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Re: The huge voltages of electrons over the eye

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  • fredwx
    I would assume at the other end a positive
    Message 1 of 17 , Jul 31, 2002
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      <<"Okay. If a neg charge accumulates at one end of a capacitor, what
      happens to the charge on the other end?">>

      I would assume at the other end a positive charge would form.

      Given your statement <<"Underneath, the charge will have a tendency
      to be what?">> I would answer it would tend to become positivly
      charged.


      <<"And if so, it makes the charge on the front more what?">> You
      lost me here - what front? Do you mean the ITCZ?



      --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
      > Okay. If a neg charge accumulates at one end of a capacitor, what
      > happens to the charge on the other end?
      >
      > Say a wave rolls of the coast of Africa and it brings negitive
      > charges to the ionosphere along the ITCZ. And quickly that charge
      > spreads along the ITCZ all the way to South America, and in this
      > case, over the past day or so, all the way to the E. Pac.
      > Underneath, the charge will have a tendency to be what? And if so,
      > it makes the charge on the front more what? And so over the
      > equatorial zones where there is fair weather, what charges will the
      > ionosphere there become? Doran waves move by capacitance--hence
      > impedence is the measure of the oceans behavior . . .
      >
      > ++++++++++++++++++++++
      >
      >
      >
      > Below is a great link on dust.
      >
      > I think it really shows how EMFs are involved w/ the waves as the
      dry
      > air has your positive voltage to ground and really charges the dust
      > and makes them suspend whereas the water vaper in the the air takes
      > away that charge and causes the dust to drop by gravity.
      >
      > Where you can really see the EMF/Gaia is as that dust wave goes
      near
      > our Florida West Keys area and gets broken up but then sort of
      > reforms along the Texas coast . . .
      >
      > The final set of frames is interesting, too, from an EMF stand
      point.
      > What I want everyone to notice is how when that wave comes off the
      > African coast it electrifies the entire Atlantic and connects w/
      the
      > Pacific in a straight line. No waves, IOW, because the EMF contrast
      > between the dry strip of the counter and equator and the wet area
      is
      > so grand. But in the process of moving like that, I suspect it can
      > cause instability.
      >
      > The SOI right now is flat zero w/ no TS activity anywhere.
      >
      > Understand it is very early spring for the Southern Hemisphere and
      no
      > hydrology is going to the ocean biosphere in the Carribean to speak
      > of. Typically, we would start to see some hydrology in September,
      as
      > someone here reminded us. BUT, with the dams, another story!
      >
      > With all these new sats and this new understanding of EMFs, folks
      > here are going to get a free intellectual ride that doesn't come
      > often in life. Strap up. It's going to be fun. When this becomes
      more
      > mainstream, you can tell your grand kids you were there when it all
      > started.
      >
      >
      > http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/tropic/real-
      > time/wavetrak/movies/atlsal/atlsalwavejava5.html
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
      > > Capacitors store electricity and block the flow of Direct
      Current.
      > I
      > > understand it to be two electric conductors separated by a
      > > nonconductor of electric current.
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
      > > > I totally agree that this is true--but disagree what I think
      you
      > > may
      > > > be trying to say.
      > > >
      > > > Strikes over a TS would be like a leaking capaciter.
      > > >
      > > > Do you know how a capaciter works?
      > > >
      > > > Put it this way--what do you think the charge of the surface
      > under
      > > an
      > > > eye is if the ionosphere carries a huge negitive charge? What
      > kind
      > > > of electrons will be favored on the surface? What charge will
      be
      > > > repelled and what attracted?
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
      > > > > RE: The huge voltages of electrons over the eye:
      > > > >
      > > > > "Surprisingly, not much lightning occurs in the inner core
      > > (within
      > > > > about 100 km or 60 mi) of the tropical cyclone center. Only
      > > around
      > > > a
      > > > > dozen or less cloud-to-ground strikes per hour occur around
      the
      > > > > eyewall of the storm...."
      > > > >
      > > > > http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/tcfaq/G10.html
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
      > > > > > have been observed, Fred.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > And yes, it is a wave feature. Capacitance, for instance,
      > > works
      > > > > > between the ionosphere, which is conductive to direct
      > currents,
      > > > > and
      > > > >
      > > > > "> the oceans, which is also conductive, BUT the air is
      > > insulative--
      > > > > just
      > > > > > like a capaciter--which is thus able to communicate waves
      but
      > > not
      > > > > > DC. Get it?
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...>
      wrote:
      > > > > > > <<"LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical systems
      are
      > > > > > > electrical.">>
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > I am not sure what you mean here. As far as I remember,
      > > > tropical
      > > > > > > storms have less electrical energy (fewer lightning
      strikes)
      > > > than
      > > > > > > would be expected. I understand the reason has to do with
      > the
      > > > > low
      > > > > > > level air temps being high and that this does not allow a
      > > large
      > > > > > > enough zone of below freezing temps in the upper clouds
      to
      > > > > produce
      > > > > > > the electical charge separation. The result is heavier
      > > rainfall
      > > > > but
      > > > > > > less lightning discharges.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Fred
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...>
      > wrote:
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...>
      > > wrote:
      > > > > > > > > <<"is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the
      > currents
      > > > > > involved
      > > > > > > > are
      > > > > > > > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the context
      of
      > > the
      > > > > > > earth's
      > > > > > > > > EMF.">>
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > Current = Voltage/Impedence which implies that
      > impedance
      > > is
      > > > > =
      > > > > > or
      > > > > > > > > similar to resistance?
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > Yes it is. It INCLUDES resistance. Capacitance.
      > > Inductance.
      > > > > > > Hence,
      > > > > > > > SSTs is part of its measure.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > I am not sure what you mean by "NOT just the earth's
      > EMF
      > > > but
      > > > > > > > currents
      > > > > > > > > in the context of earth's EMF's???
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > As you know, I have put up this link to an abstract
      about
      > > > > > > measurable
      > > > > > > > induction by ocean currents:
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > http://www.gfdl.gov/~gth/netscape/1992/dbs9201.html
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > BUT, this is merely what ocean currents are like in the
      > > > > context
      > > > > > of
      > > > > > > > the earth's EMF and ignores the "noise" of other EMFs.
      > > What
      > > > I
      > > > > am
      > > > > > > > saying is that when a strike occurs this itself has an
      > EMF
      > > in
      > > > > > that
      > > > > > > > locality and for that short period, with itself is
      > > ORGANIZED
      > > > > in
      > > > > > the
      > > > > > > > context of the earth's EMF. Hence, direction of
      current
      > > for
      > > > > > these
      > > > > > > > outliners or noise is going to be more significant
      > because
      > > we
      > > > > are
      > > > > > > > dealing with larger EMFs. Just by itself, the earth's
      > EMF
      > > is
      > > > > > > fairly
      > > > > > > > small, so the induction off of it is likewise small.
      But
      > > in
      > > > > the
      > > > > > > > context of upper atmospheric EMFs then the direction of
      > > ocean
      > > > > > > > currents start to matter for their inductive properties
      > > > > depending
      > > > > > > on
      > > > > > > > their direction. THEN, this induction sums to be
      > > significant
      > > > > the
      > > > > > > > inductance subpart of impedence. Hence, when a Doran
      > wave
      > > > > goes
      > > > > > > > through the pulse of ions is met with a varying EMF
      > > condition!
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > In this context here is from TWC where a poster was
      > > > commenting
      > > > > on
      > > > > > > why
      > > > > > > > in the N. Atlantic TS development won't go toward the
      > > equator
      > > > > and
      > > > > > > my
      > > > > > > > response:
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > ". . . then it's the ITCZ position that is limiting
      > > > > development.
      > > > > > > NOT
      > > > > > > > Coriolois. Coriolois is exactly equal at the same
      > latitudes
      > > > > all
      > > > > > > over
      > > > > > > > the world, 365 days a year. If it was Coriolois
      limiting
      > > > > > > development
      > > > > > > > in the CV region in the North Atlantic, it
      > > wouldn't "Change"
      > > > > > during
      > > > > > > > the year."
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > "What makes the North Atlantic unusual is the
      dependence
      > of
      > > > > > > formation
      > > > > > > > of storms on the African Easterly Jet (AEJ); it simply
      > > never
      > > > > gets
      > > > > > > > that far south to spit out a perturbation that far
      south."
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > My response:
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > YES coriolis is important, but not for the reasons so
      far
      > > > > stated.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical systems are
      > > > > > electrical.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > Doran waves are critical to this EMF dynamic, and that
      > > means
      > > > > dry
      > > > > > > > strips in the warm, tropical waters. This is where the
      > > > counter
      > > > > > > blows.
      > > > > > > > Or dulldrums at worst. This makes for good fair weather
      > > > > voltages
      > > > > > > > positive 250 volts to ground. Induction, IOW, offers
      > > nothing
      > > > > more
      > > > > > > to
      > > > > > > > impedance.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > If you have very warm waters and induction from west to
      > > east
      > > > > > these
      > > > > > > > waters will really be good proton catchers. That leaves
      > > > > electrons
      > > > > > > in
      > > > > > > > the ionosphere for the ITCZ. Or Doran waves.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > Further, coriolis will help define the inner EMF
      dynamic
      > of
      > > > > the
      > > > > > TS
      > > > > > > > itself.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > Finally, landfalling brings about EMF questions of EMF
      > > > > potentials
      > > > > > > > between land and ocean and monsoons are their own EMF
      > > > > dynamics,
      > > > > > > which
      > > > > > > > can overcome the gyres/counter EMFs dynamics.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > Understand we are talking about HUGE IR values under
      > > cirrus.
      > > > > No
      > > > > > > EMF,
      > > > > > > > no cirrus, no warm core lows.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > +++++
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > I would additionally add that the jet stream is going
      to
      > > > cause
      > > > > > EMF
      > > > > > > > instability as well as air pressure instability, and
      that
      > > EMF
      > > > > > > > instability is more why storms occur along the jets, as
      > dry
      > > > > > > > lines/patches/strips meeting areas of conductivity
      means
      > > that
      > > > > > youll
      > > > > > > > have areas where cirrus are enhanced toward the
      > ionosphere
      > > in
      > > > > a
      > > > > > > VERY
      > > > > > > > strong manner and there won't be lack of negitive
      charges
      > > in
      > > > > the
      > > > > > > > ionosphere as there is so much positive to ground
      > voltages
      > > > all
      > > > > > > around
      > > > > > > > the place of instability. This means that you will have
      > IR
      > > > > values
      > > > > > > > under the cirrus that are very high and nearby air that
      > > > > doesn't
      > > > > > > > retain any heat and this spells for strong exchanges of
      > > > energy.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > This dynamic, from an EMF standpoint, differs from the
      > > > > tropical
      > > > > > > > storm, which has the negitive charges above the warm
      core
      > > > low,
      > > > > > with
      > > > > > > > positive charges above the cirrus, so positive that the
      > > upper
      > > > > > > clouds
      > > > > > > > can't ever reach the potential differences by
      themselves
      > > > being
      > > > > > more
      > > > > > > > positive yet, to discharge that difference with sprites
      > and
      > > > > > elves,
      > > > > > > > and hence they to move upwards, enhanced by the
      positive
      > > > > charges
      > > > > > > > around the eye. Near the eye it is interesting that
      > strike
      > > > > > > activity
      > > > > > > > is rare. That is because the upper clouds and
      ionosphere
      > > is
      > > > > so
      > > > > > > > positively charged that it is difficult to take more
      > > > electrons
      > > > > > > away,
      > > > > > > > even from the lower clouds toward a positively charged
      > > ocean
      > > > > > > surface.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > The ocean itself tends toward nuetral and basic pH,
      btw.
      > > > > Land,
      > > > > > > otoh,
      > > > > > > > will have a more acidic pH and more protons there for a
      > > > moving
      > > > > > > front
      > > > > > > > to move up to the high clouds from the ground. The
      > > > insulative
      > > > > > > > properties of hydrates and the pH of the oceans, of
      > course,
      > > > is
      > > > > > all
      > > > > > > > biologically connected, so one could see how waves
      coming
      > > off
      > > > > of
      > > > > > W.
      > > > > > > > Africa that mean biologically active as opposed to not
      > > active
      > > > > > could
      > > > > > > > die or not, become tropical or not, depending on those
      > > > > conditions.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > I first have to say I tend to get lost when it comes
      to
      > > > > > > > electricity.
      > > > > > > > > Are you then saying that given the earth's magnetic
      > > field,
      > > > > when
      > > > > > > the
      > > > > > > > > ocean currents move perpendicular across it east-
      west)
      > > this
      > > > > > will
      > > > > > > > > create an electrical current. The voltage of this
      > > > > electricial
      > > > > > > > current
      > > > > > > > > would then be equal to electrical current times the
      > > > > Impedence
      > > > > > > > > (resistance)??
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > Fred
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart"
      <mike@u...>
      > > > wrote:
      > > > > > > > > > is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the
      > currents
      > > > > > involved
      > > > > > > > are
      > > > > > > > > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the
      context
      > of
      > > > > the
      > > > > > > > earth's
      > > > > > > > > > EMF.
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > There is a great example right now in the Pacific
      as
      > > the
      > > > > SOI
      > > > > > is
      > > > > > > > > near
      > > > > > > > > > zero and pressures are VERY high in the equatorial
      > > > > regions.
      > > > > > > That
      > > > > > > > > > means FAIR WEATHER voltages positive to ground and
      > huge
      > > > > Doran
      > > > > > > > > waves.
      > > > > > > > > > Well, guess what? There are FOUR tropical features
      > in
      > > > the
      > > > > > > > Pacific--
      > > > > > > > > > two in the E. Pac and two in the W. Pac!
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > I also checked the TOA data and there remains a
      > > windless
      > > > > line
      > > > > > > mid
      > > > > > > > > > range.
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > Another interesting feature is that with the latest
      > > SSTs
      > > > > the
      > > > > > La
      > > > > > > > > Nina
      > > > > > > > > > 1, 2 continues to grow. Further, in the N. Pacific
      > the
      > > > > > waters
      > > > > > > > > there
      > > > > > > > > > are warm anomaly in the E. Pac where the canes
      start
      > > and
      > > > > that
      > > > > > > is
      > > > > > > > > why
      > > > > > > > > > those E. Pac storms are forming, then cooling the
      > SSTs
      > > > > that
      > > > > > > gyre
      > > > > > > > > > around and you have a future with cold anomalies
      even
      > > in
      > > > > 3, 4
      > > > > > > due
      > > > > > > > > to
      > > > > > > > > > this. YET, in the S. Pacific in the same region,
      > just
      > > > > south,
      > > > > > > > SSTS
      > > > > > > > > > are initinally cold gyring in from the Southern
      > Oceans
      > > > and
      > > > > > then
      > > > > > > > the
      > > > > > > > > > eddy gets warm anomally in the eddy coming back
      > because
      > > > > cold
      > > > > > > > means
      > > > > > > > > > less impeadance coming back for cirrus. This is
      > > CLEARLY
      > > > > > > > reflected
      > > > > > > > > in
      > > > > > > > > > the SST anomalies:
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > http://psbsgi1.nesdis.noaa.gov:8080/PSB/EPS/SST/climo.html
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > Another feature to see is the cold anomalies in the
      > > > > > Carribean.
      > > > > > > > > That
      > > > > > > > > > is because if you think about it, as it is July
      that
      > is
      > > > > the
      > > > > > > same
      > > > > > > > as
      > > > > > > > > > January for the N. Hemisphere. For the semi
      tropical
      > > > > regions
      > > > > > > > that
      > > > > > > > > > means early spring. Now, if there are DAMS now on
      > the
      > > > > > Orinoco
      > > > > > > as
      > > > > > > > > the
      > > > > > > > > > winter snows in the mountains start to melt and the
      > > > spring
      > > > > > > rains
      > > > > > > > > > come, and dams capture those early flows, hydrology
      > is
      > > > > > plugged,
      > > > > > > > > guess
      > > > > > > > > > what? The Carribean becomes Gaia unhealthy. EMF
      > > > > impeadance
      > > > > > is
      > > > > > > > > > reduced there from the biological conditions. This
      > is
      > > > > true
      > > > > > > > whether
      > > > > > > > > > we are talking about hydrate fields near the
      Orinoco
      > or
      > > > pH
      > > > > > > > levels.
      > > > > > > > > > Now, check out the SST anomalies there! Cold!
      This
      > is
      > > > > how
      > > > > > the
      > > > > > > > > > season shifts, my friends.
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > We have both a La Nina making mechanism in the E.
      Pac
      > > and
      > > > > a
      > > > > > > delay
      > > > > > > > > in
      > > > > > > > > > hydrology in the Carribean working full on right
      now,
      > > > > making
      > > > > > > > > > conditions EMF poor for tropical storms. OTOH,
      waves
      > > > > coming
      > > > > > > out
      > > > > > > > of
      > > > > > > > > > Africa are starting to feel the BENEFIT of delays
      of
      > > > > > hydrology
      > > > > > > > from
      > > > > > > > > > West Africa dams and hydrology changes. (I haven't
      > been
      > > > > able
      > > > > > to
      > > > > > > > > > figure out quite yet what the even MORE recent
      > changes
      > > to
      > > > > the
      > > > > > > > > > Amazon's hydrology means, but if you look in the
      > delta
      > > > and
      > > > > > > > > extending
      > > > > > > > > > out there, there also are cold anamolies matching,
      > > again,
      > > > > > their
      > > > > > > > > early
      > > > > > > > > > spring. Africa had cold anomalies in early March,
      > > > > matching
      > > > > > > their
      > > > > > > > > > spring.
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > It is later in the fall (shifting season) when
      there
      > is
      > > a
      > > > > > match
      > > > > > > > of
      > > > > > > > > > the delayed hydrology of the South American
      > conditions
      > > w/
      > > > > the
      > > > > > > > West
      > > > > > > > > > African conditions that we see the season actually
      > > taking
      > > > > > > form.
      > > > > > > > > This
      > > > > > > > > > happens to corresponded to the asymetric changes by
      > > > > > hemisphere
      > > > > > > > that
      > > > > > > > > > are occurring in the Pacific, when Doran waves have
      > > > really
      > > > > > come
      > > > > > > > > > strong from the E. Pac and you have that resulting
      > warm
      > > > > > anomaly
      > > > > > > > > area
      > > > > > > > > > by Panama. That is why we have, from an EMF
      > > standpoint,
      > > > > had
      > > > > > > > Mitch,
      > > > > > > > > > Kevin, Iris, Caracus 1999, Michelle, and will have
      > > > another
      > > > > > > Mitch
      > > > > > > > > like
      > > > > > > > > > storm LATER in the year.
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > With no SOx event from a volcano which drop phase
      > > change
      > > > > > > > > temperatures
      > > > > > > > > > of cirrus, we can also be sure that this storm(s)
      > will
      > > > > stall
      > > > > > > and
      > > > > > > > > > flood.
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx
      > <no_reply@y...>
      > > > > wrote:
      > > > > > > > > > > How could warmer waters mean colder SSTs???
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > "Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans
      > result
      > > > in
      > > > > > more
      > > > > > > > > > > induction both for and against cirrus, which
      alters
      > > > > SSTs,
      > > > > > and
      > > > > > > > in
      > > > > > > > > > this
      > > > > > > > > > > case,since the circumpoler around Antarctica
      moves
      > > from
      > > > > > west
      > > > > > > to
      > > > > > > > > > east
      > > > > > > > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs"...
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > Nevermind that I still see no strong evidence
      that
      > > > > > electrical
      > > > > > > > > > > currents induced by ocean currents have any
      > > measurable
      > > > > > effect
      > > > > > > > on
      > > > > > > > > > > cirrus clouds. IMHO, any currents are too weak to
      > be
      > > > > > > > significant.
      > > > > > > > > > > Fred
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart"
      > > <mike@u...>
      > > > > > wrote:
      > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.spacedaily.com/news/climate-02y.html
      > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > "In the Science paper, the El Nino-like
      > conditions
      > > > > > > correspond
      > > > > > > > > to
      > > > > > > > > > > the
      > > > > > > > > > > > cold period. This is actually rather
      surprising,"
      > > > > Poulsen
      > > > > > > > > > > said. "Most
      > > > > > > > > > > > climate scientists would have guessed that the
      > cold
      > > > > > periods
      > > > > > > > > would
      > > > > > > > > > > > correspond to La Nina-like conditions. So, it
      is
      > > > clear
      > > > > > that
      > > > > > > > we
      > > > > > > > > > > don't
      > > > > > > > > > > > completely understand the physics that control
      > the
      > > > > > tropical
      > > > > > > > > > climate
      > > > > > > > > > > > variability between warm and cold periods."
      > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > Comment:
      > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > What is occurring is much like the colder
      oceans,
      > > > post
      > > > > > Mt.
      > > > > > > > > > Pinatubo
      > > > > > > > > > > > and pre flaring cycle peak of 1997 and oceans
      of
      > > now.
      > > > > > > > > > > > Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans
      > result
      > > > in
      > > > > > more
      > > > > > > > > > > induction
      > > > > > > > > > > > both for and against cirrus, which alters SSTs,
      > and
      > > > in
      > > > > > this
      > > > > > > > > case,
      > > > > > > > > > > > since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves
      > from
      > > > > west
      > > > > > to
      > > > > > > > east
      > > > > > > > > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs, and these SSTs
      > > gyre
      > > > > > around
      > > > > > > > and
      > > > > > > > > > > > create La Nina or La Nada, not El Nino. OTOH,
      > with
      > > > > > > relatively
      > > > > > > > > > > cooler
      > > > > > > > > > > > waters in 1997, as flaring began to occur and
      the
      > > air
      > > > > > > cleared
      > > > > > > > > of
      > > > > > > > > > > SOx,
      > > > > > > > > > > > the colder oceans inducted less AGAINST cirrus
      in
      > > the
      > > > > > > > Southern
      > > > > > > > > > > Oceans
      > > > > > > > > > > > and this resulted in warm SSTs, which gyred
      > around
      > > to
      > > > > > give
      > > > > > > us
      > > > > > > > > the
      > > > > > > > > > > > largest El Nino in at least 500 years.
      > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > The latest satellite data for the lower
      > troposphere:
      > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > Global trend per decade = +0.064°C, (Northern
      > > > > Hemisphere
      > > > > > =
      > > > > > > > > +0.136°
      > > > > > > > > > > C,
      > > > > > > > > > > > Southern Hemisphere = - 0.008°C.)
      > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > Global June 2002 = + 0.2°C, (Northern
      Hemisphere
      > =
      > > > > +0.217°
      > > > > > > C,
      > > > > > > > > > > Southern
      > > > > > > > > > > > Hemisphere = +0.183°C.)
      > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > The asymetry between hemisphere is DIRECTLY
      > related
      > > > to
      > > > > > what
      > > > > > > > > > warming
      > > > > > > > > > > > oceans mean to EMFs and cirrus--in that the
      > > Southern
      > > > > > > Ocean's
      > > > > > > > > > added
      > > > > > > > > > > > input of a current that moves so strongly from
      > west
      > > > to
      > > > > > east
      > > > > > > > > > around
      > > > > > > > > > > > Antarctica. A warmer inducter of the oceans
      > inducts
      > > > > > better,
      > > > > > > > and
      > > > > > > > > > in
      > > > > > > > > > > > this case, warmer for the northern hemisphere's
      > > > oceans
      > > > > > > means
      > > > > > > > on
      > > > > > > > > > > > balance there is more induction for cirrus due
      to
      > > > > current
      > > > > > > > > > > direction .
      > > > > > > > > > > > . .
    • pawnfart
      ... The ITCZ--yes. What happens is that relatively speaking underneath where there WAS the convection in Western Africa, the positive charges that attracted
      Message 2 of 17 , Aug 1, 2002
      • 0 Attachment
        > <<"And if so, it makes the charge on the front more what?">> You
        > lost me here - what front? Do you mean the ITCZ?

