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HIV and gaia

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  • Mike Doran
    From another BB by Holmes: While researching STDs in Nairobi, a doctor/scientist made the startling discovery that a small number of prostitutes appeared
    Message 1 of 4 , Nov 4, 2003
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      From another BB by Holmes:

      While researching STDs in Nairobi, a doctor/scientist made the
      startling discovery that a small number of prostitutes appeared
      immune to HIV.

      They discovered that their blood and vaginal fluid contained anti-
      bodies which would attack and destroy HIV. At first they thought this
      may be a case of exposure leading to immunity (natural vaccination).
      But they soon learned the immune prostitutes were related, which lead
      them to research a family. It turns out the family itself was pretty
      much immune to the horrific casualty rate other nairobians are
      suffering due to HIV.

      This suggested that a mutation occured in one of their family
      ancestor's immune system, giving that person (and most descendants) a
      much more aggressive immune system than the rest of us lowly humans
      and an immunity to HIV.

      What they are learning is that their "new" immune system works
      different than ours in that the cell which gets invaded by HIV (and
      as it turns out any other invader) sends a "description" of the
      binding site to the immune system, so that anti-bodies may be
      created "keyed" for that new invader. Thus instead of the slow hit
      and miss systems most humans have, each of their cells are "spies"
      which sacrifice themselves to give them the blueprints of victory
      over infection.

      Thankfully we may get to use those blueprints to create vaccines for
      the rest of us. And as this family intermingles with others (and at
      this point it is already quite large), this new immune system may
      become common to many humans.

      Once again, we see change occuring in an evolutionary "pattern" as a
      mutation in one family has incidentally made it tougher, not weaker,
      and is being selected for survival due to natural events.

      At no time were investigators aided by ID theory. In fact, if Behe's
      work on the immune system was followed (search for why the
      prostitutes gained immunity to determine who created that immunity)
      we would likely not be as far as we are today.

      I might add work would certainly have been hindered by the morality
      wrapped up with ID. After all the only end purpose which could be
      shown is for the creation of a group of super-prostitutes who sire
      more super-prostitute children from their illegitimate (and
      unprotected) sexual encounters.

      Or will ID now bring in the idea that the devil has his own designs?
      It appears in this case the devil may be in the details.

      Any ID theorist out there want to show what fruit ID would have
      offered us in this whole scenario over its evo counterpart? Please
      also address specified complexity, and Behe's notions that immune
      systems could not have evolved to their current state of complexity.

      Comment:

      The Gaia theory of pre cellular evolution, as it pertains to cirrus
      cloud dynamics, would point out that an symbiotic relationship
      between cloud based nucleotides and land based nucleotides has
      existed for billions of years. Therefore, one isn't going to do in
      the other. That means that virus nucleotides are going to survive
      and then immune system based nucleotides are going to survive . . .
      both. And condition that leads to an Andraumada Strain would wipe
      out Gaia's surface/marine conductivity modulations and hence result
      in the entire region where the pathogen existed to experience chaotic
      inputs of climate without modulation, hence making the virus
      extinct. Virus can rise to clouds and more heavy cellular or more
      complex and heavy precellular life could not, whereas virus particles
      would have becuase of their size no ability to provide a conductivity
      change below. W/out the virus, the more complex life wouldn't have
      cirrus modulating ability, and hence would again wipe out living
      earth climate feedbacks.
    • David
      ... I have to disagree with this part, Mike. Viable bacteria have been found at the upper reaches of the atmosphere.
      Message 2 of 4 , Nov 4, 2003
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        > Virus can rise to clouds and more heavy cellular or more
        > complex and heavy precellular life could not, whereas virus particles
        > would have becuase of their size no ability to provide a conductivity
        > change below.

        I have to disagree with this part, Mike. Viable bacteria have been
        found at the upper reaches of the atmosphere.
      • Mike Doran
        Oh this is true, that small single celled creatures can act much like a virus in terms of a weight charge distribution BUT consider there are NO two three and
        Message 3 of 4 , Nov 4, 2003
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          Oh this is true, that small single celled creatures can act much like
          a virus in terms of a weight charge distribution BUT consider there
          are NO two three and four celled creatures, and that a methanogen is
          1,000 times smaller than a human cell. Why?


          --- In methanehydrateclub@yahoogroups.com, "David" <b1blancer1@e...>
          wrote:
          > > Virus can rise to clouds and more heavy cellular or more
          > > complex and heavy precellular life could not, whereas virus
          particles
          > > would have becuase of their size no ability to provide a
          conductivity
          > > change below.
          >
          > I have to disagree with this part, Mike. Viable bacteria have been
          > found at the upper reaches of the atmosphere.
        • David
          ... That s true. As far as I know, there are no creatures that consist of a few cells. It s either one or a bunch of them.
          Message 4 of 4 , Nov 4, 2003
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            --- In methanehydrateclub@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Doran" <mike@u...> wrote:
            > Oh this is true, that small single celled creatures can act much like
            > a virus in terms of a weight charge distribution BUT consider there
            > are NO two three and four celled creatures, and that a methanogen is
            > 1,000 times smaller than a human cell. Why?
            >

            That's true. As far as I know, there are no creatures that consist of
            a few cells. It's either one or a bunch of them.
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