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Re: The huge voltages of electrons over the eye

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  • pawnfart
    ... The ITCZ--yes. What happens is that relatively speaking underneath where there WAS the convection in Western Africa, the positive charges that attracted
    Message 1 of 17 , Aug 1, 2002
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      > <<"And if so, it makes the charge on the front more what?">> You
      > lost me here - what front? Do you mean the ITCZ?

      The ITCZ--yes. What happens is that relatively speaking underneath
      where there WAS the convection in Western Africa, the positive
      charges that attracted the electron concentration, in a capacitive
      manner, are no longer there. That means these electrons
      concentrations will move (repelled by themselves, attracted to other
      positive cloud tops). In this case, they move along the ITCZ to
      reach a similar equillibrium as that which occurred over the
      convective cloud cover.

      I am not the only one interested in this theory. Check out this:

      http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/07/31/earth.rays/index.html

      Report: Cosmic rays influence climate change
      July 31, 2002 Posted: 9:26 AM EDT (1326 GMT)

      By Richard Stenger

      (CNN) -- The Earth has experienced higher surface but not atmospheric
      temperatures in recent decades. Now a climate scientist thinks he
      knows why: highly charged particles originating beyond the solar
      system.

      The inconsistencies in ground and air temperature patterns have led
      some scientists to dismiss the idea that global warming is taking
      place.

      But one New York researcher suggests the discrepancy takes place
      because of the effect of interstellar cosmic rays on cloud coverage.
      Other climate scientists have proposed a link between cosmic rays and
      clouds.

      Research professor Fangqun Yu of the State University of New York-
      Albany goes further, proposing that low and high altitude clouds
      react differently to the rays, contributing to greater thermostat
      gaps near the surface and higher in the atmosphere.

      The number of cosmic rays that strike Earth depends to some degree on
      the sun. Solar winds, which can protect the Earth from the
      interstellar rays, vary in intensity as the sun waxes and wanes in
      intensity, according to Yu.

      "A systematic change in global cloud cover will change the
      atmospheric heating profile," he said in a statement this week.

      "In other words, the cosmic ray-induced global cloud changes could be
      the long-sought mechanism connecting solar and climate variability."

      Yu said that observations of global warming this century have
      corresponded with lowered cosmic ray intensities.

      The hypothesis does not disregard man-made contributions to climate
      change. Greenhouse gases introduced by humans could affect the cosmic
      ray-cloud interactions, he said.

      In any case, Yu proposes that cosmic rays help stoke the formation of
      dense clouds in the lower atmosphere while having a little or
      negative affect on cloud cover in the upper atmosphere.

      The low clouds retain more surface energy, keeping the surrounding
      air hot, while thin high clouds reflect more sunlight into space,
      keeping the upper atmosphere cooler.

      Satellite data offer evidence consistent with the hypothesis, which
      Yu presents in the July issue of the Journal of Geophysical Research-
      Space Physics.

      +++++++

      Comments:

      What I want you to notice is the author of this research has NO EMF
      training directly--he is an atmospheric scientist. Further, and more
      importantly, he has NO BIOLOGY in his background. Most of these
      scholars are highly specialized on the edge of their kens--and the
      cross thinking just isn't there:

      http://www.albany.edu/~yfq/resume_txt.html

      EDUCATION

      1998 Ph.D., Atmospheric Sciences, University of California
      at Los Angeles
      1996 M.S., Atmospheric Sciences, University of California
      at Los Angeles
      1994 M.S., Atmospheric Physics, Institute of Atmospheric
      Physics, China
      1991 B.S., Atmospheric Sciences, Peking University, China

      PROFESSIONAL ACTIVITIES, AWARDS, HONORS

      Invited to give a review talk on the Effect of Galactic Cosmic
      Rays on Aerosol
      Nucleation, Workshop on Ion-Aerosol-Cloud Interactions, CERN,
      Geneva,
      Switzerland, April18-20, 2001.
      (http://cloud.web.cern.ch/cloud/iaci_workshop)

      Publications:

      Yu, F. and R. P. Turco, From molecular clusters to nanoparticles: The
      role of ambient ionization in tropospheric aerosol formation, J.
      Geophys. Res., 106, 4797-4814, 2001.

      ++++++++++

      My point is that the experts are starting to see the EMF, as, for
      instance B-1 and I have been documenting for over a year now, but
      what isn't occurring is the connection between this physical forcing
      and the stability of "climate" which can only come from modulation.

      Here are some additional links from the P. Sciences side of this:

      http://ae.atmos.uah.edu/AE/ams_2001b.html

      The SPECIAL workshop is entitled: "Space Weather and the Earth's
      Weather and Climate: Links between solar activity, magnetospheric
      variability, clouds, thunderstorms, and lightning." The workshop
      hosts three distinct thematic groups which are working on :

      (1) Global Atmospheric Electric Circuit

      (2) Charged Particle Fluxes, Events, and Statistics and

      (3) Sprites and Lightning.

      During the workshop, distinct introductory review lectures will be
      given and an extended poster session will be held for discussion and
      planning of future research. For more detailed information on the
      SPECIAL goals, registration forms, and recent announcements, check
      out

      http://www.atmospheric-electricity.org/newsletters/2001fall/research-
      activity.html

      http://www.sgo.fi/SPECIAL/

      http://www.atmospheric-electricity.org/newsletters/2001fall/research-
      activity.html







