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A comment on the "SE"

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  • Mike Doran <mike@usinter.net>
    Certainly the question is then over causal mechanism over correlations--and to be sure initially I was incorrect in what I thought were the mechanisms, and I
    Message 1 of 8 , Feb 4, 2003
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      Certainly the question is then over causal mechanism over
      correlations--and to be sure initially I was incorrect in what I
      thought were the mechanisms, and I am not even talking about hydrates
      and phase change tempertures--but CO2 as a green house gas--the
      dominate dogma of the left at this time. Yet, if you take a step back
      from there the REAL question is whether or not human activity, by
      burning fossil fuels, deforestation, hydrology changes and so forth,
      is causing a problem with climate and if so what are the costs and
      benefits.

      Here we certainly have said to you that we disagree with your causal
      mechanism of the SE BUT that you have found correlative data that is
      interesting and perhaps there is another mechanism?

      Indeed, to reverse this, look at the reaction to Lindzen's 'iris'
      paper by the warmers. Certainly Lindzen was wrong in his
      extrapolations, BUT, his paper did indeed pick out the electrical
      problem with cirrus behavior and a pure, thermodyanamic view of
      things. The failure of cloud scientists to look at what was
      correlated and opposed to merely what was speculated to be causal has
      been the undoing of skeptical science on the side of the warmers.

      Another example that is relevant here--that hurt my own thinking
      until just recently, was the double dymino theory on the earth's EMF.
      Tim Thompson, a NASA scientist, has a great online paper about it
      here:

      http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/magfields.html

      Tim actually debated here and mostly at CNN. My view is he
      subconsiously was looking at the same thing I eventually came up
      with . . .

      In any event, Tim holds for the double dymino theory of EMFs, DESPITE
      the fact that it is not settled science, because much of thinker's
      like Thomas Barnes work has been discredited or Barne's motivations
      are religious. But let's just say there are a number who have failed
      because they haven't followed the inferences and eliminated all
      possible solutions. It really starts out with this 1992 research:

      An abstract about measurable induction by ocean currents:

      http://www.gfdl.gov/~gth/netscape/1992/dbs9201.html

      BUT, this is merely what ocean currents are like in the context of
      the earth's EMF and ignores the "noise" of other EMFs--including the
      huge EMFs by strikes that are short in duration and regional in
      proximaty and scale.

      The wrong headed assumption made was that the storm based EMFs
      weren't the CAUSE of the earth's EMF and so were in line with it
      qualitatively. This then is enough to explain the 'iris' from an EMF
      induction standpoint in the context of the earth's EMF--because that
      EMF is related to pulses of AC from the poles, particularly the south
      one, which are amplified by convection and charge separation as EMF
      cirrus enhancement works its magic. Eventually the wave grows strong
      enough to have induction of its own and pass on its positive to
      negative current movement--as in the source of the world's EMF.

      This ties to yet another mistake--that being what amounts to small
      current pulses from the sun in the solar wind don't have a climate
      implication--because indeed the currents involved are small, BUT, in
      regions of the poles where convection is weak, the start of a Doran
      wave, where the solar pulse follows the tight isobars of the magnetic
      poles--and commences it, can and does expand to the inducting AC
      Doran waves which both create the earth's EMF and is the source of
      larger induction fields that ocean currents move relative too.

      BUT, if small pulses of solar wind can impact the earth's climate
      perhaps a small force from the SE can be implicated as well. So far,
      however, I am not satisfied with your reasoning.

      ++++++++++++++++++


      http://www.weatherimages.org/data/imag87.html

      Strike link is still down. It times somewhat with the Challenger
      disaster. Wonder if NASA people are being relocated or something--if
      there is a tie to it being down.





