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Re: [Methane Hydrate Club] A 10th "planet"?

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  • foryeshua1@juno.com
    Wow, Kirk, Good show. Walter I would like to see more. Could I have titles of books to look for and authors? Is Astronomy Baker s title in 59? What
    Message 1 of 2 , Sep 8 6:54 PM
      Wow, Kirk, Good show. Walter
      I would like to see more. Could I have titles of books to look for
      and authors? Is "Astronomy" Baker's title in 59? What is Patten and
      Windsor"s book? Thanks! Walter

      On Sat, 7 Sep 2002 14:15:27 -0600 "kirk" <kirk@...> writes:
      Here is Ch 2 where Patten and Windsor describe some problems with modern
      cosmology. After he shows how current theory is inadequate (termed
      he then shows later what could explain all the anomolies. I find it quite
      fascinating. ---Kirk
      CHAPTER 2
      An Inspection of The Nebular Hypothesis Cosmology
      The object of science is not only to apply the different substances in
      nature to the advantage, benefit, and comfort of man, but likewise to set
      forth that wonderful and magnificent history of wisdom and intelligence
      which is written in legible characters both in the heavens and on the
      - Sir Humphrey Davy
      This chapter is about demolition, which is actually an early phase of new
      construction. Under examination is the variety of the assumptions,
      and conclusions built into the popular Nebular Hypothesis cosmology. The
      Alfven variation, one of the most recent, is the variation under
      unless otherwise stated. Will the widely accepted Nebular Hypothesis, as
      scientific theory, pass a rigorous, detailed "building" inspection?
      Inspection Detail #1
      Centrifugal Force as a Mechanism
      In the original Nebular Hypothesis, the mechanism for the distribution of
      the Sun's cometary tail in space was a function of centrifugal force.
      mechanism threw solar material out into space far beyond the Sun where
      material might cool, collect, condense and accrete.
      The Sun's circumference is 2,700,000 miles. Its spin rate at its equator,
      where its material rotates fastest, is once in 26.8 days. Here, the
      of rotation of the Sun's photosphere is 4,200 mph at its equator. Spin at
      the top of Jupiter's equatorial clouds is 27,770 mph. It came from the
      14 The Recent Organization of The Solar System
      This mechanism was accepted for the first 150 years, but within the last
      years its impossibility as a mechanism has been recognized and
      Thus, the original engine or mechanism of this theory has been faulty
      its inception.
      Inspection Detail # 2
      Accretion Versus Dispersion in Space
      In our Solar System, orbiting bodies have high velocities. The velocity
      remote Neptune is 12,100 mph. Velocities of planets and asteroids
      as distance to the Sun diminishes. The Earth's velocity is about 66,600
      Mercury's velocity is 107,000 mph. At such velocities, accretion does not
      When colliding, small grains of material would tend to fragment, or
      Then they would ricochet into another orbit. This is a dispersal
      not an accreting one. Cometary tails are good examples of dispersion.
      Asteroid distribution is another example of dispersion. Meteor streams
      are a
      third example of the real cosmos where dispersion is the pattern. Io's
      "smoke ring" of sulfurous gases is fourth example. Io orbits in 42.5
      and orbits back into its own sulfurous cloud, caused by an electrical
      tube. Io enters into its own smoke ring 42 hours after vaporization of
      crust. This smoke ring is a fourth example of dispersion. Accretion is a
      false mechanism where velocities are high, as they are in the solar
      we know.
      The principle of dispersion, not gathering, is functioning throughout the
      inner solar system. However, Alfven still proposes accretion as a
      even if it is as impossible as centrifugal force. The lack of a
      mechanism for the Nebular Hypothesis also needs to be cited, and
      Inspection Detail # 3
      The Moon's Capture to Become an Earth Satellite
      The old Nebular Hypothesis required the Moon to be formed "in place." The
      newer theses advocate the notion that the Earth somehow captured the Moon
      the fly some four billion years ago, more or less. This implies that the
      Moon formerly orbited around the Sun, and crossed the Earth's orbit,
      approaching the Earth where it was captured on the fly.
      The Earth's gravity is in a tug of war with the Sun's gravity in space.
      Earth is 93,000,000 miles from the Sun. The Sun is 331,600 times as
      as the Earth. The gravitational tug of war calculates out that the Earth
      cannot have a satellite further out than 750,0000 miles from the Earth's
      core without losing it to the Sun.
      CHAPTER 2 An Inspection of The Nebular Hypothesis Cosmology
      The Earth's orbit is rather round, at 1.67% eccentricity. The Earth's
