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Re: Warming Southern Oceans

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  • fredwx
    You said: It also means that induction that generally occurs is stronger, and in this case is against cirrus formation--which explains the cold interior of
    Message 1 of 7 , Apr 1, 2002
      You said: "It also means that induction that generally occurs is
      stronger, and in this case is against cirrus formation--which
      explains the cold interior of Antarctica."

      You lost me here. How does this relate to cold interior of Antarctica?
      Fred




      -- In methanehydrateclub@y..., pawnfart <no_reply@y...> wrote:
      > SCRIPPS SCIENTIST DISCOVERS WARMING TREND IN SOUTHERN OCEAN OVER
      THE
      > LAST 50 YEARS
      >
      > Decline in Antarctic sea ice, carbon dioxide storage, possible
      > implications:
      >
      > http://scrippsnews.ucsd.edu/pressreleases/gille_science_warm.html
      >
      > Comment:
      >
      > As I have been mentioning here, warmer melts the glacial ice, and
      can
      > put cold capping waters to the ENSO cycle. It also means that
      > induction that generally occurs is stronger, and in this case is
      > against cirrus formation--which explains the cold interior of
      > Antarctica.
    • pawnfart
      Fred, Per Fleming s right hand rule: First finger - movement of the conducter. SeCond finger - direction of magnetic field (N-S) ThuMb - direction of current
      Message 2 of 7 , Apr 1, 2002
        Fred,

        Per Fleming's right hand rule:

        First finger - movement of the conducter.
        SeCond finger - direction of magnetic field (N-S)
        ThuMb - direction of current (positive to negative)


        Let's break it down. Hold out your right hand so that your thumb is
        touching the screen, your first finger is pointing to your right
        parallel to the top of the screen, and your second finger toward the
        middle of the CRT. Pretend the CRT is a map of the Southern Ocean
        with the top of the screen the top of a circle with the center of the
        CRT the magnetic S. Pole. Your first finger moves with the EASTWARD
        current of the Southern Ocean. Your second finger points to the
        magnetic north per Fleming's rule. In this case, magnetic north is
        the magnetic south pole. That is because a hand held magnet which
        has a magnetic north bar magnet will point its north pole toward the
        earth's magnetic north pole, meaning that the earth's magnetic north
        pole is like the magnetic south pole of a bar magnet, as opposits
        attract. Your thumb, then, is direction of current, positive to
        negitive, a vector INTO the ocean. Take you time to think it through.

        Now, that means that the current inducted by the movement of the
        Southern Oceans winds and currents, generally speaking is moving
        EASTWARD, as defined per Fleming's right hand rule as a movement of
        electrons INTO the OCEAN. (That eddy by where B-21 and 22 broke off
        and there is WESTWARD movements is an exception and explains the warm
        anomalies there). Those electrons that move INTO the oceans take way
        from the ionosphere's ability to electrically enhance cirrus clouds
        and causes a cooling IN THE AIR. Likewise, currents moving WESTWARD
        by the glacial breakup enhance cirrus, enhance warmer conditions and
        it has been show that that area has been almost 5 degrees C warmer!
        Since warmer oceans mean that the oceans have greater specific
        conductivity, that means that what electrical current is inducted is
        EVEN stronger, and explains the regional melting of break of of
        glaciers and the colder interior that has made the news along with
        the reported warmer oceans there, and when I say warmer oceans, I
        include the idea that warmer isn't just SSTs or sea SURFACE
        temperatures, but ocean temperatures running to depths.


        --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
        > You said: "It also means that induction that generally occurs is
        > stronger, and in this case is against cirrus formation--which
        > explains the cold interior of Antarctica."
        >
        > You lost me here. How does this relate to cold interior of
        Antarctica?
        > Fred


        >
        >
        >
        >
        > -- In methanehydrateclub@y..., pawnfart <no_reply@y...> wrote:
        > > SCRIPPS SCIENTIST DISCOVERS WARMING TREND IN SOUTHERN OCEAN OVER
        > THE
        > > LAST 50 YEARS
        > >
        > > Decline in Antarctic sea ice, carbon dioxide storage, possible
        > > implications:
        > >
        > > http://scrippsnews.ucsd.edu/pressreleases/gille_science_warm.html
        > >
        > > Comment:
        > >
        > > As I have been mentioning here, warmer melts the glacial ice, and
        > can
        > > put cold capping waters to the ENSO cycle. It also means that
        > > induction that generally occurs is stronger, and in this case is
        > > against cirrus formation--which explains the cold interior of
        > > Antarctica.
      • fredwx
        You said Those electrons that move INTO the oceans take way from the ionosphere s ability to electrically enhance cirrus clouds and causes a cooling IN THE
        Message 3 of 7 , Apr 1, 2002
          You said
          "Those electrons that move INTO the oceans take way
          from the ionosphere's ability to electrically enhance cirrus clouds
          and causes a cooling IN THE AIR."

