like to keep power from a mixer 48V Phantom using an XLR cable.
                        > > > > Is it possible?
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Giuseppe
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > --- In micbuilders@yahoogroups.com, Scott Helmke <scott@> wrote:
                        > > > >> Those sorts of mics tend to be very much like interfacing a simple
                        > > > >> Panasonic WM66 type of capsule - DC voltage down one wire, signal back
                        > > > >> on the other with shared ground. Or you might need to send DC voltage
                        > > > >> and signal on the same wire, but it's not very hard to interface to.
                        > > > >>
                        > > > >> The Shure connector puts DC voltage on one pin and signal on a different
                        > > > >> pin, but many lav mics just put a little resistor in between those
                        > > > >> pins on the connector and have ground (shield) and one signal/bias wire
                        > > > >> back to the capsule itself.
                        > > > >>
                        > > > >> -Scott
                        > > > >>
                        > > > >> idprova wrote:
                        > > > >>> I have a mic like this
                        > > > >>> http://www.proelgroup.com/proel/en/newproducts/product.jsp?id_prod=11858899091500
                        > > > >>>
                        > > > >>> It have a 4-pin miniXLR and can be used with Shure transmitter
                        > > > >>>
                        > > > >>> Have you a schematics for buid a "9V Power supply" litle box with a normal XLR output?
                        > > > >>>
                        > > > >>> Or with a trick, is it possible to keep a 48V from a mixer and build an adapter XLR --> mini XLR-4P
                        > > > >>>
                        > > > >>> Thanks
                        > > > >>>
                        > > > >>>
                        > > > >>>
                        > > > >>>
                        > > > >>> ------------------------------------
                        > > > >>>
                        > > > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > > > >>>
                        > > > >>>
                        > > > >>>
                        > > > >>>
                        > > > >> --
                        > > > >> ---- Scott Helmke ---- scott@ ---- (734) 604-9340 ----
                        > > > >> And you'll visualize not taking any chances
                        > > > >> But meet them halfway with love, peace, and persuasion
                        > > > >> And expect them to rise to the occasion
                        > > > >> (from "Glad Tidings", by Van Morrison)
                        > > > >>
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > ------------------------------------
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > --
                        > > > ---- Scott Helmke ---- scott@ ---- (734) 604-9340 ----
                        > > > And you'll visualize not taking any chances
                        > > > But meet them halfway with love, peace, and persuasion
                        > > > And expect them to rise to the occasion
                        > > > (from "Glad Tidings", by Van Morrison)
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        > From my perspective its always been pointless to try and remove an ic to "improve" a circuit. Unless your willing to get in and replace resistors and caps. Most of the tubes in these circuits are not even powered up to the full voltage they require to operate properly. The power supply is not something that can be changed in some of these tube designs with out gutting the whole thing. Too much work better off building from scratch. Any improvement that a change of a ic brings will be minor at best. Any change of a tube will also be minor given the fact that the circuit being used is not really a true tube circuit with high voltage..
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • Joe Diliberto
                        Like a 12AY7? JD! EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me To: micbuilders@yahoogroups.com From: handprintsoncavewalls@yahoo.com Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 04:17:57
                        Message 11 of 15 , Apr 6, 2009
                          Like a 12AY7? JD!









                          EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
                          Join me



                          To: micbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                          From: handprintsoncavewalls@...
                          Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 04:17:57 +0000
                          Subject: [micbuilders] Re: Mic pre mods...





                          OK this is a little random, but has anyone considered replacing a starved 12ax7 type tube with a similar but lower wattage subminiature tube like the ones in ZapNSpark's FrankenTube?

