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Re: [Methane Hydrate Club] High speed wind

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  • David <b1blancer1@earthlink.net>
    Walter, we may not agree with everything you have to say, but that doesn t mean we aren t listening. You re one of the few active people in this group, and I
    Message 1 of 7 , Mar 2, 2003
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      Walter, we may not agree with everything you have to say, but that
      doesn't mean we aren't listening. You're one of the few active people
      in this group, and I for one would like you to stay.
    • David <b1blancer1@earthlink.net>
      ... We disagree in this, Walter. The Earth s magnetic field is generated from within, not created from the outside. ... describing. Now here, you have
      Message 2 of 7 , Mar 2, 2003
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        > I
        > must insist that the current that makes our magnetic poles is the SE and
        > that its positioning in and around the ice poles is not an accident
        > because the SE is coming from and going to the Sun.

        We disagree in this, Walter. The Earth's magnetic field is generated
        from within, not created from the outside.

        > It is inducting the
        > Magnetic field, which in turn is inducing what you have been
        describing.

        Now here, you have something. The Earth's magnetic field is
        definitely influenced by the sun. No doubt about that.\

        > The equator turning motion on the Sun is East to West, meaning that the
        > major electric flow direction is from its north to South.

        Whoops! You got that one backwards. The Earth's magnetic field lines
        emerge at the south pole and re-enter at the north pole, which means
        that the north pole is actually the aouth pole. Confused yet?

        > CMEs are not the SE, but
        > are like shot from gun - particles.

        Yes, that is correct. Specifically they are a blast of plasma from
        the sun's corona, as opposed to the solar wind, which originated from
        lower down beneath the corona.

        > The SE isn't the current that is
        > blasting through the Sun and holding our Solarsystem by its flow through
        > our Sun in its position in our galaxy. The SE is a residual flow around
        > the blasting flow from and to the galaxy.

        I'm not quite sure what you're referring to. There is such a thing as
        an interstellar wind, believe it or not. It is a very tenuous, but
        high speed flow of particles that is generated by supernova
        explosions. It permeates the entire galaxy. Where our sun's solar
        wind is finally stopped by the interstellar wind is known as the
        heliopause. With a little luck, Voyager 1 and 2 may survive long
        enough to reach that point and report back their findings. The
        heliopause is considered the true boundary of interstellar space.
        Excactly where the heliopause is isn't really known. In fact, it's
        probably somewhat dynamic, moving in and out with the sunspot cycles.
      • mike
        Comments below. ... From: David To: methanehydrateclub@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 04:22:08
        Message 3 of 7 , Mar 3, 2003
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          Comments below.

          -----Original Message-----
          From: "David <b1blancer1@...>" <b1blancer1@...>
          To: methanehydrateclub@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 04:22:08 -0000
          Subject: Re: [Methane Hydrate Club] High speed wind

          > <html><body>
          >
          >
          > <tt>
          > > I<BR>
          > > must insist that the current that makes our magnetic poles is the
          > SE and<BR>
          > > that its positioning in and around the ice poles is not an
          > accident<BR>
          > > because the SE is coming from and going to the Sun. <BR>
          > <BR>
          > We disagree in this, Walter.  The Earth's magnetic field is
          > generated<BR>
          > from within, not created from the outside.<BR>
          > <BR>

          I disagree. The double dymino theory is flawed in that it does not have
          a biological aspect.


          > > It is inducting the<BR>
          > > Magnetic field, which in turn is inducing what you have been<BR>
          > describing. <BR>
          > <BR>
          > Now here, you have something.  The Earth's magnetic field is<BR>
          > definitely influenced by the sun.  No doubt about that.\<BR>
          > <BR>
          > > The equator turning motion on the Sun is East to West, meaning
          > that the<BR>
          > > major electric flow direction is from its north to South. 
          > <BR>

          The problem with this idea is that the earth's EMF flips from time to
          time.

          Gaia would explain this in terms of strike activity causing amplification
          going the other way depending on biological conditions.



          > <BR>
          > Whoops!  You got that one backwards.  The Earth's magnetic
          > field lines<BR>
          > emerge at the south pole and re-enter at the north pole, which
          > means<BR>
          > that the north pole is actually the aouth pole.  Confused yet?<BR>
          > <BR>
          > > CMEs are not the SE, but<BR>
          > > are like shot from gun - particles.  <BR>
          > <BR>
          > Yes, that is correct.  Specifically they are a blast of plasma
          > from<BR>
          > the sun's corona, as opposed to the solar wind, which originated
          > from<BR>
          > lower down beneath the corona.<BR>
          > <BR>
          > > The SE isn't the current that is<BR>
          > > blasting through the Sun and holding our Solarsystem by its flow
          > through<BR>
          > > our Sun in its position in our galaxy.  The SE is a residual
          > flow around<BR>
          > > the blasting flow from and to the galaxy.  <BR>
          > <BR>
          > I'm not quite sure what you're referring to.  There is such a
          > thing as<BR>
          > an interstellar wind, believe it or not.  It is a very tenuous,
          > but<BR>
          > high speed flow of particles that is generated by supernova<BR>
          > explosions.  It permeates the entire galaxy.  Where our sun's
          > solar<BR>
          > wind is finally stopped by the interstellar wind is known as the<BR>
          > heliopause.  With a little luck, Voyager 1 and 2 may survive
          > long<BR>
          > enough to reach that point and report back their findings. 

