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Re: [Methane Hydrate Club] High speed wind

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  • foryeshua1@juno.com
    Mike, I confess I still do not have a picture of what you are talking about. But when you talk of a wave starting near the magnetic poles, I must insist that
    Message 1 of 7 , Mar 2 9:44 AM
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      Mike, I confess I still do not have a picture of what you are talking
      about. But when you talk of a wave starting near the magnetic poles, I
      must insist that the current that makes our magnetic poles is the SE and
      that its positioning in and around the ice poles is not an accident
      because the SE is coming from and going to the Sun. It is inducting the
      Magnetic field, which in turn is inducing what you have been describing.
      The equator turning motion on the Sun is East to West, meaning that the
      major electric flow direction is from its north to South. That flow in
      the form of eddy currents that are relatively weak go out the Sun South
      and come in the Earth South to control its rotation, its weather, and its
      ice pole building. The North pole ice is melting more than it should,
      because the North SE flow is around the outside of the ice block. Its
      minus 80 degree temperature is only present where the SE is flowing
      strong enough. At this time the SE is flowing around the edge of the
      North Ice pole. At the South pole the SE is coming in around its ice
      pole, which is very solidly frozen because the SE is being squeezed by
      the ozone hole it is making as it goes through the ozone layer and then
      going into the Earth around the South ice cap. This is why the ozone
      hole is shaped like the South ice cap. The South circular current is
      caused by the secondary induced field by the SE. CMEs are not the SE, but
      are like shot from gun - particles. The SE isn't the current that is
      blasting through the Sun and holding our Solarsystem by its flow through
      our Sun in its position in our galaxy. The SE is a residual flow around
      the blasting flow from and to the galaxy. The SE eddys around the solar
      system, affecting each electrical conductor according to its materials
      conductivity. Earth has special strong flows because of its
      conductivity, and water. If you want me to go away I will, but it seems
      that few if any are listening. Walter

      On Sat, 01 Mar 2003 17:00:39 -0000 "Mike Doran <mike@...>"
      <mike@...> writes:
      Interesting report David.

      As you know, I postulate that the solar wind commences "Doran waves".

      But these low frequency large scale waves must have entry near the
      magnetic poles where the isobars are close and the convection low--
      because a strike will mess up the signal.

      Speed, pressure and volume all in the end equate to electrical
      current. The number that seems to correlate largely w/ "weather"
      most, just as a causual observer, is the volume. What do you think?



      The SOI has been positive strongly now for 5 days. There is a
      tropical storm forming near OZ.

      SSTs have switched toward a more La Nina condition but in El Nino 1
      and 2 the several weeks of flaring you have described have caused a
      more nuetral condition--which is interesting to me because I think
      that ENSO is not just about SSTs but about direction of current (read
      SOI) and the amount of induction Doran waves experiance, but also a
      biological aspect of conductivity, such that an upwelling of
      nutrients that occurs from a cold anomaly would bring a food chain
      about that impacts conductivity. So that the flip to warming type
      EMF conditions, IOW conditions with more cirrus enhancement, would
      occur BEFORE SSTs warm.

      Crazy complex and posutlation, speculation, I know, but I have been
      looking at some pretty sophisticated data from NOAA. Now, SSTs along
      the SW coast, in the GOC, clearly now have warmed. So much drought
      caused so little biological enhancement from the Colorado, and the
      rest of the hydrology, that, IMHO, the ocean cooled enough on the
      surface to cause upwelling. Upwelling led to biological nutrients
      becoming available for the surface microbrial activity, and
      conductivity improved--biologically, despite the poor flow from the
      Colorado. Combining this with a trend in ENSO and that flaring/CME
      you have well described in the past few weeks resulted in the waves
      thar gaves us the Nor'easters and finally some precip to drought
      starved Arizona. In Northern Arizona they have been getting as much
      snow as anyone--many feet of it.