      orbital velocity around the Sun is 66,600 mph. The Moon's solar orbit
      have been more elliptical, or eccentric. This means that the Moon's
      theoretical velocity would have had to have been greater than 66,600 mph
      when it crossed the Earth's orbit.
      The Moon's maximum trajectory through the Earth's "zone of control"
      of action of 750,000 miles) would be for only 1,500,000 miles. The Moon
      would sail through this zone in less than 21 hours.
      Gradualists have to assume that somehow the Earth could slow down the
      perhaps from 70,000 mph to 2,200 mph, its present velocity, all in 21
      or less. Such a correction is not only impossible, but is far beyond the
      boundary of sanity. This subset idea of a capture of the Moon by the
      93,000,000 miles from the Sun, is mathematical madness. The Earth under
      these conditions cannot even slow down a tiny asteroid. In fact, a tiny
      asteroid approaching the Earth speeds up a little.
      The capture of the Moon on the fly by the Earth is a violation of
      mechanics. But there the Moon is. And in the Nebular Hypothesis, the
      is alleged never to have had another orbit. A moon capture on the fly by
      Earth in its modem orbit has to be red lined.
      Inspection Detail # 4
      The Distribution of Mass in our Solar System
      It requires less energy to throw a baseball 90 feet than 290 feet. It
      requires less energy for the Sun to theoretically throw a planet out
      30,000,000 miles than 480,000,000, or perhaps 2,800,000,000 miles (where
      Jupiter and Neptune reside).
      Solar temperatures in the photosphere region rise to well over 10,000
      degrees F. Booster energies in that tortured plasma allow prominences and
      filaments to flare out some 25,000 miles. Spicules are suddenly ejected
      of the Sun's chromosphere 5,000 to 10,000 miles. But all of these
      are rapidly brought back within the Sun's mass.
      The Sun's flares are due to the enormity of the temperatures and the
      turbulence in the Sun's photosphere. But the rapidity of the recall of
      flares is due to the enormity of the Sun's gravity. The masses of the
      combined planets is 0.013% compared to the Sun's contribution to the
      System mass, which is 99.87%. Of the tiny total of the planetary mass,
      Jupiter has 71% and Jove is 483,000,000 miles from the Sun. Next largest
      Saturn at 21%. Neptune and Uranus represent 3.8% and 3.3% of the
      The locations of the largest planets emphasize great distances. On the
      hand, the closest planets, Mercury, Venus, the Earth, the Moon and Mars
      total only 0.4% of the total planetary mass. This kind of distribution
      indicates the Sun is not the
      16 The Recent Organization of The Solar System
      "mother" of the planets except in an adoptive sense. Wherever the planets
      originated, however they got here, plainly their origin was not the Sun.
      This rather straight-forward analysis of distribution of mass in the
      System, to physicists, retired the original Nebular Hypothesis almost a
      century ago. Any chance discharge of mass by the Sun would throw its
      planets nearby, and its tiniest planets farthest out. Such a logical
      is precisely the opposite from the real solar system. Red-line the
      distribution of mass issue in the old junker.
      Inspection Detail # 5
      The Ecliptic Plane of the Solar System
      The following orbital planes of the inner eight planets relate to the
      Earth's orbit plane as follows:
      a. Mercury 7.0 degrees
      b. Venus 3.4
      c. Earth 0
      d. Mars 1.8
      e. Jupiter 1.3
      f. Saturn 2.5
      g. Uranus 0.8
      h. Neptune 1.8
      i. Sun's equator 7.2
      In all the variations of the Nebular Hypothesis, a diffusion of planetary
      materials should be in evidence. Such a diffusion in fact is the opposite
      the real condition. The ecliptic plane is the orbital plane of the Earth.
      The Earth shares this plane with seven other planets. This plane looks
      much like the plane, or the delivery route, by which the planets were
      delivered from deep space to be captured by the Sun. United Parcel has
      repeating routes and their couriers regularly drop off parcels along that
      route. Better it would be if we look at the planets and their satellite
      systems as parcels, dropped off at the Sun's doorstep by a certain,
      delivery system. The ecliptic plane points to the orbit plane of the
      delivery system.
      Red-line the old junker on the basis that this fact, the ecliptic plane,
      points to an external delivery system from remote space. A distribution
      planets along a single route or plane belies the rationale of the Nebular
      Hypothesis. With respect to distribution of mass, red line the old junker
      for being illogical.
      CHAPTER 2 An Inspection of The Nebular Hypothesis Cosmology
      Inspection Detail # 6
      Angular Momentum and the Solar System
      The angular momentum of a spinning planet, revolving around the Sun, is
