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Re: [Methane Hydrate Club] The Cause of Tornadoes.

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  • fredwx
    I would be interested in seeing your reference regarding oil rigs being hit by lightning or tornadoes more than any other similar structure - other than they
    Message 1 of 32 , Oct 10, 2002
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      I would be interested in seeing your reference regarding oil rigs
      being hit by lightning or tornadoes more than any other similar
      structure - other than they are tall metal structures extending up
      above a flat open surface in Tornado Alley. Like any other tall
      building, lightning is a threat but I do not believe oil rigs are hit
      more often.
      Fred


      --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., foryeshua1@j... wrote:
      > It is based upon the fact that drilling for oil would not have been
      able
      > to be done if they didn't find out what was causing their drilling
      rigs
      > to be hit directly by lightening and twisting tornados. This is a
      fact.
      > One prima facia fact which is enough to establish any proof. Walter
      >
      > On Wed, 09 Oct 2002 16:37:49 -0000 fredwx <no_reply@y...>
      > writes:
      > You said "Knowing that tornados are caused by discharge is a really
      > important fact." - What do you base this on?
      >
      >
      > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., foryeshua1@j... wrote:
      > > Kirk, When oil drilling rigs were first being tried they were
      > destroyed
      > > by two things. Ligntening burned them, and tornadoes twisted
      them
      > to
      > > shreds. They were afraid that for a while they could not
      overcome
      > these
      > > problems. They then found that when they insulated the drilling
      > shaft
      > > both problems were stopped. The only problem is that they didn't
      > use
      > > that information they found to explain and understand what caused
      > both
      > > lightening and tornadoes. The culprit is electrical discharge
      from
      > the
      > > ground through the funnel to the clouds and into the jet stream
      > above.
      > > What demands the flow is the current in the jet stream. Acting
      > like a
      > > siphoning hose the flow of current goes along well when its
      > following
      > > cloud and storms are over well conducting land and the discharge
      is
      > > smooth or building, but when one or some of the storms feeding
      the
      > jet
      > > stream are pulled over nonconductive places, the jet stream sucks
      > on the
      > > path demanding more as it is being forced to slow down its flow.
      > This
      > > causes a sort of jump demand on areas that are potential sources
      of
      > > discharge. This jump demand bring into place pathways of
      moisture
      > for
      > > the flow to go through. All of this is weather related because
      we
      > have
      > > observed the high air and low air and the fronts that have to come
      > > together to provide the right demands for electrical discharge of
      > the
      > > Solar Electrojet Current.
      > > The display of tornadoes in the North East was caused I
      > believe
      > > by a network of chem trails which laid a completely total net of
      > > discharge pathways over all of the area. This net was used by
      the
      > SE to
      > > discharge into causing tornadoes over the whole area just like
      the
      > jet
      > > stream, when it starts to run out of flow power it jump starts
      all
      > areas
      > > possibly able to provide that discharge. The net caused a hook
      up
      > of a
      > > huge area of potential discharges. This phenomena could not have
      > > happened in the natural because no storm sets up such a totally
      > covering
      > > net of discharge potential pathways.
      > > Knowing that tornados are caused by discharge is a really
      > > important fact. This information could be used to provide
      pathways
      > for
      > > discharge which could be harnessed to be used for a power source
      for
      > > man's needs. Tornados only can occur at places capable of
      providing
      > > discharge. Badlands are caused by tornado after tornado digging
      > again
      > > and again on places that have mineral connections or wet
      conditions
      > which
      > > enable discharge pathways for the SE. Studying tornados with
      these
      > > things in mind can give us ways to control tornados in specific
      > places.
      > > Small towns hit by destroying tornados, can be tornado proofed by
      > putting
      > > a well grounded pathway through a playground path through the
      town,
      > so
      > > that if any tornado wants SE through its houses, it will have
      better
      > > pathways of conductance through the better conductor that is in
      > place.
