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Re: The huge voltages of electrons over the eye

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  • pawnfart
    ... Good question. Again, break it down. The convection is the motor to cause charge separation and ultimately that convection, which is driven by the sun,
    Message 1 of 17 , Aug 2, 2002
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      --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
      > You are losing me again here.
      > You said that "underneath where there WAS the convection in Western
      > Africa, the positive charges that attracted the electron
      > concentration, in a capacitive manner, are no longer there."

      Good question. Again, break it down. The convection is the motor to
      cause charge separation and ultimately that convection, which is
      driven by the sun, is what keeps the lower ionosphere generally
      positively charged. That said, the MOST positively charged part of
      this dynamic is cirrus clouds pre-sprite/elve. There are TWO
      capacitive functions going on here, and really three if you hook in
      the oceans. That is because between GROUND and the lower portion of
      the clouds, there are dry line positive ion concentrations, which
      makes, by this opposits attract, the lower clouds NEGITIVE. HOWEVER,
      since no current flows but for strikes, elves and sprites, except
      inside the cloud itself, the upper part of the clouds becomes
      positive. Indeed, more positive than the lower ionosphere. Again,
      relatively speaking we are talking. So, above the positively charged
      upper cloud in capacitor number two, where there is, but for strikes,
      elves and sprites, no current in the air between cloud top and
      ionosphere. Therefore, electrons, if available, will move over that
      convective region and be drawn to the high clouds. Once the
      concentrations of ions get too extreme, say, from a strike from the
      low clouds--boom, you get elves and sprites and the cirrus are no
      longer opposites which attrack and are suspended by the EMF
      capacitive differences.


      What I am saying about the lower clouds to ocean dynamic is that it
      differs from the lower cloud to W. Africa dyamanic, that, int his
      particular situation resulted in the convection ending. While this
      ended the charge seperation that creates the ionosphere's positive
      charge, This still left this hug quantity of electrons in the
      ionosphere with no very positive cloud any more to be attracted to--
      so it moves to the ITCZ to get some further positive charges.



      >
      > Unerneath the convection over West Aftrica the thunderstorms will
      > induce a positive charge on the ground in response to the negative
      > charge in the lower portion of the clouds. The result is cloud to
      > ground lightning. The stream of electrons channels downward from
      the
      > cloud to the ground. As it nears the ground a positively charged
      > channel meets it (return stroke?). What I understan you to mean is
      > that after the discharges the ground and the lower cloud electical
      > charges are neutralized. ????
      >
      > Then you said "That means these electrons concentrations will move
      > (repelled by themselves, attracted to other positive cloud tops"
      >
      > I am lost here because I would think that the there would no longer
      > be an electron concentration.
      >
      > anyway, I have said I am unsure when it comes to electricity.
      >
      > fred
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > > <<"And if so, it makes the charge on the front more what?">>
      You
      > > > lost me here - what front? Do you mean the ITCZ?
      > >
      > > The ITCZ--yes. What happens is that relatively speaking
      underneath
      > > where there WAS the convection in Western Africa, the positive
      > > charges that attracted the electron concentration, in a
      capacitive
      > > manner, are no longer there. That means these electrons
      > > concentrations will move (repelled by themselves, attracted to
      > other
      > > positive cloud tops). In this case, they move along the ITCZ to
      > > reach a similar equillibrium as that which occurred over the
      > > convective cloud cover.
      > >
      > > I am not the only one interested in this theory. Check out this:
      > >
      > > http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/07/31/earth.rays/index.html
      > >
      > > Report: Cosmic rays influence climate change
      > > July 31, 2002 Posted: 9:26 AM EDT (1326 GMT)
      > >
      > > By Richard Stenger
      > >
      > > (CNN) -- The Earth has experienced higher surface but not
      > atmospheric
      > > temperatures in recent decades. Now a climate scientist thinks he
      > > knows why: highly charged particles originating beyond the solar
      > > system.
      > >
      > > The inconsistencies in ground and air temperature patterns have
      led
      > > some scientists to dismiss the idea that global warming is taking
      > > place.
      > >
      > > But one New York researcher suggests the discrepancy takes place
      > > because of the effect of interstellar cosmic rays on cloud
      > coverage.
      > > Other climate scientists have proposed a link between cosmic rays
      > and
      > > clouds.
      > >
      > > Research professor Fangqun Yu of the State University of New York-
      > > Albany goes further, proposing that low and high altitude clouds
      > > react differently to the rays, contributing to greater thermostat
      > > gaps near the surface and higher in the atmosphere.
      > >
      > > The number of cosmic rays that strike Earth depends to some
      degree
      > on
      > > the sun. Solar winds, which can protect the Earth from the
      > > interstellar rays, vary in intensity as the sun waxes and wanes
      in
      > > intensity, according to Yu.