        The ITCZ--yes. What happens is that relatively speaking underneath
        where there WAS the convection in Western Africa, the positive
        charges that attracted the electron concentration, in a capacitive
        manner, are no longer there. That means these electrons
        concentrations will move (repelled by themselves, attracted to other
        positive cloud tops). In this case, they move along the ITCZ to
        reach a similar equillibrium as that which occurred over the
        convective cloud cover.

        I am not the only one interested in this theory. Check out this:

        http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/07/31/earth.rays/index.html

        Report: Cosmic rays influence climate change
        July 31, 2002 Posted: 9:26 AM EDT (1326 GMT)

        By Richard Stenger

        (CNN) -- The Earth has experienced higher surface but not atmospheric
        temperatures in recent decades. Now a climate scientist thinks he
        knows why: highly charged particles originating beyond the solar
        system.

        The inconsistencies in ground and air temperature patterns have led
        some scientists to dismiss the idea that global warming is taking
        place.

        But one New York researcher suggests the discrepancy takes place
        because of the effect of interstellar cosmic rays on cloud coverage.
        Other climate scientists have proposed a link between cosmic rays and
        clouds.

        Research professor Fangqun Yu of the State University of New York-
        Albany goes further, proposing that low and high altitude clouds
        react differently to the rays, contributing to greater thermostat
        gaps near the surface and higher in the atmosphere.

        The number of cosmic rays that strike Earth depends to some degree on
        the sun. Solar winds, which can protect the Earth from the
        interstellar rays, vary in intensity as the sun waxes and wanes in
        intensity, according to Yu.

        "A systematic change in global cloud cover will change the
        atmospheric heating profile," he said in a statement this week.

        "In other words, the cosmic ray-induced global cloud changes could be
        the long-sought mechanism connecting solar and climate variability."

        Yu said that observations of global warming this century have
        corresponded with lowered cosmic ray intensities.

        The hypothesis does not disregard man-made contributions to climate
        change. Greenhouse gases introduced by humans could affect the cosmic
        ray-cloud interactions, he said.

        In any case, Yu proposes that cosmic rays help stoke the formation of
        dense clouds in the lower atmosphere while having a little or
        negative affect on cloud cover in the upper atmosphere.

        The low clouds retain more surface energy, keeping the surrounding
        air hot, while thin high clouds reflect more sunlight into space,
        keeping the upper atmosphere cooler.

        Satellite data offer evidence consistent with the hypothesis, which
        Yu presents in the July issue of the Journal of Geophysical Research-
        Space Physics.

        +++++++

        Comments:

        What I want you to notice is the author of this research has NO EMF
        training directly--he is an atmospheric scientist. Further, and more
        importantly, he has NO BIOLOGY in his background. Most of these
        scholars are highly specialized on the edge of their kens--and the
        cross thinking just isn't there:

        http://www.albany.edu/~yfq/resume_txt.html

        EDUCATION

        1998 Ph.D., Atmospheric Sciences, University of California
        at Los Angeles
        1996 M.S., Atmospheric Sciences, University of California
        at Los Angeles
        1994 M.S., Atmospheric Physics, Institute of Atmospheric
        Physics, China
        1991 B.S., Atmospheric Sciences, Peking University, China

        PROFESSIONAL ACTIVITIES, AWARDS, HONORS

        Invited to give a review talk on the Effect of Galactic Cosmic
        Rays on Aerosol
        Nucleation, Workshop on Ion-Aerosol-Cloud Interactions, CERN,
        Geneva,
        Switzerland, April18-20, 2001.
        (http://cloud.web.cern.ch/cloud/iaci_workshop)

        Publications:

        Yu, F. and R. P. Turco, From molecular clusters to nanoparticles: The
        role of ambient ionization in tropospheric aerosol formation, J.
        Geophys. Res., 106, 4797-4814, 2001.

        ++++++++++

        My point is that the experts are starting to see the EMF, as, for
        instance B-1 and I have been documenting for over a year now, but
        what isn't occurring is the connection between this physical forcing
        and the stability of "climate" which can only come from modulation.

        Here are some additional links from the P. Sciences side of this:

        http://ae.atmos.uah.edu/AE/ams_2001b.html

        The SPECIAL workshop is entitled: "Space Weather and the Earth's
        Weather and Climate: Links between solar activity, magnetospheric
        variability, clouds, thunderstorms, and lightning." The workshop
        hosts three distinct thematic groups which are working on :

        (1) Global Atmospheric Electric Circuit

        (2) Charged Particle Fluxes, Events, and Statistics and

        (3) Sprites and Lightning.

        During the workshop, distinct introductory review lectures will be
        given and an extended poster session will be held for discussion and
        planning of future research. For more detailed information on the
        SPECIAL goals, registration forms, and recent announcements, check
        out

        http://www.atmospheric-electricity.org/newsletters/2001fall/research-
        activity.html

        http://www.sgo.fi/SPECIAL/

        http://www.atmospheric-electricity.org/newsletters/2001fall/research-
        activity.html







