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Re: [Methane Hydrate Club] Re: Newbie questions?

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  • societal muse
    Thanks for the response Mike, but I cannot pretend to even remotely grasp it. This treatment of the Earth s biosphere as an electrical circuit, is that
    Message 1 of 2 , Aug 21 5:39 PM
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      Thanks for the response Mike, but I cannot pretend to even remotely grasp
      it. This treatment of the Earth's biosphere as an electrical circuit, is
      that described more thoroughly somewhere--book or article?

      Also, you say "To me, the most important measure of the instability of
      climate from human influences is the decreasing earth EMF, which has become
      8 percent less intense over the past 100 years, and 10 percent over the past
      150". IF the decreasing trend keep's up, what is the projected result in
      10yrs and 25yrs from now?

      Societal_Muse



      >From: "Mike Doran" <mike@...>
      >--- In methanehydrateclub@yahoogroups.com, "societal muse"
      ><societal_muse@h...> wrote:
      > > As a new comer to this list and to the issue of global warming in
      >general,
      > > I'd like to ask some "newbie" questions if I may:
      > >
      > > 1-I assume that the world's frozen methane hydrate reserves are
      >under a much
      > > increasingly intense study by both concerned
      >scientist/environmentalist
      > > community and that of the energy community, the former wary and
      >looking for
      > > the "trigger point", the latter looking for it's exploitation as
      >an energy
      > > source?
      >
      >
      >But no one with electrical/EMF training or biological training is
      >looking at them . . . yet. Hydrates are electrically insulating.
      >Indeed, they are located in one methode by trolling electrodes and
      >seeking conductivity anomalies. Trigger points are particularly a
      >poor way of looking at a biological feedback. If the hydrates don't
      >form, the area becomes like an exposed wire--and cannot conduct
      >large scale low freq EMF as well--and the cloud feedbacks should
      >cool. The issue, from my bio leanings, is modulations and defects
      >in biological feedback loops, which include chemistry as well as
      >temperature modulations.
      >
      >
      > >
      > > 2-I've read accounts of the 250mya Permian Extinction which
      >theorize that
      > > an initial meteor hit set off a +5�C rise in global temperatures,
      >which in
      > > turn triggered a release of frozen methane, yielding another 5�C
      >rise for a
      > > total of 10�C. My question is, how was the now gaseous, methane
      >hydrate
      > > recaptured and frozen again, allowing the planet to cool back down
      >to it's
      > > pre-Permian level? Was it always a continuous process?
      > >
      >
      >The recent 60 My event of the astroid in the GOM was much more
      >interesting because it was followed by very cold period--according
      >to the paleo evidence. This makes sense for hydrates to unform and
      >then for the electrically insulating properties to be dramatically
      >harmed. CO2 is much more of an interesting forcing ELECTRICALLY,
      >but it should be tempered with the idea that it is a modulated
      >reality, not a chaotic one, with very subtile signals getting
      >modulated into something meaningful that the biosphere can amplify
      >and use. Defects in feedback loops will not allow this to happen.
      >
      >
      > > 3-Last question, once we know for sure that a global temperature
      >rise of X
      > > (expected to be 5�C) would trigger a release of methane hydrate
      >AND we know
      > > for sure that hydrocarbon fuels are actually raising the earth's
      >atmospheric
      > > temperature (public admission of such by top Republican
      >politicians and the
      > > oil companies), will we still be able to reverse or just stop
      >global
      > > warming?
      > >
      >
      >
      >It is not chaos then, chaos now, burn fossil fuels, but modulation
      >then, modulation now, be careful of living feedback loops.
      >Removing 30 gigatons of CO2 every year from what is not in the
      >biosphere and burning directly into the lungs of the biosphere is
      >going to have both direct electrical impact and indirect biological
      >impact. Hydrates unforming by warming temperatures is more
      >dangerous for droughts in regions that depend on the electrical
      >insulating propertie of the hydrates. Active areas of the biosphere
      >will uptake the carbon and feedback insulation, and with more life,
      >conductivity, so you end up with extremes. If those extremes then
      >lead to less modulation, they you get temperature and chemistry and
      >ecology instabilities. To me, the most important measure of the
      >instability of climate from human influences is the decreasing earth
      >EMF, which has become 8 percent less intense over the past 100
      >years, and 10 percent over the past 150.
      > > Thanks.
      > >
      > > Societal_Muse
      > >
      > > _________________________________________________________________
      > > <b>Get MSN 8</b> and help protect your children with advanced
      >parental
      > > controls. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/parental
      >

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    • Mike Doran
      ... grasp ... circuit, is ... It is described right here. ... of ... has become ... the past ... result in ... I would estimate that the change will be steady
      Message 2 of 2 , Aug 21 10:37 PM
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        --- In methanehydrateclub@yahoogroups.com, "societal muse"
        <societal_muse@h...> wrote:
        > Thanks for the response Mike, but I cannot pretend to even remotely
        grasp
        > it. This treatment of the Earth's biosphere as an electrical
        circuit, is
        > that described more thoroughly somewhere--book or article?

