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History, averages, ENSO

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  • pawnfart
    http://www.spacedaily.com/news/climate-02y.html In the Science paper, the El Nino-like conditions correspond to the cold period. This is actually rather
    Message 1 of 17 , Jul 19, 2002
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      http://www.spacedaily.com/news/climate-02y.html

      "In the Science paper, the El Nino-like conditions correspond to the
      cold period. This is actually rather surprising," Poulsen said. "Most
      climate scientists would have guessed that the cold periods would
      correspond to La Nina-like conditions. So, it is clear that we don't
      completely understand the physics that control the tropical climate
      variability between warm and cold periods."

      Comment:

      What is occurring is much like the colder oceans, post Mt. Pinatubo
      and pre flaring cycle peak of 1997 and oceans of now.
      Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans result in more induction
      both for and against cirrus, which alters SSTs, and in this case,
      since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves from west to east
      warmer waters meand colder SSTs, and these SSTs gyre around and
      create La Nina or La Nada, not El Nino. OTOH, with relatively cooler
      waters in 1997, as flaring began to occur and the air cleared of SOx,
      the colder oceans inducted less AGAINST cirrus in the Southern Oceans
      and this resulted in warm SSTs, which gyred around to give us the
      largest El Nino in at least 500 years.

      The latest satellite data for the lower troposphere:

      Global trend per decade = +0.064°C, (Northern Hemisphere = +0.136°C,
      Southern Hemisphere = - 0.008°C.)

      Global June 2002 = + 0.2°C, (Northern Hemisphere = +0.217°C, Southern
      Hemisphere = +0.183°C.)

      The asymetry between hemisphere is DIRECTLY related to what warming
      oceans mean to EMFs and cirrus--in that the Southern Ocean's added
      input of a current that moves so strongly from west to east around
      Antarctica. A warmer inducter of the oceans inducts better, and in
      this case, warmer for the northern hemisphere's oceans means on
      balance there is more induction for cirrus due to current direction .
      . .
    • fredwx
      How could warmer waters mean colder SSTs??? Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans result in more induction both for and against cirrus, which alters
      Message 2 of 17 , Jul 23, 2002
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        How could warmer waters mean colder SSTs???

        "Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans result in more
        induction both for and against cirrus, which alters SSTs, and in this
        case,since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves from west to east
        warmer waters meand colder SSTs"...

        Nevermind that I still see no strong evidence that electrical
        currents induced by ocean currents have any measurable effect on
        cirrus clouds. IMHO, any currents are too weak to be significant.
        Fred


        --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
        > http://www.spacedaily.com/news/climate-02y.html
        >
        > "In the Science paper, the El Nino-like conditions correspond to
        the
        > cold period. This is actually rather surprising," Poulsen
        said. "Most
        > climate scientists would have guessed that the cold periods would
        > correspond to La Nina-like conditions. So, it is clear that we
        don't
        > completely understand the physics that control the tropical climate
        > variability between warm and cold periods."
        >
        > Comment:
        >
        > What is occurring is much like the colder oceans, post Mt. Pinatubo
        > and pre flaring cycle peak of 1997 and oceans of now.
        > Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans result in more
        induction
        > both for and against cirrus, which alters SSTs, and in this case,
        > since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves from west to east
        > warmer waters meand colder SSTs, and these SSTs gyre around and
        > create La Nina or La Nada, not El Nino. OTOH, with relatively
        cooler
        > waters in 1997, as flaring began to occur and the air cleared of
        SOx,
        > the colder oceans inducted less AGAINST cirrus in the Southern
        Oceans
        > and this resulted in warm SSTs, which gyred around to give us the
        > largest El Nino in at least 500 years.
        >
        > The latest satellite data for the lower troposphere:
        >
        > Global trend per decade = +0.064°C, (Northern Hemisphere = +0.136°
        C,
        > Southern Hemisphere = - 0.008°C.)
        >
        > Global June 2002 = + 0.2°C, (Northern Hemisphere = +0.217°C,
        Southern
        > Hemisphere = +0.183°C.)
        >
        > The asymetry between hemisphere is DIRECTLY related to what warming
        > oceans mean to EMFs and cirrus--in that the Southern Ocean's added
        > input of a current that moves so strongly from west to east around
        > Antarctica. A warmer inducter of the oceans inducts better, and in
        > this case, warmer for the northern hemisphere's oceans means on
        > balance there is more induction for cirrus due to current
        direction .
        > . .
      • pawnfart
        is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the currents involved are NOT just the earth s EMF but currents in the context of the earth s EMF. There is a great
        Message 3 of 17 , Jul 23, 2002
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          is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the currents involved are
          NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the context of the earth's
          EMF.

          There is a great example right now in the Pacific as the SOI is near
          zero and pressures are VERY high in the equatorial regions. That
          means FAIR WEATHER voltages positive to ground and huge Doran waves.
          Well, guess what? There are FOUR tropical features in the Pacific--
          two in the E. Pac and two in the W. Pac!

          I also checked the TOA data and there remains a windless line mid
          range.

          Another interesting feature is that with the latest SSTs the La Nina
          1, 2 continues to grow. Further, in the N. Pacific the waters there
          are warm anomaly in the E. Pac where the canes start and that is why
          those E. Pac storms are forming, then cooling the SSTs that gyre
          around and you have a future with cold anomalies even in 3, 4 due to
          this. YET, in the S. Pacific in the same region, just south, SSTS
          are initinally cold gyring in from the Southern Oceans and then the
          eddy gets warm anomally in the eddy coming back because cold means
          less impeadance coming back for cirrus. This is CLEARLY reflected in
          the SST anomalies:

          http://psbsgi1.nesdis.noaa.gov:8080/PSB/EPS/SST/climo.html

          Another feature to see is the cold anomalies in the Carribean. That
          is because if you think about it, as it is July that is the same as
          January for the N. Hemisphere. For the semi tropical regions that
          means early spring. Now, if there are DAMS now on the Orinoco as the
          winter snows in the mountains start to melt and the spring rains
          come, and dams capture those early flows, hydrology is plugged, guess
          what? The Carribean becomes Gaia unhealthy. EMF impeadance is
          reduced there from the biological conditions. This is true whether
          we are talking about hydrate fields near the Orinoco or pH levels.
          Now, check out the SST anomalies there! Cold! This is how the
          season shifts, my friends.

          We have both a La Nina making mechanism in the E. Pac and a delay in
          hydrology in the Carribean working full on right now, making
          conditions EMF poor for tropical storms. OTOH, waves coming out of
          Africa are starting to feel the BENEFIT of delays of hydrology from
          West Africa dams and hydrology changes. (I haven't been able to
          figure out quite yet what the even MORE recent changes to the
          Amazon's hydrology means, but if you look in the delta and extending
          out there, there also are cold anamolies matching, again, their early
          spring. Africa had cold anomalies in early March, matching their
          spring.

          It is later in the fall (shifting season) when there is a match of
          the delayed hydrology of the South American conditions w/ the West
          African conditions that we see the season actually taking form. This
          happens to corresponded to the asymetric changes by hemisphere that
          are occurring in the Pacific, when Doran waves have really come
          strong from the E. Pac and you have that resulting warm anomaly area
          by Panama. That is why we have, from an EMF standpoint, had Mitch,
          Kevin, Iris, Caracus 1999, Michelle, and will have another Mitch like
          storm LATER in the year.

          With no SOx event from a volcano which drop phase change temperatures
          of cirrus, we can also be sure that this storm(s) will stall and
          flood.


          --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
          > How could warmer waters mean colder SSTs???
          >
          > "Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans result in more
          > induction both for and against cirrus, which alters SSTs, and in
          this
          > case,since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves from west to
          east
          > warmer waters meand colder SSTs"...
          >
          > Nevermind that I still see no strong evidence that electrical
          > currents induced by ocean currents have any measurable effect on
          > cirrus clouds. IMHO, any currents are too weak to be significant.
          > Fred
          >
          >
          > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
          > > http://www.spacedaily.com/news/climate-02y.html
          > >
          > > "In the Science paper, the El Nino-like conditions correspond to
          > the
          > > cold period. This is actually rather surprising," Poulsen
          > said. "Most
          > > climate scientists would have guessed that the cold periods would
          > > correspond to La Nina-like conditions. So, it is clear that we
          > don't
          > > completely understand the physics that control the tropical
          climate
          > > variability between warm and cold periods."
          > >
          > > Comment:
          > >
          > > What is occurring is much like the colder oceans, post Mt.
          Pinatubo
          > > and pre flaring cycle peak of 1997 and oceans of now.
          > > Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans result in more
          > induction
          > > both for and against cirrus, which alters SSTs, and in this case,
          > > since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves from west to east
          > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs, and these SSTs gyre around and
          > > create La Nina or La Nada, not El Nino. OTOH, with relatively
          > cooler
          > > waters in 1997, as flaring began to occur and the air cleared of
          > SOx,
          > > the colder oceans inducted less AGAINST cirrus in the Southern
          > Oceans
          > > and this resulted in warm SSTs, which gyred around to give us the
          > > largest El Nino in at least 500 years.
          > >
          > > The latest satellite data for the lower troposphere:
          > >
          > > Global trend per decade = +0.064°C, (Northern Hemisphere = +0.136°
          > C,
          > > Southern Hemisphere = - 0.008°C.)
          > >
          > > Global June 2002 = + 0.2°C, (Northern Hemisphere = +0.217°C,
          > Southern
          > > Hemisphere = +0.183°C.)
          > >
          > > The asymetry between hemisphere is DIRECTLY related to what
          warming
          > > oceans mean to EMFs and cirrus--in that the Southern Ocean's
          added
          > > input of a current that moves so strongly from west to east
          around
          > > Antarctica. A warmer inducter of the oceans inducts better, and
          in
          > > this case, warmer for the northern hemisphere's oceans means on
          > > balance there is more induction for cirrus due to current
          > direction .
          > > . .
        • fredwx
          Current =
          Message 4 of 17 , Jul 25, 2002
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            <<"is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the currents involved are
            NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the context of the earth's
            EMF.">>

            Current = Voltage/Impedence which implies that impedance is = or
            similar to resistance?

            I am not sure what you mean by "NOT just the earth's EMF but currents
            in the context of earth's EMF's???

            I first have to say I tend to get lost when it comes to electricity.
            Are you then saying that given the earth's magnetic field, when the
            ocean currents move perpendicular across it east-west) this will
            create an electrical current. The voltage of this electricial current
            would then be equal to electrical current times the Impedence
            (resistance)??

            Fred



            --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
            > is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the currents involved are
            > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the context of the earth's
            > EMF.
            >
            > There is a great example right now in the Pacific as the SOI is
            near
            > zero and pressures are VERY high in the equatorial regions. That
            > means FAIR WEATHER voltages positive to ground and huge Doran
            waves.
            > Well, guess what? There are FOUR tropical features in the Pacific--
            > two in the E. Pac and two in the W. Pac!
            >
            > I also checked the TOA data and there remains a windless line mid
            > range.
            >
            > Another interesting feature is that with the latest SSTs the La
            Nina
            > 1, 2 continues to grow. Further, in the N. Pacific the waters
            there
            > are warm anomaly in the E. Pac where the canes start and that is
            why
            > those E. Pac storms are forming, then cooling the SSTs that gyre
            > around and you have a future with cold anomalies even in 3, 4 due
            to
            > this. YET, in the S. Pacific in the same region, just south, SSTS
            > are initinally cold gyring in from the Southern Oceans and then the
            > eddy gets warm anomally in the eddy coming back because cold means
            > less impeadance coming back for cirrus. This is CLEARLY reflected
            in
            > the SST anomalies:
            >
            > http://psbsgi1.nesdis.noaa.gov:8080/PSB/EPS/SST/climo.html
            >
            > Another feature to see is the cold anomalies in the Carribean.
            That
            > is because if you think about it, as it is July that is the same as
            > January for the N. Hemisphere. For the semi tropical regions that
            > means early spring. Now, if there are DAMS now on the Orinoco as
            the
            > winter snows in the mountains start to melt and the spring rains
            > come, and dams capture those early flows, hydrology is plugged,
            guess
            > what? The Carribean becomes Gaia unhealthy. EMF impeadance is
            > reduced there from the biological conditions. This is true whether
            > we are talking about hydrate fields near the Orinoco or pH levels.
            > Now, check out the SST anomalies there! Cold! This is how the
            > season shifts, my friends.
            >
            > We have both a La Nina making mechanism in the E. Pac and a delay
            in
            > hydrology in the Carribean working full on right now, making
            > conditions EMF poor for tropical storms. OTOH, waves coming out of
            > Africa are starting to feel the BENEFIT of delays of hydrology from
            > West Africa dams and hydrology changes. (I haven't been able to
            > figure out quite yet what the even MORE recent changes to the
            > Amazon's hydrology means, but if you look in the delta and
            extending
            > out there, there also are cold anamolies matching, again, their
            early
            > spring. Africa had cold anomalies in early March, matching their
            > spring.
            >
            > It is later in the fall (shifting season) when there is a match of
            > the delayed hydrology of the South American conditions w/ the West
            > African conditions that we see the season actually taking form.
            This
            > happens to corresponded to the asymetric changes by hemisphere that
            > are occurring in the Pacific, when Doran waves have really come
            > strong from the E. Pac and you have that resulting warm anomaly
            area
            > by Panama. That is why we have, from an EMF standpoint, had Mitch,
            > Kevin, Iris, Caracus 1999, Michelle, and will have another Mitch
            like
            > storm LATER in the year.
            >
            > With no SOx event from a volcano which drop phase change
            temperatures
            > of cirrus, we can also be sure that this storm(s) will stall and
            > flood.
            >
            >
            > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
            > > How could warmer waters mean colder SSTs???
            > >
            > > "Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans result in more
            > > induction both for and against cirrus, which alters SSTs, and in
            > this
            > > case,since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves from west to
            > east
            > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs"...
            > >
            > > Nevermind that I still see no strong evidence that electrical
            > > currents induced by ocean currents have any measurable effect on
            > > cirrus clouds. IMHO, any currents are too weak to be significant.
            > > Fred
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
            > > > http://www.spacedaily.com/news/climate-02y.html
            > > >
            > > > "In the Science paper, the El Nino-like conditions correspond
            to
            > > the
            > > > cold period. This is actually rather surprising," Poulsen
            > > said. "Most
            > > > climate scientists would have guessed that the cold periods
            would
            > > > correspond to La Nina-like conditions. So, it is clear that we
            > > don't
            > > > completely understand the physics that control the tropical
            > climate
            > > > variability between warm and cold periods."
            > > >
            > > > Comment:
            > > >
            > > > What is occurring is much like the colder oceans, post Mt.
            > Pinatubo
            > > > and pre flaring cycle peak of 1997 and oceans of now.
            > > > Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans result in more
            > > induction
            > > > both for and against cirrus, which alters SSTs, and in this
            case,
            > > > since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves from west to east
            > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs, and these SSTs gyre around and
            > > > create La Nina or La Nada, not El Nino. OTOH, with relatively
            > > cooler
            > > > waters in 1997, as flaring began to occur and the air cleared
            of
            > > SOx,
            > > > the colder oceans inducted less AGAINST cirrus in the Southern
            > > Oceans
            > > > and this resulted in warm SSTs, which gyred around to give us
            the
            > > > largest El Nino in at least 500 years.
            > > >
            > > > The latest satellite data for the lower troposphere:
            > > >
            > > > Global trend per decade = +0.064°C, (Northern Hemisphere =
            +0.136°
            > > C,
            > > > Southern Hemisphere = - 0.008°C.)
            > > >
            > > > Global June 2002 = + 0.2°C, (Northern Hemisphere = +0.217°C,
            > > Southern
            > > > Hemisphere = +0.183°C.)
            > > >
            > > > The asymetry between hemisphere is DIRECTLY related to what
            > warming
            > > > oceans mean to EMFs and cirrus--in that the Southern Ocean's
            > added
            > > > input of a current that moves so strongly from west to east
            > around
            > > > Antarctica. A warmer inducter of the oceans inducts better, and
            > in
            > > > this case, warmer for the northern hemisphere's oceans means on
            > > > balance there is more induction for cirrus due to current
            > > direction .
            > > > . .
          • pawnfart
            ... are ... Yes it is. It INCLUDES resistance. Capacitance. Inductance. Hence, SSTs is part of its measure. ... currents ... As you know, I have put up this
            Message 5 of 17 , Jul 25, 2002
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              --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
              > <<"is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the currents involved
              are
              > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the context of the earth's
              > EMF.">>
              >
              > Current = Voltage/Impedence which implies that impedance is = or
              > similar to resistance?

              Yes it is. It INCLUDES resistance. Capacitance. Inductance. Hence,
              SSTs is part of its measure.




              >
              > I am not sure what you mean by "NOT just the earth's EMF but
              currents
              > in the context of earth's EMF's???
              >

              As you know, I have put up this link to an abstract about measurable
              induction by ocean currents:

              http://www.gfdl.gov/~gth/netscape/1992/dbs9201.html

              BUT, this is merely what ocean currents are like in the context of
              the earth's EMF and ignores the "noise" of other EMFs. What I am
              saying is that when a strike occurs this itself has an EMF in that
              locality and for that short period, with itself is ORGANIZED in the
              context of the earth's EMF. Hence, direction of current for these
              outliners or noise is going to be more significant because we are
              dealing with larger EMFs. Just by itself, the earth's EMF is fairly
              small, so the induction off of it is likewise small. But in the
              context of upper atmospheric EMFs then the direction of ocean
              currents start to matter for their inductive properties depending on
              their direction. THEN, this induction sums to be significant the
              inductance subpart of impedence. Hence, when a Doran wave goes
              through the pulse of ions is met with a varying EMF condition!

              In this context here is from TWC where a poster was commenting on why
              in the N. Atlantic TS development won't go toward the equator and my
              response:

              ". . . then it's the ITCZ position that is limiting development. NOT
              Coriolois. Coriolois is exactly equal at the same latitudes all over
              the world, 365 days a year. If it was Coriolois limiting development
              in the CV region in the North Atlantic, it wouldn't "Change" during
              the year."

              "What makes the North Atlantic unusual is the dependence of formation
              of storms on the African Easterly Jet (AEJ); it simply never gets
              that far south to spit out a perturbation that far south."

              My response:

              YES coriolis is important, but not for the reasons so far stated.

              LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical systems are electrical.

              Doran waves are critical to this EMF dynamic, and that means dry
              strips in the warm, tropical waters. This is where the counter blows.
              Or dulldrums at worst. This makes for good fair weather voltages
              positive 250 volts to ground. Induction, IOW, offers nothing more to
              impedance.

              If you have very warm waters and induction from west to east these
              waters will really be good proton catchers. That leaves electrons in
              the ionosphere for the ITCZ. Or Doran waves.

              Further, coriolis will help define the inner EMF dynamic of the TS
              itself.

              Finally, landfalling brings about EMF questions of EMF potentials
              between land and ocean and monsoons are their own EMF dynamics, which
              can overcome the gyres/counter EMFs dynamics.

              Understand we are talking about HUGE IR values under cirrus. No EMF,
              no cirrus, no warm core lows.

              +++++

              I would additionally add that the jet stream is going to cause EMF
              instability as well as air pressure instability, and that EMF
              instability is more why storms occur along the jets, as dry
              lines/patches/strips meeting areas of conductivity means that youll
              have areas where cirrus are enhanced toward the ionosphere in a VERY
              strong manner and there won't be lack of negitive charges in the
              ionosphere as there is so much positive to ground voltages all around
              the place of instability. This means that you will have IR values
              under the cirrus that are very high and nearby air that doesn't
              retain any heat and this spells for strong exchanges of energy.

              This dynamic, from an EMF standpoint, differs from the tropical
              storm, which has the negitive charges above the warm core low, with
              positive charges above the cirrus, so positive that the upper clouds
              can't ever reach the potential differences by themselves being more
              positive yet, to discharge that difference with sprites and elves,
              and hence they to move upwards, enhanced by the positive charges
              around the eye. Near the eye it is interesting that strike activity
              is rare. That is because the upper clouds and ionosphere is so
              positively charged that it is difficult to take more electrons away,
              even from the lower clouds toward a positively charged ocean surface.

              The ocean itself tends toward nuetral and basic pH, btw. Land, otoh,
              will have a more acidic pH and more protons there for a moving front
              to move up to the high clouds from the ground. The insulative
              properties of hydrates and the pH of the oceans, of course, is all
              biologically connected, so one could see how waves coming off of W.
              Africa that mean biologically active as opposed to not active could
              die or not, become tropical or not, depending on those conditions.





              > I first have to say I tend to get lost when it comes to
              electricity.
              > Are you then saying that given the earth's magnetic field, when the
              > ocean currents move perpendicular across it east-west) this will
              > create an electrical current. The voltage of this electricial
              current
              > would then be equal to electrical current times the Impedence
              > (resistance)??
              >
              > Fred
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
              > > is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the currents involved
              are
              > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the context of the
              earth's
              > > EMF.
              > >
              > > There is a great example right now in the Pacific as the SOI is
              > near
              > > zero and pressures are VERY high in the equatorial regions. That
              > > means FAIR WEATHER voltages positive to ground and huge Doran
              > waves.
              > > Well, guess what? There are FOUR tropical features in the
              Pacific--
              > > two in the E. Pac and two in the W. Pac!
              > >
              > > I also checked the TOA data and there remains a windless line mid
              > > range.
              > >
              > > Another interesting feature is that with the latest SSTs the La
              > Nina
              > > 1, 2 continues to grow. Further, in the N. Pacific the waters
              > there
              > > are warm anomaly in the E. Pac where the canes start and that is
              > why
              > > those E. Pac storms are forming, then cooling the SSTs that gyre
              > > around and you have a future with cold anomalies even in 3, 4 due
              > to
              > > this. YET, in the S. Pacific in the same region, just south,
              SSTS
              > > are initinally cold gyring in from the Southern Oceans and then
              the
              > > eddy gets warm anomally in the eddy coming back because cold
              means
              > > less impeadance coming back for cirrus. This is CLEARLY
              reflected
              > in
              > > the SST anomalies:
              > >
              > > http://psbsgi1.nesdis.noaa.gov:8080/PSB/EPS/SST/climo.html
              > >
              > > Another feature to see is the cold anomalies in the Carribean.
              > That
              > > is because if you think about it, as it is July that is the same
              as
              > > January for the N. Hemisphere. For the semi tropical regions
              that
              > > means early spring. Now, if there are DAMS now on the Orinoco as
              > the
              > > winter snows in the mountains start to melt and the spring rains
              > > come, and dams capture those early flows, hydrology is plugged,
              > guess
              > > what? The Carribean becomes Gaia unhealthy. EMF impeadance is
              > > reduced there from the biological conditions. This is true
              whether
              > > we are talking about hydrate fields near the Orinoco or pH
              levels.
              > > Now, check out the SST anomalies there! Cold! This is how the
              > > season shifts, my friends.
              > >
              > > We have both a La Nina making mechanism in the E. Pac and a delay
              > in
              > > hydrology in the Carribean working full on right now, making
              > > conditions EMF poor for tropical storms. OTOH, waves coming out
              of
              > > Africa are starting to feel the BENEFIT of delays of hydrology
              from
              > > West Africa dams and hydrology changes. (I haven't been able to
              > > figure out quite yet what the even MORE recent changes to the
              > > Amazon's hydrology means, but if you look in the delta and
              > extending
              > > out there, there also are cold anamolies matching, again, their
              > early
              > > spring. Africa had cold anomalies in early March, matching their
              > > spring.
              > >
              > > It is later in the fall (shifting season) when there is a match
              of
              > > the delayed hydrology of the South American conditions w/ the
              West
              > > African conditions that we see the season actually taking form.
              > This
              > > happens to corresponded to the asymetric changes by hemisphere
              that
              > > are occurring in the Pacific, when Doran waves have really come
              > > strong from the E. Pac and you have that resulting warm anomaly
              > area
              > > by Panama. That is why we have, from an EMF standpoint, had
              Mitch,
              > > Kevin, Iris, Caracus 1999, Michelle, and will have another Mitch
              > like
              > > storm LATER in the year.
              > >
              > > With no SOx event from a volcano which drop phase change
              > temperatures
              > > of cirrus, we can also be sure that this storm(s) will stall and
              > > flood.
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
              > > > How could warmer waters mean colder SSTs???
              > > >
              > > > "Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans result in more
              > > > induction both for and against cirrus, which alters SSTs, and
              in
              > > this
              > > > case,since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves from west to
              > > east
              > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs"...
              > > >
              > > > Nevermind that I still see no strong evidence that electrical
              > > > currents induced by ocean currents have any measurable effect
              on
              > > > cirrus clouds. IMHO, any currents are too weak to be
              significant.
              > > > Fred
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
              > > > > http://www.spacedaily.com/news/climate-02y.html
              > > > >
              > > > > "In the Science paper, the El Nino-like conditions correspond
              > to
              > > > the
              > > > > cold period. This is actually rather surprising," Poulsen
              > > > said. "Most
              > > > > climate scientists would have guessed that the cold periods
              > would
              > > > > correspond to La Nina-like conditions. So, it is clear that
              we
              > > > don't
              > > > > completely understand the physics that control the tropical
              > > climate
              > > > > variability between warm and cold periods."
              > > > >
              > > > > Comment:
              > > > >
              > > > > What is occurring is much like the colder oceans, post Mt.
              > > Pinatubo
              > > > > and pre flaring cycle peak of 1997 and oceans of now.
              > > > > Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans result in more
              > > > induction
              > > > > both for and against cirrus, which alters SSTs, and in this
              > case,
              > > > > since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves from west to
              east
              > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs, and these SSTs gyre around
              and
              > > > > create La Nina or La Nada, not El Nino. OTOH, with relatively
              > > > cooler
              > > > > waters in 1997, as flaring began to occur and the air cleared
              > of
              > > > SOx,
              > > > > the colder oceans inducted less AGAINST cirrus in the
              Southern
              > > > Oceans
              > > > > and this resulted in warm SSTs, which gyred around to give us
              > the
              > > > > largest El Nino in at least 500 years.
              > > > >
              > > > > The latest satellite data for the lower troposphere:
              > > > >
              > > > > Global trend per decade = +0.064°C, (Northern Hemisphere =
              > +0.136°
              > > > C,
              > > > > Southern Hemisphere = - 0.008°C.)
              > > > >
              > > > > Global June 2002 = + 0.2°C, (Northern Hemisphere = +0.217°C,
              > > > Southern
              > > > > Hemisphere = +0.183°C.)
              > > > >
              > > > > The asymetry between hemisphere is DIRECTLY related to what
              > > warming
              > > > > oceans mean to EMFs and cirrus--in that the Southern Ocean's
              > > added
              > > > > input of a current that moves so strongly from west to east
              > > around
              > > > > Antarctica. A warmer inducter of the oceans inducts better,
              and
              > > in
              > > > > this case, warmer for the northern hemisphere's oceans means
              on
              > > > > balance there is more induction for cirrus due to current
              > > > direction .
              > > > > . .
            • fredwx
              If I remember correctly impedance is related to
              Message 6 of 17 , Jul 29, 2002
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                <<"Yes it is. It INCLUDES resistance. Capacitance. Inductance. Hence,
                SSTs is part of its measure.">>

                If I remember correctly impedance is related to alternating current
                and resistance to direct current. I assume we have been talking about
                direct current here.

                If I understand this correctly the SST is directly related to the
                resistance of current through sea water. In other words, the warmer
                the temps, the lower the resistance and therefore resulting in higher
                electrical currents (those generated by the sea water moving through
                the earth's magnetic field)?

                I am unclear how SST's measure capacitance?

                Fred




                --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                > > <<"is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the currents involved
                > are
                > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the context of the
                earth's
                > > EMF.">>
                > >
                > > Current = Voltage/Impedence which implies that impedance is = or
                > > similar to resistance?
                >
                > Yes it is. It INCLUDES resistance. Capacitance. Inductance.
                Hence,
                > SSTs is part of its measure.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > >
                > > I am not sure what you mean by "NOT just the earth's EMF but
                > currents
                > > in the context of earth's EMF's???
                > >
                >
                > As you know, I have put up this link to an abstract about
                measurable
                > induction by ocean currents:
                >
                > http://www.gfdl.gov/~gth/netscape/1992/dbs9201.html
                >
                > BUT, this is merely what ocean currents are like in the context of
                > the earth's EMF and ignores the "noise" of other EMFs. What I am
                > saying is that when a strike occurs this itself has an EMF in that
                > locality and for that short period, with itself is ORGANIZED in the
                > context of the earth's EMF. Hence, direction of current for these
                > outliners or noise is going to be more significant because we are
                > dealing with larger EMFs. Just by itself, the earth's EMF is
                fairly
                > small, so the induction off of it is likewise small. But in the
                > context of upper atmospheric EMFs then the direction of ocean
                > currents start to matter for their inductive properties depending
                on
                > their direction. THEN, this induction sums to be significant the
                > inductance subpart of impedence. Hence, when a Doran wave goes
                > through the pulse of ions is met with a varying EMF condition!
                >
                > In this context here is from TWC where a poster was commenting on
                why
                > in the N. Atlantic TS development won't go toward the equator and
                my
                > response:
                >
                > ". . . then it's the ITCZ position that is limiting development.
                NOT
                > Coriolois. Coriolois is exactly equal at the same latitudes all
                over
                > the world, 365 days a year. If it was Coriolois limiting
                development
                > in the CV region in the North Atlantic, it wouldn't "Change" during
                > the year."
                >
                > "What makes the North Atlantic unusual is the dependence of
                formation
                > of storms on the African Easterly Jet (AEJ); it simply never gets
                > that far south to spit out a perturbation that far south."
                >
                > My response:
                >
                > YES coriolis is important, but not for the reasons so far stated.
                >
                > LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical systems are electrical.
                >
                > Doran waves are critical to this EMF dynamic, and that means dry
                > strips in the warm, tropical waters. This is where the counter
                blows.
                > Or dulldrums at worst. This makes for good fair weather voltages
                > positive 250 volts to ground. Induction, IOW, offers nothing more
                to
                > impedance.
                >
                > If you have very warm waters and induction from west to east these
                > waters will really be good proton catchers. That leaves electrons
                in
                > the ionosphere for the ITCZ. Or Doran waves.
                >
                > Further, coriolis will help define the inner EMF dynamic of the TS
                > itself.
                >
                > Finally, landfalling brings about EMF questions of EMF potentials
                > between land and ocean and monsoons are their own EMF dynamics,
                which
                > can overcome the gyres/counter EMFs dynamics.
                >
                > Understand we are talking about HUGE IR values under cirrus. No
                EMF,
                > no cirrus, no warm core lows.
                >
                > +++++
                >
                > I would additionally add that the jet stream is going to cause EMF
                > instability as well as air pressure instability, and that EMF
                > instability is more why storms occur along the jets, as dry
                > lines/patches/strips meeting areas of conductivity means that youll
                > have areas where cirrus are enhanced toward the ionosphere in a
                VERY
                > strong manner and there won't be lack of negitive charges in the
                > ionosphere as there is so much positive to ground voltages all
                around
                > the place of instability. This means that you will have IR values
                > under the cirrus that are very high and nearby air that doesn't
                > retain any heat and this spells for strong exchanges of energy.
                >
                > This dynamic, from an EMF standpoint, differs from the tropical
                > storm, which has the negitive charges above the warm core low, with
                > positive charges above the cirrus, so positive that the upper
                clouds
                > can't ever reach the potential differences by themselves being more
                > positive yet, to discharge that difference with sprites and elves,
                > and hence they to move upwards, enhanced by the positive charges
                > around the eye. Near the eye it is interesting that strike
                activity
                > is rare. That is because the upper clouds and ionosphere is so
                > positively charged that it is difficult to take more electrons
                away,
                > even from the lower clouds toward a positively charged ocean
                surface.
                >
                > The ocean itself tends toward nuetral and basic pH, btw. Land,
                otoh,
                > will have a more acidic pH and more protons there for a moving
                front
                > to move up to the high clouds from the ground. The insulative
                > properties of hydrates and the pH of the oceans, of course, is all
                > biologically connected, so one could see how waves coming off of W.
                > Africa that mean biologically active as opposed to not active could
                > die or not, become tropical or not, depending on those conditions.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > > I first have to say I tend to get lost when it comes to
                > electricity.
                > > Are you then saying that given the earth's magnetic field, when
                the
                > > ocean currents move perpendicular across it east-west) this will
                > > create an electrical current. The voltage of this electricial
                > current
                > > would then be equal to electrical current times the Impedence
                > > (resistance)??
                > >
                > > Fred
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
                > > > is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the currents involved
                > are
                > > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the context of the
                > earth's
                > > > EMF.
                > > >
                > > > There is a great example right now in the Pacific as the SOI is
                > > near
                > > > zero and pressures are VERY high in the equatorial regions.
                That
                > > > means FAIR WEATHER voltages positive to ground and huge Doran
                > > waves.
                > > > Well, guess what? There are FOUR tropical features in the
                > Pacific--
                > > > two in the E. Pac and two in the W. Pac!
                > > >
                > > > I also checked the TOA data and there remains a windless line
                mid
                > > > range.
                > > >
                > > > Another interesting feature is that with the latest SSTs the La
                > > Nina
                > > > 1, 2 continues to grow. Further, in the N. Pacific the waters
                > > there
                > > > are warm anomaly in the E. Pac where the canes start and that
                is
                > > why
                > > > those E. Pac storms are forming, then cooling the SSTs that
                gyre
                > > > around and you have a future with cold anomalies even in 3, 4
                due
                > > to
                > > > this. YET, in the S. Pacific in the same region, just south,
                > SSTS
                > > > are initinally cold gyring in from the Southern Oceans and then
                > the
                > > > eddy gets warm anomally in the eddy coming back because cold
                > means
                > > > less impeadance coming back for cirrus. This is CLEARLY
                > reflected
                > > in
                > > > the SST anomalies:
                > > >
                > > > http://psbsgi1.nesdis.noaa.gov:8080/PSB/EPS/SST/climo.html
                > > >
                > > > Another feature to see is the cold anomalies in the Carribean.
                > > That
                > > > is because if you think about it, as it is July that is the
                same
                > as
                > > > January for the N. Hemisphere. For the semi tropical regions
                > that
                > > > means early spring. Now, if there are DAMS now on the Orinoco
                as
                > > the
                > > > winter snows in the mountains start to melt and the spring
                rains
                > > > come, and dams capture those early flows, hydrology is plugged,
                > > guess
                > > > what? The Carribean becomes Gaia unhealthy. EMF impeadance is
                > > > reduced there from the biological conditions. This is true
                > whether
                > > > we are talking about hydrate fields near the Orinoco or pH
                > levels.
                > > > Now, check out the SST anomalies there! Cold! This is how the
                > > > season shifts, my friends.
                > > >
                > > > We have both a La Nina making mechanism in the E. Pac and a
                delay
                > > in
                > > > hydrology in the Carribean working full on right now, making
                > > > conditions EMF poor for tropical storms. OTOH, waves coming
                out
                > of
                > > > Africa are starting to feel the BENEFIT of delays of hydrology
                > from
                > > > West Africa dams and hydrology changes. (I haven't been able to
                > > > figure out quite yet what the even MORE recent changes to the
                > > > Amazon's hydrology means, but if you look in the delta and
                > > extending
                > > > out there, there also are cold anamolies matching, again, their
                > > early
                > > > spring. Africa had cold anomalies in early March, matching
                their
                > > > spring.
                > > >
                > > > It is later in the fall (shifting season) when there is a match
                > of
                > > > the delayed hydrology of the South American conditions w/ the
                > West
                > > > African conditions that we see the season actually taking
                form.
                > > This
                > > > happens to corresponded to the asymetric changes by hemisphere
                > that
                > > > are occurring in the Pacific, when Doran waves have really come
                > > > strong from the E. Pac and you have that resulting warm anomaly
                > > area
                > > > by Panama. That is why we have, from an EMF standpoint, had
                > Mitch,
                > > > Kevin, Iris, Caracus 1999, Michelle, and will have another
                Mitch
                > > like
                > > > storm LATER in the year.
                > > >
                > > > With no SOx event from a volcano which drop phase change
                > > temperatures
                > > > of cirrus, we can also be sure that this storm(s) will stall
                and
                > > > flood.
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                > > > > How could warmer waters mean colder SSTs???
                > > > >
                > > > > "Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans result in more
                > > > > induction both for and against cirrus, which alters SSTs, and
                > in
                > > > this
                > > > > case,since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves from west
                to
                > > > east
                > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs"...
                > > > >
                > > > > Nevermind that I still see no strong evidence that electrical
                > > > > currents induced by ocean currents have any measurable effect
                > on
                > > > > cirrus clouds. IMHO, any currents are too weak to be
                > significant.
                > > > > Fred
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
                > > > > > http://www.spacedaily.com/news/climate-02y.html
                > > > > >
                > > > > > "In the Science paper, the El Nino-like conditions
                correspond
                > > to
                > > > > the
                > > > > > cold period. This is actually rather surprising," Poulsen
                > > > > said. "Most
                > > > > > climate scientists would have guessed that the cold periods
                > > would
                > > > > > correspond to La Nina-like conditions. So, it is clear that
                > we
                > > > > don't
                > > > > > completely understand the physics that control the tropical
                > > > climate
                > > > > > variability between warm and cold periods."
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Comment:
                > > > > >
                > > > > > What is occurring is much like the colder oceans, post Mt.
                > > > Pinatubo
                > > > > > and pre flaring cycle peak of 1997 and oceans of now.
                > > > > > Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans result in more
                > > > > induction
                > > > > > both for and against cirrus, which alters SSTs, and in this
                > > case,
                > > > > > since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves from west to
                > east
                > > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs, and these SSTs gyre around
                > and
                > > > > > create La Nina or La Nada, not El Nino. OTOH, with
                relatively
                > > > > cooler
                > > > > > waters in 1997, as flaring began to occur and the air
                cleared
                > > of
                > > > > SOx,
                > > > > > the colder oceans inducted less AGAINST cirrus in the
                > Southern
                > > > > Oceans
                > > > > > and this resulted in warm SSTs, which gyred around to give
                us
                > > the
                > > > > > largest El Nino in at least 500 years.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > The latest satellite data for the lower troposphere:
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Global trend per decade = +0.064°C, (Northern Hemisphere =
                > > +0.136°
                > > > > C,
                > > > > > Southern Hemisphere = - 0.008°C.)
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Global June 2002 = + 0.2°C, (Northern Hemisphere = +0.217°
                C,
                > > > > Southern
                > > > > > Hemisphere = +0.183°C.)
                > > > > >
                > > > > > The asymetry between hemisphere is DIRECTLY related to what
                > > > warming
                > > > > > oceans mean to EMFs and cirrus--in that the Southern
                Ocean's
                > > > added
                > > > > > input of a current that moves so strongly from west to east
                > > > around
                > > > > > Antarctica. A warmer inducter of the oceans inducts better,
                > and
                > > > in
                > > > > > this case, warmer for the northern hemisphere's oceans
                means
                > on
                > > > > > balance there is more induction for cirrus due to current
                > > > > direction .
                > > > > > . .
              • fredwx
                On that link it says: The magnetic fields generated by
                Message 7 of 17 , Jul 29, 2002
                View Source
                • 0 Attachment
                  <<"As you know, I have put up this link to an abstract about
                  measurable induction by ocean currents:">>

                  On that link it says:

                  "The magnetic fields generated by ocean currents are of the order of
                  1 nT, and while these can be measured by magnetometers, they would be
                  difficult to detect owing to contamination from other sources of
                  magnetic variation."