      > >
      > > "A systematic change in global cloud cover will change the
      > > atmospheric heating profile," he said in a statement this week.
      > >
      > > "In other words, the cosmic ray-induced global cloud changes
      could
      > be
      > > the long-sought mechanism connecting solar and climate
      > variability."
      > >
      > > Yu said that observations of global warming this century have
      > > corresponded with lowered cosmic ray intensities.
      > >
      > > The hypothesis does not disregard man-made contributions to
      climate
      > > change. Greenhouse gases introduced by humans could affect the
      > cosmic
      > > ray-cloud interactions, he said.
      > >
      > > In any case, Yu proposes that cosmic rays help stoke the
      formation
      > of
      > > dense clouds in the lower atmosphere while having a little or
      > > negative affect on cloud cover in the upper atmosphere.
      > >
      > > The low clouds retain more surface energy, keeping the
      surrounding
      > > air hot, while thin high clouds reflect more sunlight into space,
      > > keeping the upper atmosphere cooler.
      > >
      > > Satellite data offer evidence consistent with the hypothesis,
      which
      > > Yu presents in the July issue of the Journal of Geophysical
      > Research-
      > > Space Physics.
      > >
      > > +++++++
      > >
      > > Comments:
      > >
      > > What I want you to notice is the author of this research has NO
      EMF
      > > training directly--he is an atmospheric scientist. Further, and
      > more
      > > importantly, he has NO BIOLOGY in his background. Most of these
      > > scholars are highly specialized on the edge of their kens--and
      the
      > > cross thinking just isn't there:
      > >
      > > http://www.albany.edu/~yfq/resume_txt.html
      > >
      > > EDUCATION
      > >
      > > 1998 Ph.D., Atmospheric Sciences, University of
      > California
      > > at Los Angeles
      > > 1996 M.S., Atmospheric Sciences, University of
      > California
      > > at Los Angeles
      > > 1994 M.S., Atmospheric Physics, Institute of
      > Atmospheric
      > > Physics, China
      > > 1991 B.S., Atmospheric Sciences, Peking University,
      China
      > >
      > > PROFESSIONAL ACTIVITIES, AWARDS, HONORS
      > >
      > > Invited to give a review talk on the Effect of Galactic Cosmic
      > > Rays on Aerosol
      > > Nucleation, Workshop on Ion-Aerosol-Cloud Interactions,
      CERN,
      > > Geneva,
      > > Switzerland, April18-20, 2001.
      > > (http://cloud.web.cern.ch/cloud/iaci_workshop)
      > >
      > > Publications:
      > >
      > > Yu, F. and R. P. Turco, From molecular clusters to nanoparticles:
      > The
      > > role of ambient ionization in tropospheric aerosol formation, J.
      > > Geophys. Res., 106, 4797-4814, 2001.
      > >
      > > ++++++++++
      > >
      > > My point is that the experts are starting to see the EMF, as, for
      > > instance B-1 and I have been documenting for over a year now, but
      > > what isn't occurring is the connection between this physical
      > forcing
      > > and the stability of "climate" which can only come from
      modulation.
      > >
      > > Here are some additional links from the P. Sciences side of this:
      > >
      > > http://ae.atmos.uah.edu/AE/ams_2001b.html
      > >
      > > The SPECIAL workshop is entitled: "Space Weather and the Earth's
      > > Weather and Climate: Links between solar activity, magnetospheric
      > > variability, clouds, thunderstorms, and lightning." The workshop
      > > hosts three distinct thematic groups which are working on :
      > >
      > > (1) Global Atmospheric Electric Circuit
      > >
      > > (2) Charged Particle Fluxes, Events, and Statistics and
      > >
      > > (3) Sprites and Lightning.
      > >
      > > During the workshop, distinct introductory review lectures will
      be
      > > given and an extended poster session will be held for discussion
      > and
      > > planning of future research. For more detailed information on the
      > > SPECIAL goals, registration forms, and recent announcements,
      check
      > > out
      > >
      > > http://www.atmospheric-
      > electricity.org/newsletters/2001fall/research-
      > > activity.html
      > >
      > > http://www.sgo.fi/SPECIAL/
      > >
      > > http://www.atmospheric-
      > electricity.org/newsletters/2001fall/research-
      > > activity.html
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
      > > > > Okay. If a neg charge accumulates at one end of a capacitor,
      > > what
      > > > > happens to the charge on the other end?
      > > > >
      > > > > Say a wave rolls of the coast of Africa and it brings
      negitive
      > > > > charges to the ionosphere along the ITCZ. And quickly that
      > > charge
      > > > > spreads along the ITCZ all the way to South America, and in
      > this
      > > > > case, over the past day or so, all the way to the E. Pac.