          I understand that the greatest cooling was during the December
          through February Antarctic summer so wouldn't reduced cirrus mean
          increasing temperatures?

          http://www.usatoday.com/news/healthscience/science/cold-science/2002-
          01-13-antarctic-cooling.htm


          --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., pawnfart <no_reply@y...> wrote:
          > Fred,
          >
          > Per Fleming's right hand rule:
          >
          > First finger - movement of the conducter.
          > SeCond finger - direction of magnetic field (N-S)
          > ThuMb - direction of current (positive to negative)
          >
          >
          > Let's break it down. Hold out your right hand so that your thumb
          is
          > touching the screen, your first finger is pointing to your right
          > parallel to the top of the screen, and your second finger toward
          the
          > middle of the CRT. Pretend the CRT is a map of the Southern Ocean
          > with the top of the screen the top of a circle with the center of
          the
          > CRT the magnetic S. Pole. Your first finger moves with the
          EASTWARD
          > current of the Southern Ocean. Your second finger points to the
          > magnetic north per Fleming's rule. In this case, magnetic north is
          > the magnetic south pole. That is because a hand held magnet which
          > has a magnetic north bar magnet will point its north pole toward
          the
          > earth's magnetic north pole, meaning that the earth's magnetic
          north
          > pole is like the magnetic south pole of a bar magnet, as opposits
          > attract. Your thumb, then, is direction of current, positive to
          > negitive, a vector INTO the ocean. Take you time to think it
          through.
          >
          > Now, that means that the current inducted by the movement of the
          > Southern Oceans winds and currents, generally speaking is moving
          > EASTWARD, as defined per Fleming's right hand rule as a movement of
          > electrons INTO the OCEAN. (That eddy by where B-21 and 22 broke off
          > and there is WESTWARD movements is an exception and explains the
          warm
          > anomalies there). Those electrons that move INTO the oceans take
          way
          > from the ionosphere's ability to electrically enhance cirrus clouds
          > and causes a cooling IN THE AIR. Likewise, currents moving
          WESTWARD
          > by the glacial breakup enhance cirrus, enhance warmer conditions
          and
          > it has been show that that area has been almost 5 degrees C warmer!
          > Since warmer oceans mean that the oceans have greater specific
          > conductivity, that means that what electrical current is inducted
          is
          > EVEN stronger, and explains the regional melting of break of of
          > glaciers and the colder interior that has made the news along with
          > the reported warmer oceans there, and when I say warmer oceans, I
          > include the idea that warmer isn't just SSTs or sea SURFACE
          > temperatures, but ocean temperatures running to depths.
          >
          >
          > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
          > > You said: "It also means that induction that generally occurs is
          > > stronger, and in this case is against cirrus formation--which
          > > explains the cold interior of Antarctica."
          > >
          > > You lost me here. How does this relate to cold interior of
          > Antarctica?
          > > Fred
          >
          >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > -- In methanehydrateclub@y..., pawnfart <no_reply@y...> wrote:
          > > > SCRIPPS SCIENTIST DISCOVERS WARMING TREND IN SOUTHERN OCEAN
          OVER
          > > THE
          > > > LAST 50 YEARS
          > > >
          > > > Decline in Antarctic sea ice, carbon dioxide storage, possible
          > > > implications:
          > > >
          > > >
          http://scrippsnews.ucsd.edu/pressreleases/gille_science_warm.html
          > > >
          > > > Comment:
          > > >
          > > > As I have been mentioning here, warmer melts the glacial ice,
          and
          > > can
          > > > put cold capping waters to the ENSO cycle. It also means that
          > > > induction that generally occurs is stronger, and in this case
          is
          > > > against cirrus formation--which explains the cold interior of
          > > > Antarctica.
        • pawnfart
          Fred: Again, what we are talking about is surface lows contrasting HP areas. Lows tend to have your fronts, your lightning, your places where there is
          Message 4 of 7 , Apr 1, 2002
            Fred:

            Again, what we are talking about is surface lows contrasting HP
            areas. Lows tend to have your fronts, your lightning, your places
            where there is negitive ionosphere to ground charges. In high
            presure areas the ionosphere delivers about 250 volts per meter
            squared from the ionosphere to ground. INBETWEEN are the cirrus
            clouds, and they have a VERY powerful GHG impact. Some of the papers
            I have read on cirrus clouds and the forcing involved are talking
            about differences over over 100 watts per meter squared between the
            area with the cirrus and high clouds and the low clouds. So if a
            forcing is consistant over a period of time it matters to SSTs (with
            emphisis on SURFACE) and to temperatures like the interior.

            Now, in response to your article, look at this figure from Keeling
            Whorf. Note that the period 1,200 years ago was a low period in
            tidal activity, meaning less hydrate depressurization. That means
            warmer oceans:

            http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/97/8/3814/F2

            Warmer ocean then and now mean that there is more induction against
            cirrus being sustained electrially in this middle area between storm
            and fair weather, and it amounts to a substantial forcing on the
            surface.

            Note that after the warming from the northern hemisphere,
            particularly where there isn't EASTWARD currents as much as w/ the
            Southern Ocean, the oceans at depths have warmed:

            http://scrippsnews.ucsd.edu/pressreleases/gille_science_warm.html

            This causes greater induction and while it may mean cooler SSTs or
            cold interior, overall it has proven to melt these big glaciers.



            "We thought the ocean between 700 and 1,100 meters depth was pretty
            well insulated from what's happening at the surface and that it
            should respond more slowly than the shallow depths," said Gille, of
            the Physical Oceanography Research Division at Scripps. "But these
            results suggest that the mid-depth Southern Ocean is responding and
            warming more rapidly than global ocean temperatures."


            --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
            > You said
            > "Those electrons that move INTO the oceans take way
            > from the ionosphere's ability to electrically enhance cirrus clouds
            > and causes a cooling IN THE AIR."
            >
            > I understand that the greatest cooling was during the December
            > through February Antarctic summer so wouldn't reduced cirrus mean
            > increasing temperatures?
            >
            > http://www.usatoday.com/news/healthscience/science/cold-
            science/2002-
            > 01-13-antarctic-cooling.htm
            >
            >
            > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., pawnfart <no_reply@y...> wrote:
            > > Fred,
            > >
            > > Per Fleming's right hand rule:
            > >
            > > First finger - movement of the conducter.
            > > SeCond finger - direction of magnetic field (N-S)
            > > ThuMb - direction of current (positive to negative)
            > >
            > >
            > > Let's break it down. Hold out your right hand so that your thumb
            > is
            > > touching the screen, your first finger is pointing to your right
            > > parallel to the top of the screen, and your second finger toward
            > the
            > > middle of the CRT. Pretend the CRT is a map of the Southern Ocean
            > > with the top of the screen the top of a circle with the center of
            > the
            > > CRT the magnetic S. Pole. Your first finger moves with the
            > EASTWARD
            > > current of the Southern Ocean. Your second finger points to the
            > > magnetic north per Fleming's rule. In this case, magnetic north
            is
            > > the magnetic south pole. That is because a hand held magnet
            which
            > > has a magnetic north bar magnet will point its north pole toward
            > the
            > > earth's magnetic north pole, meaning that the earth's magnetic
            > north
            > > pole is like the magnetic south pole of a bar magnet, as opposits
            > > attract. Your thumb, then, is direction of current, positive to
            > > negitive, a vector INTO the ocean. Take you time to think it
            > through.
            > >
            > > Now, that means that the current inducted by the movement of the
            > > Southern Oceans winds and currents, generally speaking is moving
            > > EASTWARD, as defined per Fleming's right hand rule as a movement
            of
            > > electrons INTO the OCEAN. (That eddy by where B-21 and 22 broke
            off
            > > and there is WESTWARD movements is an exception and explains the
            > warm
            > > anomalies there). Those electrons that move INTO the oceans take
            > way
            > > from the ionosphere's ability to electrically enhance cirrus
            clouds
            > > and causes a cooling IN THE AIR. Likewise, currents moving
            > WESTWARD
            > > by the glacial breakup enhance cirrus, enhance warmer conditions
            > and
            > > it has been show that that area has been almost 5 degrees C
            warmer!
            > > Since warmer oceans mean that the oceans have greater specific
            > > conductivity, that means that what electrical current is inducted
            > is
            > > EVEN stronger, and explains the regional melting of break of of
            > > glaciers and the colder interior that has made the news along
            with
            > > the reported warmer oceans there, and when I say warmer oceans, I
            > > include the idea that warmer isn't just SSTs or sea SURFACE
            > > temperatures, but ocean temperatures running to depths.
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
            > > > You said: "It also means that induction that generally occurs
            is
            > > > stronger, and in this case is against cirrus formation--which
            > > > explains the cold interior of Antarctica."
            > > >
            > > > You lost me here. How does this relate to cold interior of
            > > Antarctica?
            > > > Fred
            > >
            > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > -- In methanehydrateclub@y..., pawnfart <no_reply@y...> wrote:
            > > > > SCRIPPS SCIENTIST DISCOVERS WARMING TREND IN SOUTHERN OCEAN
            > OVER
            > > > THE
            > > > > LAST 50 YEARS
            > > > >
            > > > > Decline in Antarctic sea ice, carbon dioxide storage,
            possible
            > > > > implications:
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > http://scrippsnews.ucsd.edu/pressreleases/gille_science_warm.html
            > > > >
            > > > > Comment:
            > > > >
            > > > > As I have been mentioning here, warmer melts the glacial ice,
            > and
            > > > can
            > > > > put cold capping waters to the ENSO cycle. It also means
            that
            > > > > induction that generally occurs is stronger, and in this case
            > is
            > > > > against cirrus formation--which explains the cold interior of
            > > > > Antarctica.
          • fredwx
            pawnfart said INBETWEEN are the cirrus clouds, and they have a VERY powerful GHG impact. Some of the papers I have read on cirrus clouds and the forcing
            Message 5 of 7 , Apr 2, 2002
              pawnfart said "INBETWEEN are the cirrus clouds, and they have a VERY
              powerful GHG impact. Some of the papers I have read on cirrus clouds
              and the forcing involved are talking about differences over over 100
              watts per meter squared between the area with the cirrus and high
              clouds and the low clouds"