                  It still seems to me that with such a low magnetic field generated,
                  The currents must also be very small and therefore not significant
                  enough to influence the cirrus clouds above.

                  Fred

                  --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                  > > <<"is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the currents involved
                  > are
                  > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the context of the
                  earth's
                  > > EMF.">>
                  > >
                  > > Current = Voltage/Impedence which implies that impedance is = or
                  > > similar to resistance?
                  >
                  > Yes it is. It INCLUDES resistance. Capacitance. Inductance.
                  Hence,
                  > SSTs is part of its measure.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > >
                  > > I am not sure what you mean by "NOT just the earth's EMF but
                  > currents
                  > > in the context of earth's EMF's???
                  > >
                  >
                  > As you know, I have put up this link to an abstract about
                  measurable
                  > induction by ocean currents:
                  >
                  > http://www.gfdl.gov/~gth/netscape/1992/dbs9201.html
                  >
                  > BUT, this is merely what ocean currents are like in the context of
                  > the earth's EMF and ignores the "noise" of other EMFs. What I am
                  > saying is that when a strike occurs this itself has an EMF in that
                  > locality and for that short period, with itself is ORGANIZED in the
                  > context of the earth's EMF. Hence, direction of current for these
                  > outliners or noise is going to be more significant because we are
                  > dealing with larger EMFs. Just by itself, the earth's EMF is
                  fairly
                  > small, so the induction off of it is likewise small. But in the
                  > context of upper atmospheric EMFs then the direction of ocean
                  > currents start to matter for their inductive properties depending
                  on
                  > their direction. THEN, this induction sums to be significant the
                  > inductance subpart of impedence. Hence, when a Doran wave goes
                  > through the pulse of ions is met with a varying EMF condition!
                  >
                  > In this context here is from TWC where a poster was commenting on
                  why
                  > in the N. Atlantic TS development won't go toward the equator and
                  my
                  > response:
                  >
                  > ". . . then it's the ITCZ position that is limiting development.
                  NOT
                  > Coriolois. Coriolois is exactly equal at the same latitudes all
                  over
                  > the world, 365 days a year. If it was Coriolois limiting
                  development
                  > in the CV region in the North Atlantic, it wouldn't "Change" during
                  > the year."
                  >
                  > "What makes the North Atlantic unusual is the dependence of
                  formation
                  > of storms on the African Easterly Jet (AEJ); it simply never gets
                  > that far south to spit out a perturbation that far south."
                  >
                  > My response:
                  >
                  > YES coriolis is important, but not for the reasons so far stated.
                  >
                  > LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical systems are electrical.
                  >
                  > Doran waves are critical to this EMF dynamic, and that means dry
                  > strips in the warm, tropical waters. This is where the counter
                  blows.
                  > Or dulldrums at worst. This makes for good fair weather voltages
                  > positive 250 volts to ground. Induction, IOW, offers nothing more
                  to
                  > impedance.
                  >
                  > If you have very warm waters and induction from west to east these
                  > waters will really be good proton catchers. That leaves electrons
                  in
                  > the ionosphere for the ITCZ. Or Doran waves.
                  >
                  > Further, coriolis will help define the inner EMF dynamic of the TS
                  > itself.
                  >
                  > Finally, landfalling brings about EMF questions of EMF potentials
                  > between land and ocean and monsoons are their own EMF dynamics,
                  which
                  > can overcome the gyres/counter EMFs dynamics.
                  >
                  > Understand we are talking about HUGE IR values under cirrus. No
                  EMF,
                  > no cirrus, no warm core lows.
                  >
                  > +++++
                  >
                  > I would additionally add that the jet stream is going to cause EMF
                  > instability as well as air pressure instability, and that EMF
                  > instability is more why storms occur along the jets, as dry
                  > lines/patches/strips meeting areas of conductivity means that youll
                  > have areas where cirrus are enhanced toward the ionosphere in a
                  VERY
                  > strong manner and there won't be lack of negitive charges in the
                  > ionosphere as there is so much positive to ground voltages all
                  around
                  > the place of instability. This means that you will have IR values
                  > under the cirrus that are very high and nearby air that doesn't
                  > retain any heat and this spells for strong exchanges of energy.
                  >
                  > This dynamic, from an EMF standpoint, differs from the tropical
                  > storm, which has the negitive charges above the warm core low, with
                  > positive charges above the cirrus, so positive that the upper
                  clouds
                  > can't ever reach the potential differences by themselves being more
                  > positive yet, to discharge that difference with sprites and elves,
                  > and hence they to move upwards, enhanced by the positive charges
                  > around the eye. Near the eye it is interesting that strike
                  activity
                  > is rare. That is because the upper clouds and ionosphere is so
                  > positively charged that it is difficult to take more electrons
                  away,
                  > even from the lower clouds toward a positively charged ocean
                  surface.
                  >
                  > The ocean itself tends toward nuetral and basic pH, btw. Land,
                  otoh,
                  > will have a more acidic pH and more protons there for a moving
                  front
                  > to move up to the high clouds from the ground. The insulative
                  > properties of hydrates and the pH of the oceans, of course, is all
                  > biologically connected, so one could see how waves coming off of W.
                  > Africa that mean biologically active as opposed to not active could
                  > die or not, become tropical or not, depending on those conditions.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > > I first have to say I tend to get lost when it comes to
                  > electricity.
                  > > Are you then saying that given the earth's magnetic field, when
                  the
                  > > ocean currents move perpendicular across it east-west) this will
                  > > create an electrical current. The voltage of this electricial
                  > current
                  > > would then be equal to electrical current times the Impedence
                  > > (resistance)??
                  > >
                  > > Fred
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
                  > > > is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the currents involved
                  > are
                  > > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the context of the
                  > earth's
                  > > > EMF.
                  > > >
                  > > > There is a great example right now in the Pacific as the SOI is
                  > > near
                  > > > zero and pressures are VERY high in the equatorial regions.
                  That
                  > > > means FAIR WEATHER voltages positive to ground and huge Doran
                  > > waves.
                  > > > Well, guess what? There are FOUR tropical features in the
                  > Pacific--
                  > > > two in the E. Pac and two in the W. Pac!
                  > > >
                  > > > I also checked the TOA data and there remains a windless line
                  mid
                  > > > range.
                  > > >
                  > > > Another interesting feature is that with the latest SSTs the La
                  > > Nina
                  > > > 1, 2 continues to grow. Further, in the N. Pacific the waters
                  > > there
                  > > > are warm anomaly in the E. Pac where the canes start and that
                  is
                  > > why
                  > > > those E. Pac storms are forming, then cooling the SSTs that
                  gyre
                  > > > around and you have a future with cold anomalies even in 3, 4
                  due
                  > > to
                  > > > this. YET, in the S. Pacific in the same region, just south,
                  > SSTS
                  > > > are initinally cold gyring in from the Southern Oceans and then
                  > the
                  > > > eddy gets warm anomally in the eddy coming back because cold
                  > means
                  > > > less impeadance coming back for cirrus. This is CLEARLY
                  > reflected
                  > > in
                  > > > the SST anomalies:
                  > > >
                  > > > http://psbsgi1.nesdis.noaa.gov:8080/PSB/EPS/SST/climo.html
                  > > >
                  > > > Another feature to see is the cold anomalies in the Carribean.
                  > > That
                  > > > is because if you think about it, as it is July that is the
                  same
                  > as
                  > > > January for the N. Hemisphere. For the semi tropical regions
                  > that
                  > > > means early spring. Now, if there are DAMS now on the Orinoco
                  as
                  > > the
                  > > > winter snows in the mountains start to melt and the spring
                  rains
                  > > > come, and dams capture those early flows, hydrology is plugged,
                  > > guess
                  > > > what? The Carribean becomes Gaia unhealthy. EMF impeadance is
                  > > > reduced there from the biological conditions. This is true
                  > whether
                  > > > we are talking about hydrate fields near the Orinoco or pH
                  > levels.
                  > > > Now, check out the SST anomalies there! Cold! This is how the
                  > > > season shifts, my friends.
                  > > >
                  > > > We have both a La Nina making mechanism in the E. Pac and a
                  delay
                  > > in
                  > > > hydrology in the Carribean working full on right now, making
                  > > > conditions EMF poor for tropical storms. OTOH, waves coming
                  out
                  > of
                  > > > Africa are starting to feel the BENEFIT of delays of hydrology
                  > from
                  > > > West Africa dams and hydrology changes. (I haven't been able to
                  > > > figure out quite yet what the even MORE recent changes to the
                  > > > Amazon's hydrology means, but if you look in the delta and
                  > > extending
                  > > > out there, there also are cold anamolies matching, again, their
                  > > early
                  > > > spring. Africa had cold anomalies in early March, matching
                  their
                  > > > spring.
                  > > >
                  > > > It is later in the fall (shifting season) when there is a match
                  > of
                  > > > the delayed hydrology of the South American conditions w/ the
                  > West
                  > > > African conditions that we see the season actually taking
                  form.
                  > > This
                  > > > happens to corresponded to the asymetric changes by hemisphere
                  > that
                  > > > are occurring in the Pacific, when Doran waves have really come
                  > > > strong from the E. Pac and you have that resulting warm anomaly
                  > > area
                  > > > by Panama. That is why we have, from an EMF standpoint, had
                  > Mitch,
                  > > > Kevin, Iris, Caracus 1999, Michelle, and will have another
                  Mitch
                  > > like
                  > > > storm LATER in the year.
                  > > >
                  > > > With no SOx event from a volcano which drop phase change
                  > > temperatures
                  > > > of cirrus, we can also be sure that this storm(s) will stall
                  and
                  > > > flood.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                  > > > > How could warmer waters mean colder SSTs???
                  > > > >
                  > > > > "Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans result in more
                  > > > > induction both for and against cirrus, which alters SSTs, and
                  > in
                  > > > this
                  > > > > case,since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves from west
                  to
                  > > > east
                  > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs"...
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Nevermind that I still see no strong evidence that electrical
                  > > > > currents induced by ocean currents have any measurable effect
                  > on
                  > > > > cirrus clouds. IMHO, any currents are too weak to be
                  > significant.
                  > > > > Fred
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
                  > > > > > http://www.spacedaily.com/news/climate-02y.html
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > "In the Science paper, the El Nino-like conditions
                  correspond
                  > > to
                  > > > > the
                  > > > > > cold period. This is actually rather surprising," Poulsen
                  > > > > said. "Most
                  > > > > > climate scientists would have guessed that the cold periods
                  > > would
                  > > > > > correspond to La Nina-like conditions. So, it is clear that
                  > we
                  > > > > don't
                  > > > > > completely understand the physics that control the tropical
                  > > > climate
                  > > > > > variability between warm and cold periods."
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Comment:
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > What is occurring is much like the colder oceans, post Mt.
                  > > > Pinatubo
                  > > > > > and pre flaring cycle peak of 1997 and oceans of now.
                  > > > > > Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans result in more
                  > > > > induction
                  > > > > > both for and against cirrus, which alters SSTs, and in this
                  > > case,
                  > > > > > since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves from west to
                  > east
                  > > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs, and these SSTs gyre around
                  > and
                  > > > > > create La Nina or La Nada, not El Nino. OTOH, with
                  relatively
                  > > > > cooler
                  > > > > > waters in 1997, as flaring began to occur and the air
                  cleared
                  > > of
                  > > > > SOx,
                  > > > > > the colder oceans inducted less AGAINST cirrus in the
                  > Southern
                  > > > > Oceans
                  > > > > > and this resulted in warm SSTs, which gyred around to give
                  us
                  > > the
                  > > > > > largest El Nino in at least 500 years.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > The latest satellite data for the lower troposphere:
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Global trend per decade = +0.064°C, (Northern Hemisphere =
                  > > +0.136°
                  > > > > C,
                  > > > > > Southern Hemisphere = - 0.008°C.)
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Global June 2002 = + 0.2°C, (Northern Hemisphere = +0.217°
                  C,
                  > > > > Southern
                  > > > > > Hemisphere = +0.183°C.)
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > The asymetry between hemisphere is DIRECTLY related to what
                  > > > warming
                  > > > > > oceans mean to EMFs and cirrus--in that the Southern
                  Ocean's
                  > > > added
                  > > > > > input of a current that moves so strongly from west to east
                  > > > around
                  > > > > > Antarctica. A warmer inducter of the oceans inducts better,
                  > and
                  > > > in
                  > > > > > this case, warmer for the northern hemisphere's oceans
                  means
                  > on
                  > > > > > balance there is more induction for cirrus due to current
                  > > > > direction .
                  > > > > > . .
                • fredwx
                  I am not sure what you mean here. As far as I remember, tropical storms have less
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jul 29, 2002
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                    <<"LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical systems are
                    electrical.">>

                    I am not sure what you mean here. As far as I remember, tropical
                    storms have less electrical energy (fewer lightning strikes)than
                    would be expected. I understand the reason has to do with the low
                    level air temps being high and that this does not allow a large
                    enough zone of below freezing temps in the upper clouds to produce
                    the electical charge separation. The result is heavier rainfall but
                    less lightning discharges.

                    Fred





                    --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                    > > <<"is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the currents involved
                    > are
                    > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the context of the
                    earth's
                    > > EMF.">>
                    > >
                    > > Current = Voltage/Impedence which implies that impedance is = or
                    > > similar to resistance?
                    >
                    > Yes it is. It INCLUDES resistance. Capacitance. Inductance.
                    Hence,
                    > SSTs is part of its measure.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > >
                    > > I am not sure what you mean by "NOT just the earth's EMF but
                    > currents
                    > > in the context of earth's EMF's???
                    > >
                    >
                    > As you know, I have put up this link to an abstract about
                    measurable
                    > induction by ocean currents:
                    >
                    > http://www.gfdl.gov/~gth/netscape/1992/dbs9201.html
                    >
                    > BUT, this is merely what ocean currents are like in the context of
                    > the earth's EMF and ignores the "noise" of other EMFs. What I am
                    > saying is that when a strike occurs this itself has an EMF in that
                    > locality and for that short period, with itself is ORGANIZED in the
                    > context of the earth's EMF. Hence, direction of current for these
                    > outliners or noise is going to be more significant because we are
                    > dealing with larger EMFs. Just by itself, the earth's EMF is
                    fairly
                    > small, so the induction off of it is likewise small. But in the
                    > context of upper atmospheric EMFs then the direction of ocean
                    > currents start to matter for their inductive properties depending
                    on
                    > their direction. THEN, this induction sums to be significant the
                    > inductance subpart of impedence. Hence, when a Doran wave goes
                    > through the pulse of ions is met with a varying EMF condition!
                    >
                    > In this context here is from TWC where a poster was commenting on
                    why
                    > in the N. Atlantic TS development won't go toward the equator and
                    my
                    > response:
                    >
                    > ". . . then it's the ITCZ position that is limiting development.
                    NOT
                    > Coriolois. Coriolois is exactly equal at the same latitudes all
                    over
                    > the world, 365 days a year. If it was Coriolois limiting
                    development
                    > in the CV region in the North Atlantic, it wouldn't "Change" during
                    > the year."
                    >
                    > "What makes the North Atlantic unusual is the dependence of
                    formation
                    > of storms on the African Easterly Jet (AEJ); it simply never gets
                    > that far south to spit out a perturbation that far south."
                    >
                    > My response:
                    >
                    > YES coriolis is important, but not for the reasons so far stated.
                    >
                    > LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical systems are electrical.
                    >
                    > Doran waves are critical to this EMF dynamic, and that means dry
                    > strips in the warm, tropical waters. This is where the counter
                    blows.
                    > Or dulldrums at worst. This makes for good fair weather voltages
                    > positive 250 volts to ground. Induction, IOW, offers nothing more
                    to
                    > impedance.
                    >
                    > If you have very warm waters and induction from west to east these
                    > waters will really be good proton catchers. That leaves electrons
                    in
                    > the ionosphere for the ITCZ. Or Doran waves.
                    >
                    > Further, coriolis will help define the inner EMF dynamic of the TS
                    > itself.
                    >
                    > Finally, landfalling brings about EMF questions of EMF potentials
                    > between land and ocean and monsoons are their own EMF dynamics,
                    which
                    > can overcome the gyres/counter EMFs dynamics.
                    >
                    > Understand we are talking about HUGE IR values under cirrus. No
                    EMF,
                    > no cirrus, no warm core lows.
                    >
                    > +++++
                    >
                    > I would additionally add that the jet stream is going to cause EMF
                    > instability as well as air pressure instability, and that EMF
                    > instability is more why storms occur along the jets, as dry
                    > lines/patches/strips meeting areas of conductivity means that youll
                    > have areas where cirrus are enhanced toward the ionosphere in a
                    VERY
                    > strong manner and there won't be lack of negitive charges in the
                    > ionosphere as there is so much positive to ground voltages all
                    around
                    > the place of instability. This means that you will have IR values
                    > under the cirrus that are very high and nearby air that doesn't
                    > retain any heat and this spells for strong exchanges of energy.
                    >
                    > This dynamic, from an EMF standpoint, differs from the tropical
                    > storm, which has the negitive charges above the warm core low, with
                    > positive charges above the cirrus, so positive that the upper
                    clouds
                    > can't ever reach the potential differences by themselves being more
                    > positive yet, to discharge that difference with sprites and elves,
                    > and hence they to move upwards, enhanced by the positive charges
                    > around the eye. Near the eye it is interesting that strike
                    activity
                    > is rare. That is because the upper clouds and ionosphere is so
                    > positively charged that it is difficult to take more electrons
                    away,
                    > even from the lower clouds toward a positively charged ocean
                    surface.
                    >
                    > The ocean itself tends toward nuetral and basic pH, btw. Land,
                    otoh,
                    > will have a more acidic pH and more protons there for a moving
                    front
                    > to move up to the high clouds from the ground. The insulative
                    > properties of hydrates and the pH of the oceans, of course, is all
                    > biologically connected, so one could see how waves coming off of W.
                    > Africa that mean biologically active as opposed to not active could
                    > die or not, become tropical or not, depending on those conditions.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > > I first have to say I tend to get lost when it comes to
                    > electricity.
                    > > Are you then saying that given the earth's magnetic field, when
                    the
                    > > ocean currents move perpendicular across it east-west) this will
                    > > create an electrical current. The voltage of this electricial
                    > current
                    > > would then be equal to electrical current times the Impedence
                    > > (resistance)??
                    > >
                    > > Fred
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
                    > > > is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the currents involved
                    > are
                    > > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the context of the
                    > earth's
                    > > > EMF.
                    > > >
                    > > > There is a great example right now in the Pacific as the SOI is
                    > > near
                    > > > zero and pressures are VERY high in the equatorial regions.
                    That
                    > > > means FAIR WEATHER voltages positive to ground and huge Doran
                    > > waves.
                    > > > Well, guess what? There are FOUR tropical features in the
                    > Pacific--
                    > > > two in the E. Pac and two in the W. Pac!
                    > > >
                    > > > I also checked the TOA data and there remains a windless line
                    mid
                    > > > range.
                    > > >
                    > > > Another interesting feature is that with the latest SSTs the La
                    > > Nina
                    > > > 1, 2 continues to grow. Further, in the N. Pacific the waters
                    > > there
                    > > > are warm anomaly in the E. Pac where the canes start and that
                    is
                    > > why
                    > > > those E. Pac storms are forming, then cooling the SSTs that
                    gyre
                    > > > around and you have a future with cold anomalies even in 3, 4
                    due
                    > > to
                    > > > this. YET, in the S. Pacific in the same region, just south,
                    > SSTS
                    > > > are initinally cold gyring in from the Southern Oceans and then
                    > the
                    > > > eddy gets warm anomally in the eddy coming back because cold
                    > means
                    > > > less impeadance coming back for cirrus. This is CLEARLY
                    > reflected
                    > > in
                    > > > the SST anomalies:
                    > > >
                    > > > http://psbsgi1.nesdis.noaa.gov:8080/PSB/EPS/SST/climo.html
                    > > >
                    > > > Another feature to see is the cold anomalies in the Carribean.
                    > > That
                    > > > is because if you think about it, as it is July that is the
                    same
                    > as
                    > > > January for the N. Hemisphere. For the semi tropical regions
                    > that
                    > > > means early spring. Now, if there are DAMS now on the Orinoco
                    as
                    > > the
                    > > > winter snows in the mountains start to melt and the spring
                    rains
                    > > > come, and dams capture those early flows, hydrology is plugged,
                    > > guess
                    > > > what? The Carribean becomes Gaia unhealthy. EMF impeadance is
                    > > > reduced there from the biological conditions. This is true
                    > whether
                    > > > we are talking about hydrate fields near the Orinoco or pH
                    > levels.
                    > > > Now, check out the SST anomalies there! Cold! This is how the
                    > > > season shifts, my friends.
                    > > >
                    > > > We have both a La Nina making mechanism in the E. Pac and a
                    delay
                    > > in
                    > > > hydrology in the Carribean working full on right now, making
                    > > > conditions EMF poor for tropical storms. OTOH, waves coming
                    out
                    > of
                    > > > Africa are starting to feel the BENEFIT of delays of hydrology
                    > from
                    > > > West Africa dams and hydrology changes. (I haven't been able to
                    > > > figure out quite yet what the even MORE recent changes to the
                    > > > Amazon's hydrology means, but if you look in the delta and
                    > > extending
                    > > > out there, there also are cold anamolies matching, again, their
                    > > early
                    > > > spring. Africa had cold anomalies in early March, matching
                    their
                    > > > spring.
                    > > >
                    > > > It is later in the fall (shifting season) when there is a match
                    > of
                    > > > the delayed hydrology of the South American conditions w/ the
                    > West
                    > > > African conditions that we see the season actually taking
                    form.
                    > > This
                    > > > happens to corresponded to the asymetric changes by hemisphere
                    > that
                    > > > are occurring in the Pacific, when Doran waves have really come
                    > > > strong from the E. Pac and you have that resulting warm anomaly
                    > > area
                    > > > by Panama. That is why we have, from an EMF standpoint, had
                    > Mitch,
                    > > > Kevin, Iris, Caracus 1999, Michelle, and will have another
                    Mitch
                    > > like
                    > > > storm LATER in the year.
                    > > >
                    > > > With no SOx event from a volcano which drop phase change
                    > > temperatures
                    > > > of cirrus, we can also be sure that this storm(s) will stall
                    and
                    > > > flood.
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                    > > > > How could warmer waters mean colder SSTs???
                    > > > >
                    > > > > "Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans result in more
                    > > > > induction both for and against cirrus, which alters SSTs, and
                    > in
                    > > > this
                    > > > > case,since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves from west
                    to
                    > > > east
                    > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs"...
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Nevermind that I still see no strong evidence that electrical
                    > > > > currents induced by ocean currents have any measurable effect
                    > on
                    > > > > cirrus clouds. IMHO, any currents are too weak to be
                    > significant.
                    > > > > Fred
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
                    > > > > > http://www.spacedaily.com/news/climate-02y.html
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > "In the Science paper, the El Nino-like conditions
                    correspond
                    > > to
                    > > > > the
                    > > > > > cold period. This is actually rather surprising," Poulsen
                    > > > > said. "Most
                    > > > > > climate scientists would have guessed that the cold periods
                    > > would
                    > > > > > correspond to La Nina-like conditions. So, it is clear that
                    > we
                    > > > > don't
                    > > > > > completely understand the physics that control the tropical
                    > > > climate
                    > > > > > variability between warm and cold periods."
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Comment:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > What is occurring is much like the colder oceans, post Mt.
                    > > > Pinatubo
                    > > > > > and pre flaring cycle peak of 1997 and oceans of now.
                    > > > > > Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans result in more
                    > > > > induction
                    > > > > > both for and against cirrus, which alters SSTs, and in this
                    > > case,
                    > > > > > since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves from west to
                    > east
                    > > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs, and these SSTs gyre around
                    > and
                    > > > > > create La Nina or La Nada, not El Nino. OTOH, with
                    relatively
                    > > > > cooler
                    > > > > > waters in 1997, as flaring began to occur and the air
                    cleared
                    > > of
                    > > > > SOx,
                    > > > > > the colder oceans inducted less AGAINST cirrus in the
                    > Southern
                    > > > > Oceans
                    > > > > > and this resulted in warm SSTs, which gyred around to give
                    us
                    > > the
                    > > > > > largest El Nino in at least 500 years.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > The latest satellite data for the lower troposphere:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Global trend per decade = +0.064°C, (Northern Hemisphere =
                    > > +0.136°
                    > > > > C,
                    > > > > > Southern Hemisphere = - 0.008°C.)
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Global June 2002 = + 0.2°C, (Northern Hemisphere = +0.217°
                    C,
                    > > > > Southern
                    > > > > > Hemisphere = +0.183°C.)
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > The asymetry between hemisphere is DIRECTLY related to what
                    > > > warming
                    > > > > > oceans mean to EMFs and cirrus--in that the Southern
                    Ocean's
                    > > > added
                    > > > > > input of a current that moves so strongly from west to east
                    > > > around
                    > > > > > Antarctica. A warmer inducter of the oceans inducts better,
                    > and
                    > > > in
                    > > > > > this case, warmer for the northern hemisphere's oceans
                    means
                    > on
                    > > > > > balance there is more induction for cirrus due to current
                    > > > > direction .
                    > > > > > . .
                  • pawnfart
                    have been observed, Fred. And yes, it is a wave feature. Capacitance, for instance, works between the ionosphere, which is conductive to direct currents, and
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jul 29, 2002
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                      have been observed, Fred.

                      And yes, it is a wave feature. Capacitance, for instance, works
                      between the ionosphere, which is conductive to direct currents, and
                      the oceans, which is also conductive, BUT the air is insulative--just
                      like a capaciter--which is thus able to communicate waves but not
                      DC. Get it?