      --- In methanehydrateclub@yahoogroups.com, foryeshua1@j... wrote:
      > David, You say coronal holes are usually located at the poles?
      North
      > and South? Do they appear in both poles possibly at the same time
      on
      > both poles? If they appear there they could be pumping currents
      out into
      > space into the center of the galaxy, and would indicate a possible
      power
      > source for the center of the galaxy It would not necessarily even
      affect
      > a slower and possibly much less intense current generation that
      would
      > cause the SE I am talking about. If these holes on the poles are
      related
      > to outer Solar galaxy functions, they may be part of the system that
      > keeps us in our rotating position in the galaxy. Walter
      >
      > On Sun, 26 Jan 2003 06:49:50 -0000 "David <b1blancer1@e...>"
      > <b1blancer1@e...> writes:
      > --- In methanehydrateclub@yahoogroups.com, foryeshua1@j... wrote:
      > > It would occur to me that of all of the holes found in the South
      that
      > > some would not be capable of joining the SE because of their
      specific
      > > direction of discharge, referring to the fact that coronal
      activity I
      > > have observed was expressed in large curling loops which if
      broken open
      > > might discharge their power in many different directions, (if I am
      > > talking about the same phenomena you are referring to.)
      >
      > Loops and coronal holes are two different things. A coronal hole is
      > basically where the sun's magnetic field lines open up. When viewed
      > in certain UV ranges, they look like a dark area on the solar disk,
      as
      > can be seen here :
      > http://soho.nascom.nasa.gov/pickoftheweek/old/12sep2002/index.html .
      > Coronal holes are usually located at the sun's poles, but sometimes
      > they can be seen at other places on the sun as well.
      >
      > When they do appear not on the poles are they more obvious in their
      > affects upon earth? Walter
      >
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    • David <b1blancer1@earthlink.net>
      ... Yes, coronal holes can usually be found at the solar poles. The magnetic fields around coronal holes are different. Instead of looping back to reconnect
      Message 2 of 8 , Feb 4, 2003
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        --- In methanehydrateclub@yahoogroups.com, foryeshua1@j... wrote:
        > David, You say coronal holes are usually located at the poles? North
        > and South? Do they appear in both poles possibly at the same time on
        > both poles?

        Yes, coronal holes can usually be found at the solar poles. The
        magnetic fields around coronal holes are different. Instead of looping
        back to reconnect on the sun's surface, they are essentially open.
        They extend far out into the solar system and no one knows exactly
        where they reconnect. Rather than trapping gas and the solar wind, the
        open field lines of a coronal hole allow high-speed solar wind
        particles to escape.

        > If they appear there they could be pumping currents out into
        > space into the center of the galaxy, and would indicate a possible power
        > source for the center of the galaxy

        Power for the center of the galaxy?? Walter, you're talking about
        something that's about 50,000 light years away. I think the black
        hole residing there does a pretty good job.
      • foryeshua1@juno.com
        David, I say something at the end. Walter On Wed, 05 Feb 2003 03:30:03 -0000 David ... Yes, coronal holes can usually be found
        Message 3 of 8 , Feb 4, 2003
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          David, I say something at the end. Walter

          On Wed, 05 Feb 2003 03:30:03 -0000 "David <b1blancer1@...>"
          <b1blancer1@...> writes:
          --- In methanehydrateclub@yahoogroups.com, foryeshua1@j... wrote:
          > David, You say coronal holes are usually located at the poles? North
          > and South? Do they appear in both poles possibly at the same time on
          > both poles?

          Yes, coronal holes can usually be found at the solar poles. The
          magnetic fields around coronal holes are different. Instead of looping
          back to reconnect on the sun's surface, they are essentially open.
          They extend far out into the solar system and no one knows exactly
          where they reconnect. Rather than trapping gas and the solar wind, the
          open field lines of a coronal hole allow high-speed solar wind
          particles to escape.

          > If they appear there they could be pumping currents out into
          > space into the center of the galaxy, and would indicate a possible
          power
          > source for the center of the galaxy

          Power for the center of the galaxy?? Walter, you're talking about
          something that's about 50,000 light years away. I think the black
          hole residing there does a pretty good job.

          David, It would seem obvious that function follows available power and
          the laws related to transfer of power. For a starter. What keeps a
          galaxy in place with its solar systems rotating in relation to its
          center. Irregardless of our estimations based upon what forces and
          speeds are possible in these relationship rotations in our galaxy, the
          fact remains that solar systems are rotating around a center "black hole"
          and that each of which MUST be related to the center or we would not be
          held together and rotating around it.
          Consider the rotation as following the right hand rule, and
          bingo, simple electrical rules on earth in our hands and through our
          total environment are seen in action. As simply as it can be explained.
          Our Sun's superior size and position in our Solar system, would make the
          planets in comparison to our Sun, as unimportant as the electrons are to
          the Proton of an atom. Though the electrons do have important
          characteristics, the power of the Atom center is what is commanding its
          relational properties as well as the rotation of its atoms. Our Sun is
          the centering power, and rotating force controlling the motion of the
          planets, while at the same time it is controlling and being controlled
          by, all of the other Planetary systems in relationship to the center
          "Black Hole". The shape of that central rotating squeezer is shooting
          energy out in a stream that is literally holding and being fed by the
          whole galaxy. Close by are the germinating nurserys that are making new
          worlds and Solar Systems.
          Our earth is being powered by weak eddy currents which are
          feeding and powering all of the planets to do what they are doing, and
          how fast they are doing it.
          It appears that historically not understanding our position in
          our solar system and our galaxy is quite related to our inability to
          understand which object in our vision is actually in the center of what
          we behold. We have been slow to figure that out, but perhaps we will
          learn enough to really see what is powering what.
          I am honored by your consideration what has been said. Perhaps
          together we really can figure this thing out. May God bless us all.
          Walter
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