      >
      >
      >
      > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
      > > Okay. If a neg charge accumulates at one end of a capacitor,
      what
      > > happens to the charge on the other end?
      > >
      > > Say a wave rolls of the coast of Africa and it brings negitive
      > > charges to the ionosphere along the ITCZ. And quickly that
      charge
      > > spreads along the ITCZ all the way to South America, and in this
      > > case, over the past day or so, all the way to the E. Pac.
      > > Underneath, the charge will have a tendency to be what? And if
      so,
      > > it makes the charge on the front more what? And so over the
      > > equatorial zones where there is fair weather, what charges will
      the
      > > ionosphere there become? Doran waves move by capacitance--hence
      > > impedence is the measure of the oceans behavior . . .
      > >
      > > ++++++++++++++++++++++
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Below is a great link on dust.
      > >
      > > I think it really shows how EMFs are involved w/ the waves as the
      > dry
      > > air has your positive voltage to ground and really charges the
      dust
      > > and makes them suspend whereas the water vaper in the the air
      takes
      > > away that charge and causes the dust to drop by gravity.
      > >
      > > Where you can really see the EMF/Gaia is as that dust wave goes
      > near
      > > our Florida West Keys area and gets broken up but then sort of
      > > reforms along the Texas coast . . .
      > >
      > > The final set of frames is interesting, too, from an EMF stand
      > point.
      > > What I want everyone to notice is how when that wave comes off
      the
      > > African coast it electrifies the entire Atlantic and connects w/
      > the
      > > Pacific in a straight line. No waves, IOW, because the EMF
      contrast
      > > between the dry strip of the counter and equator and the wet area
      > is
      > > so grand. But in the process of moving like that, I suspect it
      can
      > > cause instability.
      > >
      > > The SOI right now is flat zero w/ no TS activity anywhere.
      > >
      > > Understand it is very early spring for the Southern Hemisphere
      and
      > no
      > > hydrology is going to the ocean biosphere in the Carribean to
      speak
      > > of. Typically, we would start to see some hydrology in September,
      > as
      > > someone here reminded us. BUT, with the dams, another story!
      > >
      > > With all these new sats and this new understanding of EMFs, folks
      > > here are going to get a free intellectual ride that doesn't come
      > > often in life. Strap up. It's going to be fun. When this becomes
      > more
      > > mainstream, you can tell your grand kids you were there when it
      all
      > > started.
      > >
      > >
      > > http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/tropic/real-
      > > time/wavetrak/movies/atlsal/atlsalwavejava5.html
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
      > > > Capacitors store electricity and block the flow of Direct
      > Current.
      > > I
      > > > understand it to be two electric conductors separated by a
      > > > nonconductor of electric current.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
      > > > > I totally agree that this is true--but disagree what I think
      > you
      > > > may
      > > > > be trying to say.
      > > > >
      > > > > Strikes over a TS would be like a leaking capaciter.
      > > > >
      > > > > Do you know how a capaciter works?
      > > > >
      > > > > Put it this way--what do you think the charge of the surface
      > > under
      > > > an
      > > > > eye is if the ionosphere carries a huge negitive charge?
      What
      > > kind
      > > > > of electrons will be favored on the surface? What charge
      will
      > be
      > > > > repelled and what attracted?
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
      > > > > > RE: The huge voltages of electrons over the eye:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > "Surprisingly, not much lightning occurs in the inner core
      > > > (within
      > > > > > about 100 km or 60 mi) of the tropical cyclone center. Only
      > > > around
      > > > > a
      > > > > > dozen or less cloud-to-ground strikes per hour occur around
      > the
      > > > > > eyewall of the storm...."
      > > > > >
      > > > > > http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/tcfaq/G10.html
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...>
      wrote:
      > > > > > > have been observed, Fred.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > And yes, it is a wave feature. Capacitance, for
      instance,
      > > > works
      > > > > > > between the ionosphere, which is conductive to direct
      > > currents,
      > > > > > and
      > > > > >
      > > > > > "> the oceans, which is also conductive, BUT the air is
      > > > insulative--
      > > > > > just
      > > > > > > like a capaciter--which is thus able to communicate waves
      > but
      > > > not
      > > > > > > DC. Get it?
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...>
      > wrote:
      > > > > > > > <<"LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical systems
      > are
      > > > > > > > electrical.">>
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > I am not sure what you mean here. As far as I remember,
      > > > > tropical
      > > > > > > > storms have less electrical energy (fewer lightning
      > strikes)
      > > > > than
      > > > > > > > would be expected. I understand the reason has to do
      with
      > > the
      > > > > > low
      > > > > > > > level air temps being high and that this does not allow
      a
      > > > large
      > > > > > > > enough zone of below freezing temps in the upper clouds
      > to
      > > > > > produce
      > > > > > > > the electical charge separation. The result is heavier
      > > > rainfall
      > > > > > but
      > > > > > > > less lightning discharges.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > Fred
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...>
      > > wrote:
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx
      <no_reply@y...>
      > > > wrote:
      > > > > > > > > > <<"is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the
      > > currents
      > > > > > > involved
      > > > > > > > > are
      > > > > > > > > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the
      context
      > of
      > > > the
      > > > > > > > earth's
      > > > > > > > > > EMF.">>
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > Current = Voltage/Impedence which implies that
      > > impedance
      > > > is
      > > > > > =
      > > > > > > or
      > > > > > > > > > similar to resistance?
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > Yes it is. It INCLUDES resistance. Capacitance.
      > > > Inductance.
      > > > > > > > Hence,
      > > > > > > > > SSTs is part of its measure.
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > I am not sure what you mean by "NOT just the
      earth's
      > > EMF
      > > > > but
      > > > > > > > > currents
      > > > > > > > > > in the context of earth's EMF's???
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > As you know, I have put up this link to an abstract
      > about
      > > > > > > > measurable
      > > > > > > > > induction by ocean currents:
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > http://www.gfdl.gov/~gth/netscape/1992/dbs9201.html
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > BUT, this is merely what ocean currents are like in
      the
      > > > > > context
      > > > > > > of
      > > > > > > > > the earth's EMF and ignores the "noise" of other
      EMFs.
      > > > What
      > > > > I
      > > > > > am
      > > > > > > > > saying is that when a strike occurs this itself has
      an
      > > EMF
      > > > in
      > > > > > > that
      > > > > > > > > locality and for that short period, with itself is
      > > > ORGANIZED
      > > > > > in
      > > > > > > the
      > > > > > > > > context of the earth's EMF. Hence, direction of
      > current
      > > > for
      > > > > > > these
      > > > > > > > > outliners or noise is going to be more significant
      > > because
      > > > we
      > > > > > are
      > > > > > > > > dealing with larger EMFs. Just by itself, the
      earth's
      > > EMF
      > > > is
      > > > > > > > fairly
      > > > > > > > > small, so the induction off of it is likewise small.
      > But
      > > > in
      > > > > > the
      > > > > > > > > context of upper atmospheric EMFs then the direction
      of
      > > > ocean
      > > > > > > > > currents start to matter for their inductive
      properties
      > > > > > depending
      > > > > > > > on
      > > > > > > > > their direction. THEN, this induction sums to be
      > > > significant
      > > > > > the
      > > > > > > > > inductance subpart of impedence. Hence, when a Doran
      > > wave
      > > > > > goes
      > > > > > > > > through the pulse of ions is met with a varying EMF
      > > > condition!
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > In this context here is from TWC where a poster was
      > > > > commenting
      > > > > > on
      > > > > > > > why
      > > > > > > > > in the N. Atlantic TS development won't go toward the
      > > > equator
      > > > > > and
      > > > > > > > my
      > > > > > > > > response:
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > ". . . then it's the ITCZ position that is limiting
      > > > > > development.
      > > > > > > > NOT
      > > > > > > > > Coriolois. Coriolois is exactly equal at the same
      > > latitudes
      > > > > > all
      > > > > > > > over
      > > > > > > > > the world, 365 days a year. If it was Coriolois
      > limiting
      > > > > > > > development
      > > > > > > > > in the CV region in the North Atlantic, it
      > > > wouldn't "Change"
      > > > > > > during
      > > > > > > > > the year."
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > "What makes the North Atlantic unusual is the
      > dependence
      > > of
      > > > > > > > formation
      > > > > > > > > of storms on the African Easterly Jet (AEJ); it
      simply
      > > > never
      > > > > > gets
      > > > > > > > > that far south to spit out a perturbation that far
      > south."
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > My response:
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > YES coriolis is important, but not for the reasons so
      > far
      > > > > > stated.
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical systems
      are
      > > > > > > electrical.
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > Doran waves are critical to this EMF dynamic, and
      that
      > > > means
      > > > > > dry
      > > > > > > > > strips in the warm, tropical waters. This is where
      the
      > > > > counter
      > > > > > > > blows.
      > > > > > > > > Or dulldrums at worst. This makes for good fair
      weather
      > > > > > voltages
      > > > > > > > > positive 250 volts to ground. Induction, IOW, offers
      > > > nothing
      > > > > > more
      > > > > > > > to
      > > > > > > > > impedance.
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > If you have very warm waters and induction from west
      to
      > > > east
      > > > > > > these
      > > > > > > > > waters will really be good proton catchers. That
      leaves
      > > > > > electrons
      > > > > > > > in
      > > > > > > > > the ionosphere for the ITCZ. Or Doran waves.
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > Further, coriolis will help define the inner EMF
      > dynamic
      > > of
      > > > > > the
      > > > > > > TS
      > > > > > > > > itself.
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > Finally, landfalling brings about EMF questions of
      EMF
      > > > > > potentials
      > > > > > > > > between land and ocean and monsoons are their own EMF
      > > > > > dynamics,
      > > > > > > > which
      > > > > > > > > can overcome the gyres/counter EMFs dynamics.
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > Understand we are talking about HUGE IR values under
      > > > cirrus.
      > > > > > No
      > > > > > > > EMF,
      > > > > > > > > no cirrus, no warm core lows.
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > +++++
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > I would additionally add that the jet stream is going
      > to
      > > > > cause
      > > > > > > EMF
      > > > > > > > > instability as well as air pressure instability, and
      > that
      > > > EMF
      > > > > > > > > instability is more why storms occur along the jets,
      as
      > > dry
      > > > > > > > > lines/patches/strips meeting areas of conductivity
      > means
      > > > that
      > > > > > > youll
      > > > > > > > > have areas where cirrus are enhanced toward the
      > > ionosphere
      > > > in
      > > > > > a
      > > > > > > > VERY
      > > > > > > > > strong manner and there won't be lack of negitive
      > charges
      > > > in
      > > > > > the
      > > > > > > > > ionosphere as there is so much positive to ground
      > > voltages
      > > > > all
      > > > > > > > around
      > > > > > > > > the place of instability. This means that you will
      have
      > > IR
      > > > > > values
      > > > > > > > > under the cirrus that are very high and nearby air
      that
      > > > > > doesn't
      > > > > > > > > retain any heat and this spells for strong exchanges
      of
      > > > > energy.
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > This dynamic, from an EMF standpoint, differs from
      the
      > > > > > tropical
      > > > > > > > > storm, which has the negitive charges above the warm
      > core
      > > > > low,
      > > > > > > with
      > > > > > > > > positive charges above the cirrus, so positive that
      the
      > > > upper
      > > > > > > > clouds
      > > > > > > > > can't ever reach the potential differences by
      > themselves
      > > > > being
      > > > > > > more
      > > > > > > > > positive yet, to discharge that difference with
      sprites
      > > and
      > > > > > > elves,
      > > > > > > > > and hence they to move upwards, enhanced by the
      > positive
      > > > > > charges
      > > > > > > > > around the eye. Near the eye it is interesting that
      > > strike
      > > > > > > > activity
      > > > > > > > > is rare. That is because the upper clouds and
      > ionosphere
      > > > is
      > > > > > so
      > > > > > > > > positively charged that it is difficult to take more
      > > > > electrons
      > > > > > > > away,
      > > > > > > > > even from the lower clouds toward a positively
      charged
      > > > ocean
      > > > > > > > surface.
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > The ocean itself tends toward nuetral and basic pH,
      > btw.
      > > > > > Land,
      > > > > > > > otoh,
