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Re: [Methane Hydrate Club] The Cause of Tornadoes.

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  • Mike Doran
    I wholly agree with Walt on several points and strongly disagree on others. What we agree on is that EMF is involved in tornado formation. This is almost
    Message 1 of 32 , Oct 9 8:57 AM
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      I wholly agree with Walt on several points and strongly disagree on

      What we agree on is that EMF is involved in tornado formation. This
      is almost without doubt. Further, preventitive measures that are
      basically looking at EMF can be made. Finally, jet stream driven
      twisters have an EMF aspect.

      Where we part is that the process of convection is a sort of hybred
      between cloud behavior and infra red heat produced by cloud makeup,
      and a more capacitive EMF behavior of the clouds. What happens with
      the jet stream is probably both an inducting motion relative to the
      conductive ionosphere as well as a very fast wind that moves ions
      such that it can create both an air pressure AND and EMF area of
      instability. If an area in the lower ionosphere obtains a relatively
      positive charge that is when you will see cirrus clouds enhanced in
      contrast w/ other areas of the storm, and the new cloud gets formed,
      just as Kirk describes. This is an awesome connection, BTW, Kirk.
      Really good science.

      The SE does not apply, if it exists, simply because of the insulative
      values of the air can only be overcome by a capacitive movement of
      ions. These discharges are without direction, really. That is
      because the convective processes that cause the currents are not
      dependant on the SE but on the ambiant winds . . .

      Further, there are other ways that tornadic activity can occur from
      an EMF standpoint other than jet stream derived instabilities. In my
      view, many Texas storms are related to "shorts" in the ionosphere
      between Doran wave dry strip regions--related to the water vapor
      streams from the Gulf of California and GOM and varying potentials of
      them. This may be confusing, but the point remains that the cause of
      ionospheric instabilities can be both mechanical and electrical.

      --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., foryeshua1@j... wrote:
      > Kirk, When oil drilling rigs were first being tried they were
      > by two things. Ligntening burned them, and tornadoes twisted them
      > shreds. They were afraid that for a while they could not overcome
      > problems. They then found that when they insulated the drilling
      > both problems were stopped. The only problem is that they didn't
      > that information they found to explain and understand what caused
      > lightening and tornadoes. The culprit is electrical discharge from
      > ground through the funnel to the clouds and into the jet stream
      > What demands the flow is the current in the jet stream. Acting
      like a
      > siphoning hose the flow of current goes along well when its
      > cloud and storms are over well conducting land and the discharge is
      > smooth or building, but when one or some of the storms feeding the
      > stream are pulled over nonconductive places, the jet stream sucks
      on the
      > path demanding more as it is being forced to slow down its flow.
      > causes a sort of jump demand on areas that are potential sources of
      > discharge. This jump demand bring into place pathways of moisture
      > the flow to go through. All of this is weather related because we
      > observed the high air and low air and the fronts that have to come
      > together to provide the right demands for electrical discharge of
      > Solar Electrojet Current.
      > The display of tornadoes in the North East was caused I
      > by a network of chem trails which laid a completely total net of
      > discharge pathways over all of the area. This net was used by the
      SE to
      > discharge into causing tornadoes over the whole area just like the
      > stream, when it starts to run out of flow power it jump starts all
      > possibly able to provide that discharge. The net caused a hook up
      of a
      > huge area of potential discharges. This phenomena could not have
      > happened in the natural because no storm sets up such a totally
      > net of discharge potential pathways.
      > Knowing that tornados are caused by discharge is a really
      > important fact. This information could be used to provide pathways
      > discharge which could be harnessed to be used for a power source for
      > man's needs. Tornados only can occur at places capable of providing
      > discharge. Badlands are caused by tornado after tornado digging
      > and again on places that have mineral connections or wet conditions
      > enable discharge pathways for the SE. Studying tornados with these
      > things in mind can give us ways to control tornados in specific
      > Small towns hit by destroying tornados, can be tornado proofed by
      > a well grounded pathway through a playground path through the town,
      > that if any tornado wants SE through its houses, it will have better
      > pathways of conductance through the better conductor that is in
      > Electricity always takes the path of best conductance or least
      > resistance in the presence of pressing charges. I outlined this
      > information years ago and it has been totally ignored. Its like
      > insurance companies don't want people to not have a reason to buy
      > policies. When if people have access to information about tornado
      > activity in their areas and know how to stay away from building
      > that act as conductors for tornados, like railroad rails through
      > that will only use them for conductors to any storm that might pass
      > enough to demand SE through them. Each situation can be analyzed
      > protection from tornado destruction can be provided by simply
      > the rules of insulating and conductance to provide safety places
      for man
      > and his buildings. A problem of course in this method is that
      seeing the
      > whole picture of what happens when storms pass over different
      places in
      > given areas, is a many splendered problem. Many variables are
      > and it is likely that errors of thinking through what will happen
      > occur. However the task of doing the analyzing is a beginning and
      > in the long run protect what man doesn't want destroyed. The rules
      > all electrical and are very basically simple.
      > Many meterologists have tried to understand Tornados, but
      > they really don't know the basic principles involved, their
      analysis have
      > ended up with no basic reasonings with have given man controlling
      > answers. If people would have given the tornado stopping, when
      > were drilled as they were insulated from the surrounding layers of
      > conducting minerals that were being drilled through, the same
      amount of
      > effort as the weather men have, we certainly ought to have solved
      > problem by now.
      > I thought I had covered this topic on my web site.
      > Http://www.vorbitz.com/electrojet If anyone has specific
      questions I
      > would be glad to share my opinions. Dr. Walter O. Peterson
      > On Tue, 8 Oct 2002 02:48:44 -0600 "kirk" <kirk@3...> writes:
      > Opinions?
      > Kirk
      > http://nov55.com/tor.html
      > The Cause of Tornadoes
      > Tornadoes are caused when a cloud of the right size precipitates
      > releasing heat, which causes it to rise and creates a vacuum under
      > Air
      > rushing under it creates the vortex.
      > As much as tornadoes have been studied, and as obvious as the
      physics is,
      > the weather predictors still don't have it figured out. Only newly
      > forming
      > rain clouds can create tornadoes, yet tornado warnings are always
      > for
      > old clouds.
      > It is known that a sudden drop in air pressure precedes tornadoes.
      > pressure drop is caused by a cloud near the ground rising rapidly
      > creating a
      > partial vacuum below it.
      > Precipitation releases as much heat as evaporation absorbs. But
      > precipitation tends to be much faster than evaporation. So a very
      > amount of heat is released when a cloud precipitates.
      > Heat of course causes air to rise. When a cloud near the ground
      rises, it
      > creates a partial vacuum under it.
      > The cloud must be the right size for a tornado to occur. A very
      > cloud
      > would not precipitate uniformly, so the whole cloud would not rise
      > once.
      > A very small cloud would not produce enough precipitation or heat to
      > create
      > a large enough vacuum for a tornado to form.
      > Also, the height from the ground would be important, because the
      speed at
      > which the air moves in rushing under it will depend upon the amount
      > space
      > below the cloud.
      > These dynamics only exist during the first few minutes of the
      > of a
      > heavy cloud. Older clouds precipitate gradually and higher in the
      air, so
      > no
      > vacuum is created.
      > Modern doppler radar substantiates this point. When a tornado is
      > reported,
      > doppler radar shows that a new cloud formed out of nowhere where the
      > tornado
      > was said to be.
      > Therefore, if people are to be warned in advanced, it has to be for
      > area
      > where clouds are expected to form but have not yet appeared.
      > It might be possible to prevent a cloud from creating a tornado by
      > seeding
      > part of it, so it precipitates prematurely and nonuniformly. But
      the time
      > factor would be a problem in locating a newly forming cloud.
      > Cumulous clouds will not create tornadoes, because they dissipate
      > continuously, and they precipitate too high in the air. A tornado
      > has
      > to form rapidly and dissipate its energy all at once. This occurs
      > hot,
      > humid air hits colder air. A typical example is gulf air turning
      > and
      > colliding with other air over Arkansas. In the northern plains,
      > usually form more gradually and dissipate energy through cumulous
      > formations.
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    • Mike Doran
      I am no expert on the subject. However I have read the Lindzen, Fu and Hartmann papers and think I know enough to apply EMFs to the cloud dynamics via cirrus
      Message 32 of 32 , Oct 19 9:04 AM
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        I am no expert on the subject. However I have read the Lindzen, Fu
        and Hartmann papers and think I know enough to apply EMFs to the
        cloud dynamics via cirrus IR forcings in a meaningful manner.