                          -John

                          --- In micbuilders@yahoogroups.com, Joe Diliberto <loudmusic2@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > Sounds nuts, but I actually prefer the sound of the starved tubes. They sound more robust and less sterile. JD!
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
                          > Join me
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > To: micbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                          > From: churchaudio1@...
                          > Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 13:26:00 +0000
                          > Subject: [micbuilders] Re: Mic pre mods...
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In micbuilders@yahoogroups.com, Joe Diliberto <loudmusic2@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Hi John,
                          > >
                          > > Thanks for the response! Getting to the tube is the problem on this unit...it is blocked by soldered in circuit boards. What opamps would I even use on the pre? Best...JD!
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
                          > > Join me
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > To: micbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                          > > From: handprintsoncavewalls@
                          > > Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 00:27:05 +0000
                          > > Subject: [micbuilders] Re: Mic pre mods...
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Joe,
                          > >
                          > > The ART and Behringer tube pres: short of swapping the tube the only real mod I have encountered is swapping the opamp. I would be interested to know what your findings are.
                          > >
                          > > John
                          > >
                          > > --- In micbuilders@yahoogroups.com, Joe Diliberto <loudmusic2@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > Hey all,
                          > > >
                          > > > Love this forum and appreciate it dearly! Wondering if anyone out there mods inexpensive tube mic pres? Please e-mail me at loudmusic2@ if you're interested in taking on a project. Best...JD!
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
                          > > > Join me
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > To: micbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > From: scott@
                          > > > Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 09:41:55 -0500
                          > > > Subject: Re: [micbuilders] Re: How to use Proel HCM03
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > Giuseppe,
                          > > >
                          > > > I don't have a schematic for this mic or how to interface it. You
                          > > > should be able to open the connector to see how it's wired, and maybe I
                          > > > can help from there.
                          > > >
                          > > > -Scott
                          > > >
                          > > > idprova wrote:
                          > > > > Thanks Scott.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > for avoid mistakes can you (if you have time) make a litle schematics for me? I am shure that microphon can use on SHURE transmitter for wirless system.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > I will use this microphon for amplify a "little girl" that plays Silver Flute during the whoship time in a church.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > I wold like to keep power from a mixer 48V Phantom using an XLR cable.
                          > > > > Is it possible?
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Giuseppe
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > --- In micbuilders@yahoogroups.com, Scott Helmke <scott@> wrote:
                          > > > >> Those sorts of mics tend to be very much like interfacing a simple
                          > > > >> Panasonic WM66 type of capsule - DC voltage down one wire, signal back
                          > > > >> on the other with shared ground. Or you might need to send DC voltage
                          > > > >> and signal on the same wire, but it's not very hard to interface to.
                          > > > >>
                          > > > >> The Shure connector puts DC voltage on one pin and signal on a different
                          > > > >> pin, but many lav mics just put a little resistor in between those
                          > > > >> pins on the connector and have ground (shield) and one signal/bias wire
                          > > > >> back to the capsule itself.
                          > > > >>
                          > > > >> -Scott
                          > > > >>
                          > > > >> idprova wrote:
                          > > > >>> I have a mic like this
                          > > > >>> http://www.proelgroup.com/proel/en/newproducts/product.jsp?id_prod=11858899091500
                          > > > >>>
                          > > > >>> It have a 4-pin miniXLR and can be used with Shure transmitter
                          > > > >>>
                          > > > >>> Have you a schematics for buid a "9V Power supply" litle box with a normal XLR output?
                          > > > >>>
                          > > > >>> Or with a trick, is it possible to keep a 48V from a mixer and build an adapter XLR --> mini XLR-4P
                          > > > >>>
                          > > > >>> Thanks
                          > > > >>>
                          > > > >>>
                          > > > >>>
                          > > > >>>
                          > > > >>> ------------------------------------
                          > > > >>>
                          > > > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > > > >>>
                          > > > >>>
                          > > > >>>
                          > > > >>>
                          > > > >> --
                          > > > >> ---- Scott Helmke ---- scott@ ---- (734) 604-9340 ----
                          > > > >> And you'll visualize not taking any chances
                          > > > >> But meet them halfway with love, peace, and persuasion
                          > > > >> And expect them to rise to the occasion
                          > > > >> (from "Glad Tidings", by Van Morrison)
                          > > > >>
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > ------------------------------------
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > --
                          > > > ---- Scott Helmke ---- scott@ ---- (734) 604-9340 ----
                          > > > And you'll visualize not taking any chances
                          > > > But meet them halfway with love, peace, and persuasion
                          > > > And expect them to rise to the occasion
                          > > > (from "Glad Tidings", by Van Morrison)
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >
                          > From my perspective its always been pointless to try and remove an ic to "improve" a circuit. Unless your willing to get in and replace resistors and caps. Most of the tubes in these circuits are not even powered up to the full voltage they require to operate properly. The power supply is not something that can be changed in some of these tube designs with out gutting the whole thing. Too much work better off building from scratch. Any improvement that a change of a ic brings will be minor at best. Any change of a tube will also be minor given the fact that the circuit being used is not really a true tube circuit with high voltage..
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >










                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • archie
                          Hello Everyone It could likely be done but, it would be quite a bit of work to do. First off there is the issue of the filament voltage. The tube from the
                          Message 12 of 15 , Apr 7, 2009
                            Hello Everyone