          This is cool. BUT in relation to the earth's EMF and the 'SE' the solar
          wind is VERY small as a current. What is more important is the
          relationship between convection and charge separation and the cirrus
          sorting that does occur from the solar pulse. What this relationship is
          and how the biosphere modulates these currents eventually determines the
          earth's EMF.


          > The<BR>
          > heliopause is considered the true boundary of interstellar space. <BR>
          > Excactly where the heliopause is isn't really known.  In fact,
          > it's<BR>
          > probably somewhat dynamic, moving in and out with the sunspot
          > cycles.<BR>
          > <BR>
          > <BR>
          > <BR>
          > </tt>
          >
          > <br>
          >
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        • mike
          WOODS HOLE, Massachusetts, February 26, 2003 (ENS) - New research suggests that warming oceans could cause intense eruptions of methane from the sea floor,
          Message 4 of 7 , Mar 3, 2003
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            WOODS HOLE, Massachusetts, February 26, 2003 (ENS) - New research
            suggests that warming oceans could cause "intense eruptions" of methane
            from the sea floor, leading to "catastrophic" global warming.
            Scientists have found new evidence indicating that during periods of
            rapid climate warming, methane gas has been released from the seafloor in
            intense eruptions. In a study published in the current issue of the
            journal "Science," Kai-Uwe Hinrichs and colleagues Laura Hmelo and Sean
            Sylva of the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution (WHOI) provide a direct
            link between methane reservoirs in coastal marine sediments and the
            global carbon cycle, an indicator of global warming and cooling.

            Molecular fossils from methane consuming bacteria found in sediments in
            the Santa Barbara Basin off California deposited during the last glacial
            period - 70,000 to 12,000 years ago - indicate that large quantities of
            methane were emitted from the seafloor during warmer phases of the last
            ice age. Methane, one of the major greenhouse gases, is stored on the
            seafloor as an ice like solid known as methane hydrate.

            Previous evidence for such massive eruptions was based on isotopic
            properties of calcite shells of foraminifera, microscopic marine animals
            called forams. Because a variety of factors could lead to very similar
            signals in their shells, that evidence has remained controversial.

            The preserved molecular remnants found by the WHOI team result from
            bacteria that fed exclusively on methane and indicate that large
            quantities of this powerful greenhouse gas were present in coastal waters
            off California. The team studied samples that were deposited between
            44,000 and 37,000 years ago.

            "For the first time, we are able to clearly establish a connection
            between distinct isotopic depletions in forams and high concentrations of
            methane in the fossil record," said Hinrichs, an assistant scientist in
            the Institution's Geology and Geophysics Department.

            "The large amounts of methane presumably released during one event about
            44,000 years ago suggest a mechanism different from those underlying the
            emissions at warmer periods, i.e. slow decomposition of methane hydrate
            triggered by warming of bottom waters," Hinrichs continued. "The sudden
            release of these enormous quantities of methane was probably caused by
            landslides and melting of the methane hydrate."

            Since there was already indirect evidence of methane eruptions in the
            Santa Barbara Basin area, Hinrichs and colleagues looked for fossil
            remnants of bacteria that would have flourished only under high
            concentrations of methane. In a 44,000 year old sediment sample, a
            distinct type of biomarker representing bacterial communities that
            oxidize methane in the absence of oxygen provided evidence for an abrupt,
            catastrophic release of methane, presumably trapped as hydrate below the
            sea floor.

            The WHOI team's data, from sediment cores taken by the Ocean Drilling
            Program off southern California, show that substantial quantities of
            methane were released at least several times during the past 60,000
            years, leading to periodic fluctuations in the levels of methane in deep
            waters in the Santa Barbara Basin.

            The researchers say increased bottom water temperatures could mobilize or
            release large amounts of methane hydrate in shallow waters. According to
            some current estimates, there are about 10,000 billion tons of methane
            stored beneath the ocean and on continents.

            In comparison, the contribution of humans to the atmosphere's inventory
            of greenhouse gases by fossil fuel burning amounts to about 200 billion
            tons of carbon in the form of carbon dioxide. If even a small portion of
            the stored methane were to escape into the atmosphere, the resulting
            greenhouse warming would be catastrophic.