      > > > > > > > > will have a more acidic pH and more protons there for
      a
      > > > > moving
      > > > > > > > front
      > > > > > > > > to move up to the high clouds from the ground. The
      > > > > insulative
      > > > > > > > > properties of hydrates and the pH of the oceans, of
      > > course,
      > > > > is
      > > > > > > all
      > > > > > > > > biologically connected, so one could see how waves
      > coming
      > > > off
      > > > > > of
      > > > > > > W.
      > > > > > > > > Africa that mean biologically active as opposed to
      not
      > > > active
      > > > > > > could
      > > > > > > > > die or not, become tropical or not, depending on
      those
      > > > > > conditions.
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > I first have to say I tend to get lost when it
      comes
      > to
      > > > > > > > > electricity.
      > > > > > > > > > Are you then saying that given the earth's magnetic
      > > > field,
      > > > > > when
      > > > > > > > the
      > > > > > > > > > ocean currents move perpendicular across it east-
      > west)
      > > > this
      > > > > > > will
      > > > > > > > > > create an electrical current. The voltage of this
      > > > > > electricial
      > > > > > > > > current
      > > > > > > > > > would then be equal to electrical current times the
      > > > > > Impedence
      > > > > > > > > > (resistance)??
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > Fred
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart"
      > <mike@u...>
      > > > > wrote:
      > > > > > > > > > > is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the
      > > currents
      > > > > > > involved
      > > > > > > > > are
      > > > > > > > > > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the
      > context
      > > of
      > > > > > the
      > > > > > > > > earth's
      > > > > > > > > > > EMF.
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > There is a great example right now in the Pacific
      > as
      > > > the
      > > > > > SOI
      > > > > > > is
      > > > > > > > > > near
      > > > > > > > > > > zero and pressures are VERY high in the
      equatorial
      > > > > > regions.
      > > > > > > > That
      > > > > > > > > > > means FAIR WEATHER voltages positive to ground
      and
      > > huge
      > > > > > Doran
      > > > > > > > > > waves.
      > > > > > > > > > > Well, guess what? There are FOUR tropical
      features
      > > in
      > > > > the
      > > > > > > > > Pacific--
      > > > > > > > > > > two in the E. Pac and two in the W. Pac!
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > I also checked the TOA data and there remains a
      > > > windless
      > > > > > line
      > > > > > > > mid
      > > > > > > > > > > range.
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > Another interesting feature is that with the
      latest
      > > > SSTs
      > > > > > the
      > > > > > > La
      > > > > > > > > > Nina
      > > > > > > > > > > 1, 2 continues to grow. Further, in the N.
      Pacific
      > > the
      > > > > > > waters
      > > > > > > > > > there
      > > > > > > > > > > are warm anomaly in the E. Pac where the canes
      > start
      > > > and
      > > > > > that
      > > > > > > > is
      > > > > > > > > > why
      > > > > > > > > > > those E. Pac storms are forming, then cooling the
      > > SSTs
      > > > > > that
      > > > > > > > gyre
      > > > > > > > > > > around and you have a future with cold anomalies
      > even
      > > > in
      > > > > > 3, 4
      > > > > > > > due
      > > > > > > > > > to
      > > > > > > > > > > this. YET, in the S. Pacific in the same region,
      > > just
      > > > > > south,
      > > > > > > > > SSTS
      > > > > > > > > > > are initinally cold gyring in from the Southern
      > > Oceans
      > > > > and
      > > > > > > then
      > > > > > > > > the
      > > > > > > > > > > eddy gets warm anomally in the eddy coming back
      > > because
      > > > > > cold
      > > > > > > > > means
      > > > > > > > > > > less impeadance coming back for cirrus. This is
      > > > CLEARLY
      > > > > > > > > reflected
      > > > > > > > > > in
      > > > > > > > > > > the SST anomalies:
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > http://psbsgi1.nesdis.noaa.gov:8080/PSB/EPS/SST/climo.html
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > Another feature to see is the cold anomalies in
      the
      > > > > > > Carribean.
      > > > > > > > > > That
      > > > > > > > > > > is because if you think about it, as it is July
      > that
      > > is
      > > > > > the
      > > > > > > > same
      > > > > > > > > as
      > > > > > > > > > > January for the N. Hemisphere. For the semi
      > tropical
      > > > > > regions
      > > > > > > > > that
      > > > > > > > > > > means early spring. Now, if there are DAMS now
      on
      > > the
      > > > > > > Orinoco
      > > > > > > > as
      > > > > > > > > > the
      > > > > > > > > > > winter snows in the mountains start to melt and
      the
      > > > > spring
      > > > > > > > rains
      > > > > > > > > > > come, and dams capture those early flows,
      hydrology
      > > is
      > > > > > > plugged,
      > > > > > > > > > guess
      > > > > > > > > > > what? The Carribean becomes Gaia unhealthy. EMF
      > > > > > impeadance
      > > > > > > is
      > > > > > > > > > > reduced there from the biological conditions.
      This
      > > is
      > > > > > true
      > > > > > > > > whether
      > > > > > > > > > > we are talking about hydrate fields near the
      > Orinoco
      > > or
      > > > > pH
      > > > > > > > > levels.
      > > > > > > > > > > Now, check out the SST anomalies there! Cold!
      > This
      > > is
      > > > > > how
      > > > > > > the
      > > > > > > > > > > season shifts, my friends.
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > We have both a La Nina making mechanism in the E.
      > Pac
      > > > and
      > > > > > a
      > > > > > > > delay
      > > > > > > > > > in
      > > > > > > > > > > hydrology in the Carribean working full on right
      > now,
      > > > > > making
      > > > > > > > > > > conditions EMF poor for tropical storms. OTOH,
      > waves
      > > > > > coming
      > > > > > > > out
      > > > > > > > > of
      > > > > > > > > > > Africa are starting to feel the BENEFIT of delays
      > of
      > > > > > > hydrology
      > > > > > > > > from
      > > > > > > > > > > West Africa dams and hydrology changes. (I
      haven't
      > > been
      > > > > > able
      > > > > > > to
      > > > > > > > > > > figure out quite yet what the even MORE recent
      > > changes
      > > > to
      > > > > > the
      > > > > > > > > > > Amazon's hydrology means, but if you look in the
      > > delta
      > > > > and
      > > > > > > > > > extending
      > > > > > > > > > > out there, there also are cold anamolies
      matching,
      > > > again,
      > > > > > > their
      > > > > > > > > > early
      > > > > > > > > > > spring. Africa had cold anomalies in early
      March,
      > > > > > matching
      > > > > > > > their
      > > > > > > > > > > spring.
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > It is later in the fall (shifting season) when
      > there
      > > is
      > > > a
      > > > > > > match
      > > > > > > > > of
      > > > > > > > > > > the delayed hydrology of the South American
      > > conditions
      > > > w/
      > > > > > the
      > > > > > > > > West
      > > > > > > > > > > African conditions that we see the season
      actually
      > > > taking
      > > > > > > > form.
      > > > > > > > > > This
      > > > > > > > > > > happens to corresponded to the asymetric changes
      by
      > > > > > > hemisphere
      > > > > > > > > that
      > > > > > > > > > > are occurring in the Pacific, when Doran waves
      have
      > > > > really
      > > > > > > come
      > > > > > > > > > > strong from the E. Pac and you have that
      resulting
      > > warm
      > > > > > > anomaly
      > > > > > > > > > area
      > > > > > > > > > > by Panama. That is why we have, from an EMF
      > > > standpoint,
      > > > > > had
      > > > > > > > > Mitch,
      > > > > > > > > > > Kevin, Iris, Caracus 1999, Michelle, and will
      have
      > > > > another
      > > > > > > > Mitch
      > > > > > > > > > like
      > > > > > > > > > > storm LATER in the year.
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > With no SOx event from a volcano which drop phase
      > > > change
      > > > > > > > > > temperatures
      > > > > > > > > > > of cirrus, we can also be sure that this storm(s)
      > > will
      > > > > > stall
      > > > > > > > and
      > > > > > > > > > > flood.
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx
      > > <no_reply@y...>
      > > > > > wrote:
      > > > > > > > > > > > How could warmer waters mean colder SSTs???
      > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > "Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans
      > > result
      > > > > in
      > > > > > > more
      > > > > > > > > > > > induction both for and against cirrus, which
      > alters
      > > > > > SSTs,
      > > > > > > and
      > > > > > > > > in
      > > > > > > > > > > this
      > > > > > > > > > > > case,since the circumpoler around Antarctica
      > moves
      > > > from
      > > > > > > west
      > > > > > > > to
      > > > > > > > > > > east
      > > > > > > > > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs"...
      > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > Nevermind that I still see no strong evidence
      > that
      > > > > > > electrical
      > > > > > > > > > > > currents induced by ocean currents have any
      > > > measurable
      > > > > > > effect
      > > > > > > > > on
      > > > > > > > > > > > cirrus clouds. IMHO, any currents are too weak
      to
      > > be
      > > > > > > > > significant.
      > > > > > > > > > > > Fred
      > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart"
      > > > <mike@u...>
      > > > > > > wrote:
      > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.spacedaily.com/news/climate-
      02y.html
      > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > "In the Science paper, the El Nino-like
      > > conditions
      > > > > > > > correspond
      > > > > > > > > > to
      > > > > > > > > > > > the
      > > > > > > > > > > > > cold period. This is actually rather
      > surprising,"
      > > > > > Poulsen
      > > > > > > > > > > > said. "Most
      > > > > > > > > > > > > climate scientists would have guessed that
      the
      > > cold
      > > > > > > periods
      > > > > > > > > > would
      > > > > > > > > > > > > correspond to La Nina-like conditions. So, it
      > is
      > > > > clear
      > > > > > > that
      > > > > > > > > we
      > > > > > > > > > > > don't
      > > > > > > > > > > > > completely understand the physics that
      control
      > > the
      > > > > > > tropical
      > > > > > > > > > > climate
      > > > > > > > > > > > > variability between warm and cold periods."
      > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > Comment:
      > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > What is occurring is much like the colder
      > oceans,
      > > > > post
      > > > > > > Mt.
      > > > > > > > > > > Pinatubo
      > > > > > > > > > > > > and pre flaring cycle peak of 1997 and oceans
      > of
      > > > now.
      > > > > > > > > > > > > Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans
      > > result
      > > > > in
      > > > > > > more
      > > > > > > > > > > > induction
      > > > > > > > > > > > > both for and against cirrus, which alters
      SSTs,
      > > and
      > > > > in
      > > > > > > this
      > > > > > > > > > case,
      > > > > > > > > > > > > since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves
      > > from
      > > > > > west
      > > > > > > to
      > > > > > > > > east
      > > > > > > > > > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs, and these
      SSTs
      > > > gyre
      > > > > > > around
      > > > > > > > > and
      > > > > > > > > > > > > create La Nina or La Nada, not El Nino. OTOH,
      > > with
      > > > > > > > relatively
      > > > > > > > > > > > cooler
      > > > > > > > > > > > > waters in 1997, as flaring began to occur and
      > the
      > > > air
      > > > > > > > cleared
      > > > > > > > > > of
      > > > > > > > > > > > SOx,
      > > > > > > > > > > > > the colder oceans inducted less AGAINST
      cirrus
      > in
      > > > the
      > > > > > > > > Southern
      > > > > > > > > > > > Oceans
      > > > > > > > > > > > > and this resulted in warm SSTs, which gyred
      > > around
      > > > to
      > > > > > > give
      > > > > > > > us
      > > > > > > > > > the
      > > > > > > > > > > > > largest El Nino in at least 500 years.
      > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > The latest satellite data for the lower
      > > troposphere:
      > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > Global trend per decade = +0.064°C, (Northern
      > > > > > Hemisphere
      > > > > > > =
      > > > > > > > > > +0.136°
      > > > > > > > > > > > C,
      > > > > > > > > > > > > Southern Hemisphere = - 0.008°C.)
      > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > Global June 2002 = + 0.2°C, (Northern
      > Hemisphere
      > > =
      > > > > > +0.217°
      > > > > > > > C,
      > > > > > > > > > > > Southern
      > > > > > > > > > > > > Hemisphere = +0.183°C.)
      > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > The asymetry between hemisphere is DIRECTLY
      > > related
      > > > > to
      > > > > > > what
      > > > > > > > > > > warming
      > > > > > > > > > > > > oceans mean to EMFs and cirrus--in that the
      > > > Southern
      > > > > > > > Ocean's
      > > > > > > > > > > added
      > > > > > > > > > > > > input of a current that moves so strongly
      from
      > > west
      > > > > to
      > > > > > > east
      > > > > > > > > > > around
      > > > > > > > > > > > > Antarctica. A warmer inducter of the oceans
      > > inducts
      > > > > > > better,
      > > > > > > > > and
      > > > > > > > > > > in
      > > > > > > > > > > > > this case, warmer for the northern
      hemisphere's
      > > > > oceans
      > > > > > > > means
      > > > > > > > > on
      > > > > > > > > > > > > balance there is more induction for cirrus
      due
      > to
      > > > > > current
      > > > > > > > > > > > direction .
      > > > > > > > > > > > > . .
    • fredwx
      You are losing me again here. You said that underneath where there WAS the convection in Western Africa, the positive charges that attracted the electron
      Message 2 of 17 , Aug 2, 2002
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        You are losing me again here.
        You said that "underneath where there WAS the convection in Western
        Africa, the positive charges that attracted the electron
        concentration, in a capacitive manner, are no longer there."