        >
        >
        >
        > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
        > > Okay. If a neg charge accumulates at one end of a capacitor,
        what
        > > happens to the charge on the other end?
        > >
        > > Say a wave rolls of the coast of Africa and it brings negitive
        > > charges to the ionosphere along the ITCZ. And quickly that
        charge
        > > spreads along the ITCZ all the way to South America, and in this
        > > case, over the past day or so, all the way to the E. Pac.
        > > Underneath, the charge will have a tendency to be what? And if
        so,
        > > it makes the charge on the front more what? And so over the
        > > equatorial zones where there is fair weather, what charges will
        the
        > > ionosphere there become? Doran waves move by capacitance--hence
        > > impedence is the measure of the oceans behavior . . .
        > >
        > > ++++++++++++++++++++++
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Below is a great link on dust.
        > >
        > > I think it really shows how EMFs are involved w/ the waves as the
        > dry
        > > air has your positive voltage to ground and really charges the
        dust
        > > and makes them suspend whereas the water vaper in the the air
        takes
        > > away that charge and causes the dust to drop by gravity.
        > >
        > > Where you can really see the EMF/Gaia is as that dust wave goes
        > near
        > > our Florida West Keys area and gets broken up but then sort of
        > > reforms along the Texas coast . . .
        > >
        > > The final set of frames is interesting, too, from an EMF stand
        > point.
        > > What I want everyone to notice is how when that wave comes off
        the
        > > African coast it electrifies the entire Atlantic and connects w/
        > the
        > > Pacific in a straight line. No waves, IOW, because the EMF
        contrast
        > > between the dry strip of the counter and equator and the wet area
        > is
        > > so grand. But in the process of moving like that, I suspect it
        can
        > > cause instability.
        > >
        > > The SOI right now is flat zero w/ no TS activity anywhere.
        > >
        > > Understand it is very early spring for the Southern Hemisphere
        and
        > no
        > > hydrology is going to the ocean biosphere in the Carribean to
        speak
        > > of. Typically, we would start to see some hydrology in September,
        > as
        > > someone here reminded us. BUT, with the dams, another story!
        > >
        > > With all these new sats and this new understanding of EMFs, folks
        > > here are going to get a free intellectual ride that doesn't come
        > > often in life. Strap up. It's going to be fun. When this becomes
        > more
        > > mainstream, you can tell your grand kids you were there when it
        all
        > > started.
        > >
        > >
        > > http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/tropic/real-
        > > time/wavetrak/movies/atlsal/atlsalwavejava5.html
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
        > > > Capacitors store electricity and block the flow of Direct
        > Current.
        > > I
        > > > understand it to be two electric conductors separated by a
        > > > nonconductor of electric current.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
        > > > > I totally agree that this is true--but disagree what I think
        > you
        > > > may
        > > > > be trying to say.
        > > > >
        > > > > Strikes over a TS would be like a leaking capaciter.
        > > > >
        > > > > Do you know how a capaciter works?
        > > > >
        > > > > Put it this way--what do you think the charge of the surface
        > > under
        > > > an
        > > > > eye is if the ionosphere carries a huge negitive charge?
        What
        > > kind
        > > > > of electrons will be favored on the surface? What charge
        will
        > be
        > > > > repelled and what attracted?
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
        > > > > > RE: The huge voltages of electrons over the eye:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > "Surprisingly, not much lightning occurs in the inner core
        > > > (within
        > > > > > about 100 km or 60 mi) of the tropical cyclone center. Only
        > > > around
        > > > > a
        > > > > > dozen or less cloud-to-ground strikes per hour occur around
        > the
        > > > > > eyewall of the storm...."
        > > > > >
        > > > > > http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/tcfaq/G10.html
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...>
        wrote:
        > > > > > > have been observed, Fred.
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > And yes, it is a wave feature. Capacitance, for
        instance,
        > > > works
        > > > > > > between the ionosphere, which is conductive to direct
        > > currents,
        > > > > > and
        > > > > >
        > > > > > "> the oceans, which is also conductive, BUT the air is
        > > > insulative--
        > > > > > just
        > > > > > > like a capaciter--which is thus able to communicate waves
        > but
        > > > not
        > > > > > > DC. Get it?
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...>
        > wrote:
        > > > > > > > <<"LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical systems
        > are
        > > > > > > > electrical.">>
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > I am not sure what you mean here. As far as I remember,
        > > > > tropical
        > > > > > > > storms have less electrical energy (fewer lightning
        > strikes)
        > > > > than
        > > > > > > > would be expected. I understand the reason has to do
        with
        > > the
        > > > > > low
        > > > > > > > level air temps being high and that this does not allow
        a
        > > > large
        > > > > > > > enough zone of below freezing temps in the upper clouds
        > to
        > > > > > produce
        > > > > > > > the electical charge separation. The result is heavier
        > > > rainfall
        > > > > > but
        > > > > > > > less lightning discharges.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > Fred
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...>
        > > wrote:
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx
        <no_reply@y...>
        > > > wrote:
        > > > > > > > > > <<"is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the
        > > currents
        > > > > > > involved
        > > > > > > > > are
        > > > > > > > > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the
        context
        > of
        > > > the
        > > > > > > > earth's
        > > > > > > > > > EMF.">>
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > Current = Voltage/Impedence which implies that
        > > impedance
        > > > is
        > > > > > =
        > > > > > > or
        > > > > > > > > > similar to resistance?
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > Yes it is. It INCLUDES resistance. Capacitance.
        > > > Inductance.
        > > > > > > > Hence,
        > > > > > > > > SSTs is part of its measure.
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > I am not sure what you mean by "NOT just the
        earth's
        > > EMF
        > > > > but
        > > > > > > > > currents
        > > > > > > > > > in the context of earth's EMF's???
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > As you know, I have put up this link to an abstract
        > about
        > > > > > > > measurable
        > > > > > > > > induction by ocean currents:
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > http://www.gfdl.gov/~gth/netscape/1992/dbs9201.html
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > BUT, this is merely what ocean currents are like in
        the
        > > > > > context
        > > > > > > of
        > > > > > > > > the earth's EMF and ignores the "noise" of other
        EMFs.
        > > > What
        > > > > I
        > > > > > am
        > > > > > > > > saying is that when a strike occurs this itself has
        an
        > > EMF
        > > > in
        > > > > > > that
        > > > > > > > > locality and for that short period, with itself is
        > > > ORGANIZED
        > > > > > in
        > > > > > > the
        > > > > > > > > context of the earth's EMF. Hence, direction of
        > current
        > > > for
        > > > > > > these
        > > > > > > > > outliners or noise is going to be more significant
        > > because
        > > > we
        > > > > > are
        > > > > > > > > dealing with larger EMFs. Just by itself, the
        earth's
        > > EMF
        > > > is
        > > > > > > > fairly
        > > > > > > > > small, so the induction off of it is likewise small.
        > But
        > > > in
        > > > > > the
        > > > > > > > > context of upper atmospheric EMFs then the direction
        of
        > > > ocean
        > > > > > > > > currents start to matter for their inductive
        properties
        > > > > > depending
        > > > > > > > on
        > > > > > > > > their direction. THEN, this induction sums to be
        > > > significant
        > > > > > the
        > > > > > > > > inductance subpart of impedence. Hence, when a Doran
        > > wave
        > > > > > goes
        > > > > > > > > through the pulse of ions is met with a varying EMF
        > > > condition!
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > In this context here is from TWC where a poster was
        > > > > commenting
        > > > > > on
        > > > > > > > why
        > > > > > > > > in the N. Atlantic TS development won't go toward the
        > > > equator
        > > > > > and
        > > > > > > > my
        > > > > > > > > response:
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > ". . . then it's the ITCZ position that is limiting
        > > > > > development.
        > > > > > > > NOT
        > > > > > > > > Coriolois. Coriolois is exactly equal at the same
        > > latitudes
        > > > > > all
        > > > > > > > over
        > > > > > > > > the world, 365 days a year. If it was Coriolois
        > limiting
        > > > > > > > development
        > > > > > > > > in the CV region in the North Atlantic, it
        > > > wouldn't "Change"
        > > > > > > during
        > > > > > > > > the year."
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > "What makes the North Atlantic unusual is the
        > dependence
        > > of
        > > > > > > > formation
        > > > > > > > > of storms on the African Easterly Jet (AEJ); it
        simply
        > > > never
        > > > > > gets
        > > > > > > > > that far south to spit out a perturbation that far
        > south."
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > My response:
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > YES coriolis is important, but not for the reasons so
        > far
        > > > > > stated.
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical systems
        are
        > > > > > > electrical.
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > Doran waves are critical to this EMF dynamic, and
        that
        > > > means
        > > > > > dry
        > > > > > > > > strips in the warm, tropical waters. This is where
        the
        > > > > counter
        > > > > > > > blows.
        > > > > > > > > Or dulldrums at worst. This makes for good fair
        weather
        > > > > > voltages
        > > > > > > > > positive 250 volts to ground. Induction, IOW, offers
        > > > nothing
        > > > > > more
        > > > > > > > to
        > > > > > > > > impedance.
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > If you have very warm waters and induction from west
        to
        > > > east
        > > > > > > these
        > > > > > > > > waters will really be good proton catchers. That
        leaves
        > > > > > electrons
        > > > > > > > in
        > > > > > > > > the ionosphere for the ITCZ. Or Doran waves.
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > Further, coriolis will help define the inner EMF
        > dynamic
        > > of
        > > > > > the
        > > > > > > TS
        > > > > > > > > itself.
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > Finally, landfalling brings about EMF questions of
        EMF
        > > > > > potentials
        > > > > > > > > between land and ocean and monsoons are their own EMF
        > > > > > dynamics,
        > > > > > > > which
        > > > > > > > > can overcome the gyres/counter EMFs dynamics.
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > Understand we are talking about HUGE IR values under
        > > > cirrus.
        > > > > > No
        > > > > > > > EMF,
        > > > > > > > > no cirrus, no warm core lows.
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > +++++
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > I would additionally add that the jet stream is going
        > to
        > > > > cause
        > > > > > > EMF
        > > > > > > > > instability as well as air pressure instability, and
        > that
        > > > EMF
        > > > > > > > > instability is more why storms occur along the jets,
        as
        > > dry
        > > > > > > > > lines/patches/strips meeting areas of conductivity
        > means
        > > > that
        > > > > > > youll
        > > > > > > > > have areas where cirrus are enhanced toward the
        > > ionosphere
        > > > in
        > > > > > a
        > > > > > > > VERY
        > > > > > > > > strong manner and there won't be lack of negitive
        > charges
        > > > in
        > > > > > the
        > > > > > > > > ionosphere as there is so much positive to ground
        > > voltages
        > > > > all
        > > > > > > > around
        > > > > > > > > the place of instability. This means that you will
        have
        > > IR
        > > > > > values
        > > > > > > > > under the cirrus that are very high and nearby air
        that
        > > > > > doesn't
        > > > > > > > > retain any heat and this spells for strong exchanges
        of
        > > > > energy.
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > This dynamic, from an EMF standpoint, differs from
        the
        > > > > > tropical
        > > > > > > > > storm, which has the negitive charges above the warm
        > core
        > > > > low,
        > > > > > > with
        > > > > > > > > positive charges above the cirrus, so positive that
        the
        > > > upper
        > > > > > > > clouds
        > > > > > > > > can't ever reach the potential differences by
        > themselves
        > > > > being
        > > > > > > more
        > > > > > > > > positive yet, to discharge that difference with
        sprites
        > > and
        > > > > > > elves,
        > > > > > > > > and hence they to move upwards, enhanced by the
        > positive
        > > > > > charges
        > > > > > > > > around the eye. Near the eye it is interesting that
        > > strike
        > > > > > > > activity
        > > > > > > > > is rare. That is because the upper clouds and
        > ionosphere
        > > > is
        > > > > > so
        > > > > > > > > positively charged that it is difficult to take more
        > > > > electrons
        > > > > > > > away,
        > > > > > > > > even from the lower clouds toward a positively
        charged
        > > > ocean
        > > > > > > > surface.
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > The ocean itself tends toward nuetral and basic pH,
        > btw.
        > > > > > Land,
        > > > > > > > otoh,
        > > > > > > > > will have a more acidic pH and more protons there for
        a
        > > > > moving
        > > > > > > > front
        > > > > > > > > to move up to the high clouds from the ground. The
        > > > > insulative
        > > > > > > > > properties of hydrates and the pH of the oceans, of
        > > course,
        > > > > is
        > > > > > > all
        > > > > > > > > biologically connected, so one could see how waves
        > coming
        > > > off
        > > > > > of
        > > > > > > W.
        > > > > > > > > Africa that mean biologically active as opposed to
        not
        > > > active
        > > > > > > could
        > > > > > > > > die or not, become tropical or not, depending on
        those
        > > > > > conditions.
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > I first have to say I tend to get lost when it
        comes
        > to
        > > > > > > > > electricity.
        > > > > > > > > > Are you then saying that given the earth's magnetic
        > > > field,
        > > > > > when
        > > > > > > > the
        > > > > > > > > > ocean currents move perpendicular across it east-
        > west)
        > > > this
        > > > > > > will
        > > > > > > > > > create an electrical current. The voltage of this
        > > > > > electricial
        > > > > > > > > current
        > > > > > > > > > would then be equal to electrical current times the
        > > > > > Impedence
        > > > > > > > > > (resistance)??
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > Fred
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart"
        > <mike@u...>
        > > > > wrote:
        > > > > > > > > > > is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the
        > > currents
        > > > > > > involved
        > > > > > > > > are
        > > > > > > > > > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the
        > context
        > > of
        > > > > > the
        > > > > > > > > earth's
        > > > > > > > > > > EMF.
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > There is a great example right now in the Pacific
        > as
        > > > the
        > > > > > SOI
        > > > > > > is
        > > > > > > > > > near
        > > > > > > > > > > zero and pressures are VERY high in the
        equatorial
        > > > > > regions.
        > > > > > > > That
        > > > > > > > > > > means FAIR WEATHER voltages positive to ground
        and
        > > huge
        > > > > > Doran
        > > > > > > > > > waves.
        > > > > > > > > > > Well, guess what? There are FOUR tropical
        features
        > > in
        > > > > the
        > > > > > > > > Pacific--
        > > > > > > > > > > two in the E. Pac and two in the W. Pac!
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > I also checked the TOA data and there remains a
        > > > windless
        > > > > > line
        > > > > > > > mid
        > > > > > > > > > > range.
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > Another interesting feature is that with the
        latest
        > > > SSTs
        > > > > > the
        > > > > > > La
        > > > > > > > > > Nina
        > > > > > > > > > > 1, 2 continues to grow. Further, in the N.
        Pacific
        > > the
        > > > > > > waters
        > > > > > > > > > there
        > > > > > > > > > > are warm anomaly in the E. Pac where the canes
        > start
        > > > and
        > > > > > that
        > > > > > > > is
        > > > > > > > > > why
        > > > > > > > > > > those E. Pac storms are forming, then cooling the
        > > SSTs
        > > > > > that
        > > > > > > > gyre
        > > > > > > > > > > around and you have a future with cold anomalies
        > even
        > > > in
        > > > > > 3, 4
        > > > > > > > due
        > > > > > > > > > to
        > > > > > > > > > > this. YET, in the S. Pacific in the same region,
        > > just
        > > > > > south,
        > > > > > > > > SSTS
        > > > > > > > > > > are initinally cold gyring in from the Southern
        > > Oceans
        > > > > and
        > > > > > > then
        > > > > > > > > the
        > > > > > > > > > > eddy gets warm anomally in the eddy coming back
        > > because
        > > > > > cold
        > > > > > > > > means
        > > > > > > > > > > less impeadance coming back for cirrus. This is
        > > > CLEARLY
        > > > > > > > > reflected
        > > > > > > > > > in
        > > > > > > > > > > the SST anomalies:
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > http://psbsgi1.nesdis.noaa.gov:8080/PSB/EPS/SST/climo.html
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > Another feature to see is the cold anomalies in
        the
        > > > > > > Carribean.
        > > > > > > > > > That
        > > > > > > > > > > is because if you think about it, as it is July
        > that
        > > is
        > > > > > the
        > > > > > > > same
        > > > > > > > > as
        > > > > > > > > > > January for the N. Hemisphere. For the semi
        > tropical
        > > > > > regions
        > > > > > > > > that
        > > > > > > > > > > means early spring. Now, if there are DAMS now
        on
        > > the
        > > > > > > Orinoco
        > > > > > > > as
        > > > > > > > > > the
        > > > > > > > > > > winter snows in the mountains start to melt and
        the
        > > > > spring
        > > > > > > > rains
        > > > > > > > > > > come, and dams capture those early flows,
        hydrology
        > > is
        > > > > > > plugged,
        > > > > > > > > > guess
        > > > > > > > > > > what? The Carribean becomes Gaia unhealthy. EMF
        > > > > > impeadance
        > > > > > > is
        > > > > > > > > > > reduced there from the biological conditions.
        This
        > > is
        > > > > > true
        > > > > > > > > whether
        > > > > > > > > > > we are talking about hydrate fields near the
        > Orinoco
        > > or
        > > > > pH
        > > > > > > > > levels.
        > > > > > > > > > > Now, check out the SST anomalies there! Cold!
        > This
        > > is
        > > > > > how
        > > > > > > the
        > > > > > > > > > > season shifts, my friends.
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > We have both a La Nina making mechanism in the E.
        > Pac
        > > > and
        > > > > > a
        > > > > > > > delay
        > > > > > > > > > in
        > > > > > > > > > > hydrology in the Carribean working full on right
        > now,
        > > > > > making
        > > > > > > > > > > conditions EMF poor for tropical storms. OTOH,
        > waves
        > > > > > coming
        > > > > > > > out
        > > > > > > > > of
        > > > > > > > > > > Africa are starting to feel the BENEFIT of delays
        > of
        > > > > > > hydrology
        > > > > > > > > from
        > > > > > > > > > > West Africa dams and hydrology changes. (I
        haven't
        > > been
        > > > > > able
        > > > > > > to
        > > > > > > > > > > figure out quite yet what the even MORE recent
        > > changes
        > > > to
        > > > > > the
        > > > > > > > > > > Amazon's hydrology means, but if you look in the
        > > delta
        > > > > and
        > > > > > > > > > extending
        > > > > > > > > > > out there, there also are cold anamolies
        matching,
        > > > again,
        > > > > > > their
        > > > > > > > > > early
        > > > > > > > > > > spring. Africa had cold anomalies in early
        March,
        > > > > > matching
        > > > > > > > their
        > > > > > > > > > > spring.
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > It is later in the fall (shifting season) when
        > there
        > > is
        > > > a
        > > > > > > match
        > > > > > > > > of
        > > > > > > > > > > the delayed hydrology of the South American
        > > conditions
        > > > w/
        > > > > > the
        > > > > > > > > West
        > > > > > > > > > > African conditions that we see the season
        actually
        > > > taking
        > > > > > > > form.
        > > > > > > > > > This
        > > > > > > > > > > happens to corresponded to the asymetric changes
        by
        > > > > > > hemisphere
        > > > > > > > > that
        > > > > > > > > > > are occurring in the Pacific, when Doran waves
        have
        > > > > really
        > > > > > > come
        > > > > > > > > > > strong from the E. Pac and you have that
        resulting
        > > warm
        > > > > > > anomaly
        > > > > > > > > > area
        > > > > > > > > > > by Panama. That is why we have, from an EMF
        > > > standpoint,
        > > > > > had
        > > > > > > > > Mitch,
        > > > > > > > > > > Kevin, Iris, Caracus 1999, Michelle, and will
        have
        > > > > another
        > > > > > > > Mitch
        > > > > > > > > > like
        > > > > > > > > > > storm LATER in the year.
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > With no SOx event from a volcano which drop phase
        > > > change
        > > > > > > > > > temperatures
        > > > > > > > > > > of cirrus, we can also be sure that this storm(s)
        > > will
        > > > > > stall
        > > > > > > > and
        > > > > > > > > > > flood.
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx
        > > <no_reply@y...>
        > > > > > wrote:
        > > > > > > > > > > > How could warmer waters mean colder SSTs???
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > "Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans
        > > result
        > > > > in
        > > > > > > more
        > > > > > > > > > > > induction both for and against cirrus, which
        > alters
        > > > > > SSTs,
        > > > > > > and
        > > > > > > > > in
        > > > > > > > > > > this
        > > > > > > > > > > > case,since the circumpoler around Antarctica
        > moves
        > > > from
        > > > > > > west
        > > > > > > > to
        > > > > > > > > > > east
        > > > > > > > > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs"...
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > Nevermind that I still see no strong evidence
        > that
        > > > > > > electrical
        > > > > > > > > > > > currents induced by ocean currents have any
        > > > measurable
        > > > > > > effect
        > > > > > > > > on
        > > > > > > > > > > > cirrus clouds. IMHO, any currents are too weak
        to
        > > be
        > > > > > > > > significant.
        > > > > > > > > > > > Fred
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart"
        > > > <mike@u...>
        > > > > > > wrote:
        > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.spacedaily.com/news/climate-
        02y.html
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > "In the Science paper, the El Nino-like
        > > conditions
        > > > > > > > correspond
        > > > > > > > > > to
        > > > > > > > > > > > the
        > > > > > > > > > > > > cold period. This is actually rather
        > surprising,"
        > > > > > Poulsen
        > > > > > > > > > > > said. "Most
        > > > > > > > > > > > > climate scientists would have guessed that
        the
        > > cold
        > > > > > > periods
        > > > > > > > > > would
        > > > > > > > > > > > > correspond to La Nina-like conditions. So, it
        > is
        > > > > clear
        > > > > > > that
        > > > > > > > > we
        > > > > > > > > > > > don't
        > > > > > > > > > > > > completely understand the physics that
        control
        > > the
        > > > > > > tropical
        > > > > > > > > > > climate
        > > > > > > > > > > > > variability between warm and cold periods."
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > Comment:
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > What is occurring is much like the colder
        > oceans,
        > > > > post
        > > > > > > Mt.
        > > > > > > > > > > Pinatubo
        > > > > > > > > > > > > and pre flaring cycle peak of 1997 and oceans
        > of
        > > > now.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans
        > > result
        > > > > in
        > > > > > > more
        > > > > > > > > > > > induction
        > > > > > > > > > > > > both for and against cirrus, which alters
        SSTs,
        > > and
        > > > > in
        > > > > > > this
        > > > > > > > > > case,
        > > > > > > > > > > > > since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves
        > > from
        > > > > > west
        > > > > > > to
        > > > > > > > > east
        > > > > > > > > > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs, and these
        SSTs
        > > > gyre
        > > > > > > around
        > > > > > > > > and
        > > > > > > > > > > > > create La Nina or La Nada, not El Nino. OTOH,
        > > with
        > > > > > > > relatively
        > > > > > > > > > > > cooler
        > > > > > > > > > > > > waters in 1997, as flaring began to occur and
        > the
        > > > air
        > > > > > > > cleared
        > > > > > > > > > of
        > > > > > > > > > > > SOx,
        > > > > > > > > > > > > the colder oceans inducted less AGAINST
        cirrus
        > in
        > > > the
        > > > > > > > > Southern
        > > > > > > > > > > > Oceans
        > > > > > > > > > > > > and this resulted in warm SSTs, which gyred
        > > around
        > > > to
        > > > > > > give
        > > > > > > > us
        > > > > > > > > > the
        > > > > > > > > > > > > largest El Nino in at least 500 years.
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > The latest satellite data for the lower
        > > troposphere:
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > Global trend per decade = +0.064°C, (Northern
        > > > > > Hemisphere
        > > > > > > =
        > > > > > > > > > +0.136°
        > > > > > > > > > > > C,
        > > > > > > > > > > > > Southern Hemisphere = - 0.008°C.)
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > Global June 2002 = + 0.2°C, (Northern
        > Hemisphere
        > > =
        > > > > > +0.217°
        > > > > > > > C,
        > > > > > > > > > > > Southern
        > > > > > > > > > > > > Hemisphere = +0.183°C.)
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > The asymetry between hemisphere is DIRECTLY
        > > related
        > > > > to
        > > > > > > what
        > > > > > > > > > > warming
        > > > > > > > > > > > > oceans mean to EMFs and cirrus--in that the
        > > > Southern
        > > > > > > > Ocean's
        > > > > > > > > > > added
        > > > > > > > > > > > > input of a current that moves so strongly
        from
        > > west
        > > > > to
        > > > > > > east
        > > > > > > > > > > around
        > > > > > > > > > > > > Antarctica. A warmer inducter of the oceans
        > > inducts
        > > > > > > better,
        > > > > > > > > and
        > > > > > > > > > > in
        > > > > > > > > > > > > this case, warmer for the northern
        hemisphere's
        > > > > oceans
        > > > > > > > means
        > > > > > > > > on
        > > > > > > > > > > > > balance there is more induction for cirrus
        due
        > to
        > > > > > current
        > > > > > > > > > > > direction .
        > > > > > > > > > > > > . .
      • fredwx
        You are losing me again here. You said that underneath where there WAS the convection in Western Africa, the positive charges that attracted the electron
        Message 3 of 17 , Aug 2, 2002
        • 0 Attachment
          You are losing me again here.
          You said that "underneath where there WAS the convection in Western
          Africa, the positive charges that attracted the electron
          concentration, in a capacitive manner, are no longer there."