            "It was a surprise to find this sort of evidence," said Hinrichs, who was
            looking for evidence indicating mechanisms other than methane. "Although
            this research tells us something about the amount of methane consumed by
            bacteria in the ocean, it doesn't tell us anything about methane
            emissions into the atmosphere because neither forams nor methane
            biomarkers record the portion of methane that escaped out of the ocean."

            "But one thing is for sure," he said, "our results clearly show that
            relatively minor environmental changes can have a major impact on
            sensitive coastal regions with yet unknown consequences for climate and
            biota."

            Hinrichs plans to look for similar evidence elsewhere to determine
            whether this process, as a driver of climate variation, happened
            simultaneously at other locations around the world. This work, he said,
            is just the beginning of better understanding of the role of methane in
            the carbon cycle and ultimately on climate on geologic time scales.

            "We have a very poor understanding of the biogeochemical mechanisms that
            control production, destruction and accumulation of methane in sediments
            underlying the ocean," Hinrichs said. "We need to understand the big
            picture of what drives methane and the carbon cycle and the actual impact
            of methane emissions from hydrates on climate."

            Comment:

            In the late 1990s when I first started researching climate a runnaway
            methane hydrate meltdown was one of the biggest concerns. In April 2000
            Clinton signed the methane hydrate research bill--which passed Congress
            without a vote in opposition--giving 5 million a year in research over
            the next 10 years. In contrast, the Japanese spend 50 million in
            research. Then I spoke frequently with Dendy Sloan, from the Colorado
            School of Mines, about phase change energies and then later about the EMF
            consequences of the hydrates. One of the key things that should be
            understood is that methane in the ocean is like pure food to many
            creatures there--and is consumed rapidly. Further, the methane is DEEP in
            the ocean and dissolves almost immediately. The best research is on the
            McKenzie River delta along the near shore ocean, where coring over 1,000
            meters under the ocean surface have revealed microbrial communities! As
            it turns out, the mass of the biosphere under the surface of the ocean
            rivals the microbrial biosphere on the terresphere. So when humans farm
            the land and add chemicals and fertilizers and so forth and it runs off--
            it goes to an equally large biosphere! At this time it is too energy
            costly and costly to harvest the hydrates--and all climate concerns are
            of the CO2 as a GHG concern--which is flat wrong.

            The key feature here relative to this research and a potential for
            climate change is the mobility and containment of conductity altering
            materials by the biosphere. Hydrates are EMF insulating. Think--rubber.
            Contained biology is conductive--think wire. Water and methane quickly
            turns to dissolved methane and salt water in the deeps of the oceans--
            which are conductive. The impact on large scale EMF of large scale
            changes brought on by massive FEILDS of hydrates would be significant to
            these waves and how they move from ionosphere to cloud to ocean/sea and
            back up.

            These are the electrical properties that will QUICKLY alter climate.
            Witness the fires and drought in the SW and the Colorado River and Sea of
            Cortez/Gulf of California.

            This is what is the concern in the SOC/GOC--where there are hydrates,
            when we build a Hoover dam (that helps cause a Dust Bowl) or don't let
            any biological material flow down it under CAP and Mexican water usage of
            the Colorado River on their side of the border. The resulting fair
            weather over the GOC and the drought, fires in the SW should be no
            surprise. Equally of no surprise is once upwellings occur that the
            biological activity would be intense and storms like those in Arizona--
            the snows there, should occur like they are at this time.

            Read--extremes (drought and precip events) with hydrate melting events
            BUT as long as the hydrate fields are there--MODULATION by them. IOW
            extremes of MODULATION. Not the way chaos idiots

            look at the problem. Interestingly, at the end of the Wisconsonian--as it
            was peaking 20,000 years ago BP, west of Italy there were hydrate fields
            that unformed as the oceans were at a low point. 10,000 years later very
            powerful volcano erupted in the region, and the glacial ended and 14,000
            years later the Sahara turned to dust. What did those hydrate fields mean
            to climate in the region? I suspect MUCH. Current directions and
            induction values, EMF insulation, EMF conductivities--all would mean more
            precipatation in the region.

            The Mediterranean is now the perhaps strongest fair weather water body on
            earth, with the nearby central Africa the most struck region on earth. If
            anyone wants a graph of worldwide strikes that show this--I have a link I
            could look up.

            It's all electrical and biological, baby.
          • foryeshua1@juno.com
            David, Thank you! You are a blessing! May God continue to increase our knowledge of His wonders. Amen! Walter On Mon, 03 Mar 2003 03:55:59 -0000 David
            Message 5 of 7 , Mar 3, 2003
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              David, Thank you! You are a blessing! May God continue to increase our
              knowledge of His wonders. Amen! Walter

              On Mon, 03 Mar 2003 03:55:59 -0000 "David <b1blancer1@...>"
              <b1blancer1@...> writes:
              Walter, we may not agree with everything you have to say, but that
              doesn't mean we aren't listening. You're one of the few active people
              in this group, and I for one would like you to stay.