      > > > > Underneath, the charge will have a tendency to be what? And
      if
      > > so,
      > > > > it makes the charge on the front more what? And so over the
      > > > > equatorial zones where there is fair weather, what charges
      will
      > > the
      > > > > ionosphere there become? Doran waves move by capacitance--
      > hence
      > > > > impedence is the measure of the oceans behavior . . .
      > > > >
      > > > > ++++++++++++++++++++++
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Below is a great link on dust.
      > > > >
      > > > > I think it really shows how EMFs are involved w/ the waves as
      > the
      > > > dry
      > > > > air has your positive voltage to ground and really charges
      the
      > > dust
      > > > > and makes them suspend whereas the water vaper in the the air
      > > takes
      > > > > away that charge and causes the dust to drop by gravity.
      > > > >
      > > > > Where you can really see the EMF/Gaia is as that dust wave
      goes
      > > > near
      > > > > our Florida West Keys area and gets broken up but then sort
      of
      > > > > reforms along the Texas coast . . .
      > > > >
      > > > > The final set of frames is interesting, too, from an EMF
      stand
      > > > point.
      > > > > What I want everyone to notice is how when that wave comes
      off
      > > the
      > > > > African coast it electrifies the entire Atlantic and connects
      > w/
      > > > the
      > > > > Pacific in a straight line. No waves, IOW, because the EMF
      > > contrast
      > > > > between the dry strip of the counter and equator and the wet
      > area
      > > > is
      > > > > so grand. But in the process of moving like that, I suspect
      it
      > > can
      > > > > cause instability.
      > > > >
      > > > > The SOI right now is flat zero w/ no TS activity anywhere.
      > > > >
      > > > > Understand it is very early spring for the Southern
      Hemisphere
      > > and
      > > > no
      > > > > hydrology is going to the ocean biosphere in the Carribean to
      > > speak
      > > > > of. Typically, we would start to see some hydrology in
      > September,
      > > > as
      > > > > someone here reminded us. BUT, with the dams, another story!
      > > > >
      > > > > With all these new sats and this new understanding of EMFs,
      > folks
      > > > > here are going to get a free intellectual ride that doesn't
      > come
      > > > > often in life. Strap up. It's going to be fun. When this
      > becomes
      > > > more
      > > > > mainstream, you can tell your grand kids you were there when
      it
      > > all
      > > > > started.
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/tropic/real-
      > > > > time/wavetrak/movies/atlsal/atlsalwavejava5.html
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
      > > > > > Capacitors store electricity and block the flow of Direct
      > > > Current.
      > > > > I
      > > > > > understand it to be two electric conductors separated by a
      > > > > > nonconductor of electric current.
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...>
      wrote:
      > > > > > > I totally agree that this is true--but disagree what I
      > think
      > > > you
      > > > > > may
      > > > > > > be trying to say.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Strikes over a TS would be like a leaking capaciter.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Do you know how a capaciter works?
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Put it this way--what do you think the charge of the
      > surface
      > > > > under
      > > > > > an
      > > > > > > eye is if the ionosphere carries a huge negitive charge?
      > > What
      > > > > kind
      > > > > > > of electrons will be favored on the surface? What charge
      > > will
      > > > be
      > > > > > > repelled and what attracted?
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...>
      > wrote:
      > > > > > > > RE: The huge voltages of electrons over the eye:
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > "Surprisingly, not much lightning occurs in the inner
      > core
      > > > > > (within
      > > > > > > > about 100 km or 60 mi) of the tropical cyclone center.
      > Only
      > > > > > around
      > > > > > > a
      > > > > > > > dozen or less cloud-to-ground strikes per hour occur
      > around
      > > > the
      > > > > > > > eyewall of the storm...."
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/tcfaq/G10.html
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...>
      > > wrote:
      > > > > > > > > have been observed, Fred.
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > And yes, it is a wave feature. Capacitance, for
      > > instance,
      > > > > > works
      > > > > > > > > between the ionosphere, which is conductive to direct
      > > > > currents,
      > > > > > > > and
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > "> the oceans, which is also conductive, BUT the air is
      > > > > > insulative--
      > > > > > > > just
      > > > > > > > > like a capaciter--which is thus able to communicate
      > waves
      > > > but
      > > > > > not
      > > > > > > > > DC. Get it?
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx
      <no_reply@y...>
      > > > wrote:
      > > > > > > > > > <<"LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical
      > systems
      > > > are
      > > > > > > > > > electrical.">>
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > I am not sure what you mean here. As far as I
      > remember,
      > > > > > > tropical
      > > > > > > > > > storms have less electrical energy (fewer lightning
      > > > strikes)
      > > > > > > than
      > > > > > > > > > would be expected. I understand the reason has to
      do
      > > with
      > > > > the
      > > > > > > > low
      > > > > > > > > > level air temps being high and that this does not
      > allow
      > > a
      > > > > > large
      > > > > > > > > > enough zone of below freezing temps in the upper
      > clouds
      > > > to
      > > > > > > > produce
      > > > > > > > > > the electical charge separation. The result is
      > heavier
      > > > > > rainfall
      > > > > > > > but
      > > > > > > > > > less lightning discharges.