              1. If the cirrus clouds are decreasing over Antarctica then it stands
              to reason that more solar energy is reaching the surface and
              therefore surface temperatures should be increasing over the interior
              not decreasing since the cooling reported is occuring mostly during
              the summer months when the sun is out 24/7.

              More clouds = less solar energy reaching the surface during summer.
              Less clouds = more solar energy reaching the surface during summer.

              you said "As I have been mentioning here, warmer melts the glacial
              ice, and can put cold capping waters to the ENSO cycle. It also means
              that induction that generally occurs is stronger, and in this case is
              against cirrus formation--which explains the cold interior of
              Antarctica."

              I say the opposite is true!





              --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., pawnfart <no_reply@y...> wrote:
              > Fred:
              >
              > Again, what we are talking about is surface lows contrasting HP
              > areas. Lows tend to have your fronts, your lightning, your places
              > where there is negitive ionosphere to ground charges. In high
              > presure areas the ionosphere delivers about 250 volts per meter
              > squared from the ionosphere to ground. INBETWEEN are the cirrus
              > clouds, and they have a VERY powerful GHG impact. Some of the
              papers
              > I have read on cirrus clouds and the forcing involved are talking
              > about differences over over 100 watts per meter squared between the
              > area with the cirrus and high clouds and the low clouds. So if a
              > forcing is consistant over a period of time it matters to SSTs
              (with
              > emphisis on SURFACE) and to temperatures like the interior.
              >
              > Now, in response to your article, look at this figure from Keeling
              > Whorf. Note that the period 1,200 years ago was a low period in
              > tidal activity, meaning less hydrate depressurization. That means
              > warmer oceans:
              >
              > http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/97/8/3814/F2
              >
              > Warmer ocean then and now mean that there is more induction against
              > cirrus being sustained electrially in this middle area between
              storm
              > and fair weather, and it amounts to a substantial forcing on the
              > surface.
              >
              > Note that after the warming from the northern hemisphere,
              > particularly where there isn't EASTWARD currents as much as w/ the
              > Southern Ocean, the oceans at depths have warmed:
              >
              > http://scrippsnews.ucsd.edu/pressreleases/gille_science_warm.html
              >
              > This causes greater induction and while it may mean cooler SSTs or
              > cold interior, overall it has proven to melt these big glaciers.
              >
              >
              >
              > "We thought the ocean between 700 and 1,100 meters depth was pretty
              > well insulated from what's happening at the surface and that it
              > should respond more slowly than the shallow depths," said Gille, of
              > the Physical Oceanography Research Division at Scripps. "But these
              > results suggest that the mid-depth Southern Ocean is responding and
              > warming more rapidly than global ocean temperatures."
              >
              >
              > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
              > > You said
              > > "Those electrons that move INTO the oceans take way
              > > from the ionosphere's ability to electrically enhance cirrus
              clouds
              > > and causes a cooling IN THE AIR."
              > >
              > > I understand that the greatest cooling was during the December
              > > through February Antarctic summer so wouldn't reduced cirrus mean
              > > increasing temperatures?
              > >
              > > http://www.usatoday.com/news/healthscience/science/cold-
              > science/2002-
              > > 01-13-antarctic-cooling.htm
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., pawnfart <no_reply@y...> wrote:
              > > > Fred,
              > > >
              > > > Per Fleming's right hand rule:
              > > >
              > > > First finger - movement of the conducter.
              > > > SeCond finger - direction of magnetic field (N-S)
              > > > ThuMb - direction of current (positive to negative)
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Let's break it down. Hold out your right hand so that your
              thumb
              > > is