      With that snow and the reversal of conditions in the GOC--it will be
      interesting to watch the tornado season as it unfolds in the next two
      months. The W. GOM is very cold anomaly and there is a black algae
      patch in the E. GOM now to go with very warm SSTs after weeks of
      streaming clouds from that spot that seem to run a Doran wave over
      Florida and even impacts the NE . . . when the storm pulses are
      larger and producing the Nor'easters the pulse just goes a little
      more north . . .



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    • David <b1blancer1@earthlink.net>
      Walter, we may not agree with everything you have to say, but that doesn t mean we aren t listening. You re one of the few active people in this group, and I
      Message 2 of 7 , Mar 2 7:55 PM
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        Walter, we may not agree with everything you have to say, but that
        doesn't mean we aren't listening. You're one of the few active people
        in this group, and I for one would like you to stay.
      • David <b1blancer1@earthlink.net>
        ... We disagree in this, Walter. The Earth s magnetic field is generated from within, not created from the outside. ... describing. Now here, you have
        Message 3 of 7 , Mar 2 8:22 PM
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          > I
          > must insist that the current that makes our magnetic poles is the SE and
          > that its positioning in and around the ice poles is not an accident
          > because the SE is coming from and going to the Sun.

          We disagree in this, Walter. The Earth's magnetic field is generated
          from within, not created from the outside.

          > It is inducting the
          > Magnetic field, which in turn is inducing what you have been
          describing.

          Now here, you have something. The Earth's magnetic field is
          definitely influenced by the sun. No doubt about that.\

          > The equator turning motion on the Sun is East to West, meaning that the
          > major electric flow direction is from its north to South.

          Whoops! You got that one backwards. The Earth's magnetic field lines
          emerge at the south pole and re-enter at the north pole, which means
          that the north pole is actually the aouth pole. Confused yet?

          > CMEs are not the SE, but
          > are like shot from gun - particles.

          Yes, that is correct. Specifically they are a blast of plasma from
          the sun's corona, as opposed to the solar wind, which originated from
          lower down beneath the corona.

          > The SE isn't the current that is
          > blasting through the Sun and holding our Solarsystem by its flow through
          > our Sun in its position in our galaxy. The SE is a residual flow around
          > the blasting flow from and to the galaxy.

          I'm not quite sure what you're referring to. There is such a thing as
          an interstellar wind, believe it or not. It is a very tenuous, but
          high speed flow of particles that is generated by supernova
          explosions. It permeates the entire galaxy. Where our sun's solar
          wind is finally stopped by the interstellar wind is known as the
          heliopause. With a little luck, Voyager 1 and 2 may survive long
          enough to reach that point and report back their findings. The
          heliopause is considered the true boundary of interstellar space.
          Excactly where the heliopause is isn't really known. In fact, it's
          probably somewhat dynamic, moving in and out with the sunspot cycles.
        • mike
          Comments below. ... From: David To: methanehydrateclub@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 04:22:08
          Message 4 of 7 , Mar 3 12:38 AM
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            Comments below.

            -----Original Message-----
            From: "David <b1blancer1@...>" <b1blancer1@...>
            To: methanehydrateclub@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 04:22:08 -0000
            Subject: Re: [Methane Hydrate Club] High speed wind

            > <html><body>
            >
            >
            > <tt>
            > > I<BR>
            > > must insist that the current that makes our magnetic poles is the
            > SE and<BR>
            > > that its positioning in and around the ice poles is not an
            > accident<BR>
            > > because the SE is coming from and going to the Sun. <BR>
            > <BR>
            > We disagree in this, Walter.  The Earth's magnetic field is
            > generated<BR>
            > from within, not created from the outside.<BR>
            > <BR>

            I disagree. The double dymino theory is flawed in that it does not have
            a biological aspect.


            > > It is inducting the<BR>
            > > Magnetic field, which in turn is inducing what you have been<BR>
            > describing. <BR>
            > <BR>
            > Now here, you have something.  The Earth's magnetic field is<BR>
            > definitely influenced by the sun.  No doubt about that.\<BR>
            > <BR>
            > > The equator turning motion on the Sun is East to West, meaning
            > that the<BR>
            > > major electric flow direction is from its north to South. 
            > <BR>

            The problem with this idea is that the earth's EMF flips from time to
            time.

