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Re: On the Baltic Sea freezing hard this winter:

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  • fredwx1 <fredwx1@yahoo.com>
    Another factor is that the North Atlantic Oscillation has gone negitive this winter Negative NAO Index: The negative NAO index phase shows a weak subtropical
    Message 1 of 4 , Feb 7, 2003
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      Another factor is that the North Atlantic Oscillation has gone
      negitive this winter

      Negative NAO Index:
      The negative NAO index phase shows a weak subtropical high and a weak
      Icelandic low.

      The reduced pressure gradient results in fewer and weaker winter
      storms crossing on a more west-east pathway.

      They bring moist air into the Mediterranean and cold air to northern
      Europe (Baltic Sea freezes?)

      The US east coast experiences more cold air outbreaks and hence snowy
      weather. (Bingo this year)

      --- In methanehydrateclub@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Doran <mike@u...>"
      <mike@u...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > http://www.helsinki-hs.net/news.asp?id=20030108IE1
      >
      > Thanks to the cold weather of recent weeks, the ice cover along the
      > Finnish coasts is more extensive than in decades. Experts say that
      > the whole Baltic Sea could freeze over all the way to the Straits
      of
      > Denmark, for the first time since 1948.
      >
      > Here is a link that monitors the ice:
      >
      > http://www2.fimr.fi/en/palvelut/jaapalvelu/jaatilanne.html
      >
      > Some Gaia comments.
      >
      > First, it is my view that one of the things that has kept us out of
      a
      > neo glacial is the Black Sea. What happened is that about 7,000
      years
      > ago as we emerged from the Milankovitch solar insOlation cycle peak
      > that melted ice that had covered 1/3 of the terresphere down to
      about
      > 10%, the area which is the Black Sea, which was a smaller glacial
      > fresh water lake, flooded with sea water. Indeed, this became the
      > legand of Noah in some scholar's opinions, and this is an opinion
      > with which I tend to agree.
      > But my Gaia take is that the rains FOLLOWED the back flood. The
      idea
      > is simple. Once an inland sea, the Black Sea became a conductive
      body
      > that enhanced cirrus clouds electrically in the region. It is large
      > enough to even have inducting surface current movements! Moreover,
      > algae blooms can add to the dynamic--as biological containment of
      > more conductive ions occurs over the diffusive processes of random
      > chemistry of the lake. A fresh water lake is apt to freeze over in
      > the winter and has different stratification cooling than a salt
      lake
      > does. Once there is ice, it not only has hard albedo values but ice
      > is EMF insulating. [For more on this visit our yahoo group and
      search
      > Noah--I have several comments and links on the Black Sea, Noah
      myth,
      > and Gaia].
      >
      > When the Baltic freezes like this--it has the duel impact of ending
      > conduction and causing albedo change based surface reflection to
      > decrease the amount of energy retained on the surface. This is part
      > of the cold we have experianced this winter, in a so-called El Nino
      > year (it's electrically more a nuetral winter in the Pacific).
      >
      > In the summer time there is still enough Milankovitch insOlation
      that
      > the ice can melt and algae forms on the surface. This increases the
      > conductivity and hence the ability of Doran waves to move and
      > feedback rain. So, the second link is doubly a good link for living
      > earth feedbacks in the region . .
      >
      >
      > The tropical storm implications are related, IMHO, to how the algae
      > blooms proceed AFTER and before the melting of the ice, and in
      > relationship to it. Upwelling of nutrient rich materials start
      these
      > blooms, and in the fall when the TS hit there are areas that were
      > once EMF conductive that suddenly are NOT. This creates EMF
      > instabilities in the Doran wave activities and that means severe
      > weather, including TSs.
    • Mike Doran <mike@usinter.net>
      Hi Fred: IMHO the NAO is EMF related too, w/ fair weather and convective regions defined by biological activity and persistant EMFs--that tends to modulate
      Message 2 of 4 , Feb 7, 2003
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        Hi Fred:

        IMHO the NAO is EMF related too, w/ fair weather and convective
        regions defined by biological activity and persistant EMFs--that
        tends to modulate chemistry and upwelling conditions. Here is some
        more of the same topic from another bb--I respond not there but here:

        http://www.cfis.org/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000641.html

        wehappyfew Member posted 02-05-2003 11:20 PM writes:

        "Baltic drainage glaciers:
        http://nsidc.org/data/glacier_inventory/scandinavia.html

        It looks like you are correct - the Atlantic Ocean captures most of
        the Scandinavian glaciers."

        My comments:

        There are bigtime Gaia reasons for this. Fresher water bodies are not
        going to have the salinity to conduct large scale EMFs as well--and
        are likely to be colder in the winter when snow is laid, not rain.
        EMFs from biological activity isn't going to happen due to upwelling
        patterns and algae's seasonal patterns. It's all electrical and
        biological.

        "Baltic drainage glaciers do exist, though. "

        Only from its proximaty to Atlantic gaia feedbacks.

        "Nevertheless, I suspect the total amount of meltwater from even a
        rapidly melting collection of glaciers would be negligible compared
        to the normal rainfall in the Baltic basin. "

        SUMMER precip differs markedly from winter--again indicating the
        electrical and biological nature of things.


        "I'll accept your hypothesis of unusually high rainfall last summer
        as the culprit for lowered salinity leading to increased freezing
        (assuming salinity is, in fact, lower). "

        There are some important CME, electrical things going on with respect
        to the sun and the double peak top we had last year in the solar
        flaring cycle and those storms. And as you move more toward the poles
        in either direction there is an electrical idea that must be
        introduced. Now, I have mentioned how charge separation of convection
        acts like an amplifying transister in that you get an input signal
        from a solar wind pulse of protons and that causes Doran waves that
        go first from the south to the north, and the induction averages to
        actually produce the current in the earth that comprises the earth's
        EMF, the amplification is so strong and bio modulated.