                      --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                      > <<"LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical systems are
                      > electrical.">>
                      >
                      > I am not sure what you mean here. As far as I remember, tropical
                      > storms have less electrical energy (fewer lightning strikes)than
                      > would be expected. I understand the reason has to do with the low
                      > level air temps being high and that this does not allow a large
                      > enough zone of below freezing temps in the upper clouds to produce
                      > the electical charge separation. The result is heavier rainfall but
                      > less lightning discharges.
                      >
                      > Fred
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                      > > > <<"is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the currents
                      involved
                      > > are
                      > > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the context of the
                      > earth's
                      > > > EMF.">>
                      > > >
                      > > > Current = Voltage/Impedence which implies that impedance is =
                      or
                      > > > similar to resistance?
                      > >
                      > > Yes it is. It INCLUDES resistance. Capacitance. Inductance.
                      > Hence,
                      > > SSTs is part of its measure.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > > > I am not sure what you mean by "NOT just the earth's EMF but
                      > > currents
                      > > > in the context of earth's EMF's???
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > As you know, I have put up this link to an abstract about
                      > measurable
                      > > induction by ocean currents:
                      > >
                      > > http://www.gfdl.gov/~gth/netscape/1992/dbs9201.html
                      > >
                      > > BUT, this is merely what ocean currents are like in the context
                      of
                      > > the earth's EMF and ignores the "noise" of other EMFs. What I am
                      > > saying is that when a strike occurs this itself has an EMF in
                      that
                      > > locality and for that short period, with itself is ORGANIZED in
                      the
                      > > context of the earth's EMF. Hence, direction of current for
                      these
                      > > outliners or noise is going to be more significant because we are
                      > > dealing with larger EMFs. Just by itself, the earth's EMF is
                      > fairly
                      > > small, so the induction off of it is likewise small. But in the
                      > > context of upper atmospheric EMFs then the direction of ocean
                      > > currents start to matter for their inductive properties depending
                      > on
                      > > their direction. THEN, this induction sums to be significant the
                      > > inductance subpart of impedence. Hence, when a Doran wave goes
                      > > through the pulse of ions is met with a varying EMF condition!
                      > >
                      > > In this context here is from TWC where a poster was commenting on
                      > why
                      > > in the N. Atlantic TS development won't go toward the equator and
                      > my
                      > > response:
                      > >
                      > > ". . . then it's the ITCZ position that is limiting development.
                      > NOT
                      > > Coriolois. Coriolois is exactly equal at the same latitudes all
                      > over
                      > > the world, 365 days a year. If it was Coriolois limiting
                      > development
                      > > in the CV region in the North Atlantic, it wouldn't "Change"
                      during
                      > > the year."
                      > >
                      > > "What makes the North Atlantic unusual is the dependence of
                      > formation
                      > > of storms on the African Easterly Jet (AEJ); it simply never gets
                      > > that far south to spit out a perturbation that far south."
                      > >
                      > > My response:
                      > >
                      > > YES coriolis is important, but not for the reasons so far stated.
                      > >
                      > > LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical systems are
                      electrical.
                      > >
                      > > Doran waves are critical to this EMF dynamic, and that means dry
                      > > strips in the warm, tropical waters. This is where the counter
                      > blows.
                      > > Or dulldrums at worst. This makes for good fair weather voltages
                      > > positive 250 volts to ground. Induction, IOW, offers nothing more
                      > to
                      > > impedance.
                      > >
                      > > If you have very warm waters and induction from west to east
                      these
                      > > waters will really be good proton catchers. That leaves electrons
                      > in
                      > > the ionosphere for the ITCZ. Or Doran waves.
                      > >
                      > > Further, coriolis will help define the inner EMF dynamic of the
                      TS
                      > > itself.
                      > >
                      > > Finally, landfalling brings about EMF questions of EMF potentials
                      > > between land and ocean and monsoons are their own EMF dynamics,
                      > which
                      > > can overcome the gyres/counter EMFs dynamics.
                      > >
                      > > Understand we are talking about HUGE IR values under cirrus. No
                      > EMF,
                      > > no cirrus, no warm core lows.
                      > >
                      > > +++++
                      > >
                      > > I would additionally add that the jet stream is going to cause
                      EMF
                      > > instability as well as air pressure instability, and that EMF
                      > > instability is more why storms occur along the jets, as dry
                      > > lines/patches/strips meeting areas of conductivity means that
                      youll
                      > > have areas where cirrus are enhanced toward the ionosphere in a
                      > VERY
                      > > strong manner and there won't be lack of negitive charges in the
                      > > ionosphere as there is so much positive to ground voltages all
                      > around
                      > > the place of instability. This means that you will have IR values
                      > > under the cirrus that are very high and nearby air that doesn't
                      > > retain any heat and this spells for strong exchanges of energy.
                      > >
                      > > This dynamic, from an EMF standpoint, differs from the tropical
                      > > storm, which has the negitive charges above the warm core low,
                      with
                      > > positive charges above the cirrus, so positive that the upper
                      > clouds
                      > > can't ever reach the potential differences by themselves being
                      more
                      > > positive yet, to discharge that difference with sprites and
                      elves,
                      > > and hence they to move upwards, enhanced by the positive charges
                      > > around the eye. Near the eye it is interesting that strike
                      > activity
                      > > is rare. That is because the upper clouds and ionosphere is so
                      > > positively charged that it is difficult to take more electrons
                      > away,
                      > > even from the lower clouds toward a positively charged ocean
                      > surface.
                      > >
                      > > The ocean itself tends toward nuetral and basic pH, btw. Land,
                      > otoh,
                      > > will have a more acidic pH and more protons there for a moving
                      > front
                      > > to move up to the high clouds from the ground. The insulative
                      > > properties of hydrates and the pH of the oceans, of course, is
                      all
                      > > biologically connected, so one could see how waves coming off of
                      W.
                      > > Africa that mean biologically active as opposed to not active
                      could
                      > > die or not, become tropical or not, depending on those conditions.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > > I first have to say I tend to get lost when it comes to
                      > > electricity.
                      > > > Are you then saying that given the earth's magnetic field, when
                      > the
                      > > > ocean currents move perpendicular across it east-west) this
                      will
                      > > > create an electrical current. The voltage of this electricial
                      > > current
                      > > > would then be equal to electrical current times the Impedence
                      > > > (resistance)??
                      > > >
                      > > > Fred
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
                      > > > > is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the currents
                      involved
                      > > are
                      > > > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the context of the
                      > > earth's
                      > > > > EMF.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > There is a great example right now in the Pacific as the SOI
                      is
                      > > > near
                      > > > > zero and pressures are VERY high in the equatorial regions.
                      > That
                      > > > > means FAIR WEATHER voltages positive to ground and huge Doran
                      > > > waves.
                      > > > > Well, guess what? There are FOUR tropical features in the
                      > > Pacific--
                      > > > > two in the E. Pac and two in the W. Pac!
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I also checked the TOA data and there remains a windless line
                      > mid
                      > > > > range.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Another interesting feature is that with the latest SSTs the
                      La
                      > > > Nina
                      > > > > 1, 2 continues to grow. Further, in the N. Pacific the
                      waters
                      > > > there
                      > > > > are warm anomaly in the E. Pac where the canes start and that
                      > is
                      > > > why
                      > > > > those E. Pac storms are forming, then cooling the SSTs that
                      > gyre
                      > > > > around and you have a future with cold anomalies even in 3, 4
                      > due
                      > > > to
                      > > > > this. YET, in the S. Pacific in the same region, just south,
                      > > SSTS
                      > > > > are initinally cold gyring in from the Southern Oceans and
                      then
                      > > the
                      > > > > eddy gets warm anomally in the eddy coming back because cold
                      > > means
                      > > > > less impeadance coming back for cirrus. This is CLEARLY
                      > > reflected
                      > > > in
                      > > > > the SST anomalies:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > http://psbsgi1.nesdis.noaa.gov:8080/PSB/EPS/SST/climo.html
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Another feature to see is the cold anomalies in the
                      Carribean.
                      > > > That
                      > > > > is because if you think about it, as it is July that is the
                      > same
                      > > as
                      > > > > January for the N. Hemisphere. For the semi tropical regions
                      > > that
                      > > > > means early spring. Now, if there are DAMS now on the
                      Orinoco
                      > as
                      > > > the
                      > > > > winter snows in the mountains start to melt and the spring
                      > rains
                      > > > > come, and dams capture those early flows, hydrology is
                      plugged,
                      > > > guess
                      > > > > what? The Carribean becomes Gaia unhealthy. EMF impeadance
                      is
                      > > > > reduced there from the biological conditions. This is true
                      > > whether
                      > > > > we are talking about hydrate fields near the Orinoco or pH
                      > > levels.
                      > > > > Now, check out the SST anomalies there! Cold! This is how
                      the
                      > > > > season shifts, my friends.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > We have both a La Nina making mechanism in the E. Pac and a
                      > delay
                      > > > in
                      > > > > hydrology in the Carribean working full on right now, making
                      > > > > conditions EMF poor for tropical storms. OTOH, waves coming
                      > out
                      > > of
                      > > > > Africa are starting to feel the BENEFIT of delays of
                      hydrology
                      > > from
                      > > > > West Africa dams and hydrology changes. (I haven't been able
                      to
                      > > > > figure out quite yet what the even MORE recent changes to the
                      > > > > Amazon's hydrology means, but if you look in the delta and
                      > > > extending
                      > > > > out there, there also are cold anamolies matching, again,
                      their
                      > > > early
                      > > > > spring. Africa had cold anomalies in early March, matching
                      > their
                      > > > > spring.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > It is later in the fall (shifting season) when there is a
                      match
                      > > of
                      > > > > the delayed hydrology of the South American conditions w/ the
                      > > West
                      > > > > African conditions that we see the season actually taking
                      > form.
                      > > > This
                      > > > > happens to corresponded to the asymetric changes by
                      hemisphere
                      > > that
                      > > > > are occurring in the Pacific, when Doran waves have really
                      come
                      > > > > strong from the E. Pac and you have that resulting warm
                      anomaly
                      > > > area
                      > > > > by Panama. That is why we have, from an EMF standpoint, had
                      > > Mitch,
                      > > > > Kevin, Iris, Caracus 1999, Michelle, and will have another
                      > Mitch
                      > > > like
                      > > > > storm LATER in the year.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > With no SOx event from a volcano which drop phase change
                      > > > temperatures
                      > > > > of cirrus, we can also be sure that this storm(s) will stall
                      > and
                      > > > > flood.
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                      > > > > > How could warmer waters mean colder SSTs???
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > "Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans result in
                      more
                      > > > > > induction both for and against cirrus, which alters SSTs,
                      and
                      > > in
                      > > > > this
                      > > > > > case,since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves from
                      west
                      > to
                      > > > > east
                      > > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs"...
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Nevermind that I still see no strong evidence that
                      electrical
                      > > > > > currents induced by ocean currents have any measurable
                      effect
                      > > on
                      > > > > > cirrus clouds. IMHO, any currents are too weak to be
                      > > significant.
                      > > > > > Fred
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...>
                      wrote:
                      > > > > > > http://www.spacedaily.com/news/climate-02y.html
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > "In the Science paper, the El Nino-like conditions
                      > correspond
                      > > > to
                      > > > > > the
                      > > > > > > cold period. This is actually rather surprising," Poulsen
                      > > > > > said. "Most
                      > > > > > > climate scientists would have guessed that the cold
                      periods
                      > > > would
                      > > > > > > correspond to La Nina-like conditions. So, it is clear
                      that
                      > > we
                      > > > > > don't
                      > > > > > > completely understand the physics that control the
                      tropical
                      > > > > climate
                      > > > > > > variability between warm and cold periods."
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > Comment:
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > What is occurring is much like the colder oceans, post
                      Mt.
                      > > > > Pinatubo
                      > > > > > > and pre flaring cycle peak of 1997 and oceans of now.
                      > > > > > > Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans result in
                      more
                      > > > > > induction
                      > > > > > > both for and against cirrus, which alters SSTs, and in
                      this
                      > > > case,
                      > > > > > > since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves from west
                      to
                      > > east
                      > > > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs, and these SSTs gyre
                      around
                      > > and
                      > > > > > > create La Nina or La Nada, not El Nino. OTOH, with
                      > relatively
                      > > > > > cooler
                      > > > > > > waters in 1997, as flaring began to occur and the air
                      > cleared
                      > > > of
                      > > > > > SOx,
                      > > > > > > the colder oceans inducted less AGAINST cirrus in the
                      > > Southern
                      > > > > > Oceans
                      > > > > > > and this resulted in warm SSTs, which gyred around to
                      give
                      > us
                      > > > the
                      > > > > > > largest El Nino in at least 500 years.
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > The latest satellite data for the lower troposphere:
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > Global trend per decade = +0.064°C, (Northern Hemisphere
                      =
                      > > > +0.136°
                      > > > > > C,
                      > > > > > > Southern Hemisphere = - 0.008°C.)
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > Global June 2002 = + 0.2°C, (Northern Hemisphere = +0.217°
                      > C,
                      > > > > > Southern
                      > > > > > > Hemisphere = +0.183°C.)
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > The asymetry between hemisphere is DIRECTLY related to
                      what
                      > > > > warming
                      > > > > > > oceans mean to EMFs and cirrus--in that the Southern
                      > Ocean's
                      > > > > added
                      > > > > > > input of a current that moves so strongly from west to
                      east
                      > > > > around
                      > > > > > > Antarctica. A warmer inducter of the oceans inducts
                      better,
                      > > and
                      > > > > in
                      > > > > > > this case, warmer for the northern hemisphere's oceans
                      > means
                      > > on
                      > > > > > > balance there is more induction for cirrus due to current
                      > > > > > direction .
                      > > > > > > . .
                    • fredwx
                      RE: The huge voltages of electrons over the eye: Surprisingly, not much lightning occurs in the inner core (within about 100 km or 60 mi) of the tropical
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jul 29, 2002
                      View Source
                      • 0 Attachment
                        RE: The huge voltages of electrons over the eye:

                        "Surprisingly, not much lightning occurs in the inner core (within
                        about 100 km or 60 mi) of the tropical cyclone center. Only around a
                        dozen or less cloud-to-ground strikes per hour occur around the
                        eyewall of the storm...."

                        http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/tcfaq/G10.html





                        --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
                        > have been observed, Fred.
                        >
                        > And yes, it is a wave feature. Capacitance, for instance, works
                        > between the ionosphere, which is conductive to direct currents,
                        and

                        "> the oceans, which is also conductive, BUT the air is insulative--
                        just
                        > like a capaciter--which is thus able to communicate waves but not
                        > DC. Get it?
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                        > > <<"LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical systems are
                        > > electrical.">>
                        > >
                        > > I am not sure what you mean here. As far as I remember, tropical
                        > > storms have less electrical energy (fewer lightning strikes)than
                        > > would be expected. I understand the reason has to do with the
                        low
                        > > level air temps being high and that this does not allow a large
                        > > enough zone of below freezing temps in the upper clouds to
                        produce
                        > > the electical charge separation. The result is heavier rainfall
                        but
                        > > less lightning discharges.
                        > >
                        > > Fred
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                        > > > > <<"is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the currents
                        > involved
                        > > > are
                        > > > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the context of the
                        > > earth's
                        > > > > EMF.">>
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Current = Voltage/Impedence which implies that impedance is
                        =
                        > or
                        > > > > similar to resistance?
                        > > >
                        > > > Yes it is. It INCLUDES resistance. Capacitance. Inductance.
                        > > Hence,
                        > > > SSTs is part of its measure.
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I am not sure what you mean by "NOT just the earth's EMF but
                        > > > currents
                        > > > > in the context of earth's EMF's???
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > As you know, I have put up this link to an abstract about
                        > > measurable
                        > > > induction by ocean currents:
                        > > >
                        > > > http://www.gfdl.gov/~gth/netscape/1992/dbs9201.html
                        > > >
                        > > > BUT, this is merely what ocean currents are like in the
                        context
                        > of
                        > > > the earth's EMF and ignores the "noise" of other EMFs. What I
                        am
                        > > > saying is that when a strike occurs this itself has an EMF in
                        > that
                        > > > locality and for that short period, with itself is ORGANIZED
                        in
                        > the
                        > > > context of the earth's EMF. Hence, direction of current for
                        > these
                        > > > outliners or noise is going to be more significant because we
                        are
                        > > > dealing with larger EMFs. Just by itself, the earth's EMF is
                        > > fairly
                        > > > small, so the induction off of it is likewise small. But in
                        the
                        > > > context of upper atmospheric EMFs then the direction of ocean
                        > > > currents start to matter for their inductive properties
                        depending
                        > > on
                        > > > their direction. THEN, this induction sums to be significant
                        the
                        > > > inductance subpart of impedence. Hence, when a Doran wave
                        goes
                        > > > through the pulse of ions is met with a varying EMF condition!
                        > > >
                        > > > In this context here is from TWC where a poster was commenting
                        on
                        > > why
                        > > > in the N. Atlantic TS development won't go toward the equator
                        and
                        > > my
                        > > > response:
                        > > >
                        > > > ". . . then it's the ITCZ position that is limiting
                        development.
                        > > NOT
                        > > > Coriolois. Coriolois is exactly equal at the same latitudes
                        all
                        > > over
                        > > > the world, 365 days a year. If it was Coriolois limiting
                        > > development
                        > > > in the CV region in the North Atlantic, it wouldn't "Change"
                        > during
                        > > > the year."
                        > > >
                        > > > "What makes the North Atlantic unusual is the dependence of
                        > > formation
                        > > > of storms on the African Easterly Jet (AEJ); it simply never
                        gets
                        > > > that far south to spit out a perturbation that far south."
                        > > >
                        > > > My response:
                        > > >
                        > > > YES coriolis is important, but not for the reasons so far
                        stated.
                        > > >
                        > > > LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical systems are
                        > electrical.
                        > > >
                        > > > Doran waves are critical to this EMF dynamic, and that means
                        dry
                        > > > strips in the warm, tropical waters. This is where the counter
                        > > blows.
                        > > > Or dulldrums at worst. This makes for good fair weather
                        voltages
                        > > > positive 250 volts to ground. Induction, IOW, offers nothing
                        more
                        > > to
                        > > > impedance.
                        > > >
                        > > > If you have very warm waters and induction from west to east
                        > these
                        > > > waters will really be good proton catchers. That leaves
                        electrons
                        > > in
                        > > > the ionosphere for the ITCZ. Or Doran waves.
                        > > >
                        > > > Further, coriolis will help define the inner EMF dynamic of
                        the
                        > TS
                        > > > itself.
                        > > >
                        > > > Finally, landfalling brings about EMF questions of EMF
                        potentials
                        > > > between land and ocean and monsoons are their own EMF
                        dynamics,
                        > > which
                        > > > can overcome the gyres/counter EMFs dynamics.
                        > > >
                        > > > Understand we are talking about HUGE IR values under cirrus.
                        No
                        > > EMF,
                        > > > no cirrus, no warm core lows.
                        > > >
                        > > > +++++
                        > > >
                        > > > I would additionally add that the jet stream is going to cause
                        > EMF
                        > > > instability as well as air pressure instability, and that EMF
                        > > > instability is more why storms occur along the jets, as dry
                        > > > lines/patches/strips meeting areas of conductivity means that
                        > youll
                        > > > have areas where cirrus are enhanced toward the ionosphere in
                        a
                        > > VERY
                        > > > strong manner and there won't be lack of negitive charges in
                        the
                        > > > ionosphere as there is so much positive to ground voltages all
                        > > around
                        > > > the place of instability. This means that you will have IR
                        values
                        > > > under the cirrus that are very high and nearby air that
                        doesn't
                        > > > retain any heat and this spells for strong exchanges of energy.
                        > > >
                        > > > This dynamic, from an EMF standpoint, differs from the
                        tropical
                        > > > storm, which has the negitive charges above the warm core low,
                        > with
                        > > > positive charges above the cirrus, so positive that the upper
                        > > clouds
                        > > > can't ever reach the potential differences by themselves being
                        > more
                        > > > positive yet, to discharge that difference with sprites and
                        > elves,
                        > > > and hence they to move upwards, enhanced by the positive
                        charges
                        > > > around the eye. Near the eye it is interesting that strike
                        > > activity
                        > > > is rare. That is because the upper clouds and ionosphere is
                        so
                        > > > positively charged that it is difficult to take more electrons
                        > > away,
                        > > > even from the lower clouds toward a positively charged ocean
                        > > surface.
                        > > >
                        > > > The ocean itself tends toward nuetral and basic pH, btw.
                        Land,
                        > > otoh,
                        > > > will have a more acidic pH and more protons there for a moving
                        > > front
                        > > > to move up to the high clouds from the ground. The insulative
                        > > > properties of hydrates and the pH of the oceans, of course, is
                        > all
                        > > > biologically connected, so one could see how waves coming off
                        of
                        > W.
                        > > > Africa that mean biologically active as opposed to not active
                        > could
                        > > > die or not, become tropical or not, depending on those
                        conditions.
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > > I first have to say I tend to get lost when it comes to
                        > > > electricity.
                        > > > > Are you then saying that given the earth's magnetic field,
                        when
                        > > the
                        > > > > ocean currents move perpendicular across it east-west) this
                        > will
                        > > > > create an electrical current. The voltage of this
                        electricial
                        > > > current
                        > > > > would then be equal to electrical current times the
                        Impedence
                        > > > > (resistance)??
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Fred
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
                        > > > > > is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the currents
                        > involved
                        > > > are
                        > > > > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the context of
                        the
                        > > > earth's
                        > > > > > EMF.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > There is a great example right now in the Pacific as the
                        SOI
                        > is
                        > > > > near
                        > > > > > zero and pressures are VERY high in the equatorial
                        regions.
                        > > That
                        > > > > > means FAIR WEATHER voltages positive to ground and huge
                        Doran
                        > > > > waves.
                        > > > > > Well, guess what? There are FOUR tropical features in the
                        > > > Pacific--
                        > > > > > two in the E. Pac and two in the W. Pac!
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > I also checked the TOA data and there remains a windless
                        line
                        > > mid
                        > > > > > range.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Another interesting feature is that with the latest SSTs
                        the
                        > La
                        > > > > Nina
                        > > > > > 1, 2 continues to grow. Further, in the N. Pacific the
                        > waters
                        > > > > there
                        > > > > > are warm anomaly in the E. Pac where the canes start and
                        that
                        > > is
                        > > > > why
                        > > > > > those E. Pac storms are forming, then cooling the SSTs
                        that
                        > > gyre
                        > > > > > around and you have a future with cold anomalies even in
                        3, 4
                        > > due
                        > > > > to
                        > > > > > this. YET, in the S. Pacific in the same region, just
                        south,
                        > > > SSTS
                        > > > > > are initinally cold gyring in from the Southern Oceans and
                        > then
                        > > > the
                        > > > > > eddy gets warm anomally in the eddy coming back because
                        cold
                        > > > means
                        > > > > > less impeadance coming back for cirrus. This is CLEARLY
                        > > > reflected
                        > > > > in
                        > > > > > the SST anomalies:
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > http://psbsgi1.nesdis.noaa.gov:8080/PSB/EPS/SST/climo.html
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Another feature to see is the cold anomalies in the
                        > Carribean.
                        > > > > That
                        > > > > > is because if you think about it, as it is July that is
                        the
                        > > same
                        > > > as
                        > > > > > January for the N. Hemisphere. For the semi tropical
                        regions
                        > > > that
                        > > > > > means early spring. Now, if there are DAMS now on the
                        > Orinoco
                        > > as
                        > > > > the
                        > > > > > winter snows in the mountains start to melt and the spring
                        > > rains
                        > > > > > come, and dams capture those early flows, hydrology is
                        > plugged,
                        > > > > guess
                        > > > > > what? The Carribean becomes Gaia unhealthy. EMF
                        impeadance
                        > is
                        > > > > > reduced there from the biological conditions. This is
                        true
                        > > > whether
                        > > > > > we are talking about hydrate fields near the Orinoco or pH
                        > > > levels.
                        > > > > > Now, check out the SST anomalies there! Cold! This is
                        how
                        > the
                        > > > > > season shifts, my friends.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > We have both a La Nina making mechanism in the E. Pac and
                        a
                        > > delay
                        > > > > in
                        > > > > > hydrology in the Carribean working full on right now,
                        making
                        > > > > > conditions EMF poor for tropical storms. OTOH, waves
                        coming
                        > > out
                        > > > of
                        > > > > > Africa are starting to feel the BENEFIT of delays of
                        > hydrology
                        > > > from
                        > > > > > West Africa dams and hydrology changes. (I haven't been
                        able
                        > to
                        > > > > > figure out quite yet what the even MORE recent changes to
                        the
                        > > > > > Amazon's hydrology means, but if you look in the delta and
                        > > > > extending
                        > > > > > out there, there also are cold anamolies matching, again,
                        > their
                        > > > > early
                        > > > > > spring. Africa had cold anomalies in early March,
                        matching
                        > > their
                        > > > > > spring.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > It is later in the fall (shifting season) when there is a
                        > match
                        > > > of
                        > > > > > the delayed hydrology of the South American conditions w/
                        the
                        > > > West
                        > > > > > African conditions that we see the season actually taking
                        > > form.
                        > > > > This
                        > > > > > happens to corresponded to the asymetric changes by
                        > hemisphere
                        > > > that
                        > > > > > are occurring in the Pacific, when Doran waves have really
                        > come
                        > > > > > strong from the E. Pac and you have that resulting warm
                        > anomaly
                        > > > > area
                        > > > > > by Panama. That is why we have, from an EMF standpoint,
                        had
                        > > > Mitch,
                        > > > > > Kevin, Iris, Caracus 1999, Michelle, and will have another
                        > > Mitch
                        > > > > like
                        > > > > > storm LATER in the year.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > With no SOx event from a volcano which drop phase change
                        > > > > temperatures
                        > > > > > of cirrus, we can also be sure that this storm(s) will
                        stall
                        > > and
                        > > > > > flood.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...>
                        wrote:
                        > > > > > > How could warmer waters mean colder SSTs???
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > "Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans result in
                        > more
                        > > > > > > induction both for and against cirrus, which alters
                        SSTs,
                        > and
                        > > > in
                        > > > > > this
                        > > > > > > case,since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves from
                        > west
                        > > to
                        > > > > > east
                        > > > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs"...
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > Nevermind that I still see no strong evidence that
                        > electrical
                        > > > > > > currents induced by ocean currents have any measurable
                        > effect
                        > > > on
                        > > > > > > cirrus clouds. IMHO, any currents are too weak to be
                        > > > significant.
                        > > > > > > Fred
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...>
                        > wrote:
                        > > > > > > > http://www.spacedaily.com/news/climate-02y.html
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > "In the Science paper, the El Nino-like conditions
                        > > correspond
                        > > > > to
                        > > > > > > the
                        > > > > > > > cold period. This is actually rather surprising,"
                        Poulsen
                        > > > > > > said. "Most
                        > > > > > > > climate scientists would have guessed that the cold
                        > periods
                        > > > > would
                        > > > > > > > correspond to La Nina-like conditions. So, it is clear
                        > that
                        > > > we
                        > > > > > > don't
                        > > > > > > > completely understand the physics that control the
                        > tropical
                        > > > > > climate
                        > > > > > > > variability between warm and cold periods."
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > Comment:
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > What is occurring is much like the colder oceans, post
                        > Mt.
                        > > > > > Pinatubo
                        > > > > > > > and pre flaring cycle peak of 1997 and oceans of now.
                        > > > > > > > Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans result in
                        > more
                        > > > > > > induction
                        > > > > > > > both for and against cirrus, which alters SSTs, and in
                        > this
                        > > > > case,
                        > > > > > > > since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves from
                        west
                        > to
                        > > > east
                        > > > > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs, and these SSTs gyre
                        > around
                        > > > and
                        > > > > > > > create La Nina or La Nada, not El Nino. OTOH, with
                        > > relatively
                        > > > > > > cooler
                        > > > > > > > waters in 1997, as flaring began to occur and the air
                        > > cleared
                        > > > > of
                        > > > > > > SOx,
                        > > > > > > > the colder oceans inducted less AGAINST cirrus in the
                        > > > Southern
                        > > > > > > Oceans
                        > > > > > > > and this resulted in warm SSTs, which gyred around to
                        > give
                        > > us
                        > > > > the
                        > > > > > > > largest El Nino in at least 500 years.
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > The latest satellite data for the lower troposphere:
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > Global trend per decade = +0.064°C, (Northern
                        Hemisphere
                        > =
                        > > > > +0.136°
                        > > > > > > C,
                        > > > > > > > Southern Hemisphere = - 0.008°C.)
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > Global June 2002 = + 0.2°C, (Northern Hemisphere =
                        +0.217°
                        > > C,
                        > > > > > > Southern
                        > > > > > > > Hemisphere = +0.183°C.)
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > The asymetry between hemisphere is DIRECTLY related to
                        > what
                        > > > > > warming
                        > > > > > > > oceans mean to EMFs and cirrus--in that the Southern
                        > > Ocean's
                        > > > > > added
                        > > > > > > > input of a current that moves so strongly from west to
                        > east
                        > > > > > around
                        > > > > > > > Antarctica. A warmer inducter of the oceans inducts
                        > better,
                        > > > and
                        > > > > > in
                        > > > > > > > this case, warmer for the northern hemisphere's oceans
                        > > means
                        > > > on
                        > > > > > > > balance there is more induction for cirrus due to
                        current
                        > > > > > > direction .
                        > > > > > > > . .
                      • pawnfart
                        I totally agree that this is true--but disagree what I think you may be trying to say. Strikes over a TS would be like a leaking capaciter. Do you know how a
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jul 30, 2002
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                          I totally agree that this is true--but disagree what I think you may
                          be trying to say.

                          Strikes over a TS would be like a leaking capaciter.

                          Do you know how a capaciter works?

                          Put it this way--what do you think the charge of the surface under an
                          eye is if the ionosphere carries a huge negitive charge? What kind
                          of electrons will be favored on the surface? What charge will be
                          repelled and what attracted?


                          --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                          > RE: The huge voltages of electrons over the eye:
                          >
                          > "Surprisingly, not much lightning occurs in the inner core (within
                          > about 100 km or 60 mi) of the tropical cyclone center. Only around
                          a
                          > dozen or less cloud-to-ground strikes per hour occur around the
                          > eyewall of the storm...."
                          >
                          > http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/tcfaq/G10.html
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
                          > > have been observed, Fred.
                          > >
                          > > And yes, it is a wave feature. Capacitance, for instance, works
                          > > between the ionosphere, which is conductive to direct currents,
                          > and
                          >
                          > "> the oceans, which is also conductive, BUT the air is insulative--
                          > just
                          > > like a capaciter--which is thus able to communicate waves but not
                          > > DC. Get it?
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                          > > > <<"LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical systems are
                          > > > electrical.">>
                          > > >
                          > > > I am not sure what you mean here. As far as I remember,
                          tropical
                          > > > storms have less electrical energy (fewer lightning strikes)
                          than
                          > > > would be expected. I understand the reason has to do with the
                          > low
                          > > > level air temps being high and that this does not allow a large
                          > > > enough zone of below freezing temps in the upper clouds to
                          > produce
                          > > > the electical charge separation. The result is heavier rainfall
                          > but
                          > > > less lightning discharges.
                          > > >
                          > > > Fred
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                          > > > > > <<"is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the currents
                          > > involved
                          > > > > are
                          > > > > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the context of the
                          > > > earth's
                          > > > > > EMF.">>
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Current = Voltage/Impedence which implies that impedance is
                          > =
                          > > or
                          > > > > > similar to resistance?
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Yes it is. It INCLUDES resistance. Capacitance. Inductance.
                          > > > Hence,
                          > > > > SSTs is part of its measure.
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > I am not sure what you mean by "NOT just the earth's EMF
                          but
                          > > > > currents
                          > > > > > in the context of earth's EMF's???
                          > > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > As you know, I have put up this link to an abstract about
                          > > > measurable
                          > > > > induction by ocean currents:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > http://www.gfdl.gov/~gth/netscape/1992/dbs9201.html
                          > > > >
                          > > > > BUT, this is merely what ocean currents are like in the
                          > context
                          > > of
                          > > > > the earth's EMF and ignores the "noise" of other EMFs. What
                          I
                          > am
                          > > > > saying is that when a strike occurs this itself has an EMF in
                          > > that
                          > > > > locality and for that short period, with itself is ORGANIZED
                          > in
                          > > the
                          > > > > context of the earth's EMF. Hence, direction of current for
                          > > these
                          > > > > outliners or noise is going to be more significant because we
                          > are
                          > > > > dealing with larger EMFs. Just by itself, the earth's EMF is
                          > > > fairly
                          > > > > small, so the induction off of it is likewise small. But in
                          > the
                          > > > > context of upper atmospheric EMFs then the direction of ocean
                          > > > > currents start to matter for their inductive properties
                          > depending
                          > > > on
                          > > > > their direction. THEN, this induction sums to be significant
                          > the
                          > > > > inductance subpart of impedence. Hence, when a Doran wave
                          > goes
                          > > > > through the pulse of ions is met with a varying EMF condition!
                          > > > >
                          > > > > In this context here is from TWC where a poster was
                          commenting
                          > on
                          > > > why
                          > > > > in the N. Atlantic TS development won't go toward the equator
                          > and
                          > > > my
                          > > > > response:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > ". . . then it's the ITCZ position that is limiting
                          > development.
                          > > > NOT
                          > > > > Coriolois. Coriolois is exactly equal at the same latitudes
                          > all
                          > > > over
                          > > > > the world, 365 days a year. If it was Coriolois limiting
                          > > > development
                          > > > > in the CV region in the North Atlantic, it wouldn't "Change"
                          > > during
                          > > > > the year."
                          > > > >
                          > > > > "What makes the North Atlantic unusual is the dependence of
                          > > > formation
                          > > > > of storms on the African Easterly Jet (AEJ); it simply never
                          > gets
                          > > > > that far south to spit out a perturbation that far south."
                          > > > >
                          > > > > My response:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > YES coriolis is important, but not for the reasons so far
                          > stated.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical systems are
                          > > electrical.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Doran waves are critical to this EMF dynamic, and that means
                          > dry
                          > > > > strips in the warm, tropical waters. This is where the
                          counter
                          > > > blows.
                          > > > > Or dulldrums at worst. This makes for good fair weather
                          > voltages
                          > > > > positive 250 volts to ground. Induction, IOW, offers nothing
                          > more
                          > > > to
                          > > > > impedance.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > If you have very warm waters and induction from west to east
                          > > these
                          > > > > waters will really be good proton catchers. That leaves
                          > electrons
                          > > > in
                          > > > > the ionosphere for the ITCZ. Or Doran waves.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Further, coriolis will help define the inner EMF dynamic of
                          > the
                          > > TS
                          > > > > itself.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Finally, landfalling brings about EMF questions of EMF
                          > potentials
                          > > > > between land and ocean and monsoons are their own EMF
                          > dynamics,
                          > > > which
                          > > > > can overcome the gyres/counter EMFs dynamics.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Understand we are talking about HUGE IR values under cirrus.
                          > No
                          > > > EMF,
                          > > > > no cirrus, no warm core lows.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > +++++
                          > > > >
                          > > > > I would additionally add that the jet stream is going to
                          cause
                          > > EMF
                          > > > > instability as well as air pressure instability, and that EMF
                          > > > > instability is more why storms occur along the jets, as dry
                          > > > > lines/patches/strips meeting areas of conductivity means that
                          > > youll
                          > > > > have areas where cirrus are enhanced toward the ionosphere in
                          > a
                          > > > VERY
                          > > > > strong manner and there won't be lack of negitive charges in
                          > the
                          > > > > ionosphere as there is so much positive to ground voltages
                          all
                          > > > around
                          > > > > the place of instability. This means that you will have IR
                          > values
                          > > > > under the cirrus that are very high and nearby air that
                          > doesn't
                          > > > > retain any heat and this spells for strong exchanges of
                          energy.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > This dynamic, from an EMF standpoint, differs from the
                          > tropical
                          > > > > storm, which has the negitive charges above the warm core
                          low,
                          > > with
                          > > > > positive charges above the cirrus, so positive that the upper
                          > > > clouds
                          > > > > can't ever reach the potential differences by themselves
                          being
                          > > more
                          > > > > positive yet, to discharge that difference with sprites and
                          > > elves,
                          > > > > and hence they to move upwards, enhanced by the positive
                          > charges
                          > > > > around the eye. Near the eye it is interesting that strike
                          > > > activity
                          > > > > is rare. That is because the upper clouds and ionosphere is
                          > so
                          > > > > positively charged that it is difficult to take more
                          electrons
                          > > > away,
                          > > > > even from the lower clouds toward a positively charged ocean
                          > > > surface.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > The ocean itself tends toward nuetral and basic pH, btw.
                          > Land,
                          > > > otoh,
                          > > > > will have a more acidic pH and more protons there for a
                          moving
                          > > > front
                          > > > > to move up to the high clouds from the ground. The
                          insulative
                          > > > > properties of hydrates and the pH of the oceans, of course,
                          is
                          > > all
                          > > > > biologically connected, so one could see how waves coming off
                          > of
                          > > W.
                          > > > > Africa that mean biologically active as opposed to not active
                          > > could
                          > > > > die or not, become tropical or not, depending on those
                          > conditions.
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > > I first have to say I tend to get lost when it comes to
                          > > > > electricity.
                          > > > > > Are you then saying that given the earth's magnetic field,
                          > when
                          > > > the
                          > > > > > ocean currents move perpendicular across it east-west) this
                          > > will
                          > > > > > create an electrical current. The voltage of this
                          > electricial
                          > > > > current
                          > > > > > would then be equal to electrical current times the
                          > Impedence
                          > > > > > (resistance)??
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Fred
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...>
                          wrote:
                          > > > > > > is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the currents
                          > > involved
                          > > > > are
                          > > > > > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the context of
                          > the
                          > > > > earth's
                          > > > > > > EMF.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > There is a great example right now in the Pacific as the
                          > SOI
                          > > is
                          > > > > > near
                          > > > > > > zero and pressures are VERY high in the equatorial
                          > regions.
                          > > > That
                          > > > > > > means FAIR WEATHER voltages positive to ground and huge
                          > Doran
                          > > > > > waves.
                          > > > > > > Well, guess what? There are FOUR tropical features in
                          the
                          > > > > Pacific--
                          > > > > > > two in the E. Pac and two in the W. Pac!
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > I also checked the TOA data and there remains a windless
                          > line
                          > > > mid
                          > > > > > > range.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Another interesting feature is that with the latest SSTs
                          > the
                          > > La
                          > > > > > Nina
                          > > > > > > 1, 2 continues to grow. Further, in the N. Pacific the
                          > > waters
                          > > > > > there
                          > > > > > > are warm anomaly in the E. Pac where the canes start and
                          > that
                          > > > is
                          > > > > > why
                          > > > > > > those E. Pac storms are forming, then cooling the SSTs
                          > that
                          > > > gyre
                          > > > > > > around and you have a future with cold anomalies even in
                          > 3, 4
                          > > > due
                          > > > > > to
                          > > > > > > this. YET, in the S. Pacific in the same region, just
                          > south,
                          > > > > SSTS
                          > > > > > > are initinally cold gyring in from the Southern Oceans
                          and
                          > > then
                          > > > > the
                          > > > > > > eddy gets warm anomally in the eddy coming back because
                          > cold
                          > > > > means
                          > > > > > > less impeadance coming back for cirrus. This is CLEARLY
                          > > > > reflected
                          > > > > > in
                          > > > > > > the SST anomalies:
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > http://psbsgi1.nesdis.noaa.gov:8080/PSB/EPS/SST/climo.html
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Another feature to see is the cold anomalies in the
                          > > Carribean.
                          > > > > > That
                          > > > > > > is because if you think about it, as it is July that is
                          > the
                          > > > same
                          > > > > as
                          > > > > > > January for the N. Hemisphere. For the semi tropical
                          > regions
                          > > > > that
                          > > > > > > means early spring. Now, if there are DAMS now on the
                          > > Orinoco
                          > > > as
                          > > > > > the
                          > > > > > > winter snows in the mountains start to melt and the
                          spring
                          > > > rains
                          > > > > > > come, and dams capture those early flows, hydrology is
                          > > plugged,
                          > > > > > guess
                          > > > > > > what? The Carribean becomes Gaia unhealthy. EMF
                          > impeadance
                          > > is
                          > > > > > > reduced there from the biological conditions. This is
                          > true
                          > > > > whether
                          > > > > > > we are talking about hydrate fields near the Orinoco or
                          pH
                          > > > > levels.
                          > > > > > > Now, check out the SST anomalies there! Cold! This is
                          > how
                          > > the
                          > > > > > > season shifts, my friends.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > We have both a La Nina making mechanism in the E. Pac and
                          > a
                          > > > delay
                          > > > > > in
                          > > > > > > hydrology in the Carribean working full on right now,
                          > making
                          > > > > > > conditions EMF poor for tropical storms. OTOH, waves
                          > coming
                          > > > out
                          > > > > of
                          > > > > > > Africa are starting to feel the BENEFIT of delays of
                          > > hydrology
                          > > > > from
                          > > > > > > West Africa dams and hydrology changes. (I haven't been
                          > able
                          > > to
                          > > > > > > figure out quite yet what the even MORE recent changes to
                          > the
                          > > > > > > Amazon's hydrology means, but if you look in the delta
                          and
                          > > > > > extending
                          > > > > > > out there, there also are cold anamolies matching, again,
                          > > their
                          > > > > > early
                          > > > > > > spring. Africa had cold anomalies in early March,
                          > matching
                          > > > their
                          > > > > > > spring.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > It is later in the fall (shifting season) when there is a
                          > > match
                          > > > > of
                          > > > > > > the delayed hydrology of the South American conditions w/
                          > the
                          > > > > West
                          > > > > > > African conditions that we see the season actually taking
                          > > > form.
                          > > > > > This
                          > > > > > > happens to corresponded to the asymetric changes by
                          > > hemisphere
                          > > > > that
                          > > > > > > are occurring in the Pacific, when Doran waves have
                          really
                          > > come
                          > > > > > > strong from the E. Pac and you have that resulting warm
                          > > anomaly
                          > > > > > area
                          > > > > > > by Panama. That is why we have, from an EMF standpoint,
                          > had
                          > > > > Mitch,
                          > > > > > > Kevin, Iris, Caracus 1999, Michelle, and will have
                          another
                          > > > Mitch
                          > > > > > like
                          > > > > > > storm LATER in the year.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > With no SOx event from a volcano which drop phase change
                          > > > > > temperatures
                          > > > > > > of cirrus, we can also be sure that this storm(s) will
                          > stall
                          > > > and
                          > > > > > > flood.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...>
                          > wrote:
                          > > > > > > > How could warmer waters mean colder SSTs???
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > "Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans result
                          in
                          > > more
                          > > > > > > > induction both for and against cirrus, which alters
                          > SSTs,
                          > > and
                          > > > > in
                          > > > > > > this
                          > > > > > > > case,since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves from
                          > > west
                          > > > to
                          > > > > > > east
                          > > > > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs"...
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > Nevermind that I still see no strong evidence that
                          > > electrical
                          > > > > > > > currents induced by ocean currents have any measurable
                          > > effect
                          > > > > on
                          > > > > > > > cirrus clouds. IMHO, any currents are too weak to be
                          > > > > significant.
                          > > > > > > > Fred
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...>
                          > > wrote:
                          > > > > > > > > http://www.spacedaily.com/news/climate-02y.html
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > "In the Science paper, the El Nino-like conditions
                          > > > correspond
                          > > > > > to
                          > > > > > > > the
                          > > > > > > > > cold period. This is actually rather surprising,"
                          > Poulsen
                          > > > > > > > said. "Most
                          > > > > > > > > climate scientists would have guessed that the cold
                          > > periods
                          > > > > > would
                          > > > > > > > > correspond to La Nina-like conditions. So, it is
                          clear
                          > > that
                          > > > > we
                          > > > > > > > don't
                          > > > > > > > > completely understand the physics that control the
                          > > tropical
                          > > > > > > climate
                          > > > > > > > > variability between warm and cold periods."
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > Comment:
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > What is occurring is much like the colder oceans,
                          post
                          > > Mt.
                          > > > > > > Pinatubo
                          > > > > > > > > and pre flaring cycle peak of 1997 and oceans of now.
                          > > > > > > > > Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans result
                          in
                          > > more
                          > > > > > > > induction
                          > > > > > > > > both for and against cirrus, which alters SSTs, and
                          in
                          > > this
                          > > > > > case,
                          > > > > > > > > since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves from
                          > west
                          > > to
                          > > > > east
                          > > > > > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs, and these SSTs gyre
                          > > around
                          > > > > and
                          > > > > > > > > create La Nina or La Nada, not El Nino. OTOH, with
                          > > > relatively
                          > > > > > > > cooler
                          > > > > > > > > waters in 1997, as flaring began to occur and the air
                          > > > cleared
                          > > > > > of
                          > > > > > > > SOx,
                          > > > > > > > > the colder oceans inducted less AGAINST cirrus in the
                          > > > > Southern
                          > > > > > > > Oceans
                          > > > > > > > > and this resulted in warm SSTs, which gyred around to
                          > > give
                          > > > us
                          > > > > > the
                          > > > > > > > > largest El Nino in at least 500 years.
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > The latest satellite data for the lower troposphere:
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > Global trend per decade = +0.064°C, (Northern
                          > Hemisphere
                          > > =
                          > > > > > +0.136°
                          > > > > > > > C,
                          > > > > > > > > Southern Hemisphere = - 0.008°C.)
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > Global June 2002 = + 0.2°C, (Northern Hemisphere =
                          > +0.217°
                          > > > C,
                          > > > > > > > Southern
                          > > > > > > > > Hemisphere = +0.183°C.)
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > The asymetry between hemisphere is DIRECTLY related
                          to
                          > > what
                          > > > > > > warming
                          > > > > > > > > oceans mean to EMFs and cirrus--in that the Southern
                          > > > Ocean's
                          > > > > > > added
                          > > > > > > > > input of a current that moves so strongly from west
                          to
                          > > east
                          > > > > > > around
                          > > > > > > > > Antarctica. A warmer inducter of the oceans inducts
                          > > better,
                          > > > > and
                          > > > > > > in
                          > > > > > > > > this case, warmer for the northern hemisphere's
                          oceans
                          > > > means
                          > > > > on
                          > > > > > > > > balance there is more induction for cirrus due to
                          > current
                          > > > > > > > direction .
                          > > > > > > > > . .
                        • fredwx
                          Capacitors store electricity and block the flow of Direct Current. I understand it to be two electric conductors separated by a nonconductor of electric
                          Message 12 of 17 , Jul 30, 2002
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                            Capacitors store electricity and block the flow of Direct Current. I
                            understand it to be two electric conductors separated by a
                            nonconductor of electric current.


