Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

More discussions on the China paper--extending the discussion from ice to water

Expand Messages
  • mike@usinter.net
    There are many papers written, and sometimes it is long before society has any idea how important that paper is. Here is, again, the link to the China paper
    Message 1 of 1 , Aug 12 9:35 AM
    • 0 Attachment
      There are many papers written, and sometimes it is long before
      society has any idea how important that paper is. Here is, again,
      the link to the China paper and a quote from it:

      http://www.ichmt.org/abstracts/Vim-01/abstracts/04-01.pdf

      "The effects of electric field on ice crystal growth had been
      numerically discussed by Scishcheve and Kusalike6-7. They announced
      that the strength of an electric field able to change the ice lattice
      from normal ice(Ih) to cubic ice (Ic) should be at least 10 to the
      5th kV/m [fair weather voltages are about 10 to the -1 k volts per
      meter]. However, the strength of the electric field used in our
      experiments was only 1/400 of the 10 to the 5th kV/m [fair weather
      voltages would be on order of 1/1,000,000 of these voltages, whereas
      w/ tropical storm transiants above the eye, the transiant ratios
      would be similar to the experiments]. Thus, the morphological change
      of the ice in this study was not caused by the ice lattice change.
      Without the electric field, the crystal growth process could be
      considered as a process whereby the water molecules are added one by
      one to the crystal lattice. This 'adding' process has normally the
      same probability in all directions, and leads to the formation of the
      symmetric ice crystal [figure omitted]. However, when a high voltage
      field is applied, the electric field may cause different molecules in
      the DMSO solution[a weak acid--what should be noted is rain water is
      slightly acidic from the CO2 and other particles that get dissolved
      in the air--with a pH of about 5.6] to exhibit different behaviors.
      The polar water molecules/clusters may be torqued and rearranged
      under the action of the electric field and forced to joining the
      lattice in a special orientation and position. Hence, different
      growth rates occur in different directions and the ice crystal
      becomes asymmetric. Under the action of an electric field, the water
      molecules may rearrange and line up end to end in the direction of
      the electric field. In viewing the crystal structure, this well-
      ordered water molecules/clusters seems like crystal or quasi-
      crystallines. In this case the water molecules/clusters possess an
      ideal situation for rapid crystal growth. That may be the reason why
      the main branches, which are parallel to the direction of the
      electric field, grow faster than the other branches."


      I have been thinking the past day or so about extending the China
      paper's main premise to the phase changing that occurs not just with
      water to ice, but also from water vapor to water. I will make some
      assertions that many of you may be uncomfortable with, so I will list
      them and ask that you specify those which you are having difficulty
      with so that I can further explain and give further example of.

      I am not going to set up a small scale experiment like the China
      paper did, because I think that nature provides us with our lab. As
      I have mentioned here in discussions of hurricane mesovotices, inside
      the eyes you see mini storms, and IR sattelite pictures clearly show
      the outside rings of these vortices warmer than the inside. You
      have, essentially, inside the vortices relatively cooling air and
      outside water vapor is turning to water and that air garners phase
      change energies and relatively warms. The up and down causes a bath
      tub like spin and there you go--a vortice. The question becomes why
      are these turbulances organized as such?

      Key to this discussion is to realize that the cirrus disk in a
      hurricane is OUTSIDE of the eye, and the mesovotices are inside of
      it. Further, a hurricane is a WARM CORE low, rare in nature. It is
      also rare in nature becuase only in a hurricane are the huge K VOLT
      transiants found above the eye.

      Again, for those of you unfamiliar, the dielectric of water is about
      80 times that of air. What that means is if we are talking about a
      static charge in the ionosphere--let's assume it is a relatively
      positive set of charges, that it won't couple as well to the ocean if
      there are clouds in between. Thus, in the eye of a hurricane, the
      whole diameter of the storm itself will not be able to couple with
      the ocean in a capacitive manner EXCEPT through the eye or on the
      outside of the storm! That means there are HUGE AC voltages (DC
      FIELDS) involved in the eye that may act on cloud parasols.

      We already know that at some point the cloud disk can't form in a
      tropical storm and you get and eye. That is consistant with the
      findings already seen in the China paper. But what we don't have is
      an explaination for the mesovortices, since these organizations
      inside tropical storms won't have ice. Again, a surface low of a
      tropical storm is WARM CORE.

      So this is your emperical data that searches for an explaination. I
      will no attempt to explain it in terms of cloud microphysics.

      Assuming you have a parasol that is water, not ice, and it is in a
      KVOLT transiant. What would you expect if we are talking about an
      ion solution, not pure water? You would expect that the parasol
      would be somewhat asymetrical in the field, but more importantly, you
      would expect migration of the ions by charge, with positive ions
      drawn to the negative side of the field and negative ions to the
      positive side. A water vapor molecule, then, attempting to attach
      itself to the parasol will find that there are a more limited set of
      positions that it can attach itself to the parasol and hence give
      phase change energy to the surrounding air. OTOH, the water in the
      outside ring of the mesovortices which clearly show in IR shots of
      large tropical storms will have enough water vapor that the
      dielectric value nets a strong enough capacitance to avoid a strong
      DC field there, and the water can combine with water vapor more
      rapidly and give phase change energies to the surrounding air. The
      water vapor inside the mesovotice exposed to the strong DC field
      cannot join parasols and so they diffuse to the outside of the
      mesovortice, and the pattern organizes thermally and barotropically
      from the electrical.
    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.