Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [Methane Hydrate Club] The Cause of Tornadoes.

Expand Messages
  • mike
    It is probably more correct to think of the storm building processes as pre strike and pre elve and sprite. That is because the processes that enhance or not
    Message 1 of 32 , Oct 9, 2002
    View Source
    • 0 Attachment
      It is probably more correct to think of the storm building processes as
      pre strike and pre elve and sprite. That is because the processes that
      enhance or not cirrus clouds, and impact CONVECTION in patterns that
      promote instability underneath these clouds, is a capacitive occurance.

      It is well known that before storms there is an accumulation of net
      positive ions. That is very interesting because then conductive bodies
      like oil rigs or even mobile homes could have a much larger accumulation
      and a faster accumulation, that attracts the negitive ions over the
      length of a conductive cloud body to the bottom of that cloud, creating
      an area to the top of the cloud that carries a more positive charge,
      which then is attracted to the ionosphere--again, pre strike, elve and
      sprite. These discharges merely short the capacitor and rebalance
      charges, making EMF movements of cirrus clouds nuetral, and hence at the
      whim of gravity.

      A few years ago I had the opportunity to visit Norman Oklahoma right
      after the huge tornado that struck there (some say it was an F-5, I say F-
      6 based on passive radar). Anyway, I was looking at the damage in one
      neighborhood where homes were destroyed to their foundation, iow nothing
      left but a damn bathtub, and like this for a 1/2 mile swath for a mile or
      two and then the path led right into a large brick and glass church with
      a parking lot--that didn't loose a pane of glass, the first thing that
      cames to mind now is not an act of God, but an act of a different EMF
      over the glass church and bare parking lot compared to watered grass
      yards, plumbing, ducking, cars, and other metalic objects that could have
      stored fair weather positive voltages.

      -----Original Message-----
      From: fredwx <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
      To: methanehydrateclub@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 16:37:49 -0000
      Subject: Re: [Methane Hydrate Club] The Cause of Tornadoes.