        Unerneath the convection over West Aftrica the thunderstorms will
        induce a positive charge on the ground in response to the negative
        charge in the lower portion of the clouds. The result is cloud to
        ground lightning. The stream of electrons channels downward from the
        cloud to the ground. As it nears the ground a positively charged
        channel meets it (return stroke?). What I understan you to mean is
        that after the discharges the ground and the lower cloud electical
        charges are neutralized. ????

        Then you said "That means these electrons concentrations will move
        (repelled by themselves, attracted to other positive cloud tops"

        I am lost here because I would think that the there would no longer
        be an electron concentration.

        anyway, I have said I am unsure when it comes to electricity.

        fred




        --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > > <<"And if so, it makes the charge on the front more what?">> You
        > > lost me here - what front? Do you mean the ITCZ?
        >
        > The ITCZ--yes. What happens is that relatively speaking underneath
        > where there WAS the convection in Western Africa, the positive
        > charges that attracted the electron concentration, in a capacitive
        > manner, are no longer there. That means these electrons
        > concentrations will move (repelled by themselves, attracted to
        other
        > positive cloud tops). In this case, they move along the ITCZ to
        > reach a similar equillibrium as that which occurred over the
        > convective cloud cover.
        >
        > I am not the only one interested in this theory. Check out this:
        >
        > http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/07/31/earth.rays/index.html
        >
        > Report: Cosmic rays influence climate change
        > July 31, 2002 Posted: 9:26 AM EDT (1326 GMT)
        >
        > By Richard Stenger
        >
        > (CNN) -- The Earth has experienced higher surface but not
        atmospheric
        > temperatures in recent decades. Now a climate scientist thinks he
        > knows why: highly charged particles originating beyond the solar
        > system.
        >
        > The inconsistencies in ground and air temperature patterns have led
        > some scientists to dismiss the idea that global warming is taking
        > place.
        >
        > But one New York researcher suggests the discrepancy takes place
        > because of the effect of interstellar cosmic rays on cloud
        coverage.
        > Other climate scientists have proposed a link between cosmic rays
        and
        > clouds.
        >
        > Research professor Fangqun Yu of the State University of New York-
        > Albany goes further, proposing that low and high altitude clouds
        > react differently to the rays, contributing to greater thermostat
        > gaps near the surface and higher in the atmosphere.
        >
        > The number of cosmic rays that strike Earth depends to some degree
        on
        > the sun. Solar winds, which can protect the Earth from the
        > interstellar rays, vary in intensity as the sun waxes and wanes in
        > intensity, according to Yu.
        >
        > "A systematic change in global cloud cover will change the
        > atmospheric heating profile," he said in a statement this week.
        >
        > "In other words, the cosmic ray-induced global cloud changes could
        be
        > the long-sought mechanism connecting solar and climate
        variability."
        >
        > Yu said that observations of global warming this century have
        > corresponded with lowered cosmic ray intensities.
        >
        > The hypothesis does not disregard man-made contributions to climate
        > change. Greenhouse gases introduced by humans could affect the
        cosmic
        > ray-cloud interactions, he said.
        >
        > In any case, Yu proposes that cosmic rays help stoke the formation
        of
        > dense clouds in the lower atmosphere while having a little or
        > negative affect on cloud cover in the upper atmosphere.
        >
        > The low clouds retain more surface energy, keeping the surrounding
        > air hot, while thin high clouds reflect more sunlight into space,
        > keeping the upper atmosphere cooler.
        >
        > Satellite data offer evidence consistent with the hypothesis, which
        > Yu presents in the July issue of the Journal of Geophysical
        Research-
        > Space Physics.
        >
        > +++++++
        >
        > Comments:
        >
        > What I want you to notice is the author of this research has NO EMF
        > training directly--he is an atmospheric scientist. Further, and
        more
        > importantly, he has NO BIOLOGY in his background. Most of these
        > scholars are highly specialized on the edge of their kens--and the
        > cross thinking just isn't there:
        >
        > http://www.albany.edu/~yfq/resume_txt.html
        >
        > EDUCATION
        >
        > 1998 Ph.D., Atmospheric Sciences, University of
        California
        > at Los Angeles
        > 1996 M.S., Atmospheric Sciences, University of
        California
        > at Los Angeles
        > 1994 M.S., Atmospheric Physics, Institute of
        Atmospheric
        > Physics, China
        > 1991 B.S., Atmospheric Sciences, Peking University, China
        >
        > PROFESSIONAL ACTIVITIES, AWARDS, HONORS
        >
        > Invited to give a review talk on the Effect of Galactic Cosmic
        > Rays on Aerosol
        > Nucleation, Workshop on Ion-Aerosol-Cloud Interactions, CERN,
        > Geneva,
        > Switzerland, April18-20, 2001.
        > (http://cloud.web.cern.ch/cloud/iaci_workshop)
        >
        > Publications:
        >
        > Yu, F. and R. P. Turco, From molecular clusters to nanoparticles:
        The
        > role of ambient ionization in tropospheric aerosol formation, J.
        > Geophys. Res., 106, 4797-4814, 2001.
        >
        > ++++++++++
        >
        > My point is that the experts are starting to see the EMF, as, for
        > instance B-1 and I have been documenting for over a year now, but
        > what isn't occurring is the connection between this physical
        forcing
        > and the stability of "climate" which can only come from modulation.
        >
        > Here are some additional links from the P. Sciences side of this:
        >
        > http://ae.atmos.uah.edu/AE/ams_2001b.html
        >
        > The SPECIAL workshop is entitled: "Space Weather and the Earth's
        > Weather and Climate: Links between solar activity, magnetospheric
        > variability, clouds, thunderstorms, and lightning." The workshop
        > hosts three distinct thematic groups which are working on :
        >
        > (1) Global Atmospheric Electric Circuit
        >
        > (2) Charged Particle Fluxes, Events, and Statistics and
        >
        > (3) Sprites and Lightning.
        >
        > During the workshop, distinct introductory review lectures will be
        > given and an extended poster session will be held for discussion
        and
        > planning of future research. For more detailed information on the
        > SPECIAL goals, registration forms, and recent announcements, check
        > out
        >
        > http://www.atmospheric-
        electricity.org/newsletters/2001fall/research-
        > activity.html
        >
        > http://www.sgo.fi/SPECIAL/
        >
        > http://www.atmospheric-
        electricity.org/newsletters/2001fall/research-
        > activity.html
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
        > > > Okay. If a neg charge accumulates at one end of a capacitor,
        > what
        > > > happens to the charge on the other end?
        > > >
        > > > Say a wave rolls of the coast of Africa and it brings negitive
        > > > charges to the ionosphere along the ITCZ. And quickly that
        > charge
        > > > spreads along the ITCZ all the way to South America, and in
        this
        > > > case, over the past day or so, all the way to the E. Pac.
        > > > Underneath, the charge will have a tendency to be what? And if
        > so,
        > > > it makes the charge on the front more what? And so over the
        > > > equatorial zones where there is fair weather, what charges will
        > the
        > > > ionosphere there become? Doran waves move by capacitance--
        hence
        > > > impedence is the measure of the oceans behavior . . .
        > > >
        > > > ++++++++++++++++++++++
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Below is a great link on dust.
        > > >
        > > > I think it really shows how EMFs are involved w/ the waves as
        the
        > > dry
        > > > air has your positive voltage to ground and really charges the
        > dust
        > > > and makes them suspend whereas the water vaper in the the air
        > takes
        > > > away that charge and causes the dust to drop by gravity.
        > > >
        > > > Where you can really see the EMF/Gaia is as that dust wave goes
        > > near
        > > > our Florida West Keys area and gets broken up but then sort of
        > > > reforms along the Texas coast . . .
        > > >
        > > > The final set of frames is interesting, too, from an EMF stand
        > > point.
        > > > What I want everyone to notice is how when that wave comes off
        > the
        > > > African coast it electrifies the entire Atlantic and connects
        w/
        > > the
        > > > Pacific in a straight line. No waves, IOW, because the EMF
        > contrast
        > > > between the dry strip of the counter and equator and the wet
        area
        > > is
        > > > so grand. But in the process of moving like that, I suspect it
        > can
        > > > cause instability.
        > > >
        > > > The SOI right now is flat zero w/ no TS activity anywhere.
        > > >
        > > > Understand it is very early spring for the Southern Hemisphere
        > and
        > > no
        > > > hydrology is going to the ocean biosphere in the Carribean to
        > speak
        > > > of. Typically, we would start to see some hydrology in
        September,
        > > as
        > > > someone here reminded us. BUT, with the dams, another story!
        > > >
        > > > With all these new sats and this new understanding of EMFs,
        folks
        > > > here are going to get a free intellectual ride that doesn't
        come
        > > > often in life. Strap up. It's going to be fun. When this
        becomes
        > > more
        > > > mainstream, you can tell your grand kids you were there when it
        > all
        > > > started.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/tropic/real-
        > > > time/wavetrak/movies/atlsal/atlsalwavejava5.html
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
        > > > > Capacitors store electricity and block the flow of Direct
        > > Current.
        > > > I
        > > > > understand it to be two electric conductors separated by a
        > > > > nonconductor of electric current.
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
        > > > > > I totally agree that this is true--but disagree what I
        think
        > > you
        > > > > may
        > > > > > be trying to say.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Strikes over a TS would be like a leaking capaciter.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Do you know how a capaciter works?
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Put it this way--what do you think the charge of the
        surface
        > > > under
        > > > > an
        > > > > > eye is if the ionosphere carries a huge negitive charge?
        > What
        > > > kind
        > > > > > of electrons will be favored on the surface? What charge
        > will
        > > be
        > > > > > repelled and what attracted?
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...>
        wrote:
        > > > > > > RE: The huge voltages of electrons over the eye:
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > "Surprisingly, not much lightning occurs in the inner
        core
        > > > > (within
        > > > > > > about 100 km or 60 mi) of the tropical cyclone center.
        Only
        > > > > around
        > > > > > a
        > > > > > > dozen or less cloud-to-ground strikes per hour occur
        around
        > > the
        > > > > > > eyewall of the storm...."
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/tcfaq/G10.html
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...>
        > wrote:
        > > > > > > > have been observed, Fred.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > And yes, it is a wave feature. Capacitance, for
        > instance,
        > > > > works
        > > > > > > > between the ionosphere, which is conductive to direct
        > > > currents,
        > > > > > > and
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > "> the oceans, which is also conductive, BUT the air is
        > > > > insulative--
        > > > > > > just
        > > > > > > > like a capaciter--which is thus able to communicate
        waves
        > > but
        > > > > not
        > > > > > > > DC. Get it?
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...>
        > > wrote:
        > > > > > > > > <<"LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical
        systems
        > > are
        > > > > > > > > electrical.">>
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > I am not sure what you mean here. As far as I
        remember,
        > > > > > tropical
        > > > > > > > > storms have less electrical energy (fewer lightning
        > > strikes)
        > > > > > than
        > > > > > > > > would be expected. I understand the reason has to do
        > with
        > > > the
        > > > > > > low
        > > > > > > > > level air temps being high and that this does not
        allow
        > a
        > > > > large
        > > > > > > > > enough zone of below freezing temps in the upper
        clouds
        > > to
        > > > > > > produce
        > > > > > > > > the electical charge separation. The result is
        heavier
        > > > > rainfall
        > > > > > > but
        > > > > > > > > less lightning discharges.
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > Fred
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart"
        <mike@u...>
        > > > wrote:
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx
        > <no_reply@y...>
        > > > > wrote:
        > > > > > > > > > > <<"is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the
        > > > currents
        > > > > > > > involved
        > > > > > > > > > are
        > > > > > > > > > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the
        > context
        > > of
        > > > > the
        > > > > > > > > earth's
        > > > > > > > > > > EMF.">>
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > Current = Voltage/Impedence which implies that
        > > > impedance
        > > > > is
        > > > > > > =
        > > > > > > > or
        > > > > > > > > > > similar to resistance?
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > Yes it is. It INCLUDES resistance. Capacitance.
        > > > > Inductance.
        > > > > > > > > Hence,
        > > > > > > > > > SSTs is part of its measure.
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure what you mean by "NOT just the
        > earth's
        > > > EMF
        > > > > > but
        > > > > > > > > > currents
        > > > > > > > > > > in the context of earth's EMF's???
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > As you know, I have put up this link to an abstract
        > > about
        > > > > > > > > measurable
        > > > > > > > > > induction by ocean currents:
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > http://www.gfdl.gov/~gth/netscape/1992/dbs9201.html
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > BUT, this is merely what ocean currents are like in
        > the
        > > > > > > context
        > > > > > > > of
        > > > > > > > > > the earth's EMF and ignores the "noise" of other
        > EMFs.
        > > > > What
        > > > > > I
        > > > > > > am
        > > > > > > > > > saying is that when a strike occurs this itself has
        > an
        > > > EMF
        > > > > in
        > > > > > > > that
        > > > > > > > > > locality and for that short period, with itself is
        > > > > ORGANIZED
        > > > > > > in
        > > > > > > > the
        > > > > > > > > > context of the earth's EMF. Hence, direction of
        > > current
        > > > > for
        > > > > > > > these
        > > > > > > > > > outliners or noise is going to be more significant
        > > > because
        > > > > we
        > > > > > > are
        > > > > > > > > > dealing with larger EMFs. Just by itself, the
        > earth's
        > > > EMF
        > > > > is
        > > > > > > > > fairly
        > > > > > > > > > small, so the induction off of it is likewise
        small.
        > > But
        > > > > in
        > > > > > > the
        > > > > > > > > > context of upper atmospheric EMFs then the
        direction
        > of
        > > > > ocean
        > > > > > > > > > currents start to matter for their inductive
        > properties
        > > > > > > depending
        > > > > > > > > on
        > > > > > > > > > their direction. THEN, this induction sums to be
        > > > > significant
        > > > > > > the
        > > > > > > > > > inductance subpart of impedence. Hence, when a
        Doran
        > > > wave
        > > > > > > goes
        > > > > > > > > > through the pulse of ions is met with a varying EMF
        > > > > condition!
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > In this context here is from TWC where a poster was
        > > > > > commenting
        > > > > > > on
        > > > > > > > > why
        > > > > > > > > > in the N. Atlantic TS development won't go toward
        the
        > > > > equator
        > > > > > > and
        > > > > > > > > my
        > > > > > > > > > response:
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > ". . . then it's the ITCZ position that is limiting
        > > > > > > development.
        > > > > > > > > NOT
        > > > > > > > > > Coriolois. Coriolois is exactly equal at the same
        > > > latitudes
        > > > > > > all
        > > > > > > > > over
        > > > > > > > > > the world, 365 days a year. If it was Coriolois
        > > limiting
        > > > > > > > > development
        > > > > > > > > > in the CV region in the North Atlantic, it
        > > > > wouldn't "Change"
        > > > > > > > during
        > > > > > > > > > the year."
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > "What makes the North Atlantic unusual is the
        > > dependence
        > > > of
        > > > > > > > > formation
        > > > > > > > > > of storms on the African Easterly Jet (AEJ); it
        > simply
        > > > > never
        > > > > > > gets
        > > > > > > > > > that far south to spit out a perturbation that far
        > > south."
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > My response:
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > YES coriolis is important, but not for the reasons
        so
        > > far
        > > > > > > stated.
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical systems
        > are
        > > > > > > > electrical.
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > Doran waves are critical to this EMF dynamic, and
        > that
        > > > > means
        > > > > > > dry
        > > > > > > > > > strips in the warm, tropical waters. This is where
        > the
        > > > > > counter
        > > > > > > > > blows.
        > > > > > > > > > Or dulldrums at worst. This makes for good fair
        > weather
        > > > > > > voltages
        > > > > > > > > > positive 250 volts to ground. Induction, IOW,
        offers
        > > > > nothing
        > > > > > > more
        > > > > > > > > to
        > > > > > > > > > impedance.
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > If you have very warm waters and induction from
        west
        > to
        > > > > east
        > > > > > > > these
        > > > > > > > > > waters will really be good proton catchers. That
        > leaves
        > > > > > > electrons
        > > > > > > > > in
        > > > > > > > > > the ionosphere for the ITCZ. Or Doran waves.
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > Further, coriolis will help define the inner EMF
        > > dynamic
        > > > of
        > > > > > > the
        > > > > > > > TS
        > > > > > > > > > itself.
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > Finally, landfalling brings about EMF questions of