          Unerneath the convection over West Aftrica the thunderstorms will
          induce a positive charge on the ground in response to the negative
          charge in the lower portion of the clouds. The result is cloud to
          ground lightning. The stream of electrons channels downward from the
          cloud to the ground. As it nears the ground a positively charged
          channel meets it (return stroke?). What I understan you to mean is
          that after the discharges the ground and the lower cloud electical
          charges are neutralized. ????

          Then you said "That means these electrons concentrations will move
          (repelled by themselves, attracted to other positive cloud tops"

          I am lost here because I would think that the there would no longer
          be an electron concentration.

          anyway, I have said I am unsure when it comes to electricity.

          fred




          --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > > <<"And if so, it makes the charge on the front more what?">> You
          > > lost me here - what front? Do you mean the ITCZ?
          >
          > The ITCZ--yes. What happens is that relatively speaking underneath
          > where there WAS the convection in Western Africa, the positive
          > charges that attracted the electron concentration, in a capacitive
          > manner, are no longer there. That means these electrons
          > concentrations will move (repelled by themselves, attracted to
          other
          > positive cloud tops). In this case, they move along the ITCZ to
          > reach a similar equillibrium as that which occurred over the
          > convective cloud cover.
          >
          > I am not the only one interested in this theory. Check out this:
          >
          > http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/07/31/earth.rays/index.html
          >
          > Report: Cosmic rays influence climate change
          > July 31, 2002 Posted: 9:26 AM EDT (1326 GMT)
          >
          > By Richard Stenger
          >
          > (CNN) -- The Earth has experienced higher surface but not
          atmospheric
          > temperatures in recent decades. Now a climate scientist thinks he
          > knows why: highly charged particles originating beyond the solar
          > system.
          >
          > The inconsistencies in ground and air temperature patterns have led
          > some scientists to dismiss the idea that global warming is taking
          > place.
          >
          > But one New York researcher suggests the discrepancy takes place
          > because of the effect of interstellar cosmic rays on cloud
          coverage.
          > Other climate scientists have proposed a link between cosmic rays
          and
          > clouds.
          >
          > Research professor Fangqun Yu of the State University of New York-
          > Albany goes further, proposing that low and high altitude clouds
          > react differently to the rays, contributing to greater thermostat
          > gaps near the surface and higher in the atmosphere.
          >
          > The number of cosmic rays that strike Earth depends to some degree
          on
          > the sun. Solar winds, which can protect the Earth from the
          > interstellar rays, vary in intensity as the sun waxes and wanes in
          > intensity, according to Yu.
          >
          > "A systematic change in global cloud cover will change the
          > atmospheric heating profile," he said in a statement this week.
          >
          > "In other words, the cosmic ray-induced global cloud changes could
          be
          > the long-sought mechanism connecting solar and climate
          variability."
          >
          > Yu said that observations of global warming this century have
          > corresponded with lowered cosmic ray intensities.
          >
          > The hypothesis does not disregard man-made contributions to climate
          > change. Greenhouse gases introduced by humans could affect the
          cosmic
          > ray-cloud interactions, he said.
          >
          > In any case, Yu proposes that cosmic rays help stoke the formation
          of
          > dense clouds in the lower atmosphere while having a little or
          > negative affect on cloud cover in the upper atmosphere.
          >
          > The low clouds retain more surface energy, keeping the surrounding
          > air hot, while thin high clouds reflect more sunlight into space,
          > keeping the upper atmosphere cooler.
          >
          > Satellite data offer evidence consistent with the hypothesis, which
          > Yu presents in the July issue of the Journal of Geophysical
          Research-
          > Space Physics.
          >
          > +++++++
          >
          > Comments:
          >
          > What I want you to notice is the author of this research has NO EMF
          > training directly--he is an atmospheric scientist. Further, and
          more
          > importantly, he has NO BIOLOGY in his background. Most of these
          > scholars are highly specialized on the edge of their kens--and the
          > cross thinking just isn't there:
          >
          > http://www.albany.edu/~yfq/resume_txt.html
          >
          > EDUCATION
          >
          > 1998 Ph.D., Atmospheric Sciences, University of
          California
          > at Los Angeles
          > 1996 M.S., Atmospheric Sciences, University of
          California
          > at Los Angeles
          > 1994 M.S., Atmospheric Physics, Institute of
          Atmospheric
          > Physics, China
          > 1991 B.S., Atmospheric Sciences, Peking University, China
          >
          > PROFESSIONAL ACTIVITIES, AWARDS, HONORS
          >
          > Invited to give a review talk on the Effect of Galactic Cosmic
          > Rays on Aerosol
          > Nucleation, Workshop on Ion-Aerosol-Cloud Interactions, CERN,
          > Geneva,
          > Switzerland, April18-20, 2001.
          > (http://cloud.web.cern.ch/cloud/iaci_workshop)
          >
          > Publications:
          >
          > Yu, F. and R. P. Turco, From molecular clusters to nanoparticles:
          The
          > role of ambient ionization in tropospheric aerosol formation, J.
          > Geophys. Res., 106, 4797-4814, 2001.
          >
          > ++++++++++
          >
          > My point is that the experts are starting to see the EMF, as, for
          > instance B-1 and I have been documenting for over a year now, but
          > what isn't occurring is the connection between this physical
          forcing
          > and the stability of "climate" which can only come from modulation.
          >
          > Here are some additional links from the P. Sciences side of this:
          >
          > http://ae.atmos.uah.edu/AE/ams_2001b.html
          >
          > The SPECIAL workshop is entitled: "Space Weather and the Earth's
          > Weather and Climate: Links between solar activity, magnetospheric
          > variability, clouds, thunderstorms, and lightning." The workshop
          > hosts three distinct thematic groups which are working on :
          >
          > (1) Global Atmospheric Electric Circuit
          >
          > (2) Charged Particle Fluxes, Events, and Statistics and
          >
          > (3) Sprites and Lightning.
          >
          > During the workshop, distinct introductory review lectures will be
          > given and an extended poster session will be held for discussion
          and
          > planning of future research. For more detailed information on the
          > SPECIAL goals, registration forms, and recent announcements, check
          > out
          >
          > http://www.atmospheric-
          electricity.org/newsletters/2001fall/research-
          > activity.html
          >
          > http://www.sgo.fi/SPECIAL/
          >
          > http://www.atmospheric-
          electricity.org/newsletters/2001fall/research-
          > activity.html
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
          > > > Okay. If a neg charge accumulates at one end of a capacitor,
          > what
          > > > happens to the charge on the other end?
          > > >
          > > > Say a wave rolls of the coast of Africa and it brings negitive
          > > > charges to the ionosphere along the ITCZ. And quickly that
          > charge
          > > > spreads along the ITCZ all the way to South America, and in
          this
          > > > case, over the past day or so, all the way to the E. Pac.
          > > > Underneath, the charge will have a tendency to be what? And if
          > so,
          > > > it makes the charge on the front more what? And so over the
          > > > equatorial zones where there is fair weather, what charges will
          > the
          > > > ionosphere there become? Doran waves move by capacitance--
          hence
          > > > impedence is the measure of the oceans behavior . . .
          > > >
          > > > ++++++++++++++++++++++
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Below is a great link on dust.
          > > >
          > > > I think it really shows how EMFs are involved w/ the waves as
          the
          > > dry
          > > > air has your positive voltage to ground and really charges the
          > dust
          > > > and makes them suspend whereas the water vaper in the the air
          > takes
          > > > away that charge and causes the dust to drop by gravity.
          > > >
          > > > Where you can really see the EMF/Gaia is as that dust wave goes
          > > near
          > > > our Florida West Keys area and gets broken up but then sort of
          > > > reforms along the Texas coast . . .
          > > >
          > > > The final set of frames is interesting, too, from an EMF stand
          > > point.
          > > > What I want everyone to notice is how when that wave comes off
          > the
          > > > African coast it electrifies the entire Atlantic and connects
          w/
          > > the
          > > > Pacific in a straight line. No waves, IOW, because the EMF
          > contrast
          > > > between the dry strip of the counter and equator and the wet
          area
          > > is
          > > > so grand. But in the process of moving like that, I suspect it
          > can
          > > > cause instability.
          > > >
          > > > The SOI right now is flat zero w/ no TS activity anywhere.
          > > >
          > > > Understand it is very early spring for the Southern Hemisphere
          > and
          > > no
          > > > hydrology is going to the ocean biosphere in the Carribean to
          > speak
          > > > of. Typically, we would start to see some hydrology in
          September,
          > > as
          > > > someone here reminded us. BUT, with the dams, another story!
          > > >
          > > > With all these new sats and this new understanding of EMFs,
          folks
          > > > here are going to get a free intellectual ride that doesn't
          come
          > > > often in life. Strap up. It's going to be fun. When this
          becomes
          > > more
          > > > mainstream, you can tell your grand kids you were there when it
          > all
          > > > started.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/tropic/real-
          > > > time/wavetrak/movies/atlsal/atlsalwavejava5.html
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
          > > > > Capacitors store electricity and block the flow of Direct
          > > Current.
          > > > I
          > > > > understand it to be two electric conductors separated by a
          > > > > nonconductor of electric current.
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
          > > > > > I totally agree that this is true--but disagree what I
          think
          > > you
          > > > > may
          > > > > > be trying to say.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Strikes over a TS would be like a leaking capaciter.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Do you know how a capaciter works?
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Put it this way--what do you think the charge of the
          surface
          > > > under
          > > > > an
          > > > > > eye is if the ionosphere carries a huge negitive charge?
          > What
          > > > kind
          > > > > > of electrons will be favored on the surface? What charge
          > will
          > > be
          > > > > > repelled and what attracted?
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...>
          wrote:
          > > > > > > RE: The huge voltages of electrons over the eye:
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > "Surprisingly, not much lightning occurs in the inner
          core
          > > > > (within
          > > > > > > about 100 km or 60 mi) of the tropical cyclone center.
          Only
          > > > > around
          > > > > > a
          > > > > > > dozen or less cloud-to-ground strikes per hour occur
          around
          > > the
          > > > > > > eyewall of the storm...."
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/tcfaq/G10.html
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...>
          > wrote:
          > > > > > > > have been observed, Fred.
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > And yes, it is a wave feature. Capacitance, for
          > instance,
          > > > > works
          > > > > > > > between the ionosphere, which is conductive to direct
          > > > currents,
          > > > > > > and
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > "> the oceans, which is also conductive, BUT the air is
          > > > > insulative--
          > > > > > > just
          > > > > > > > like a capaciter--which is thus able to communicate
          waves
          > > but
          > > > > not
          > > > > > > > DC. Get it?
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...>
          > > wrote:
          > > > > > > > > <<"LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical
          systems
          > > are
          > > > > > > > > electrical.">>
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > I am not sure what you mean here. As far as I
          remember,
          > > > > > tropical
          > > > > > > > > storms have less electrical energy (fewer lightning
          > > strikes)
          > > > > > than
          > > > > > > > > would be expected. I understand the reason has to do
          > with
          > > > the
          > > > > > > low
          > > > > > > > > level air temps being high and that this does not
          allow
          > a
          > > > > large
          > > > > > > > > enough zone of below freezing temps in the upper
          clouds
          > > to
          > > > > > > produce
          > > > > > > > > the electical charge separation. The result is
          heavier
          > > > > rainfall
          > > > > > > but
          > > > > > > > > less lightning discharges.
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > Fred
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart"
          <mike@u...>
          > > > wrote:
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx
          > <no_reply@y...>
          > > > > wrote:
          > > > > > > > > > > <<"is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the
          > > > currents
          > > > > > > > involved
          > > > > > > > > > are
          > > > > > > > > > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the
          > context
          > > of
          > > > > the
          > > > > > > > > earth's
          > > > > > > > > > > EMF.">>
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > Current = Voltage/Impedence which implies that
          > > > impedance
          > > > > is
          > > > > > > =
          > > > > > > > or
          > > > > > > > > > > similar to resistance?
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > Yes it is. It INCLUDES resistance. Capacitance.
          > > > > Inductance.
          > > > > > > > > Hence,
          > > > > > > > > > SSTs is part of its measure.
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure what you mean by "NOT just the
          > earth's
          > > > EMF
          > > > > > but
          > > > > > > > > > currents
          > > > > > > > > > > in the context of earth's EMF's???
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > As you know, I have put up this link to an abstract
          > > about
          > > > > > > > > measurable
          > > > > > > > > > induction by ocean currents:
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > http://www.gfdl.gov/~gth/netscape/1992/dbs9201.html
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > BUT, this is merely what ocean currents are like in
          > the
          > > > > > > context
          > > > > > > > of
          > > > > > > > > > the earth's EMF and ignores the "noise" of other
          > EMFs.
          > > > > What
          > > > > > I
          > > > > > > am
          > > > > > > > > > saying is that when a strike occurs this itself has
          > an
          > > > EMF
          > > > > in
          > > > > > > > that
          > > > > > > > > > locality and for that short period, with itself is
          > > > > ORGANIZED
          > > > > > > in
          > > > > > > > the
          > > > > > > > > > context of the earth's EMF. Hence, direction of
          > > current
          > > > > for
          > > > > > > > these
          > > > > > > > > > outliners or noise is going to be more significant
          > > > because
          > > > > we
          > > > > > > are
          > > > > > > > > > dealing with larger EMFs. Just by itself, the
          > earth's
          > > > EMF
          > > > > is
          > > > > > > > > fairly
          > > > > > > > > > small, so the induction off of it is likewise
          small.
          > > But
          > > > > in
          > > > > > > the
          > > > > > > > > > context of upper atmospheric EMFs then the
          direction
          > of
          > > > > ocean
          > > > > > > > > > currents start to matter for their inductive
          > properties
          > > > > > > depending
          > > > > > > > > on
          > > > > > > > > > their direction. THEN, this induction sums to be
          > > > > significant
          > > > > > > the
          > > > > > > > > > inductance subpart of impedence. Hence, when a
          Doran
          > > > wave
          > > > > > > goes
          > > > > > > > > > through the pulse of ions is met with a varying EMF
          > > > > condition!
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > In this context here is from TWC where a poster was
          > > > > > commenting
          > > > > > > on
          > > > > > > > > why
          > > > > > > > > > in the N. Atlantic TS development won't go toward
          the
          > > > > equator
          > > > > > > and
          > > > > > > > > my
          > > > > > > > > > response:
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > ". . . then it's the ITCZ position that is limiting
          > > > > > > development.
          > > > > > > > > NOT
          > > > > > > > > > Coriolois. Coriolois is exactly equal at the same
          > > > latitudes
          > > > > > > all
          > > > > > > > > over
          > > > > > > > > > the world, 365 days a year. If it was Coriolois
          > > limiting
          > > > > > > > > development
          > > > > > > > > > in the CV region in the North Atlantic, it
          > > > > wouldn't "Change"
          > > > > > > > during
          > > > > > > > > > the year."
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > "What makes the North Atlantic unusual is the
          > > dependence
          > > > of
          > > > > > > > > formation
          > > > > > > > > > of storms on the African Easterly Jet (AEJ); it
          > simply
          > > > > never
          > > > > > > gets
          > > > > > > > > > that far south to spit out a perturbation that far
          > > south."
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > My response:
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > YES coriolis is important, but not for the reasons
          so
          > > far
          > > > > > > stated.
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical systems
          > are
          > > > > > > > electrical.
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > Doran waves are critical to this EMF dynamic, and
          > that
          > > > > means
          > > > > > > dry
          > > > > > > > > > strips in the warm, tropical waters. This is where
          > the
          > > > > > counter
          > > > > > > > > blows.
          > > > > > > > > > Or dulldrums at worst. This makes for good fair
          > weather
          > > > > > > voltages
          > > > > > > > > > positive 250 volts to ground. Induction, IOW,
          offers
          > > > > nothing
          > > > > > > more
          > > > > > > > > to
          > > > > > > > > > impedance.
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > If you have very warm waters and induction from
          west
          > to
          > > > > east
          > > > > > > > these
          > > > > > > > > > waters will really be good proton catchers. That
          > leaves
          > > > > > > electrons
          > > > > > > > > in
          > > > > > > > > > the ionosphere for the ITCZ. Or Doran waves.
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > Further, coriolis will help define the inner EMF
          > > dynamic
          > > > of
          > > > > > > the
          > > > > > > > TS
          > > > > > > > > > itself.
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > Finally, landfalling brings about EMF questions of
          > EMF
          > > > > > > potentials