                            It could likely be done but, it would be quite a bit of work to do. First off there is the issue of the filament voltage. The tube from the franken tube runs at 1.5 volts. The 12AX7 can run at either 6.3 or 12.6 volts. There are others that may be better picks. I do have some sub mini pentodes that run at 6.3 volts for the filament. Secondly, The 12A family (12AX7, 12AU7, 12AV7, 12AT7, 12AY7, 5781, 6072, etc.) are dual triodes. I don't know if they use both triode sections or not. I've looked inside an ART MP but, not carefully enough to trace it out. If they do use both triode sections you would have to use two of the sub minis to make it work. Thirdly is the issue of plate voltage. Most of these "starved plate" mic pres use a voltage multiplier to get the plates up to around 40 volts. This is low for the 12A family but not for many of these sub mini tubes. Most of the sub mini tube were designed for battery operation. Many have maximum plate voltages of 20 or 30 volts. I may be possible to exceed this in some of the "starved plate" designs. Lastly, The "starved plate" design exaggerates the tube character, If you use a tube that is running in its linear range you will likely find that it loses some of its "tuby-ness" for lack of a better word. These mic pres always sounded like a cartoon of a good tube mic pre to me. That is they get some of the character but are lacking in detail. By good I mean things like Ampex 351, Ampex MX-10, Old Altec, Etc. On the plus side, these "starved plate" mic pres are cheap enough that you can buy 3 or 4 of them and try different tubes and the like. If they fail, you're not out much.

                            Just my 2 cents

                            Remember, You will never save money trying to build your own gear unless you want to make a lot of the same thing. You will however learn lots!

                            Archie





                            --- In micbuilders@yahoogroups.com, "John Bierman" <handprintsoncavewalls@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > OK this is a little random, but has anyone considered replacing a starved 12ax7 type tube with a similar but lower wattage subminiature tube like the ones in ZapNSpark's FrankenTube?
                            >
                            > -John
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In micbuilders@yahoogroups.com, Joe Diliberto <loudmusic2@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Sounds nuts, but I actually prefer the sound of the starved tubes. They sound more robust and less sterile. JD!
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
                            > > Join me
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > To: micbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                            > > From: churchaudio1@
                            > > Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 13:26:00 +0000
                            > > Subject: [micbuilders] Re: Mic pre mods...
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > --- In micbuilders@yahoogroups.com, Joe Diliberto <loudmusic2@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > Hi John,
                            > > >
                            > > > Thanks for the response! Getting to the tube is the problem on this unit...it is blocked by soldered in circuit boards. What opamps would I even use on the pre? Best...JD!
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
                            > > > Join me
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > To: micbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > From: handprintsoncavewalls@
                            > > > Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 00:27:05 +0000
                            > > > Subject: [micbuilders] Re: Mic pre mods...
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > Joe,
                            > > >
                            > > > The ART and Behringer tube pres: short of swapping the tube the only real mod I have encountered is swapping the opamp. I would be interested to know what your findings are.
                            > > >
                            > > > John
                            > > >
                            > > > --- In micbuilders@yahoogroups.com, Joe Diliberto <loudmusic2@> wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Hey all,
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Love this forum and appreciate it dearly! Wondering if anyone out there mods inexpensive tube mic pres? Please e-mail me at loudmusic2@ if you're interested in taking on a project. Best...JD!
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
                            > > > > Join me
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > To: micbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > > From: scott@
                            > > > > Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 09:41:55 -0500
                            > > > > Subject: Re: [micbuilders] Re: How to use Proel HCM03
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Giuseppe,
                            > > > >
                            > > > > I don't have a schematic for this mic or how to interface it. You
                            > > > > should be able to open the connector to see how it's wired, and maybe I