            Gaia would explain this in terms of strike activity causing amplification
            going the other way depending on biological conditions.



            > <BR>
            > Whoops!  You got that one backwards.  The Earth's magnetic
            > field lines<BR>
            > emerge at the south pole and re-enter at the north pole, which
            > means<BR>
            > that the north pole is actually the aouth pole.  Confused yet?<BR>
            > <BR>
            > > CMEs are not the SE, but<BR>
            > > are like shot from gun - particles.  <BR>
            > <BR>
            > Yes, that is correct.  Specifically they are a blast of plasma
            > from<BR>
            > the sun's corona, as opposed to the solar wind, which originated
            > from<BR>
            > lower down beneath the corona.<BR>
            > <BR>
            > > The SE isn't the current that is<BR>
            > > blasting through the Sun and holding our Solarsystem by its flow
            > through<BR>
            > > our Sun in its position in our galaxy.  The SE is a residual
            > flow around<BR>
            > > the blasting flow from and to the galaxy.  <BR>
            > <BR>
            > I'm not quite sure what you're referring to.  There is such a
            > thing as<BR>
            > an interstellar wind, believe it or not.  It is a very tenuous,
            > but<BR>
            > high speed flow of particles that is generated by supernova<BR>
            > explosions.  It permeates the entire galaxy.  Where our sun's
            > solar<BR>
            > wind is finally stopped by the interstellar wind is known as the<BR>
            > heliopause.  With a little luck, Voyager 1 and 2 may survive
            > long<BR>
            > enough to reach that point and report back their findings. 

            This is cool. BUT in relation to the earth's EMF and the 'SE' the solar
            wind is VERY small as a current. What is more important is the
            relationship between convection and charge separation and the cirrus
            sorting that does occur from the solar pulse. What this relationship is
            and how the biosphere modulates these currents eventually determines the
            earth's EMF.


            > The<BR>
            > heliopause is considered the true boundary of interstellar space. <BR>
            > Excactly where the heliopause is isn't really known.  In fact,
            > it's<BR>
            > probably somewhat dynamic, moving in and out with the sunspot
            > cycles.<BR>
            > <BR>
            > <BR>
            > <BR>
            > </tt>
            >
            > <br>
            >
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          • mike
            WOODS HOLE, Massachusetts, February 26, 2003 (ENS) - New research suggests that warming oceans could cause intense eruptions of methane from the sea floor,
            Message 5 of 7 , Mar 3 10:40 AM
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              WOODS HOLE, Massachusetts, February 26, 2003 (ENS) - New research
              suggests that warming oceans could cause "intense eruptions" of methane
              from the sea floor, leading to "catastrophic" global warming.
              Scientists have found new evidence indicating that during periods of
              rapid climate warming, methane gas has been released from the seafloor in
              intense eruptions. In a study published in the current issue of the
              journal "Science," Kai-Uwe Hinrichs and colleagues Laura Hmelo and Sean
              Sylva of the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution (WHOI) provide a direct
              link between methane reservoirs in coastal marine sediments and the
              global carbon cycle, an indicator of global warming and cooling.

              Molecular fossils from methane consuming bacteria found in sediments in
              the Santa Barbara Basin off California deposited during the last glacial
              period - 70,000 to 12,000 years ago - indicate that large quantities of
              methane were emitted from the seafloor during warmer phases of the last
              ice age. Methane, one of the major greenhouse gases, is stored on the
              seafloor as an ice like solid known as methane hydrate.

              Previous evidence for such massive eruptions was based on isotopic
              properties of calcite shells of foraminifera, microscopic marine animals
              called forams. Because a variety of factors could lead to very similar
              signals in their shells, that evidence has remained controversial.