          > > > > > > > > > between land and ocean and monsoons are their own
          EMF
          > > > > > > dynamics,
          > > > > > > > > which
          > > > > > > > > > can overcome the gyres/counter EMFs dynamics.
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > Understand we are talking about HUGE IR values
          under
          > > > > cirrus.
          > > > > > > No
          > > > > > > > > EMF,
          > > > > > > > > > no cirrus, no warm core lows.
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > +++++
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > I would additionally add that the jet stream is
          going
          > > to
          > > > > > cause
          > > > > > > > EMF
          > > > > > > > > > instability as well as air pressure instability,
          and
          > > that
          > > > > EMF
          > > > > > > > > > instability is more why storms occur along the
          jets,
          > as
          > > > dry
          > > > > > > > > > lines/patches/strips meeting areas of conductivity
          > > means
          > > > > that
          > > > > > > > youll
          > > > > > > > > > have areas where cirrus are enhanced toward the
          > > > ionosphere
          > > > > in
          > > > > > > a
          > > > > > > > > VERY
          > > > > > > > > > strong manner and there won't be lack of negitive
          > > charges
          > > > > in
          > > > > > > the
          > > > > > > > > > ionosphere as there is so much positive to ground
          > > > voltages
          > > > > > all
          > > > > > > > > around
          > > > > > > > > > the place of instability. This means that you will
          > have
          > > > IR
          > > > > > > values
          > > > > > > > > > under the cirrus that are very high and nearby air
          > that
          > > > > > > doesn't
          > > > > > > > > > retain any heat and this spells for strong
          exchanges
          > of
          > > > > > energy.
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > This dynamic, from an EMF standpoint, differs from
          > the
          > > > > > > tropical
          > > > > > > > > > storm, which has the negitive charges above the
          warm
          > > core
          > > > > > low,
          > > > > > > > with
          > > > > > > > > > positive charges above the cirrus, so positive that
          > the
          > > > > upper
          > > > > > > > > clouds
          > > > > > > > > > can't ever reach the potential differences by
          > > themselves
          > > > > > being
          > > > > > > > more
          > > > > > > > > > positive yet, to discharge that difference with
          > sprites
          > > > and
          > > > > > > > elves,
          > > > > > > > > > and hence they to move upwards, enhanced by the
          > > positive
          > > > > > > charges
          > > > > > > > > > around the eye. Near the eye it is interesting
          that
          > > > strike
          > > > > > > > > activity
          > > > > > > > > > is rare. That is because the upper clouds and
          > > ionosphere
          > > > > is
          > > > > > > so
          > > > > > > > > > positively charged that it is difficult to take
          more
          > > > > > electrons
          > > > > > > > > away,
          > > > > > > > > > even from the lower clouds toward a positively
          > charged
          > > > > ocean
          > > > > > > > > surface.
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > The ocean itself tends toward nuetral and basic pH,
          > > btw.
          > > > > > > Land,
          > > > > > > > > otoh,
          > > > > > > > > > will have a more acidic pH and more protons there
          for
          > a
          > > > > > moving
          > > > > > > > > front
          > > > > > > > > > to move up to the high clouds from the ground. The
          > > > > > insulative
          > > > > > > > > > properties of hydrates and the pH of the oceans, of
          > > > course,
          > > > > > is
          > > > > > > > all
          > > > > > > > > > biologically connected, so one could see how waves
          > > coming
          > > > > off
          > > > > > > of
          > > > > > > > W.
          > > > > > > > > > Africa that mean biologically active as opposed to
          > not
          > > > > active
          > > > > > > > could
          > > > > > > > > > die or not, become tropical or not, depending on
          > those
          > > > > > > conditions.
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > I first have to say I tend to get lost when it
          > comes
          > > to
          > > > > > > > > > electricity.
          > > > > > > > > > > Are you then saying that given the earth's
          magnetic
          > > > > field,
          > > > > > > when
          > > > > > > > > the
          > > > > > > > > > > ocean currents move perpendicular across it east-
          > > west)
          > > > > this
          > > > > > > > will
          > > > > > > > > > > create an electrical current. The voltage of this
          > > > > > > electricial
          > > > > > > > > > current
          > > > > > > > > > > would then be equal to electrical current times
          the
          > > > > > > Impedence
          > > > > > > > > > > (resistance)??
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > Fred
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart"
          > > <mike@u...>
          > > > > > wrote:
          > > > > > > > > > > > is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the
          > > > currents
          > > > > > > > involved
          > > > > > > > > > are
          > > > > > > > > > > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the
          > > context
          > > > of
          > > > > > > the
          > > > > > > > > > earth's
          > > > > > > > > > > > EMF.
          > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > There is a great example right now in the
          Pacific
          > > as
          > > > > the
          > > > > > > SOI
          > > > > > > > is
          > > > > > > > > > > near
          > > > > > > > > > > > zero and pressures are VERY high in the
          > equatorial
          > > > > > > regions.
          > > > > > > > > That
          > > > > > > > > > > > means FAIR WEATHER voltages positive to ground
          > and
          > > > huge
          > > > > > > Doran
          > > > > > > > > > > waves.
          > > > > > > > > > > > Well, guess what? There are FOUR tropical
          > features
          > > > in
          > > > > > the
          > > > > > > > > > Pacific--
          > > > > > > > > > > > two in the E. Pac and two in the W. Pac!
          > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > I also checked the TOA data and there remains a
          > > > > windless
          > > > > > > line
          > > > > > > > > mid
          > > > > > > > > > > > range.
          > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > Another interesting feature is that with the
          > latest
          > > > > SSTs
          > > > > > > the
          > > > > > > > La
          > > > > > > > > > > Nina
          > > > > > > > > > > > 1, 2 continues to grow. Further, in the N.
          > Pacific
          > > > the
          > > > > > > > waters
          > > > > > > > > > > there
          > > > > > > > > > > > are warm anomaly in the E. Pac where the canes
          > > start
          > > > > and
          > > > > > > that
          > > > > > > > > is
          > > > > > > > > > > why
          > > > > > > > > > > > those E. Pac storms are forming, then cooling
          the
          > > > SSTs
          > > > > > > that
          > > > > > > > > gyre
          > > > > > > > > > > > around and you have a future with cold
          anomalies
          > > even
          > > > > in
          > > > > > > 3, 4
          > > > > > > > > due
          > > > > > > > > > > to
          > > > > > > > > > > > this. YET, in the S. Pacific in the same
          region,
          > > > just
          > > > > > > south,
          > > > > > > > > > SSTS
          > > > > > > > > > > > are initinally cold gyring in from the Southern
          > > > Oceans
          > > > > > and
          > > > > > > > then
          > > > > > > > > > the
          > > > > > > > > > > > eddy gets warm anomally in the eddy coming back
          > > > because
          > > > > > > cold
          > > > > > > > > > means
          > > > > > > > > > > > less impeadance coming back for cirrus. This
          is
          > > > > CLEARLY
          > > > > > > > > > reflected
          > > > > > > > > > > in
          > > > > > > > > > > > the SST anomalies:
          > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > http://psbsgi1.nesdis.noaa.gov:8080/PSB/EPS/SST/climo.html
          > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > Another feature to see is the cold anomalies in
          > the
          > > > > > > > Carribean.
          > > > > > > > > > > That
          > > > > > > > > > > > is because if you think about it, as it is July
          > > that
          > > > is
          > > > > > > the
          > > > > > > > > same
          > > > > > > > > > as
          > > > > > > > > > > > January for the N. Hemisphere. For the semi
          > > tropical
          > > > > > > regions
          > > > > > > > > > that
          > > > > > > > > > > > means early spring. Now, if there are DAMS now
          > on
          > > > the
          > > > > > > > Orinoco
          > > > > > > > > as
          > > > > > > > > > > the
          > > > > > > > > > > > winter snows in the mountains start to melt and
          > the
          > > > > > spring
          > > > > > > > > rains
          > > > > > > > > > > > come, and dams capture those early flows,
          > hydrology
          > > > is
          > > > > > > > plugged,
          > > > > > > > > > > guess
          > > > > > > > > > > > what? The Carribean becomes Gaia unhealthy.
          EMF
          > > > > > > impeadance
          > > > > > > > is
          > > > > > > > > > > > reduced there from the biological conditions.
          > This
          > > > is
          > > > > > > true
          > > > > > > > > > whether
          > > > > > > > > > > > we are talking about hydrate fields near the
          > > Orinoco
          > > > or
          > > > > > pH
          > > > > > > > > > levels.
          > > > > > > > > > > > Now, check out the SST anomalies there! Cold!
          > > This
          > > > is
          > > > > > > how
          > > > > > > > the
          > > > > > > > > > > > season shifts, my friends.
          > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > We have both a La Nina making mechanism in the
          E.
          > > Pac
          > > > > and
          > > > > > > a
          > > > > > > > > delay
          > > > > > > > > > > in
          > > > > > > > > > > > hydrology in the Carribean working full on
          right
          > > now,
          > > > > > > making
          > > > > > > > > > > > conditions EMF poor for tropical storms. OTOH,
          > > waves
          > > > > > > coming
          > > > > > > > > out
          > > > > > > > > > of
          > > > > > > > > > > > Africa are starting to feel the BENEFIT of
          delays
          > > of
          > > > > > > > hydrology
          > > > > > > > > > from
          > > > > > > > > > > > West Africa dams and hydrology changes. (I
          > haven't
          > > > been
          > > > > > > able
          > > > > > > > to
          > > > > > > > > > > > figure out quite yet what the even MORE recent
          > > > changes
          > > > > to
          > > > > > > the
          > > > > > > > > > > > Amazon's hydrology means, but if you look in
          the
          > > > delta
          > > > > > and
          > > > > > > > > > > extending
          > > > > > > > > > > > out there, there also are cold anamolies
          > matching,
          > > > > again,
          > > > > > > > their
          > > > > > > > > > > early
          > > > > > > > > > > > spring. Africa had cold anomalies in early
          > March,
          > > > > > > matching
          > > > > > > > > their
          > > > > > > > > > > > spring.
          > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > It is later in the fall (shifting season) when
          > > there
          > > > is
          > > > > a
          > > > > > > > match
          > > > > > > > > > of
          > > > > > > > > > > > the delayed hydrology of the South American
          > > > conditions
          > > > > w/
          > > > > > > the
          > > > > > > > > > West
          > > > > > > > > > > > African conditions that we see the season
          > actually
          > > > > taking
          > > > > > > > > form.
          > > > > > > > > > > This
          > > > > > > > > > > > happens to corresponded to the asymetric
          changes
          > by
          > > > > > > > hemisphere
          > > > > > > > > > that
          > > > > > > > > > > > are occurring in the Pacific, when Doran waves
          > have
          > > > > > really
          > > > > > > > come
          > > > > > > > > > > > strong from the E. Pac and you have that
          > resulting
          > > > warm
          > > > > > > > anomaly
          > > > > > > > > > > area
          > > > > > > > > > > > by Panama. That is why we have, from an EMF
          > > > > standpoint,
          > > > > > > had
          > > > > > > > > > Mitch,
          > > > > > > > > > > > Kevin, Iris, Caracus 1999, Michelle, and will
          > have
          > > > > > another
          > > > > > > > > Mitch
          > > > > > > > > > > like
          > > > > > > > > > > > storm LATER in the year.
          > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > With no SOx event from a volcano which drop
          phase
          > > > > change
          > > > > > > > > > > temperatures
          > > > > > > > > > > > of cirrus, we can also be sure that this storm
          (s)
          > > > will
          > > > > > > stall
          > > > > > > > > and
          > > > > > > > > > > > flood.
          > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx
          > > > <no_reply@y...>
          > > > > > > wrote:
          > > > > > > > > > > > > How could warmer waters mean colder SSTs???
          > > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > "Counterintuitively, in general warmer
          oceans
          > > > result
          > > > > > in
          > > > > > > > more
          > > > > > > > > > > > > induction both for and against cirrus, which
          > > alters
          > > > > > > SSTs,
          > > > > > > > and
          > > > > > > > > > in
          > > > > > > > > > > > this
          > > > > > > > > > > > > case,since the circumpoler around Antarctica
          > > moves
          > > > > from
          > > > > > > > west
          > > > > > > > > to
          > > > > > > > > > > > east
          > > > > > > > > > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs"...
          > > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > Nevermind that I still see no strong evidence
          > > that
          > > > > > > > electrical
          > > > > > > > > > > > > currents induced by ocean currents have any
          > > > > measurable
          > > > > > > > effect
          > > > > > > > > > on
          > > > > > > > > > > > > cirrus clouds. IMHO, any currents are too
          weak
          > to
          > > > be
          > > > > > > > > > significant.
          > > > > > > > > > > > > Fred
          > > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart"
          > > > > <mike@u...>
          > > > > > > > wrote:
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.spacedaily.com/news/climate-
          > 02y.html
          > > > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > "In the Science paper, the El Nino-like
          > > > conditions
          > > > > > > > > correspond
          > > > > > > > > > > to
          > > > > > > > > > > > > the
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > cold period. This is actually rather
          > > surprising,"
          > > > > > > Poulsen
          > > > > > > > > > > > > said. "Most
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > climate scientists would have guessed that
          > the
          > > > cold
          > > > > > > > periods
          > > > > > > > > > > would
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > correspond to La Nina-like conditions. So,
          it
          > > is
          > > > > > clear
          > > > > > > > that
          > > > > > > > > > we
          > > > > > > > > > > > > don't
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > completely understand the physics that
          > control
          > > > the
          > > > > > > > tropical
          > > > > > > > > > > > climate
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > variability between warm and cold periods."
          > > > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > Comment:
          > > > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is occurring is much like the colder
          > > oceans,
          > > > > > post
          > > > > > > > Mt.
          > > > > > > > > > > > Pinatubo
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > and pre flaring cycle peak of 1997 and
          oceans
          > > of
          > > > > now.
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > Counterintuitively, in general warmer
          oceans
          > > > result
          > > > > > in
          > > > > > > > more
          > > > > > > > > > > > > induction
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > both for and against cirrus, which alters
          > SSTs,
          > > > and
          > > > > > in
          > > > > > > > this
          > > > > > > > > > > case,
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > since the circumpoler around Antarctica
          moves
          > > > from
          > > > > > > west
          > > > > > > > to
          > > > > > > > > > east
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs, and these
          > SSTs
          > > > > gyre
          > > > > > > > around
          > > > > > > > > > and
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > create La Nina or La Nada, not El Nino.
          OTOH,
          > > > with
          > > > > > > > > relatively
          > > > > > > > > > > > > cooler
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > waters in 1997, as flaring began to occur
          and
          > > the
          > > > > air
          > > > > > > > > cleared
          > > > > > > > > > > of
          > > > > > > > > > > > > SOx,
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > the colder oceans inducted less AGAINST
          > cirrus
          > > in
          > > > > the
          > > > > > > > > > Southern
          > > > > > > > > > > > > Oceans
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > and this resulted in warm SSTs, which gyred
          > > > around
          > > > > to
          > > > > > > > give
          > > > > > > > > us
          > > > > > > > > > > the
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > largest El Nino in at least 500 years.
          > > > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > The latest satellite data for the lower
          > > > troposphere:
          > > > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > Global trend per decade = +0.064°C,
          (Northern
          > > > > > > Hemisphere
          > > > > > > > =
          > > > > > > > > > > +0.136°
          > > > > > > > > > > > > C,
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > Southern Hemisphere = - 0.008°C.)
          > > > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > Global June 2002 = + 0.2°C, (Northern
          > > Hemisphere
          > > > =
          > > > > > > +0.217°
          > > > > > > > > C,
          > > > > > > > > > > > > Southern
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hemisphere = +0.183°C.)
          > > > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > The asymetry between hemisphere is DIRECTLY
          > > > related
          > > > > > to
          > > > > > > > what
          > > > > > > > > > > > warming
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > oceans mean to EMFs and cirrus--in that the
          > > > > Southern
          > > > > > > > > Ocean's
          > > > > > > > > > > > added
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > input of a current that moves so strongly
          > from
          > > > west
          > > > > > to
          > > > > > > > east
          > > > > > > > > > > > around
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > Antarctica. A warmer inducter of the oceans
          > > > inducts
          > > > > > > > better,
          > > > > > > > > > and
          > > > > > > > > > > > in
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > this case, warmer for the northern
          > hemisphere's
          > > > > > oceans
          > > > > > > > > means
          > > > > > > > > > on
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > balance there is more induction for cirrus
          > due
          > > to
          > > > > > > current
          > > > > > > > > > > > > direction .
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > . .
        • pawnfart
          ... Good question. Again, break it down. The convection is the motor to cause charge separation and ultimately that convection, which is driven by the sun,
          Message 4 of 17 , Aug 2, 2002
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
            > You are losing me again here.
            > You said that "underneath where there WAS the convection in Western
            > Africa, the positive charges that attracted the electron
            > concentration, in a capacitive manner, are no longer there."