                            > > > > can help from there.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > -Scott
                            > > > >
                            > > > > idprova wrote:
                            > > > > > Thanks Scott.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > for avoid mistakes can you (if you have time) make a litle schematics for me? I am shure that microphon can use on SHURE transmitter for wirless system.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > I will use this microphon for amplify a "little girl" that plays Silver Flute during the whoship time in a church.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > I wold like to keep power from a mixer 48V Phantom using an XLR cable.
                            > > > > > Is it possible?
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Giuseppe
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > --- In micbuilders@yahoogroups.com, Scott Helmke <scott@> wrote:
                            > > > > >> Those sorts of mics tend to be very much like interfacing a simple
                            > > > > >> Panasonic WM66 type of capsule - DC voltage down one wire, signal back
                            > > > > >> on the other with shared ground. Or you might need to send DC voltage
                            > > > > >> and signal on the same wire, but it's not very hard to interface to.
                            > > > > >>
                            > > > > >> The Shure connector puts DC voltage on one pin and signal on a different
                            > > > > >> pin, but many lav mics just put a little resistor in between those
                            > > > > >> pins on the connector and have ground (shield) and one signal/bias wire
                            > > > > >> back to the capsule itself.
                            > > > > >>
                            > > > > >> -Scott
                            > > > > >>
                            > > > > >> idprova wrote:
                            > > > > >>> I have a mic like this
                            > > > > >>> http://www.proelgroup.com/proel/en/newproducts/product.jsp?id_prod=11858899091500
                            > > > > >>>
                            > > > > >>> It have a 4-pin miniXLR and can be used with Shure transmitter
                            > > > > >>>
                            > > > > >>> Have you a schematics for buid a "9V Power supply" litle box with a normal XLR output?
                            > > > > >>>
                            > > > > >>> Or with a trick, is it possible to keep a 48V from a mixer and build an adapter XLR --> mini XLR-4P
                            > > > > >>>
                            > > > > >>> Thanks
                            > > > > >>>
                            > > > > >>>
                            > > > > >>>
                            > > > > >>>
                            > > > > >>> ------------------------------------
                            > > > > >>>
                            > > > > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > > > > >>>
                            > > > > >>>
                            > > > > >>>
                            > > > > >>>
                            > > > > >> --
                            > > > > >> ---- Scott Helmke ---- scott@ ---- (734) 604-9340 ----
                            > > > > >> And you'll visualize not taking any chances
                            > > > > >> But meet them halfway with love, peace, and persuasion
                            > > > > >> And expect them to rise to the occasion
                            > > > > >> (from "Glad Tidings", by Van Morrison)
                            > > > > >>
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > ------------------------------------
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > --
                            > > > > ---- Scott Helmke ---- scott@ ---- (734) 604-9340 ----
                            > > > > And you'll visualize not taking any chances
                            > > > > But meet them halfway with love, peace, and persuasion
                            > > > > And expect them to rise to the occasion
                            > > > > (from "Glad Tidings", by Van Morrison)
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > > >
                            > > From my perspective its always been pointless to try and remove an ic to "improve" a circuit. Unless your willing to get in and replace resistors and caps. Most of the tubes in these circuits are not even powered up to the full voltage they require to operate properly. The power supply is not something that can be changed in some of these tube designs with out gutting the whole thing. Too much work better off building from scratch. Any improvement that a change of a ic brings will be minor at best. Any change of a tube will also be minor given the fact that the circuit being used is not really a true tube circuit with high voltage..
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >
                            >
                          • archie
                            Hello Everyone Just for the record, The 12AY7 is not a sub mini tube of the type used in franken tube. It is the consumer labeled version of the 6072. Its a
                            Message 13 of 15 , Apr 7, 2009
                              Hello Everyone

