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'abiogenesis', Mike?

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  • leo sullivan
    Opened my mail yesterday to the blaze of National Geographic x July 2004: The Sun: Living With a Stormy Star cover story by Curt Suplee, plus supplement
    Message 1 of 2 , Jun 24 6:53 AM
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      Opened my mail yesterday to the blaze of National Geographic'x July
      2004:
      "The Sun: Living With a Stormy Star" cover story by Curt Suplee,
      plus supplement insert 'New Views of Our Sun', with it's huge, blow-up
      detail of the golden,
      VanGogh-ish sunspots image of last year.
      ________________________________
      "abiogenesis", Mike?; abiogenesis- of what-
      or Whom?
      Are we talking solar hydrocarbon reserves-
      abiotic petroleum ?
      Or has discussion evolved back around
      to include general abiogenesis,
      a contrarian abiotic "methanehydrate",
      an abio-Gaia for the devil's advocate?
      I am unsure of the relationships
      or your intent in
      " electrical (gas exchange and direct current
      resistances) and macro biological . . . and the hydrate role ...
      in abiogenesis."

      LEO

      From:  mike@u...
      Date:  Mon Jun 21, 2004  6:33 am
      Subject:  Re: Hurricanes help the ocean bloom

      What's interesting about that site is like Dave and I have been
      posting with his focus on the sun and my focus on the earth, and
      hence looking at an interaction between the two celestial bodies from
      a different perspective. A perspective that is fundimentally about
      thermodynamics--from an electrical and biological view.

      Even the topic of hydrates has not been seen by the research
      communicty as electrical (gas exchange and direct current
      resistances) and macro biological . . . and the hydrate role in both
      aspects are probably one of the most fundimental in abiogenesis.
      This, I suppose, has further focused our group and made it what it
      is, realtime cutting edge science that has universiality in its
      themes and cross topics.
        Message 2244 of 2246
      ____________________________
      > Organelle
      > <http://www.organelle.org/>




















































































      of what ?


      On Monday, Jun 21, 2004, at 06:48 US/Pacific,
      methanehydrateclub@yahoogroups.com wrote:

      >
      > From: mike@...
      > Subject: Re: Hurricanes help the ocean bloom
      >
      > What's interesting about that site is like Dave and I have been
      > posting with his focus on the sun and my focus on the earth, and
      > hence looking at an interaction between the two celestial bodies from
      > a different perspective. A perspective that is fundimentally about
      > thermodynamics--from an electrical and biological view.
      >
      > Even the topic of hydrates has not been seen by the research
      > communicty as electrical (gas exchange and direct current
      > resistances) and macro biological . . . and the hydrate role in both
      > aspects are probably one of the most fundimental in abiogenesis.
      > This, I suppose, has further focused our group and made it what it
      > is, realtime cutting edge science that has universiality in its
      > themes and cross topics.



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • mike@usinter.net
      ... I would agree that conservative science views the sun as the center of the universe. This differs from previous views that the sun circled the earth.
      Message 2 of 2 , Jun 27 9:34 AM
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        > VanGogh-ish sunspots image of last year.

        I would agree that conservative science views the sun as the center
        of the universe. This differs from previous views that the sun
        circled the earth. While this dogma obviously missed the force of
        gravity, it may have captured gaia better.

        > ________________________________
        > "abiogenesis", Mike?; abiogenesis- of what-
        > or Whom?

        Nucleotide sorting of parasols was what caused complexity to evolve
        against entropy--and allowed us, whom you suggest. So both.


        > Are we talking solar hydrocarbon reserves-
        > abiotic petroleum ?

        Fossil fuels are from another gaia time and dynamic. It's like
        taking the sweat from your body when you are hot and later ingesting
        those salts when you are cold and shivering. This behavior is not
        necessarly consistant with health of your body, nor is buring fossil
        fuels which were once part of a living past necessarly healthy for
        the living earth feedbacks.