                            --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
                            > I totally agree that this is true--but disagree what I think you
                            may
                            > be trying to say.
                            >
                            > Strikes over a TS would be like a leaking capaciter.
                            >
                            > Do you know how a capaciter works?
                            >
                            > Put it this way--what do you think the charge of the surface under
                            an
                            > eye is if the ionosphere carries a huge negitive charge? What kind
                            > of electrons will be favored on the surface? What charge will be
                            > repelled and what attracted?
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                            > > RE: The huge voltages of electrons over the eye:
                            > >
                            > > "Surprisingly, not much lightning occurs in the inner core
                            (within
                            > > about 100 km or 60 mi) of the tropical cyclone center. Only
                            around
                            > a
                            > > dozen or less cloud-to-ground strikes per hour occur around the
                            > > eyewall of the storm...."
                            > >
                            > > http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/tcfaq/G10.html
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
                            > > > have been observed, Fred.
                            > > >
                            > > > And yes, it is a wave feature. Capacitance, for instance,
                            works
                            > > > between the ionosphere, which is conductive to direct currents,
                            > > and
                            > >
                            > > "> the oceans, which is also conductive, BUT the air is
                            insulative--
                            > > just
                            > > > like a capaciter--which is thus able to communicate waves but
                            not
                            > > > DC. Get it?
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                            > > > > <<"LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical systems are
                            > > > > electrical.">>
                            > > > >
                            > > > > I am not sure what you mean here. As far as I remember,
                            > tropical
                            > > > > storms have less electrical energy (fewer lightning strikes)
                            > than
                            > > > > would be expected. I understand the reason has to do with the
                            > > low
                            > > > > level air temps being high and that this does not allow a
                            large
                            > > > > enough zone of below freezing temps in the upper clouds to
                            > > produce
                            > > > > the electical charge separation. The result is heavier
                            rainfall
                            > > but
                            > > > > less lightning discharges.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Fred
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...>
                            wrote:
                            > > > > > > <<"is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the currents
                            > > > involved
                            > > > > > are
                            > > > > > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the context of
                            the
                            > > > > earth's
                            > > > > > > EMF.">>
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > Current = Voltage/Impedence which implies that impedance
                            is
                            > > =
                            > > > or
                            > > > > > > similar to resistance?
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Yes it is. It INCLUDES resistance. Capacitance.
                            Inductance.
                            > > > > Hence,
                            > > > > > SSTs is part of its measure.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > I am not sure what you mean by "NOT just the earth's EMF
                            > but
                            > > > > > currents
                            > > > > > > in the context of earth's EMF's???
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > As you know, I have put up this link to an abstract about
                            > > > > measurable
                            > > > > > induction by ocean currents:
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > http://www.gfdl.gov/~gth/netscape/1992/dbs9201.html
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > BUT, this is merely what ocean currents are like in the
                            > > context
                            > > > of
                            > > > > > the earth's EMF and ignores the "noise" of other EMFs.
                            What
                            > I
                            > > am
                            > > > > > saying is that when a strike occurs this itself has an EMF
                            in
                            > > > that
                            > > > > > locality and for that short period, with itself is
                            ORGANIZED
                            > > in
                            > > > the
                            > > > > > context of the earth's EMF. Hence, direction of current
                            for
                            > > > these
                            > > > > > outliners or noise is going to be more significant because
                            we
                            > > are
                            > > > > > dealing with larger EMFs. Just by itself, the earth's EMF
                            is
                            > > > > fairly
                            > > > > > small, so the induction off of it is likewise small. But
                            in
                            > > the
                            > > > > > context of upper atmospheric EMFs then the direction of
                            ocean
                            > > > > > currents start to matter for their inductive properties
                            > > depending
                            > > > > on
                            > > > > > their direction. THEN, this induction sums to be
                            significant
                            > > the
                            > > > > > inductance subpart of impedence. Hence, when a Doran wave
                            > > goes
                            > > > > > through the pulse of ions is met with a varying EMF
                            condition!
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > In this context here is from TWC where a poster was
                            > commenting
                            > > on
                            > > > > why
                            > > > > > in the N. Atlantic TS development won't go toward the
                            equator
                            > > and
                            > > > > my
                            > > > > > response:
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > ". . . then it's the ITCZ position that is limiting
                            > > development.
                            > > > > NOT
                            > > > > > Coriolois. Coriolois is exactly equal at the same latitudes
                            > > all
                            > > > > over
                            > > > > > the world, 365 days a year. If it was Coriolois limiting
                            > > > > development
                            > > > > > in the CV region in the North Atlantic, it
                            wouldn't "Change"
                            > > > during
                            > > > > > the year."
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > "What makes the North Atlantic unusual is the dependence of
                            > > > > formation
                            > > > > > of storms on the African Easterly Jet (AEJ); it simply
                            never
                            > > gets
                            > > > > > that far south to spit out a perturbation that far south."
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > My response:
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > YES coriolis is important, but not for the reasons so far
                            > > stated.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical systems are
                            > > > electrical.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Doran waves are critical to this EMF dynamic, and that
                            means
                            > > dry
                            > > > > > strips in the warm, tropical waters. This is where the
                            > counter
                            > > > > blows.
                            > > > > > Or dulldrums at worst. This makes for good fair weather
                            > > voltages
                            > > > > > positive 250 volts to ground. Induction, IOW, offers
                            nothing
                            > > more
                            > > > > to
                            > > > > > impedance.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > If you have very warm waters and induction from west to
                            east
                            > > > these
                            > > > > > waters will really be good proton catchers. That leaves
                            > > electrons
                            > > > > in
                            > > > > > the ionosphere for the ITCZ. Or Doran waves.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Further, coriolis will help define the inner EMF dynamic of
                            > > the
                            > > > TS
                            > > > > > itself.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Finally, landfalling brings about EMF questions of EMF
                            > > potentials
                            > > > > > between land and ocean and monsoons are their own EMF
                            > > dynamics,
                            > > > > which
                            > > > > > can overcome the gyres/counter EMFs dynamics.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Understand we are talking about HUGE IR values under
                            cirrus.
                            > > No
                            > > > > EMF,
                            > > > > > no cirrus, no warm core lows.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > +++++
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > I would additionally add that the jet stream is going to
                            > cause
                            > > > EMF
                            > > > > > instability as well as air pressure instability, and that
                            EMF
                            > > > > > instability is more why storms occur along the jets, as dry
                            > > > > > lines/patches/strips meeting areas of conductivity means
                            that
                            > > > youll
                            > > > > > have areas where cirrus are enhanced toward the ionosphere
                            in
                            > > a
                            > > > > VERY
                            > > > > > strong manner and there won't be lack of negitive charges
                            in
                            > > the
                            > > > > > ionosphere as there is so much positive to ground voltages
                            > all
                            > > > > around
                            > > > > > the place of instability. This means that you will have IR
                            > > values
                            > > > > > under the cirrus that are very high and nearby air that
                            > > doesn't
                            > > > > > retain any heat and this spells for strong exchanges of
                            > energy.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > This dynamic, from an EMF standpoint, differs from the
                            > > tropical
                            > > > > > storm, which has the negitive charges above the warm core
                            > low,
                            > > > with
                            > > > > > positive charges above the cirrus, so positive that the
                            upper
                            > > > > clouds
                            > > > > > can't ever reach the potential differences by themselves
                            > being
                            > > > more
                            > > > > > positive yet, to discharge that difference with sprites and
                            > > > elves,
                            > > > > > and hence they to move upwards, enhanced by the positive
                            > > charges
                            > > > > > around the eye. Near the eye it is interesting that strike
                            > > > > activity
                            > > > > > is rare. That is because the upper clouds and ionosphere
                            is
                            > > so
                            > > > > > positively charged that it is difficult to take more
                            > electrons
                            > > > > away,
                            > > > > > even from the lower clouds toward a positively charged
                            ocean
                            > > > > surface.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > The ocean itself tends toward nuetral and basic pH, btw.
                            > > Land,
                            > > > > otoh,
                            > > > > > will have a more acidic pH and more protons there for a
                            > moving
                            > > > > front
                            > > > > > to move up to the high clouds from the ground. The
                            > insulative
                            > > > > > properties of hydrates and the pH of the oceans, of course,
                            > is
                            > > > all
                            > > > > > biologically connected, so one could see how waves coming
                            off
                            > > of
                            > > > W.
                            > > > > > Africa that mean biologically active as opposed to not
                            active
                            > > > could
                            > > > > > die or not, become tropical or not, depending on those
                            > > conditions.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > > I first have to say I tend to get lost when it comes to
                            > > > > > electricity.
                            > > > > > > Are you then saying that given the earth's magnetic
                            field,
                            > > when
                            > > > > the
                            > > > > > > ocean currents move perpendicular across it east-west)
                            this
                            > > > will
                            > > > > > > create an electrical current. The voltage of this
                            > > electricial
                            > > > > > current
                            > > > > > > would then be equal to electrical current times the
                            > > Impedence
                            > > > > > > (resistance)??
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > Fred
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...>
                            > wrote:
                            > > > > > > > is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the currents
                            > > > involved
                            > > > > > are
                            > > > > > > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the context of
                            > > the
                            > > > > > earth's
                            > > > > > > > EMF.
                            > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > There is a great example right now in the Pacific as
                            the
                            > > SOI
                            > > > is
                            > > > > > > near
                            > > > > > > > zero and pressures are VERY high in the equatorial
                            > > regions.
                            > > > > That
                            > > > > > > > means FAIR WEATHER voltages positive to ground and huge
                            > > Doran
                            > > > > > > waves.
                            > > > > > > > Well, guess what? There are FOUR tropical features in
                            > the
                            > > > > > Pacific--
                            > > > > > > > two in the E. Pac and two in the W. Pac!
                            > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > I also checked the TOA data and there remains a
                            windless
                            > > line
                            > > > > mid
                            > > > > > > > range.
                            > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > Another interesting feature is that with the latest
                            SSTs
                            > > the
                            > > > La
                            > > > > > > Nina
                            > > > > > > > 1, 2 continues to grow. Further, in the N. Pacific the
                            > > > waters
                            > > > > > > there
                            > > > > > > > are warm anomaly in the E. Pac where the canes start
                            and
                            > > that
                            > > > > is
                            > > > > > > why
                            > > > > > > > those E. Pac storms are forming, then cooling the SSTs
                            > > that
                            > > > > gyre
                            > > > > > > > around and you have a future with cold anomalies even
                            in
                            > > 3, 4
                            > > > > due
                            > > > > > > to
                            > > > > > > > this. YET, in the S. Pacific in the same region, just
                            > > south,
                            > > > > > SSTS
                            > > > > > > > are initinally cold gyring in from the Southern Oceans
                            > and
                            > > > then
                            > > > > > the
                            > > > > > > > eddy gets warm anomally in the eddy coming back because
                            > > cold
                            > > > > > means
                            > > > > > > > less impeadance coming back for cirrus. This is
                            CLEARLY
                            > > > > > reflected
                            > > > > > > in
                            > > > > > > > the SST anomalies:
                            > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > >
                            http://psbsgi1.nesdis.noaa.gov:8080/PSB/EPS/SST/climo.html
                            > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > Another feature to see is the cold anomalies in the
                            > > > Carribean.
                            > > > > > > That
                            > > > > > > > is because if you think about it, as it is July that is
                            > > the
                            > > > > same
                            > > > > > as
                            > > > > > > > January for the N. Hemisphere. For the semi tropical
                            > > regions
                            > > > > > that
                            > > > > > > > means early spring. Now, if there are DAMS now on the
                            > > > Orinoco
                            > > > > as
                            > > > > > > the
                            > > > > > > > winter snows in the mountains start to melt and the
                            > spring
                            > > > > rains
                            > > > > > > > come, and dams capture those early flows, hydrology is
                            > > > plugged,
                            > > > > > > guess
                            > > > > > > > what? The Carribean becomes Gaia unhealthy. EMF
                            > > impeadance
                            > > > is
                            > > > > > > > reduced there from the biological conditions. This is
                            > > true
                            > > > > > whether
                            > > > > > > > we are talking about hydrate fields near the Orinoco or
                            > pH
                            > > > > > levels.
                            > > > > > > > Now, check out the SST anomalies there! Cold! This is
                            > > how
                            > > > the
                            > > > > > > > season shifts, my friends.
                            > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > We have both a La Nina making mechanism in the E. Pac
                            and
                            > > a
                            > > > > delay
                            > > > > > > in
                            > > > > > > > hydrology in the Carribean working full on right now,
                            > > making
                            > > > > > > > conditions EMF poor for tropical storms. OTOH, waves
                            > > coming
                            > > > > out
                            > > > > > of
                            > > > > > > > Africa are starting to feel the BENEFIT of delays of
                            > > > hydrology
                            > > > > > from
                            > > > > > > > West Africa dams and hydrology changes. (I haven't been
                            > > able
                            > > > to
                            > > > > > > > figure out quite yet what the even MORE recent changes
                            to
                            > > the
                            > > > > > > > Amazon's hydrology means, but if you look in the delta
                            > and
                            > > > > > > extending
                            > > > > > > > out there, there also are cold anamolies matching,
                            again,
                            > > > their
                            > > > > > > early
                            > > > > > > > spring. Africa had cold anomalies in early March,
                            > > matching
                            > > > > their
                            > > > > > > > spring.
                            > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > It is later in the fall (shifting season) when there is
                            a
                            > > > match
                            > > > > > of
                            > > > > > > > the delayed hydrology of the South American conditions
                            w/
                            > > the
                            > > > > > West
                            > > > > > > > African conditions that we see the season actually
                            taking
                            > > > > form.
                            > > > > > > This
                            > > > > > > > happens to corresponded to the asymetric changes by
                            > > > hemisphere
                            > > > > > that
                            > > > > > > > are occurring in the Pacific, when Doran waves have
                            > really
                            > > > come
                            > > > > > > > strong from the E. Pac and you have that resulting warm
                            > > > anomaly
                            > > > > > > area
                            > > > > > > > by Panama. That is why we have, from an EMF
                            standpoint,
                            > > had
                            > > > > > Mitch,
                            > > > > > > > Kevin, Iris, Caracus 1999, Michelle, and will have
                            > another
                            > > > > Mitch
                            > > > > > > like
                            > > > > > > > storm LATER in the year.
                            > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > With no SOx event from a volcano which drop phase
                            change
                            > > > > > > temperatures
                            > > > > > > > of cirrus, we can also be sure that this storm(s) will
                            > > stall
                            > > > > and
                            > > > > > > > flood.
                            > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...>
                            > > wrote:
                            > > > > > > > > How could warmer waters mean colder SSTs???
                            > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > > "Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans result
                            > in
                            > > > more
                            > > > > > > > > induction both for and against cirrus, which alters
                            > > SSTs,
                            > > > and
                            > > > > > in
                            > > > > > > > this
                            > > > > > > > > case,since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves
                            from
                            > > > west
                            > > > > to
                            > > > > > > > east
                            > > > > > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs"...
                            > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > > Nevermind that I still see no strong evidence that
                            > > > electrical
                            > > > > > > > > currents induced by ocean currents have any
                            measurable
                            > > > effect
                            > > > > > on
                            > > > > > > > > cirrus clouds. IMHO, any currents are too weak to be
                            > > > > > significant.
                            > > > > > > > > Fred
                            > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart"
                            <mike@u...>
                            > > > wrote:
                            > > > > > > > > > http://www.spacedaily.com/news/climate-02y.html
                            > > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > > > "In the Science paper, the El Nino-like conditions
                            > > > > correspond
                            > > > > > > to
                            > > > > > > > > the
                            > > > > > > > > > cold period. This is actually rather surprising,"
                            > > Poulsen
                            > > > > > > > > said. "Most
                            > > > > > > > > > climate scientists would have guessed that the cold
                            > > > periods
                            > > > > > > would
                            > > > > > > > > > correspond to La Nina-like conditions. So, it is
                            > clear
                            > > > that
                            > > > > > we
                            > > > > > > > > don't
                            > > > > > > > > > completely understand the physics that control the
                            > > > tropical
                            > > > > > > > climate
                            > > > > > > > > > variability between warm and cold periods."
                            > > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > > > Comment:
                            > > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > > > What is occurring is much like the colder oceans,
                            > post
                            > > > Mt.
                            > > > > > > > Pinatubo
                            > > > > > > > > > and pre flaring cycle peak of 1997 and oceans of
                            now.
                            > > > > > > > > > Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans result
                            > in
                            > > > more
                            > > > > > > > > induction
                            > > > > > > > > > both for and against cirrus, which alters SSTs, and
                            > in
                            > > > this
                            > > > > > > case,
                            > > > > > > > > > since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves from
                            > > west
                            > > > to
                            > > > > > east
                            > > > > > > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs, and these SSTs
                            gyre
                            > > > around
                            > > > > > and
                            > > > > > > > > > create La Nina or La Nada, not El Nino. OTOH, with
                            > > > > relatively
                            > > > > > > > > cooler
                            > > > > > > > > > waters in 1997, as flaring began to occur and the
                            air
                            > > > > cleared
                            > > > > > > of
                            > > > > > > > > SOx,
                            > > > > > > > > > the colder oceans inducted less AGAINST cirrus in
                            the
                            > > > > > Southern
                            > > > > > > > > Oceans
                            > > > > > > > > > and this resulted in warm SSTs, which gyred around
                            to
                            > > > give
                            > > > > us
                            > > > > > > the
                            > > > > > > > > > largest El Nino in at least 500 years.
                            > > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > > > The latest satellite data for the lower troposphere:
                            > > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > > > Global trend per decade = +0.064°C, (Northern
                            > > Hemisphere
                            > > > =
                            > > > > > > +0.136°
                            > > > > > > > > C,
                            > > > > > > > > > Southern Hemisphere = - 0.008°C.)
                            > > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > > > Global June 2002 = + 0.2°C, (Northern Hemisphere =
                            > > +0.217°
                            > > > > C,
                            > > > > > > > > Southern
                            > > > > > > > > > Hemisphere = +0.183°C.)
                            > > > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > > > The asymetry between hemisphere is DIRECTLY related
                            > to
                            > > > what
                            > > > > > > > warming
                            > > > > > > > > > oceans mean to EMFs and cirrus--in that the
                            Southern
                            > > > > Ocean's
                            > > > > > > > added
                            > > > > > > > > > input of a current that moves so strongly from west
                            > to
                            > > > east
                            > > > > > > > around
                            > > > > > > > > > Antarctica. A warmer inducter of the oceans inducts
                            > > > better,
                            > > > > > and
                            > > > > > > > in
                            > > > > > > > > > this case, warmer for the northern hemisphere's
                            > oceans
                            > > > > means
                            > > > > > on
                            > > > > > > > > > balance there is more induction for cirrus due to
                            > > current
                            > > > > > > > > direction .
                            > > > > > > > > > . .
                          • pawnfart
                            Okay. If a neg charge accumulates at one end of a capacitor, what happens to the charge on the other end? Say a wave rolls of the coast of Africa and it
                            Message 13 of 17 , Jul 30, 2002
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                              Okay. If a neg charge accumulates at one end of a capacitor, what
                              happens to the charge on the other end?

                              Say a wave rolls of the coast of Africa and it brings negitive
                              charges to the ionosphere along the ITCZ. And quickly that charge
                              spreads along the ITCZ all the way to South America, and in this
                              case, over the past day or so, all the way to the E. Pac.
                              Underneath, the charge will have a tendency to be what? And if so,
                              it makes the charge on the front more what? And so over the
                              equatorial zones where there is fair weather, what charges will the
                              ionosphere there become? Doran waves move by capacitance--hence
                              impedence is the measure of the oceans behavior . . .

                              ++++++++++++++++++++++



                              Below is a great link on dust.

                              I think it really shows how EMFs are involved w/ the waves as the dry
                              air has your positive voltage to ground and really charges the dust
                              and makes them suspend whereas the water vaper in the the air takes
                              away that charge and causes the dust to drop by gravity.

                              Where you can really see the EMF/Gaia is as that dust wave goes near
                              our Florida West Keys area and gets broken up but then sort of
                              reforms along the Texas coast . . .

                              The final set of frames is interesting, too, from an EMF stand point.
                              What I want everyone to notice is how when that wave comes off the
                              African coast it electrifies the entire Atlantic and connects w/ the
                              Pacific in a straight line. No waves, IOW, because the EMF contrast
                              between the dry strip of the counter and equator and the wet area is
                              so grand. But in the process of moving like that, I suspect it can
                              cause instability.

                              The SOI right now is flat zero w/ no TS activity anywhere.

                              Understand it is very early spring for the Southern Hemisphere and no
                              hydrology is going to the ocean biosphere in the Carribean to speak
                              of. Typically, we would start to see some hydrology in September, as
                              someone here reminded us. BUT, with the dams, another story!

                              With all these new sats and this new understanding of EMFs, folks
                              here are going to get a free intellectual ride that doesn't come
                              often in life. Strap up. It's going to be fun. When this becomes more
                              mainstream, you can tell your grand kids you were there when it all
                              started.


                              http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/tropic/real-
                              time/wavetrak/movies/atlsal/atlsalwavejava5.html