        Even if high clouds lead to relative heat stability heat loss leads
        to cooling, more dense and falling air. RELATIVELY speaking, the
        contrasts create instability.

        --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
        > All clouds block the escape of infrared radiation. Net warming of
        > below cirrus clouds would tend to make the air more stable, not
        > Cirrus clouds are not very effective at blocking sunlight so most
        > the solar energy still reaches the ground allowing heating at low
        > levels to occur and thus rising air (as in fair weather). However,
        > that air rises it now will be moving into an environment that is
        > as cold at higher levels than without the cirrus cover. (Cirrus
        > blocking infrared radiation as you said allowing the air below the
        > clouds to warm). I would submit that this might tend to inhibit
        > vertical motion, not enhance it.
        > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "Mike Doran" <mike@u...> wrote:
        > > Cirrus trap infra red radiation. Underneath that means warming
        > air,
        > > a rising air mass and to the surface a low.
        > >
        > > Fair weather allows heat easily to escape to space. Without the
        > > updraft, gravity pulls the air down, with no rising vacuum impact
        > > high pressures form.
        > >
        > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
        > > > <<The issue here is cirrus clouds, because they vary upper
        > > > atmospheric heat values bigtime and create movements of that
        > > or
        > > > instability.>>
        > > >
        > > > Just how do the cirrus clouds vary upper atmospheric heat
        > > big
        > > > time or create movements of air or instability?
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "Mike Doran" <mike@u...> wrote:
        > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "David" <b1blancer1@e...>
        > > > > > Well said, Fred. To make a thunderstorm, you need three
        > > things :
        > > > > > heat, moisture, and an unstable atmosphere.
        > > > >
        > > > > The issue here is cirrus clouds, because they vary upper
        > > > atmospheric
        > > > > heat values bigtime and create movements of that air, or
        > > > instability.
        > > > >
        > > > > Doran waves travel much faster then a frontal system. They
        > > travel
        > > > > faster then 'heat'.
        > > > >
        > > > > A thunderstorm in Texas has EMF implications for one in Iowa,
        > and
        > > > > hence convective implications. Therefore the daily heating
        > > > > cooling has timing implication feedbacks, re-enforcing time
        > > day
        > > > > activity.
        > > > >
        > > > > But if a hurricane landfalls during the night, the Doran
        > > and
        > > > > rain pay little attention to what the ionsphere is doing,
        > rising
        > > or
        > > > > contracting.
        > > > >
        > > > > We see what we want to see, hear what we want to hear. The
        > trick
        > > > is
        > > > > to be able to listen and observe without losing your state of
        > > mind.
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