        > EMF
        > > > > > > potentials
        > > > > > > > > > between land and ocean and monsoons are their own
        EMF
        > > > > > > dynamics,
        > > > > > > > > which
        > > > > > > > > > can overcome the gyres/counter EMFs dynamics.
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > Understand we are talking about HUGE IR values
        under
        > > > > cirrus.
        > > > > > > No
        > > > > > > > > EMF,
        > > > > > > > > > no cirrus, no warm core lows.
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > +++++
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > I would additionally add that the jet stream is
        going
        > > to
        > > > > > cause
        > > > > > > > EMF
        > > > > > > > > > instability as well as air pressure instability,
        and
        > > that
        > > > > EMF
        > > > > > > > > > instability is more why storms occur along the
        jets,
        > as
        > > > dry
        > > > > > > > > > lines/patches/strips meeting areas of conductivity
        > > means
        > > > > that
        > > > > > > > youll
        > > > > > > > > > have areas where cirrus are enhanced toward the
        > > > ionosphere
        > > > > in
        > > > > > > a
        > > > > > > > > VERY
        > > > > > > > > > strong manner and there won't be lack of negitive
        > > charges
        > > > > in
        > > > > > > the
        > > > > > > > > > ionosphere as there is so much positive to ground
        > > > voltages
        > > > > > all
        > > > > > > > > around
        > > > > > > > > > the place of instability. This means that you will
        > have
        > > > IR
        > > > > > > values
        > > > > > > > > > under the cirrus that are very high and nearby air
        > that
        > > > > > > doesn't
        > > > > > > > > > retain any heat and this spells for strong
        exchanges
        > of
        > > > > > energy.
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > This dynamic, from an EMF standpoint, differs from
        > the
        > > > > > > tropical
        > > > > > > > > > storm, which has the negitive charges above the
        warm
        > > core
        > > > > > low,
        > > > > > > > with
        > > > > > > > > > positive charges above the cirrus, so positive that
        > the
        > > > > upper
        > > > > > > > > clouds
        > > > > > > > > > can't ever reach the potential differences by
        > > themselves
        > > > > > being
        > > > > > > > more
        > > > > > > > > > positive yet, to discharge that difference with
        > sprites
        > > > and
        > > > > > > > elves,
        > > > > > > > > > and hence they to move upwards, enhanced by the
        > > positive
        > > > > > > charges
        > > > > > > > > > around the eye. Near the eye it is interesting
        that
        > > > strike
        > > > > > > > > activity
        > > > > > > > > > is rare. That is because the upper clouds and
        > > ionosphere
        > > > > is
        > > > > > > so
        > > > > > > > > > positively charged that it is difficult to take
        more
        > > > > > electrons
        > > > > > > > > away,
        > > > > > > > > > even from the lower clouds toward a positively
        > charged
        > > > > ocean
        > > > > > > > > surface.
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > The ocean itself tends toward nuetral and basic pH,
        > > btw.
        > > > > > > Land,
        > > > > > > > > otoh,
        > > > > > > > > > will have a more acidic pH and more protons there
        for
        > a
        > > > > > moving
        > > > > > > > > front
        > > > > > > > > > to move up to the high clouds from the ground. The
        > > > > > insulative
        > > > > > > > > > properties of hydrates and the pH of the oceans, of
        > > > course,
        > > > > > is
        > > > > > > > all
        > > > > > > > > > biologically connected, so one could see how waves
        > > coming
        > > > > off
        > > > > > > of
        > > > > > > > W.
        > > > > > > > > > Africa that mean biologically active as opposed to
        > not
        > > > > active
        > > > > > > > could
        > > > > > > > > > die or not, become tropical or not, depending on
        > those
        > > > > > > conditions.
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > I first have to say I tend to get lost when it
        > comes
        > > to
        > > > > > > > > > electricity.
        > > > > > > > > > > Are you then saying that given the earth's
        magnetic
        > > > > field,
        > > > > > > when
        > > > > > > > > the
        > > > > > > > > > > ocean currents move perpendicular across it east-
        > > west)
        > > > > this
        > > > > > > > will
        > > > > > > > > > > create an electrical current. The voltage of this
        > > > > > > electricial
        > > > > > > > > > current
        > > > > > > > > > > would then be equal to electrical current times
        the
        > > > > > > Impedence
        > > > > > > > > > > (resistance)??
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > Fred
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart"
        > > <mike@u...>
        > > > > > wrote:
        > > > > > > > > > > > is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the
        > > > currents
        > > > > > > > involved
        > > > > > > > > > are
        > > > > > > > > > > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the
        > > context
        > > > of
        > > > > > > the
        > > > > > > > > > earth's
        > > > > > > > > > > > EMF.
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > There is a great example right now in the
        Pacific
        > > as
        > > > > the
        > > > > > > SOI
        > > > > > > > is
        > > > > > > > > > > near
        > > > > > > > > > > > zero and pressures are VERY high in the
        > equatorial
        > > > > > > regions.
        > > > > > > > > That
        > > > > > > > > > > > means FAIR WEATHER voltages positive to ground
        > and
        > > > huge
        > > > > > > Doran
        > > > > > > > > > > waves.
        > > > > > > > > > > > Well, guess what? There are FOUR tropical
        > features
        > > > in
        > > > > > the
        > > > > > > > > > Pacific--
        > > > > > > > > > > > two in the E. Pac and two in the W. Pac!
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > I also checked the TOA data and there remains a
        > > > > windless
        > > > > > > line
        > > > > > > > > mid
        > > > > > > > > > > > range.
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > Another interesting feature is that with the
        > latest
        > > > > SSTs
        > > > > > > the
        > > > > > > > La
        > > > > > > > > > > Nina
        > > > > > > > > > > > 1, 2 continues to grow. Further, in the N.
        > Pacific
        > > > the
        > > > > > > > waters
        > > > > > > > > > > there
        > > > > > > > > > > > are warm anomaly in the E. Pac where the canes
        > > start
        > > > > and
        > > > > > > that
        > > > > > > > > is
        > > > > > > > > > > why
        > > > > > > > > > > > those E. Pac storms are forming, then cooling
        the
        > > > SSTs
        > > > > > > that
        > > > > > > > > gyre
        > > > > > > > > > > > around and you have a future with cold
        anomalies
        > > even
        > > > > in
        > > > > > > 3, 4
        > > > > > > > > due
        > > > > > > > > > > to
        > > > > > > > > > > > this. YET, in the S. Pacific in the same
        region,
        > > > just
        > > > > > > south,
        > > > > > > > > > SSTS
        > > > > > > > > > > > are initinally cold gyring in from the Southern
        > > > Oceans
        > > > > > and
        > > > > > > > then
        > > > > > > > > > the
        > > > > > > > > > > > eddy gets warm anomally in the eddy coming back
        > > > because
        > > > > > > cold
        > > > > > > > > > means
        > > > > > > > > > > > less impeadance coming back for cirrus. This
        is
        > > > > CLEARLY
        > > > > > > > > > reflected
        > > > > > > > > > > in
        > > > > > > > > > > > the SST anomalies:
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > http://psbsgi1.nesdis.noaa.gov:8080/PSB/EPS/SST/climo.html
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > Another feature to see is the cold anomalies in
        > the
        > > > > > > > Carribean.
        > > > > > > > > > > That
        > > > > > > > > > > > is because if you think about it, as it is July
        > > that
        > > > is
        > > > > > > the
        > > > > > > > > same
        > > > > > > > > > as
        > > > > > > > > > > > January for the N. Hemisphere. For the semi
        > > tropical
        > > > > > > regions
        > > > > > > > > > that
        > > > > > > > > > > > means early spring. Now, if there are DAMS now
        > on
        > > > the
        > > > > > > > Orinoco
        > > > > > > > > as
        > > > > > > > > > > the
        > > > > > > > > > > > winter snows in the mountains start to melt and
        > the
        > > > > > spring
        > > > > > > > > rains
        > > > > > > > > > > > come, and dams capture those early flows,
        > hydrology
        > > > is
        > > > > > > > plugged,
        > > > > > > > > > > guess
        > > > > > > > > > > > what? The Carribean becomes Gaia unhealthy.
        EMF
        > > > > > > impeadance
        > > > > > > > is
        > > > > > > > > > > > reduced there from the biological conditions.
        > This
        > > > is
        > > > > > > true
        > > > > > > > > > whether
        > > > > > > > > > > > we are talking about hydrate fields near the
        > > Orinoco
        > > > or
        > > > > > pH
        > > > > > > > > > levels.
        > > > > > > > > > > > Now, check out the SST anomalies there! Cold!
        > > This
        > > > is
        > > > > > > how
        > > > > > > > the
        > > > > > > > > > > > season shifts, my friends.
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > We have both a La Nina making mechanism in the
        E.
        > > Pac
        > > > > and
        > > > > > > a
        > > > > > > > > delay
        > > > > > > > > > > in
        > > > > > > > > > > > hydrology in the Carribean working full on
        right
        > > now,
        > > > > > > making
        > > > > > > > > > > > conditions EMF poor for tropical storms. OTOH,
        > > waves
        > > > > > > coming
        > > > > > > > > out
        > > > > > > > > > of
        > > > > > > > > > > > Africa are starting to feel the BENEFIT of
        delays
        > > of
        > > > > > > > hydrology
        > > > > > > > > > from
        > > > > > > > > > > > West Africa dams and hydrology changes. (I
        > haven't
        > > > been
        > > > > > > able
        > > > > > > > to
        > > > > > > > > > > > figure out quite yet what the even MORE recent
        > > > changes
        > > > > to
        > > > > > > the
        > > > > > > > > > > > Amazon's hydrology means, but if you look in
        the
        > > > delta
        > > > > > and
        > > > > > > > > > > extending
        > > > > > > > > > > > out there, there also are cold anamolies
        > matching,
        > > > > again,
        > > > > > > > their
        > > > > > > > > > > early
        > > > > > > > > > > > spring. Africa had cold anomalies in early
        > March,
        > > > > > > matching
        > > > > > > > > their
        > > > > > > > > > > > spring.
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > It is later in the fall (shifting season) when
        > > there
        > > > is
        > > > > a
        > > > > > > > match
        > > > > > > > > > of
        > > > > > > > > > > > the delayed hydrology of the South American
        > > > conditions
        > > > > w/
        > > > > > > the
        > > > > > > > > > West
        > > > > > > > > > > > African conditions that we see the season
        > actually
        > > > > taking
        > > > > > > > > form.
        > > > > > > > > > > This
        > > > > > > > > > > > happens to corresponded to the asymetric
        changes
        > by
        > > > > > > > hemisphere
        > > > > > > > > > that
        > > > > > > > > > > > are occurring in the Pacific, when Doran waves
        > have
        > > > > > really
        > > > > > > > come
        > > > > > > > > > > > strong from the E. Pac and you have that
        > resulting
        > > > warm
        > > > > > > > anomaly
        > > > > > > > > > > area
        > > > > > > > > > > > by Panama. That is why we have, from an EMF
        > > > > standpoint,
        > > > > > > had
        > > > > > > > > > Mitch,
        > > > > > > > > > > > Kevin, Iris, Caracus 1999, Michelle, and will
        > have
        > > > > > another
        > > > > > > > > Mitch
        > > > > > > > > > > like
        > > > > > > > > > > > storm LATER in the year.
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > With no SOx event from a volcano which drop
        phase
        > > > > change
        > > > > > > > > > > temperatures
        > > > > > > > > > > > of cirrus, we can also be sure that this storm
        (s)
        > > > will
        > > > > > > stall
        > > > > > > > > and
        > > > > > > > > > > > flood.
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx
        > > > <no_reply@y...>
        > > > > > > wrote:
        > > > > > > > > > > > > How could warmer waters mean colder SSTs???
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > "Counterintuitively, in general warmer
        oceans
        > > > result
        > > > > > in
        > > > > > > > more
        > > > > > > > > > > > > induction both for and against cirrus, which
        > > alters
        > > > > > > SSTs,
        > > > > > > > and
        > > > > > > > > > in
        > > > > > > > > > > > this
        > > > > > > > > > > > > case,since the circumpoler around Antarctica
        > > moves
        > > > > from
        > > > > > > > west
        > > > > > > > > to
        > > > > > > > > > > > east
        > > > > > > > > > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs"...
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > Nevermind that I still see no strong evidence
        > > that
        > > > > > > > electrical
        > > > > > > > > > > > > currents induced by ocean currents have any
        > > > > measurable
        > > > > > > > effect
        > > > > > > > > > on
        > > > > > > > > > > > > cirrus clouds. IMHO, any currents are too
        weak
        > to
        > > > be
        > > > > > > > > > significant.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > Fred
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart"
        > > > > <mike@u...>
        > > > > > > > wrote:
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.spacedaily.com/news/climate-
        > 02y.html
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > "In the Science paper, the El Nino-like
        > > > conditions
        > > > > > > > > correspond
        > > > > > > > > > > to
        > > > > > > > > > > > > the
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > cold period. This is actually rather
        > > surprising,"
        > > > > > > Poulsen
        > > > > > > > > > > > > said. "Most
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > climate scientists would have guessed that
        > the
        > > > cold
        > > > > > > > periods
        > > > > > > > > > > would
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > correspond to La Nina-like conditions. So,
        it
        > > is
        > > > > > clear
        > > > > > > > that
        > > > > > > > > > we
        > > > > > > > > > > > > don't
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > completely understand the physics that
        > control
        > > > the
        > > > > > > > tropical
        > > > > > > > > > > > climate
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > variability between warm and cold periods."
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > Comment:
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is occurring is much like the colder
        > > oceans,
        > > > > > post
        > > > > > > > Mt.
        > > > > > > > > > > > Pinatubo
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > and pre flaring cycle peak of 1997 and
        oceans
        > > of
        > > > > now.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > Counterintuitively, in general warmer
        oceans
        > > > result
        > > > > > in
        > > > > > > > more
        > > > > > > > > > > > > induction
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > both for and against cirrus, which alters
        > SSTs,
        > > > and
        > > > > > in
        > > > > > > > this
        > > > > > > > > > > case,
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > since the circumpoler around Antarctica
        moves
        > > > from
        > > > > > > west
        > > > > > > > to
        > > > > > > > > > east
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs, and these
        > SSTs
        > > > > gyre
        > > > > > > > around
        > > > > > > > > > and
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > create La Nina or La Nada, not El Nino.
        OTOH,
        > > > with
        > > > > > > > > relatively
        > > > > > > > > > > > > cooler
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > waters in 1997, as flaring began to occur
        and
        > > the
        > > > > air
        > > > > > > > > cleared
        > > > > > > > > > > of
        > > > > > > > > > > > > SOx,
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > the colder oceans inducted less AGAINST
        > cirrus
        > > in
        > > > > the
        > > > > > > > > > Southern
        > > > > > > > > > > > > Oceans
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > and this resulted in warm SSTs, which gyred
        > > > around
        > > > > to
        > > > > > > > give
        > > > > > > > > us
        > > > > > > > > > > the
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > largest El Nino in at least 500 years.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > The latest satellite data for the lower
        > > > troposphere:
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > Global trend per decade = +0.064°C,
        (Northern
        > > > > > > Hemisphere
        > > > > > > > =
        > > > > > > > > > > +0.136°
        > > > > > > > > > > > > C,
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > Southern Hemisphere = - 0.008°C.)
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > Global June 2002 = + 0.2°C, (Northern
        > > Hemisphere
        > > > =
        > > > > > > +0.217°
        > > > > > > > > C,
        > > > > > > > > > > > > Southern
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hemisphere = +0.183°C.)
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > The asymetry between hemisphere is DIRECTLY
        > > > related
        > > > > > to
        > > > > > > > what
        > > > > > > > > > > > warming
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > oceans mean to EMFs and cirrus--in that the
        > > > > Southern
        > > > > > > > > Ocean's
        > > > > > > > > > > > added
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > input of a current that moves so strongly
        > from
        > > > west
        > > > > > to
        > > > > > > > east
        > > > > > > > > > > > around
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > Antarctica. A warmer inducter of the oceans
        > > > inducts
        > > > > > > > better,
        > > > > > > > > > and
        > > > > > > > > > > > in
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > this case, warmer for the northern
        > hemisphere's
        > > > > > oceans
        > > > > > > > > means
        > > > > > > > > > on
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > balance there is more induction for cirrus
        > due
        > > to
        > > > > > > current
        > > > > > > > > > > > > direction .
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > . .
      • pawnfart
        ... Good question. Again, break it down. The convection is the motor to cause charge separation and ultimately that convection, which is driven by the sun,
        Message 3 of 17 , Aug 2, 2002
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          --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
          > You are losing me again here.
          > You said that "underneath where there WAS the convection in Western
          > Africa, the positive charges that attracted the electron
          > concentration, in a capacitive manner, are no longer there."