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            • foryeshua1@juno.com
              Ok, Lets try this again. . . On Mon, 03 Mar 2003 04:22:08 -0000 David ... and ... We disagree in this, Walter. The Earth s
              Message 6 of 7 , Mar 3, 2003
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                Ok, Lets try this again. . .

                On Mon, 03 Mar 2003 04:22:08 -0000 "David <b1blancer1@...>"
                <b1blancer1@...> writes:
                > I
                > must insist that the current that makes our magnetic poles is the SE
                and
                > that its positioning in and around the ice poles is not an accident
                > because the SE is coming from and going to the Sun.

                We disagree in this, Walter. The Earth's magnetic field is generated
                from within, not created from the outside.

                > It is inducting the
                > Magnetic field, which in turn is inducing what you have been
                describing.

                Now here, you have something. The Earth's magnetic field is
                definitely influenced by the sun. No doubt about that.\

                > The equator turning motion on the Sun is East to West, meaning that the
                > major electric flow direction is from its north to South.

                Whoops! You got that one backwards. The Earth's magnetic field lines
                emerge at the south pole and re-enter at the north pole, which means
                that the north pole is actually the South pole. Confused yet?
                Ok lets try again. In my understanding the Sun's spots appear to us
                to be twisting from East to West as we look at it. According to the
                right hand rule its rotation turning would be caused by a current flowing
                from its North to its South. This current when it flows out its South
                comes out and around in an eddy current through its planets and back to
                the Sun. As it comes up through the Earth it twists our rotation in
                (according the right hand rule) in a West to East rotation. All of the
                meteorites that land on the South pole that come from space come there
                because of this flow. The clarity of the air in this area is clear
                because this Solar Electrojet current charges all particles and takes
                them down to the ice. The circumpolar current around the South pole is
                in the direction of the same twist of the earth, West to East. It is
                going that direction because the SE is spinning it in that direction.
                Now if you insist that the magnetic field lines are coming out of the
                South pole and going around to the North, then it must be induced to do
                so because of Solar Electrojet going from the South to the North. In my
                way of thinking the currents that drive our compasses are basically
                surface flow of solar electrojet, which hasn't been generated by the
                Earth at all, but are coming in from the Sun and flowing over the surface
                of the earth as well as up through the center, causing its great stirring
                and heating. In order to prove this point we will have to drill a hole in
                the center of the South pole and see which way current flows in it. If
                the current flows into the South pole as well as up towards the North
                over the surface of the earth than it is SE. If the current flows up out
                of and around the earth Northerly, then it is generated by the earth and
                is doing what you say. This would not make sense for it would be turning
                the earth in the opposite direction according to the right hand rule. If
                you put your right thumb up into the South pole indicating the direction
                of the direct current flow that is inducing the secondary field twist in
                the right hand direction and is turning the earth from West to East. (as
                it does). If the magnetic flow which is according to my thinking
                generated by the SE is going in that direction down the center, then it
                is Not causing the earth to rotate because of its flow, because it would
                be turning the earth the other direction. The same direction that the Sun
                turns. One other proof of the SE coming in and up through the South, is
                the shape of the ozone hole itself.. It is shaped by the SE's passage by
                the South Ice cap, for it goes into the earth around the ice cap and into
                the earth. Its path through the Ozone hole is guided by its direction of
                path down and around the ice cap shape. Too bad the bays in the South ice
                pole that were there a few years ago are not still there, for they would
                show distinct shape in the ozone hole that would be unmistakable. As it
                is I think you can still see the shape. Walter
                > CMEs are not the SE, but
                > are like shot from gun - particles.

                Yes, that is correct. Specifically they are a blast of plasma from
                the sun's corona, as opposed to the solar wind, which originated from
                lower down beneath the corona.

                > The SE isn't the current that is
                > blasting through the Sun and holding our Solarsystem by its flow
                through
                > our Sun in its position in our galaxy. The SE is a residual flow
                around
                > the blasting flow from and to the galaxy.

                I'm not quite sure what you're referring to. There is such a thing as
                an interstellar wind, believe it or not. It is a very tenuous, but
                high speed flow of particles that is generated by supernova
                explosions. It permeates the entire galaxy. Where our sun's solar
                wind is finally stopped by the interstellar wind is known as the
                heliopause. With a little luck, Voyager 1 and 2 may survive long
                enough to reach that point and report back their findings. The
                heliopause is considered the true boundary of interstellar space.
                Excactly where the heliopause is isn't really known. In fact, it's
                probably somewhat dynamic, moving in and out with the sunspot cycles.





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