                              --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                              > Capacitors store electricity and block the flow of Direct Current.
                              I
                              > understand it to be two electric conductors separated by a
                              > nonconductor of electric current.
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
                              > > I totally agree that this is true--but disagree what I think you
                              > may
                              > > be trying to say.
                              > >
                              > > Strikes over a TS would be like a leaking capaciter.
                              > >
                              > > Do you know how a capaciter works?
                              > >
                              > > Put it this way--what do you think the charge of the surface
                              under
                              > an
                              > > eye is if the ionosphere carries a huge negitive charge? What
                              kind
                              > > of electrons will be favored on the surface? What charge will be
                              > > repelled and what attracted?
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                              > > > RE: The huge voltages of electrons over the eye:
                              > > >
                              > > > "Surprisingly, not much lightning occurs in the inner core
                              > (within
                              > > > about 100 km or 60 mi) of the tropical cyclone center. Only
                              > around
                              > > a
                              > > > dozen or less cloud-to-ground strikes per hour occur around the
                              > > > eyewall of the storm...."
                              > > >
                              > > > http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/tcfaq/G10.html
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
                              > > > > have been observed, Fred.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > And yes, it is a wave feature. Capacitance, for instance,
                              > works
                              > > > > between the ionosphere, which is conductive to direct
                              currents,
                              > > > and
                              > > >
                              > > > "> the oceans, which is also conductive, BUT the air is
                              > insulative--
                              > > > just
                              > > > > like a capaciter--which is thus able to communicate waves but
                              > not
                              > > > > DC. Get it?
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                              > > > > > <<"LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical systems are
                              > > > > > electrical.">>
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > I am not sure what you mean here. As far as I remember,
                              > > tropical
                              > > > > > storms have less electrical energy (fewer lightning strikes)
                              > > than
                              > > > > > would be expected. I understand the reason has to do with
                              the
                              > > > low
                              > > > > > level air temps being high and that this does not allow a
                              > large
                              > > > > > enough zone of below freezing temps in the upper clouds to
                              > > > produce
                              > > > > > the electical charge separation. The result is heavier
                              > rainfall
                              > > > but
                              > > > > > less lightning discharges.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Fred
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...>
                              wrote:
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...>
                              > wrote:
                              > > > > > > > <<"is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the
                              currents
                              > > > > involved
                              > > > > > > are
                              > > > > > > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the context of
                              > the
                              > > > > > earth's
                              > > > > > > > EMF.">>
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > Current = Voltage/Impedence which implies that
                              impedance
                              > is
                              > > > =
                              > > > > or
                              > > > > > > > similar to resistance?
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > Yes it is. It INCLUDES resistance. Capacitance.
                              > Inductance.
                              > > > > > Hence,
                              > > > > > > SSTs is part of its measure.
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > I am not sure what you mean by "NOT just the earth's
                              EMF
                              > > but
                              > > > > > > currents
                              > > > > > > > in the context of earth's EMF's???
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > As you know, I have put up this link to an abstract about
                              > > > > > measurable
                              > > > > > > induction by ocean currents:
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > http://www.gfdl.gov/~gth/netscape/1992/dbs9201.html
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > BUT, this is merely what ocean currents are like in the
                              > > > context
                              > > > > of
                              > > > > > > the earth's EMF and ignores the "noise" of other EMFs.
                              > What
                              > > I
                              > > > am
                              > > > > > > saying is that when a strike occurs this itself has an
                              EMF
                              > in
                              > > > > that
                              > > > > > > locality and for that short period, with itself is
                              > ORGANIZED
                              > > > in
                              > > > > the
                              > > > > > > context of the earth's EMF. Hence, direction of current
                              > for
                              > > > > these
                              > > > > > > outliners or noise is going to be more significant
                              because
                              > we
                              > > > are
                              > > > > > > dealing with larger EMFs. Just by itself, the earth's
                              EMF
                              > is
                              > > > > > fairly
                              > > > > > > small, so the induction off of it is likewise small. But
                              > in
                              > > > the
                              > > > > > > context of upper atmospheric EMFs then the direction of
                              > ocean
                              > > > > > > currents start to matter for their inductive properties
                              > > > depending
                              > > > > > on
                              > > > > > > their direction. THEN, this induction sums to be
                              > significant
                              > > > the
                              > > > > > > inductance subpart of impedence. Hence, when a Doran
                              wave
                              > > > goes
                              > > > > > > through the pulse of ions is met with a varying EMF
                              > condition!
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > In this context here is from TWC where a poster was
                              > > commenting
                              > > > on
                              > > > > > why
                              > > > > > > in the N. Atlantic TS development won't go toward the
                              > equator
                              > > > and
                              > > > > > my
                              > > > > > > response:
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > ". . . then it's the ITCZ position that is limiting
                              > > > development.
                              > > > > > NOT
                              > > > > > > Coriolois. Coriolois is exactly equal at the same
                              latitudes
                              > > > all
                              > > > > > over
                              > > > > > > the world, 365 days a year. If it was Coriolois limiting
                              > > > > > development
                              > > > > > > in the CV region in the North Atlantic, it
                              > wouldn't "Change"
                              > > > > during
                              > > > > > > the year."
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > "What makes the North Atlantic unusual is the dependence
                              of
                              > > > > > formation
                              > > > > > > of storms on the African Easterly Jet (AEJ); it simply
                              > never
                              > > > gets
                              > > > > > > that far south to spit out a perturbation that far south."
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > My response:
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > YES coriolis is important, but not for the reasons so far
                              > > > stated.
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical systems are
                              > > > > electrical.
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > Doran waves are critical to this EMF dynamic, and that
                              > means
                              > > > dry
                              > > > > > > strips in the warm, tropical waters. This is where the
                              > > counter
                              > > > > > blows.
                              > > > > > > Or dulldrums at worst. This makes for good fair weather
                              > > > voltages
                              > > > > > > positive 250 volts to ground. Induction, IOW, offers
                              > nothing
                              > > > more
                              > > > > > to
                              > > > > > > impedance.
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > If you have very warm waters and induction from west to
                              > east
                              > > > > these
                              > > > > > > waters will really be good proton catchers. That leaves
                              > > > electrons
                              > > > > > in
                              > > > > > > the ionosphere for the ITCZ. Or Doran waves.
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > Further, coriolis will help define the inner EMF dynamic
                              of
                              > > > the
                              > > > > TS
                              > > > > > > itself.
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > Finally, landfalling brings about EMF questions of EMF
                              > > > potentials
                              > > > > > > between land and ocean and monsoons are their own EMF
                              > > > dynamics,
                              > > > > > which
                              > > > > > > can overcome the gyres/counter EMFs dynamics.
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > Understand we are talking about HUGE IR values under
                              > cirrus.
                              > > > No
                              > > > > > EMF,
                              > > > > > > no cirrus, no warm core lows.
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > +++++
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > I would additionally add that the jet stream is going to
                              > > cause
                              > > > > EMF
                              > > > > > > instability as well as air pressure instability, and that
                              > EMF
                              > > > > > > instability is more why storms occur along the jets, as
                              dry
                              > > > > > > lines/patches/strips meeting areas of conductivity means
                              > that
                              > > > > youll
                              > > > > > > have areas where cirrus are enhanced toward the
                              ionosphere
                              > in
                              > > > a
                              > > > > > VERY
                              > > > > > > strong manner and there won't be lack of negitive charges
                              > in
                              > > > the
                              > > > > > > ionosphere as there is so much positive to ground
                              voltages
                              > > all
                              > > > > > around
                              > > > > > > the place of instability. This means that you will have
                              IR
                              > > > values
                              > > > > > > under the cirrus that are very high and nearby air that
                              > > > doesn't
                              > > > > > > retain any heat and this spells for strong exchanges of
                              > > energy.
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > This dynamic, from an EMF standpoint, differs from the
                              > > > tropical
                              > > > > > > storm, which has the negitive charges above the warm core
                              > > low,
                              > > > > with
                              > > > > > > positive charges above the cirrus, so positive that the
                              > upper
                              > > > > > clouds
                              > > > > > > can't ever reach the potential differences by themselves
                              > > being
                              > > > > more
                              > > > > > > positive yet, to discharge that difference with sprites
                              and
                              > > > > elves,
                              > > > > > > and hence they to move upwards, enhanced by the positive
                              > > > charges
                              > > > > > > around the eye. Near the eye it is interesting that
                              strike
                              > > > > > activity
                              > > > > > > is rare. That is because the upper clouds and ionosphere
                              > is
                              > > > so
                              > > > > > > positively charged that it is difficult to take more
                              > > electrons
                              > > > > > away,
                              > > > > > > even from the lower clouds toward a positively charged
                              > ocean
                              > > > > > surface.
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > The ocean itself tends toward nuetral and basic pH, btw.
                              > > > Land,
                              > > > > > otoh,
                              > > > > > > will have a more acidic pH and more protons there for a
                              > > moving
                              > > > > > front
                              > > > > > > to move up to the high clouds from the ground. The
                              > > insulative
                              > > > > > > properties of hydrates and the pH of the oceans, of
                              course,
                              > > is
                              > > > > all
                              > > > > > > biologically connected, so one could see how waves coming
                              > off
                              > > > of
                              > > > > W.
                              > > > > > > Africa that mean biologically active as opposed to not
                              > active
                              > > > > could
                              > > > > > > die or not, become tropical or not, depending on those
                              > > > conditions.
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > I first have to say I tend to get lost when it comes to
                              > > > > > > electricity.
                              > > > > > > > Are you then saying that given the earth's magnetic
                              > field,
                              > > > when
                              > > > > > the
                              > > > > > > > ocean currents move perpendicular across it east-west)
                              > this
                              > > > > will
                              > > > > > > > create an electrical current. The voltage of this
                              > > > electricial
                              > > > > > > current
                              > > > > > > > would then be equal to electrical current times the
                              > > > Impedence
                              > > > > > > > (resistance)??
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > Fred
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...>
                              > > wrote:
                              > > > > > > > > is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the
                              currents
                              > > > > involved
                              > > > > > > are
                              > > > > > > > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the context
                              of
                              > > > the
                              > > > > > > earth's
                              > > > > > > > > EMF.
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > There is a great example right now in the Pacific as
                              > the
                              > > > SOI
                              > > > > is
                              > > > > > > > near
                              > > > > > > > > zero and pressures are VERY high in the equatorial
                              > > > regions.
                              > > > > > That
                              > > > > > > > > means FAIR WEATHER voltages positive to ground and
                              huge
                              > > > Doran
                              > > > > > > > waves.
                              > > > > > > > > Well, guess what? There are FOUR tropical features
                              in
                              > > the
                              > > > > > > Pacific--
                              > > > > > > > > two in the E. Pac and two in the W. Pac!
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > I also checked the TOA data and there remains a
                              > windless
                              > > > line
                              > > > > > mid
                              > > > > > > > > range.
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > Another interesting feature is that with the latest
                              > SSTs
                              > > > the
                              > > > > La
                              > > > > > > > Nina
                              > > > > > > > > 1, 2 continues to grow. Further, in the N. Pacific
                              the
                              > > > > waters
                              > > > > > > > there
                              > > > > > > > > are warm anomaly in the E. Pac where the canes start
                              > and
                              > > > that
                              > > > > > is
                              > > > > > > > why
                              > > > > > > > > those E. Pac storms are forming, then cooling the
                              SSTs
                              > > > that
                              > > > > > gyre
                              > > > > > > > > around and you have a future with cold anomalies even
                              > in
                              > > > 3, 4
                              > > > > > due
                              > > > > > > > to
                              > > > > > > > > this. YET, in the S. Pacific in the same region,
                              just
                              > > > south,
                              > > > > > > SSTS
                              > > > > > > > > are initinally cold gyring in from the Southern
                              Oceans
                              > > and
                              > > > > then
                              > > > > > > the
                              > > > > > > > > eddy gets warm anomally in the eddy coming back
                              because
                              > > > cold
                              > > > > > > means
                              > > > > > > > > less impeadance coming back for cirrus. This is
                              > CLEARLY
                              > > > > > > reflected
                              > > > > > > > in
                              > > > > > > > > the SST anomalies:
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > http://psbsgi1.nesdis.noaa.gov:8080/PSB/EPS/SST/climo.html
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > Another feature to see is the cold anomalies in the
                              > > > > Carribean.
                              > > > > > > > That
                              > > > > > > > > is because if you think about it, as it is July that
                              is
                              > > > the
                              > > > > > same
                              > > > > > > as
                              > > > > > > > > January for the N. Hemisphere. For the semi tropical
                              > > > regions
                              > > > > > > that
                              > > > > > > > > means early spring. Now, if there are DAMS now on
                              the
                              > > > > Orinoco
                              > > > > > as
                              > > > > > > > the
                              > > > > > > > > winter snows in the mountains start to melt and the
                              > > spring
                              > > > > > rains
                              > > > > > > > > come, and dams capture those early flows, hydrology
                              is
                              > > > > plugged,
                              > > > > > > > guess
                              > > > > > > > > what? The Carribean becomes Gaia unhealthy. EMF
                              > > > impeadance
                              > > > > is
                              > > > > > > > > reduced there from the biological conditions. This
                              is
                              > > > true
                              > > > > > > whether
                              > > > > > > > > we are talking about hydrate fields near the Orinoco
                              or
                              > > pH
                              > > > > > > levels.
                              > > > > > > > > Now, check out the SST anomalies there! Cold! This
                              is
                              > > > how
                              > > > > the
                              > > > > > > > > season shifts, my friends.
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > We have both a La Nina making mechanism in the E. Pac
                              > and
                              > > > a
                              > > > > > delay
                              > > > > > > > in
                              > > > > > > > > hydrology in the Carribean working full on right now,
                              > > > making
                              > > > > > > > > conditions EMF poor for tropical storms. OTOH, waves
                              > > > coming
                              > > > > > out
                              > > > > > > of
                              > > > > > > > > Africa are starting to feel the BENEFIT of delays of
                              > > > > hydrology
                              > > > > > > from
                              > > > > > > > > West Africa dams and hydrology changes. (I haven't
                              been
                              > > > able
                              > > > > to
                              > > > > > > > > figure out quite yet what the even MORE recent
                              changes
                              > to
                              > > > the
                              > > > > > > > > Amazon's hydrology means, but if you look in the
                              delta
                              > > and
                              > > > > > > > extending
                              > > > > > > > > out there, there also are cold anamolies matching,
                              > again,
                              > > > > their
                              > > > > > > > early
                              > > > > > > > > spring. Africa had cold anomalies in early March,
                              > > > matching
                              > > > > > their
                              > > > > > > > > spring.
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > It is later in the fall (shifting season) when there
                              is
                              > a
                              > > > > match
                              > > > > > > of
                              > > > > > > > > the delayed hydrology of the South American
                              conditions
                              > w/
                              > > > the
                              > > > > > > West
                              > > > > > > > > African conditions that we see the season actually
                              > taking
                              > > > > > form.
                              > > > > > > > This
                              > > > > > > > > happens to corresponded to the asymetric changes by
                              > > > > hemisphere
                              > > > > > > that
                              > > > > > > > > are occurring in the Pacific, when Doran waves have
                              > > really
                              > > > > come
                              > > > > > > > > strong from the E. Pac and you have that resulting
                              warm
                              > > > > anomaly
                              > > > > > > > area
                              > > > > > > > > by Panama. That is why we have, from an EMF
                              > standpoint,
                              > > > had
                              > > > > > > Mitch,
                              > > > > > > > > Kevin, Iris, Caracus 1999, Michelle, and will have
                              > > another
                              > > > > > Mitch
                              > > > > > > > like
                              > > > > > > > > storm LATER in the year.
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > With no SOx event from a volcano which drop phase
                              > change
                              > > > > > > > temperatures
                              > > > > > > > > of cirrus, we can also be sure that this storm(s)
                              will
                              > > > stall
                              > > > > > and
                              > > > > > > > > flood.
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx
                              <no_reply@y...>
                              > > > wrote:
                              > > > > > > > > > How could warmer waters mean colder SSTs???
                              > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > > "Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans
                              result
                              > > in
                              > > > > more
                              > > > > > > > > > induction both for and against cirrus, which alters
                              > > > SSTs,
                              > > > > and
                              > > > > > > in
                              > > > > > > > > this
                              > > > > > > > > > case,since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves
                              > from
                              > > > > west
                              > > > > > to
                              > > > > > > > > east
                              > > > > > > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs"...
                              > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > > Nevermind that I still see no strong evidence that
                              > > > > electrical
                              > > > > > > > > > currents induced by ocean currents have any
                              > measurable
                              > > > > effect
                              > > > > > > on
                              > > > > > > > > > cirrus clouds. IMHO, any currents are too weak to
                              be
                              > > > > > > significant.
                              > > > > > > > > > Fred
                              > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart"
                              > <mike@u...>
                              > > > > wrote:
                              > > > > > > > > > > http://www.spacedaily.com/news/climate-02y.html
                              > > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > > > "In the Science paper, the El Nino-like
                              conditions
                              > > > > > correspond
                              > > > > > > > to
                              > > > > > > > > > the
                              > > > > > > > > > > cold period. This is actually rather surprising,"
                              > > > Poulsen
                              > > > > > > > > > said. "Most
                              > > > > > > > > > > climate scientists would have guessed that the
                              cold
                              > > > > periods
                              > > > > > > > would
                              > > > > > > > > > > correspond to La Nina-like conditions. So, it is
                              > > clear
                              > > > > that
                              > > > > > > we
                              > > > > > > > > > don't
                              > > > > > > > > > > completely understand the physics that control
                              the
                              > > > > tropical
                              > > > > > > > > climate
                              > > > > > > > > > > variability between warm and cold periods."
                              > > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > > > Comment:
                              > > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > > > What is occurring is much like the colder oceans,
                              > > post
                              > > > > Mt.
                              > > > > > > > > Pinatubo
                              > > > > > > > > > > and pre flaring cycle peak of 1997 and oceans of
                              > now.
                              > > > > > > > > > > Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans
                              result
                              > > in
                              > > > > more
                              > > > > > > > > > induction
                              > > > > > > > > > > both for and against cirrus, which alters SSTs,
                              and
                              > > in
                              > > > > this
                              > > > > > > > case,
                              > > > > > > > > > > since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves
                              from
                              > > > west
                              > > > > to
                              > > > > > > east
                              > > > > > > > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs, and these SSTs
                              > gyre
                              > > > > around
                              > > > > > > and
                              > > > > > > > > > > create La Nina or La Nada, not El Nino. OTOH,
                              with
                              > > > > > relatively
                              > > > > > > > > > cooler
                              > > > > > > > > > > waters in 1997, as flaring began to occur and the
                              > air
                              > > > > > cleared
                              > > > > > > > of
                              > > > > > > > > > SOx,
                              > > > > > > > > > > the colder oceans inducted less AGAINST cirrus in
                              > the
                              > > > > > > Southern
                              > > > > > > > > > Oceans
                              > > > > > > > > > > and this resulted in warm SSTs, which gyred
                              around
                              > to
                              > > > > give
                              > > > > > us
                              > > > > > > > the
                              > > > > > > > > > > largest El Nino in at least 500 years.
                              > > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > > > The latest satellite data for the lower
                              troposphere:
                              > > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > > > Global trend per decade = +0.064°C, (Northern
                              > > > Hemisphere
                              > > > > =
                              > > > > > > > +0.136°
                              > > > > > > > > > C,
                              > > > > > > > > > > Southern Hemisphere = - 0.008°C.)
                              > > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > > > Global June 2002 = + 0.2°C, (Northern Hemisphere
                              =
                              > > > +0.217°
                              > > > > > C,
                              > > > > > > > > > Southern
                              > > > > > > > > > > Hemisphere = +0.183°C.)
                              > > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > > > The asymetry between hemisphere is DIRECTLY
                              related
                              > > to
                              > > > > what
                              > > > > > > > > warming
                              > > > > > > > > > > oceans mean to EMFs and cirrus--in that the
                              > Southern
                              > > > > > Ocean's
                              > > > > > > > > added
                              > > > > > > > > > > input of a current that moves so strongly from
                              west
                              > > to
                              > > > > east
                              > > > > > > > > around
                              > > > > > > > > > > Antarctica. A warmer inducter of the oceans
                              inducts
                              > > > > better,
                              > > > > > > and
                              > > > > > > > > in
                              > > > > > > > > > > this case, warmer for the northern hemisphere's
                              > > oceans
                              > > > > > means
                              > > > > > > on
                              > > > > > > > > > > balance there is more induction for cirrus due to
                              > > > current
                              > > > > > > > > > direction .
                              > > > > > > > > > > . .
                            • fredwx
                              I would assume at the other end a positive
                              Message 14 of 17 , Jul 31, 2002
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                                <<"Okay. If a neg charge accumulates at one end of a capacitor, what
                                happens to the charge on the other end?">>

                                I would assume at the other end a positive charge would form.

                                Given your statement <<"Underneath, the charge will have a tendency
                                to be what?">> I would answer it would tend to become positivly
                                charged.


                                <<"And if so, it makes the charge on the front more what?">> You
                                lost me here - what front? Do you mean the ITCZ?



                                --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
                                > Okay. If a neg charge accumulates at one end of a capacitor, what
                                > happens to the charge on the other end?
                                >
                                > Say a wave rolls of the coast of Africa and it brings negitive
                                > charges to the ionosphere along the ITCZ. And quickly that charge
                                > spreads along the ITCZ all the way to South America, and in this
                                > case, over the past day or so, all the way to the E. Pac.
                                > Underneath, the charge will have a tendency to be what? And if so,
                                > it makes the charge on the front more what? And so over the
                                > equatorial zones where there is fair weather, what charges will the
                                > ionosphere there become? Doran waves move by capacitance--hence
                                > impedence is the measure of the oceans behavior . . .
                                >
                                > ++++++++++++++++++++++
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Below is a great link on dust.
                                >
                                > I think it really shows how EMFs are involved w/ the waves as the
                                dry
                                > air has your positive voltage to ground and really charges the dust
                                > and makes them suspend whereas the water vaper in the the air takes
                                > away that charge and causes the dust to drop by gravity.
                                >
                                > Where you can really see the EMF/Gaia is as that dust wave goes
                                near
                                > our Florida West Keys area and gets broken up but then sort of
                                > reforms along the Texas coast . . .
                                >
                                > The final set of frames is interesting, too, from an EMF stand
                                point.
                                > What I want everyone to notice is how when that wave comes off the
                                > African coast it electrifies the entire Atlantic and connects w/
                                the
                                > Pacific in a straight line. No waves, IOW, because the EMF contrast
                                > between the dry strip of the counter and equator and the wet area
                                is
                                > so grand. But in the process of moving like that, I suspect it can
                                > cause instability.
                                >
                                > The SOI right now is flat zero w/ no TS activity anywhere.
                                >
                                > Understand it is very early spring for the Southern Hemisphere and
                                no
                                > hydrology is going to the ocean biosphere in the Carribean to speak
                                > of. Typically, we would start to see some hydrology in September,
                                as
                                > someone here reminded us. BUT, with the dams, another story!
                                >
                                > With all these new sats and this new understanding of EMFs, folks
                                > here are going to get a free intellectual ride that doesn't come
                                > often in life. Strap up. It's going to be fun. When this becomes
                                more
                                > mainstream, you can tell your grand kids you were there when it all
                                > started.
                                >
                                >
                                > http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/tropic/real-
                                > time/wavetrak/movies/atlsal/atlsalwavejava5.html
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                                > > Capacitors store electricity and block the flow of Direct
                                Current.
                                > I
                                > > understand it to be two electric conductors separated by a
                                > > nonconductor of electric current.
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
                                > > > I totally agree that this is true--but disagree what I think
                                you
                                > > may
                                > > > be trying to say.
                                > > >
                                > > > Strikes over a TS would be like a leaking capaciter.
                                > > >
                                > > > Do you know how a capaciter works?
                                > > >
                                > > > Put it this way--what do you think the charge of the surface
                                > under
                                > > an
                                > > > eye is if the ionosphere carries a huge negitive charge? What
                                > kind
                                > > > of electrons will be favored on the surface? What charge will
                                be
                                > > > repelled and what attracted?
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                                > > > > RE: The huge voltages of electrons over the eye:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > "Surprisingly, not much lightning occurs in the inner core
                                > > (within
                                > > > > about 100 km or 60 mi) of the tropical cyclone center. Only
                                > > around
                                > > > a
                                > > > > dozen or less cloud-to-ground strikes per hour occur around
                                the
                                > > > > eyewall of the storm...."
                                > > > >
                                > > > > http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/tcfaq/G10.html
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
                                > > > > > have been observed, Fred.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > And yes, it is a wave feature. Capacitance, for instance,
                                > > works
                                > > > > > between the ionosphere, which is conductive to direct
                                > currents,
                                > > > > and
                                > > > >
                                > > > > "> the oceans, which is also conductive, BUT the air is
                                > > insulative--
                                > > > > just
                                > > > > > like a capaciter--which is thus able to communicate waves
                                but
                                > > not
                                > > > > > DC. Get it?
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...>
                                wrote:
                                > > > > > > <<"LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical systems
                                are
                                > > > > > > electrical.">>
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > I am not sure what you mean here. As far as I remember,
                                > > > tropical
                                > > > > > > storms have less electrical energy (fewer lightning
                                strikes)
                                > > > than
                                > > > > > > would be expected. I understand the reason has to do with
                                > the
                                > > > > low
                                > > > > > > level air temps being high and that this does not allow a
                                > > large
                                > > > > > > enough zone of below freezing temps in the upper clouds
                                to
                                > > > > produce
                                > > > > > > the electical charge separation. The result is heavier
                                > > rainfall
                                > > > > but
                                > > > > > > less lightning discharges.
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > Fred
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...>
                                > wrote:
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...>
                                > > wrote:
                                > > > > > > > > <<"is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the
                                > currents
                                > > > > > involved
                                > > > > > > > are
                                > > > > > > > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the context
                                of
                                > > the
                                > > > > > > earth's
                                > > > > > > > > EMF.">>
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > Current = Voltage/Impedence which implies that
                                > impedance
                                > > is
                                > > > > =
                                > > > > > or
                                > > > > > > > > similar to resistance?
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > Yes it is. It INCLUDES resistance. Capacitance.
                                > > Inductance.
                                > > > > > > Hence,
                                > > > > > > > SSTs is part of its measure.
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > I am not sure what you mean by "NOT just the earth's
                                > EMF
                                > > > but
                                > > > > > > > currents
                                > > > > > > > > in the context of earth's EMF's???
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > As you know, I have put up this link to an abstract
                                about
                                > > > > > > measurable
                                > > > > > > > induction by ocean currents:
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > http://www.gfdl.gov/~gth/netscape/1992/dbs9201.html
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > BUT, this is merely what ocean currents are like in the
                                > > > > context
                                > > > > > of
                                > > > > > > > the earth's EMF and ignores the "noise" of other EMFs.
                                > > What
                                > > > I
                                > > > > am
                                > > > > > > > saying is that when a strike occurs this itself has an
                                > EMF
                                > > in
                                > > > > > that
                                > > > > > > > locality and for that short period, with itself is
                                > > ORGANIZED
                                > > > > in
                                > > > > > the
                                > > > > > > > context of the earth's EMF. Hence, direction of
                                current
                                > > for
                                > > > > > these
                                > > > > > > > outliners or noise is going to be more significant
                                > because
                                > > we
                                > > > > are
                                > > > > > > > dealing with larger EMFs. Just by itself, the earth's
                                > EMF
                                > > is
                                > > > > > > fairly
                                > > > > > > > small, so the induction off of it is likewise small.
                                But
                                > > in
                                > > > > the
                                > > > > > > > context of upper atmospheric EMFs then the direction of
                                > > ocean
                                > > > > > > > currents start to matter for their inductive properties
                                > > > > depending
                                > > > > > > on
                                > > > > > > > their direction. THEN, this induction sums to be
                                > > significant
                                > > > > the
                                > > > > > > > inductance subpart of impedence. Hence, when a Doran
                                > wave
                                > > > > goes
                                > > > > > > > through the pulse of ions is met with a varying EMF
                                > > condition!
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > In this context here is from TWC where a poster was
                                > > > commenting
                                > > > > on
                                > > > > > > why
                                > > > > > > > in the N. Atlantic TS development won't go toward the
                                > > equator
                                > > > > and
                                > > > > > > my
                                > > > > > > > response:
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > ". . . then it's the ITCZ position that is limiting
                                > > > > development.
                                > > > > > > NOT
                                > > > > > > > Coriolois. Coriolois is exactly equal at the same
                                > latitudes
                                > > > > all
                                > > > > > > over
                                > > > > > > > the world, 365 days a year. If it was Coriolois
                                limiting
                                > > > > > > development
                                > > > > > > > in the CV region in the North Atlantic, it
                                > > wouldn't "Change"
                                > > > > > during
                                > > > > > > > the year."
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > "What makes the North Atlantic unusual is the
                                dependence
                                > of
                                > > > > > > formation
                                > > > > > > > of storms on the African Easterly Jet (AEJ); it simply
                                > > never
                                > > > > gets
                                > > > > > > > that far south to spit out a perturbation that far
                                south."
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > My response:
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > YES coriolis is important, but not for the reasons so
                                far
                                > > > > stated.
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical systems are
                                > > > > > electrical.
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > Doran waves are critical to this EMF dynamic, and that
                                > > means
                                > > > > dry
                                > > > > > > > strips in the warm, tropical waters. This is where the
                                > > > counter
                                > > > > > > blows.
                                > > > > > > > Or dulldrums at worst. This makes for good fair weather
                                > > > > voltages
                                > > > > > > > positive 250 volts to ground. Induction, IOW, offers
                                > > nothing
                                > > > > more
                                > > > > > > to
                                > > > > > > > impedance.
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > If you have very warm waters and induction from west to
                                > > east
                                > > > > > these
                                > > > > > > > waters will really be good proton catchers. That leaves
                                > > > > electrons
                                > > > > > > in
                                > > > > > > > the ionosphere for the ITCZ. Or Doran waves.
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > Further, coriolis will help define the inner EMF
                                dynamic
                                > of
                                > > > > the
                                > > > > > TS
                                > > > > > > > itself.
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > Finally, landfalling brings about EMF questions of EMF
                                > > > > potentials
                                > > > > > > > between land and ocean and monsoons are their own EMF
                                > > > > dynamics,
                                > > > > > > which
                                > > > > > > > can overcome the gyres/counter EMFs dynamics.
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > Understand we are talking about HUGE IR values under
                                > > cirrus.
                                > > > > No
                                > > > > > > EMF,
                                > > > > > > > no cirrus, no warm core lows.
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > +++++
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > I would additionally add that the jet stream is going
                                to
                                > > > cause
                                > > > > > EMF
                                > > > > > > > instability as well as air pressure instability, and
                                that
                                > > EMF
                                > > > > > > > instability is more why storms occur along the jets, as
                                > dry
                                > > > > > > > lines/patches/strips meeting areas of conductivity
                                means
                                > > that
                                > > > > > youll
                                > > > > > > > have areas where cirrus are enhanced toward the
                                > ionosphere
                                > > in
                                > > > > a
                                > > > > > > VERY
                                > > > > > > > strong manner and there won't be lack of negitive
                                charges
                                > > in
                                > > > > the
                                > > > > > > > ionosphere as there is so much positive to ground
                                > voltages
                                > > > all
                                > > > > > > around
                                > > > > > > > the place of instability. This means that you will have
                                > IR
                                > > > > values
                                > > > > > > > under the cirrus that are very high and nearby air that
                                > > > > doesn't
                                > > > > > > > retain any heat and this spells for strong exchanges of
                                > > > energy.
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > This dynamic, from an EMF standpoint, differs from the
                                > > > > tropical
                                > > > > > > > storm, which has the negitive charges above the warm
                                core
                                > > > low,
                                > > > > > with
                                > > > > > > > positive charges above the cirrus, so positive that the
                                > > upper
                                > > > > > > clouds
                                > > > > > > > can't ever reach the potential differences by
                                themselves
                                > > > being
                                > > > > > more
                                > > > > > > > positive yet, to discharge that difference with sprites
                                > and
                                > > > > > elves,
                                > > > > > > > and hence they to move upwards, enhanced by the
                                positive
                                > > > > charges
                                > > > > > > > around the eye. Near the eye it is interesting that
                                > strike
                                > > > > > > activity
                                > > > > > > > is rare. That is because the upper clouds and
                                ionosphere
                                > > is
                                > > > > so
                                > > > > > > > positively charged that it is difficult to take more
                                > > > electrons
                                > > > > > > away,
                                > > > > > > > even from the lower clouds toward a positively charged
                                > > ocean
                                > > > > > > surface.
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > The ocean itself tends toward nuetral and basic pH,
                                btw.
                                > > > > Land,
                                > > > > > > otoh,
                                > > > > > > > will have a more acidic pH and more protons there for a
                                > > > moving
                                > > > > > > front
                                > > > > > > > to move up to the high clouds from the ground. The
                                > > > insulative
                                > > > > > > > properties of hydrates and the pH of the oceans, of
                                > course,
                                > > > is
                                > > > > > all
                                > > > > > > > biologically connected, so one could see how waves
                                coming
                                > > off
                                > > > > of
                                > > > > > W.
                                > > > > > > > Africa that mean biologically active as opposed to not
                                > > active
                                > > > > > could
                                > > > > > > > die or not, become tropical or not, depending on those
                                > > > > conditions.
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > I first have to say I tend to get lost when it comes
                                to
                                > > > > > > > electricity.
                                > > > > > > > > Are you then saying that given the earth's magnetic
                                > > field,
                                > > > > when
                                > > > > > > the
                                > > > > > > > > ocean currents move perpendicular across it east-
                                west)
                                > > this
                                > > > > > will
                                > > > > > > > > create an electrical current. The voltage of this
                                > > > > electricial
                                > > > > > > > current
                                > > > > > > > > would then be equal to electrical current times the
                                > > > > Impedence
                                > > > > > > > > (resistance)??
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > Fred
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart"
                                <mike@u...>
                                > > > wrote:
                                > > > > > > > > > is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the
                                > currents
                                > > > > > involved
                                > > > > > > > are
                                > > > > > > > > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the
                                context
                                > of
                                > > > > the
                                > > > > > > > earth's
                                > > > > > > > > > EMF.
                                > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > There is a great example right now in the Pacific
                                as
                                > > the
                                > > > > SOI
                                > > > > > is
                                > > > > > > > > near
                                > > > > > > > > > zero and pressures are VERY high in the equatorial
                                > > > > regions.
                                > > > > > > That
                                > > > > > > > > > means FAIR WEATHER voltages positive to ground and
                                > huge
                                > > > > Doran
                                > > > > > > > > waves.
                                > > > > > > > > > Well, guess what? There are FOUR tropical features
                                > in
                                > > > the
                                > > > > > > > Pacific--
                                > > > > > > > > > two in the E. Pac and two in the W. Pac!
                                > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > I also checked the TOA data and there remains a
                                > > windless
                                > > > > line
                                > > > > > > mid
                                > > > > > > > > > range.
                                > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > Another interesting feature is that with the latest
                                > > SSTs
                                > > > > the
                                > > > > > La
                                > > > > > > > > Nina
                                > > > > > > > > > 1, 2 continues to grow. Further, in the N. Pacific
                                > the
                                > > > > > waters
                                > > > > > > > > there
                                > > > > > > > > > are warm anomaly in the E. Pac where the canes
                                start
                                > > and
                                > > > > that
                                > > > > > > is
                                > > > > > > > > why
                                > > > > > > > > > those E. Pac storms are forming, then cooling the
                                > SSTs
                                > > > > that
                                > > > > > > gyre
                                > > > > > > > > > around and you have a future with cold anomalies
                                even
                                > > in
                                > > > > 3, 4
                                > > > > > > due
                                > > > > > > > > to
                                > > > > > > > > > this. YET, in the S. Pacific in the same region,
                                > just
                                > > > > south,
                                > > > > > > > SSTS
                                > > > > > > > > > are initinally cold gyring in from the Southern
                                > Oceans
                                > > > and
                                > > > > > then
                                > > > > > > > the
                                > > > > > > > > > eddy gets warm anomally in the eddy coming back
                                > because
                                > > > > cold
                                > > > > > > > means
                                > > > > > > > > > less impeadance coming back for cirrus. This is
                                > > CLEARLY
                                > > > > > > > reflected
                                > > > > > > > > in
                                > > > > > > > > > the SST anomalies:
                                > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > >
                                > > http://psbsgi1.nesdis.noaa.gov:8080/PSB/EPS/SST/climo.html
                                > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > Another feature to see is the cold anomalies in the
                                > > > > > Carribean.
                                > > > > > > > > That
                                > > > > > > > > > is because if you think about it, as it is July
                                that
                                > is
                                > > > > the
                                > > > > > > same
                                > > > > > > > as
                                > > > > > > > > > January for the N. Hemisphere. For the semi
                                tropical
                                > > > > regions
                                > > > > > > > that
                                > > > > > > > > > means early spring. Now, if there are DAMS now on
                                > the
                                > > > > > Orinoco
                                > > > > > > as
                                > > > > > > > > the
                                > > > > > > > > > winter snows in the mountains start to melt and the
                                > > > spring
                                > > > > > > rains
                                > > > > > > > > > come, and dams capture those early flows, hydrology
                                > is
                                > > > > > plugged,
                                > > > > > > > > guess
                                > > > > > > > > > what? The Carribean becomes Gaia unhealthy. EMF
                                > > > > impeadance
                                > > > > > is
                                > > > > > > > > > reduced there from the biological conditions. This
                                > is
                                > > > > true
                                > > > > > > > whether
                                > > > > > > > > > we are talking about hydrate fields near the
                                Orinoco
                                > or
                                > > > pH
                                > > > > > > > levels.
                                > > > > > > > > > Now, check out the SST anomalies there! Cold!
                                This
                                > is
                                > > > > how
                                > > > > > the
                                > > > > > > > > > season shifts, my friends.
                                > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > We have both a La Nina making mechanism in the E.
                                Pac
                                > > and
                                > > > > a
                                > > > > > > delay
                                > > > > > > > > in
                                > > > > > > > > > hydrology in the Carribean working full on right
                                now,
                                > > > > making
                                > > > > > > > > > conditions EMF poor for tropical storms. OTOH,
                                waves
                                > > > > coming
                                > > > > > > out
                                > > > > > > > of
                                > > > > > > > > > Africa are starting to feel the BENEFIT of delays
                                of
                                > > > > > hydrology
                                > > > > > > > from
                                > > > > > > > > > West Africa dams and hydrology changes. (I haven't
                                > been
                                > > > > able
                                > > > > > to
                                > > > > > > > > > figure out quite yet what the even MORE recent
                                > changes
                                > > to
                                > > > > the
                                > > > > > > > > > Amazon's hydrology means, but if you look in the
                                > delta
                                > > > and
                                > > > > > > > > extending
                                > > > > > > > > > out there, there also are cold anamolies matching,
                                > > again,
                                > > > > > their
                                > > > > > > > > early
                                > > > > > > > > > spring. Africa had cold anomalies in early March,
                                > > > > matching
                                > > > > > > their
                                > > > > > > > > > spring.
                                > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > It is later in the fall (shifting season) when
                                there
                                > is
                                > > a
                                > > > > > match
                                > > > > > > > of
                                > > > > > > > > > the delayed hydrology of the South American
                                > conditions
                                > > w/
                                > > > > the
                                > > > > > > > West
                                > > > > > > > > > African conditions that we see the season actually
                                > > taking
                                > > > > > > form.
                                > > > > > > > > This
                                > > > > > > > > > happens to corresponded to the asymetric changes by
                                > > > > > hemisphere
                                > > > > > > > that
                                > > > > > > > > > are occurring in the Pacific, when Doran waves have
                                > > > really
                                > > > > > come
                                > > > > > > > > > strong from the E. Pac and you have that resulting
                                > warm
                                > > > > > anomaly
                                > > > > > > > > area
                                > > > > > > > > > by Panama. That is why we have, from an EMF
                                > > standpoint,
                                > > > > had
                                > > > > > > > Mitch,
                                > > > > > > > > > Kevin, Iris, Caracus 1999, Michelle, and will have
                                > > > another
                                > > > > > > Mitch
                                > > > > > > > > like
                                > > > > > > > > > storm LATER in the year.
                                > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > With no SOx event from a volcano which drop phase
                                > > change
                                > > > > > > > > temperatures
                                > > > > > > > > > of cirrus, we can also be sure that this storm(s)
                                > will
                                > > > > stall
                                > > > > > > and
                                > > > > > > > > > flood.
                                > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx
                                > <no_reply@y...>
                                > > > > wrote:
                                > > > > > > > > > > How could warmer waters mean colder SSTs???
                                > > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > > "Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans
                                > result
                                > > > in
                                > > > > > more
                                > > > > > > > > > > induction both for and against cirrus, which
                                alters
                                > > > > SSTs,
                                > > > > > and
                                > > > > > > > in
                                > > > > > > > > > this
                                > > > > > > > > > > case,since the circumpoler around Antarctica
                                moves
                                > > from
                                > > > > > west
                                > > > > > > to
                                > > > > > > > > > east
                                > > > > > > > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs"...
                                > > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > > Nevermind that I still see no strong evidence
                                that
                                > > > > > electrical
                                > > > > > > > > > > currents induced by ocean currents have any
                                > > measurable
                                > > > > > effect
                                > > > > > > > on
                                > > > > > > > > > > cirrus clouds. IMHO, any currents are too weak to
                                > be
                                > > > > > > > significant.
                                > > > > > > > > > > Fred
                                > > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart"
                                > > <mike@u...>
                                > > > > > wrote:
                                > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.spacedaily.com/news/climate-02y.html
                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > > > "In the Science paper, the El Nino-like
                                > conditions
                                > > > > > > correspond
                                > > > > > > > > to
                                > > > > > > > > > > the
                                > > > > > > > > > > > cold period. This is actually rather
                                surprising,"
                                > > > > Poulsen
                                > > > > > > > > > > said. "Most
                                > > > > > > > > > > > climate scientists would have guessed that the
                                > cold
                                > > > > > periods
                                > > > > > > > > would
                                > > > > > > > > > > > correspond to La Nina-like conditions. So, it
                                is
                                > > > clear
                                > > > > > that
                                > > > > > > > we
                                > > > > > > > > > > don't
                                > > > > > > > > > > > completely understand the physics that control
                                > the
                                > > > > > tropical
                                > > > > > > > > > climate
                                > > > > > > > > > > > variability between warm and cold periods."
                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > > > Comment:
                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > > > What is occurring is much like the colder
                                oceans,
                                > > > post
                                > > > > > Mt.
                                > > > > > > > > > Pinatubo
                                > > > > > > > > > > > and pre flaring cycle peak of 1997 and oceans
                                of
                                > > now.
                                > > > > > > > > > > > Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans
                                > result
                                > > > in
                                > > > > > more
                                > > > > > > > > > > induction
                                > > > > > > > > > > > both for and against cirrus, which alters SSTs,
                                > and
                                > > > in
                                > > > > > this
                                > > > > > > > > case,
                                > > > > > > > > > > > since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves
                                > from
                                > > > > west
                                > > > > > to
                                > > > > > > > east
                                > > > > > > > > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs, and these SSTs
                                > > gyre
                                > > > > > around
                                > > > > > > > and
                                > > > > > > > > > > > create La Nina or La Nada, not El Nino. OTOH,
                                > with
                                > > > > > > relatively
                                > > > > > > > > > > cooler
                                > > > > > > > > > > > waters in 1997, as flaring began to occur and
                                the
                                > > air
                                > > > > > > cleared
                                > > > > > > > > of
                                > > > > > > > > > > SOx,
                                > > > > > > > > > > > the colder oceans inducted less AGAINST cirrus
                                in
                                > > the
                                > > > > > > > Southern
                                > > > > > > > > > > Oceans
                                > > > > > > > > > > > and this resulted in warm SSTs, which gyred
                                > around
                                > > to
                                > > > > > give
                                > > > > > > us
                                > > > > > > > > the
                                > > > > > > > > > > > largest El Nino in at least 500 years.
                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > > > The latest satellite data for the lower
                                > troposphere:
                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > > > Global trend per decade = +0.064°C, (Northern
                                > > > > Hemisphere
                                > > > > > =
                                > > > > > > > > +0.136°
                                > > > > > > > > > > C,
                                > > > > > > > > > > > Southern Hemisphere = - 0.008°C.)
                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > > > Global June 2002 = + 0.2°C, (Northern
                                Hemisphere
                                > =
                                > > > > +0.217°
                                > > > > > > C,
                                > > > > > > > > > > Southern
                                > > > > > > > > > > > Hemisphere = +0.183°C.)
                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > > > The asymetry between hemisphere is DIRECTLY
                                > related
                                > > > to
                                > > > > > what
                                > > > > > > > > > warming
                                > > > > > > > > > > > oceans mean to EMFs and cirrus--in that the
                                > > Southern
                                > > > > > > Ocean's
                                > > > > > > > > > added
                                > > > > > > > > > > > input of a current that moves so strongly from
                                > west
                                > > > to
                                > > > > > east
                                > > > > > > > > > around
                                > > > > > > > > > > > Antarctica. A warmer inducter of the oceans
                                > inducts
                                > > > > > better,
                                > > > > > > > and
                                > > > > > > > > > in
                                > > > > > > > > > > > this case, warmer for the northern hemisphere's
                                > > > oceans
                                > > > > > > means
                                > > > > > > > on
                                > > > > > > > > > > > balance there is more induction for cirrus due
                                to
                                > > > > current
                                > > > > > > > > > > direction .
                                > > > > > > > > > > > . .
                              • pawnfart
                                ... The ITCZ--yes. What happens is that relatively speaking underneath where there WAS the convection in Western Africa, the positive charges that attracted
                                Message 15 of 17 , Aug 1, 2002
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                                  > <<"And if so, it makes the charge on the front more what?">> You
                                  > lost me here - what front? Do you mean the ITCZ?

