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On the Baltic Sea freezing hard this winter:

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  • Mike Doran <mike@usinter.net>
    http://www.helsinki-hs.net/news.asp?id=20030108IE1 Thanks to the cold weather of recent weeks, the ice cover along the Finnish coasts is more extensive than in
    Message 1 of 4 , Feb 5, 2003
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      http://www.helsinki-hs.net/news.asp?id=20030108IE1

      Thanks to the cold weather of recent weeks, the ice cover along the
      Finnish coasts is more extensive than in decades. Experts say that
      the whole Baltic Sea could freeze over all the way to the Straits of
      Denmark, for the first time since 1948.

      Here is a link that monitors the ice:

      http://www2.fimr.fi/en/palvelut/jaapalvelu/jaatilanne.html

      Some Gaia comments.

      First, it is my view that one of the things that has kept us out of a
      neo glacial is the Black Sea. What happened is that about 7,000 years
      ago as we emerged from the Milankovitch solar insOlation cycle peak
      that melted ice that had covered 1/3 of the terresphere down to about
      10%, the area which is the Black Sea, which was a smaller glacial
      fresh water lake, flooded with sea water. Indeed, this became the
      legand of Noah in some scholar's opinions, and this is an opinion
      with which I tend to agree.
      But my Gaia take is that the rains FOLLOWED the back flood. The idea
      is simple. Once an inland sea, the Black Sea became a conductive body
      that enhanced cirrus clouds electrically in the region. It is large
      enough to even have inducting surface current movements! Moreover,
      algae blooms can add to the dynamic--as biological containment of
      more conductive ions occurs over the diffusive processes of random
      chemistry of the lake. A fresh water lake is apt to freeze over in
      the winter and has different stratification cooling than a salt lake
      does. Once there is ice, it not only has hard albedo values but ice
      is EMF insulating. [For more on this visit our yahoo group and search
      Noah--I have several comments and links on the Black Sea, Noah myth,
      and Gaia].

      When the Baltic freezes like this--it has the duel impact of ending
      conduction and causing albedo change based surface reflection to
      decrease the amount of energy retained on the surface. This is part
      of the cold we have experianced this winter, in a so-called El Nino
      year (it's electrically more a nuetral winter in the Pacific).

      In the summer time there is still enough Milankovitch insOlation that
      the ice can melt and algae forms on the surface. This increases the
      conductivity and hence the ability of Doran waves to move and
      feedback rain. So, the second link is doubly a good link for living
      earth feedbacks in the region . .


      The tropical storm implications are related, IMHO, to how the algae
      blooms proceed AFTER and before the melting of the ice, and in
      relationship to it. Upwelling of nutrient rich materials start these
      blooms, and in the fall when the TS hit there are areas that were
      once EMF conductive that suddenly are NOT. This creates EMF
      instabilities in the Doran wave activities and that means severe
      weather, including TSs.
    • fredwx1 <fredwx1@yahoo.com>
      I wonder if this has anything to do with a slowing of the gulf stream currents which are strong candidate for initiating ice ages. ... of ... a ... years ...
      Message 2 of 4 , Feb 7, 2003
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        I wonder if this has anything to do with a slowing of the gulf stream
        currents which are strong candidate for initiating ice ages.

