Re: It's all electrical baby
- View SourceYou said "Conversely, with warmer oceans, this has electrically
resulted in the past few months that the Southern Ocean both melts
glaciers and produces cold SSTs from the cirrus behavior. And when
these warmer oceans get to moving west to east, as in off the coast
of California, they reduce cirrus strongly, cool SSTs, and dry things
out. California has received record low rainfall, consistant with
Could the warmer SST along the Antartic that are melting the ice
cause in increase in freshwater overlying the saltwater and thus
reducing the inflow of warmer surface currents from the north?
There are two primary reasons why I doubt that the melting glaciers
present a fresh water capping issue that "blocks" the Pacific gyre.
This is consistant with the so-called conveyor belt theory
popularized by Professor William Calvin of Washington University in
Atlantic Monthly. The first reason is that the leading scholar
pushing this theory, Dr. Warren B. White of Scripps in 1999 dropped
his research following ENSO and all his papers were no longer
online. Then he started to study cloud behavior in India, focusing
on very complex cloud albedo models. In short, I think he too
thought it was about clouds. The second reason is speed. The
salinity wave moves very slowly if it moved just by diffusion and
mixing. At the same time, he noted a coupling of pressures and
salinity and temperatures, with interactions with the glacial ice,
but like I said, he seemed unsatisfied with his own results in terms
of explaining El Nino. The electrical explaination not only gives
the speed required to match the SSTs, but also links temperture and
salinity with pressures--namely because the more conductive the water
by being warm the more cirrus are reduced down wind from there, so
you will have these persistant alternating salty and warm and cold
and diluted patches he describes--including the interactions with the
ice sheets. IOW, electrical movements of cirrus explains his
findings--poor man gave up on himself. I emailed him and urged him
to join our yahoo group but he wasn't apparently interested or
thought Gaia was valid.
Another thing that has to be mentioned here. The Southern Ocean has
some life from the "upwellings" but doesn't have river sources of
biological materials. But if you think about, say, the N. Atlantic,
it is the ocean with the most rivers--yet is warmer and more saline
than the Pacific! Why? Gaia, of course. The rivers cause more
water to be taken from the Atlantic--because of the biological
material insulating the ocean bottoms.
You said "The west to east moving part of the gyres, especially the
N. Pacific, can also be seen to move AGAINST the cirrus,
electrically, LESS, producing the warm SSTs and then the storms of
the Pine apple."..
You lost me here since the currents flow from off the California
coast towards Hawaii (from the East towards the West)??
I would be lost too if not familiar w/ the gyres. Stommel is the big
researcher here of import, but there is also Eichmann and others.
One interesting scholar on this subject is none other than Ben
Franklin, who discovered the Gulf Stream when investigating why
English mails were coming late, and American fishermen explained it
to him and he documented their comments. But later it was proved
that the Gulf Steam was part of a 'gyre', meaning it had a circular
path. That was done by Prince Ranier's grandfather, who put
thousands of bottles out into the N. Atlantic in 10 languages with
instructions to mail the letters inside the bottles! The bottles
moved in a circle. Okay, here is the catch. While the gyre moves in
a circle, it is more of a spiraling path. What we are really
discussing is a bulge of about 4 feet mid ocean, off center west,
with the current on the surface moving "downhill". Coriolis right
turns this and you get a circular deal. BUT, essentially, half of
the gyre is moving the downhill direction from the center. Hence,
there is indeed a current moving generally SW, in reality we are
talking about a quadrant of surface currents moving SE, with coriolis
right turning that current. Get it? That is why the most cirrus
reduction, in terms of current direction, is in the NW quadrant of
the gyres, while the most enhancment is in the SE quadrant. That
said, these respective quadrants are warmer to the NW and colder to
the SE because of their paths from and to the equatorial waters . . .
You said "when currents and winds are sustained they induct a field
that sustains cirrus, feedsback IR levels that in turn warm oceans
and increases precip.
This requires, per Fleming's rule, that the currents and winds are in
the east to west direction for electrical enhancement, where a vector
of electrons rises upward out of the ocean."...
The normal (non El Nino)flow of currents and wind in the tropics for
the most part is from East towards the West. Are you talking about
the normal conditions here? or did you mean West towards the East?
This is more complex so that you have to break it down so you can see
what we are talking about electrically. The gyres move currents per
Coriolis in this right turning manner from the gyre's top center,
which is off centered west. I suspect that this movement is
conceptually from the fact that the tropics are warmest, and, hence,
as the air expands it spreads from the tropics with a Coriolis
twist. That gives you the gyres. But the equatorial is a
countercurrent to the gyres tropical edges. Now, the coriolis
movement also generally will move the warmest WATERS west. That is
why the West Pacific is warmer than the East Pacific. BUT, the
counter current moves still warmer WATERS . . . EAST.
NOW, enter winds. The SOI. This is the kicker because it shows how
it is electrical and not about SSTs and thermodynamics. If the winds
are moving from west to east, or the SOI is positive, the counter
current will be enhanced. That counter intuitively means SSTs in the
EAST cool! Why? Because the counter current, with these warm,
electrically conductive currents, with the winds moving west to east
is going to be even stronger and this means induction AGAINST cirrus,
and electrically, cirrus are reduced in there to the east. OTOH, if
the SOI is negitive, or blowing east to west, the counter current is
going to be reduced AND, please read carefully and slowly, the
gyres, which are not just about the part that coriolis turned east to
west along the North and South Equatorial, but about the movement SE
from the North gyre and NE from South gyre, that coriolis turns.
That means that an expanding pressure from the Eastern Pacific will
blow AGAINST cirrus REDUCTION. It will heat up the El Nino waters--
electrically, especially if sustained enough to alter the gyres
But what CAUSES the SOI? Enter the sun. Ion particles sorted by
SSTs and winds derived therefrom--that move the IR balances and the
balances of air pressures. That is why flaring patterns can be
predictive of the SOI and hence ENSO itself.