        > Or has discussion evolved back around
        > to include general abiogenesis,

        Chemists discuss carbon as that which defines life. Biologists talk
        about repair and metabolisms. I am talking about CO2, which unifies
        these ideas, as a forcing on clouds by conductivity and gas
        exchange. Nucleotides rode these CO2 bubbles to the surface and were
        swept by winds to the clouds--to be sorted, and hence 'repair' or
        sorting became connected with metabolims, or fair weather and cloudy
        weather, as fair weather produces w/ UV light sugars, which convert
        exothermically in cloudy weather back to CO2. You cannot get past
        implausible complexity without gaia, and you cannot get to life,
        chemically or biologically defined, without gaia.


        > a contrarian abiotic "methanehydrate",

        Hydrates came later, but outgassing of methane from hydrate fields
        are consumed by the macrobiosphere to produce CO2 at the surface,
        which impacts gas exchange and indirectly influences macrobiological
        activity--as an upwelled nutrient. This produces regional
        longstanding patterns of rain and hydrology feedbacks, and modulates
        a living earth. Hydrates are in this aspect both abiotic and gaia,
        but, again, it is a later complexity that followed abiogenesis.

        > an abio-Gaia for the devil's advocate?

        Ignorance can be accepted as conformed science, Christain science, or
        sometimes not. The good example above is the sun and earth--which
        rules? Certainly gravity is understood now by mathematical formula,
        but at the end of the day how thermodynamics is dampened or modulated
        to earth depends on the macrobiosphere, too. Science attempts to
        model things, and if a model fails to capture reality, new models are
        suggested. Religion starts from faith and seldom adjusts well for
        reality, hoping to impose its will. I am not the devil nor a saint.
        I do hope to speak for science.


        > I am unsure of the relationships
        > or your intent in
        > " electrical (gas exchange and direct current
        > resistances) and macro biological . . . and the hydrate role ...
        > in abiogenesis."

        Hydrates are critical to modern climate dynamics. And they are
        biologically set. But the history of gas exchange existed before
        hydrates and even the cells to produce them existed. The hydrate
        rule in abiogenisis never existed. Gas exchange is the cause of the
        connection between metabilism and repair, which occurred electrically
        in cloud parasol behaviors by sorting in DC fields between ocean and
        ionosphere, and involved nucleotides riding the surface tension of
        CO2 bubbles.

        My intent is not relevant here.


        >
        > LEO
        >
        > From:  mike@u...
        > Date:  Mon Jun 21, 2004  6:33 am
        > Subject:  Re: Hurricanes help the ocean bloom
        >
        > What's interesting about that site is like Dave and I have been
        > posting with his focus on the sun and my focus on the earth, and
        > hence looking at an interaction between the two celestial bodies
        from
        > a different perspective. A perspective that is fundimentally about
        > thermodynamics--from an electrical and biological view.
        >
        > Even the topic of hydrates has not been seen by the research
        > communicty as electrical (gas exchange and direct current
        > resistances) and macro biological . . . and the hydrate role in both
        > aspects are probably one of the most fundimental in abiogenesis.
        > This, I suppose, has further focused our group and made it what it
        > is, realtime cutting edge science that has universiality in its
        > themes and cross topics.
        >   Message 2244 of 2246
        > ____________________________
        > > Organelle
        > > <http://www.organelle.org/>
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        > of what ?
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        > On Monday, Jun 21, 2004, at 06:48 US/Pacific,
        > methanehydrateclub@yahoogroups.com wrote:
        >
        > >
        > > From: mike@u...
        > > Subject: Re: Hurricanes help the ocean bloom
        > >
        > > What's interesting about that site is like Dave and I have been
        > > posting with his focus on the sun and my focus on the earth, and
        > > hence looking at an interaction between the two celestial bodies
        from
        > > a different perspective. A perspective that is fundimentally about
        > > thermodynamics--from an electrical and biological view.
        > >
        > > Even the topic of hydrates has not been seen by the research
        > > communicty as electrical (gas exchange and direct current
        > > resistances) and macro biological . . . and the hydrate role in
        both
        > > aspects are probably one of the most fundimental in abiogenesis.
        > > This, I suppose, has further focused our group and made it what it
        > > is, realtime cutting edge science that has universiality in its
        > > themes and cross topics.
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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