        --- In methanehydrateclub@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Doran <mike@u...>"
        <mike@u...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > http://www.helsinki-hs.net/news.asp?id=20030108IE1
        >
        > Thanks to the cold weather of recent weeks, the ice cover along the
        > Finnish coasts is more extensive than in decades. Experts say that
        > the whole Baltic Sea could freeze over all the way to the Straits
        of
        > Denmark, for the first time since 1948.
        >
        > Here is a link that monitors the ice:
        >
        > http://www2.fimr.fi/en/palvelut/jaapalvelu/jaatilanne.html
        >
        > Some Gaia comments.
        >
        > First, it is my view that one of the things that has kept us out of
        a
        > neo glacial is the Black Sea. What happened is that about 7,000
        years
        > ago as we emerged from the Milankovitch solar insOlation cycle peak
        > that melted ice that had covered 1/3 of the terresphere down to
        about
        > 10%, the area which is the Black Sea, which was a smaller glacial
        > fresh water lake, flooded with sea water. Indeed, this became the
        > legand of Noah in some scholar's opinions, and this is an opinion
        > with which I tend to agree.
        > But my Gaia take is that the rains FOLLOWED the back flood. The
        idea
        > is simple. Once an inland sea, the Black Sea became a conductive
        body
        > that enhanced cirrus clouds electrically in the region. It is large
        > enough to even have inducting surface current movements! Moreover,
        > algae blooms can add to the dynamic--as biological containment of
        > more conductive ions occurs over the diffusive processes of random
        > chemistry of the lake. A fresh water lake is apt to freeze over in
        > the winter and has different stratification cooling than a salt
        lake
        > does. Once there is ice, it not only has hard albedo values but ice
        > is EMF insulating. [For more on this visit our yahoo group and
        search
        > Noah--I have several comments and links on the Black Sea, Noah
        myth,
        > and Gaia].
        >
        > When the Baltic freezes like this--it has the duel impact of ending
        > conduction and causing albedo change based surface reflection to
        > decrease the amount of energy retained on the surface. This is part
        > of the cold we have experianced this winter, in a so-called El Nino
        > year (it's electrically more a nuetral winter in the Pacific).
        >
        > In the summer time there is still enough Milankovitch insOlation
        that
        > the ice can melt and algae forms on the surface. This increases the
        > conductivity and hence the ability of Doran waves to move and
        > feedback rain. So, the second link is doubly a good link for living
        > earth feedbacks in the region . .
        >
        >
        > The tropical storm implications are related, IMHO, to how the algae
        > blooms proceed AFTER and before the melting of the ice, and in
        > relationship to it. Upwelling of nutrient rich materials start
        these
        > blooms, and in the fall when the TS hit there are areas that were
        > once EMF conductive that suddenly are NOT. This creates EMF
        > instabilities in the Doran wave activities and that means severe
        > weather, including TSs.
      • fredwx1 <fredwx1@yahoo.com>
        Another factor is that the North Atlantic Oscillation has gone negitive this winter Negative NAO Index: The negative NAO index phase shows a weak subtropical
        Message 3 of 4 , Feb 7, 2003
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          Another factor is that the North Atlantic Oscillation has gone
          negitive this winter

          Negative NAO Index:
          The negative NAO index phase shows a weak subtropical high and a weak
          Icelandic low.

          The reduced pressure gradient results in fewer and weaker winter
          storms crossing on a more west-east pathway.

          They bring moist air into the Mediterranean and cold air to northern
          Europe (Baltic Sea freezes?)

          The US east coast experiences more cold air outbreaks and hence snowy
          weather. (Bingo this year)

          --- In methanehydrateclub@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Doran <mike@u...>"
          <mike@u...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > http://www.helsinki-hs.net/news.asp?id=20030108IE1
          >
          > Thanks to the cold weather of recent weeks, the ice cover along the
          > Finnish coasts is more extensive than in decades. Experts say that
          > the whole Baltic Sea could freeze over all the way to the Straits
          of
          > Denmark, for the first time since 1948.
          >
          > Here is a link that monitors the ice:
          >
          > http://www2.fimr.fi/en/palvelut/jaapalvelu/jaatilanne.html
          >
          > Some Gaia comments.
          >
          > First, it is my view that one of the things that has kept us out of
          a
          > neo glacial is the Black Sea. What happened is that about 7,000
          years
          > ago as we emerged from the Milankovitch solar insOlation cycle peak
          > that melted ice that had covered 1/3 of the terresphere down to
          about
          > 10%, the area which is the Black Sea, which was a smaller glacial
          > fresh water lake, flooded with sea water. Indeed, this became the
          > legand of Noah in some scholar's opinions, and this is an opinion
          > with which I tend to agree.
          > But my Gaia take is that the rains FOLLOWED the back flood. The
          idea
          > is simple. Once an inland sea, the Black Sea became a conductive
          body
          > that enhanced cirrus clouds electrically in the region. It is large
          > enough to even have inducting surface current movements! Moreover,
          > algae blooms can add to the dynamic--as biological containment of
          > more conductive ions occurs over the diffusive processes of random
          > chemistry of the lake. A fresh water lake is apt to freeze over in
          > the winter and has different stratification cooling than a salt
          lake
          > does. Once there is ice, it not only has hard albedo values but ice
          > is EMF insulating. [For more on this visit our yahoo group and
          search
          > Noah--I have several comments and links on the Black Sea, Noah
          myth,
          > and Gaia].
          >
          > When the Baltic freezes like this--it has the duel impact of ending
          > conduction and causing albedo change based surface reflection to
          > decrease the amount of energy retained on the surface. This is part
          > of the cold we have experianced this winter, in a so-called El Nino
          > year (it's electrically more a nuetral winter in the Pacific).
          >
          > In the summer time there is still enough Milankovitch insOlation
          that
          > the ice can melt and algae forms on the surface. This increases the
          > conductivity and hence the ability of Doran waves to move and
          > feedback rain. So, the second link is doubly a good link for living
          > earth feedbacks in the region . .
          >
          >
          > The tropical storm implications are related, IMHO, to how the algae
          > blooms proceed AFTER and before the melting of the ice, and in
          > relationship to it. Upwelling of nutrient rich materials start
          these
          > blooms, and in the fall when the TS hit there are areas that were
          > once EMF conductive that suddenly are NOT. This creates EMF
          > instabilities in the Doran wave activities and that means severe
          > weather, including TSs.
        • Mike Doran <mike@usinter.net>
          Hi Fred: IMHO the NAO is EMF related too, w/ fair weather and convective regions defined by biological activity and persistant EMFs--that tends to modulate
          Message 4 of 4 , Feb 7, 2003
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            Hi Fred:

            IMHO the NAO is EMF related too, w/ fair weather and convective
            regions defined by biological activity and persistant EMFs--that
            tends to modulate chemistry and upwelling conditions. Here is some
            more of the same topic from another bb--I respond not there but here:

            http://www.cfis.org/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000641.html

            wehappyfew Member posted 02-05-2003 11:20 PM writes:

            "Baltic drainage glaciers:
            http://nsidc.org/data/glacier_inventory/scandinavia.html

            It looks like you are correct - the Atlantic Ocean captures most of
            the Scandinavian glaciers."

            My comments:

            There are bigtime Gaia reasons for this. Fresher water bodies are not
            going to have the salinity to conduct large scale EMFs as well--and
            are likely to be colder in the winter when snow is laid, not rain.
            EMFs from biological activity isn't going to happen due to upwelling
            patterns and algae's seasonal patterns. It's all electrical and
            biological.

            "Baltic drainage glaciers do exist, though. "

            Only from its proximaty to Atlantic gaia feedbacks.

            "Nevertheless, I suspect the total amount of meltwater from even a
            rapidly melting collection of glaciers would be negligible compared
            to the normal rainfall in the Baltic basin. "

            SUMMER precip differs markedly from winter--again indicating the
            electrical and biological nature of things.


            "I'll accept your hypothesis of unusually high rainfall last summer
            as the culprit for lowered salinity leading to increased freezing
            (assuming salinity is, in fact, lower). "

            There are some important CME, electrical things going on with respect
            to the sun and the double peak top we had last year in the solar
            flaring cycle and those storms. And as you move more toward the poles
            in either direction there is an electrical idea that must be
            introduced. Now, I have mentioned how charge separation of convection
            acts like an amplifying transister in that you get an input signal
            from a solar wind pulse of protons and that causes Doran waves that
            go first from the south to the north, and the induction averages to
            actually produce the current in the earth that comprises the earth's
            EMF, the amplification is so strong and bio modulated.

            Now, there is a question if there can be weather in the further
            northern reaches how can solar activity both cause the wave in non
            convective, not EMF distorting areas of charge separation and yet
            have storms that ARE EMF distorting compared to the solar input.

            The best answer is "back EMF". IOW once a storm ends from the tropics
            back there will be a short EMF burst. IMHO this is where you will see
            cyclonic activity start . . .

            "But the other big factor in Baltic salinity is wind and weather
            driving big blobs of normal ocean salinity water through the Denmark
            Straits in a highly irregular and episodic fashion. I believe it has
            been several years, if not decades since the last big infusion of
            ocean water. "

            Persistant wind patterns are part of a living earth. Indeed, more
            chaotic winds would dictate saline conditions, but the sustained
            winds are more about a living earth.

            "I contend the Baltic is too heavily influenced by these factors to
            draw global warming/cooling conclusions from... but you knew that
            already, didn't you? "

            And that contention would be wrong because just the glacial layout
            tells you about Gaia, and the flooding anomalies and freezing
            anomalies tell you Gaia poor--as in poorly modulated.

            wehappyfew Member posted 02-06-2003 10:20 PM also writes:

            "The only reason Scandinavia and Northern Europe don't have the same
            climate as the Hudson Bay is the Gulf Stream. If the Gulf Stream
            circulation changes, the climate of Scandinavia changes - maybe
            dramatically."