      > <html><body>
      >
      >
      > <tt>
      > You said "Knowing that tornados are caused by discharge is a
      > really<BR>
      > important fact."   - What do you base this on?<BR>
      > <BR>
      > <BR>
      > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., foryeshua1@j... wrote:<BR>
      > > Kirk,  When oil drilling rigs were first being tried they
      > were <BR>
      > destroyed<BR>
      > > by two things.  Ligntening burned them, and tornadoes twisted
      > them <BR>
      > to<BR>
      > > shreds.  They were afraid that for a while they could not
      > overcome <BR>
      > these<BR>
      > > problems.  They then found that when they insulated the
      > drilling <BR>
      > shaft<BR>
      > > both problems were stopped.  The only problem is that they
      > didn't <BR>
      > use<BR>
      > > that information they found to explain and understand what caused
      > <BR>
      > both<BR>
      > > lightening and tornadoes.  The culprit is electrical
      > discharge from <BR>
      > the<BR>
      > > ground through the funnel to the clouds and into the jet stream
      > <BR>
      > above. <BR>
      > > What demands the flow is the current in the jet stream. 
      > Acting <BR>
      > like a<BR>
      > > siphoning hose the flow of current goes along well when its <BR>
      > following<BR>
      > > cloud and storms are over well conducting land and the discharge
      > is<BR>
      > > smooth or building, but when one or some of the storms feeding the
      > <BR>
      > jet<BR>
      > > stream are pulled over nonconductive places, the jet stream sucks
      > <BR>
      > on the<BR>
      > > path demanding more as it is being forced to slow down its
      > flow.  <BR>
      > This<BR>
      > > causes a sort of jump demand on areas that are potential sources
      > of<BR>
      > > discharge.  This jump demand bring into place pathways of
      > moisture <BR>
      > for<BR>
      > > the flow to go through.  All of this is weather related
      > because  we <BR>
      > have<BR>
      > > observed the high air and low air and the fronts that have to
      > come<BR>
      > > together to provide the right demands for electrical discharge of
      > <BR>
      > the<BR>
      > > Solar Electrojet Current.  <BR>
      > >         The display of
      > tornadoes in the North East was caused I <BR>
      > believe<BR>
      > > by a network of chem trails which laid a completely total net
      > of<BR>
      > > discharge pathways over all of the area.  This net was used
      > by the <BR>
      > SE to<BR>
      > > discharge into causing tornadoes over the whole area just like the
      > <BR>
      > jet<BR>
      > > stream, when it starts to run out of flow power it jump starts all
      > <BR>
      > areas<BR>
      > > possibly able to provide that discharge.  The net caused a
      > hook up <BR>
      > of a<BR>
      > > huge area of potential discharges.  This phenomena could not
      > have<BR>
      > > happened in the natural because no storm sets up such a totally
      > <BR>
      > covering<BR>
      > > net of discharge potential pathways.  <BR>
      > >         Knowing that
      > tornados are caused by discharge is a really<BR>
      > > important fact.  This information could be used to provide
      > pathways <BR>
      > for<BR>
      > > discharge which could be harnessed to be used for a power source
      > for<BR>
      > > man's needs.  Tornados only can occur at places capable of
      > providing<BR>
      > > discharge.  Badlands are caused by tornado after tornado
      > digging <BR>
      > again<BR>
      > > and again on places that have mineral connections or wet
      > conditions <BR>
      > which<BR>
      > > enable discharge pathways for the SE.  Studying tornados with
      > these<BR>
      > > things in mind can give us ways to control tornados in specific
      > <BR>
      > places. <BR>
      > > Small towns hit by destroying tornados, can be tornado proofed by
      > <BR>
      > putting<BR>
      > > a well grounded pathway through a playground path through the
      > town, <BR>
      > so<BR>
      > > that if any tornado wants SE through its houses, it will have
      > better<BR>
      > > pathways of conductance through the better conductor that is in
      > <BR>
      > place. <BR>
      > > Electricity always takes the path of best  conductance or
      > least<BR>
      > > resistance in the presence of pressing charges. I outlined
      > this<BR>
      > > information years ago and it has been totally ignored.  Its
      > like<BR>
      > > insurance companies don't want people to not have a reason to buy
      > <BR>
      > their<BR>
      > > policies.  When if people have access to information about
      > tornado<BR>
      > > activity in their areas and know how to stay away from building
      > <BR>
      > things<BR>
      > > that act as conductors for tornados, like railroad rails through
      > <BR>
      > areas<BR>
      > > that will only use them for conductors to any storm that might
      > pass <BR>
      > close<BR>
      > > enough to demand SE through them.  Each situation can be
      > analyzed <BR>
      > and<BR>
      > > protection from tornado destruction can be provided by simply <BR>
      > following<BR>
      > > the rules of insulating and conductance to provide safety places
      > <BR>
      > for man<BR>
      > > and his buildings. A problem of course in this method is that <BR>
      > seeing the<BR>
      > > whole picture of what happens when storms pass over different <BR>
      > places in<BR>
      > > given areas, is a many splendered problem. Many variables are <BR>
      > involved,<BR>
      > > and it is likely that errors of thinking through what will happen
      > <BR>
      > will<BR>
      > > occur.  However the task of doing the analyzing is a
      > beginning and <BR>
      > will<BR>
      > > in the long run protect what man doesn't want destroyed.  The
      > rules <BR>
      > are<BR>
      > > all electrical and are very basically simple. <BR>
      > >         Many meterologists
      > have tried to understand Tornados, but <BR>
      > because<BR>
      > > they really don't know the basic principles involved, their <BR>
      > analysis have<BR>
      > > ended up with no basic reasonings with have given man
      > controlling<BR>
      > > answers.  If people would have given the tornado stopping,
      > when <BR>
      > wells<BR>
      > > were drilled as they were insulated from the surrounding layers
      > of<BR>
      > > conducting minerals that were being drilled through, the same <BR>
      > amount of<BR>
      > > effort as the weather men have, we certainly ought to have solved
      > <BR>
      > the<BR>
      > > problem by now. <BR>
      > >         I thought I had
      > covered this topic on my web site.<BR>
      > > <a
      > href="Http://www.vorbitz.com/electrojet">Http://www.vorbitz.com/electro
      > jet</a>      If anyone has specific <BR>
      > questions I<BR>
      > > would be glad to share my opinions.   Dr. Walter O.
      > Peterson<BR>
      > > <BR>
      > > On Tue, 8 Oct 2002 02:48:44 -0600 "kirk"
      > <kirk@3...> writes:<BR>
      > >   Opinions?<BR>
      > >   Kirk<BR>
      > > <BR>
      > > <a