                                  The ITCZ--yes. What happens is that relatively speaking underneath
                                  where there WAS the convection in Western Africa, the positive
                                  charges that attracted the electron concentration, in a capacitive
                                  manner, are no longer there. That means these electrons
                                  concentrations will move (repelled by themselves, attracted to other
                                  positive cloud tops). In this case, they move along the ITCZ to
                                  reach a similar equillibrium as that which occurred over the
                                  convective cloud cover.

                                  I am not the only one interested in this theory. Check out this:

                                  http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/07/31/earth.rays/index.html

                                  Report: Cosmic rays influence climate change
                                  July 31, 2002 Posted: 9:26 AM EDT (1326 GMT)

                                  By Richard Stenger

                                  (CNN) -- The Earth has experienced higher surface but not atmospheric
                                  temperatures in recent decades. Now a climate scientist thinks he
                                  knows why: highly charged particles originating beyond the solar
                                  system.

                                  The inconsistencies in ground and air temperature patterns have led
                                  some scientists to dismiss the idea that global warming is taking
                                  place.

                                  But one New York researcher suggests the discrepancy takes place
                                  because of the effect of interstellar cosmic rays on cloud coverage.
                                  Other climate scientists have proposed a link between cosmic rays and
                                  clouds.

                                  Research professor Fangqun Yu of the State University of New York-
                                  Albany goes further, proposing that low and high altitude clouds
                                  react differently to the rays, contributing to greater thermostat
                                  gaps near the surface and higher in the atmosphere.

                                  The number of cosmic rays that strike Earth depends to some degree on
                                  the sun. Solar winds, which can protect the Earth from the
                                  interstellar rays, vary in intensity as the sun waxes and wanes in
                                  intensity, according to Yu.

                                  "A systematic change in global cloud cover will change the
                                  atmospheric heating profile," he said in a statement this week.

                                  "In other words, the cosmic ray-induced global cloud changes could be
                                  the long-sought mechanism connecting solar and climate variability."

                                  Yu said that observations of global warming this century have
                                  corresponded with lowered cosmic ray intensities.

                                  The hypothesis does not disregard man-made contributions to climate
                                  change. Greenhouse gases introduced by humans could affect the cosmic
                                  ray-cloud interactions, he said.

                                  In any case, Yu proposes that cosmic rays help stoke the formation of
                                  dense clouds in the lower atmosphere while having a little or
                                  negative affect on cloud cover in the upper atmosphere.

                                  The low clouds retain more surface energy, keeping the surrounding
                                  air hot, while thin high clouds reflect more sunlight into space,
                                  keeping the upper atmosphere cooler.

                                  Satellite data offer evidence consistent with the hypothesis, which
                                  Yu presents in the July issue of the Journal of Geophysical Research-
                                  Space Physics.

                                  +++++++

                                  Comments:

                                  What I want you to notice is the author of this research has NO EMF
                                  training directly--he is an atmospheric scientist. Further, and more
                                  importantly, he has NO BIOLOGY in his background. Most of these
                                  scholars are highly specialized on the edge of their kens--and the
                                  cross thinking just isn't there:

                                  http://www.albany.edu/~yfq/resume_txt.html

                                  EDUCATION

                                  1998 Ph.D., Atmospheric Sciences, University of California
                                  at Los Angeles
                                  1996 M.S., Atmospheric Sciences, University of California
                                  at Los Angeles
                                  1994 M.S., Atmospheric Physics, Institute of Atmospheric
                                  Physics, China
                                  1991 B.S., Atmospheric Sciences, Peking University, China

                                  PROFESSIONAL ACTIVITIES, AWARDS, HONORS

                                  Invited to give a review talk on the Effect of Galactic Cosmic
                                  Rays on Aerosol
                                  Nucleation, Workshop on Ion-Aerosol-Cloud Interactions, CERN,
                                  Geneva,
                                  Switzerland, April18-20, 2001.
                                  (http://cloud.web.cern.ch/cloud/iaci_workshop)

                                  Publications:

                                  Yu, F. and R. P. Turco, From molecular clusters to nanoparticles: The
                                  role of ambient ionization in tropospheric aerosol formation, J.
                                  Geophys. Res., 106, 4797-4814, 2001.

                                  ++++++++++

                                  My point is that the experts are starting to see the EMF, as, for
                                  instance B-1 and I have been documenting for over a year now, but
                                  what isn't occurring is the connection between this physical forcing
                                  and the stability of "climate" which can only come from modulation.

                                  Here are some additional links from the P. Sciences side of this:

                                  http://ae.atmos.uah.edu/AE/ams_2001b.html

                                  The SPECIAL workshop is entitled: "Space Weather and the Earth's
                                  Weather and Climate: Links between solar activity, magnetospheric
                                  variability, clouds, thunderstorms, and lightning." The workshop
                                  hosts three distinct thematic groups which are working on :

                                  (1) Global Atmospheric Electric Circuit

                                  (2) Charged Particle Fluxes, Events, and Statistics and

                                  (3) Sprites and Lightning.

                                  During the workshop, distinct introductory review lectures will be
                                  given and an extended poster session will be held for discussion and
                                  planning of future research. For more detailed information on the
                                  SPECIAL goals, registration forms, and recent announcements, check
                                  out

                                  http://www.atmospheric-electricity.org/newsletters/2001fall/research-
                                  activity.html

                                  http://www.sgo.fi/SPECIAL/

                                  http://www.atmospheric-electricity.org/newsletters/2001fall/research-
                                  activity.html







                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
                                  > > Okay. If a neg charge accumulates at one end of a capacitor,
                                  what
                                  > > happens to the charge on the other end?
                                  > >
                                  > > Say a wave rolls of the coast of Africa and it brings negitive
                                  > > charges to the ionosphere along the ITCZ. And quickly that
                                  charge
                                  > > spreads along the ITCZ all the way to South America, and in this
                                  > > case, over the past day or so, all the way to the E. Pac.
                                  > > Underneath, the charge will have a tendency to be what? And if
                                  so,
                                  > > it makes the charge on the front more what? And so over the
                                  > > equatorial zones where there is fair weather, what charges will
                                  the
                                  > > ionosphere there become? Doran waves move by capacitance--hence
                                  > > impedence is the measure of the oceans behavior . . .
                                  > >
                                  > > ++++++++++++++++++++++
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Below is a great link on dust.
                                  > >
                                  > > I think it really shows how EMFs are involved w/ the waves as the
                                  > dry
                                  > > air has your positive voltage to ground and really charges the
                                  dust
                                  > > and makes them suspend whereas the water vaper in the the air
                                  takes
                                  > > away that charge and causes the dust to drop by gravity.
                                  > >
                                  > > Where you can really see the EMF/Gaia is as that dust wave goes
                                  > near
                                  > > our Florida West Keys area and gets broken up but then sort of
                                  > > reforms along the Texas coast . . .
                                  > >
                                  > > The final set of frames is interesting, too, from an EMF stand
                                  > point.
                                  > > What I want everyone to notice is how when that wave comes off
                                  the
                                  > > African coast it electrifies the entire Atlantic and connects w/
                                  > the
                                  > > Pacific in a straight line. No waves, IOW, because the EMF
                                  contrast
                                  > > between the dry strip of the counter and equator and the wet area
                                  > is
                                  > > so grand. But in the process of moving like that, I suspect it
                                  can
                                  > > cause instability.
                                  > >
                                  > > The SOI right now is flat zero w/ no TS activity anywhere.
                                  > >
                                  > > Understand it is very early spring for the Southern Hemisphere
                                  and
                                  > no
                                  > > hydrology is going to the ocean biosphere in the Carribean to
                                  speak
                                  > > of. Typically, we would start to see some hydrology in September,
                                  > as
                                  > > someone here reminded us. BUT, with the dams, another story!
                                  > >
                                  > > With all these new sats and this new understanding of EMFs, folks
                                  > > here are going to get a free intellectual ride that doesn't come
                                  > > often in life. Strap up. It's going to be fun. When this becomes
                                  > more
                                  > > mainstream, you can tell your grand kids you were there when it
                                  all
                                  > > started.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/tropic/real-
                                  > > time/wavetrak/movies/atlsal/atlsalwavejava5.html
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                                  > > > Capacitors store electricity and block the flow of Direct
                                  > Current.
                                  > > I
                                  > > > understand it to be two electric conductors separated by a
                                  > > > nonconductor of electric current.
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
                                  > > > > I totally agree that this is true--but disagree what I think
                                  > you
                                  > > > may
                                  > > > > be trying to say.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Strikes over a TS would be like a leaking capaciter.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Do you know how a capaciter works?
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Put it this way--what do you think the charge of the surface
                                  > > under
                                  > > > an
                                  > > > > eye is if the ionosphere carries a huge negitive charge?
                                  What
                                  > > kind
                                  > > > > of electrons will be favored on the surface? What charge
                                  will
                                  > be
                                  > > > > repelled and what attracted?
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                                  > > > > > RE: The huge voltages of electrons over the eye:
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > "Surprisingly, not much lightning occurs in the inner core
                                  > > > (within
                                  > > > > > about 100 km or 60 mi) of the tropical cyclone center. Only
                                  > > > around
                                  > > > > a
                                  > > > > > dozen or less cloud-to-ground strikes per hour occur around
                                  > the
                                  > > > > > eyewall of the storm...."
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/tcfaq/G10.html
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...>
                                  wrote:
                                  > > > > > > have been observed, Fred.
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > And yes, it is a wave feature. Capacitance, for
                                  instance,
                                  > > > works
                                  > > > > > > between the ionosphere, which is conductive to direct
                                  > > currents,
                                  > > > > > and
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > "> the oceans, which is also conductive, BUT the air is
                                  > > > insulative--
                                  > > > > > just
                                  > > > > > > like a capaciter--which is thus able to communicate waves
                                  > but
                                  > > > not
                                  > > > > > > DC. Get it?
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...>
                                  > wrote:
                                  > > > > > > > <<"LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical systems
                                  > are
                                  > > > > > > > electrical.">>
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > I am not sure what you mean here. As far as I remember,
                                  > > > > tropical
                                  > > > > > > > storms have less electrical energy (fewer lightning
                                  > strikes)
                                  > > > > than
                                  > > > > > > > would be expected. I understand the reason has to do
                                  with
                                  > > the
                                  > > > > > low
                                  > > > > > > > level air temps being high and that this does not allow
                                  a
                                  > > > large
                                  > > > > > > > enough zone of below freezing temps in the upper clouds
                                  > to
                                  > > > > > produce
                                  > > > > > > > the electical charge separation. The result is heavier
                                  > > > rainfall
                                  > > > > > but
                                  > > > > > > > less lightning discharges.
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > Fred
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...>
                                  > > wrote:
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx
                                  <no_reply@y...>
                                  > > > wrote:
                                  > > > > > > > > > <<"is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the
                                  > > currents
                                  > > > > > > involved
                                  > > > > > > > > are
                                  > > > > > > > > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the
                                  context
                                  > of
                                  > > > the
                                  > > > > > > > earth's
                                  > > > > > > > > > EMF.">>
                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > Current = Voltage/Impedence which implies that
                                  > > impedance
                                  > > > is
                                  > > > > > =
                                  > > > > > > or
                                  > > > > > > > > > similar to resistance?
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > Yes it is. It INCLUDES resistance. Capacitance.
                                  > > > Inductance.
                                  > > > > > > > Hence,
                                  > > > > > > > > SSTs is part of its measure.
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > I am not sure what you mean by "NOT just the
                                  earth's
                                  > > EMF
                                  > > > > but
                                  > > > > > > > > currents
                                  > > > > > > > > > in the context of earth's EMF's???
                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > As you know, I have put up this link to an abstract
                                  > about
                                  > > > > > > > measurable
                                  > > > > > > > > induction by ocean currents:
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > http://www.gfdl.gov/~gth/netscape/1992/dbs9201.html
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > BUT, this is merely what ocean currents are like in
                                  the
                                  > > > > > context
                                  > > > > > > of
                                  > > > > > > > > the earth's EMF and ignores the "noise" of other
                                  EMFs.
                                  > > > What
                                  > > > > I
                                  > > > > > am
                                  > > > > > > > > saying is that when a strike occurs this itself has
                                  an
                                  > > EMF
                                  > > > in
                                  > > > > > > that
                                  > > > > > > > > locality and for that short period, with itself is
                                  > > > ORGANIZED
                                  > > > > > in
                                  > > > > > > the
                                  > > > > > > > > context of the earth's EMF. Hence, direction of
                                  > current
                                  > > > for
                                  > > > > > > these
                                  > > > > > > > > outliners or noise is going to be more significant
                                  > > because
                                  > > > we
                                  > > > > > are
                                  > > > > > > > > dealing with larger EMFs. Just by itself, the
                                  earth's
                                  > > EMF
                                  > > > is
                                  > > > > > > > fairly
                                  > > > > > > > > small, so the induction off of it is likewise small.
                                  > But
                                  > > > in
                                  > > > > > the
                                  > > > > > > > > context of upper atmospheric EMFs then the direction
                                  of
                                  > > > ocean
                                  > > > > > > > > currents start to matter for their inductive
                                  properties
                                  > > > > > depending
                                  > > > > > > > on
                                  > > > > > > > > their direction. THEN, this induction sums to be
                                  > > > significant
                                  > > > > > the
                                  > > > > > > > > inductance subpart of impedence. Hence, when a Doran
                                  > > wave
                                  > > > > > goes
                                  > > > > > > > > through the pulse of ions is met with a varying EMF
                                  > > > condition!
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > In this context here is from TWC where a poster was
                                  > > > > commenting
                                  > > > > > on
                                  > > > > > > > why
                                  > > > > > > > > in the N. Atlantic TS development won't go toward the
                                  > > > equator
                                  > > > > > and
                                  > > > > > > > my
                                  > > > > > > > > response:
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > ". . . then it's the ITCZ position that is limiting
                                  > > > > > development.
                                  > > > > > > > NOT
                                  > > > > > > > > Coriolois. Coriolois is exactly equal at the same
                                  > > latitudes
                                  > > > > > all
                                  > > > > > > > over
                                  > > > > > > > > the world, 365 days a year. If it was Coriolois
                                  > limiting
                                  > > > > > > > development
                                  > > > > > > > > in the CV region in the North Atlantic, it
                                  > > > wouldn't "Change"
                                  > > > > > > during
                                  > > > > > > > > the year."
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > "What makes the North Atlantic unusual is the
                                  > dependence
                                  > > of
                                  > > > > > > > formation
                                  > > > > > > > > of storms on the African Easterly Jet (AEJ); it
                                  simply
                                  > > > never
                                  > > > > > gets
                                  > > > > > > > > that far south to spit out a perturbation that far
                                  > south."
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > My response:
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > YES coriolis is important, but not for the reasons so
                                  > far
                                  > > > > > stated.
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical systems
                                  are
                                  > > > > > > electrical.
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > Doran waves are critical to this EMF dynamic, and
                                  that
                                  > > > means
                                  > > > > > dry
                                  > > > > > > > > strips in the warm, tropical waters. This is where
                                  the
                                  > > > > counter
                                  > > > > > > > blows.
                                  > > > > > > > > Or dulldrums at worst. This makes for good fair
                                  weather
                                  > > > > > voltages
                                  > > > > > > > > positive 250 volts to ground. Induction, IOW, offers
                                  > > > nothing
                                  > > > > > more
                                  > > > > > > > to
                                  > > > > > > > > impedance.
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > If you have very warm waters and induction from west
                                  to
                                  > > > east
                                  > > > > > > these
                                  > > > > > > > > waters will really be good proton catchers. That
                                  leaves
                                  > > > > > electrons
                                  > > > > > > > in
                                  > > > > > > > > the ionosphere for the ITCZ. Or Doran waves.
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > Further, coriolis will help define the inner EMF
                                  > dynamic
                                  > > of
                                  > > > > > the
                                  > > > > > > TS
                                  > > > > > > > > itself.
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > Finally, landfalling brings about EMF questions of
                                  EMF
                                  > > > > > potentials
                                  > > > > > > > > between land and ocean and monsoons are their own EMF
                                  > > > > > dynamics,
                                  > > > > > > > which
                                  > > > > > > > > can overcome the gyres/counter EMFs dynamics.
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > Understand we are talking about HUGE IR values under
                                  > > > cirrus.
                                  > > > > > No
                                  > > > > > > > EMF,
                                  > > > > > > > > no cirrus, no warm core lows.
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > +++++
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > I would additionally add that the jet stream is going
                                  > to
                                  > > > > cause
                                  > > > > > > EMF
                                  > > > > > > > > instability as well as air pressure instability, and
                                  > that
                                  > > > EMF
                                  > > > > > > > > instability is more why storms occur along the jets,
                                  as
                                  > > dry
                                  > > > > > > > > lines/patches/strips meeting areas of conductivity
                                  > means
                                  > > > that
                                  > > > > > > youll
                                  > > > > > > > > have areas where cirrus are enhanced toward the
                                  > > ionosphere
                                  > > > in
                                  > > > > > a
                                  > > > > > > > VERY
                                  > > > > > > > > strong manner and there won't be lack of negitive
                                  > charges
                                  > > > in
                                  > > > > > the
                                  > > > > > > > > ionosphere as there is so much positive to ground
                                  > > voltages
                                  > > > > all
                                  > > > > > > > around
                                  > > > > > > > > the place of instability. This means that you will
                                  have
                                  > > IR
                                  > > > > > values
                                  > > > > > > > > under the cirrus that are very high and nearby air
                                  that
                                  > > > > > doesn't
                                  > > > > > > > > retain any heat and this spells for strong exchanges
                                  of
                                  > > > > energy.
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > This dynamic, from an EMF standpoint, differs from
                                  the
                                  > > > > > tropical
                                  > > > > > > > > storm, which has the negitive charges above the warm
                                  > core
                                  > > > > low,
                                  > > > > > > with
                                  > > > > > > > > positive charges above the cirrus, so positive that
                                  the
                                  > > > upper
                                  > > > > > > > clouds
                                  > > > > > > > > can't ever reach the potential differences by
                                  > themselves
                                  > > > > being
                                  > > > > > > more
                                  > > > > > > > > positive yet, to discharge that difference with
                                  sprites
                                  > > and
                                  > > > > > > elves,
                                  > > > > > > > > and hence they to move upwards, enhanced by the
                                  > positive
                                  > > > > > charges
                                  > > > > > > > > around the eye. Near the eye it is interesting that
                                  > > strike
                                  > > > > > > > activity
                                  > > > > > > > > is rare. That is because the upper clouds and
                                  > ionosphere
                                  > > > is
                                  > > > > > so
                                  > > > > > > > > positively charged that it is difficult to take more
                                  > > > > electrons
                                  > > > > > > > away,
                                  > > > > > > > > even from the lower clouds toward a positively
                                  charged
                                  > > > ocean
                                  > > > > > > > surface.
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > The ocean itself tends toward nuetral and basic pH,
                                  > btw.
                                  > > > > > Land,
                                  > > > > > > > otoh,
                                  > > > > > > > > will have a more acidic pH and more protons there for
                                  a
                                  > > > > moving
                                  > > > > > > > front
                                  > > > > > > > > to move up to the high clouds from the ground. The
                                  > > > > insulative
                                  > > > > > > > > properties of hydrates and the pH of the oceans, of
                                  > > course,
                                  > > > > is
                                  > > > > > > all
                                  > > > > > > > > biologically connected, so one could see how waves
                                  > coming
                                  > > > off
                                  > > > > > of
                                  > > > > > > W.
                                  > > > > > > > > Africa that mean biologically active as opposed to
                                  not
                                  > > > active
                                  > > > > > > could
                                  > > > > > > > > die or not, become tropical or not, depending on
                                  those
                                  > > > > > conditions.
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > I first have to say I tend to get lost when it
                                  comes
                                  > to
                                  > > > > > > > > electricity.
                                  > > > > > > > > > Are you then saying that given the earth's magnetic
                                  > > > field,
                                  > > > > > when
                                  > > > > > > > the
                                  > > > > > > > > > ocean currents move perpendicular across it east-
                                  > west)
                                  > > > this
                                  > > > > > > will
                                  > > > > > > > > > create an electrical current. The voltage of this
                                  > > > > > electricial
                                  > > > > > > > > current
                                  > > > > > > > > > would then be equal to electrical current times the
                                  > > > > > Impedence
                                  > > > > > > > > > (resistance)??
                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > Fred
                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart"
                                  > <mike@u...>
                                  > > > > wrote:
                                  > > > > > > > > > > is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the
                                  > > currents
                                  > > > > > > involved
                                  > > > > > > > > are
                                  > > > > > > > > > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the
                                  > context
                                  > > of
                                  > > > > > the
                                  > > > > > > > > earth's
                                  > > > > > > > > > > EMF.
                                  > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > There is a great example right now in the Pacific
                                  > as
                                  > > > the
                                  > > > > > SOI
                                  > > > > > > is
                                  > > > > > > > > > near
                                  > > > > > > > > > > zero and pressures are VERY high in the
                                  equatorial
                                  > > > > > regions.
                                  > > > > > > > That
                                  > > > > > > > > > > means FAIR WEATHER voltages positive to ground
                                  and
                                  > > huge
                                  > > > > > Doran
                                  > > > > > > > > > waves.
                                  > > > > > > > > > > Well, guess what? There are FOUR tropical
                                  features
                                  > > in
                                  > > > > the
                                  > > > > > > > > Pacific--
                                  > > > > > > > > > > two in the E. Pac and two in the W. Pac!
                                  > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > I also checked the TOA data and there remains a
                                  > > > windless
                                  > > > > > line
                                  > > > > > > > mid
                                  > > > > > > > > > > range.
                                  > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > Another interesting feature is that with the
                                  latest
                                  > > > SSTs
                                  > > > > > the
                                  > > > > > > La
                                  > > > > > > > > > Nina
                                  > > > > > > > > > > 1, 2 continues to grow. Further, in the N.
                                  Pacific
                                  > > the
                                  > > > > > > waters
                                  > > > > > > > > > there
                                  > > > > > > > > > > are warm anomaly in the E. Pac where the canes
                                  > start
                                  > > > and
                                  > > > > > that
                                  > > > > > > > is
                                  > > > > > > > > > why
                                  > > > > > > > > > > those E. Pac storms are forming, then cooling the
                                  > > SSTs
                                  > > > > > that
                                  > > > > > > > gyre
                                  > > > > > > > > > > around and you have a future with cold anomalies
                                  > even
                                  > > > in
                                  > > > > > 3, 4
                                  > > > > > > > due
                                  > > > > > > > > > to
                                  > > > > > > > > > > this. YET, in the S. Pacific in the same region,
                                  > > just
                                  > > > > > south,
                                  > > > > > > > > SSTS
                                  > > > > > > > > > > are initinally cold gyring in from the Southern
                                  > > Oceans
                                  > > > > and
                                  > > > > > > then
                                  > > > > > > > > the
                                  > > > > > > > > > > eddy gets warm anomally in the eddy coming back
                                  > > because
                                  > > > > > cold
                                  > > > > > > > > means
                                  > > > > > > > > > > less impeadance coming back for cirrus. This is
                                  > > > CLEARLY
                                  > > > > > > > > reflected
                                  > > > > > > > > > in
                                  > > > > > > > > > > the SST anomalies:
                                  > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > http://psbsgi1.nesdis.noaa.gov:8080/PSB/EPS/SST/climo.html
                                  > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > Another feature to see is the cold anomalies in
                                  the
                                  > > > > > > Carribean.
                                  > > > > > > > > > That
                                  > > > > > > > > > > is because if you think about it, as it is July
                                  > that
                                  > > is
                                  > > > > > the
                                  > > > > > > > same
                                  > > > > > > > > as
                                  > > > > > > > > > > January for the N. Hemisphere. For the semi
                                  > tropical
                                  > > > > > regions
                                  > > > > > > > > that
                                  > > > > > > > > > > means early spring. Now, if there are DAMS now
                                  on
                                  > > the
                                  > > > > > > Orinoco
                                  > > > > > > > as
                                  > > > > > > > > > the
                                  > > > > > > > > > > winter snows in the mountains start to melt and
                                  the
                                  > > > > spring
                                  > > > > > > > rains
                                  > > > > > > > > > > come, and dams capture those early flows,
                                  hydrology
                                  > > is
                                  > > > > > > plugged,
                                  > > > > > > > > > guess
                                  > > > > > > > > > > what? The Carribean becomes Gaia unhealthy. EMF
                                  > > > > > impeadance
                                  > > > > > > is
                                  > > > > > > > > > > reduced there from the biological conditions.
                                  This
                                  > > is
                                  > > > > > true
                                  > > > > > > > > whether
                                  > > > > > > > > > > we are talking about hydrate fields near the
                                  > Orinoco
                                  > > or
                                  > > > > pH
                                  > > > > > > > > levels.
                                  > > > > > > > > > > Now, check out the SST anomalies there! Cold!
                                  > This
                                  > > is
                                  > > > > > how
                                  > > > > > > the
                                  > > > > > > > > > > season shifts, my friends.
                                  > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > We have both a La Nina making mechanism in the E.
                                  > Pac
                                  > > > and
                                  > > > > > a
                                  > > > > > > > delay
                                  > > > > > > > > > in
                                  > > > > > > > > > > hydrology in the Carribean working full on right
                                  > now,
                                  > > > > > making
                                  > > > > > > > > > > conditions EMF poor for tropical storms. OTOH,
                                  > waves
                                  > > > > > coming
                                  > > > > > > > out
                                  > > > > > > > > of
                                  > > > > > > > > > > Africa are starting to feel the BENEFIT of delays
                                  > of
                                  > > > > > > hydrology
                                  > > > > > > > > from
                                  > > > > > > > > > > West Africa dams and hydrology changes. (I
                                  haven't
                                  > > been
                                  > > > > > able
                                  > > > > > > to
                                  > > > > > > > > > > figure out quite yet what the even MORE recent
                                  > > changes
                                  > > > to
                                  > > > > > the
                                  > > > > > > > > > > Amazon's hydrology means, but if you look in the
                                  > > delta
                                  > > > > and
                                  > > > > > > > > > extending
                                  > > > > > > > > > > out there, there also are cold anamolies
                                  matching,
                                  > > > again,
                                  > > > > > > their
                                  > > > > > > > > > early
                                  > > > > > > > > > > spring. Africa had cold anomalies in early
                                  March,
                                  > > > > > matching
                                  > > > > > > > their
                                  > > > > > > > > > > spring.
                                  > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > It is later in the fall (shifting season) when
                                  > there
                                  > > is
                                  > > > a
                                  > > > > > > match
                                  > > > > > > > > of
                                  > > > > > > > > > > the delayed hydrology of the South American
                                  > > conditions
                                  > > > w/
                                  > > > > > the
                                  > > > > > > > > West
                                  > > > > > > > > > > African conditions that we see the season
                                  actually
                                  > > > taking
                                  > > > > > > > form.
                                  > > > > > > > > > This
                                  > > > > > > > > > > happens to corresponded to the asymetric changes
                                  by
                                  > > > > > > hemisphere
                                  > > > > > > > > that
                                  > > > > > > > > > > are occurring in the Pacific, when Doran waves
                                  have
                                  > > > > really
                                  > > > > > > come
                                  > > > > > > > > > > strong from the E. Pac and you have that
                                  resulting
                                  > > warm
                                  > > > > > > anomaly
                                  > > > > > > > > > area
                                  > > > > > > > > > > by Panama. That is why we have, from an EMF
                                  > > > standpoint,
                                  > > > > > had
                                  > > > > > > > > Mitch,
                                  > > > > > > > > > > Kevin, Iris, Caracus 1999, Michelle, and will
                                  have
                                  > > > > another
                                  > > > > > > > Mitch
                                  > > > > > > > > > like
                                  > > > > > > > > > > storm LATER in the year.
                                  > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > With no SOx event from a volcano which drop phase
                                  > > > change
                                  > > > > > > > > > temperatures
                                  > > > > > > > > > > of cirrus, we can also be sure that this storm(s)
                                  > > will
                                  > > > > > stall
                                  > > > > > > > and
                                  > > > > > > > > > > flood.
                                  > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx
                                  > > <no_reply@y...>
                                  > > > > > wrote:
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > How could warmer waters mean colder SSTs???
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > "Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans
                                  > > result
                                  > > > > in
                                  > > > > > > more
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > induction both for and against cirrus, which
                                  > alters
                                  > > > > > SSTs,
                                  > > > > > > and
                                  > > > > > > > > in
                                  > > > > > > > > > > this
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > case,since the circumpoler around Antarctica
                                  > moves
                                  > > > from
                                  > > > > > > west
                                  > > > > > > > to
                                  > > > > > > > > > > east
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs"...
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > Nevermind that I still see no strong evidence
                                  > that
                                  > > > > > > electrical
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > currents induced by ocean currents have any
                                  > > > measurable
                                  > > > > > > effect
                                  > > > > > > > > on
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > cirrus clouds. IMHO, any currents are too weak
                                  to
                                  > > be
                                  > > > > > > > > significant.
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > Fred
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart"
                                  > > > <mike@u...>
                                  > > > > > > wrote:
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.spacedaily.com/news/climate-
                                  02y.html
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > "In the Science paper, the El Nino-like
                                  > > conditions
                                  > > > > > > > correspond
                                  > > > > > > > > > to
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > the
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > cold period. This is actually rather
                                  > surprising,"
                                  > > > > > Poulsen
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > said. "Most
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > climate scientists would have guessed that
                                  the
                                  > > cold
                                  > > > > > > periods
                                  > > > > > > > > > would
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > correspond to La Nina-like conditions. So, it
                                  > is
                                  > > > > clear
                                  > > > > > > that
                                  > > > > > > > > we
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > don't
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > completely understand the physics that
                                  control
                                  > > the
                                  > > > > > > tropical
                                  > > > > > > > > > > climate
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > variability between warm and cold periods."
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > Comment:
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > What is occurring is much like the colder
                                  > oceans,
                                  > > > > post
                                  > > > > > > Mt.
                                  > > > > > > > > > > Pinatubo
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > and pre flaring cycle peak of 1997 and oceans
                                  > of
                                  > > > now.
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > Counterintuitively, in general warmer oceans
                                  > > result
                                  > > > > in
                                  > > > > > > more
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > induction
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > both for and against cirrus, which alters
                                  SSTs,
                                  > > and
                                  > > > > in
                                  > > > > > > this
                                  > > > > > > > > > case,
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > since the circumpoler around Antarctica moves
                                  > > from
                                  > > > > > west
                                  > > > > > > to
                                  > > > > > > > > east
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs, and these
                                  SSTs
                                  > > > gyre
                                  > > > > > > around
                                  > > > > > > > > and
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > create La Nina or La Nada, not El Nino. OTOH,
                                  > > with
                                  > > > > > > > relatively
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > cooler
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > waters in 1997, as flaring began to occur and
                                  > the
                                  > > > air
                                  > > > > > > > cleared
                                  > > > > > > > > > of
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > SOx,
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > the colder oceans inducted less AGAINST
                                  cirrus
                                  > in
                                  > > > the
                                  > > > > > > > > Southern
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > Oceans
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > and this resulted in warm SSTs, which gyred
                                  > > around
                                  > > > to
                                  > > > > > > give
                                  > > > > > > > us
                                  > > > > > > > > > the
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > largest El Nino in at least 500 years.
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > The latest satellite data for the lower
                                  > > troposphere:
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > Global trend per decade = +0.064°C, (Northern
                                  > > > > > Hemisphere
                                  > > > > > > =
                                  > > > > > > > > > +0.136°
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > C,
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > Southern Hemisphere = - 0.008°C.)
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > Global June 2002 = + 0.2°C, (Northern
                                  > Hemisphere
                                  > > =
                                  > > > > > +0.217°
                                  > > > > > > > C,
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > Southern
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > Hemisphere = +0.183°C.)
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > The asymetry between hemisphere is DIRECTLY
                                  > > related
                                  > > > > to
                                  > > > > > > what
                                  > > > > > > > > > > warming
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > oceans mean to EMFs and cirrus--in that the
                                  > > > Southern
                                  > > > > > > > Ocean's
                                  > > > > > > > > > > added
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > input of a current that moves so strongly
                                  from
                                  > > west
                                  > > > > to
                                  > > > > > > east
                                  > > > > > > > > > > around
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > Antarctica. A warmer inducter of the oceans
                                  > > inducts
                                  > > > > > > better,
                                  > > > > > > > > and
                                  > > > > > > > > > > in
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > this case, warmer for the northern
                                  hemisphere's
                                  > > > > oceans
                                  > > > > > > > means
                                  > > > > > > > > on
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > balance there is more induction for cirrus
                                  due
                                  > to
                                  > > > > > current
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > direction .
                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > . .
                                • fredwx
                                  You are losing me again here. You said that underneath where there WAS the convection in Western Africa, the positive charges that attracted the electron
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Aug 2, 2002
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                                    You are losing me again here.
                                    You said that "underneath where there WAS the convection in Western
                                    Africa, the positive charges that attracted the electron
                                    concentration, in a capacitive manner, are no longer there."