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > Fred
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart"
      > <mike@u...>
      > > > > wrote:
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx
      > > <no_reply@y...>
      > > > > > wrote:
      > > > > > > > > > > > <<"is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the
      > > > > currents
      > > > > > > > > involved
      > > > > > > > > > > are
      > > > > > > > > > > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the
      > > context
      > > > of
      > > > > > the
      > > > > > > > > > earth's
      > > > > > > > > > > > EMF.">>
      > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > Current = Voltage/Impedence which implies that
      > > > > impedance
      > > > > > is
      > > > > > > > =
      > > > > > > > > or
      > > > > > > > > > > > similar to resistance?
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > Yes it is. It INCLUDES resistance. Capacitance.
      > > > > > Inductance.
      > > > > > > > > > Hence,
      > > > > > > > > > > SSTs is part of its measure.
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure what you mean by "NOT just the
      > > earth's
      > > > > EMF
      > > > > > > but
      > > > > > > > > > > currents
      > > > > > > > > > > > in the context of earth's EMF's???
      > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > As you know, I have put up this link to an
      abstract
      > > > about
      > > > > > > > > > measurable
      > > > > > > > > > > induction by ocean currents:
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > >
      http://www.gfdl.gov/~gth/netscape/1992/dbs9201.html
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > BUT, this is merely what ocean currents are like
      in
      > > the
      > > > > > > > context
      > > > > > > > > of
      > > > > > > > > > > the earth's EMF and ignores the "noise" of other
      > > EMFs.
      > > > > > What
      > > > > > > I
      > > > > > > > am
      > > > > > > > > > > saying is that when a strike occurs this itself
      has
      > > an
      > > > > EMF
      > > > > > in
      > > > > > > > > that
      > > > > > > > > > > locality and for that short period, with itself
      is
      > > > > > ORGANIZED
      > > > > > > > in
      > > > > > > > > the
      > > > > > > > > > > context of the earth's EMF. Hence, direction of
      > > > current
      > > > > > for
      > > > > > > > > these
      > > > > > > > > > > outliners or noise is going to be more
      significant
      > > > > because
      > > > > > we
      > > > > > > > are
      > > > > > > > > > > dealing with larger EMFs. Just by itself, the
      > > earth's
      > > > > EMF
      > > > > > is
      > > > > > > > > > fairly
      > > > > > > > > > > small, so the induction off of it is likewise
      > small.
      > > > But
      > > > > > in
      > > > > > > > the
      > > > > > > > > > > context of upper atmospheric EMFs then the
      > direction
      > > of
      > > > > > ocean
      > > > > > > > > > > currents start to matter for their inductive
      > > properties
      > > > > > > > depending
      > > > > > > > > > on
      > > > > > > > > > > their direction. THEN, this induction sums to be
      > > > > > significant
      > > > > > > > the
      > > > > > > > > > > inductance subpart of impedence. Hence, when a
      > Doran
      > > > > wave
      > > > > > > > goes
      > > > > > > > > > > through the pulse of ions is met with a varying
      EMF
      > > > > > condition!
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > In this context here is from TWC where a poster
      was
      > > > > > > commenting
      > > > > > > > on
      > > > > > > > > > why
      > > > > > > > > > > in the N. Atlantic TS development won't go toward
      > the
      > > > > > equator
      > > > > > > > and
      > > > > > > > > > my
      > > > > > > > > > > response:
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > ". . . then it's the ITCZ position that is
      limiting
      > > > > > > > development.
      > > > > > > > > > NOT
      > > > > > > > > > > Coriolois. Coriolois is exactly equal at the same
      > > > > latitudes
      > > > > > > > all
      > > > > > > > > > over
      > > > > > > > > > > the world, 365 days a year. If it was Coriolois
      > > > limiting
      > > > > > > > > > development
      > > > > > > > > > > in the CV region in the North Atlantic, it
      > > > > > wouldn't "Change"
      > > > > > > > > during
      > > > > > > > > > > the year."
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > "What makes the North Atlantic unusual is the
      > > > dependence
      > > > > of
      > > > > > > > > > formation
      > > > > > > > > > > of storms on the African Easterly Jet (AEJ); it
      > > simply
      > > > > > never
      > > > > > > > gets
      > > > > > > > > > > that far south to spit out a perturbation that
      far
      > > > south."
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > My response:
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > YES coriolis is important, but not for the
      reasons
      > so
      > > > far
      > > > > > > > stated.