            Good question. Again, break it down. The convection is the motor to
            cause charge separation and ultimately that convection, which is
            driven by the sun, is what keeps the lower ionosphere generally
            positively charged. That said, the MOST positively charged part of
            this dynamic is cirrus clouds pre-sprite/elve. There are TWO
            capacitive functions going on here, and really three if you hook in
            the oceans. That is because between GROUND and the lower portion of
            the clouds, there are dry line positive ion concentrations, which
            makes, by this opposits attract, the lower clouds NEGITIVE. HOWEVER,
            since no current flows but for strikes, elves and sprites, except
            inside the cloud itself, the upper part of the clouds becomes
            positive. Indeed, more positive than the lower ionosphere. Again,
            relatively speaking we are talking. So, above the positively charged
            upper cloud in capacitor number two, where there is, but for strikes,
            elves and sprites, no current in the air between cloud top and
            ionosphere. Therefore, electrons, if available, will move over that
            convective region and be drawn to the high clouds. Once the
            concentrations of ions get too extreme, say, from a strike from the
            low clouds--boom, you get elves and sprites and the cirrus are no
            longer opposites which attrack and are suspended by the EMF
            capacitive differences.


            What I am saying about the lower clouds to ocean dynamic is that it
            differs from the lower cloud to W. Africa dyamanic, that, int his
            particular situation resulted in the convection ending. While this
            ended the charge seperation that creates the ionosphere's positive
            charge, This still left this hug quantity of electrons in the
            ionosphere with no very positive cloud any more to be attracted to--
            so it moves to the ITCZ to get some further positive charges.



