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Re: [Methane Hydrate Club] Soler Activity Report for 1/20/03

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  • foryeshua1@juno.com
    David, You say coronal holes are usually located at the poles? North and South? Do they appear in both poles possibly at the same time on both poles? If
    Message 1 of 8 , Feb 3, 2003
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      David, You say coronal holes are usually located at the poles? North
      and South? Do they appear in both poles possibly at the same time on
      both poles? If they appear there they could be pumping currents out into
      space into the center of the galaxy, and would indicate a possible power
      source for the center of the galaxy It would not necessarily even affect
      a slower and possibly much less intense current generation that would
      cause the SE I am talking about. If these holes on the poles are related
      to outer Solar galaxy functions, they may be part of the system that
      keeps us in our rotating position in the galaxy. Walter

      On Sun, 26 Jan 2003 06:49:50 -0000 "David <b1blancer1@...>"
      <b1blancer1@...> writes:
      --- In methanehydrateclub@yahoogroups.com, foryeshua1@j... wrote:
      > It would occur to me that of all of the holes found in the South that
      > some would not be capable of joining the SE because of their specific
      > direction of discharge, referring to the fact that coronal activity I
      > have observed was expressed in large curling loops which if broken open
      > might discharge their power in many different directions, (if I am
      > talking about the same phenomena you are referring to.)

      Loops and coronal holes are two different things. A coronal hole is
      basically where the sun's magnetic field lines open up. When viewed
      in certain UV ranges, they look like a dark area on the solar disk, as
      can be seen here :
      http://soho.nascom.nasa.gov/pickoftheweek/old/12sep2002/index.html .
      Coronal holes are usually located at the sun's poles, but sometimes
      they can be seen at other places on the sun as well.

      When they do appear not on the poles are they more obvious in their
      affects upon earth? Walter

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    • Mike Doran <mike@usinter.net>
      Certainly the question is then over causal mechanism over correlations--and to be sure initially I was incorrect in what I thought were the mechanisms, and I
      Message 2 of 8 , Feb 4, 2003
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        Certainly the question is then over causal mechanism over
        correlations--and to be sure initially I was incorrect in what I
        thought were the mechanisms, and I am not even talking about hydrates
        and phase change tempertures--but CO2 as a green house gas--the
        dominate dogma of the left at this time. Yet, if you take a step back
        from there the REAL question is whether or not human activity, by
        burning fossil fuels, deforestation, hydrology changes and so forth,
        is causing a problem with climate and if so what are the costs and
        benefits.

        Here we certainly have said to you that we disagree with your causal
        mechanism of the SE BUT that you have found correlative data that is
        interesting and perhaps there is another mechanism?

        Indeed, to reverse this, look at the reaction to Lindzen's 'iris'
        paper by the warmers. Certainly Lindzen was wrong in his
        extrapolations, BUT, his paper did indeed pick out the electrical
        problem with cirrus behavior and a pure, thermodyanamic view of
        things. The failure of cloud scientists to look at what was
        correlated and opposed to merely what was speculated to be causal has
        been the undoing of skeptical science on the side of the warmers.

        Another example that is relevant here--that hurt my own thinking
        until just recently, was the double dymino theory on the earth's EMF.
        Tim Thompson, a NASA scientist, has a great online paper about it
        here:

        http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/magfields.html

        Tim actually debated here and mostly at CNN. My view is he
        subconsiously was looking at the same thing I eventually came up
        with . . .

        In any event, Tim holds for the double dymino theory of EMFs, DESPITE
        the fact that it is not settled science, because much of thinker's
        like Thomas Barnes work has been discredited or Barne's motivations
        are religious. But let's just say there are a number who have failed
        because they haven't followed the inferences and eliminated all
        possible solutions. It really starts out with this 1992 research:

        An abstract about measurable induction by ocean currents:

        http://www.gfdl.gov/~gth/netscape/1992/dbs9201.html

        BUT, this is merely what ocean currents are like in the context of
        the earth's EMF and ignores the "noise" of other EMFs--including the
        huge EMFs by strikes that are short in duration and regional in
        proximaty and scale.

        The wrong headed assumption made was that the storm based EMFs
        weren't the CAUSE of the earth's EMF and so were in line with it
        qualitatively. This then is enough to explain the 'iris' from an EMF
        induction standpoint in the context of the earth's EMF--because that
        EMF is related to pulses of AC from the poles, particularly the south
        one, which are amplified by convection and charge separation as EMF
        cirrus enhancement works its magic. Eventually the wave grows strong
        enough to have induction of its own and pass on its positive to
        negative current movement--as in the source of the world's EMF.

        This ties to yet another mistake--that being what amounts to small
        current pulses from the sun in the solar wind don't have a climate
        implication--because indeed the currents involved are small, BUT, in
        regions of the poles where convection is weak, the start of a Doran
        wave, where the solar pulse follows the tight isobars of the magnetic
        poles--and commences it, can and does expand to the inducting AC
        Doran waves which both create the earth's EMF and is the source of
        larger induction fields that ocean currents move relative too.

        BUT, if small pulses of solar wind can impact the earth's climate
        perhaps a small force from the SE can be implicated as well. So far,
        however, I am not satisfied with your reasoning.

        ++++++++++++++++++


        http://www.weatherimages.org/data/imag87.html

        Strike link is still down. It times somewhat with the Challenger
        disaster. Wonder if NASA people are being relocated or something--if
        there is a tie to it being down.





