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Re: On the Baltic Sea freezing hard this winter:

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  • fredwx1 <fredwx1@yahoo.com>
    I wonder if this has anything to do with a slowing of the gulf stream currents which are strong candidate for initiating ice ages. ... of ... a ... years ...
    Message 1 of 4 , Feb 7, 2003
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      I wonder if this has anything to do with a slowing of the gulf stream
      currents which are strong candidate for initiating ice ages.

      --- In methanehydrateclub@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Doran <mike@u...>"
      <mike@u...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > http://www.helsinki-hs.net/news.asp?id=20030108IE1
      >
      > Thanks to the cold weather of recent weeks, the ice cover along the
      > Finnish coasts is more extensive than in decades. Experts say that
      > the whole Baltic Sea could freeze over all the way to the Straits
      of
      > Denmark, for the first time since 1948.
      >
      > Here is a link that monitors the ice:
      >
      > http://www2.fimr.fi/en/palvelut/jaapalvelu/jaatilanne.html
      >
      > Some Gaia comments.
      >
      > First, it is my view that one of the things that has kept us out of
      a
      > neo glacial is the Black Sea. What happened is that about 7,000
      years
      > ago as we emerged from the Milankovitch solar insOlation cycle peak
      > that melted ice that had covered 1/3 of the terresphere down to
      about
      > 10%, the area which is the Black Sea, which was a smaller glacial
      > fresh water lake, flooded with sea water. Indeed, this became the
      > legand of Noah in some scholar's opinions, and this is an opinion
      > with which I tend to agree.
      > But my Gaia take is that the rains FOLLOWED the back flood. The
      idea
      > is simple. Once an inland sea, the Black Sea became a conductive
      body
      > that enhanced cirrus clouds electrically in the region. It is large
      > enough to even have inducting surface current movements! Moreover,
      > algae blooms can add to the dynamic--as biological containment of
      > more conductive ions occurs over the diffusive processes of random
      > chemistry of the lake. A fresh water lake is apt to freeze over in
      > the winter and has different stratification cooling than a salt
      lake
      > does. Once there is ice, it not only has hard albedo values but ice
      > is EMF insulating. [For more on this visit our yahoo group and
      search
      > Noah--I have several comments and links on the Black Sea, Noah
      myth,
      > and Gaia].
      >
      > When the Baltic freezes like this--it has the duel impact of ending
      > conduction and causing albedo change based surface reflection to
      > decrease the amount of energy retained on the surface. This is part
      > of the cold we have experianced this winter, in a so-called El Nino
      > year (it's electrically more a nuetral winter in the Pacific).
      >
      > In the summer time there is still enough Milankovitch insOlation
      that
      > the ice can melt and algae forms on the surface. This increases the
      > conductivity and hence the ability of Doran waves to move and
      > feedback rain. So, the second link is doubly a good link for living
      > earth feedbacks in the region . .
      >
      >
      > The tropical storm implications are related, IMHO, to how the algae
      > blooms proceed AFTER and before the melting of the ice, and in
      > relationship to it. Upwelling of nutrient rich materials start
      these
      > blooms, and in the fall when the TS hit there are areas that were
      > once EMF conductive that suddenly are NOT. This creates EMF
      > instabilities in the Doran wave activities and that means severe
      > weather, including TSs.
    • fredwx1 <fredwx1@yahoo.com>
      Another factor is that the North Atlantic Oscillation has gone negitive this winter Negative NAO Index: The negative NAO index phase shows a weak subtropical
      Message 2 of 4 , Feb 7, 2003
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        Another factor is that the North Atlantic Oscillation has gone
        negitive this winter

        Negative NAO Index:
        The negative NAO index phase shows a weak subtropical high and a weak
        Icelandic low.

        The reduced pressure gradient results in fewer and weaker winter
        storms crossing on a more west-east pathway.

        They bring moist air into the Mediterranean and cold air to northern
        Europe (Baltic Sea freezes?)

        The US east coast experiences more cold air outbreaks and hence snowy
        weather. (Bingo this year)