      its orbiting the Sun) the product of its mass, the square of the radius,
      the rate of angular motion. To this is added a small amount for spin
      on another equation. The principle of the conservation of angular
      asserts that the total OF THE ANGULAR MOMENTUM OF AN ISOLATED SYSTEM is
      always the same, although its distribution CAN be shifted. This principle
      illustrated by an ice skater who spins. As she tucks her arms in, she
      faster and faster. Angular momentum is transferred from her arms to her
      In our Solar System including the Sun and all the planets, Jupiter alone
      (not the Sun) contains 60% of the total angular momentum. Yet, Jove is
      that 1 % of the mass of the Sun. The four planetary giants, Jupiter,
      Uranus and Neptune together carry nearly 98% of the angular momentum in
      Solar System. The Sun has less than 2%. Clearly this is a departure from
      what was expected in the 18th and 19th century thinking.
      Angular momentum and its distribution is the reason for the introduction
      several variations of the Nebular Hypothesis. James Jeans' "Cigar-Shaped
      Filament" in 1919 is an example. Angular momentum distribution is the
      for the existence of Russell's "Triple Binary Bypass" in 1935 followed by
      Lyttleton's series of revisions to that.
      However, if the planets (with craters and satellite systems) were
      to the Sun from remote space, along the plane of the ecliptic plane, then
      the entire picture changes. This is what we suspect. In this case, the
      and its nine planets does not comprise an isolated system. Captures by
      Sun and deliveries from deep space were involved.
      One must keep in mind that the ecliptic plane looks like a delivery route
      for packages "addressed" to the Sun. The more meaningful questions are
      "What, When and Where did that delivery system function? How massive was
      How recent was its last delivery? Its "parcels" (at least 8 of the 9
      planets, Mercury to Neptune) today comprise 98% of the angular momentum
      this Solar System. This was a pricey delivery, because it provided 98% of
      the solar system angular momentum.
      Given the Delivery System for the planets, then the countless craters on
      surfaces of Mercury, on the Moon and on the various satellites of
      Saturn and Uranus all indicate there must be a great deal of debris
      slowly around the Sun out far beyond Pluto. The fact that these giant
      planets have satellite systems suggests the same thing.
      The true dimension of our Solar System is half way to the nearer stars,
      which is several light years in every direction. What astronomers can see
      within Pluto's orbit
      18 The Recent Organization of The Solar System
      has been considered an "isolated system" by the gradualists cosmologists.
      This is just as mythical as is their call for 4.6 billions of years of
      Planetary catastrophes were recent, within mankind's collective memory.
      Moreover, we shall cite four or five levels of evidence later in this
      indicating that the Sun has experienced a vast catastrophe so recently it
      still is in the process of recovery.
      What eyes with our telescopes can see, out as far as Pluto, relates in
      volume to the Sun's domain beyond like a basketball relates to a sphere
      a radius of 6 or 7 miles. Our ignorance of this vast region beyond Pluto
      profound. This is a fact that the Nebular Hypothesists of the 18th, 19th
      20th centuries and their various tune up mechanics seem to have
      The totality of the solar system is that volume of debris, and larger
      planets for instance, and their satellite systems, out there all slowly
      circling the Sun, half way to the nearer stars. Most of it man cannot see
      because reflected light in those regions is too dim for even our advanced
      telescopes to detect.
      Radio astronomy helps, but just a little. Noise is created by "some
      out beyond Pluto but nobody knows what or why. Apparently they are
      or else they would be silent. What has been our problem as humans? As
      cosmologists, in the vanity of our humanity, we have been unable to
      or consider that which we cannot see.
      What is needed, as a substitute for better searching of the Solar System
      beyond Pluto, is therefore a compilation of evidence, if any, clues as to
      the existence of such a delivery system, a United Parcel Service of the
      We suspect there is a massive amount of angular momentum within the Sun's
      radius of action, but its zone stretches half way out to the nearer
      several light years in length. Some angular momentum apparently was
      dropped off at the doorstep of the Sun. It merely changed location. The
      redistribution of angular momentum of the Solar System could be just that
      simple in theory.
      The inspector's review of the Nebular Hypothesis includes the issue of
      angular momentum and its distribution. The old junker, as a functioning