        It is described right here.

        >
        > Also, you say "To me, the most important measure of the instability
        of
        > climate from human influences is the decreasing earth EMF, which
        has become
        > 8 percent less intense over the past 100 years, and 10 percent over
        the past
        > 150". IF the decreasing trend keep's up, what is the projected
        result in
        > 10yrs and 25yrs from now?

        I would estimate that the change will be steady until there is a
        point when the modulations cannot occur, region by region, much like
        you would die, organ by organ, if your body temperature by fever
        reaches 108 degrees F. or more. Then the body temperature becomes
        that of the room. Likewise, the modulations that feedback the
        earth's EMF have become less able to do it, and the field is losing
        its power. At some point, the field becomes defined by convection
        and not the "memory" of the field in the iron nickle core, and you
        have the potential to have very powerful climate changes by region,
        because signal noise ratios will be altered.


        >
        > Societal_Muse
        >
        >
        >
        > >From: "Mike Doran" <mike@u...>
        > >--- In methanehydrateclub@yahoogroups.com, "societal muse"
        > ><societal_muse@h...> wrote:
        > > > As a new comer to this list and to the issue of global warming
        in
        > >general,
        > > > I'd like to ask some "newbie" questions if I may:
        > > >
        > > > 1-I assume that the world's frozen methane hydrate reserves are
        > >under a much
        > > > increasingly intense study by both concerned
        > >scientist/environmentalist
        > > > community and that of the energy community, the former wary and
        > >looking for
        > > > the "trigger point", the latter looking for it's exploitation as
        > >an energy
        > > > source?
        > >
        > >
        > >But no one with electrical/EMF training or biological training is
        > >looking at them . . . yet. Hydrates are electrically insulating.
        > >Indeed, they are located in one methode by trolling electrodes and
        > >seeking conductivity anomalies. Trigger points are particularly a
        > >poor way of looking at a biological feedback. If the hydrates
        don't
        > >form, the area becomes like an exposed wire--and cannot conduct
        > >large scale low freq EMF as well--and the cloud feedbacks should
        > >cool. The issue, from my bio leanings, is modulations and defects
        > >in biological feedback loops, which include chemistry as well as
        > >temperature modulations.
        > >
        > >
        > > >
        > > > 2-I've read accounts of the 250mya Permian Extinction which
        > >theorize that
        > > > an initial meteor hit set off a +5°C rise in global
        temperatures,
        > >which in
        > > > turn triggered a release of frozen methane, yielding another 5°C
        > >rise for a
        > > > total of 10°C. My question is, how was the now gaseous, methane
        > >hydrate
        > > > recaptured and frozen again, allowing the planet to cool back
        down
        > >to it's
        > > > pre-Permian level? Was it always a continuous process?
        > > >
        > >
        > >The recent 60 My event of the astroid in the GOM was much more
        > >interesting because it was followed by very cold period--according
        > >to the paleo evidence. This makes sense for hydrates to unform and
        > >then for the electrically insulating properties to be dramatically
        > >harmed. CO2 is much more of an interesting forcing ELECTRICALLY,
        > >but it should be tempered with the idea that it is a modulated
        > >reality, not a chaotic one, with very subtile signals getting
        > >modulated into something meaningful that the biosphere can amplify
        > >and use. Defects in feedback loops will not allow this to happen.
        > >
        > >
        > > > 3-Last question, once we know for sure that a global temperature
        > >rise of X
        > > > (expected to be 5°C) would trigger a release of methane hydrate
        > >AND we know
        > > > for sure that hydrocarbon fuels are actually raising the earth's
        > >atmospheric
        > > > temperature (public admission of such by top Republican
        > >politicians and the
        > > > oil companies), will we still be able to reverse or just stop
        > >global
        > > > warming?
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >It is not chaos then, chaos now, burn fossil fuels, but modulation
        > >then, modulation now, be careful of living feedback loops.
        > >Removing 30 gigatons of CO2 every year from what is not in the
        > >biosphere and burning directly into the lungs of the biosphere is
        > >going to have both direct electrical impact and indirect biological
        > >impact. Hydrates unforming by warming temperatures is more
        > >dangerous for droughts in regions that depend on the electrical
        > >insulating propertie of the hydrates. Active areas of the
        biosphere
        > >will uptake the carbon and feedback insulation, and with more life,
        > >conductivity, so you end up with extremes. If those extremes then
        > >lead to less modulation, they you get temperature and chemistry and
        > >ecology instabilities. To me, the most important measure of the
        > >instability of climate from human influences is the decreasing
        earth
        > >EMF, which has become 8 percent less intense over the past 100
        > >years, and 10 percent over the past 150.
        > > > Thanks.
        > > >
        > > > Societal_Muse
        > > >
        > > >
        _________________________________________________________________
        > > > <b>Get MSN 8</b> and help protect your children with advanced
        > >parental
        > > > controls. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/parental
        > >
        >
        > _________________________________________________________________
        > Get MSN 8 and enjoy automatic e-mail virus protection.
        > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
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