      > href="http://nov55.com/tor.html">http://nov55.com/tor.html</a><BR>
      > > The Cause of Tornadoes<BR>
      > > Tornadoes are caused when a cloud of the right size precipitates
      > <BR>
      > rapidly<BR>
      > > releasing heat, which causes it to rise and creates a vacuum under
      > <BR>
      > it.<BR>
      > > Air<BR>
      > > rushing under it creates the vortex.<BR>
      > > <BR>
      > > As much as tornadoes have been studied, and as obvious as the <BR>
      > physics is,<BR>
      > > the weather predictors still don't have it figured out. Only
      > newly<BR>
      > > forming<BR>
      > > rain clouds can create tornadoes, yet tornado warnings are always
      > <BR>
      > given<BR>
      > > for<BR>
      > > old clouds.<BR>
      > > <BR>
      > > It is known that a sudden drop in air pressure precedes tornadoes.
      > <BR>
      > The<BR>
      > > pressure drop is caused by a cloud near the ground rising
      > rapidly<BR>
      > > creating a<BR>
      > > partial vacuum below it.<BR>
      > > <BR>
      > > Precipitation releases as much heat as evaporation absorbs.
      > But<BR>
      > > precipitation tends to be much faster than evaporation. So a very
      > <BR>
      > large<BR>
      > > amount of heat is released when a cloud precipitates.<BR>
      > > <BR>
      > > Heat of course causes air to rise. When a cloud near the ground
      > <BR>
      > rises, it<BR>
      > > creates a partial vacuum under it.<BR>
      > > <BR>
      > > The cloud must be the right size for a tornado to occur. A very
      > <BR>
      > large<BR>
      > > cloud<BR>
      > > would not precipitate uniformly, so the whole cloud would not rise
      > <BR>
      > at<BR>
      > > once.<BR>
      > > A very small cloud would not produce enough precipitation or heat
      > to<BR>
      > > create<BR>
      > > a large enough vacuum for a tornado to form.<BR>
      > > <BR>
      > > Also, the height from the ground would be important, because the
      > <BR>
      > speed at<BR>
      > > which the air moves in rushing under it will depend upon the
      > amount <BR>
      > of<BR>
      > > space<BR>
      > > below the cloud.<BR>
      > > <BR>
      > > These dynamics only exist during the first few minutes of the <BR>
      > formation<BR>
      > > of a<BR>
      > > heavy cloud. Older clouds precipitate gradually and higher in the
      > <BR>
      > air, so<BR>
      > > no<BR>
      > > vacuum is created.<BR>
      > > <BR>
      > > Modern doppler radar substantiates this point. When a tornado
      > is<BR>
      > > reported,<BR>
      > > doppler radar shows that a new cloud formed out of nowhere where
      > the<BR>
      > > tornado<BR>
      > > was said to be.<BR>
      > > <BR>
      > > Therefore, if people are to be warned in advanced, it has to be
      > for <BR>
      > an<BR>
      > > area<BR>
      > > where clouds are expected to form but have not yet appeared.<BR>
      > > <BR>
      > > It might be possible to prevent a cloud from creating a tornado
      > by<BR>
      > > seeding<BR>
      > > part of it, so it precipitates prematurely and nonuniformly. But
      > <BR>
      > the time<BR>
      > > factor would be a problem in locating a newly forming cloud.<BR>
      > > <BR>
      > > Cumulous clouds will not create tornadoes, because they dissipate
      > <BR>
      > energy<BR>
      > > continuously, and they precipitate too high in the air. A tornado
      > <BR>
      > cloud<BR>
      > > has<BR>
      > > to form rapidly and dissipate its energy all at once. This occurs
      > <BR>
      > when<BR>
      > > hot,<BR>
      > > humid air hits colder air. A typical example is gulf air turning
      > <BR>
      > north<BR>
      > > and<BR>
      > > colliding with other air over Arkansas. In the northern plains,
      > <BR>
      > clouds<BR>
      > > usually form more gradually and dissipate energy through
      > cumulous<BR>
      > > formations.<BR>
      > > <BR>
      > > <BR>
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]<BR>
      > > <BR>
      > > <BR>
      > > <BR>
      > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor<BR>
      > > ADVERTISEMENT<BR>
      > > <BR>
      > > <BR>
      > > <BR>
      > > <BR>
      > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:<BR>
      > > methanehydrateclub-unsubscribe@y...<BR>
      > > <BR>
      > > <BR>
      > > <BR>
      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of <BR>
      > Service. <BR>
      > > <BR>
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]<BR>
      > <BR>
      > </tt>
      >
      > <br>
      >
      > <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
      >
      > <table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>
      > <tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC>
      > <td align=center><font size="-1" color=#003399><b>Yahoo! Groups
      > Sponsor</b></font></td>
      > </tr>
      > <tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF>
      > <td align=center width=470><TABLE WIDTH=300 HEIGHT=250 border=0
      > cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0><tr><td align=center><font face=arial
      > size=-2>ADVERTISEMENT</font><br>
      > <TR>
      > <TD>
      > <a
      > href="http://rd.yahoo.com/M=212804.2460941.3878106.2225242/D=egroupweb/
      > S=1705083601:HM/A=810327/R=0/*http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info?.refer
      > =blrecs" target=_top><IMG
      > SRC="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ya/yahoo_geocities/lrec2b_1_01
      > .jpg" WIDTH=185 HEIGHT=250 BORDER=0></a></TR></TD>
      > <TD>
      > <a
      > href="http://rd.yahoo.com/M=212804.2460941.3878106.2225242/D=egroupweb/
      > S=1705083601:HM/A=810327/R=1/*http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info?.refer
      > =blrecs" target=_top><IMG
      > SRC="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ya/yahoo_geocities/lrec2b_2_02
      > .gif" WIDTH=115 HEIGHT=250 BORDER=0></TD>
      > </TR></a>
      > </TABLE></td>
      > </tr>
      > <tr><td><img alt="" width=1 height=1
      > src="http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=212804.2460941.3878106.2225242/D=
      > egroupmail/S=:HM/A=810327/rand=171371561"></td></tr>
      > </table>
      >
      > <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
      >
      >
      > <br>
      > <tt>
      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:<BR>
      > methanehydrateclub-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<BR>
      > <BR>
      > </tt>
      > <br>
      >
      > <br>
      > <tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a
      > href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms of
      > Service</a>.</tt>
      > </br>
      >
      > </body></html>
      >
    • Mike Doran
      I am no expert on the subject. However I have read the Lindzen, Fu and Hartmann papers and think I know enough to apply EMFs to the cloud dynamics via cirrus
      Message 32 of 32 , Oct 19, 2002
      View Source
      • 0 Attachment
        I am no expert on the subject. However I have read the Lindzen, Fu
        and Hartmann papers and think I know enough to apply EMFs to the
        cloud dynamics via cirrus IR forcings in a meaningful manner.