              The preserved molecular remnants found by the WHOI team result from
              bacteria that fed exclusively on methane and indicate that large
              quantities of this powerful greenhouse gas were present in coastal waters
              off California. The team studied samples that were deposited between
              44,000 and 37,000 years ago.

              "For the first time, we are able to clearly establish a connection
              between distinct isotopic depletions in forams and high concentrations of
              methane in the fossil record," said Hinrichs, an assistant scientist in
              the Institution's Geology and Geophysics Department.

              "The large amounts of methane presumably released during one event about
              44,000 years ago suggest a mechanism different from those underlying the
              emissions at warmer periods, i.e. slow decomposition of methane hydrate
              triggered by warming of bottom waters," Hinrichs continued. "The sudden
              release of these enormous quantities of methane was probably caused by
              landslides and melting of the methane hydrate."

              Since there was already indirect evidence of methane eruptions in the
              Santa Barbara Basin area, Hinrichs and colleagues looked for fossil
              remnants of bacteria that would have flourished only under high
              concentrations of methane. In a 44,000 year old sediment sample, a
              distinct type of biomarker representing bacterial communities that
              oxidize methane in the absence of oxygen provided evidence for an abrupt,
              catastrophic release of methane, presumably trapped as hydrate below the
              sea floor.

              The WHOI team's data, from sediment cores taken by the Ocean Drilling
              Program off southern California, show that substantial quantities of
              methane were released at least several times during the past 60,000
              years, leading to periodic fluctuations in the levels of methane in deep
              waters in the Santa Barbara Basin.

              The researchers say increased bottom water temperatures could mobilize or
              release large amounts of methane hydrate in shallow waters. According to
              some current estimates, there are about 10,000 billion tons of methane
              stored beneath the ocean and on continents.

              In comparison, the contribution of humans to the atmosphere's inventory
              of greenhouse gases by fossil fuel burning amounts to about 200 billion
              tons of carbon in the form of carbon dioxide. If even a small portion of
              the stored methane were to escape into the atmosphere, the resulting
              greenhouse warming would be catastrophic.

              "It was a surprise to find this sort of evidence," said Hinrichs, who was
              looking for evidence indicating mechanisms other than methane. "Although
              this research tells us something about the amount of methane consumed by
              bacteria in the ocean, it doesn't tell us anything about methane
              emissions into the atmosphere because neither forams nor methane
              biomarkers record the portion of methane that escaped out of the ocean."

              "But one thing is for sure," he said, "our results clearly show that
              relatively minor environmental changes can have a major impact on
              sensitive coastal regions with yet unknown consequences for climate and
              biota."

              Hinrichs plans to look for similar evidence elsewhere to determine
              whether this process, as a driver of climate variation, happened
              simultaneously at other locations around the world. This work, he said,
              is just the beginning of better understanding of the role of methane in
              the carbon cycle and ultimately on climate on geologic time scales.

              "We have a very poor understanding of the biogeochemical mechanisms that
              control production, destruction and accumulation of methane in sediments
              underlying the ocean," Hinrichs said. "We need to understand the big
              picture of what drives methane and the carbon cycle and the actual impact
              of methane emissions from hydrates on climate."

              Comment:

              In the late 1990s when I first started researching climate a runnaway
              methane hydrate meltdown was one of the biggest concerns. In April 2000
              Clinton signed the methane hydrate research bill--which passed Congress
              without a vote in opposition--giving 5 million a year in research over
              the next 10 years. In contrast, the Japanese spend 50 million in
              research. Then I spoke frequently with Dendy Sloan, from the Colorado
              School of Mines, about phase change energies and then later about the EMF
              consequences of the hydrates. One of the key things that should be
              understood is that methane in the ocean is like pure food to many
              creatures there--and is consumed rapidly. Further, the methane is DEEP in
              the ocean and dissolves almost immediately. The best research is on the
              McKenzie River delta along the near shore ocean, where coring over 1,000
              meters under the ocean surface have revealed microbrial communities! As
              it turns out, the mass of the biosphere under the surface of the ocean
              rivals the microbrial biosphere on the terresphere. So when humans farm
              the land and add chemicals and fertilizers and so forth and it runs off--
              it goes to an equally large biosphere! At this time it is too energy
              costly and costly to harvest the hydrates--and all climate concerns are
              of the CO2 as a GHG concern--which is flat wrong.