      idea, fails badly once again and is again red-lined. Jeans, Russell,
      Lyttleton and others have identified the problem, thankfully, but as
      traditionalists, they did not look carefully to deep space to supply the
      correct solution.
      We cite a summary by Robert H. Baker:
      A successful theory of the evolution of the solar system must account not
      only for the present total angular momentum of the system but also for
      distribution. Jupiter alone has 60% of the total.
      A variation known as the "tidal hypothesis" supposes that an envelope of
      materials was torn from the sun by a passing star. This version is not
      favored, because in order
      CHAPTER 2 An Inspection of The Nebular Hypothesis Cosmology
      to produce such effect the disturbing star would have to pass too near
      sun to have introduced the present angular momentum of the solar system.
      F 1
      The door is open for anyone to come up with a better hypothesis.
      and astronomers have tried. Now we, a geographer and an engineer, shall
      in our "two cents." We shall search for clues of planetary catastrophism
      among the scars of Mars, the scars of Venus, the scars of Mercury and the
      conditions ("scars") of the Sun. We search for physical evidence,
      from the recent space mission photography. From that data we then make
      obvious, logical conclusions.
      Our conclusions may not be "politically correct" according to the
      bureaucracy of astronomy, a bureaucracy that has embraced gradualist
      But our conclusions shall be grounded to facts. Many, perhaps most of
      facts are new, products of the space missions of the last three decades.
      Velocities of Debris in Remote Space at 1,000 A.U.
      One "a.u." is one astronomical unit, and its value is 92,959,000 miles.
      is the average distance, Earth to Sun. The "a.u." is just another
      measurement of length, like the inch, the centimeter, the yard, the rod
      the furlong. The only difference is that it is a bigger measure than
      measures with which most people are familiar.
      Kepler discovered three laws of planetary motions.One law is that orbit
      velocities follow a certain equation. If the distance from the Sun is
      increased, the period of that orbit also increases at a proportional
      Kepler found that if the distance of an orbit were cubed, the period of
      orbit is the square root of the cubed value*. For instance, Jupiter. Jove
      located (average) at 5.2028 a.u. (480,000,000 miles from he Sun.) The
      of 5.2028 equals 140.8356. Take the square root of 140.8356, which is
      11.8674. This number, 11.8674, is the number of years in Jupiter's orbit,
      that is, its period.
      Remote Pluto has a velocity of 10,600 mph. Pluto is 39.44 a.u, or
      3,671,000,000 miles from the center of the Sun. Pluto's period is 90,465
      days, or 247.68 years.
      Now we turn to a zone 25 times farther than Pluto, to 1,000 a.u. This
      is 93,000,000,000 miles (93,000,000 x 1,000) from the Sun. We cube the
      distance of 1,000 a.u. which is one billion. We take the square root of a
      billion, which is 31,622. This is the approximate period in years of a
      planet in that region orbiting at 1,000 a.u. We are interested in the
      velocity of a body at 1,000 a.u. from the Sun, some 25 times as far out
      Pluto. We assume a circular orbit. Its orbit circumference is 6263.2
      or 2 x pi. This value is multiplied by 93,000,000 (miles) and that
      is divided by 365.256 (the number of days per year), by 24 (the hours per
      day) and by 31,622 (the number of years for an orbit.) The result is a
      velocity of 2,101 mph in that cold, dark, remote region.
      This velocity happens to resemble the velocity of the Moon, orbiting the
      Earth at 2,289 mph. Perhaps this is the right kind of environment in
      the Earth could
      20 The Recent Organization of The Solar System
      capture a slow-velocity object such as the Moon. Perhaps this is the kind
      an environment where the Moon could first acquire numerous craters,
      distributed, if the miscellaneous debris in that region happens to be
      numerous. If so, the debris would collide with the Moon, at velocities in
      excess of 1,000 mph depending on the angle of the hit.
      We inspect the Nebular Hypothesis for its theory on Moon capture by the
      Earth. When both were near the Sun, with high velocities, we find a
      on the fly to be mathematical madness. Yet, there the Moon is. Red-line
      old junker once more for being unable to explain the Earth's capture of
      Moon, an event which evidently did happen.
      The Backward Rotation and "Pokey" Spin Rate of Venus
      Over the years the problems with the Nebular Hypothesis have increased.
      surprising results of space mission photography of the physical
      of the crusts of the planets and their satellites have been legion.
      For example, why does ever-so-hot and lonely Venus have numerous
      fresh-looking craters? Our answer is, in part, because Mars formerly had