              > > > touching the screen, your first finger is pointing to your
              right
              > > > parallel to the top of the screen, and your second finger
              toward
              > > the
              > > > middle of the CRT. Pretend the CRT is a map of the Southern
              Ocean
              > > > with the top of the screen the top of a circle with the center
              of
              > > the
              > > > CRT the magnetic S. Pole. Your first finger moves with the
              > > EASTWARD
              > > > current of the Southern Ocean. Your second finger points to
              the
              > > > magnetic north per Fleming's rule. In this case, magnetic
              north
              > is
              > > > the magnetic south pole. That is because a hand held magnet
              > which
              > > > has a magnetic north bar magnet will point its north pole
              toward
              > > the
              > > > earth's magnetic north pole, meaning that the earth's magnetic
              > > north
              > > > pole is like the magnetic south pole of a bar magnet, as
              opposits
              > > > attract. Your thumb, then, is direction of current, positive to
              > > > negitive, a vector INTO the ocean. Take you time to think it
              > > through.
              > > >
              > > > Now, that means that the current inducted by the movement of
              the
              > > > Southern Oceans winds and currents, generally speaking is
              moving
              > > > EASTWARD, as defined per Fleming's right hand rule as a
              movement
              > of
              > > > electrons INTO the OCEAN. (That eddy by where B-21 and 22 broke
              > off
              > > > and there is WESTWARD movements is an exception and explains
              the
              > > warm
              > > > anomalies there). Those electrons that move INTO the oceans
              take
              > > way
              > > > from the ionosphere's ability to electrically enhance cirrus
              > clouds
              > > > and causes a cooling IN THE AIR. Likewise, currents moving
              > > WESTWARD
              > > > by the glacial breakup enhance cirrus, enhance warmer
              conditions
              > > and
              > > > it has been show that that area has been almost 5 degrees C
              > warmer!
              > > > Since warmer oceans mean that the oceans have greater specific
              > > > conductivity, that means that what electrical current is
              inducted
              > > is
              > > > EVEN stronger, and explains the regional melting of break of of
              > > > glaciers and the colder interior that has made the news along
              > with
              > > > the reported warmer oceans there, and when I say warmer oceans,
              I
              > > > include the idea that warmer isn't just SSTs or sea SURFACE
              > > > temperatures, but ocean temperatures running to depths.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
              > > > > You said: "It also means that induction that generally occurs
              > is
              > > > > stronger, and in this case is against cirrus formation--which
              > > > > explains the cold interior of Antarctica."
              > > > >
              > > > > You lost me here. How does this relate to cold interior of
              > > > Antarctica?
              > > > > Fred
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > -- In methanehydrateclub@y..., pawnfart <no_reply@y...> wrote:
              > > > > > SCRIPPS SCIENTIST DISCOVERS WARMING TREND IN SOUTHERN OCEAN
              > > OVER
              > > > > THE
              > > > > > LAST 50 YEARS
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Decline in Antarctic sea ice, carbon dioxide storage,
              > possible
              > > > > > implications:
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > http://scrippsnews.ucsd.edu/pressreleases/gille_science_warm.html
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Comment:
              > > > > >
              > > > > > As I have been mentioning here, warmer melts the glacial
              ice,
              > > and
              > > > > can
              > > > > > put cold capping waters to the ENSO cycle. It also means
              > that
              > > > > > induction that generally occurs is stronger, and in this
              case
              > > is
              > > > > > against cirrus formation--which explains the cold interior
              of
              > > > > > Antarctica.
            • pawnfart
              In addition to what Daddy notes, here is a link you might like: http://www.copernicus.org/EGS/acp/acpd/1/221/ ... VERY ... clouds ... 100 ... stands ...
              Message 6 of 7 , Apr 2, 2002
                In addition to what Daddy notes, here is a link you might like:

                http://www.copernicus.org/EGS/acp/acpd/1/221/

                --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                > pawnfart said "INBETWEEN are the cirrus clouds, and they have a
                VERY
                > powerful GHG impact. Some of the papers I have read on cirrus
                clouds
                > and the forcing involved are talking about differences over over
                100
                > watts per meter squared between the area with the cirrus and high
                > clouds and the low clouds"
                >
                > 1. If the cirrus clouds are decreasing over Antarctica then it
                stands
                > to reason that more solar energy is reaching the surface and
                > therefore surface temperatures should be increasing over the
                interior
                > not decreasing since the cooling reported is occuring mostly during
                > the summer months when the sun is out 24/7.
                >
                > More clouds = less solar energy reaching the surface during summer.
                > Less clouds = more solar energy reaching the surface during summer.
                >
                > you said "As I have been mentioning here, warmer melts the glacial
                > ice, and can put cold capping waters to the ENSO cycle. It also
                means
                > that induction that generally occurs is stronger, and in this case
                is
                > against cirrus formation--which explains the cold interior of
                > Antarctica."
                >
                > I say the opposite is true!
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., pawnfart <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                > > Fred:
                > >
                > > Again, what we are talking about is surface lows contrasting HP
                > > areas. Lows tend to have your fronts, your lightning, your
                places
                > > where there is negitive ionosphere to ground charges. In high
                > > presure areas the ionosphere delivers about 250 volts per meter
                > > squared from the ionosphere to ground. INBETWEEN are the cirrus
                > > clouds, and they have a VERY powerful GHG impact. Some of the
                > papers
                > > I have read on cirrus clouds and the forcing involved are talking
                > > about differences over over 100 watts per meter squared between
                the
                > > area with the cirrus and high clouds and the low clouds. So if a
                > > forcing is consistant over a period of time it matters to SSTs
                > (with
                > > emphisis on SURFACE) and to temperatures like the interior.
                > >
                > > Now, in response to your article, look at this figure from
                Keeling
                > > Whorf. Note that the period 1,200 years ago was a low period in
                > > tidal activity, meaning less hydrate depressurization. That
                means
                > > warmer oceans:
                > >
                > > http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/97/8/3814/F2
                > >
                > > Warmer ocean then and now mean that there is more induction
                against
                > > cirrus being sustained electrially in this middle area between
                > storm
                > > and fair weather, and it amounts to a substantial forcing on the
                > > surface.
                > >
                > > Note that after the warming from the northern hemisphere,
                > > particularly where there isn't EASTWARD currents as much as w/
                the
                > > Southern Ocean, the oceans at depths have warmed:
                > >
                > > http://scrippsnews.ucsd.edu/pressreleases/gille_science_warm.html
                > >
                > > This causes greater induction and while it may mean cooler SSTs
                or
                > > cold interior, overall it has proven to melt these big glaciers.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > "We thought the ocean between 700 and 1,100 meters depth was
                pretty
                > > well insulated from what's happening at the surface and that it
                > > should respond more slowly than the shallow depths," said Gille,
                of
                > > the Physical Oceanography Research Division at Scripps. "But
                these
                > > results suggest that the mid-depth Southern Ocean is responding
                and
                > > warming more rapidly than global ocean temperatures."
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                > > > You said
                > > > "Those electrons that move INTO the oceans take way
                > > > from the ionosphere's ability to electrically enhance cirrus
                > clouds
                > > > and causes a cooling IN THE AIR."
                > > >
                > > > I understand that the greatest cooling was during the December
                > > > through February Antarctic summer so wouldn't reduced cirrus
                mean
                > > > increasing temperatures?
                > > >
                > > > http://www.usatoday.com/news/healthscience/science/cold-
                > > science/2002-
                > > > 01-13-antarctic-cooling.htm
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., pawnfart <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                > > > > Fred,
                > > > >
                > > > > Per Fleming's right hand rule:
                > > > >
                > > > > First finger - movement of the conducter.
                > > > > SeCond finger - direction of magnetic field (N-S)
                > > > > ThuMb - direction of current (positive to negative)
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > Let's break it down. Hold out your right hand so that your
                > thumb
                > > > is
                > > > > touching the screen, your first finger is pointing to your
                > right
                > > > > parallel to the top of the screen, and your second finger
                > toward
                > > > the
                > > > > middle of the CRT. Pretend the CRT is a map of the Southern
                > Ocean
                > > > > with the top of the screen the top of a circle with the
                center
                > of
                > > > the
                > > > > CRT the magnetic S. Pole. Your first finger moves with the
                > > > EASTWARD
                > > > > current of the Southern Ocean. Your second finger points to
                > the
                > > > > magnetic north per Fleming's rule. In this case, magnetic
                > north
                > > is
                > > > > the magnetic south pole. That is because a hand held magnet
                > > which
                > > > > has a magnetic north bar magnet will point its north pole
                > toward
                > > > the
                > > > > earth's magnetic north pole, meaning that the earth's
                magnetic
                > > > north
                > > > > pole is like the magnetic south pole of a bar magnet, as
                > opposits
                > > > > attract. Your thumb, then, is direction of current, positive
                to
                > > > > negitive, a vector INTO the ocean. Take you time to think it
                > > > through.
                > > > >
                > > > > Now, that means that the current inducted by the movement of
                > the
                > > > > Southern Oceans winds and currents, generally speaking is
                > moving
                > > > > EASTWARD, as defined per Fleming's right hand rule as a
                > movement
                > > of
                > > > > electrons INTO the OCEAN. (That eddy by where B-21 and 22
                broke
                > > off
                > > > > and there is WESTWARD movements is an exception and explains
                > the
                > > > warm
                > > > > anomalies there). Those electrons that move INTO the oceans
                > take
                > > > way
                > > > > from the ionosphere's ability to electrically enhance cirrus
                > > clouds
                > > > > and causes a cooling IN THE AIR. Likewise, currents moving
                > > > WESTWARD
                > > > > by the glacial breakup enhance cirrus, enhance warmer
                > conditions
                > > > and
                > > > > it has been show that that area has been almost 5 degrees C
                > > warmer!
                > > > > Since warmer oceans mean that the oceans have greater
                specific
                > > > > conductivity, that means that what electrical current is
                > inducted
                > > > is
                > > > > EVEN stronger, and explains the regional melting of break of
                of
                > > > > glaciers and the colder interior that has made the news along
                > > with
                > > > > the reported warmer oceans there, and when I say warmer
                oceans,
                > I
                > > > > include the idea that warmer isn't just SSTs or sea SURFACE
                > > > > temperatures, but ocean temperatures running to depths.
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                > > > > > You said: "It also means that induction that generally
                occurs
                > > is
                > > > > > stronger, and in this case is against cirrus formation--
                which
                > > > > > explains the cold interior of Antarctica."
                > > > > >
                > > > > > You lost me here. How does this relate to cold interior of
                > > > > Antarctica?
                > > > > > Fred
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > > -- In methanehydrateclub@y..., pawnfart <no_reply@y...>
                wrote:
                > > > > > > SCRIPPS SCIENTIST DISCOVERS WARMING TREND IN SOUTHERN
                OCEAN
                > > > OVER
                > > > > > THE
                > > > > > > LAST 50 YEARS
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > Decline in Antarctic sea ice, carbon dioxide storage,
                > > possible
                > > > > > > implications:
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > >
                http://scrippsnews.ucsd.edu/pressreleases/gille_science_warm.html
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > Comment:
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > As I have been mentioning here, warmer melts the glacial
                > ice,
                > > > and
                > > > > > can
                > > > > > > put cold capping waters to the ENSO cycle. It also means
                > > that
                > > > > > > induction that generally occurs is stronger, and in this
                > case
                > > > is
                > > > > > > against cirrus formation--which explains the cold
                interior
                > of
                > > > > > > Antarctica.
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