          Good question. Again, break it down. The convection is the motor to
          cause charge separation and ultimately that convection, which is
          driven by the sun, is what keeps the lower ionosphere generally
          positively charged. That said, the MOST positively charged part of
          this dynamic is cirrus clouds pre-sprite/elve. There are TWO
          capacitive functions going on here, and really three if you hook in
          the oceans. That is because between GROUND and the lower portion of
          the clouds, there are dry line positive ion concentrations, which
          makes, by this opposits attract, the lower clouds NEGITIVE. HOWEVER,
          since no current flows but for strikes, elves and sprites, except
          inside the cloud itself, the upper part of the clouds becomes
          positive. Indeed, more positive than the lower ionosphere. Again,
          relatively speaking we are talking. So, above the positively charged
          upper cloud in capacitor number two, where there is, but for strikes,
          elves and sprites, no current in the air between cloud top and
          ionosphere. Therefore, electrons, if available, will move over that
          convective region and be drawn to the high clouds. Once the
          concentrations of ions get too extreme, say, from a strike from the
          low clouds--boom, you get elves and sprites and the cirrus are no
          longer opposites which attrack and are suspended by the EMF
          capacitive differences.


          What I am saying about the lower clouds to ocean dynamic is that it
          differs from the lower cloud to W. Africa dyamanic, that, int his
          particular situation resulted in the convection ending. While this
          ended the charge seperation that creates the ionosphere's positive
          charge, This still left this hug quantity of electrons in the
          ionosphere with no very positive cloud any more to be attracted to--
          so it moves to the ITCZ to get some further positive charges.