            >
            > Unerneath the convection over West Aftrica the thunderstorms will
            > induce a positive charge on the ground in response to the negative
            > charge in the lower portion of the clouds. The result is cloud to
            > ground lightning. The stream of electrons channels downward from
            the
            > cloud to the ground. As it nears the ground a positively charged
            > channel meets it (return stroke?). What I understan you to mean is
            > that after the discharges the ground and the lower cloud electical
            > charges are neutralized. ????
            >
            > Then you said "That means these electrons concentrations will move
            > (repelled by themselves, attracted to other positive cloud tops"
            >
            > I am lost here because I would think that the there would no longer
            > be an electron concentration.
            >
            > anyway, I have said I am unsure when it comes to electricity.
            >
            > fred
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > > <<"And if so, it makes the charge on the front more what?">>
            You
            > > > lost me here - what front? Do you mean the ITCZ?
            > >
            > > The ITCZ--yes. What happens is that relatively speaking
            underneath
            > > where there WAS the convection in Western Africa, the positive
            > > charges that attracted the electron concentration, in a
            capacitive
            > > manner, are no longer there. That means these electrons
            > > concentrations will move (repelled by themselves, attracted to
            > other
            > > positive cloud tops). In this case, they move along the ITCZ to
            > > reach a similar equillibrium as that which occurred over the
            > > convective cloud cover.
            > >
            > > I am not the only one interested in this theory. Check out this:
            > >
            > > http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/07/31/earth.rays/index.html
            > >
            > > Report: Cosmic rays influence climate change
            > > July 31, 2002 Posted: 9:26 AM EDT (1326 GMT)
            > >
            > > By Richard Stenger
            > >
            > > (CNN) -- The Earth has experienced higher surface but not
            > atmospheric
            > > temperatures in recent decades. Now a climate scientist thinks he
            > > knows why: highly charged particles originating beyond the solar
            > > system.
            > >
            > > The inconsistencies in ground and air temperature patterns have
            led
            > > some scientists to dismiss the idea that global warming is taking
            > > place.
            > >
            > > But one New York researcher suggests the discrepancy takes place
            > > because of the effect of interstellar cosmic rays on cloud
            > coverage.
            > > Other climate scientists have proposed a link between cosmic rays
            > and
            > > clouds.
            > >
            > > Research professor Fangqun Yu of the State University of New York-
            > > Albany goes further, proposing that low and high altitude clouds
            > > react differently to the rays, contributing to greater thermostat
            > > gaps near the surface and higher in the atmosphere.
            > >
            > > The number of cosmic rays that strike Earth depends to some
            degree
            > on
            > > the sun. Solar winds, which can protect the Earth from the
            > > interstellar rays, vary in intensity as the sun waxes and wanes
            in
            > > intensity, according to Yu.
            > >
            > > "A systematic change in global cloud cover will change the
            > > atmospheric heating profile," he said in a statement this week.
            > >
            > > "In other words, the cosmic ray-induced global cloud changes
            could
            > be
            > > the long-sought mechanism connecting solar and climate
            > variability."
            > >
            > > Yu said that observations of global warming this century have
            > > corresponded with lowered cosmic ray intensities.
            > >
            > > The hypothesis does not disregard man-made contributions to
            climate
            > > change. Greenhouse gases introduced by humans could affect the
            > cosmic
            > > ray-cloud interactions, he said.
            > >
            > > In any case, Yu proposes that cosmic rays help stoke the
            formation
            > of
            > > dense clouds in the lower atmosphere while having a little or
            > > negative affect on cloud cover in the upper atmosphere.
            > >
            > > The low clouds retain more surface energy, keeping the
            surrounding
            > > air hot, while thin high clouds reflect more sunlight into space,
            > > keeping the upper atmosphere cooler.
            > >
            > > Satellite data offer evidence consistent with the hypothesis,
            which
            > > Yu presents in the July issue of the Journal of Geophysical
            > Research-
            > > Space Physics.
            > >
            > > +++++++
            > >
            > > Comments:
            > >
            > > What I want you to notice is the author of this research has NO
            EMF
            > > training directly--he is an atmospheric scientist. Further, and
            > more
            > > importantly, he has NO BIOLOGY in his background. Most of these
            > > scholars are highly specialized on the edge of their kens--and
            the
            > > cross thinking just isn't there:
            > >
            > > http://www.albany.edu/~yfq/resume_txt.html
            > >
            > > EDUCATION
            > >
            > > 1998 Ph.D., Atmospheric Sciences, University of
            > California
            > > at Los Angeles
            > > 1996 M.S., Atmospheric Sciences, University of
            > California
            > > at Los Angeles
            > > 1994 M.S., Atmospheric Physics, Institute of
            > Atmospheric
            > > Physics, China
            > > 1991 B.S., Atmospheric Sciences, Peking University,
            China
            > >
            > > PROFESSIONAL ACTIVITIES, AWARDS, HONORS
            > >
            > > Invited to give a review talk on the Effect of Galactic Cosmic
            > > Rays on Aerosol
            > > Nucleation, Workshop on Ion-Aerosol-Cloud Interactions,
            CERN,
            > > Geneva,
            > > Switzerland, April18-20, 2001.
            > > (http://cloud.web.cern.ch/cloud/iaci_workshop)
            > >
            > > Publications:
            > >
            > > Yu, F. and R. P. Turco, From molecular clusters to nanoparticles:
            > The
            > > role of ambient ionization in tropospheric aerosol formation, J.
            > > Geophys. Res., 106, 4797-4814, 2001.
            > >
            > > ++++++++++
            > >
            > > My point is that the experts are starting to see the EMF, as, for
            > > instance B-1 and I have been documenting for over a year now, but
            > > what isn't occurring is the connection between this physical
            > forcing
            > > and the stability of "climate" which can only come from
            modulation.
            > >
            > > Here are some additional links from the P. Sciences side of this:
            > >
            > > http://ae.atmos.uah.edu/AE/ams_2001b.html
            > >
            > > The SPECIAL workshop is entitled: "Space Weather and the Earth's
            > > Weather and Climate: Links between solar activity, magnetospheric
            > > variability, clouds, thunderstorms, and lightning." The workshop
            > > hosts three distinct thematic groups which are working on :
            > >
            > > (1) Global Atmospheric Electric Circuit
            > >
            > > (2) Charged Particle Fluxes, Events, and Statistics and
            > >
            > > (3) Sprites and Lightning.
            > >
            > > During the workshop, distinct introductory review lectures will
            be
            > > given and an extended poster session will be held for discussion
            > and
            > > planning of future research. For more detailed information on the
            > > SPECIAL goals, registration forms, and recent announcements,
            check
            > > out
            > >
            > > http://www.atmospheric-
            > electricity.org/newsletters/2001fall/research-
            > > activity.html
            > >
            > > http://www.sgo.fi/SPECIAL/
            > >
            > > http://www.atmospheric-
            > electricity.org/newsletters/2001fall/research-
            > > activity.html
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
            > > > > Okay. If a neg charge accumulates at one end of a capacitor,
            > > what
            > > > > happens to the charge on the other end?
            > > > >
            > > > > Say a wave rolls of the coast of Africa and it brings
            negitive
            > > > > charges to the ionosphere along the ITCZ. And quickly that
            > > charge
            > > > > spreads along the ITCZ all the way to South America, and in
            > this
            > > > > case, over the past day or so, all the way to the E. Pac.
            > > > > Underneath, the charge will have a tendency to be what? And
            if
            > > so,
            > > > > it makes the charge on the front more what? And so over the
            > > > > equatorial zones where there is fair weather, what charges
            will
            > > the
            > > > > ionosphere there become? Doran waves move by capacitance--
            > hence
            > > > > impedence is the measure of the oceans behavior . . .
            > > > >
            > > > > ++++++++++++++++++++++
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > Below is a great link on dust.
            > > > >
            > > > > I think it really shows how EMFs are involved w/ the waves as
            > the
            > > > dry
            > > > > air has your positive voltage to ground and really charges
            the
            > > dust
            > > > > and makes them suspend whereas the water vaper in the the air
            > > takes
            > > > > away that charge and causes the dust to drop by gravity.
            > > > >
            > > > > Where you can really see the EMF/Gaia is as that dust wave
            goes
            > > > near
            > > > > our Florida West Keys area and gets broken up but then sort
            of
            > > > > reforms along the Texas coast . . .
            > > > >
            > > > > The final set of frames is interesting, too, from an EMF
            stand
            > > > point.
            > > > > What I want everyone to notice is how when that wave comes
            off
            > > the
            > > > > African coast it electrifies the entire Atlantic and connects
            > w/
            > > > the
            > > > > Pacific in a straight line. No waves, IOW, because the EMF
            > > contrast
            > > > > between the dry strip of the counter and equator and the wet
            > area
            > > > is
            > > > > so grand. But in the process of moving like that, I suspect
            it
            > > can
            > > > > cause instability.
            > > > >
            > > > > The SOI right now is flat zero w/ no TS activity anywhere.
            > > > >
            > > > > Understand it is very early spring for the Southern
            Hemisphere
            > > and
            > > > no
            > > > > hydrology is going to the ocean biosphere in the Carribean to
            > > speak
            > > > > of. Typically, we would start to see some hydrology in
            > September,
            > > > as
            > > > > someone here reminded us. BUT, with the dams, another story!
            > > > >
            > > > > With all these new sats and this new understanding of EMFs,
            > folks
            > > > > here are going to get a free intellectual ride that doesn't
            > come
            > > > > often in life. Strap up. It's going to be fun. When this
            > becomes
            > > > more
            > > > > mainstream, you can tell your grand kids you were there when
            it
            > > all
            > > > > started.
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/tropic/real-
            > > > > time/wavetrak/movies/atlsal/atlsalwavejava5.html
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
            > > > > > Capacitors store electricity and block the flow of Direct
            > > > Current.
            > > > > I
            > > > > > understand it to be two electric conductors separated by a
            > > > > > nonconductor of electric current.
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...>
            wrote:
            > > > > > > I totally agree that this is true--but disagree what I
            > think
            > > > you
            > > > > > may
            > > > > > > be trying to say.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Strikes over a TS would be like a leaking capaciter.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Do you know how a capaciter works?
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Put it this way--what do you think the charge of the
            > surface
            > > > > under
            > > > > > an
            > > > > > > eye is if the ionosphere carries a huge negitive charge?
            > > What
            > > > > kind
            > > > > > > of electrons will be favored on the surface? What charge
            > > will
            > > > be
            > > > > > > repelled and what attracted?
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...>
            > wrote:
            > > > > > > > RE: The huge voltages of electrons over the eye:
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > "Surprisingly, not much lightning occurs in the inner
            > core
            > > > > > (within
            > > > > > > > about 100 km or 60 mi) of the tropical cyclone center.
            > Only
            > > > > > around
            > > > > > > a
            > > > > > > > dozen or less cloud-to-ground strikes per hour occur
            > around
            > > > the
            > > > > > > > eyewall of the storm...."
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/tcfaq/G10.html
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...>
            > > wrote:
            > > > > > > > > have been observed, Fred.
            > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > And yes, it is a wave feature. Capacitance, for
            > > instance,
            > > > > > works
            > > > > > > > > between the ionosphere, which is conductive to direct
            > > > > currents,
            > > > > > > > and
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > "> the oceans, which is also conductive, BUT the air is
            > > > > > insulative--
            > > > > > > > just
            > > > > > > > > like a capaciter--which is thus able to communicate
            > waves
            > > > but
            > > > > > not
            > > > > > > > > DC. Get it?
            > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx
            <no_reply@y...>
            > > > wrote:
            > > > > > > > > > <<"LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical
            > systems
            > > > are
            > > > > > > > > > electrical.">>
            > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > I am not sure what you mean here. As far as I
            > remember,
            > > > > > > tropical
            > > > > > > > > > storms have less electrical energy (fewer lightning
            > > > strikes)
            > > > > > > than
            > > > > > > > > > would be expected. I understand the reason has to
            do
            > > with
            > > > > the
            > > > > > > > low
            > > > > > > > > > level air temps being high and that this does not
            > allow
            > > a
            > > > > > large
            > > > > > > > > > enough zone of below freezing temps in the upper
            > clouds
            > > > to
            > > > > > > > produce
            > > > > > > > > > the electical charge separation. The result is
            > heavier
            > > > > > rainfall
            > > > > > > > but
            > > > > > > > > > less lightning discharges.
            > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > Fred
            > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart"
            > <mike@u...>
            > > > > wrote:
            > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx
            > > <no_reply@y...>
            > > > > > wrote:
            > > > > > > > > > > > <<"is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the
            > > > > currents
            > > > > > > > > involved
            > > > > > > > > > > are
            > > > > > > > > > > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the
            > > context
            > > > of
            > > > > > the
            > > > > > > > > > earth's
            > > > > > > > > > > > EMF.">>
            > > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > > Current = Voltage/Impedence which implies that
            > > > > impedance
            > > > > > is
            > > > > > > > =
            > > > > > > > > or
            > > > > > > > > > > > similar to resistance?
            > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > Yes it is. It INCLUDES resistance. Capacitance.
            > > > > > Inductance.
            > > > > > > > > > Hence,
            > > > > > > > > > > SSTs is part of its measure.
            > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure what you mean by "NOT just the
            > > earth's
            > > > > EMF
            > > > > > > but
            > > > > > > > > > > currents
            > > > > > > > > > > > in the context of earth's EMF's???
            > > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > As you know, I have put up this link to an
            abstract
            > > > about
            > > > > > > > > > measurable
            > > > > > > > > > > induction by ocean currents:
            > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > >
            http://www.gfdl.gov/~gth/netscape/1992/dbs9201.html
            > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > BUT, this is merely what ocean currents are like
            in
            > > the
            > > > > > > > context
            > > > > > > > > of
            > > > > > > > > > > the earth's EMF and ignores the "noise" of other
            > > EMFs.
            > > > > > What
            > > > > > > I
            > > > > > > > am
            > > > > > > > > > > saying is that when a strike occurs this itself
            has
            > > an
            > > > > EMF
            > > > > > in
            > > > > > > > > that
            > > > > > > > > > > locality and for that short period, with itself
            is
            > > > > > ORGANIZED
            > > > > > > > in
            > > > > > > > > the
            > > > > > > > > > > context of the earth's EMF. Hence, direction of
            > > > current
            > > > > > for
            > > > > > > > > these
            > > > > > > > > > > outliners or noise is going to be more
            significant
            > > > > because
            > > > > > we
            > > > > > > > are
            > > > > > > > > > > dealing with larger EMFs. Just by itself, the
            > > earth's
            > > > > EMF
            > > > > > is
            > > > > > > > > > fairly
            > > > > > > > > > > small, so the induction off of it is likewise
            > small.
            > > > But
            > > > > > in
            > > > > > > > the
            > > > > > > > > > > context of upper atmospheric EMFs then the
            > direction
            > > of
            > > > > > ocean
            > > > > > > > > > > currents start to matter for their inductive
            > > properties
            > > > > > > > depending
            > > > > > > > > > on
            > > > > > > > > > > their direction. THEN, this induction sums to be
            > > > > > significant
            > > > > > > > the
            > > > > > > > > > > inductance subpart of impedence. Hence, when a
            > Doran
            > > > > wave
            > > > > > > > goes
            > > > > > > > > > > through the pulse of ions is met with a varying
            EMF
            > > > > > condition!
            > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > In this context here is from TWC where a poster
            was
            > > > > > > commenting
            > > > > > > > on
            > > > > > > > > > why
            > > > > > > > > > > in the N. Atlantic TS development won't go toward
            > the
            > > > > > equator
            > > > > > > > and
            > > > > > > > > > my
            > > > > > > > > > > response:
            > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > ". . . then it's the ITCZ position that is
            limiting
            > > > > > > > development.
            > > > > > > > > > NOT
            > > > > > > > > > > Coriolois. Coriolois is exactly equal at the same
            > > > > latitudes
            > > > > > > > all
            > > > > > > > > > over
            > > > > > > > > > > the world, 365 days a year. If it was Coriolois
            > > > limiting
            > > > > > > > > > development
            > > > > > > > > > > in the CV region in the North Atlantic, it
            > > > > > wouldn't "Change"
            > > > > > > > > during
            > > > > > > > > > > the year."
            > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > "What makes the North Atlantic unusual is the
            > > > dependence
            > > > > of
            > > > > > > > > > formation
            > > > > > > > > > > of storms on the African Easterly Jet (AEJ); it
            > > simply
            > > > > > never
            > > > > > > > gets
            > > > > > > > > > > that far south to spit out a perturbation that
            far
            > > > south."
            > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > My response:
            > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > YES coriolis is important, but not for the
            reasons
            > so
            > > > far
            > > > > > > > stated.
            > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical
            systems
            > > are
            > > > > > > > > electrical.
            > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > Doran waves are critical to this EMF dynamic, and
            > > that
            > > > > > means
            > > > > > > > dry
            > > > > > > > > > > strips in the warm, tropical waters. This is
            where
            > > the
            > > > > > > counter
            > > > > > > > > > blows.
            > > > > > > > > > > Or dulldrums at worst. This makes for good fair
            > > weather
            > > > > > > > voltages
            > > > > > > > > > > positive 250 volts to ground. Induction, IOW,
            > offers
            > > > > > nothing
            > > > > > > > more
            > > > > > > > > > to
            > > > > > > > > > > impedance.
            > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > If you have very warm waters and induction from
            > west
            > > to
            > > > > > east
            > > > > > > > > these
            > > > > > > > > > > waters will really be good proton catchers. That
            > > leaves
            > > > > > > > electrons
            > > > > > > > > > in
            > > > > > > > > > > the ionosphere for the ITCZ. Or Doran waves.
            > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > Further, coriolis will help define the inner EMF
            > > > dynamic
            > > > > of
            > > > > > > > the
            > > > > > > > > TS