        --- In methanehydrateclub@yahoogroups.com, foryeshua1@j... wrote:
        > David, You say coronal holes are usually located at the poles?
        North
        > and South? Do they appear in both poles possibly at the same time
        on
        > both poles? If they appear there they could be pumping currents
        out into
        > space into the center of the galaxy, and would indicate a possible
        power
        > source for the center of the galaxy It would not necessarily even
        affect
        > a slower and possibly much less intense current generation that
        would
        > cause the SE I am talking about. If these holes on the poles are
        related
        > to outer Solar galaxy functions, they may be part of the system that
        > keeps us in our rotating position in the galaxy. Walter
        >
        > On Sun, 26 Jan 2003 06:49:50 -0000 "David <b1blancer1@e...>"
        > <b1blancer1@e...> writes:
        > --- In methanehydrateclub@yahoogroups.com, foryeshua1@j... wrote:
        > > It would occur to me that of all of the holes found in the South
        that
        > > some would not be capable of joining the SE because of their
        specific
        > > direction of discharge, referring to the fact that coronal
        activity I
        > > have observed was expressed in large curling loops which if
        broken open
        > > might discharge their power in many different directions, (if I am
        > > talking about the same phenomena you are referring to.)
        >
        > Loops and coronal holes are two different things. A coronal hole is
        > basically where the sun's magnetic field lines open up. When viewed
        > in certain UV ranges, they look like a dark area on the solar disk,
        as
        > can be seen here :
        > http://soho.nascom.nasa.gov/pickoftheweek/old/12sep2002/index.html .
        > Coronal holes are usually located at the sun's poles, but sometimes
        > they can be seen at other places on the sun as well.
        >
        > When they do appear not on the poles are they more obvious in their
        > affects upon earth? Walter
        >
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      • David <b1blancer1@earthlink.net>
        ... Yes, coronal holes can usually be found at the solar poles. The magnetic fields around coronal holes are different. Instead of looping back to reconnect
        Message 3 of 8 , Feb 4, 2003
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          --- In methanehydrateclub@yahoogroups.com, foryeshua1@j... wrote:
          > David, You say coronal holes are usually located at the poles? North
          > and South? Do they appear in both poles possibly at the same time on
          > both poles?

          Yes, coronal holes can usually be found at the solar poles. The
          magnetic fields around coronal holes are different. Instead of looping
          back to reconnect on the sun's surface, they are essentially open.
          They extend far out into the solar system and no one knows exactly
          where they reconnect. Rather than trapping gas and the solar wind, the
          open field lines of a coronal hole allow high-speed solar wind
          particles to escape.

          > If they appear there they could be pumping currents out into
          > space into the center of the galaxy, and would indicate a possible power
          > source for the center of the galaxy

          Power for the center of the galaxy?? Walter, you're talking about
          something that's about 50,000 light years away. I think the black
          hole residing there does a pretty good job.
        • foryeshua1@juno.com
          David, I say something at the end. Walter On Wed, 05 Feb 2003 03:30:03 -0000 David ... Yes, coronal holes can usually be found
          Message 4 of 8 , Feb 4, 2003
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            David, I say something at the end. Walter

            On Wed, 05 Feb 2003 03:30:03 -0000 "David <b1blancer1@...>"
            <b1blancer1@...> writes:
            --- In methanehydrateclub@yahoogroups.com, foryeshua1@j... wrote:
            > David, You say coronal holes are usually located at the poles? North
            > and South? Do they appear in both poles possibly at the same time on
            > both poles?

            Yes, coronal holes can usually be found at the solar poles. The
            magnetic fields around coronal holes are different. Instead of looping
            back to reconnect on the sun's surface, they are essentially open.
            They extend far out into the solar system and no one knows exactly
            where they reconnect. Rather than trapping gas and the solar wind, the
            open field lines of a coronal hole allow high-speed solar wind
            particles to escape.

            > If they appear there they could be pumping currents out into
            > space into the center of the galaxy, and would indicate a possible
            power
            > source for the center of the galaxy

            Power for the center of the galaxy?? Walter, you're talking about
            something that's about 50,000 light years away. I think the black
            hole residing there does a pretty good job.

            David, It would seem obvious that function follows available power and
            the laws related to transfer of power. For a starter. What keeps a
            galaxy in place with its solar systems rotating in relation to its
            center. Irregardless of our estimations based upon what forces and
            speeds are possible in these relationship rotations in our galaxy, the
            fact remains that solar systems are rotating around a center "black hole"
            and that each of which MUST be related to the center or we would not be
            held together and rotating around it.
            Consider the rotation as following the right hand rule, and
            bingo, simple electrical rules on earth in our hands and through our
            total environment are seen in action. As simply as it can be explained.
            Our Sun's superior size and position in our Solar system, would make the
            planets in comparison to our Sun, as unimportant as the electrons are to
            the Proton of an atom. Though the electrons do have important
            characteristics, the power of the Atom center is what is commanding its
            relational properties as well as the rotation of its atoms. Our Sun is
            the centering power, and rotating force controlling the motion of the
            planets, while at the same time it is controlling and being controlled
            by, all of the other Planetary systems in relationship to the center
            "Black Hole". The shape of that central rotating squeezer is shooting
            energy out in a stream that is literally holding and being fed by the
            whole galaxy. Close by are the germinating nurserys that are making new
            worlds and Solar Systems.
            Our earth is being powered by weak eddy currents which are
            feeding and powering all of the planets to do what they are doing, and
            how fast they are doing it.
            It appears that historically not understanding our position in
            our solar system and our galaxy is quite related to our inability to
            understand which object in our vision is actually in the center of what
            we behold. We have been slow to figure that out, but perhaps we will
            learn enough to really see what is powering what.
            I am honored by your consideration what has been said. Perhaps
            together we really can figure this thing out. May God bless us all.
            Walter
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