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical
      systems
      > > are
      > > > > > > > > electrical.
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > Doran waves are critical to this EMF dynamic, and
      > > that
      > > > > > means
      > > > > > > > dry
      > > > > > > > > > > strips in the warm, tropical waters. This is
      where
      > > the
      > > > > > > counter
      > > > > > > > > > blows.
      > > > > > > > > > > Or dulldrums at worst. This makes for good fair
      > > weather
      > > > > > > > voltages
      > > > > > > > > > > positive 250 volts to ground. Induction, IOW,
      > offers
      > > > > > nothing
      > > > > > > > more
      > > > > > > > > > to
      > > > > > > > > > > impedance.
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > If you have very warm waters and induction from
      > west
      > > to
      > > > > > east
      > > > > > > > > these
      > > > > > > > > > > waters will really be good proton catchers. That
      > > leaves
      > > > > > > > electrons
      > > > > > > > > > in
      > > > > > > > > > > the ionosphere for the ITCZ. Or Doran waves.
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > Further, coriolis will help define the inner EMF
      > > > dynamic
      > > > > of
      > > > > > > > the
      > > > > > > > > TS
      > > > > > > > > > > itself.
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > Finally, landfalling brings about EMF questions
      of
      > > EMF
      > > > > > > > potentials
      > > > > > > > > > > between land and ocean and monsoons are their own
      > EMF
      > > > > > > > dynamics,
      > > > > > > > > > which
      > > > > > > > > > > can overcome the gyres/counter EMFs dynamics.
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > Understand we are talking about HUGE IR values
      > under
      > > > > > cirrus.
      > > > > > > > No
      > > > > > > > > > EMF,
      > > > > > > > > > > no cirrus, no warm core lows.
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > +++++
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > I would additionally add that the jet stream is
      > going
      > > > to
      > > > > > > cause
      > > > > > > > > EMF
      > > > > > > > > > > instability as well as air pressure instability,
      > and
      > > > that
      > > > > > EMF
      > > > > > > > > > > instability is more why storms occur along the
      > jets,
      > > as
      > > > > dry
      > > > > > > > > > > lines/patches/strips meeting areas of
      conductivity
      > > > means
      > > > > > that
      > > > > > > > > youll
      > > > > > > > > > > have areas where cirrus are enhanced toward the
      > > > > ionosphere
      > > > > > in
      > > > > > > > a
      > > > > > > > > > VERY
      > > > > > > > > > > strong manner and there won't be lack of negitive
      > > > charges
      > > > > > in
      > > > > > > > the
      > > > > > > > > > > ionosphere as there is so much positive to ground
      > > > > voltages
      > > > > > > all
      > > > > > > > > > around
      > > > > > > > > > > the place of instability. This means that you
      will
      > > have
      > > > > IR
      > > > > > > > values
      > > > > > > > > > > under the cirrus that are very high and nearby
      air
      > > that
      > > > > > > > doesn't
      > > > > > > > > > > retain any heat and this spells for strong
      > exchanges
      > > of
      > > > > > > energy.
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > This dynamic, from an EMF standpoint, differs
      from
      > > the
      > > > > > > > tropical
      > > > > > > > > > > storm, which has the negitive charges above the
      > warm
      > > > core
      > > > > > > low,
      > > > > > > > > with
      > > > > > > > > > > positive charges above the cirrus, so positive
      that
      > > the
      > > > > > upper
      > > > > > > > > > clouds
      > > > > > > > > > > can't ever reach the potential differences by
      > > > themselves
      > > > > > > being
      > > > > > > > > more
      > > > > > > > > > > positive yet, to discharge that difference with
      > > sprites
      > > > > and
      > > > > > > > > elves,
      > > > > > > > > > > and hence they to move upwards, enhanced by the
      > > > positive
      > > > > > > > charges
      > > > > > > > > > > around the eye. Near the eye it is interesting
      > that
      > > > > strike
      > > > > > > > > > activity
      > > > > > > > > > > is rare. That is because the upper clouds and
      > > > ionosphere
      > > > > > is
      > > > > > > > so
      > > > > > > > > > > positively charged that it is difficult to take
      > more
      > > > > > > electrons
      > > > > > > > > > away,
      > > > > > > > > > > even from the lower clouds toward a positively
      > > charged
      > > > > > ocean
      > > > > > > > > > surface.
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > The ocean itself tends toward nuetral and basic
      pH,
      > > > btw.
      > > > > > > > Land,
      > > > > > > > > > otoh,
      > > > > > > > > > > will have a more acidic pH and more protons there
      > for
      > > a
      > > > > > > moving
      > > > > > > > > > front
      > > > > > > > > > > to move up to the high clouds from the ground.