        Even if high clouds lead to relative heat stability heat loss leads
        to cooling, more dense and falling air. RELATIVELY speaking, the
        contrasts create instability.

        --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
        > All clouds block the escape of infrared radiation. Net warming of
        air
        > below cirrus clouds would tend to make the air more stable, not
        less.
        >
        > Cirrus clouds are not very effective at blocking sunlight so most
        of
        > the solar energy still reaches the ground allowing heating at low
        > levels to occur and thus rising air (as in fair weather). However,
        as
        > that air rises it now will be moving into an environment that is
        not
        > as cold at higher levels than without the cirrus cover. (Cirrus
        > blocking infrared radiation as you said allowing the air below the
        > clouds to warm). I would submit that this might tend to inhibit
        > vertical motion, not enhance it.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "Mike Doran" <mike@u...> wrote:
        > > Cirrus trap infra red radiation. Underneath that means warming
        > air,
        > > a rising air mass and to the surface a low.
        > >
        > > Fair weather allows heat easily to escape to space. Without the
        > > updraft, gravity pulls the air down, with no rising vacuum impact
        > > high pressures form.
        > >
        > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
        > > > <<The issue here is cirrus clouds, because they vary upper
        > > > atmospheric heat values bigtime and create movements of that
        air,
        > > or
        > > > instability.>>
        > > >
        > > > Just how do the cirrus clouds vary upper atmospheric heat
        values
        > > big
        > > > time or create movements of air or instability?
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "Mike Doran" <mike@u...> wrote:
        > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "David" <b1blancer1@e...>
        wrote:
        > > > > > Well said, Fred. To make a thunderstorm, you need three
        > > things :
        > > > > > heat, moisture, and an unstable atmosphere.
        > > > >
        > > > > The issue here is cirrus clouds, because they vary upper
        > > > atmospheric
        > > > > heat values bigtime and create movements of that air, or
        > > > instability.
        > > > >
        > > > > Doran waves travel much faster then a frontal system. They
        > > travel
        > > > > faster then 'heat'.
        > > > >
        > > > > A thunderstorm in Texas has EMF implications for one in Iowa,
        > and
        > > > > hence convective implications. Therefore the daily heating
        and
        > > > > cooling has timing implication feedbacks, re-enforcing time
        of
        > > day
        > > > > activity.
        > > > >
        > > > > But if a hurricane landfalls during the night, the Doran
        waves
        > > and
        > > > > rain pay little attention to what the ionsphere is doing,
        > rising
        > > or
        > > > > contracting.
        > > > >
        > > > > We see what we want to see, hear what we want to hear. The
        > trick
        > > > is
        > > > > to be able to listen and observe without losing your state of
        > > mind.
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.