            No. The Gulf Stream brings warm and saline waters--but hardly has
            enough energy to cause the warming in the place it does. What REALLy
            is occurring is warm salty water is more EMF conductive and it
            carries conductively charges from charge separating storm activity
            further south and further causes upwelling of biological material to
            go along with the sinking of salty waters that have had surface
            waters evaporated away. This allows Doran waves to extend far north.
            Cirrus are enhanced and cause uplifting of air and surface lows.


            --- In methanehydrateclub@yahoogroups.com, "fredwx1 <fredwx1@y...>"
            <fredwx1@y...> wrote:
            > Another factor is that the North Atlantic Oscillation has gone
            > negitive this winter
            >
            > Negative NAO Index:
            > The negative NAO index phase shows a weak subtropical high and a
            weak
            > Icelandic low.
            >
            > The reduced pressure gradient results in fewer and weaker winter
            > storms crossing on a more west-east pathway.
            >
            > They bring moist air into the Mediterranean and cold air to
            northern
            > Europe (Baltic Sea freezes?)
            >
            > The US east coast experiences more cold air outbreaks and hence
            snowy
            > weather. (Bingo this year)
            >
            > --- In methanehydrateclub@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Doran <mike@u...>"
            > <mike@u...> wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > http://www.helsinki-hs.net/news.asp?id=20030108IE1
            > >
            > > Thanks to the cold weather of recent weeks, the ice cover along
            the
            > > Finnish coasts is more extensive than in decades. Experts say
            that
            > > the whole Baltic Sea could freeze over all the way to the Straits
            > of
            > > Denmark, for the first time since 1948.
            > >
            > > Here is a link that monitors the ice:
            > >
            > > http://www2.fimr.fi/en/palvelut/jaapalvelu/jaatilanne.html
            > >
            > > Some Gaia comments.
            > >
            > > First, it is my view that one of the things that has kept us out
            of
            > a
            > > neo glacial is the Black Sea. What happened is that about 7,000
            > years
            > > ago as we emerged from the Milankovitch solar insOlation cycle
            peak
            > > that melted ice that had covered 1/3 of the terresphere down to
            > about
            > > 10%, the area which is the Black Sea, which was a smaller glacial
            > > fresh water lake, flooded with sea water. Indeed, this became the
            > > legand of Noah in some scholar's opinions, and this is an opinion
            > > with which I tend to agree.
            > > But my Gaia take is that the rains FOLLOWED the back flood. The
            > idea
            > > is simple. Once an inland sea, the Black Sea became a conductive
            > body
            > > that enhanced cirrus clouds electrically in the region. It is
            large
            > > enough to even have inducting surface current movements!
            Moreover,
            > > algae blooms can add to the dynamic--as biological containment of
            > > more conductive ions occurs over the diffusive processes of
            random
            > > chemistry of the lake. A fresh water lake is apt to freeze over
            in
            > > the winter and has different stratification cooling than a salt
            > lake
            > > does. Once there is ice, it not only has hard albedo values but
            ice
            > > is EMF insulating. [For more on this visit our yahoo group and
            > search
            > > Noah--I have several comments and links on the Black Sea, Noah
            > myth,
            > > and Gaia].
            > >
            > > When the Baltic freezes like this--it has the duel impact of
            ending
            > > conduction and causing albedo change based surface reflection to
            > > decrease the amount of energy retained on the surface. This is
            part
            > > of the cold we have experianced this winter, in a so-called El
            Nino
            > > year (it's electrically more a nuetral winter in the Pacific).
            > >
            > > In the summer time there is still enough Milankovitch insOlation
            > that
            > > the ice can melt and algae forms on the surface. This increases
            the
            > > conductivity and hence the ability of Doran waves to move and
            > > feedback rain. So, the second link is doubly a good link for
            living
            > > earth feedbacks in the region . .
            > >
            > >
            > > The tropical storm implications are related, IMHO, to how the
            algae
            > > blooms proceed AFTER and before the melting of the ice, and in
            > > relationship to it. Upwelling of nutrient rich materials start
            > these
            > > blooms, and in the fall when the TS hit there are areas that were
            > > once EMF conductive that suddenly are NOT. This creates EMF
            > > instabilities in the Doran wave activities and that means severe
            > > weather, including TSs.
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