        --- In methanehydrateclub@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Doran <mike@u...>"
        <mike@u...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > http://www.helsinki-hs.net/news.asp?id=20030108IE1
        >
        > Thanks to the cold weather of recent weeks, the ice cover along the
        > Finnish coasts is more extensive than in decades. Experts say that
        > the whole Baltic Sea could freeze over all the way to the Straits
        of
        > Denmark, for the first time since 1948.
        >
        > Here is a link that monitors the ice:
        >
        > http://www2.fimr.fi/en/palvelut/jaapalvelu/jaatilanne.html
        >
        > Some Gaia comments.
        >
        > First, it is my view that one of the things that has kept us out of
        a
        > neo glacial is the Black Sea. What happened is that about 7,000
        years
        > ago as we emerged from the Milankovitch solar insOlation cycle peak
        > that melted ice that had covered 1/3 of the terresphere down to
        about
        > 10%, the area which is the Black Sea, which was a smaller glacial
        > fresh water lake, flooded with sea water. Indeed, this became the
        > legand of Noah in some scholar's opinions, and this is an opinion
        > with which I tend to agree.
        > But my Gaia take is that the rains FOLLOWED the back flood. The
        idea
        > is simple. Once an inland sea, the Black Sea became a conductive
        body
        > that enhanced cirrus clouds electrically in the region. It is large
        > enough to even have inducting surface current movements! Moreover,
        > algae blooms can add to the dynamic--as biological containment of
        > more conductive ions occurs over the diffusive processes of random
        > chemistry of the lake. A fresh water lake is apt to freeze over in
        > the winter and has different stratification cooling than a salt
        lake
        > does. Once there is ice, it not only has hard albedo values but ice
        > is EMF insulating. [For more on this visit our yahoo group and
        search
        > Noah--I have several comments and links on the Black Sea, Noah
        myth,
        > and Gaia].
        >
        > When the Baltic freezes like this--it has the duel impact of ending
        > conduction and causing albedo change based surface reflection to
        > decrease the amount of energy retained on the surface. This is part
        > of the cold we have experianced this winter, in a so-called El Nino
        > year (it's electrically more a nuetral winter in the Pacific).
        >
        > In the summer time there is still enough Milankovitch insOlation
        that
        > the ice can melt and algae forms on the surface. This increases the
        > conductivity and hence the ability of Doran waves to move and
        > feedback rain. So, the second link is doubly a good link for living
        > earth feedbacks in the region . .
        >
        >
        > The tropical storm implications are related, IMHO, to how the algae
        > blooms proceed AFTER and before the melting of the ice, and in
        > relationship to it. Upwelling of nutrient rich materials start
        these
        > blooms, and in the fall when the TS hit there are areas that were
        > once EMF conductive that suddenly are NOT. This creates EMF
        > instabilities in the Doran wave activities and that means severe
        > weather, including TSs.
      • Mike Doran <mike@usinter.net>
        Hi Fred: IMHO the NAO is EMF related too, w/ fair weather and convective regions defined by biological activity and persistant EMFs--that tends to modulate
        Message 3 of 4 , Feb 7, 2003
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          Hi Fred:

          IMHO the NAO is EMF related too, w/ fair weather and convective
          regions defined by biological activity and persistant EMFs--that
          tends to modulate chemistry and upwelling conditions. Here is some
          more of the same topic from another bb--I respond not there but here:

          http://www.cfis.org/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000641.html

          wehappyfew Member posted 02-05-2003 11:20 PM writes:

          "Baltic drainage glaciers:
          http://nsidc.org/data/glacier_inventory/scandinavia.html

          It looks like you are correct - the Atlantic Ocean captures most of
          the Scandinavian glaciers."

          My comments:

          There are bigtime Gaia reasons for this. Fresher water bodies are not
          going to have the salinity to conduct large scale EMFs as well--and
          are likely to be colder in the winter when snow is laid, not rain.
          EMFs from biological activity isn't going to happen due to upwelling
          patterns and algae's seasonal patterns. It's all electrical and
          biological.

          "Baltic drainage glaciers do exist, though. "

          Only from its proximaty to Atlantic gaia feedbacks.

          "Nevertheless, I suspect the total amount of meltwater from even a
          rapidly melting collection of glaciers would be negligible compared
          to the normal rainfall in the Baltic basin. "

          SUMMER precip differs markedly from winter--again indicating the
          electrical and biological nature of things.


          "I'll accept your hypothesis of unusually high rainfall last summer
          as the culprit for lowered salinity leading to increased freezing
          (assuming salinity is, in fact, lower). "

          There are some important CME, electrical things going on with respect
          to the sun and the double peak top we had last year in the solar
          flaring cycle and those storms. And as you move more toward the poles
          in either direction there is an electrical idea that must be
          introduced. Now, I have mentioned how charge separation of convection
          acts like an amplifying transister in that you get an input signal
          from a solar wind pulse of protons and that causes Doran waves that
          go first from the south to the north, and the induction averages to
          actually produce the current in the earth that comprises the earth's
          EMF, the amplification is so strong and bio modulated.

          Now, there is a question if there can be weather in the further
          northern reaches how can solar activity both cause the wave in non
          convective, not EMF distorting areas of charge separation and yet
          have storms that ARE EMF distorting compared to the solar input.

          The best answer is "back EMF". IOW once a storm ends from the tropics
          back there will be a short EMF burst. IMHO this is where you will see
          cyclonic activity start . . .

          "But the other big factor in Baltic salinity is wind and weather
          driving big blobs of normal ocean salinity water through the Denmark
          Straits in a highly irregular and episodic fashion. I believe it has
          been several years, if not decades since the last big infusion of
          ocean water. "

          Persistant wind patterns are part of a living earth. Indeed, more
          chaotic winds would dictate saline conditions, but the sustained
          winds are more about a living earth.