      The
      > > > > > > insulative
      > > > > > > > > > > properties of hydrates and the pH of the oceans,
      of
      > > > > course,
      > > > > > > is
      > > > > > > > > all
      > > > > > > > > > > biologically connected, so one could see how
      waves
      > > > coming
      > > > > > off
      > > > > > > > of
      > > > > > > > > W.
      > > > > > > > > > > Africa that mean biologically active as opposed
      to
      > > not
      > > > > > active
      > > > > > > > > could
      > > > > > > > > > > die or not, become tropical or not, depending on
      > > those
      > > > > > > > conditions.
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > I first have to say I tend to get lost when it
      > > comes
      > > > to
      > > > > > > > > > > electricity.
      > > > > > > > > > > > Are you then saying that given the earth's
      > magnetic
      > > > > > field,
      > > > > > > > when
      > > > > > > > > > the
      > > > > > > > > > > > ocean currents move perpendicular across it
      east-
      > > > west)
      > > > > > this
      > > > > > > > > will
      > > > > > > > > > > > create an electrical current. The voltage of
      this
      > > > > > > > electricial
      > > > > > > > > > > current
      > > > > > > > > > > > would then be equal to electrical current times
      > the
      > > > > > > > Impedence
      > > > > > > > > > > > (resistance)??
      > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > Fred
      > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart"
      > > > <mike@u...>
      > > > > > > wrote:
      > > > > > > > > > > > > is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the
      > > > > currents
      > > > > > > > > involved
      > > > > > > > > > > are
      > > > > > > > > > > > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the
      > > > context
      > > > > of
      > > > > > > > the
      > > > > > > > > > > earth's
      > > > > > > > > > > > > EMF.
      > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > There is a great example right now in the
      > Pacific
      > > > as
      > > > > > the
      > > > > > > > SOI
      > > > > > > > > is
      > > > > > > > > > > > near
      > > > > > > > > > > > > zero and pressures are VERY high in the
      > > equatorial
      > > > > > > > regions.
      > > > > > > > > > That
      > > > > > > > > > > > > means FAIR WEATHER voltages positive to
      ground
      > > and
      > > > > huge
      > > > > > > > Doran
      > > > > > > > > > > > waves.
      > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, guess what? There are FOUR tropical
      > > features
      > > > > in
      > > > > > > the
      > > > > > > > > > > Pacific--
      > > > > > > > > > > > > two in the E. Pac and two in the W. Pac!
      > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > I also checked the TOA data and there remains
      a
      > > > > > windless
      > > > > > > > line
      > > > > > > > > > mid
      > > > > > > > > > > > > range.
      > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > Another interesting feature is that with the
      > > latest
      > > > > > SSTs
      > > > > > > > the
      > > > > > > > > La
      > > > > > > > > > > > Nina
      > > > > > > > > > > > > 1, 2 continues to grow. Further, in the N.
      > > Pacific
      > > > > the
      > > > > > > > > waters
      > > > > > > > > > > > there
      > > > > > > > > > > > > are warm anomaly in the E. Pac where the
      canes
      > > > start
      > > > > > and
      > > > > > > > that
      > > > > > > > > > is
      > > > > > > > > > > > why
      > > > > > > > > > > > > those E. Pac storms are forming, then cooling
      > the
      > > > > SSTs
      > > > > > > > that
      > > > > > > > > > gyre
      > > > > > > > > > > > > around and you have a future with cold
      > anomalies
      > > > even
      > > > > > in
      > > > > > > > 3, 4
      > > > > > > > > > due
      > > > > > > > > > > > to
      > > > > > > > > > > > > this. YET, in the S. Pacific in the same
      > region,
      > > > > just
      > > > > > > > south,
      > > > > > > > > > > SSTS
      > > > > > > > > > > > > are initinally cold gyring in from the
      Southern
      > > > > Oceans
      > > > > > > and
      > > > > > > > > then
      > > > > > > > > > > the
      > > > > > > > > > > > > eddy gets warm anomally in the eddy coming
      back
      > > > > because
      > > > > > > > cold
      > > > > > > > > > > means
      > > > > > > > > > > > > less impeadance coming back for cirrus. This
      > is
      > > > > > CLEARLY
      > > > > > > > > > > reflected
      > > > > > > > > > > > in
      > > > > > > > > > > > > the SST anomalies:
      > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > http://psbsgi1.nesdis.noaa.gov:8080/PSB/EPS/SST/climo.html
      > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > Another feature to see is the cold anomalies
      in
      > > the
      > > > > > > > > Carribean.