      > > Electricity always takes the path of best conductance or least
      > > resistance in the presence of pressing charges. I outlined this
      > > information years ago and it has been totally ignored. Its like
      > > insurance companies don't want people to not have a reason to buy
      > their
      > > policies. When if people have access to information about tornado
      > > activity in their areas and know how to stay away from building
      > things
      > > that act as conductors for tornados, like railroad rails through
      > areas
      > > that will only use them for conductors to any storm that might
      pass
      > close
      > > enough to demand SE through them. Each situation can be analyzed
      > and
      > > protection from tornado destruction can be provided by simply
      > following
      > > the rules of insulating and conductance to provide safety places
      > for man
      > > and his buildings. A problem of course in this method is that
      > seeing the
      > > whole picture of what happens when storms pass over different
      > places in
      > > given areas, is a many splendered problem. Many variables are
      > involved,
      > > and it is likely that errors of thinking through what will happen
      > will
      > > occur. However the task of doing the analyzing is a beginning
      and
      > will
      > > in the long run protect what man doesn't want destroyed. The
      rules
      > are
      > > all electrical and are very basically simple.
      > > Many meterologists have tried to understand Tornados, but
      > because
      > > they really don't know the basic principles involved, their
      > analysis have
      > > ended up with no basic reasonings with have given man controlling
      > > answers. If people would have given the tornado stopping, when
      > wells
      > > were drilled as they were insulated from the surrounding layers of
      > > conducting minerals that were being drilled through, the same
      > amount of
      > > effort as the weather men have, we certainly ought to have solved
      > the
      > > problem by now.
      > > I thought I had covered this topic on my web site.
      > > Http://www.vorbitz.com/electrojet If anyone has specific
      > questions I
      > > would be glad to share my opinions. Dr. Walter O. Peterson
      > >
      > > On Tue, 8 Oct 2002 02:48:44 -0600 "kirk" <kirk@3...> writes:
      > > Opinions?
      > > Kirk
      > >
      > > http://nov55.com/tor.html
      > > The Cause of Tornadoes
      > > Tornadoes are caused when a cloud of the right size precipitates
      > rapidly
      > > releasing heat, which causes it to rise and creates a vacuum
      under
      > it.
      > > Air
      > > rushing under it creates the vortex.
      > >
      > > As much as tornadoes have been studied, and as obvious as the
      > physics is,
      > > the weather predictors still don't have it figured out. Only newly
      > > forming
      > > rain clouds can create tornadoes, yet tornado warnings are always
      > given
      > > for
      > > old clouds.
      > >
      > > It is known that a sudden drop in air pressure precedes
      tornadoes.
      > The
      > > pressure drop is caused by a cloud near the ground rising rapidly
      > > creating a
      > > partial vacuum below it.
      > >
      > > Precipitation releases as much heat as evaporation absorbs. But
      > > precipitation tends to be much faster than evaporation. So a very
      > large
      > > amount of heat is released when a cloud precipitates.
      > >
      > > Heat of course causes air to rise. When a cloud near the ground
      > rises, it
      > > creates a partial vacuum under it.
      > >
      > > The cloud must be the right size for a tornado to occur. A very
      > large
      > > cloud
      > > would not precipitate uniformly, so the whole cloud would not
      rise
      > at
      > > once.
      > > A very small cloud would not produce enough precipitation or heat
      to
      > > create
      > > a large enough vacuum for a tornado to form.
      > >
      > > Also, the height from the ground would be important, because the
      > speed at
      > > which the air moves in rushing under it will depend upon the
      amount
      > of
      > > space
      > > below the cloud.
      > >
      > > These dynamics only exist during the first few minutes of the
      > formation
      > > of a
      > > heavy cloud. Older clouds precipitate gradually and higher in the
      > air, so
      > > no
      > > vacuum is created.
      > >
      > > Modern doppler radar substantiates this point. When a tornado is
      > > reported,
      > > doppler radar shows that a new cloud formed out of nowhere where
      the
      > > tornado
      > > was said to be.