                                    Unerneath the convection over West Aftrica the thunderstorms will
                                    induce a positive charge on the ground in response to the negative
                                    charge in the lower portion of the clouds. The result is cloud to
                                    ground lightning. The stream of electrons channels downward from the
                                    cloud to the ground. As it nears the ground a positively charged
                                    channel meets it (return stroke?). What I understan you to mean is
                                    that after the discharges the ground and the lower cloud electical
                                    charges are neutralized. ????

                                    Then you said "That means these electrons concentrations will move
                                    (repelled by themselves, attracted to other positive cloud tops"

                                    I am lost here because I would think that the there would no longer
                                    be an electron concentration.

                                    anyway, I have said I am unsure when it comes to electricity.

                                    fred




                                    --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > > <<"And if so, it makes the charge on the front more what?">> You
                                    > > lost me here - what front? Do you mean the ITCZ?
                                    >
                                    > The ITCZ--yes. What happens is that relatively speaking underneath
                                    > where there WAS the convection in Western Africa, the positive
                                    > charges that attracted the electron concentration, in a capacitive
                                    > manner, are no longer there. That means these electrons
                                    > concentrations will move (repelled by themselves, attracted to
                                    other
                                    > positive cloud tops). In this case, they move along the ITCZ to
                                    > reach a similar equillibrium as that which occurred over the
                                    > convective cloud cover.
                                    >
                                    > I am not the only one interested in this theory. Check out this:
                                    >
                                    > http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/07/31/earth.rays/index.html
                                    >
                                    > Report: Cosmic rays influence climate change
                                    > July 31, 2002 Posted: 9:26 AM EDT (1326 GMT)
                                    >
                                    > By Richard Stenger
                                    >
                                    > (CNN) -- The Earth has experienced higher surface but not
                                    atmospheric
                                    > temperatures in recent decades. Now a climate scientist thinks he
                                    > knows why: highly charged particles originating beyond the solar
                                    > system.
                                    >
                                    > The inconsistencies in ground and air temperature patterns have led
                                    > some scientists to dismiss the idea that global warming is taking
                                    > place.
                                    >
                                    > But one New York researcher suggests the discrepancy takes place
                                    > because of the effect of interstellar cosmic rays on cloud
                                    coverage.
                                    > Other climate scientists have proposed a link between cosmic rays
                                    and
                                    > clouds.
                                    >
                                    > Research professor Fangqun Yu of the State University of New York-
                                    > Albany goes further, proposing that low and high altitude clouds
                                    > react differently to the rays, contributing to greater thermostat
                                    > gaps near the surface and higher in the atmosphere.
                                    >
                                    > The number of cosmic rays that strike Earth depends to some degree
                                    on
                                    > the sun. Solar winds, which can protect the Earth from the
                                    > interstellar rays, vary in intensity as the sun waxes and wanes in
                                    > intensity, according to Yu.
                                    >
                                    > "A systematic change in global cloud cover will change the
                                    > atmospheric heating profile," he said in a statement this week.
                                    >
                                    > "In other words, the cosmic ray-induced global cloud changes could
                                    be
                                    > the long-sought mechanism connecting solar and climate
                                    variability."
                                    >
                                    > Yu said that observations of global warming this century have
                                    > corresponded with lowered cosmic ray intensities.
                                    >
                                    > The hypothesis does not disregard man-made contributions to climate
                                    > change. Greenhouse gases introduced by humans could affect the
                                    cosmic
                                    > ray-cloud interactions, he said.
                                    >
                                    > In any case, Yu proposes that cosmic rays help stoke the formation
                                    of
                                    > dense clouds in the lower atmosphere while having a little or
                                    > negative affect on cloud cover in the upper atmosphere.
                                    >
                                    > The low clouds retain more surface energy, keeping the surrounding
                                    > air hot, while thin high clouds reflect more sunlight into space,
                                    > keeping the upper atmosphere cooler.
                                    >
                                    > Satellite data offer evidence consistent with the hypothesis, which
                                    > Yu presents in the July issue of the Journal of Geophysical
                                    Research-
                                    > Space Physics.
                                    >
                                    > +++++++
                                    >
                                    > Comments:
                                    >
                                    > What I want you to notice is the author of this research has NO EMF
                                    > training directly--he is an atmospheric scientist. Further, and
                                    more
                                    > importantly, he has NO BIOLOGY in his background. Most of these
                                    > scholars are highly specialized on the edge of their kens--and the
                                    > cross thinking just isn't there:
                                    >
                                    > http://www.albany.edu/~yfq/resume_txt.html
                                    >
                                    > EDUCATION
                                    >
                                    > 1998 Ph.D., Atmospheric Sciences, University of
                                    California
                                    > at Los Angeles
                                    > 1996 M.S., Atmospheric Sciences, University of
                                    California
                                    > at Los Angeles
                                    > 1994 M.S., Atmospheric Physics, Institute of
                                    Atmospheric
                                    > Physics, China
                                    > 1991 B.S., Atmospheric Sciences, Peking University, China
                                    >
                                    > PROFESSIONAL ACTIVITIES, AWARDS, HONORS
                                    >
                                    > Invited to give a review talk on the Effect of Galactic Cosmic
                                    > Rays on Aerosol
                                    > Nucleation, Workshop on Ion-Aerosol-Cloud Interactions, CERN,
                                    > Geneva,
                                    > Switzerland, April18-20, 2001.
                                    > (http://cloud.web.cern.ch/cloud/iaci_workshop)
                                    >
                                    > Publications:
                                    >
                                    > Yu, F. and R. P. Turco, From molecular clusters to nanoparticles:
                                    The
                                    > role of ambient ionization in tropospheric aerosol formation, J.
                                    > Geophys. Res., 106, 4797-4814, 2001.
                                    >
                                    > ++++++++++
                                    >
                                    > My point is that the experts are starting to see the EMF, as, for
                                    > instance B-1 and I have been documenting for over a year now, but
                                    > what isn't occurring is the connection between this physical
                                    forcing
                                    > and the stability of "climate" which can only come from modulation.
                                    >
                                    > Here are some additional links from the P. Sciences side of this:
                                    >
                                    > http://ae.atmos.uah.edu/AE/ams_2001b.html
                                    >
                                    > The SPECIAL workshop is entitled: "Space Weather and the Earth's
                                    > Weather and Climate: Links between solar activity, magnetospheric
                                    > variability, clouds, thunderstorms, and lightning." The workshop
                                    > hosts three distinct thematic groups which are working on :
                                    >
                                    > (1) Global Atmospheric Electric Circuit
                                    >
                                    > (2) Charged Particle Fluxes, Events, and Statistics and
                                    >
                                    > (3) Sprites and Lightning.
                                    >
                                    > During the workshop, distinct introductory review lectures will be
                                    > given and an extended poster session will be held for discussion
                                    and
                                    > planning of future research. For more detailed information on the
                                    > SPECIAL goals, registration forms, and recent announcements, check
                                    > out
                                    >
                                    > http://www.atmospheric-
                                    electricity.org/newsletters/2001fall/research-
                                    > activity.html
                                    >
                                    > http://www.sgo.fi/SPECIAL/
                                    >
                                    > http://www.atmospheric-
                                    electricity.org/newsletters/2001fall/research-
                                    > activity.html
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
                                    > > > Okay. If a neg charge accumulates at one end of a capacitor,
                                    > what
                                    > > > happens to the charge on the other end?
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Say a wave rolls of the coast of Africa and it brings negitive
                                    > > > charges to the ionosphere along the ITCZ. And quickly that
                                    > charge
                                    > > > spreads along the ITCZ all the way to South America, and in
                                    this
                                    > > > case, over the past day or so, all the way to the E. Pac.
                                    > > > Underneath, the charge will have a tendency to be what? And if
                                    > so,
                                    > > > it makes the charge on the front more what? And so over the
                                    > > > equatorial zones where there is fair weather, what charges will
                                    > the
                                    > > > ionosphere there become? Doran waves move by capacitance--
                                    hence
                                    > > > impedence is the measure of the oceans behavior . . .
                                    > > >
                                    > > > ++++++++++++++++++++++
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Below is a great link on dust.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > I think it really shows how EMFs are involved w/ the waves as
                                    the
                                    > > dry
                                    > > > air has your positive voltage to ground and really charges the
                                    > dust
                                    > > > and makes them suspend whereas the water vaper in the the air
                                    > takes
                                    > > > away that charge and causes the dust to drop by gravity.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Where you can really see the EMF/Gaia is as that dust wave goes
                                    > > near
                                    > > > our Florida West Keys area and gets broken up but then sort of
                                    > > > reforms along the Texas coast . . .
                                    > > >
                                    > > > The final set of frames is interesting, too, from an EMF stand
                                    > > point.
                                    > > > What I want everyone to notice is how when that wave comes off
                                    > the
                                    > > > African coast it electrifies the entire Atlantic and connects
                                    w/
                                    > > the
                                    > > > Pacific in a straight line. No waves, IOW, because the EMF
                                    > contrast
                                    > > > between the dry strip of the counter and equator and the wet
                                    area
                                    > > is
                                    > > > so grand. But in the process of moving like that, I suspect it
                                    > can
                                    > > > cause instability.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > The SOI right now is flat zero w/ no TS activity anywhere.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Understand it is very early spring for the Southern Hemisphere
                                    > and
                                    > > no
                                    > > > hydrology is going to the ocean biosphere in the Carribean to
                                    > speak
                                    > > > of. Typically, we would start to see some hydrology in
                                    September,
                                    > > as
                                    > > > someone here reminded us. BUT, with the dams, another story!
                                    > > >
                                    > > > With all these new sats and this new understanding of EMFs,
                                    folks
                                    > > > here are going to get a free intellectual ride that doesn't
                                    come
                                    > > > often in life. Strap up. It's going to be fun. When this
                                    becomes
                                    > > more
                                    > > > mainstream, you can tell your grand kids you were there when it
                                    > all
                                    > > > started.
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/tropic/real-
                                    > > > time/wavetrak/movies/atlsal/atlsalwavejava5.html
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                                    > > > > Capacitors store electricity and block the flow of Direct
                                    > > Current.
                                    > > > I
                                    > > > > understand it to be two electric conductors separated by a
                                    > > > > nonconductor of electric current.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
                                    > > > > > I totally agree that this is true--but disagree what I
                                    think
                                    > > you
                                    > > > > may
                                    > > > > > be trying to say.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Strikes over a TS would be like a leaking capaciter.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Do you know how a capaciter works?
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Put it this way--what do you think the charge of the
                                    surface
                                    > > > under
                                    > > > > an
                                    > > > > > eye is if the ionosphere carries a huge negitive charge?
                                    > What
                                    > > > kind
                                    > > > > > of electrons will be favored on the surface? What charge
                                    > will
                                    > > be
                                    > > > > > repelled and what attracted?
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...>
                                    wrote:
                                    > > > > > > RE: The huge voltages of electrons over the eye:
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > "Surprisingly, not much lightning occurs in the inner
                                    core
                                    > > > > (within
                                    > > > > > > about 100 km or 60 mi) of the tropical cyclone center.
                                    Only
                                    > > > > around
                                    > > > > > a
                                    > > > > > > dozen or less cloud-to-ground strikes per hour occur
                                    around
                                    > > the
                                    > > > > > > eyewall of the storm...."
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/tcfaq/G10.html
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...>
                                    > wrote:
                                    > > > > > > > have been observed, Fred.
                                    > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > And yes, it is a wave feature. Capacitance, for
                                    > instance,
                                    > > > > works
                                    > > > > > > > between the ionosphere, which is conductive to direct
                                    > > > currents,
                                    > > > > > > and
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > "> the oceans, which is also conductive, BUT the air is
                                    > > > > insulative--
                                    > > > > > > just
                                    > > > > > > > like a capaciter--which is thus able to communicate
                                    waves
                                    > > but
                                    > > > > not
                                    > > > > > > > DC. Get it?
                                    > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...>
                                    > > wrote:
                                    > > > > > > > > <<"LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical
                                    systems
                                    > > are
                                    > > > > > > > > electrical.">>
                                    > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > I am not sure what you mean here. As far as I
                                    remember,
                                    > > > > > tropical
                                    > > > > > > > > storms have less electrical energy (fewer lightning
                                    > > strikes)
                                    > > > > > than
                                    > > > > > > > > would be expected. I understand the reason has to do
                                    > with
                                    > > > the
                                    > > > > > > low
                                    > > > > > > > > level air temps being high and that this does not
                                    allow
                                    > a
                                    > > > > large
                                    > > > > > > > > enough zone of below freezing temps in the upper
                                    clouds
                                    > > to
                                    > > > > > > produce
                                    > > > > > > > > the electical charge separation. The result is
                                    heavier
                                    > > > > rainfall
                                    > > > > > > but
                                    > > > > > > > > less lightning discharges.
                                    > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > Fred
                                    > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart"
                                    <mike@u...>
                                    > > > wrote:
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx
                                    > <no_reply@y...>
                                    > > > > wrote:
                                    > > > > > > > > > > <<"is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the
                                    > > > currents
                                    > > > > > > > involved
                                    > > > > > > > > > are
                                    > > > > > > > > > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the
                                    > context
                                    > > of
                                    > > > > the
                                    > > > > > > > > earth's
                                    > > > > > > > > > > EMF.">>
                                    > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > Current = Voltage/Impedence which implies that
                                    > > > impedance
                                    > > > > is
                                    > > > > > > =
                                    > > > > > > > or
                                    > > > > > > > > > > similar to resistance?
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > Yes it is. It INCLUDES resistance. Capacitance.
                                    > > > > Inductance.
                                    > > > > > > > > Hence,
                                    > > > > > > > > > SSTs is part of its measure.
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure what you mean by "NOT just the
                                    > earth's
                                    > > > EMF
                                    > > > > > but
                                    > > > > > > > > > currents
                                    > > > > > > > > > > in the context of earth's EMF's???
                                    > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > As you know, I have put up this link to an abstract
                                    > > about
                                    > > > > > > > > measurable
                                    > > > > > > > > > induction by ocean currents:
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > http://www.gfdl.gov/~gth/netscape/1992/dbs9201.html
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > BUT, this is merely what ocean currents are like in
                                    > the
                                    > > > > > > context
                                    > > > > > > > of
                                    > > > > > > > > > the earth's EMF and ignores the "noise" of other
                                    > EMFs.
                                    > > > > What
                                    > > > > > I
                                    > > > > > > am
                                    > > > > > > > > > saying is that when a strike occurs this itself has
                                    > an
                                    > > > EMF
                                    > > > > in
                                    > > > > > > > that
                                    > > > > > > > > > locality and for that short period, with itself is
                                    > > > > ORGANIZED
                                    > > > > > > in
                                    > > > > > > > the
                                    > > > > > > > > > context of the earth's EMF. Hence, direction of
                                    > > current
                                    > > > > for
                                    > > > > > > > these
                                    > > > > > > > > > outliners or noise is going to be more significant
                                    > > > because
                                    > > > > we
                                    > > > > > > are
                                    > > > > > > > > > dealing with larger EMFs. Just by itself, the
                                    > earth's
                                    > > > EMF
                                    > > > > is
                                    > > > > > > > > fairly
                                    > > > > > > > > > small, so the induction off of it is likewise
                                    small.
                                    > > But
                                    > > > > in
                                    > > > > > > the
                                    > > > > > > > > > context of upper atmospheric EMFs then the
                                    direction
                                    > of
                                    > > > > ocean
                                    > > > > > > > > > currents start to matter for their inductive
                                    > properties
                                    > > > > > > depending
                                    > > > > > > > > on
                                    > > > > > > > > > their direction. THEN, this induction sums to be
                                    > > > > significant
                                    > > > > > > the
                                    > > > > > > > > > inductance subpart of impedence. Hence, when a
                                    Doran
                                    > > > wave
                                    > > > > > > goes
                                    > > > > > > > > > through the pulse of ions is met with a varying EMF
                                    > > > > condition!
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > In this context here is from TWC where a poster was
                                    > > > > > commenting
                                    > > > > > > on
                                    > > > > > > > > why
                                    > > > > > > > > > in the N. Atlantic TS development won't go toward
                                    the
                                    > > > > equator
                                    > > > > > > and
                                    > > > > > > > > my
                                    > > > > > > > > > response:
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > ". . . then it's the ITCZ position that is limiting
                                    > > > > > > development.
                                    > > > > > > > > NOT
                                    > > > > > > > > > Coriolois. Coriolois is exactly equal at the same
                                    > > > latitudes
                                    > > > > > > all
                                    > > > > > > > > over
                                    > > > > > > > > > the world, 365 days a year. If it was Coriolois
                                    > > limiting
                                    > > > > > > > > development
                                    > > > > > > > > > in the CV region in the North Atlantic, it
                                    > > > > wouldn't "Change"
                                    > > > > > > > during
                                    > > > > > > > > > the year."
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > "What makes the North Atlantic unusual is the
                                    > > dependence
                                    > > > of
                                    > > > > > > > > formation
                                    > > > > > > > > > of storms on the African Easterly Jet (AEJ); it
                                    > simply
                                    > > > > never
                                    > > > > > > gets
                                    > > > > > > > > > that far south to spit out a perturbation that far
                                    > > south."
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > My response:
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > YES coriolis is important, but not for the reasons
                                    so
                                    > > far
                                    > > > > > > stated.
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical systems
                                    > are
                                    > > > > > > > electrical.
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > Doran waves are critical to this EMF dynamic, and
                                    > that
                                    > > > > means
                                    > > > > > > dry
                                    > > > > > > > > > strips in the warm, tropical waters. This is where
                                    > the
                                    > > > > > counter
                                    > > > > > > > > blows.
                                    > > > > > > > > > Or dulldrums at worst. This makes for good fair
                                    > weather
                                    > > > > > > voltages
                                    > > > > > > > > > positive 250 volts to ground. Induction, IOW,
                                    offers
                                    > > > > nothing
                                    > > > > > > more
                                    > > > > > > > > to
                                    > > > > > > > > > impedance.
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > If you have very warm waters and induction from
                                    west
                                    > to
                                    > > > > east
                                    > > > > > > > these
                                    > > > > > > > > > waters will really be good proton catchers. That
                                    > leaves
                                    > > > > > > electrons
                                    > > > > > > > > in
                                    > > > > > > > > > the ionosphere for the ITCZ. Or Doran waves.
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > Further, coriolis will help define the inner EMF
                                    > > dynamic
                                    > > > of
                                    > > > > > > the
                                    > > > > > > > TS
                                    > > > > > > > > > itself.
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > Finally, landfalling brings about EMF questions of
                                    > EMF
                                    > > > > > > potentials
                                    > > > > > > > > > between land and ocean and monsoons are their own
                                    EMF
                                    > > > > > > dynamics,
                                    > > > > > > > > which
                                    > > > > > > > > > can overcome the gyres/counter EMFs dynamics.
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > Understand we are talking about HUGE IR values
                                    under
                                    > > > > cirrus.
                                    > > > > > > No
                                    > > > > > > > > EMF,
                                    > > > > > > > > > no cirrus, no warm core lows.
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > +++++
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > I would additionally add that the jet stream is
                                    going
                                    > > to
                                    > > > > > cause
                                    > > > > > > > EMF
                                    > > > > > > > > > instability as well as air pressure instability,
                                    and
                                    > > that
                                    > > > > EMF
                                    > > > > > > > > > instability is more why storms occur along the
                                    jets,
                                    > as
                                    > > > dry
                                    > > > > > > > > > lines/patches/strips meeting areas of conductivity
                                    > > means
                                    > > > > that
                                    > > > > > > > youll
                                    > > > > > > > > > have areas where cirrus are enhanced toward the
                                    > > > ionosphere
                                    > > > > in
                                    > > > > > > a
                                    > > > > > > > > VERY
                                    > > > > > > > > > strong manner and there won't be lack of negitive
                                    > > charges
                                    > > > > in
                                    > > > > > > the
                                    > > > > > > > > > ionosphere as there is so much positive to ground
                                    > > > voltages
                                    > > > > > all
                                    > > > > > > > > around
                                    > > > > > > > > > the place of instability. This means that you will
                                    > have
                                    > > > IR
                                    > > > > > > values
                                    > > > > > > > > > under the cirrus that are very high and nearby air
                                    > that
                                    > > > > > > doesn't
                                    > > > > > > > > > retain any heat and this spells for strong
                                    exchanges
                                    > of
                                    > > > > > energy.
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > This dynamic, from an EMF standpoint, differs from
                                    > the
                                    > > > > > > tropical
                                    > > > > > > > > > storm, which has the negitive charges above the
                                    warm
                                    > > core
                                    > > > > > low,
                                    > > > > > > > with
                                    > > > > > > > > > positive charges above the cirrus, so positive that
                                    > the
                                    > > > > upper
                                    > > > > > > > > clouds
                                    > > > > > > > > > can't ever reach the potential differences by
                                    > > themselves
                                    > > > > > being
                                    > > > > > > > more
                                    > > > > > > > > > positive yet, to discharge that difference with
                                    > sprites
                                    > > > and
                                    > > > > > > > elves,
                                    > > > > > > > > > and hence they to move upwards, enhanced by the
                                    > > positive
                                    > > > > > > charges
                                    > > > > > > > > > around the eye. Near the eye it is interesting
                                    that
                                    > > > strike
                                    > > > > > > > > activity
                                    > > > > > > > > > is rare. That is because the upper clouds and
                                    > > ionosphere
                                    > > > > is
                                    > > > > > > so
                                    > > > > > > > > > positively charged that it is difficult to take
                                    more
                                    > > > > > electrons
                                    > > > > > > > > away,
                                    > > > > > > > > > even from the lower clouds toward a positively
                                    > charged
                                    > > > > ocean
                                    > > > > > > > > surface.
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > The ocean itself tends toward nuetral and basic pH,
                                    > > btw.
                                    > > > > > > Land,
                                    > > > > > > > > otoh,
                                    > > > > > > > > > will have a more acidic pH and more protons there
                                    for
                                    > a
                                    > > > > > moving
                                    > > > > > > > > front
                                    > > > > > > > > > to move up to the high clouds from the ground. The
                                    > > > > > insulative
                                    > > > > > > > > > properties of hydrates and the pH of the oceans, of
                                    > > > course,
                                    > > > > > is
                                    > > > > > > > all
                                    > > > > > > > > > biologically connected, so one could see how waves
                                    > > coming
                                    > > > > off
                                    > > > > > > of
                                    > > > > > > > W.
                                    > > > > > > > > > Africa that mean biologically active as opposed to
                                    > not
                                    > > > > active
                                    > > > > > > > could
                                    > > > > > > > > > die or not, become tropical or not, depending on
                                    > those
                                    > > > > > > conditions.
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > I first have to say I tend to get lost when it
                                    > comes
                                    > > to
                                    > > > > > > > > > electricity.
                                    > > > > > > > > > > Are you then saying that given the earth's
                                    magnetic
                                    > > > > field,
                                    > > > > > > when
                                    > > > > > > > > the
                                    > > > > > > > > > > ocean currents move perpendicular across it east-
                                    > > west)
                                    > > > > this
                                    > > > > > > > will
                                    > > > > > > > > > > create an electrical current. The voltage of this
                                    > > > > > > electricial
                                    > > > > > > > > > current
                                    > > > > > > > > > > would then be equal to electrical current times
                                    the
                                    > > > > > > Impedence
                                    > > > > > > > > > > (resistance)??
                                    > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > Fred
                                    > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart"
                                    > > <mike@u...>
                                    > > > > > wrote:
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the
                                    > > > currents
                                    > > > > > > > involved
                                    > > > > > > > > > are
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the
                                    > > context
                                    > > > of
                                    > > > > > > the
                                    > > > > > > > > > earth's
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > EMF.
                                    > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > There is a great example right now in the
                                    Pacific
                                    > > as
                                    > > > > the
                                    > > > > > > SOI
                                    > > > > > > > is
                                    > > > > > > > > > > near
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > zero and pressures are VERY high in the
                                    > equatorial
                                    > > > > > > regions.
                                    > > > > > > > > That
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > means FAIR WEATHER voltages positive to ground
                                    > and
                                    > > > huge
                                    > > > > > > Doran
                                    > > > > > > > > > > waves.
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > Well, guess what? There are FOUR tropical
                                    > features
                                    > > > in
                                    > > > > > the
                                    > > > > > > > > > Pacific--
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > two in the E. Pac and two in the W. Pac!
                                    > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > I also checked the TOA data and there remains a
                                    > > > > windless
                                    > > > > > > line
                                    > > > > > > > > mid
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > range.
                                    > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > Another interesting feature is that with the
                                    > latest
                                    > > > > SSTs
                                    > > > > > > the
                                    > > > > > > > La
                                    > > > > > > > > > > Nina
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > 1, 2 continues to grow. Further, in the N.
                                    > Pacific
                                    > > > the
                                    > > > > > > > waters
                                    > > > > > > > > > > there
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > are warm anomaly in the E. Pac where the canes
                                    > > start
                                    > > > > and
                                    > > > > > > that
                                    > > > > > > > > is
                                    > > > > > > > > > > why
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > those E. Pac storms are forming, then cooling
                                    the
                                    > > > SSTs
                                    > > > > > > that
                                    > > > > > > > > gyre
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > around and you have a future with cold
                                    anomalies
                                    > > even
                                    > > > > in
                                    > > > > > > 3, 4
                                    > > > > > > > > due
                                    > > > > > > > > > > to
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > this. YET, in the S. Pacific in the same
                                    region,
                                    > > > just
                                    > > > > > > south,
                                    > > > > > > > > > SSTS
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > are initinally cold gyring in from the Southern
                                    > > > Oceans
                                    > > > > > and
                                    > > > > > > > then
                                    > > > > > > > > > the
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > eddy gets warm anomally in the eddy coming back
                                    > > > because
                                    > > > > > > cold
                                    > > > > > > > > > means
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > less impeadance coming back for cirrus. This
                                    is
                                    > > > > CLEARLY
                                    > > > > > > > > > reflected
                                    > > > > > > > > > > in
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > the SST anomalies:
                                    > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > http://psbsgi1.nesdis.noaa.gov:8080/PSB/EPS/SST/climo.html
                                    > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > Another feature to see is the cold anomalies in
                                    > the
                                    > > > > > > > Carribean.
                                    > > > > > > > > > > That
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > is because if you think about it, as it is July
                                    > > that
                                    > > > is
                                    > > > > > > the
                                    > > > > > > > > same
                                    > > > > > > > > > as
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > January for the N. Hemisphere. For the semi
                                    > > tropical
                                    > > > > > > regions
                                    > > > > > > > > > that
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > means early spring. Now, if there are DAMS now
                                    > on
                                    > > > the
                                    > > > > > > > Orinoco
                                    > > > > > > > > as
                                    > > > > > > > > > > the
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > winter snows in the mountains start to melt and
                                    > the
                                    > > > > > spring
                                    > > > > > > > > rains
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > come, and dams capture those early flows,
                                    > hydrology
                                    > > > is
                                    > > > > > > > plugged,
                                    > > > > > > > > > > guess
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > what? The Carribean becomes Gaia unhealthy.
                                    EMF
                                    > > > > > > impeadance
                                    > > > > > > > is
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > reduced there from the biological conditions.
                                    > This
                                    > > > is
                                    > > > > > > true
                                    > > > > > > > > > whether
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > we are talking about hydrate fields near the
                                    > > Orinoco
                                    > > > or
                                    > > > > > pH
                                    > > > > > > > > > levels.
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > Now, check out the SST anomalies there! Cold!
                                    > > This
                                    > > > is
                                    > > > > > > how
                                    > > > > > > > the
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > season shifts, my friends.
                                    > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > We have both a La Nina making mechanism in the
                                    E.
                                    > > Pac
                                    > > > > and
                                    > > > > > > a
                                    > > > > > > > > delay
                                    > > > > > > > > > > in
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > hydrology in the Carribean working full on
                                    right
                                    > > now,
                                    > > > > > > making
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > conditions EMF poor for tropical storms. OTOH,
                                    > > waves
                                    > > > > > > coming
                                    > > > > > > > > out
                                    > > > > > > > > > of
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > Africa are starting to feel the BENEFIT of
                                    delays
                                    > > of
                                    > > > > > > > hydrology
                                    > > > > > > > > > from
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > West Africa dams and hydrology changes. (I
                                    > haven't
                                    > > > been
                                    > > > > > > able
                                    > > > > > > > to
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > figure out quite yet what the even MORE recent
                                    > > > changes
                                    > > > > to
                                    > > > > > > the
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > Amazon's hydrology means, but if you look in
                                    the
                                    > > > delta
                                    > > > > > and
                                    > > > > > > > > > > extending
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > out there, there also are cold anamolies
                                    > matching,
                                    > > > > again,
                                    > > > > > > > their
                                    > > > > > > > > > > early
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > spring. Africa had cold anomalies in early
                                    > March,
                                    > > > > > > matching
                                    > > > > > > > > their
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > spring.
                                    > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > It is later in the fall (shifting season) when
                                    > > there
                                    > > > is
                                    > > > > a
                                    > > > > > > > match
                                    > > > > > > > > > of
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > the delayed hydrology of the South American
                                    > > > conditions
                                    > > > > w/
                                    > > > > > > the
                                    > > > > > > > > > West
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > African conditions that we see the season
                                    > actually
                                    > > > > taking
                                    > > > > > > > > form.
                                    > > > > > > > > > > This
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > happens to corresponded to the asymetric
                                    changes
                                    > by
                                    > > > > > > > hemisphere
                                    > > > > > > > > > that
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > are occurring in the Pacific, when Doran waves
                                    > have
                                    > > > > > really
                                    > > > > > > > come
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > strong from the E. Pac and you have that
                                    > resulting
                                    > > > warm
                                    > > > > > > > anomaly
                                    > > > > > > > > > > area
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > by Panama. That is why we have, from an EMF
                                    > > > > standpoint,
                                    > > > > > > had
                                    > > > > > > > > > Mitch,
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > Kevin, Iris, Caracus 1999, Michelle, and will
                                    > have
                                    > > > > > another
                                    > > > > > > > > Mitch
                                    > > > > > > > > > > like
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > storm LATER in the year.
                                    > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > With no SOx event from a volcano which drop
                                    phase
                                    > > > > change
                                    > > > > > > > > > > temperatures
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > of cirrus, we can also be sure that this storm
                                    (s)
                                    > > > will
                                    > > > > > > stall
                                    > > > > > > > > and
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > flood.
                                    > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx
                                    > > > <no_reply@y...>
                                    > > > > > > wrote:
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > How could warmer waters mean colder SSTs???
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > "Counterintuitively, in general warmer
                                    oceans
                                    > > > result
                                    > > > > > in
                                    > > > > > > > more
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > induction both for and against cirrus, which
                                    > > alters
                                    > > > > > > SSTs,
                                    > > > > > > > and
                                    > > > > > > > > > in
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > this
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > case,since the circumpoler around Antarctica
                                    > > moves
                                    > > > > from
                                    > > > > > > > west
                                    > > > > > > > > to
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > east
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs"...
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > Nevermind that I still see no strong evidence
                                    > > that
                                    > > > > > > > electrical
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > currents induced by ocean currents have any
                                    > > > > measurable
                                    > > > > > > > effect
                                    > > > > > > > > > on
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > cirrus clouds. IMHO, any currents are too
                                    weak
                                    > to
                                    > > > be
                                    > > > > > > > > > significant.
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > Fred
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart"
                                    > > > > <mike@u...>
                                    > > > > > > > wrote:
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.spacedaily.com/news/climate-
                                    > 02y.html
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > "In the Science paper, the El Nino-like
                                    > > > conditions
                                    > > > > > > > > correspond
                                    > > > > > > > > > > to
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > the
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > cold period. This is actually rather
                                    > > surprising,"
                                    > > > > > > Poulsen
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > said. "Most
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > climate scientists would have guessed that
                                    > the
                                    > > > cold
                                    > > > > > > > periods
                                    > > > > > > > > > > would
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > correspond to La Nina-like conditions. So,
                                    it
                                    > > is
                                    > > > > > clear
                                    > > > > > > > that
                                    > > > > > > > > > we
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > don't
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > completely understand the physics that
                                    > control
                                    > > > the
                                    > > > > > > > tropical
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > climate
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > variability between warm and cold periods."
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > Comment:
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is occurring is much like the colder
                                    > > oceans,
                                    > > > > > post
                                    > > > > > > > Mt.
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > Pinatubo
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > and pre flaring cycle peak of 1997 and
                                    oceans
                                    > > of
                                    > > > > now.
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > Counterintuitively, in general warmer
                                    oceans
                                    > > > result
                                    > > > > > in
                                    > > > > > > > more
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > induction
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > both for and against cirrus, which alters
                                    > SSTs,
                                    > > > and
                                    > > > > > in
                                    > > > > > > > this
                                    > > > > > > > > > > case,
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > since the circumpoler around Antarctica
                                    moves
                                    > > > from
                                    > > > > > > west
                                    > > > > > > > to
                                    > > > > > > > > > east
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs, and these
                                    > SSTs
                                    > > > > gyre
                                    > > > > > > > around
                                    > > > > > > > > > and
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > create La Nina or La Nada, not El Nino.
                                    OTOH,
                                    > > > with
                                    > > > > > > > > relatively
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > cooler
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > waters in 1997, as flaring began to occur
                                    and
                                    > > the
                                    > > > > air
                                    > > > > > > > > cleared
                                    > > > > > > > > > > of
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > SOx,
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > the colder oceans inducted less AGAINST
                                    > cirrus
                                    > > in
                                    > > > > the
                                    > > > > > > > > > Southern
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > Oceans
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > and this resulted in warm SSTs, which gyred
                                    > > > around
                                    > > > > to
                                    > > > > > > > give
                                    > > > > > > > > us
                                    > > > > > > > > > > the
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > largest El Nino in at least 500 years.
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > The latest satellite data for the lower
                                    > > > troposphere:
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > Global trend per decade = +0.064°C,
                                    (Northern
                                    > > > > > > Hemisphere
                                    > > > > > > > =
                                    > > > > > > > > > > +0.136°
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > C,
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > Southern Hemisphere = - 0.008°C.)
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > Global June 2002 = + 0.2°C, (Northern
                                    > > Hemisphere
                                    > > > =
                                    > > > > > > +0.217°
                                    > > > > > > > > C,
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > Southern
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hemisphere = +0.183°C.)
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > The asymetry between hemisphere is DIRECTLY
                                    > > > related
                                    > > > > > to
                                    > > > > > > > what
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > warming
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > oceans mean to EMFs and cirrus--in that the
                                    > > > > Southern
                                    > > > > > > > > Ocean's
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > added
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > input of a current that moves so strongly
                                    > from
                                    > > > west
                                    > > > > > to
                                    > > > > > > > east
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > around
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > Antarctica. A warmer inducter of the oceans
                                    > > > inducts
                                    > > > > > > > better,
                                    > > > > > > > > > and
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > in
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > this case, warmer for the northern
                                    > hemisphere's
                                    > > > > > oceans
                                    > > > > > > > > means
                                    > > > > > > > > > on
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > balance there is more induction for cirrus
                                    > due
                                    > > to
                                    > > > > > > current
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > direction .
                                    > > > > > > > > > > > > > . .
                                  • pawnfart
                                    ... Good question. Again, break it down. The convection is the motor to cause charge separation and ultimately that convection, which is driven by the sun,
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Aug 2, 2002
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                                      --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                                      > You are losing me again here.
                                      > You said that "underneath where there WAS the convection in Western
                                      > Africa, the positive charges that attracted the electron
                                      > concentration, in a capacitive manner, are no longer there."