            > > > > > > > > > > itself.
            > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > Finally, landfalling brings about EMF questions
            of
            > > EMF
            > > > > > > > potentials
            > > > > > > > > > > between land and ocean and monsoons are their own
            > EMF
            > > > > > > > dynamics,
            > > > > > > > > > which
            > > > > > > > > > > can overcome the gyres/counter EMFs dynamics.
            > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > Understand we are talking about HUGE IR values
            > under
            > > > > > cirrus.
            > > > > > > > No
            > > > > > > > > > EMF,
            > > > > > > > > > > no cirrus, no warm core lows.
            > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > +++++
            > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > I would additionally add that the jet stream is
            > going
            > > > to
            > > > > > > cause
            > > > > > > > > EMF
            > > > > > > > > > > instability as well as air pressure instability,
            > and
            > > > that
            > > > > > EMF
            > > > > > > > > > > instability is more why storms occur along the
            > jets,
            > > as
            > > > > dry
            > > > > > > > > > > lines/patches/strips meeting areas of
            conductivity
            > > > means
            > > > > > that
            > > > > > > > > youll
            > > > > > > > > > > have areas where cirrus are enhanced toward the
            > > > > ionosphere
            > > > > > in
            > > > > > > > a
            > > > > > > > > > VERY
            > > > > > > > > > > strong manner and there won't be lack of negitive
            > > > charges
            > > > > > in
            > > > > > > > the
            > > > > > > > > > > ionosphere as there is so much positive to ground
            > > > > voltages
            > > > > > > all
            > > > > > > > > > around
            > > > > > > > > > > the place of instability. This means that you
            will
            > > have
            > > > > IR
            > > > > > > > values
            > > > > > > > > > > under the cirrus that are very high and nearby
            air
            > > that
            > > > > > > > doesn't
            > > > > > > > > > > retain any heat and this spells for strong
            > exchanges
            > > of
            > > > > > > energy.
            > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > This dynamic, from an EMF standpoint, differs
            from
            > > the
            > > > > > > > tropical
            > > > > > > > > > > storm, which has the negitive charges above the
            > warm
            > > > core
            > > > > > > low,
            > > > > > > > > with
            > > > > > > > > > > positive charges above the cirrus, so positive
            that
            > > the
            > > > > > upper
            > > > > > > > > > clouds
            > > > > > > > > > > can't ever reach the potential differences by
            > > > themselves
            > > > > > > being
            > > > > > > > > more
            > > > > > > > > > > positive yet, to discharge that difference with
            > > sprites
            > > > > and
            > > > > > > > > elves,
            > > > > > > > > > > and hence they to move upwards, enhanced by the
            > > > positive
            > > > > > > > charges
            > > > > > > > > > > around the eye. Near the eye it is interesting
            > that
            > > > > strike
            > > > > > > > > > activity
            > > > > > > > > > > is rare. That is because the upper clouds and
            > > > ionosphere
            > > > > > is
            > > > > > > > so
            > > > > > > > > > > positively charged that it is difficult to take
            > more
            > > > > > > electrons
            > > > > > > > > > away,
            > > > > > > > > > > even from the lower clouds toward a positively
            > > charged
            > > > > > ocean
            > > > > > > > > > surface.
            > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > The ocean itself tends toward nuetral and basic
            pH,
            > > > btw.
            > > > > > > > Land,
            > > > > > > > > > otoh,
            > > > > > > > > > > will have a more acidic pH and more protons there
            > for
            > > a
            > > > > > > moving
            > > > > > > > > > front
            > > > > > > > > > > to move up to the high clouds from the ground.
            The
            > > > > > > insulative
            > > > > > > > > > > properties of hydrates and the pH of the oceans,
            of
            > > > > course,
            > > > > > > is
            > > > > > > > > all
            > > > > > > > > > > biologically connected, so one could see how
            waves
            > > > coming
            > > > > > off
            > > > > > > > of
            > > > > > > > > W.
            > > > > > > > > > > Africa that mean biologically active as opposed
            to
            > > not
            > > > > > active
            > > > > > > > > could
            > > > > > > > > > > die or not, become tropical or not, depending on
            > > those
            > > > > > > > conditions.
            > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > > I first have to say I tend to get lost when it
            > > comes
            > > > to
            > > > > > > > > > > electricity.
            > > > > > > > > > > > Are you then saying that given the earth's
            > magnetic
            > > > > > field,
            > > > > > > > when
            > > > > > > > > > the
            > > > > > > > > > > > ocean currents move perpendicular across it
            east-
            > > > west)
            > > > > > this
            > > > > > > > > will
            > > > > > > > > > > > create an electrical current. The voltage of
            this
            > > > > > > > electricial
            > > > > > > > > > > current
            > > > > > > > > > > > would then be equal to electrical current times
            > the
            > > > > > > > Impedence
            > > > > > > > > > > > (resistance)??
            > > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > > Fred
            > > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart"
            > > > <mike@u...>
            > > > > > > wrote:
            > > > > > > > > > > > > is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the
            > > > > currents
            > > > > > > > > involved
            > > > > > > > > > > are
            > > > > > > > > > > > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the
            > > > context
            > > > > of
            > > > > > > > the
            > > > > > > > > > > earth's
            > > > > > > > > > > > > EMF.
            > > > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > > > There is a great example right now in the
            > Pacific
            > > > as
            > > > > > the
            > > > > > > > SOI
            > > > > > > > > is
            > > > > > > > > > > > near
            > > > > > > > > > > > > zero and pressures are VERY high in the
            > > equatorial
            > > > > > > > regions.
            > > > > > > > > > That
            > > > > > > > > > > > > means FAIR WEATHER voltages positive to
            ground
            > > and
            > > > > huge
            > > > > > > > Doran
            > > > > > > > > > > > waves.
            > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, guess what? There are FOUR tropical
            > > features
            > > > > in
            > > > > > > the
            > > > > > > > > > > Pacific--
            > > > > > > > > > > > > two in the E. Pac and two in the W. Pac!
            > > > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > > > I also checked the TOA data and there remains
            a
            > > > > > windless
            > > > > > > > line
            > > > > > > > > > mid
            > > > > > > > > > > > > range.
            > > > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > > > Another interesting feature is that with the
            > > latest
            > > > > > SSTs
            > > > > > > > the
            > > > > > > > > La
            > > > > > > > > > > > Nina
            > > > > > > > > > > > > 1, 2 continues to grow. Further, in the N.
            > > Pacific
            > > > > the
            > > > > > > > > waters
            > > > > > > > > > > > there
            > > > > > > > > > > > > are warm anomaly in the E. Pac where the
            canes
            > > > start
            > > > > > and
            > > > > > > > that
            > > > > > > > > > is
            > > > > > > > > > > > why
            > > > > > > > > > > > > those E. Pac storms are forming, then cooling
            > the
            > > > > SSTs
            > > > > > > > that
            > > > > > > > > > gyre
            > > > > > > > > > > > > around and you have a future with cold
            > anomalies
            > > > even
            > > > > > in
            > > > > > > > 3, 4
            > > > > > > > > > due
            > > > > > > > > > > > to
            > > > > > > > > > > > > this. YET, in the S. Pacific in the same
            > region,
            > > > > just
            > > > > > > > south,
            > > > > > > > > > > SSTS
            > > > > > > > > > > > > are initinally cold gyring in from the
            Southern
            > > > > Oceans
            > > > > > > and
            > > > > > > > > then
            > > > > > > > > > > the
            > > > > > > > > > > > > eddy gets warm anomally in the eddy coming
            back
            > > > > because
            > > > > > > > cold
            > > > > > > > > > > means
            > > > > > > > > > > > > less impeadance coming back for cirrus. This
            > is
            > > > > > CLEARLY
            > > > > > > > > > > reflected
            > > > > > > > > > > > in
            > > > > > > > > > > > > the SST anomalies:
            > > > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > http://psbsgi1.nesdis.noaa.gov:8080/PSB/EPS/SST/climo.html
            > > > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > > > Another feature to see is the cold anomalies
            in
            > > the
            > > > > > > > > Carribean.
            > > > > > > > > > > > That
            > > > > > > > > > > > > is because if you think about it, as it is
            July
            > > > that
            > > > > is
            > > > > > > > the
            > > > > > > > > > same
            > > > > > > > > > > as
            > > > > > > > > > > > > January for the N. Hemisphere. For the semi
            > > > tropical
            > > > > > > > regions
            > > > > > > > > > > that
            > > > > > > > > > > > > means early spring. Now, if there are DAMS
            now
            > > on
            > > > > the
            > > > > > > > > Orinoco
            > > > > > > > > > as
            > > > > > > > > > > > the
            > > > > > > > > > > > > winter snows in the mountains start to melt
            and
            > > the
            > > > > > > spring
            > > > > > > > > > rains
            > > > > > > > > > > > > come, and dams capture those early flows,
            > > hydrology
            > > > > is
            > > > > > > > > plugged,
            > > > > > > > > > > > guess
            > > > > > > > > > > > > what? The Carribean becomes Gaia unhealthy.
            > EMF
            > > > > > > > impeadance
            > > > > > > > > is
            > > > > > > > > > > > > reduced there from the biological
            conditions.
            > > This
            > > > > is
            > > > > > > > true
            > > > > > > > > > > whether
            > > > > > > > > > > > > we are talking about hydrate fields near the
            > > > Orinoco
            > > > > or
            > > > > > > pH
            > > > > > > > > > > levels.
            > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, check out the SST anomalies there!
            Cold!
            > > > This
            > > > > is
            > > > > > > > how
            > > > > > > > > the
            > > > > > > > > > > > > season shifts, my friends.
            > > > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > > > We have both a La Nina making mechanism in
            the
            > E.
            > > > Pac
            > > > > > and
            > > > > > > > a
            > > > > > > > > > delay
            > > > > > > > > > > > in
            > > > > > > > > > > > > hydrology in the Carribean working full on
            > right
            > > > now,
            > > > > > > > making
            > > > > > > > > > > > > conditions EMF poor for tropical storms.
            OTOH,
            > > > waves
            > > > > > > > coming
            > > > > > > > > > out
            > > > > > > > > > > of
            > > > > > > > > > > > > Africa are starting to feel the BENEFIT of
            > delays
            > > > of
            > > > > > > > > hydrology
            > > > > > > > > > > from
            > > > > > > > > > > > > West Africa dams and hydrology changes. (I
            > > haven't
            > > > > been
            > > > > > > > able
            > > > > > > > > to
            > > > > > > > > > > > > figure out quite yet what the even MORE
            recent
            > > > > changes
            > > > > > to
            > > > > > > > the
            > > > > > > > > > > > > Amazon's hydrology means, but if you look in
            > the
            > > > > delta
            > > > > > > and
            > > > > > > > > > > > extending
            > > > > > > > > > > > > out there, there also are cold anamolies
            > > matching,
            > > > > > again,
            > > > > > > > > their
            > > > > > > > > > > > early
            > > > > > > > > > > > > spring. Africa had cold anomalies in early
            > > March,
            > > > > > > > matching
            > > > > > > > > > their
            > > > > > > > > > > > > spring.
            > > > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > > > It is later in the fall (shifting season)
            when
            > > > there
            > > > > is
            > > > > > a
            > > > > > > > > match
            > > > > > > > > > > of
            > > > > > > > > > > > > the delayed hydrology of the South American
            > > > > conditions
            > > > > > w/
            > > > > > > > the
            > > > > > > > > > > West
            > > > > > > > > > > > > African conditions that we see the season
            > > actually
            > > > > > taking
            > > > > > > > > > form.
            > > > > > > > > > > > This
            > > > > > > > > > > > > happens to corresponded to the asymetric
            > changes
            > > by
            > > > > > > > > hemisphere
            > > > > > > > > > > that
            > > > > > > > > > > > > are occurring in the Pacific, when Doran
            waves
            > > have
            > > > > > > really
            > > > > > > > > come
            > > > > > > > > > > > > strong from the E. Pac and you have that
            > > resulting
            > > > > warm
            > > > > > > > > anomaly
            > > > > > > > > > > > area
            > > > > > > > > > > > > by Panama. That is why we have, from an EMF
            > > > > > standpoint,
            > > > > > > > had
            > > > > > > > > > > Mitch,
            > > > > > > > > > > > > Kevin, Iris, Caracus 1999, Michelle, and will
            > > have
            > > > > > > another
            > > > > > > > > > Mitch
            > > > > > > > > > > > like
            > > > > > > > > > > > > storm LATER in the year.
            > > > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > > > With no SOx event from a volcano which drop
            > phase
            > > > > > change
            > > > > > > > > > > > temperatures
            > > > > > > > > > > > > of cirrus, we can also be sure that this storm
            > (s)
            > > > > will
            > > > > > > > stall
            > > > > > > > > > and
            > > > > > > > > > > > > flood.
            > > > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx
            > > > > <no_reply@y...>
            > > > > > > > wrote:
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > How could warmer waters mean colder SSTs???
            > > > > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Counterintuitively, in general warmer
            > oceans
            > > > > result
            > > > > > > in
            > > > > > > > > more
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > induction both for and against cirrus,
            which
            > > > alters
            > > > > > > > SSTs,
            > > > > > > > > and
            > > > > > > > > > > in
            > > > > > > > > > > > > this
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > case,since the circumpoler around
            Antarctica
            > > > moves
            > > > > > from
            > > > > > > > > west
            > > > > > > > > > to
            > > > > > > > > > > > > east
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs"...
            > > > > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nevermind that I still see no strong
            evidence
            > > > that
            > > > > > > > > electrical
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > currents induced by ocean currents have any
            > > > > > measurable
            > > > > > > > > effect
            > > > > > > > > > > on
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > cirrus clouds. IMHO, any currents are too
            > weak
            > > to
            > > > > be
            > > > > > > > > > > significant.
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fred
            > > > > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart"
            > > > > > <mike@u...>
            > > > > > > > > wrote:
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.spacedaily.com/news/climate-
            > > 02y.html
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "In the Science paper, the El Nino-like
            > > > > conditions
            > > > > > > > > > correspond
            > > > > > > > > > > > to
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > the
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cold period. This is actually rather
            > > > surprising,"
            > > > > > > > Poulsen
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > said. "Most
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > > climate scientists would have guessed
            that
            > > the
            > > > > cold
            > > > > > > > > periods
            > > > > > > > > > > > would
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > > correspond to La Nina-like conditions.
            So,
            > it
            > > > is
            > > > > > > clear
            > > > > > > > > that
            > > > > > > > > > > we
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > don't
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > > completely understand the physics that
            > > control
            > > > > the
            > > > > > > > > tropical
            > > > > > > > > > > > > climate
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > > variability between warm and cold
            periods."
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Comment:
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is occurring is much like the colder
            > > > oceans,
            > > > > > > post
            > > > > > > > > Mt.
            > > > > > > > > > > > > Pinatubo
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and pre flaring cycle peak of 1997 and
            > oceans
            > > > of
            > > > > > now.
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Counterintuitively, in general warmer
            > oceans
            > > > > result
            > > > > > > in
            > > > > > > > > more
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > induction
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > > both for and against cirrus, which alters
            > > SSTs,
            > > > > and
            > > > > > > in
            > > > > > > > > this
            > > > > > > > > > > > case,
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > > since the circumpoler around Antarctica
            > moves
            > > > > from
            > > > > > > > west
            > > > > > > > > to
            > > > > > > > > > > east
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs, and
            these
            > > SSTs
            > > > > > gyre
            > > > > > > > > around
            > > > > > > > > > > and
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > > create La Nina or La Nada, not El Nino.
            > OTOH,
            > > > > with
            > > > > > > > > > relatively
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > cooler
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > > waters in 1997, as flaring began to occur
            > and
            > > > the
            > > > > > air
            > > > > > > > > > cleared
            > > > > > > > > > > > of
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > SOx,
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the colder oceans inducted less AGAINST
            > > cirrus
            > > > in
            > > > > > the
            > > > > > > > > > > Southern
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oceans
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and this resulted in warm SSTs, which
            gyred
            > > > > around
            > > > > > to
            > > > > > > > > give
            > > > > > > > > > us
            > > > > > > > > > > > the
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > > largest El Nino in at least 500 years.
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The latest satellite data for the lower
            > > > > troposphere:
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Global trend per decade = +0.064°C,
            > (Northern
            > > > > > > > Hemisphere
            > > > > > > > > =
            > > > > > > > > > > > +0.136°
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > C,
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Southern Hemisphere = - 0.008°C.)
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Global June 2002 = + 0.2°C, (Northern
            > > > Hemisphere
            > > > > =
            > > > > > > > +0.217°
            > > > > > > > > > C,
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > Southern
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hemisphere = +0.183°C.)
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The asymetry between hemisphere is
            DIRECTLY
            > > > > related
            > > > > > > to
            > > > > > > > > what
            > > > > > > > > > > > > warming
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > > oceans mean to EMFs and cirrus--in that
            the
            > > > > > Southern
            > > > > > > > > > Ocean's
            > > > > > > > > > > > > added
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > > input of a current that moves so strongly
            > > from
            > > > > west
            > > > > > > to
            > > > > > > > > east
            > > > > > > > > > > > > around
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Antarctica. A warmer inducter of the
            oceans
            > > > > inducts
            > > > > > > > > better,
            > > > > > > > > > > and
            > > > > > > > > > > > > in
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this case, warmer for the northern
            > > hemisphere's
            > > > > > > oceans
            > > > > > > > > > means
            > > > > > > > > > > on
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > > balance there is more induction for
            cirrus
            > > due
            > > > to
            > > > > > > > current
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > direction .
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . .
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