              The key feature here relative to this research and a potential for
              climate change is the mobility and containment of conductity altering
              materials by the biosphere. Hydrates are EMF insulating. Think--rubber.
              Contained biology is conductive--think wire. Water and methane quickly
              turns to dissolved methane and salt water in the deeps of the oceans--
              which are conductive. The impact on large scale EMF of large scale
              changes brought on by massive FEILDS of hydrates would be significant to
              these waves and how they move from ionosphere to cloud to ocean/sea and
              back up.

              These are the electrical properties that will QUICKLY alter climate.
              Witness the fires and drought in the SW and the Colorado River and Sea of
              Cortez/Gulf of California.

              This is what is the concern in the SOC/GOC--where there are hydrates,
              when we build a Hoover dam (that helps cause a Dust Bowl) or don't let
              any biological material flow down it under CAP and Mexican water usage of
              the Colorado River on their side of the border. The resulting fair
              weather over the GOC and the drought, fires in the SW should be no
              surprise. Equally of no surprise is once upwellings occur that the
              biological activity would be intense and storms like those in Arizona--
              the snows there, should occur like they are at this time.

              Read--extremes (drought and precip events) with hydrate melting events
              BUT as long as the hydrate fields are there--MODULATION by them. IOW
              extremes of MODULATION. Not the way chaos idiots

              look at the problem. Interestingly, at the end of the Wisconsonian--as it
              was peaking 20,000 years ago BP, west of Italy there were hydrate fields
              that unformed as the oceans were at a low point. 10,000 years later very
              powerful volcano erupted in the region, and the glacial ended and 14,000
              years later the Sahara turned to dust. What did those hydrate fields mean
              to climate in the region? I suspect MUCH. Current directions and
              induction values, EMF insulation, EMF conductivities--all would mean more
              precipatation in the region.

              The Mediterranean is now the perhaps strongest fair weather water body on
              earth, with the nearby central Africa the most struck region on earth. If
              anyone wants a graph of worldwide strikes that show this--I have a link I
              could look up.

              It's all electrical and biological, baby.
            • foryeshua1@juno.com
              David, Thank you! You are a blessing! May God continue to increase our knowledge of His wonders. Amen! Walter On Mon, 03 Mar 2003 03:55:59 -0000 David
              Message 6 of 7 , Mar 3 4:54 PM
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                David, Thank you! You are a blessing! May God continue to increase our
                knowledge of His wonders. Amen! Walter

                On Mon, 03 Mar 2003 03:55:59 -0000 "David <b1blancer1@...>"
                <b1blancer1@...> writes:
                Walter, we may not agree with everything you have to say, but that
                doesn't mean we aren't listening. You're one of the few active people
                in this group, and I for one would like you to stay.



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              • foryeshua1@juno.com
                Ok, Lets try this again. . . On Mon, 03 Mar 2003 04:22:08 -0000 David ... and ... We disagree in this, Walter. The Earth s
                Message 7 of 7 , Mar 3 5:50 PM
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                  Ok, Lets try this again. . .

                  On Mon, 03 Mar 2003 04:22:08 -0000 "David <b1blancer1@...>"
                  <b1blancer1@...> writes:
                  > I
                  > must insist that the current that makes our magnetic poles is the SE
                  and
                  > that its positioning in and around the ice poles is not an accident
                  > because the SE is coming from and going to the Sun.

                  We disagree in this, Walter. The Earth's magnetic field is generated
                  from within, not created from the outside.

                  > It is inducting the
                  > Magnetic field, which in turn is inducing what you have been
                  describing.