          >
          > Unerneath the convection over West Aftrica the thunderstorms will
          > induce a positive charge on the ground in response to the negative
          > charge in the lower portion of the clouds. The result is cloud to
          > ground lightning. The stream of electrons channels downward from
          the
          > cloud to the ground. As it nears the ground a positively charged
          > channel meets it (return stroke?). What I understan you to mean is
          > that after the discharges the ground and the lower cloud electical
          > charges are neutralized. ????
          >
          > Then you said "That means these electrons concentrations will move
          > (repelled by themselves, attracted to other positive cloud tops"
          >
          > I am lost here because I would think that the there would no longer
          > be an electron concentration.
          >
          > anyway, I have said I am unsure when it comes to electricity.
          >
          > fred
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > > <<"And if so, it makes the charge on the front more what?">>
          You
          > > > lost me here - what front? Do you mean the ITCZ?
          > >
          > > The ITCZ--yes. What happens is that relatively speaking
          underneath
          > > where there WAS the convection in Western Africa, the positive
          > > charges that attracted the electron concentration, in a
          capacitive
          > > manner, are no longer there. That means these electrons
          > > concentrations will move (repelled by themselves, attracted to
          > other
          > > positive cloud tops). In this case, they move along the ITCZ to
          > > reach a similar equillibrium as that which occurred over the
          > > convective cloud cover.
          > >
          > > I am not the only one interested in this theory. Check out this:
          > >
          > > http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/07/31/earth.rays/index.html
          > >
          > > Report: Cosmic rays influence climate change
          > > July 31, 2002 Posted: 9:26 AM EDT (1326 GMT)
          > >
          > > By Richard Stenger
          > >
          > > (CNN) -- The Earth has experienced higher surface but not
          > atmospheric
          > > temperatures in recent decades. Now a climate scientist thinks he
          > > knows why: highly charged particles originating beyond the solar
          > > system.
          > >
          > > The inconsistencies in ground and air temperature patterns have
          led
          > > some scientists to dismiss the idea that global warming is taking
          > > place.
          > >
          > > But one New York researcher suggests the discrepancy takes place
          > > because of the effect of interstellar cosmic rays on cloud
          > coverage.
          > > Other climate scientists have proposed a link between cosmic rays
          > and
          > > clouds.
          > >
          > > Research professor Fangqun Yu of the State University of New York-
          > > Albany goes further, proposing that low and high altitude clouds
          > > react differently to the rays, contributing to greater thermostat
          > > gaps near the surface and higher in the atmosphere.
          > >
          > > The number of cosmic rays that strike Earth depends to some
          degree
          > on
          > > the sun. Solar winds, which can protect the Earth from the
          > > interstellar rays, vary in intensity as the sun waxes and wanes
          in
          > > intensity, according to Yu.
          > >
          > > "A systematic change in global cloud cover will change the
          > > atmospheric heating profile," he said in a statement this week.
          > >
          > > "In other words, the cosmic ray-induced global cloud changes
          could
          > be
          > > the long-sought mechanism connecting solar and climate
          > variability."
          > >
          > > Yu said that observations of global warming this century have
          > > corresponded with lowered cosmic ray intensities.
          > >
          > > The hypothesis does not disregard man-made contributions to
          climate
          > > change. Greenhouse gases introduced by humans could affect the
          > cosmic
          > > ray-cloud interactions, he said.
          > >
          > > In any case, Yu proposes that cosmic rays help stoke the
          formation
          > of
          > > dense clouds in the lower atmosphere while having a little or
          > > negative affect on cloud cover in the upper atmosphere.
          > >
          > > The low clouds retain more surface energy, keeping the
          surrounding
          > > air hot, while thin high clouds reflect more sunlight into space,
          > > keeping the upper atmosphere cooler.
          > >
          > > Satellite data offer evidence consistent with the hypothesis,
          which
          > > Yu presents in the July issue of the Journal of Geophysical
          > Research-
          > > Space Physics.
          > >
          > > +++++++
          > >
          > > Comments:
          > >
          > > What I want you to notice is the author of this research has NO
          EMF
          > > training directly--he is an atmospheric scientist. Further, and
          > more
          > > importantly, he has NO BIOLOGY in his background. Most of these
          > > scholars are highly specialized on the edge of their kens--and
          the
          > > cross thinking just isn't there:
          > >
          > > http://www.albany.edu/~yfq/resume_txt.html
          > >
          > > EDUCATION
          > >
          > > 1998 Ph.D., Atmospheric Sciences, University of
          > California
          > > at Los Angeles
          > > 1996 M.S., Atmospheric Sciences, University of
          > California
          > > at Los Angeles
          > > 1994 M.S., Atmospheric Physics, Institute of
          > Atmospheric
          > > Physics, China
          > > 1991 B.S., Atmospheric Sciences, Peking University,
          China
          > >
          > > PROFESSIONAL ACTIVITIES, AWARDS, HONORS
          > >
          > > Invited to give a review talk on the Effect of Galactic Cosmic
          > > Rays on Aerosol
          > > Nucleation, Workshop on Ion-Aerosol-Cloud Interactions,
          CERN,
          > > Geneva,
          > > Switzerland, April18-20, 2001.
          > > (http://cloud.web.cern.ch/cloud/iaci_workshop)
          > >
          > > Publications:
          > >
          > > Yu, F. and R. P. Turco, From molecular clusters to nanoparticles:
          > The
          > > role of ambient ionization in tropospheric aerosol formation, J.
          > > Geophys. Res., 106, 4797-4814, 2001.
          > >
          > > ++++++++++
          > >
          > > My point is that the experts are starting to see the EMF, as, for
          > > instance B-1 and I have been documenting for over a year now, but
          > > what isn't occurring is the connection between this physical
          > forcing
          > > and the stability of "climate" which can only come from
          modulation.
          > >
          > > Here are some additional links from the P. Sciences side of this:
          > >
          > > http://ae.atmos.uah.edu/AE/ams_2001b.html
          > >
          > > The SPECIAL workshop is entitled: "Space Weather and the Earth's
          > > Weather and Climate: Links between solar activity, magnetospheric
          > > variability, clouds, thunderstorms, and lightning." The workshop
          > > hosts three distinct thematic groups which are working on :
          > >
          > > (1) Global Atmospheric Electric Circuit
          > >
          > > (2) Charged Particle Fluxes, Events, and Statistics and
          > >
          > > (3) Sprites and Lightning.
          > >
          > > During the workshop, distinct introductory review lectures will
          be
          > > given and an extended poster session will be held for discussion
          > and
          > > planning of future research. For more detailed information on the
          > > SPECIAL goals, registration forms, and recent announcements,
          check
          > > out
          > >
          > > http://www.atmospheric-
          > electricity.org/newsletters/2001fall/research-
          > > activity.html
          > >
          > > http://www.sgo.fi/SPECIAL/
          > >
          > > http://www.atmospheric-
          > electricity.org/newsletters/2001fall/research-
          > > activity.html
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
          > > > > Okay. If a neg charge accumulates at one end of a capacitor,
          > > what
          > > > > happens to the charge on the other end?
          > > > >
          > > > > Say a wave rolls of the coast of Africa and it brings
          negitive
          > > > > charges to the ionosphere along the ITCZ. And quickly that
          > > charge
          > > > > spreads along the ITCZ all the way to South America, and in
          > this
          > > > > case, over the past day or so, all the way to the E. Pac.
          > > > > Underneath, the charge will have a tendency to be what? And
          if
          > > so,
          > > > > it makes the charge on the front more what? And so over the
          > > > > equatorial zones where there is fair weather, what charges
          will
          > > the
          > > > > ionosphere there become? Doran waves move by capacitance--
          > hence
          > > > > impedence is the measure of the oceans behavior . . .
          > > > >
          > > > > ++++++++++++++++++++++
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Below is a great link on dust.
          > > > >
          > > > > I think it really shows how EMFs are involved w/ the waves as
          > the
          > > > dry
          > > > > air has your positive voltage to ground and really charges
          the
          > > dust
          > > > > and makes them suspend whereas the water vaper in the the air
          > > takes
          > > > > away that charge and causes the dust to drop by gravity.
          > > > >
          > > > > Where you can really see the EMF/Gaia is as that dust wave
          goes
          > > > near
          > > > > our Florida West Keys area and gets broken up but then sort
          of
          > > > > reforms along the Texas coast . . .
          > > > >
          > > > > The final set of frames is interesting, too, from an EMF
          stand
          > > > point.
          > > > > What I want everyone to notice is how when that wave comes
          off
          > > the
          > > > > African coast it electrifies the entire Atlantic and connects
          > w/
          > > > the
          > > > > Pacific in a straight line. No waves, IOW, because the EMF
          > > contrast
          > > > > between the dry strip of the counter and equator and the wet
          > area
          > > > is
          > > > > so grand. But in the process of moving like that, I suspect
          it
          > > can
          > > > > cause instability.
          > > > >
          > > > > The SOI right now is flat zero w/ no TS activity anywhere.
          > > > >
          > > > > Understand it is very early spring for the Southern
          Hemisphere
          > > and
          > > > no
          > > > > hydrology is going to the ocean biosphere in the Carribean to
          > > speak
          > > > > of. Typically, we would start to see some hydrology in
          > September,
          > > > as
          > > > > someone here reminded us. BUT, with the dams, another story!
          > > > >
          > > > > With all these new sats and this new understanding of EMFs,
          > folks
          > > > > here are going to get a free intellectual ride that doesn't
          > come
          > > > > often in life. Strap up. It's going to be fun. When this
          > becomes
          > > > more
          > > > > mainstream, you can tell your grand kids you were there when
          it
          > > all
          > > > > started.
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/tropic/real-
          > > > > time/wavetrak/movies/atlsal/atlsalwavejava5.html
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
          > > > > > Capacitors store electricity and block the flow of Direct
          > > > Current.
          > > > > I
          > > > > > understand it to be two electric conductors separated by a
          > > > > > nonconductor of electric current.
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...>
          wrote:
          > > > > > > I totally agree that this is true--but disagree what I
          > think
          > > > you
          > > > > > may
          > > > > > > be trying to say.
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > Strikes over a TS would be like a leaking capaciter.
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > Do you know how a capaciter works?
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > Put it this way--what do you think the charge of the
          > surface
          > > > > under
          > > > > > an
          > > > > > > eye is if the ionosphere carries a huge negitive charge?
          > > What
          > > > > kind
          > > > > > > of electrons will be favored on the surface? What charge
          > > will
          > > > be
          > > > > > > repelled and what attracted?
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...>
          > wrote:
          > > > > > > > RE: The huge voltages of electrons over the eye:
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > "Surprisingly, not much lightning occurs in the inner
          > core
          > > > > > (within
          > > > > > > > about 100 km or 60 mi) of the tropical cyclone center.
          > Only
          > > > > > around
          > > > > > > a
          > > > > > > > dozen or less cloud-to-ground strikes per hour occur
          > around
          > > > the
          > > > > > > > eyewall of the storm...."
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/tcfaq/G10.html
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...>
          > > wrote:
          > > > > > > > > have been observed, Fred.
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > And yes, it is a wave feature. Capacitance, for
          > > instance,
          > > > > > works
          > > > > > > > > between the ionosphere, which is conductive to direct
          > > > > currents,
          > > > > > > > and
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > "> the oceans, which is also conductive, BUT the air is
          > > > > > insulative--
          > > > > > > > just
          > > > > > > > > like a capaciter--which is thus able to communicate
          > waves
          > > > but
          > > > > > not
          > > > > > > > > DC. Get it?
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx
          <no_reply@y...>
          > > > wrote:
          > > > > > > > > > <<"LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical
          > systems
          > > > are
          > > > > > > > > > electrical.">>
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > I am not sure what you mean here. As far as I
          > remember,
          > > > > > > tropical
          > > > > > > > > > storms have less electrical energy (fewer lightning
          > > > strikes)
          > > > > > > than
          > > > > > > > > > would be expected. I understand the reason has to
          do
          > > with
          > > > > the
          > > > > > > > low
          > > > > > > > > > level air temps being high and that this does not
          > allow
          > > a
          > > > > > large
          > > > > > > > > > enough zone of below freezing temps in the upper
          > clouds
          > > > to
          > > > > > > > produce
          > > > > > > > > > the electical charge separation. The result is
          > heavier
          > > > > > rainfall
          > > > > > > > but
          > > > > > > > > > less lightning discharges.
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > Fred
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart"
          > <mike@u...>
          > > > > wrote:
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx
          > > <no_reply@y...>
          > > > > > wrote:
          > > > > > > > > > > > <<"is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the
          > > > > currents
          > > > > > > > > involved
          > > > > > > > > > > are
          > > > > > > > > > > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the
          > > context
          > > > of
          > > > > > the
          > > > > > > > > > earth's
          > > > > > > > > > > > EMF.">>
          > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > Current = Voltage/Impedence which implies that
          > > > > impedance
          > > > > > is
          > > > > > > > =
          > > > > > > > > or
          > > > > > > > > > > > similar to resistance?
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > Yes it is. It INCLUDES resistance. Capacitance.
          > > > > > Inductance.
          > > > > > > > > > Hence,
          > > > > > > > > > > SSTs is part of its measure.
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure what you mean by "NOT just the
          > > earth's
          > > > > EMF
          > > > > > > but
          > > > > > > > > > > currents
          > > > > > > > > > > > in the context of earth's EMF's???
          > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > As you know, I have put up this link to an
          abstract
          > > > about
          > > > > > > > > > measurable
          > > > > > > > > > > induction by ocean currents:
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > >
          http://www.gfdl.gov/~gth/netscape/1992/dbs9201.html
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > BUT, this is merely what ocean currents are like
          in
          > > the
          > > > > > > > context
          > > > > > > > > of
          > > > > > > > > > > the earth's EMF and ignores the "noise" of other
          > > EMFs.
          > > > > > What
          > > > > > > I
          > > > > > > > am
          > > > > > > > > > > saying is that when a strike occurs this itself
          has
          > > an
          > > > > EMF
          > > > > > in
          > > > > > > > > that
          > > > > > > > > > > locality and for that short period, with itself
          is
          > > > > > ORGANIZED
          > > > > > > > in
          > > > > > > > > the
          > > > > > > > > > > context of the earth's EMF. Hence, direction of
          > > > current
          > > > > > for
          > > > > > > > > these
          > > > > > > > > > > outliners or noise is going to be more
          significant
          > > > > because
          > > > > > we
          > > > > > > > are
          > > > > > > > > > > dealing with larger EMFs. Just by itself, the
          > > earth's
          > > > > EMF
          > > > > > is
          > > > > > > > > > fairly
          > > > > > > > > > > small, so the induction off of it is likewise
          > small.
          > > > But
          > > > > > in
          > > > > > > > the
          > > > > > > > > > > context of upper atmospheric EMFs then the
          > direction
          > > of
          > > > > > ocean
          > > > > > > > > > > currents start to matter for their inductive
          > > properties
          > > > > > > > depending
          > > > > > > > > > on
          > > > > > > > > > > their direction. THEN, this induction sums to be
          > > > > > significant
          > > > > > > > the
          > > > > > > > > > > inductance subpart of impedence. Hence, when a
          > Doran
          > > > > wave
          > > > > > > > goes
          > > > > > > > > > > through the pulse of ions is met with a varying
          EMF
          > > > > > condition!
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > In this context here is from TWC where a poster
          was
          > > > > > > commenting
          > > > > > > > on
          > > > > > > > > > why
          > > > > > > > > > > in the N. Atlantic TS development won't go toward
          > the
          > > > > > equator
          > > > > > > > and
          > > > > > > > > > my
          > > > > > > > > > > response:
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > ". . . then it's the ITCZ position that is
          limiting
          > > > > > > > development.
          > > > > > > > > > NOT
          > > > > > > > > > > Coriolois. Coriolois is exactly equal at the same
          > > > > latitudes
          > > > > > > > all
          > > > > > > > > > over
          > > > > > > > > > > the world, 365 days a year. If it was Coriolois
          > > > limiting
          > > > > > > > > > development
          > > > > > > > > > > in the CV region in the North Atlantic, it
          > > > > > wouldn't "Change"
          > > > > > > > > during
          > > > > > > > > > > the year."
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > "What makes the North Atlantic unusual is the
          > > > dependence
          > > > > of
          > > > > > > > > > formation
          > > > > > > > > > > of storms on the African Easterly Jet (AEJ); it
          > > simply
          > > > > > never
          > > > > > > > gets
          > > > > > > > > > > that far south to spit out a perturbation that
          far
          > > > south."
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > My response:
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > YES coriolis is important, but not for the
          reasons
          > so
          > > > far
          > > > > > > > stated.
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical
          systems
          > > are
          > > > > > > > > electrical.
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > Doran waves are critical to this EMF dynamic, and
          > > that
          > > > > > means
          > > > > > > > dry
          > > > > > > > > > > strips in the warm, tropical waters. This is
          where
          > > the
          > > > > > > counter
          > > > > > > > > > blows.
          > > > > > > > > > > Or dulldrums at worst. This makes for good fair
          > > weather
          > > > > > > > voltages
          > > > > > > > > > > positive 250 volts to ground. Induction, IOW,
          > offers
          > > > > > nothing
          > > > > > > > more
          > > > > > > > > > to
          > > > > > > > > > > impedance.
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > If you have very warm waters and induction from
          > west
          > > to
          > > > > > east
          > > > > > > > > these
          > > > > > > > > > > waters will really be good proton catchers. That
          > > leaves
          > > > > > > > electrons
          > > > > > > > > > in
          > > > > > > > > > > the ionosphere for the ITCZ. Or Doran waves.
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > Further, coriolis will help define the inner EMF
          > > > dynamic
          > > > > of
          > > > > > > > the
          > > > > > > > > TS
          > > > > > > > > > > itself.