      > >
      > > Therefore, if people are to be warned in advanced, it has to be
      for
      > an
      > > area
      > > where clouds are expected to form but have not yet appeared.
      > >
      > > It might be possible to prevent a cloud from creating a tornado by
      > > seeding
      > > part of it, so it precipitates prematurely and nonuniformly. But
      > the time
      > > factor would be a problem in locating a newly forming cloud.
      > >
      > > Cumulous clouds will not create tornadoes, because they dissipate
      > energy
      > > continuously, and they precipitate too high in the air. A tornado
      > cloud
      > > has
      > > to form rapidly and dissipate its energy all at once. This occurs
      > when
      > > hot,
      > > humid air hits colder air. A typical example is gulf air turning
      > north
      > > and
      > > colliding with other air over Arkansas. In the northern plains,
      > clouds
      > > usually form more gradually and dissipate energy through cumulous
      > > formations.
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > >
      > >
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    • Mike Doran
      I am no expert on the subject. However I have read the Lindzen, Fu and Hartmann papers and think I know enough to apply EMFs to the cloud dynamics via cirrus
      Message 32 of 32 , Oct 19, 2002
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        I am no expert on the subject. However I have read the Lindzen, Fu
        and Hartmann papers and think I know enough to apply EMFs to the
        cloud dynamics via cirrus IR forcings in a meaningful manner.

        Even if high clouds lead to relative heat stability heat loss leads
        to cooling, more dense and falling air. RELATIVELY speaking, the
        contrasts create instability.

        --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
        > All clouds block the escape of infrared radiation. Net warming of
        air
        > below cirrus clouds would tend to make the air more stable, not
        less.
        >
        > Cirrus clouds are not very effective at blocking sunlight so most
        of
        > the solar energy still reaches the ground allowing heating at low
        > levels to occur and thus rising air (as in fair weather). However,
        as
        > that air rises it now will be moving into an environment that is
        not
        > as cold at higher levels than without the cirrus cover. (Cirrus
        > blocking infrared radiation as you said allowing the air below the
        > clouds to warm). I would submit that this might tend to inhibit
        > vertical motion, not enhance it.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "Mike Doran" <mike@u...> wrote:
        > > Cirrus trap infra red radiation. Underneath that means warming
        > air,
        > > a rising air mass and to the surface a low.
        > >
        > > Fair weather allows heat easily to escape to space. Without the
        > > updraft, gravity pulls the air down, with no rising vacuum impact
        > > high pressures form.
        > >
        > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
        > > > <<The issue here is cirrus clouds, because they vary upper
        > > > atmospheric heat values bigtime and create movements of that
        air,
        > > or
        > > > instability.>>
        > > >
        > > > Just how do the cirrus clouds vary upper atmospheric heat
        values
        > > big
        > > > time or create movements of air or instability?
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "Mike Doran" <mike@u...> wrote:
        > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "David" <b1blancer1@e...>
        wrote:
        > > > > > Well said, Fred. To make a thunderstorm, you need three
        > > things :
        > > > > > heat, moisture, and an unstable atmosphere.
        > > > >
        > > > > The issue here is cirrus clouds, because they vary upper
        > > > atmospheric
        > > > > heat values bigtime and create movements of that air, or
        > > > instability.
        > > > >
        > > > > Doran waves travel much faster then a frontal system. They
        > > travel
        > > > > faster then 'heat'.
        > > > >
        > > > > A thunderstorm in Texas has EMF implications for one in Iowa,
        > and
        > > > > hence convective implications. Therefore the daily heating
        and
        > > > > cooling has timing implication feedbacks, re-enforcing time
        of
        > > day
        > > > > activity.
        > > > >
        > > > > But if a hurricane landfalls during the night, the Doran
        waves
        > > and
        > > > > rain pay little attention to what the ionsphere is doing,
        > rising
        > > or
        > > > > contracting.
        > > > >
        > > > > We see what we want to see, hear what we want to hear. The
        > trick
        > > > is
        > > > > to be able to listen and observe without losing your state of
        > > mind.
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