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  • pawnfart
    ... the ... While Fred and I don t see I to eye on Lindzen s failure to include direction of current into his analysis, this isn t the only area where I see
    Message 1 of 6 , May 24, 2002
      --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
      > I tend to agree with Mike except I have yet to be convinced that
      > feedback with methane hydrates is electrical.

      While Fred and I don't see I to eye on Lindzen's failure to include
      direction of current into his analysis, this isn't the only area
      where I see electrical processes, from the movement of the QBO, the
      mechanism of the monsoons and coriolis right turning cold air from
      the mountains, to even something like the difference ELECTRICALLY
      from a typical run of the mile tropical storm and a 'cane with a pin
      hole. I could go on and on. But where I really find my assumptive
      roots is in genetic evidence.

      In the wake of Crick and Watson's work on DNA, it becomes difficult
      to distinguish between life and non-life. The reason feedback loops
      are interesting in this context is that it helps to define the
      symbiotic relationship man should have with the biosphere in order to
      survive himself, as well as the evolutionary context of Gaia and how
      just looking at the relationships we see in genes with life that
      exists now we can tell a great deal about climate over the timescales
      that are meaningful. That is because if feedback loops overlap and
      are in conflict, or not symbiotic, then that genetic aspect will not
      be expressed as that part of the biosphere which lost out.

      What is most interesting is the research by Olsen et al research
      (tree of life mapping by genes) about the archae-the methanogens,
      salt lovers--haliophiles, and sulfur loving archae. What the studies
      have shown, like Olsen and so forth, is genetic distance that
      indicates degree of symbiotic relationships that MUST exist given the
      MASSIVE timescales between life that is genetically close.

      There are fields of hydrates and areas in the ocean of biological
      activity. There are prevailing currents and places where up welling
      occurs, where a food chain starts and rots. That these fields have
      mil timescale of substantial variability. And then there is the idea
      of pH and O2 content in the "dead zone". All modulated.

      How is this modulation demostrated genetically over long timescales?
      There are always electrical variabile signals from the sun or other
      changes to the ecology in the oceans, the hydrate fields, the dead
      zones, that require that the feedbacks of electrical insulation
      evolve by how they alter hydrology toward conditions that favor
      them. So, essentially, you have pH, temperature, salinity, hydrology
      all varied electrically by the sequential methane hydrate field
      insulation values. What the Olsen research shows is genetic distance
      between the archae, for
      instance, with the salt loving closer then the sulfur loving to the
      methanogens. This makes sense because the hydrology feedbacks as
      favor biological activity with hydrology necessarily favor salt
      created electrically by drying out that occurs adjacent to the

      The sulfur loving microbes are connected to Gaia, but not as well due
      to the manipulation of tectonics that occurs as the biosphere
      rich near land oceans is scraped off the continental plates and
      near shore mountains, keenly the subject of river erosion. Hence, as
      volcanic processes with life are favored, so too is the relationship
      between the sulfur loving microbes, but that relationship is not as
      as the fairly direct relationship that salt loving microbes would
      with hydrology controlling methanogens.

      Think of it this way, if climate
      were just unmodulated and simply global and certainly not regionally
      modulated, then there would be over huge timescales conditions where
      there are not regions of salinity. Perhaps something like the oceans
      everywhere with salinity not high but uniform, or just fresh water,
      with no extreme levels of salinity anywhere--in which case the salt
      lovers all die. You would have an extinction event for sure over
      these kinds of timescales, or certainly incredible genetic complexity
      to survive, and a lacking seen genetic closeness between the
      methanogens and the haliophiles.

      Where, further, genetic complexity has been found it has been with
      the methanogens has been over metabolic processes that guess what--
      always end with H2 and CO2 forming CH4. Again, there IS complexity in
      the methanogens and enzyme activity--but
      related to metabolism. That metabolism is a basic unit of life on
      planet upon which all other life is dependant. There IS NOT
      to, say, cause photo synthesis. Because the methane producing
      is at the bottom of the metabolic food chain, they requires that
      there BE
      a metabolic food chain to exist for them to survive. But if they do
      feedback the hydrology to the places and other createres where this
      can exist, with links that interconnect, then they themselves perish
      those conditions which do not favor the food chain are less favored
      well. ATP is H2 based. That is one example of the tie in to
      metabolism where live as a whole has evolved to match the sum of its
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