      > > > > > > > > > > > That
      > > > > > > > > > > > > is because if you think about it, as it is
      July
      > > > that
      > > > > is
      > > > > > > > the
      > > > > > > > > > same
      > > > > > > > > > > as
      > > > > > > > > > > > > January for the N. Hemisphere. For the semi
      > > > tropical
      > > > > > > > regions
      > > > > > > > > > > that
      > > > > > > > > > > > > means early spring. Now, if there are DAMS
      now
      > > on
      > > > > the
      > > > > > > > > Orinoco
      > > > > > > > > > as
      > > > > > > > > > > > the
      > > > > > > > > > > > > winter snows in the mountains start to melt
      and
      > > the
      > > > > > > spring
      > > > > > > > > > rains
      > > > > > > > > > > > > come, and dams capture those early flows,
      > > hydrology
      > > > > is
      > > > > > > > > plugged,
      > > > > > > > > > > > guess
      > > > > > > > > > > > > what? The Carribean becomes Gaia unhealthy.
      > EMF
      > > > > > > > impeadance
      > > > > > > > > is
      > > > > > > > > > > > > reduced there from the biological
      conditions.
      > > This
      > > > > is
      > > > > > > > true
      > > > > > > > > > > whether
      > > > > > > > > > > > > we are talking about hydrate fields near the
      > > > Orinoco
      > > > > or
      > > > > > > pH
      > > > > > > > > > > levels.
      > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, check out the SST anomalies there!
      Cold!
      > > > This
      > > > > is
      > > > > > > > how
      > > > > > > > > the
      > > > > > > > > > > > > season shifts, my friends.
      > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > We have both a La Nina making mechanism in
      the
      > E.
      > > > Pac
      > > > > > and
      > > > > > > > a
      > > > > > > > > > delay
      > > > > > > > > > > > in
      > > > > > > > > > > > > hydrology in the Carribean working full on
      > right
      > > > now,
      > > > > > > > making
      > > > > > > > > > > > > conditions EMF poor for tropical storms.
      OTOH,
      > > > waves
      > > > > > > > coming
      > > > > > > > > > out
      > > > > > > > > > > of
      > > > > > > > > > > > > Africa are starting to feel the BENEFIT of
      > delays
      > > > of
      > > > > > > > > hydrology
      > > > > > > > > > > from
      > > > > > > > > > > > > West Africa dams and hydrology changes. (I
      > > haven't
      > > > > been
      > > > > > > > able
      > > > > > > > > to
      > > > > > > > > > > > > figure out quite yet what the even MORE
      recent
      > > > > changes
      > > > > > to
      > > > > > > > the
      > > > > > > > > > > > > Amazon's hydrology means, but if you look in
      > the
      > > > > delta
      > > > > > > and
      > > > > > > > > > > > extending
      > > > > > > > > > > > > out there, there also are cold anamolies
      > > matching,
      > > > > > again,
      > > > > > > > > their
      > > > > > > > > > > > early
      > > > > > > > > > > > > spring. Africa had cold anomalies in early
      > > March,
      > > > > > > > matching
      > > > > > > > > > their
      > > > > > > > > > > > > spring.
      > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > It is later in the fall (shifting season)
      when
      > > > there
      > > > > is
      > > > > > a
      > > > > > > > > match
      > > > > > > > > > > of
      > > > > > > > > > > > > the delayed hydrology of the South American
      > > > > conditions
      > > > > > w/
      > > > > > > > the
      > > > > > > > > > > West
      > > > > > > > > > > > > African conditions that we see the season
      > > actually
      > > > > > taking
      > > > > > > > > > form.
      > > > > > > > > > > > This
      > > > > > > > > > > > > happens to corresponded to the asymetric
      > changes
      > > by
      > > > > > > > > hemisphere
      > > > > > > > > > > that
      > > > > > > > > > > > > are occurring in the Pacific, when Doran
      waves
      > > have
      > > > > > > really
      > > > > > > > > come
      > > > > > > > > > > > > strong from the E. Pac and you have that
      > > resulting
      > > > > warm
      > > > > > > > > anomaly
      > > > > > > > > > > > area
      > > > > > > > > > > > > by Panama. That is why we have, from an EMF
      > > > > > standpoint,
      > > > > > > > had
      > > > > > > > > > > Mitch,
      > > > > > > > > > > > > Kevin, Iris, Caracus 1999, Michelle, and will
      > > have
      > > > > > > another
      > > > > > > > > > Mitch
      > > > > > > > > > > > like
      > > > > > > > > > > > > storm LATER in the year.
      > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > With no SOx event from a volcano which drop
      > phase
      > > > > > change
      > > > > > > > > > > > temperatures
      > > > > > > > > > > > > of cirrus, we can also be sure that this storm
      > (s)
      > > > > will
      > > > > > > > stall
      > > > > > > > > > and
      > > > > > > > > > > > > flood.
      > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx
      > > > > <no_reply@y...>
      > > > > > > > wrote:
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > How could warmer waters mean colder SSTs???
      > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Counterintuitively, in general warmer
      > oceans
      > > > > result
      > > > > > > in
      > > > > > > > > more
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > induction both for and against cirrus,
      which
      > > > alters
      > > > > > > > SSTs,
      > > > > > > > > and
      > > > > > > > > > > in
      > > > > > > > > > > > > this
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > case,since the circumpoler around
      Antarctica
      > > > moves
      > > > > > from
      > > > > > > > > west
      > > > > > > > > > to
      > > > > > > > > > > > > east
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs"...
      > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nevermind that I still see no strong
      evidence
      > > > that
      > > > > > > > > electrical
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > currents induced by ocean currents have any
      > > > > > measurable
      > > > > > > > > effect
      > > > > > > > > > > on
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > cirrus clouds. IMHO, any currents are too
      > weak
      > > to
      > > > > be
      > > > > > > > > > > significant.
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fred
      > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart"
      > > > > > <mike@u...>
      > > > > > > > > wrote:
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.spacedaily.com/news/climate-
      > > 02y.html
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "In the Science paper, the El Nino-like
      > > > > conditions
      > > > > > > > > > correspond
      > > > > > > > > > > > to
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > the
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cold period. This is actually rather
      > > > surprising,"
      > > > > > > > Poulsen
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > said. "Most
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > climate scientists would have guessed
      that
      > > the
      > > > > cold
      > > > > > > > > periods
      > > > > > > > > > > > would
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > correspond to La Nina-like conditions.
      So,
      > it
      > > > is
      > > > > > > clear
      > > > > > > > > that
      > > > > > > > > > > we
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > don't
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > completely understand the physics that
      > > control
      > > > > the
      > > > > > > > > tropical
      > > > > > > > > > > > > climate
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > variability between warm and cold
      periods."
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Comment:
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is occurring is much like the colder
      > > > oceans,
      > > > > > > post
      > > > > > > > > Mt.
      > > > > > > > > > > > > Pinatubo
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and pre flaring cycle peak of 1997 and
      > oceans
      > > > of
      > > > > > now.
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Counterintuitively, in general warmer
      > oceans
      > > > > result
      > > > > > > in
      > > > > > > > > more
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > induction
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > both for and against cirrus, which alters
      > > SSTs,
      > > > > and
      > > > > > > in
      > > > > > > > > this
      > > > > > > > > > > > case,
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > since the circumpoler around Antarctica
      > moves
      > > > > from
      > > > > > > > west
      > > > > > > > > to
      > > > > > > > > > > east
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs, and
      these
      > > SSTs
      > > > > > gyre
      > > > > > > > > around
      > > > > > > > > > > and
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > create La Nina or La Nada, not El Nino.
      > OTOH,
      > > > > with
      > > > > > > > > > relatively
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > cooler
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > waters in 1997, as flaring began to occur
      > and
      > > > the
      > > > > > air
      > > > > > > > > > cleared
      > > > > > > > > > > > of
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > SOx,
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the colder oceans inducted less AGAINST
      > > cirrus
      > > > in
      > > > > > the
      > > > > > > > > > > Southern
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oceans
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and this resulted in warm SSTs, which
      gyred
      > > > > around
      > > > > > to
      > > > > > > > > give
      > > > > > > > > > us
      > > > > > > > > > > > the
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > largest El Nino in at least 500 years.
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The latest satellite data for the lower
      > > > > troposphere:
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Global trend per decade = +0.064°C,
      > (Northern
      > > > > > > > Hemisphere
      > > > > > > > > =
      > > > > > > > > > > > +0.136°
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > C,
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Southern Hemisphere = - 0.008°C.)
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Global June 2002 = + 0.2°C, (Northern
      > > > Hemisphere
      > > > > =
      > > > > > > > +0.217°
      > > > > > > > > > C,
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > Southern
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hemisphere = +0.183°C.)
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The asymetry between hemisphere is
      DIRECTLY
      > > > > related
      > > > > > > to
      > > > > > > > > what
      > > > > > > > > > > > > warming
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > oceans mean to EMFs and cirrus--in that
      the
      > > > > > Southern
      > > > > > > > > > Ocean's
      > > > > > > > > > > > > added
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > input of a current that moves so strongly
      > > from
      > > > > west
      > > > > > > to
      > > > > > > > > east
      > > > > > > > > > > > > around
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Antarctica. A warmer inducter of the
      oceans
      > > > > inducts
      > > > > > > > > better,
      > > > > > > > > > > and
      > > > > > > > > > > > > in
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this case, warmer for the northern
      > > hemisphere's
      > > > > > > oceans
      > > > > > > > > > means
      > > > > > > > > > > on
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > balance there is more induction for
      cirrus
      > > due
      > > > to
      > > > > > > > current
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > direction .
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . .
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