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Re: It's all electrical baby

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  • pawnfart
    You said Conversely, with warmer oceans, this has electrically resulted in the past few months that the Southern Ocean both melts glaciers and produces cold
    Message 1 of 5 , Jun 6, 2002
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      You said "Conversely, with warmer oceans, this has electrically
      resulted in the past few months that the Southern Ocean both melts
      glaciers and produces cold SSTs from the cirrus behavior. And when
      these warmer oceans get to moving west to east, as in off the coast
      of California, they reduce cirrus strongly, cool SSTs, and dry things
      out. California has received record low rainfall, consistant with
      this notion."

      Could the warmer SST along the Antartic that are melting the ice
      cause in increase in freshwater overlying the saltwater and thus
      reducing the inflow of warmer surface currents from the north?

      +++

      There are two primary reasons why I doubt that the melting glaciers
      present a fresh water capping issue that "blocks" the Pacific gyre.
      This is consistant with the so-called conveyor belt theory
      popularized by Professor William Calvin of Washington University in
      Atlantic Monthly. The first reason is that the leading scholar
      pushing this theory, Dr. Warren B. White of Scripps in 1999 dropped
      his research following ENSO and all his papers were no longer
      online. Then he started to study cloud behavior in India, focusing
      on very complex cloud albedo models. In short, I think he too
      thought it was about clouds. The second reason is speed. The
      salinity wave moves very slowly if it moved just by diffusion and
      mixing. At the same time, he noted a coupling of pressures and
      salinity and temperatures, with interactions with the glacial ice,
      but like I said, he seemed unsatisfied with his own results in terms
      of explaining El Nino. The electrical explaination not only gives
      the speed required to match the SSTs, but also links temperture and
      salinity with pressures--namely because the more conductive the water
      by being warm the more cirrus are reduced down wind from there, so
      you will have these persistant alternating salty and warm and cold
      and diluted patches he describes--including the interactions with the
      ice sheets. IOW, electrical movements of cirrus explains his
      findings--poor man gave up on himself. I emailed him and urged him
      to join our yahoo group but he wasn't apparently interested or
      thought Gaia was valid.

      Another thing that has to be mentioned here. The Southern Ocean has
      some life from the "upwellings" but doesn't have river sources of
      biological materials. But if you think about, say, the N. Atlantic,
      it is the ocean with the most rivers--yet is warmer and more saline
      than the Pacific! Why? Gaia, of course. The rivers cause more
      water to be taken from the Atlantic--because of the biological
      material insulating the ocean bottoms.

      ==========

      You said "The west to east moving part of the gyres, especially the
      N. Pacific, can also be seen to move AGAINST the cirrus,
      electrically, LESS, producing the warm SSTs and then the storms of
      the Pine apple."..

      You lost me here since the currents flow from off the California
      coast towards Hawaii (from the East towards the West)??

      +++

      I would be lost too if not familiar w/ the gyres. Stommel is the big
      researcher here of import, but there is also Eichmann and others.
      One interesting scholar on this subject is none other than Ben
      Franklin, who discovered the Gulf Stream when investigating why
      English mails were coming late, and American fishermen explained it
      to him and he documented their comments. But later it was proved
      that the Gulf Steam was part of a 'gyre', meaning it had a circular
      path. That was done by Prince Ranier's grandfather, who put
      thousands of bottles out into the N. Atlantic in 10 languages with
      instructions to mail the letters inside the bottles! The bottles
      moved in a circle. Okay, here is the catch. While the gyre moves in
      a circle, it is more of a spiraling path. What we are really
      discussing is a bulge of about 4 feet mid ocean, off center west,
      with the current on the surface moving "downhill". Coriolis right
      turns this and you get a circular deal. BUT, essentially, half of
      the gyre is moving the downhill direction from the center. Hence,
      there is indeed a current moving generally SW, in reality we are
      talking about a quadrant of surface currents moving SE, with coriolis
      right turning that current. Get it? That is why the most cirrus
      reduction, in terms of current direction, is in the NW quadrant of
      the gyres, while the most enhancment is in the SE quadrant. That
      said, these respective quadrants are warmer to the NW and colder to
      the SE because of their paths from and to the equatorial waters . . .

      ===========

      You said "when currents and winds are sustained they induct a field
      that sustains cirrus, feedsback IR levels that in turn warm oceans
      and increases precip.

      This requires, per Fleming's rule, that the currents and winds are in
      the east to west direction for electrical enhancement, where a vector
      of electrons rises upward out of the ocean."...

      The normal (non El Nino)flow of currents and wind in the tropics for
      the most part is from East towards the West. Are you talking about
      the normal conditions here? or did you mean West towards the East?

      ++++

      This is more complex so that you have to break it down so you can see
      what we are talking about electrically. The gyres move currents per
      Coriolis in this right turning manner from the gyre's top center,
      which is off centered west. I suspect that this movement is
      conceptually from the fact that the tropics are warmest, and, hence,
      as the air expands it spreads from the tropics with a Coriolis
      twist. That gives you the gyres. But the equatorial is a
      countercurrent to the gyres tropical edges. Now, the coriolis
      movement also generally will move the warmest WATERS west. That is
      why the West Pacific is warmer than the East Pacific. BUT, the
      counter current moves still warmer WATERS . . . EAST.

      NOW, enter winds. The SOI. This is the kicker because it shows how
      it is electrical and not about SSTs and thermodynamics. If the winds
      are moving from west to east, or the SOI is positive, the counter
      current will be enhanced. That counter intuitively means SSTs in the
      EAST cool! Why? Because the counter current, with these warm,
      electrically conductive currents, with the winds moving west to east
      is going to be even stronger and this means induction AGAINST cirrus,
      and electrically, cirrus are reduced in there to the east. OTOH, if
      the SOI is negitive, or blowing east to west, the counter current is
      going to be reduced AND, please read carefully and slowly, the
      gyres, which are not just about the part that coriolis turned east to
      west along the North and South Equatorial, but about the movement SE
      from the North gyre and NE from South gyre, that coriolis turns.
      That means that an expanding pressure from the Eastern Pacific will
      blow AGAINST cirrus REDUCTION. It will heat up the El Nino waters--
      electrically, especially if sustained enough to alter the gyres
      surface movements.

      But what CAUSES the SOI? Enter the sun. Ion particles sorted by
      SSTs and winds derived therefrom--that move the IR balances and the
      balances of air pressures. That is why flaring patterns can be
      predictive of the SOI and hence ENSO itself.
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