                  Now here, you have something. The Earth's magnetic field is
                  definitely influenced by the sun. No doubt about that.\

                  > The equator turning motion on the Sun is East to West, meaning that the
                  > major electric flow direction is from its north to South.

                  Whoops! You got that one backwards. The Earth's magnetic field lines
                  emerge at the south pole and re-enter at the north pole, which means
                  that the north pole is actually the South pole. Confused yet?
                  Ok lets try again. In my understanding the Sun's spots appear to us
                  to be twisting from East to West as we look at it. According to the
                  right hand rule its rotation turning would be caused by a current flowing
                  from its North to its South. This current when it flows out its South
                  comes out and around in an eddy current through its planets and back to
                  the Sun. As it comes up through the Earth it twists our rotation in
                  (according the right hand rule) in a West to East rotation. All of the
                  meteorites that land on the South pole that come from space come there
                  because of this flow. The clarity of the air in this area is clear
                  because this Solar Electrojet current charges all particles and takes
                  them down to the ice. The circumpolar current around the South pole is
                  in the direction of the same twist of the earth, West to East. It is
                  going that direction because the SE is spinning it in that direction.
                  Now if you insist that the magnetic field lines are coming out of the
                  South pole and going around to the North, then it must be induced to do
                  so because of Solar Electrojet going from the South to the North. In my
                  way of thinking the currents that drive our compasses are basically
                  surface flow of solar electrojet, which hasn't been generated by the
                  Earth at all, but are coming in from the Sun and flowing over the surface
                  of the earth as well as up through the center, causing its great stirring
                  and heating. In order to prove this point we will have to drill a hole in
                  the center of the South pole and see which way current flows in it. If
                  the current flows into the South pole as well as up towards the North
                  over the surface of the earth than it is SE. If the current flows up out
                  of and around the earth Northerly, then it is generated by the earth and
                  is doing what you say. This would not make sense for it would be turning
                  the earth in the opposite direction according to the right hand rule. If
                  you put your right thumb up into the South pole indicating the direction
                  of the direct current flow that is inducing the secondary field twist in
                  the right hand direction and is turning the earth from West to East. (as
                  it does). If the magnetic flow which is according to my thinking
                  generated by the SE is going in that direction down the center, then it
                  is Not causing the earth to rotate because of its flow, because it would
                  be turning the earth the other direction. The same direction that the Sun
                  turns. One other proof of the SE coming in and up through the South, is
                  the shape of the ozone hole itself.. It is shaped by the SE's passage by
                  the South Ice cap, for it goes into the earth around the ice cap and into
                  the earth. Its path through the Ozone hole is guided by its direction of
                  path down and around the ice cap shape. Too bad the bays in the South ice
                  pole that were there a few years ago are not still there, for they would
                  show distinct shape in the ozone hole that would be unmistakable. As it
                  is I think you can still see the shape. Walter
                  > CMEs are not the SE, but
                  > are like shot from gun - particles.

                  Yes, that is correct. Specifically they are a blast of plasma from
                  the sun's corona, as opposed to the solar wind, which originated from
                  lower down beneath the corona.

                  > The SE isn't the current that is
                  > blasting through the Sun and holding our Solarsystem by its flow
                  through
                  > our Sun in its position in our galaxy. The SE is a residual flow
                  around
                  > the blasting flow from and to the galaxy.

                  I'm not quite sure what you're referring to. There is such a thing as
                  an interstellar wind, believe it or not. It is a very tenuous, but
                  high speed flow of particles that is generated by supernova
                  explosions. It permeates the entire galaxy. Where our sun's solar
                  wind is finally stopped by the interstellar wind is known as the
                  heliopause. With a little luck, Voyager 1 and 2 may survive long
                  enough to reach that point and report back their findings. The
                  heliopause is considered the true boundary of interstellar space.
                  Excactly where the heliopause is isn't really known. In fact, it's
                  probably somewhat dynamic, moving in and out with the sunspot cycles.





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