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > Finally, landfalling brings about EMF questions
          of
          > > EMF
          > > > > > > > potentials
          > > > > > > > > > > between land and ocean and monsoons are their own
          > EMF
          > > > > > > > dynamics,
          > > > > > > > > > which
          > > > > > > > > > > can overcome the gyres/counter EMFs dynamics.
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > Understand we are talking about HUGE IR values
          > under
          > > > > > cirrus.
          > > > > > > > No
          > > > > > > > > > EMF,
          > > > > > > > > > > no cirrus, no warm core lows.
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > +++++
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > I would additionally add that the jet stream is
          > going
          > > > to
          > > > > > > cause
          > > > > > > > > EMF
          > > > > > > > > > > instability as well as air pressure instability,
          > and
          > > > that
          > > > > > EMF
          > > > > > > > > > > instability is more why storms occur along the
          > jets,
          > > as
          > > > > dry
          > > > > > > > > > > lines/patches/strips meeting areas of
          conductivity
          > > > means
          > > > > > that
          > > > > > > > > youll
          > > > > > > > > > > have areas where cirrus are enhanced toward the
          > > > > ionosphere
          > > > > > in
          > > > > > > > a
          > > > > > > > > > VERY
          > > > > > > > > > > strong manner and there won't be lack of negitive
          > > > charges
          > > > > > in
          > > > > > > > the
          > > > > > > > > > > ionosphere as there is so much positive to ground
          > > > > voltages
          > > > > > > all
          > > > > > > > > > around
          > > > > > > > > > > the place of instability. This means that you
          will
          > > have
          > > > > IR
          > > > > > > > values
          > > > > > > > > > > under the cirrus that are very high and nearby
          air
          > > that
          > > > > > > > doesn't
          > > > > > > > > > > retain any heat and this spells for strong
          > exchanges
          > > of
          > > > > > > energy.
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > This dynamic, from an EMF standpoint, differs
          from
          > > the
          > > > > > > > tropical
          > > > > > > > > > > storm, which has the negitive charges above the
          > warm
          > > > core
          > > > > > > low,
          > > > > > > > > with
          > > > > > > > > > > positive charges above the cirrus, so positive
          that
          > > the
          > > > > > upper
          > > > > > > > > > clouds
          > > > > > > > > > > can't ever reach the potential differences by
          > > > themselves
          > > > > > > being
          > > > > > > > > more
          > > > > > > > > > > positive yet, to discharge that difference with
          > > sprites
          > > > > and
          > > > > > > > > elves,
          > > > > > > > > > > and hence they to move upwards, enhanced by the
          > > > positive
          > > > > > > > charges
          > > > > > > > > > > around the eye. Near the eye it is interesting
          > that
          > > > > strike
          > > > > > > > > > activity
          > > > > > > > > > > is rare. That is because the upper clouds and
          > > > ionosphere
          > > > > > is
          > > > > > > > so
          > > > > > > > > > > positively charged that it is difficult to take
          > more
          > > > > > > electrons
          > > > > > > > > > away,
          > > > > > > > > > > even from the lower clouds toward a positively
          > > charged
          > > > > > ocean
          > > > > > > > > > surface.
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > The ocean itself tends toward nuetral and basic
          pH,
          > > > btw.
          > > > > > > > Land,
          > > > > > > > > > otoh,
          > > > > > > > > > > will have a more acidic pH and more protons there
          > for
          > > a
          > > > > > > moving
          > > > > > > > > > front
          > > > > > > > > > > to move up to the high clouds from the ground.
          The
          > > > > > > insulative
          > > > > > > > > > > properties of hydrates and the pH of the oceans,
          of
          > > > > course,
          > > > > > > is
          > > > > > > > > all
          > > > > > > > > > > biologically connected, so one could see how
          waves
          > > > coming
          > > > > > off
          > > > > > > > of
          > > > > > > > > W.
          > > > > > > > > > > Africa that mean biologically active as opposed
          to
          > > not
          > > > > > active
          > > > > > > > > could
          > > > > > > > > > > die or not, become tropical or not, depending on
          > > those
          > > > > > > > conditions.
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > I first have to say I tend to get lost when it
          > > comes
          > > > to
          > > > > > > > > > > electricity.
          > > > > > > > > > > > Are you then saying that given the earth's
          > magnetic
          > > > > > field,
          > > > > > > > when
          > > > > > > > > > the
          > > > > > > > > > > > ocean currents move perpendicular across it
          east-
          > > > west)
          > > > > > this
          > > > > > > > > will
          > > > > > > > > > > > create an electrical current. The voltage of
          this
          > > > > > > > electricial
          > > > > > > > > > > current
          > > > > > > > > > > > would then be equal to electrical current times
          > the
          > > > > > > > Impedence
          > > > > > > > > > > > (resistance)??
          > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > Fred
          > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart"
          > > > <mike@u...>
          > > > > > > wrote:
          > > > > > > > > > > > > is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the
          > > > > currents
          > > > > > > > > involved
          > > > > > > > > > > are
          > > > > > > > > > > > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the
          > > > context
          > > > > of
          > > > > > > > the
          > > > > > > > > > > earth's
          > > > > > > > > > > > > EMF.
          > > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > There is a great example right now in the
          > Pacific
          > > > as
          > > > > > the
          > > > > > > > SOI
          > > > > > > > > is
          > > > > > > > > > > > near
          > > > > > > > > > > > > zero and pressures are VERY high in the
          > > equatorial
          > > > > > > > regions.
          > > > > > > > > > That
          > > > > > > > > > > > > means FAIR WEATHER voltages positive to
          ground
          > > and
          > > > > huge
          > > > > > > > Doran
          > > > > > > > > > > > waves.
          > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, guess what? There are FOUR tropical
          > > features
          > > > > in
          > > > > > > the
          > > > > > > > > > > Pacific--
          > > > > > > > > > > > > two in the E. Pac and two in the W. Pac!
          > > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > I also checked the TOA data and there remains
          a
          > > > > > windless
          > > > > > > > line
          > > > > > > > > > mid
          > > > > > > > > > > > > range.
          > > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > Another interesting feature is that with the
          > > latest
          > > > > > SSTs
          > > > > > > > the
          > > > > > > > > La
          > > > > > > > > > > > Nina
          > > > > > > > > > > > > 1, 2 continues to grow. Further, in the N.
          > > Pacific
          > > > > the
          > > > > > > > > waters
          > > > > > > > > > > > there
          > > > > > > > > > > > > are warm anomaly in the E. Pac where the
          canes
          > > > start
          > > > > > and
          > > > > > > > that
          > > > > > > > > > is
          > > > > > > > > > > > why
          > > > > > > > > > > > > those E. Pac storms are forming, then cooling
          > the
          > > > > SSTs
          > > > > > > > that
          > > > > > > > > > gyre
          > > > > > > > > > > > > around and you have a future with cold
          > anomalies
          > > > even
          > > > > > in
          > > > > > > > 3, 4
          > > > > > > > > > due
          > > > > > > > > > > > to
          > > > > > > > > > > > > this. YET, in the S. Pacific in the same
          > region,
          > > > > just
          > > > > > > > south,
          > > > > > > > > > > SSTS
          > > > > > > > > > > > > are initinally cold gyring in from the
          Southern
          > > > > Oceans
          > > > > > > and
          > > > > > > > > then
          > > > > > > > > > > the
          > > > > > > > > > > > > eddy gets warm anomally in the eddy coming
          back
          > > > > because
          > > > > > > > cold
          > > > > > > > > > > means
          > > > > > > > > > > > > less impeadance coming back for cirrus. This
          > is
          > > > > > CLEARLY
          > > > > > > > > > > reflected
          > > > > > > > > > > > in
          > > > > > > > > > > > > the SST anomalies:
          > > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > http://psbsgi1.nesdis.noaa.gov:8080/PSB/EPS/SST/climo.html
          > > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > Another feature to see is the cold anomalies
          in
          > > the
          > > > > > > > > Carribean.
          > > > > > > > > > > > That
          > > > > > > > > > > > > is because if you think about it, as it is
          July
          > > > that
          > > > > is
          > > > > > > > the
          > > > > > > > > > same
          > > > > > > > > > > as
          > > > > > > > > > > > > January for the N. Hemisphere. For the semi
          > > > tropical
          > > > > > > > regions
          > > > > > > > > > > that
          > > > > > > > > > > > > means early spring. Now, if there are DAMS
          now
          > > on
          > > > > the
          > > > > > > > > Orinoco
          > > > > > > > > > as
          > > > > > > > > > > > the
          > > > > > > > > > > > > winter snows in the mountains start to melt
          and
          > > the
          > > > > > > spring
          > > > > > > > > > rains
          > > > > > > > > > > > > come, and dams capture those early flows,
          > > hydrology
          > > > > is
          > > > > > > > > plugged,
          > > > > > > > > > > > guess
          > > > > > > > > > > > > what? The Carribean becomes Gaia unhealthy.
          > EMF
          > > > > > > > impeadance
          > > > > > > > > is
          > > > > > > > > > > > > reduced there from the biological
          conditions.
          > > This
          > > > > is
          > > > > > > > true
          > > > > > > > > > > whether
          > > > > > > > > > > > > we are talking about hydrate fields near the
          > > > Orinoco
          > > > > or
          > > > > > > pH
          > > > > > > > > > > levels.
          > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, check out the SST anomalies there!
          Cold!
          > > > This
          > > > > is
          > > > > > > > how
          > > > > > > > > the
          > > > > > > > > > > > > season shifts, my friends.
          > > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > We have both a La Nina making mechanism in
          the
          > E.
          > > > Pac
          > > > > > and
          > > > > > > > a
          > > > > > > > > > delay
          > > > > > > > > > > > in
          > > > > > > > > > > > > hydrology in the Carribean working full on
          > right
          > > > now,
          > > > > > > > making
          > > > > > > > > > > > > conditions EMF poor for tropical storms.
          OTOH,
          > > > waves
          > > > > > > > coming
          > > > > > > > > > out
          > > > > > > > > > > of
          > > > > > > > > > > > > Africa are starting to feel the BENEFIT of
          > delays
          > > > of
          > > > > > > > > hydrology
          > > > > > > > > > > from
          > > > > > > > > > > > > West Africa dams and hydrology changes. (I
          > > haven't
          > > > > been
          > > > > > > > able
          > > > > > > > > to
          > > > > > > > > > > > > figure out quite yet what the even MORE
          recent
          > > > > changes
          > > > > > to
          > > > > > > > the
          > > > > > > > > > > > > Amazon's hydrology means, but if you look in
          > the
          > > > > delta
          > > > > > > and
          > > > > > > > > > > > extending
          > > > > > > > > > > > > out there, there also are cold anamolies
          > > matching,
          > > > > > again,
          > > > > > > > > their
          > > > > > > > > > > > early
          > > > > > > > > > > > > spring. Africa had cold anomalies in early
          > > March,
          > > > > > > > matching
          > > > > > > > > > their
          > > > > > > > > > > > > spring.
          > > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > It is later in the fall (shifting season)
          when
          > > > there
          > > > > is
          > > > > > a
          > > > > > > > > match
          > > > > > > > > > > of
          > > > > > > > > > > > > the delayed hydrology of the South American
          > > > > conditions
          > > > > > w/
          > > > > > > > the
          > > > > > > > > > > West
          > > > > > > > > > > > > African conditions that we see the season
          > > actually
          > > > > > taking
          > > > > > > > > > form.
          > > > > > > > > > > > This
          > > > > > > > > > > > > happens to corresponded to the asymetric
          > changes
          > > by
          > > > > > > > > hemisphere
          > > > > > > > > > > that
          > > > > > > > > > > > > are occurring in the Pacific, when Doran
          waves
          > > have
          > > > > > > really
          > > > > > > > > come
          > > > > > > > > > > > > strong from the E. Pac and you have that
          > > resulting
          > > > > warm
          > > > > > > > > anomaly
          > > > > > > > > > > > area
          > > > > > > > > > > > > by Panama. That is why we have, from an EMF
          > > > > > standpoint,
          > > > > > > > had
          > > > > > > > > > > Mitch,
          > > > > > > > > > > > > Kevin, Iris, Caracus 1999, Michelle, and will
          > > have
          > > > > > > another
          > > > > > > > > > Mitch
          > > > > > > > > > > > like
          > > > > > > > > > > > > storm LATER in the year.
          > > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > With no SOx event from a volcano which drop
          > phase
          > > > > > change
          > > > > > > > > > > > temperatures
          > > > > > > > > > > > > of cirrus, we can also be sure that this storm
          > (s)
          > > > > will
          > > > > > > > stall
          > > > > > > > > > and
          > > > > > > > > > > > > flood.
          > > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx
          > > > > <no_reply@y...>
          > > > > > > > wrote:
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > How could warmer waters mean colder SSTs???
          > > > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Counterintuitively, in general warmer
          > oceans
          > > > > result
          > > > > > > in
          > > > > > > > > more
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > induction both for and against cirrus,
          which
          > > > alters
          > > > > > > > SSTs,
          > > > > > > > > and
          > > > > > > > > > > in
          > > > > > > > > > > > > this
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > case,since the circumpoler around
          Antarctica
          > > > moves
          > > > > > from
          > > > > > > > > west
          > > > > > > > > > to
          > > > > > > > > > > > > east
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs"...
          > > > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nevermind that I still see no strong
          evidence
          > > > that
          > > > > > > > > electrical
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > currents induced by ocean currents have any
          > > > > > measurable
          > > > > > > > > effect
          > > > > > > > > > > on
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > cirrus clouds. IMHO, any currents are too
          > weak
          > > to
          > > > > be
          > > > > > > > > > > significant.
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fred
          > > > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart"
          > > > > > <mike@u...>
          > > > > > > > > wrote:
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.spacedaily.com/news/climate-
          > > 02y.html
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "In the Science paper, the El Nino-like
          > > > > conditions
          > > > > > > > > > correspond
          > > > > > > > > > > > to
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > the
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cold period. This is actually rather
          > > > surprising,"
          > > > > > > > Poulsen
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > said. "Most
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > > climate scientists would have guessed
          that
          > > the
          > > > > cold
          > > > > > > > > periods
          > > > > > > > > > > > would
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > > correspond to La Nina-like conditions.
          So,
          > it
          > > > is
          > > > > > > clear
          > > > > > > > > that
          > > > > > > > > > > we
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > don't
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > > completely understand the physics that
          > > control
          > > > > the
          > > > > > > > > tropical
          > > > > > > > > > > > > climate
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > > variability between warm and cold
          periods."
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Comment:
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is occurring is much like the colder
          > > > oceans,
          > > > > > > post
          > > > > > > > > Mt.
          > > > > > > > > > > > > Pinatubo
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and pre flaring cycle peak of 1997 and
          > oceans
          > > > of
          > > > > > now.
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Counterintuitively, in general warmer
          > oceans
          > > > > result
          > > > > > > in
          > > > > > > > > more
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > induction
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > > both for and against cirrus, which alters
          > > SSTs,
          > > > > and
          > > > > > > in
          > > > > > > > > this
          > > > > > > > > > > > case,
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > > since the circumpoler around Antarctica
          > moves
          > > > > from
          > > > > > > > west
          > > > > > > > > to
          > > > > > > > > > > east
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs, and
          these
          > > SSTs
          > > > > > gyre
          > > > > > > > > around
          > > > > > > > > > > and
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > > create La Nina or La Nada, not El Nino.
          > OTOH,
          > > > > with
          > > > > > > > > > relatively
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > cooler
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > > waters in 1997, as flaring began to occur
          > and
          > > > the
          > > > > > air
          > > > > > > > > > cleared
          > > > > > > > > > > > of
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > SOx,
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the colder oceans inducted less AGAINST
          > > cirrus
          > > > in
          > > > > > the
          > > > > > > > > > > Southern
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oceans
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and this resulted in warm SSTs, which
          gyred
          > > > > around
          > > > > > to
          > > > > > > > > give
          > > > > > > > > > us
          > > > > > > > > > > > the
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > > largest El Nino in at least 500 years.
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The latest satellite data for the lower
          > > > > troposphere:
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Global trend per decade = +0.064°C,
          > (Northern
          > > > > > > > Hemisphere
          > > > > > > > > =
          > > > > > > > > > > > +0.136°
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > C,
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Southern Hemisphere = - 0.008°C.)
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Global June 2002 = + 0.2°C, (Northern
          > > > Hemisphere
          > > > > =
          > > > > > > > +0.217°
          > > > > > > > > > C,
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > Southern
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hemisphere = +0.183°C.)
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The asymetry between hemisphere is
          DIRECTLY
          > > > > related
          > > > > > > to
          > > > > > > > > what
          > > > > > > > > > > > > warming
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > > oceans mean to EMFs and cirrus--in that
          the
          > > > > > Southern
          > > > > > > > > > Ocean's
          > > > > > > > > > > > > added
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > > input of a current that moves so strongly
          > > from
          > > > > west
          > > > > > > to
          > > > > > > > > east
          > > > > > > > > > > > > around
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Antarctica. A warmer inducter of the
          oceans
          > > > > inducts
          > > > > > > > > better,
          > > > > > > > > > > and
          > > > > > > > > > > > > in
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this case, warmer for the northern
          > > hemisphere's
          > > > > > > oceans
          > > > > > > > > > means
          > > > > > > > > > > on
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > > balance there is more induction for
          cirrus
          > > due
          > > > to
          > > > > > > > current
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > direction .
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . .
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