      ring system, and during the Mars-Venus Wars some of the debris therein
      swept out of the ring system by Venus and some hit Venus.
      Interesting as that feature may be, it is not the big issue of Venus.
      rotates backward compared to the direction of rotation of the Sun and all
      other planets. In addition, and to make matters worse, its spin rate is
      slowest of all planets, only once in 243.01 days, backward, or
      At its equator Venus rotates backward at only 4.1 mph, walking speed.
      is about as fast as a good, gradualist geologist can hike across level
      ground. At our equator, as Venus' sister planet, we rotate forward at a
      velocity of 1,037.6 mph, which is supersonic jet speed.
      Of all the problems in the Solar System that need logical explanations,
      SLOW, BACKWARD ROTATION OF VENUS has been the most baffling to gradualist
      cosmologists. The first cosmology which explains this unique condition
      the planets might become the dominant cosmology of the 21st century. And
      possibly of even the entire third millennium A.D.
      PREVIEW. We understand the problem. We have the answer. It is presented
      later in this book. The answers are to be found in Chapter 6 of this
      Many of the other Solar System conditions have been considered
      "coincidences" or are otherwise "unexplainable" by the nebular hypothesis
      folk. Such a track record is not one of a winner.
      The Nebular Hypothesis is red-lined for yet other prominent
      It cannot explain why Mars has a nearly identical spin rate as the Earth,
      why Venus
      CHAPTER 2 An Inspection of The Nebular Hypothesis Cosmology
      rotates so slowly, retrograde. Nor can its apologists explain why Mars
      has a
      24-degree tilt to its spin axis, nearly identical to our planet's tilt at
      23.5 degrees. Is this another "coincidence" or is there a better
      Preview. This logical explanation of this phenomenon, "twin tilts," is in
      our second volume, "The Scars of Mars".
      We, as planetary catastrophists, have no problem explaining all three of
      preceding conditions in a logical manner. In our cosmological skyscraper
      planetary catastrophism, these conditions are explained as soon as the
      proper grounds have been laid.
      Almost 2,600 years ago, Jeremiah wrote something that touched on the
      of solar system history:
      He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his
      wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his direction. Jer. 10:13
      Almost a dozen red-linings of the old junker have been made, and more
      collapsing logic will be pointed out. The old junker's days are coming to
      end. We know it is ready for demolition, and on this same site, on
      Avenue, we have plans to erect a skyscraper to planetary catastrophism.
      The plans describe a tall, pyramid-shaped building with some 70 stories,
      some 750 feet tall. On each story will be one or more account of scars
      by past planetary catastrophism in our solar system. Thus, we refuse to
      demolish an old, collapsing structure of thought if we have no plans for
      better replacement. Actually, demolition, after planning, is the second
      phase of new construction, We do not want to demolish the old junker and
      leave only a vacant lot.
      There are more areas for red-lining, but nearly a dozen are more than
      sufficient to close the case on the famous old junker. The building
      inspector issues the demolition permit, and frankly, it is about time.
      rickety, sagging, fragile old building is ready to come down and the
      hauled to the dump.
      F 1 Robert H. Baker, Astronomy. Princeton: Van Nostrand, 1959, p.

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    • kirk
      The excerpt was from The Recent Organization of the Solar System by Donald W Patten and Samuel R Windsor. The address inside the cover is: Pacific Meridian
      Message 2 of 2 , Sep 8 8:42 PM
        The excerpt was from "The Recent Organization of the Solar System" by Donald
        W Patten and Samuel R Windsor.

        The address inside the cover is:

        Pacific Meridian Publishing Co
        13540 39th Ave N.E.
        Seattle, Washington 98125

        Was published in 95 but Patten was an old man then. Hope he is still alive
        and publishing.

        Re Baker I think so, was footnote 1.
        Was easier to read as HTML but list converted to text. Oh well.

        Glad you enjoyed it.


        -----Original Message-----
        From: foryeshua1@... [mailto:foryeshua1@...]
        Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2002 7:55 PM
        To: methanehydrateclub@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [Methane Hydrate Club] A 10th "planet"?

        Wow, Kirk, Good show. Walter
        I would like to see more. Could I have titles of books to look for
        and authors? Is "Astronomy" Baker's title in 59? What is Patten and
        Windsor"s book? Thanks! Walter
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.