          "I contend the Baltic is too heavily influenced by these factors to
          draw global warming/cooling conclusions from... but you knew that
          already, didn't you? "

          And that contention would be wrong because just the glacial layout
          tells you about Gaia, and the flooding anomalies and freezing
          anomalies tell you Gaia poor--as in poorly modulated.

          wehappyfew Member posted 02-06-2003 10:20 PM also writes:

          "The only reason Scandinavia and Northern Europe don't have the same
          climate as the Hudson Bay is the Gulf Stream. If the Gulf Stream
          circulation changes, the climate of Scandinavia changes - maybe
          dramatically."

          No. The Gulf Stream brings warm and saline waters--but hardly has
          enough energy to cause the warming in the place it does. What REALLy
          is occurring is warm salty water is more EMF conductive and it
          carries conductively charges from charge separating storm activity
          further south and further causes upwelling of biological material to
          go along with the sinking of salty waters that have had surface
          waters evaporated away. This allows Doran waves to extend far north.
          Cirrus are enhanced and cause uplifting of air and surface lows.


          --- In methanehydrateclub@yahoogroups.com, "fredwx1 <fredwx1@y...>"
          <fredwx1@y...> wrote:
          > Another factor is that the North Atlantic Oscillation has gone
          > negitive this winter
          >
          > Negative NAO Index:
          > The negative NAO index phase shows a weak subtropical high and a
          weak
          > Icelandic low.
          >
          > The reduced pressure gradient results in fewer and weaker winter
          > storms crossing on a more west-east pathway.
          >
          > They bring moist air into the Mediterranean and cold air to
          northern
          > Europe (Baltic Sea freezes?)
          >
          > The US east coast experiences more cold air outbreaks and hence
          snowy
          > weather. (Bingo this year)
          >
          > --- In methanehydrateclub@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Doran <mike@u...>"
          > <mike@u...> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > http://www.helsinki-hs.net/news.asp?id=20030108IE1
          > >
          > > Thanks to the cold weather of recent weeks, the ice cover along
          the
          > > Finnish coasts is more extensive than in decades. Experts say
          that
          > > the whole Baltic Sea could freeze over all the way to the Straits
          > of
          > > Denmark, for the first time since 1948.
          > >
          > > Here is a link that monitors the ice:
          > >
          > > http://www2.fimr.fi/en/palvelut/jaapalvelu/jaatilanne.html
          > >
          > > Some Gaia comments.
          > >
          > > First, it is my view that one of the things that has kept us out
          of
          > a
          > > neo glacial is the Black Sea. What happened is that about 7,000
          > years
          > > ago as we emerged from the Milankovitch solar insOlation cycle
          peak
          > > that melted ice that had covered 1/3 of the terresphere down to
          > about
          > > 10%, the area which is the Black Sea, which was a smaller glacial
          > > fresh water lake, flooded with sea water. Indeed, this became the
          > > legand of Noah in some scholar's opinions, and this is an opinion
          > > with which I tend to agree.
          > > But my Gaia take is that the rains FOLLOWED the back flood. The
          > idea
          > > is simple. Once an inland sea, the Black Sea became a conductive
          > body
          > > that enhanced cirrus clouds electrically in the region. It is
          large
          > > enough to even have inducting surface current movements!
          Moreover,
          > > algae blooms can add to the dynamic--as biological containment of
          > > more conductive ions occurs over the diffusive processes of
          random
          > > chemistry of the lake. A fresh water lake is apt to freeze over
          in
          > > the winter and has different stratification cooling than a salt
          > lake
          > > does. Once there is ice, it not only has hard albedo values but
          ice
          > > is EMF insulating. [For more on this visit our yahoo group and
          > search
          > > Noah--I have several comments and links on the Black Sea, Noah
          > myth,
          > > and Gaia].
          > >
          > > When the Baltic freezes like this--it has the duel impact of
          ending
          > > conduction and causing albedo change based surface reflection to
          > > decrease the amount of energy retained on the surface. This is
          part
          > > of the cold we have experianced this winter, in a so-called El
          Nino
          > > year (it's electrically more a nuetral winter in the Pacific).
          > >
          > > In the summer time there is still enough Milankovitch insOlation
          > that
          > > the ice can melt and algae forms on the surface. This increases
          the
          > > conductivity and hence the ability of Doran waves to move and
          > > feedback rain. So, the second link is doubly a good link for
          living
          > > earth feedbacks in the region . .
          > >
          > >
          > > The tropical storm implications are related, IMHO, to how the
          algae
          > > blooms proceed AFTER and before the melting of the ice, and in
          > > relationship to it. Upwelling of nutrient rich materials start
          > these
          > > blooms, and in the fall when the TS hit there are areas that were
          > > once EMF conductive that suddenly are NOT. This creates EMF
          > > instabilities in the Doran wave activities and that means severe
          > > weather, including TSs.
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