        Now, there is a question if there can be weather in the further
        northern reaches how can solar activity both cause the wave in non
        convective, not EMF distorting areas of charge separation and yet
        have storms that ARE EMF distorting compared to the solar input.

        The best answer is "back EMF". IOW once a storm ends from the tropics
        back there will be a short EMF burst. IMHO this is where you will see
        cyclonic activity start . . .

        "But the other big factor in Baltic salinity is wind and weather
        driving big blobs of normal ocean salinity water through the Denmark
        Straits in a highly irregular and episodic fashion. I believe it has
        been several years, if not decades since the last big infusion of
        ocean water. "

        Persistant wind patterns are part of a living earth. Indeed, more
        chaotic winds would dictate saline conditions, but the sustained
        winds are more about a living earth.

        "I contend the Baltic is too heavily influenced by these factors to
        draw global warming/cooling conclusions from... but you knew that
        already, didn't you? "

        And that contention would be wrong because just the glacial layout
        tells you about Gaia, and the flooding anomalies and freezing
        anomalies tell you Gaia poor--as in poorly modulated.

        wehappyfew Member posted 02-06-2003 10:20 PM also writes:

        "The only reason Scandinavia and Northern Europe don't have the same
        climate as the Hudson Bay is the Gulf Stream. If the Gulf Stream
        circulation changes, the climate of Scandinavia changes - maybe
        dramatically."

        No. The Gulf Stream brings warm and saline waters--but hardly has
        enough energy to cause the warming in the place it does. What REALLy
        is occurring is warm salty water is more EMF conductive and it
        carries conductively charges from charge separating storm activity
        further south and further causes upwelling of biological material to
        go along with the sinking of salty waters that have had surface
        waters evaporated away. This allows Doran waves to extend far north.
        Cirrus are enhanced and cause uplifting of air and surface lows.


        --- In methanehydrateclub@yahoogroups.com, "fredwx1 <fredwx1@y...>"
        <fredwx1@y...> wrote:
        > Another factor is that the North Atlantic Oscillation has gone
        > negitive this winter
        >
        > Negative NAO Index:
        > The negative NAO index phase shows a weak subtropical high and a
        weak
        > Icelandic low.
        >
        > The reduced pressure gradient results in fewer and weaker winter
        > storms crossing on a more west-east pathway.
        >
        > They bring moist air into the Mediterranean and cold air to
        northern
        > Europe (Baltic Sea freezes?)
        >
        > The US east coast experiences more cold air outbreaks and hence
        snowy
        > weather. (Bingo this year)
        >
        > --- In methanehydrateclub@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Doran <mike@u...>"
        > <mike@u...> wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > > http://www.helsinki-hs.net/news.asp?id=20030108IE1
        > >
        > > Thanks to the cold weather of recent weeks, the ice cover along
        the
        > > Finnish coasts is more extensive than in decades. Experts say
        that
        > > the whole Baltic Sea could freeze over all the way to the Straits
        > of
        > > Denmark, for the first time since 1948.
        > >
        > > Here is a link that monitors the ice:
        > >
        > > http://www2.fimr.fi/en/palvelut/jaapalvelu/jaatilanne.html
        > >
        > > Some Gaia comments.
        > >
        > > First, it is my view that one of the things that has kept us out
        of
        > a
        > > neo glacial is the Black Sea. What happened is that about 7,000
        > years
        > > ago as we emerged from the Milankovitch solar insOlation cycle
        peak
        > > that melted ice that had covered 1/3 of the terresphere down to
        > about
        > > 10%, the area which is the Black Sea, which was a smaller glacial
        > > fresh water lake, flooded with sea water. Indeed, this became the
        > > legand of Noah in some scholar's opinions, and this is an opinion
        > > with which I tend to agree.
        > > But my Gaia take is that the rains FOLLOWED the back flood. The
        > idea
        > > is simple. Once an inland sea, the Black Sea became a conductive
        > body
        > > that enhanced cirrus clouds electrically in the region. It is
        large
        > > enough to even have inducting surface current movements!
        Moreover,
        > > algae blooms can add to the dynamic--as biological containment of
        > > more conductive ions occurs over the diffusive processes of
        random
        > > chemistry of the lake. A fresh water lake is apt to freeze over
        in
        > > the winter and has different stratification cooling than a salt
        > lake
        > > does. Once there is ice, it not only has hard albedo values but
        ice
        > > is EMF insulating. [For more on this visit our yahoo group and
        > search
        > > Noah--I have several comments and links on the Black Sea, Noah
        > myth,
        > > and Gaia].
        > >
        > > When the Baltic freezes like this--it has the duel impact of
        ending
        > > conduction and causing albedo change based surface reflection to
        > > decrease the amount of energy retained on the surface. This is
        part
        > > of the cold we have experianced this winter, in a so-called El
        Nino
        > > year (it's electrically more a nuetral winter in the Pacific).
        > >
        > > In the summer time there is still enough Milankovitch insOlation
        > that
        > > the ice can melt and algae forms on the surface. This increases
        the
        > > conductivity and hence the ability of Doran waves to move and
        > > feedback rain. So, the second link is doubly a good link for
        living
        > > earth feedbacks in the region . .
        > >
        > >
        > > The tropical storm implications are related, IMHO, to how the
        algae
        > > blooms proceed AFTER and before the melting of the ice, and in
        > > relationship to it. Upwelling of nutrient rich materials start
        > these
        > > blooms, and in the fall when the TS hit there are areas that were
        > > once EMF conductive that suddenly are NOT. This creates EMF
        > > instabilities in the Doran wave activities and that means severe
        > > weather, including TSs.
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