                              Just for the record, The 12AY7 is not a sub mini tube of the type used in franken tube. It is the consumer labeled version of the 6072. Its a good tube to have around and should be close to a plug in replacement for the 12AX7. It has slightly less gain (70 vs 100) than a 12AX7 but it has much lower capacitance making it a better pick for RF and head amp applications. I have a small stash of older 6072s and 12AY7s (Sorry, I'm not parting with them) that I have used to upgrade the performance of several modern tube mics. The 12AY7 and the 6072 do not sound very different but the 6072 is noticeably less microphonic regardless of brand.


                              --- In micbuilders@yahoogroups.com, Joe Diliberto <loudmusic2@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > Like a 12AY7? JD!
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
                              > Join me
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > To: micbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                              > From: handprintsoncavewalls@...
                              > Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 04:17:57 +0000
                              > Subject: [micbuilders] Re: Mic pre mods...
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > OK this is a little random, but has anyone considered replacing a starved 12ax7 type tube with a similar but lower wattage subminiature tube like the ones in ZapNSpark's FrankenTube?
                              >
                              > -John
                              >
                              > --- In micbuilders@yahoogroups.com, Joe Diliberto <loudmusic2@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Sounds nuts, but I actually prefer the sound of the starved tubes. They sound more robust and less sterile. JD!
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
                              > > Join me
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > To: micbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                              > > From: churchaudio1@
                              > > Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 13:26:00 +0000
                              > > Subject: [micbuilders] Re: Mic pre mods...
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > --- In micbuilders@yahoogroups.com, Joe Diliberto <loudmusic2@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > Hi John,
                              > > >
                              > > > Thanks for the response! Getting to the tube is the problem on this unit...it is blocked by soldered in circuit boards. What opamps would I even use on the pre? Best...JD!
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
                              > > > Join me
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > To: micbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > From: handprintsoncavewalls@
                              > > > Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 00:27:05 +0000
                              > > > Subject: [micbuilders] Re: Mic pre mods...
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > Joe,
                              > > >
                              > > > The ART and Behringer tube pres: short of swapping the tube the only real mod I have encountered is swapping the opamp. I would be interested to know what your findings are.
                              > > >
                              > > > John
                              > > >
                              > > > --- In micbuilders@yahoogroups.com, Joe Diliberto <loudmusic2@> wrote:
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Hey all,
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Love this forum and appreciate it dearly! Wondering if anyone out there mods inexpensive tube mic pres? Please e-mail me at loudmusic2@ if you're interested in taking on a project. Best...JD!
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
                              > > > > Join me
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > To: micbuilders@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > > From: scott@
                              > > > > Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 09:41:55 -0500
                              > > > > Subject: Re: [micbuilders] Re: How to use Proel HCM03
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Giuseppe,
                              > > > >
                              > > > > I don't have a schematic for this mic or how to interface it. You
                              > > > > should be able to open the connector to see how it's wired, and maybe I
                              > > > > can help from there.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > -Scott
                              > > > >
                              > > > > idprova wrote:
                              > > > > > Thanks Scott.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > for avoid mistakes can you (if you have time) make a litle schematics for me? I am shure that microphon can use on SHURE transmitter for wirless system.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > I will use this microphon for amplify a "little girl" that plays Silver Flute during the whoship time in a church.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > I wold like to keep power from a mixer 48V Phantom using an XLR cable.
                              > > > > > Is it possible?
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Giuseppe
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > --- In micbuilders@yahoogroups.com, Scott Helmke <scott@> wrote:
                              > > > > >> Those sorts of mics tend to be very much like interfacing a simple
                              > > > > >> Panasonic WM66 type of capsule - DC voltage down one wire, signal back
                              > > > > >> on the other with shared ground. Or you might need to send DC voltage
                              > > > > >> and signal on the same wire, but it's not very hard to interface to.
                              > > > > >>
                              > > > > >> The Shure connector puts DC voltage on one pin and signal on a different
                              > > > > >> pin, but many lav mics just put a little resistor in between those
                              > > > > >> pins on the connector and have ground (shield) and one signal/bias wire
                              > > > > >> back to the capsule itself.
                              > > > > >>
                              > > > > >> -Scott
                              > > > > >>
                              > > > > >> idprova wrote:
                              > > > > >>> I have a mic like this
                              > > > > >>> http://www.proelgroup.com/proel/en/newproducts/product.jsp?id_prod=11858899091500
                              > > > > >>>
                              > > > > >>> It have a 4-pin miniXLR and can be used with Shure transmitter
                              > > > > >>>
                              > > > > >>> Have you a schematics for buid a "9V Power supply" litle box with a normal XLR output?
                              > > > > >>>
                              > > > > >>> Or with a trick, is it possible to keep a 48V from a mixer and build an adapter XLR --> mini XLR-4P
                              > > > > >>>
                              > > > > >>> Thanks
                              > > > > >>>
                              > > > > >>>
                              > > > > >>>
                              > > > > >>>
                              > > > > >>> ------------------------------------
                              > > > > >>>
                              > > > > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                              > > > > >>>
                              > > > > >>>
                              > > > > >>>
                              > > > > >>>
                              > > > > >> --
                              > > > > >> ---- Scott Helmke ---- scott@ ---- (734) 604-9340 ----
                              > > > > >> And you'll visualize not taking any chances
                              > > > > >> But meet them halfway with love, peace, and persuasion
                              > > > > >> And expect them to rise to the occasion
                              > > > > >> (from "Glad Tidings", by Van Morrison)
                              > > > > >>
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > ------------------------------------
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > --
                              > > > > ---- Scott Helmke ---- scott@ ---- (734) 604-9340 ----
                              > > > > And you'll visualize not taking any chances
                              > > > > But meet them halfway with love, peace, and persuasion
                              > > > > And expect them to rise to the occasion
                              > > > > (from "Glad Tidings", by Van Morrison)
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > > >
                              > > From my perspective its always been pointless to try and remove an ic to "improve" a circuit. Unless your willing to get in and replace resistors and caps. Most of the tubes in these circuits are not even powered up to the full voltage they require to operate properly. The power supply is not something that can be changed in some of these tube designs with out gutting the whole thing. Too much work better off building from scratch. Any improvement that a change of a ic brings will be minor at best. Any change of a tube will also be minor given the fact that the circuit being used is not really a true tube circuit with high voltage..
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
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