                                      Good question. Again, break it down. The convection is the motor to
                                      cause charge separation and ultimately that convection, which is
                                      driven by the sun, is what keeps the lower ionosphere generally
                                      positively charged. That said, the MOST positively charged part of
                                      this dynamic is cirrus clouds pre-sprite/elve. There are TWO
                                      capacitive functions going on here, and really three if you hook in
                                      the oceans. That is because between GROUND and the lower portion of
                                      the clouds, there are dry line positive ion concentrations, which
                                      makes, by this opposits attract, the lower clouds NEGITIVE. HOWEVER,
                                      since no current flows but for strikes, elves and sprites, except
                                      inside the cloud itself, the upper part of the clouds becomes
                                      positive. Indeed, more positive than the lower ionosphere. Again,
                                      relatively speaking we are talking. So, above the positively charged
                                      upper cloud in capacitor number two, where there is, but for strikes,
                                      elves and sprites, no current in the air between cloud top and
                                      ionosphere. Therefore, electrons, if available, will move over that
                                      convective region and be drawn to the high clouds. Once the
                                      concentrations of ions get too extreme, say, from a strike from the
                                      low clouds--boom, you get elves and sprites and the cirrus are no
                                      longer opposites which attrack and are suspended by the EMF
                                      capacitive differences.


                                      What I am saying about the lower clouds to ocean dynamic is that it
                                      differs from the lower cloud to W. Africa dyamanic, that, int his
                                      particular situation resulted in the convection ending. While this
                                      ended the charge seperation that creates the ionosphere's positive
                                      charge, This still left this hug quantity of electrons in the
                                      ionosphere with no very positive cloud any more to be attracted to--
                                      so it moves to the ITCZ to get some further positive charges.



                                      >
                                      > Unerneath the convection over West Aftrica the thunderstorms will
                                      > induce a positive charge on the ground in response to the negative
                                      > charge in the lower portion of the clouds. The result is cloud to
                                      > ground lightning. The stream of electrons channels downward from
                                      the
                                      > cloud to the ground. As it nears the ground a positively charged
                                      > channel meets it (return stroke?). What I understan you to mean is
                                      > that after the discharges the ground and the lower cloud electical
                                      > charges are neutralized. ????
                                      >
                                      > Then you said "That means these electrons concentrations will move
                                      > (repelled by themselves, attracted to other positive cloud tops"
                                      >
                                      > I am lost here because I would think that the there would no longer
                                      > be an electron concentration.
                                      >
                                      > anyway, I have said I am unsure when it comes to electricity.
                                      >
                                      > fred
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > > <<"And if so, it makes the charge on the front more what?">>
                                      You
                                      > > > lost me here - what front? Do you mean the ITCZ?
                                      > >
                                      > > The ITCZ--yes. What happens is that relatively speaking
                                      underneath
                                      > > where there WAS the convection in Western Africa, the positive
                                      > > charges that attracted the electron concentration, in a
                                      capacitive
                                      > > manner, are no longer there. That means these electrons
                                      > > concentrations will move (repelled by themselves, attracted to
                                      > other
                                      > > positive cloud tops). In this case, they move along the ITCZ to
                                      > > reach a similar equillibrium as that which occurred over the
                                      > > convective cloud cover.
                                      > >
                                      > > I am not the only one interested in this theory. Check out this:
                                      > >
                                      > > http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/07/31/earth.rays/index.html
                                      > >
                                      > > Report: Cosmic rays influence climate change
                                      > > July 31, 2002 Posted: 9:26 AM EDT (1326 GMT)
                                      > >
                                      > > By Richard Stenger
                                      > >
                                      > > (CNN) -- The Earth has experienced higher surface but not
                                      > atmospheric
                                      > > temperatures in recent decades. Now a climate scientist thinks he
                                      > > knows why: highly charged particles originating beyond the solar
                                      > > system.
                                      > >
                                      > > The inconsistencies in ground and air temperature patterns have
                                      led
                                      > > some scientists to dismiss the idea that global warming is taking
                                      > > place.
                                      > >
                                      > > But one New York researcher suggests the discrepancy takes place
                                      > > because of the effect of interstellar cosmic rays on cloud
                                      > coverage.
                                      > > Other climate scientists have proposed a link between cosmic rays
                                      > and
                                      > > clouds.
                                      > >
                                      > > Research professor Fangqun Yu of the State University of New York-
                                      > > Albany goes further, proposing that low and high altitude clouds
                                      > > react differently to the rays, contributing to greater thermostat
                                      > > gaps near the surface and higher in the atmosphere.
                                      > >
                                      > > The number of cosmic rays that strike Earth depends to some
                                      degree
                                      > on
                                      > > the sun. Solar winds, which can protect the Earth from the
                                      > > interstellar rays, vary in intensity as the sun waxes and wanes
                                      in
                                      > > intensity, according to Yu.
                                      > >
                                      > > "A systematic change in global cloud cover will change the
                                      > > atmospheric heating profile," he said in a statement this week.
                                      > >
                                      > > "In other words, the cosmic ray-induced global cloud changes
                                      could
                                      > be
                                      > > the long-sought mechanism connecting solar and climate
                                      > variability."
                                      > >
                                      > > Yu said that observations of global warming this century have
                                      > > corresponded with lowered cosmic ray intensities.
                                      > >
                                      > > The hypothesis does not disregard man-made contributions to
                                      climate
                                      > > change. Greenhouse gases introduced by humans could affect the
                                      > cosmic
                                      > > ray-cloud interactions, he said.
                                      > >
                                      > > In any case, Yu proposes that cosmic rays help stoke the
                                      formation
                                      > of
                                      > > dense clouds in the lower atmosphere while having a little or
                                      > > negative affect on cloud cover in the upper atmosphere.
                                      > >
                                      > > The low clouds retain more surface energy, keeping the
                                      surrounding
                                      > > air hot, while thin high clouds reflect more sunlight into space,
                                      > > keeping the upper atmosphere cooler.
                                      > >
                                      > > Satellite data offer evidence consistent with the hypothesis,
                                      which
                                      > > Yu presents in the July issue of the Journal of Geophysical
                                      > Research-
                                      > > Space Physics.
                                      > >
                                      > > +++++++
                                      > >
                                      > > Comments:
                                      > >
                                      > > What I want you to notice is the author of this research has NO
                                      EMF
                                      > > training directly--he is an atmospheric scientist. Further, and
                                      > more
                                      > > importantly, he has NO BIOLOGY in his background. Most of these
                                      > > scholars are highly specialized on the edge of their kens--and
                                      the
                                      > > cross thinking just isn't there:
                                      > >
                                      > > http://www.albany.edu/~yfq/resume_txt.html
                                      > >
                                      > > EDUCATION
                                      > >
                                      > > 1998 Ph.D., Atmospheric Sciences, University of
                                      > California
                                      > > at Los Angeles
                                      > > 1996 M.S., Atmospheric Sciences, University of
                                      > California
                                      > > at Los Angeles
                                      > > 1994 M.S., Atmospheric Physics, Institute of
                                      > Atmospheric
                                      > > Physics, China
                                      > > 1991 B.S., Atmospheric Sciences, Peking University,
                                      China
                                      > >
                                      > > PROFESSIONAL ACTIVITIES, AWARDS, HONORS
                                      > >
                                      > > Invited to give a review talk on the Effect of Galactic Cosmic
                                      > > Rays on Aerosol
                                      > > Nucleation, Workshop on Ion-Aerosol-Cloud Interactions,
                                      CERN,
                                      > > Geneva,
                                      > > Switzerland, April18-20, 2001.
                                      > > (http://cloud.web.cern.ch/cloud/iaci_workshop)
                                      > >
                                      > > Publications:
                                      > >
                                      > > Yu, F. and R. P. Turco, From molecular clusters to nanoparticles:
                                      > The
                                      > > role of ambient ionization in tropospheric aerosol formation, J.
                                      > > Geophys. Res., 106, 4797-4814, 2001.
                                      > >
                                      > > ++++++++++
                                      > >
                                      > > My point is that the experts are starting to see the EMF, as, for
                                      > > instance B-1 and I have been documenting for over a year now, but
                                      > > what isn't occurring is the connection between this physical
                                      > forcing
                                      > > and the stability of "climate" which can only come from
                                      modulation.
                                      > >
                                      > > Here are some additional links from the P. Sciences side of this:
                                      > >
                                      > > http://ae.atmos.uah.edu/AE/ams_2001b.html
                                      > >
                                      > > The SPECIAL workshop is entitled: "Space Weather and the Earth's
                                      > > Weather and Climate: Links between solar activity, magnetospheric
                                      > > variability, clouds, thunderstorms, and lightning." The workshop
                                      > > hosts three distinct thematic groups which are working on :
                                      > >
                                      > > (1) Global Atmospheric Electric Circuit
                                      > >
                                      > > (2) Charged Particle Fluxes, Events, and Statistics and
                                      > >
                                      > > (3) Sprites and Lightning.
                                      > >
                                      > > During the workshop, distinct introductory review lectures will
                                      be
                                      > > given and an extended poster session will be held for discussion
                                      > and
                                      > > planning of future research. For more detailed information on the
                                      > > SPECIAL goals, registration forms, and recent announcements,
                                      check
                                      > > out
                                      > >
                                      > > http://www.atmospheric-
                                      > electricity.org/newsletters/2001fall/research-
                                      > > activity.html
                                      > >
                                      > > http://www.sgo.fi/SPECIAL/
                                      > >
                                      > > http://www.atmospheric-
                                      > electricity.org/newsletters/2001fall/research-
                                      > > activity.html
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...> wrote:
                                      > > > > Okay. If a neg charge accumulates at one end of a capacitor,
                                      > > what
                                      > > > > happens to the charge on the other end?
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Say a wave rolls of the coast of Africa and it brings
                                      negitive
                                      > > > > charges to the ionosphere along the ITCZ. And quickly that
                                      > > charge
                                      > > > > spreads along the ITCZ all the way to South America, and in
                                      > this
                                      > > > > case, over the past day or so, all the way to the E. Pac.
                                      > > > > Underneath, the charge will have a tendency to be what? And
                                      if
                                      > > so,
                                      > > > > it makes the charge on the front more what? And so over the
                                      > > > > equatorial zones where there is fair weather, what charges
                                      will
                                      > > the
                                      > > > > ionosphere there become? Doran waves move by capacitance--
                                      > hence
                                      > > > > impedence is the measure of the oceans behavior . . .
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > ++++++++++++++++++++++
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Below is a great link on dust.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > I think it really shows how EMFs are involved w/ the waves as
                                      > the
                                      > > > dry
                                      > > > > air has your positive voltage to ground and really charges
                                      the
                                      > > dust
                                      > > > > and makes them suspend whereas the water vaper in the the air
                                      > > takes
                                      > > > > away that charge and causes the dust to drop by gravity.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Where you can really see the EMF/Gaia is as that dust wave
                                      goes
                                      > > > near
                                      > > > > our Florida West Keys area and gets broken up but then sort
                                      of
                                      > > > > reforms along the Texas coast . . .
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > The final set of frames is interesting, too, from an EMF
                                      stand
                                      > > > point.
                                      > > > > What I want everyone to notice is how when that wave comes
                                      off
                                      > > the
                                      > > > > African coast it electrifies the entire Atlantic and connects
                                      > w/
                                      > > > the
                                      > > > > Pacific in a straight line. No waves, IOW, because the EMF
                                      > > contrast
                                      > > > > between the dry strip of the counter and equator and the wet
                                      > area
                                      > > > is
                                      > > > > so grand. But in the process of moving like that, I suspect
                                      it
                                      > > can
                                      > > > > cause instability.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > The SOI right now is flat zero w/ no TS activity anywhere.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Understand it is very early spring for the Southern
                                      Hemisphere
                                      > > and
                                      > > > no
                                      > > > > hydrology is going to the ocean biosphere in the Carribean to
                                      > > speak
                                      > > > > of. Typically, we would start to see some hydrology in
                                      > September,
                                      > > > as
                                      > > > > someone here reminded us. BUT, with the dams, another story!
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > With all these new sats and this new understanding of EMFs,
                                      > folks
                                      > > > > here are going to get a free intellectual ride that doesn't
                                      > come
                                      > > > > often in life. Strap up. It's going to be fun. When this
                                      > becomes
                                      > > > more
                                      > > > > mainstream, you can tell your grand kids you were there when
                                      it
                                      > > all
                                      > > > > started.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/tropic/real-
                                      > > > > time/wavetrak/movies/atlsal/atlsalwavejava5.html
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                                      > > > > > Capacitors store electricity and block the flow of Direct
                                      > > > Current.
                                      > > > > I
                                      > > > > > understand it to be two electric conductors separated by a
                                      > > > > > nonconductor of electric current.
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...>
                                      wrote:
                                      > > > > > > I totally agree that this is true--but disagree what I
                                      > think
                                      > > > you
                                      > > > > > may
                                      > > > > > > be trying to say.
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > Strikes over a TS would be like a leaking capaciter.
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > Do you know how a capaciter works?
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > Put it this way--what do you think the charge of the
                                      > surface
                                      > > > > under
                                      > > > > > an
                                      > > > > > > eye is if the ionosphere carries a huge negitive charge?
                                      > > What
                                      > > > > kind
                                      > > > > > > of electrons will be favored on the surface? What charge
                                      > > will
                                      > > > be
                                      > > > > > > repelled and what attracted?
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx <no_reply@y...>
                                      > wrote:
                                      > > > > > > > RE: The huge voltages of electrons over the eye:
                                      > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > "Surprisingly, not much lightning occurs in the inner
                                      > core
                                      > > > > > (within
                                      > > > > > > > about 100 km or 60 mi) of the tropical cyclone center.
                                      > Only
                                      > > > > > around
                                      > > > > > > a
                                      > > > > > > > dozen or less cloud-to-ground strikes per hour occur
                                      > around
                                      > > > the
                                      > > > > > > > eyewall of the storm...."
                                      > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/tcfaq/G10.html
                                      > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart" <mike@u...>
                                      > > wrote:
                                      > > > > > > > > have been observed, Fred.
                                      > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > And yes, it is a wave feature. Capacitance, for
                                      > > instance,
                                      > > > > > works
                                      > > > > > > > > between the ionosphere, which is conductive to direct
                                      > > > > currents,
                                      > > > > > > > and
                                      > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > "> the oceans, which is also conductive, BUT the air is
                                      > > > > > insulative--
                                      > > > > > > > just
                                      > > > > > > > > like a capaciter--which is thus able to communicate
                                      > waves
                                      > > > but
                                      > > > > > not
                                      > > > > > > > > DC. Get it?
                                      > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx
                                      <no_reply@y...>
                                      > > > wrote:
                                      > > > > > > > > > <<"LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical
                                      > systems
                                      > > > are
                                      > > > > > > > > > electrical.">>
                                      > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > I am not sure what you mean here. As far as I
                                      > remember,
                                      > > > > > > tropical
                                      > > > > > > > > > storms have less electrical energy (fewer lightning
                                      > > > strikes)
                                      > > > > > > than
                                      > > > > > > > > > would be expected. I understand the reason has to
                                      do
                                      > > with
                                      > > > > the
                                      > > > > > > > low
                                      > > > > > > > > > level air temps being high and that this does not
                                      > allow
                                      > > a
                                      > > > > > large
                                      > > > > > > > > > enough zone of below freezing temps in the upper
                                      > clouds
                                      > > > to
                                      > > > > > > > produce
                                      > > > > > > > > > the electical charge separation. The result is
                                      > heavier
                                      > > > > > rainfall
                                      > > > > > > > but
                                      > > > > > > > > > less lightning discharges.
                                      > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > Fred
                                      > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart"
                                      > <mike@u...>
                                      > > > > wrote:
                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx
                                      > > <no_reply@y...>
                                      > > > > > wrote:
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > <<"is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the
                                      > > > > currents
                                      > > > > > > > > involved
                                      > > > > > > > > > > are
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the
                                      > > context
                                      > > > of
                                      > > > > > the
                                      > > > > > > > > > earth's
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > EMF.">>
                                      > > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > Current = Voltage/Impedence which implies that
                                      > > > > impedance
                                      > > > > > is
                                      > > > > > > > =
                                      > > > > > > > > or
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > similar to resistance?
                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > Yes it is. It INCLUDES resistance. Capacitance.
                                      > > > > > Inductance.
                                      > > > > > > > > > Hence,
                                      > > > > > > > > > > SSTs is part of its measure.
                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure what you mean by "NOT just the
                                      > > earth's
                                      > > > > EMF
                                      > > > > > > but
                                      > > > > > > > > > > currents
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > in the context of earth's EMF's???
                                      > > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > As you know, I have put up this link to an
                                      abstract
                                      > > > about
                                      > > > > > > > > > measurable
                                      > > > > > > > > > > induction by ocean currents:
                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                      http://www.gfdl.gov/~gth/netscape/1992/dbs9201.html
                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > BUT, this is merely what ocean currents are like
                                      in
                                      > > the
                                      > > > > > > > context
                                      > > > > > > > > of
                                      > > > > > > > > > > the earth's EMF and ignores the "noise" of other
                                      > > EMFs.
                                      > > > > > What
                                      > > > > > > I
                                      > > > > > > > am
                                      > > > > > > > > > > saying is that when a strike occurs this itself
                                      has
                                      > > an
                                      > > > > EMF
                                      > > > > > in
                                      > > > > > > > > that
                                      > > > > > > > > > > locality and for that short period, with itself
                                      is
                                      > > > > > ORGANIZED
                                      > > > > > > > in
                                      > > > > > > > > the
                                      > > > > > > > > > > context of the earth's EMF. Hence, direction of
                                      > > > current
                                      > > > > > for
                                      > > > > > > > > these
                                      > > > > > > > > > > outliners or noise is going to be more
                                      significant
                                      > > > > because
                                      > > > > > we
                                      > > > > > > > are
                                      > > > > > > > > > > dealing with larger EMFs. Just by itself, the
                                      > > earth's
                                      > > > > EMF
                                      > > > > > is
                                      > > > > > > > > > fairly
                                      > > > > > > > > > > small, so the induction off of it is likewise
                                      > small.
                                      > > > But
                                      > > > > > in
                                      > > > > > > > the
                                      > > > > > > > > > > context of upper atmospheric EMFs then the
                                      > direction
                                      > > of
                                      > > > > > ocean
                                      > > > > > > > > > > currents start to matter for their inductive
                                      > > properties
                                      > > > > > > > depending
                                      > > > > > > > > > on
                                      > > > > > > > > > > their direction. THEN, this induction sums to be
                                      > > > > > significant
                                      > > > > > > > the
                                      > > > > > > > > > > inductance subpart of impedence. Hence, when a
                                      > Doran
                                      > > > > wave
                                      > > > > > > > goes
                                      > > > > > > > > > > through the pulse of ions is met with a varying
                                      EMF
                                      > > > > > condition!
                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > In this context here is from TWC where a poster
                                      was
                                      > > > > > > commenting
                                      > > > > > > > on
                                      > > > > > > > > > why
                                      > > > > > > > > > > in the N. Atlantic TS development won't go toward
                                      > the
                                      > > > > > equator
                                      > > > > > > > and
                                      > > > > > > > > > my
                                      > > > > > > > > > > response:
                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > ". . . then it's the ITCZ position that is
                                      limiting
                                      > > > > > > > development.
                                      > > > > > > > > > NOT
                                      > > > > > > > > > > Coriolois. Coriolois is exactly equal at the same
                                      > > > > latitudes
                                      > > > > > > > all
                                      > > > > > > > > > over
                                      > > > > > > > > > > the world, 365 days a year. If it was Coriolois
                                      > > > limiting
                                      > > > > > > > > > development
                                      > > > > > > > > > > in the CV region in the North Atlantic, it
                                      > > > > > wouldn't "Change"
                                      > > > > > > > > during
                                      > > > > > > > > > > the year."
                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > "What makes the North Atlantic unusual is the
                                      > > > dependence
                                      > > > > of
                                      > > > > > > > > > formation
                                      > > > > > > > > > > of storms on the African Easterly Jet (AEJ); it
                                      > > simply
                                      > > > > > never
                                      > > > > > > > gets
                                      > > > > > > > > > > that far south to spit out a perturbation that
                                      far
                                      > > > south."
                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > My response:
                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > YES coriolis is important, but not for the
                                      reasons
                                      > so
                                      > > > far
                                      > > > > > > > stated.
                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > LOOK. Start out with the idea that tropical
                                      systems
                                      > > are
                                      > > > > > > > > electrical.
                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > Doran waves are critical to this EMF dynamic, and
                                      > > that
                                      > > > > > means
                                      > > > > > > > dry
                                      > > > > > > > > > > strips in the warm, tropical waters. This is
                                      where
                                      > > the
                                      > > > > > > counter
                                      > > > > > > > > > blows.
                                      > > > > > > > > > > Or dulldrums at worst. This makes for good fair
                                      > > weather
                                      > > > > > > > voltages
                                      > > > > > > > > > > positive 250 volts to ground. Induction, IOW,
                                      > offers
                                      > > > > > nothing
                                      > > > > > > > more
                                      > > > > > > > > > to
                                      > > > > > > > > > > impedance.
                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > If you have very warm waters and induction from
                                      > west
                                      > > to
                                      > > > > > east
                                      > > > > > > > > these
                                      > > > > > > > > > > waters will really be good proton catchers. That
                                      > > leaves
                                      > > > > > > > electrons
                                      > > > > > > > > > in
                                      > > > > > > > > > > the ionosphere for the ITCZ. Or Doran waves.
                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > Further, coriolis will help define the inner EMF
                                      > > > dynamic
                                      > > > > of
                                      > > > > > > > the
                                      > > > > > > > > TS
                                      > > > > > > > > > > itself.
                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > Finally, landfalling brings about EMF questions
                                      of
                                      > > EMF
                                      > > > > > > > potentials
                                      > > > > > > > > > > between land and ocean and monsoons are their own
                                      > EMF
                                      > > > > > > > dynamics,
                                      > > > > > > > > > which
                                      > > > > > > > > > > can overcome the gyres/counter EMFs dynamics.
                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > Understand we are talking about HUGE IR values
                                      > under
                                      > > > > > cirrus.
                                      > > > > > > > No
                                      > > > > > > > > > EMF,
                                      > > > > > > > > > > no cirrus, no warm core lows.
                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > +++++
                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > I would additionally add that the jet stream is
                                      > going
                                      > > > to
                                      > > > > > > cause
                                      > > > > > > > > EMF
                                      > > > > > > > > > > instability as well as air pressure instability,
                                      > and
                                      > > > that
                                      > > > > > EMF
                                      > > > > > > > > > > instability is more why storms occur along the
                                      > jets,
                                      > > as
                                      > > > > dry
                                      > > > > > > > > > > lines/patches/strips meeting areas of
                                      conductivity
                                      > > > means
                                      > > > > > that
                                      > > > > > > > > youll
                                      > > > > > > > > > > have areas where cirrus are enhanced toward the
                                      > > > > ionosphere
                                      > > > > > in
                                      > > > > > > > a
                                      > > > > > > > > > VERY
                                      > > > > > > > > > > strong manner and there won't be lack of negitive
                                      > > > charges
                                      > > > > > in
                                      > > > > > > > the
                                      > > > > > > > > > > ionosphere as there is so much positive to ground
                                      > > > > voltages
                                      > > > > > > all
                                      > > > > > > > > > around
                                      > > > > > > > > > > the place of instability. This means that you
                                      will
                                      > > have
                                      > > > > IR
                                      > > > > > > > values
                                      > > > > > > > > > > under the cirrus that are very high and nearby
                                      air
                                      > > that
                                      > > > > > > > doesn't
                                      > > > > > > > > > > retain any heat and this spells for strong
                                      > exchanges
                                      > > of
                                      > > > > > > energy.
                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > This dynamic, from an EMF standpoint, differs
                                      from
                                      > > the
                                      > > > > > > > tropical
                                      > > > > > > > > > > storm, which has the negitive charges above the
                                      > warm
                                      > > > core
                                      > > > > > > low,
                                      > > > > > > > > with
                                      > > > > > > > > > > positive charges above the cirrus, so positive
                                      that
                                      > > the
                                      > > > > > upper
                                      > > > > > > > > > clouds
                                      > > > > > > > > > > can't ever reach the potential differences by
                                      > > > themselves
                                      > > > > > > being
                                      > > > > > > > > more
                                      > > > > > > > > > > positive yet, to discharge that difference with
                                      > > sprites
                                      > > > > and
                                      > > > > > > > > elves,
                                      > > > > > > > > > > and hence they to move upwards, enhanced by the
                                      > > > positive
                                      > > > > > > > charges
                                      > > > > > > > > > > around the eye. Near the eye it is interesting
                                      > that
                                      > > > > strike
                                      > > > > > > > > > activity
                                      > > > > > > > > > > is rare. That is because the upper clouds and
                                      > > > ionosphere
                                      > > > > > is
                                      > > > > > > > so
                                      > > > > > > > > > > positively charged that it is difficult to take
                                      > more
                                      > > > > > > electrons
                                      > > > > > > > > > away,
                                      > > > > > > > > > > even from the lower clouds toward a positively
                                      > > charged
                                      > > > > > ocean
                                      > > > > > > > > > surface.
                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > The ocean itself tends toward nuetral and basic
                                      pH,
                                      > > > btw.
                                      > > > > > > > Land,
                                      > > > > > > > > > otoh,
                                      > > > > > > > > > > will have a more acidic pH and more protons there
                                      > for
                                      > > a
                                      > > > > > > moving
                                      > > > > > > > > > front
                                      > > > > > > > > > > to move up to the high clouds from the ground.
                                      The
                                      > > > > > > insulative
                                      > > > > > > > > > > properties of hydrates and the pH of the oceans,
                                      of
                                      > > > > course,
                                      > > > > > > is
                                      > > > > > > > > all
                                      > > > > > > > > > > biologically connected, so one could see how
                                      waves
                                      > > > coming
                                      > > > > > off
                                      > > > > > > > of
                                      > > > > > > > > W.
                                      > > > > > > > > > > Africa that mean biologically active as opposed
                                      to
                                      > > not
                                      > > > > > active
                                      > > > > > > > > could
                                      > > > > > > > > > > die or not, become tropical or not, depending on
                                      > > those
                                      > > > > > > > conditions.
                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > I first have to say I tend to get lost when it
                                      > > comes
                                      > > > to
                                      > > > > > > > > > > electricity.
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > Are you then saying that given the earth's
                                      > magnetic
                                      > > > > > field,
                                      > > > > > > > when
                                      > > > > > > > > > the
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > ocean currents move perpendicular across it
                                      east-
                                      > > > west)
                                      > > > > > this
                                      > > > > > > > > will
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > create an electrical current. The voltage of
                                      this
                                      > > > > > > > electricial
                                      > > > > > > > > > > current
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > would then be equal to electrical current times
                                      > the
                                      > > > > > > > Impedence
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > (resistance)??
                                      > > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > Fred
                                      > > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart"
                                      > > > <mike@u...>
                                      > > > > > > wrote:
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > is total IMPEADANCE (Z). That is because the
                                      > > > > currents
                                      > > > > > > > > involved
                                      > > > > > > > > > > are
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > NOT just the earth's EMF but currents in the
                                      > > > context
                                      > > > > of
                                      > > > > > > > the
                                      > > > > > > > > > > earth's
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > EMF.
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > There is a great example right now in the
                                      > Pacific
                                      > > > as
                                      > > > > > the
                                      > > > > > > > SOI
                                      > > > > > > > > is
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > near
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > zero and pressures are VERY high in the
                                      > > equatorial
                                      > > > > > > > regions.
                                      > > > > > > > > > That
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > means FAIR WEATHER voltages positive to
                                      ground
                                      > > and
                                      > > > > huge
                                      > > > > > > > Doran
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > waves.
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, guess what? There are FOUR tropical
                                      > > features
                                      > > > > in
                                      > > > > > > the
                                      > > > > > > > > > > Pacific--
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > two in the E. Pac and two in the W. Pac!
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > I also checked the TOA data and there remains
                                      a
                                      > > > > > windless
                                      > > > > > > > line
                                      > > > > > > > > > mid
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > range.
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > Another interesting feature is that with the
                                      > > latest
                                      > > > > > SSTs
                                      > > > > > > > the
                                      > > > > > > > > La
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > Nina
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > 1, 2 continues to grow. Further, in the N.
                                      > > Pacific
                                      > > > > the
                                      > > > > > > > > waters
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > there
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > are warm anomaly in the E. Pac where the
                                      canes
                                      > > > start
                                      > > > > > and
                                      > > > > > > > that
                                      > > > > > > > > > is
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > why
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > those E. Pac storms are forming, then cooling
                                      > the
                                      > > > > SSTs
                                      > > > > > > > that
                                      > > > > > > > > > gyre
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > around and you have a future with cold
                                      > anomalies
                                      > > > even
                                      > > > > > in
                                      > > > > > > > 3, 4
                                      > > > > > > > > > due
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > to
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > this. YET, in the S. Pacific in the same
                                      > region,
                                      > > > > just
                                      > > > > > > > south,
                                      > > > > > > > > > > SSTS
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > are initinally cold gyring in from the
                                      Southern
                                      > > > > Oceans
                                      > > > > > > and
                                      > > > > > > > > then
                                      > > > > > > > > > > the
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > eddy gets warm anomally in the eddy coming
                                      back
                                      > > > > because
                                      > > > > > > > cold
                                      > > > > > > > > > > means
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > less impeadance coming back for cirrus. This
                                      > is
                                      > > > > > CLEARLY
                                      > > > > > > > > > > reflected
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > in
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > the SST anomalies:
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > http://psbsgi1.nesdis.noaa.gov:8080/PSB/EPS/SST/climo.html
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > Another feature to see is the cold anomalies
                                      in
                                      > > the
                                      > > > > > > > > Carribean.
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > That
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > is because if you think about it, as it is
                                      July
                                      > > > that
                                      > > > > is
                                      > > > > > > > the
                                      > > > > > > > > > same
                                      > > > > > > > > > > as
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > January for the N. Hemisphere. For the semi
                                      > > > tropical
                                      > > > > > > > regions
                                      > > > > > > > > > > that
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > means early spring. Now, if there are DAMS
                                      now
                                      > > on
                                      > > > > the
                                      > > > > > > > > Orinoco
                                      > > > > > > > > > as
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > the
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > winter snows in the mountains start to melt
                                      and
                                      > > the
                                      > > > > > > spring
                                      > > > > > > > > > rains
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > come, and dams capture those early flows,
                                      > > hydrology
                                      > > > > is
                                      > > > > > > > > plugged,
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > guess
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > what? The Carribean becomes Gaia unhealthy.
                                      > EMF
                                      > > > > > > > impeadance
                                      > > > > > > > > is
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > reduced there from the biological
                                      conditions.
                                      > > This
                                      > > > > is
                                      > > > > > > > true
                                      > > > > > > > > > > whether
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > we are talking about hydrate fields near the
                                      > > > Orinoco
                                      > > > > or
                                      > > > > > > pH
                                      > > > > > > > > > > levels.
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, check out the SST anomalies there!
                                      Cold!
                                      > > > This
                                      > > > > is
                                      > > > > > > > how
                                      > > > > > > > > the
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > season shifts, my friends.
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > We have both a La Nina making mechanism in
                                      the
                                      > E.
                                      > > > Pac
                                      > > > > > and
                                      > > > > > > > a
                                      > > > > > > > > > delay
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > in
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > hydrology in the Carribean working full on
                                      > right
                                      > > > now,
                                      > > > > > > > making
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > conditions EMF poor for tropical storms.
                                      OTOH,
                                      > > > waves
                                      > > > > > > > coming
                                      > > > > > > > > > out
                                      > > > > > > > > > > of
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > Africa are starting to feel the BENEFIT of
                                      > delays
                                      > > > of
                                      > > > > > > > > hydrology
                                      > > > > > > > > > > from
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > West Africa dams and hydrology changes. (I
                                      > > haven't
                                      > > > > been
                                      > > > > > > > able
                                      > > > > > > > > to
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > figure out quite yet what the even MORE
                                      recent
                                      > > > > changes
                                      > > > > > to
                                      > > > > > > > the
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > Amazon's hydrology means, but if you look in
                                      > the
                                      > > > > delta
                                      > > > > > > and
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > extending
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > out there, there also are cold anamolies
                                      > > matching,
                                      > > > > > again,
                                      > > > > > > > > their
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > early
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > spring. Africa had cold anomalies in early
                                      > > March,
                                      > > > > > > > matching
                                      > > > > > > > > > their
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > spring.
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > It is later in the fall (shifting season)
                                      when
                                      > > > there
                                      > > > > is
                                      > > > > > a
                                      > > > > > > > > match
                                      > > > > > > > > > > of
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > the delayed hydrology of the South American
                                      > > > > conditions
                                      > > > > > w/
                                      > > > > > > > the
                                      > > > > > > > > > > West
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > African conditions that we see the season
                                      > > actually
                                      > > > > > taking
                                      > > > > > > > > > form.
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > This
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > happens to corresponded to the asymetric
                                      > changes
                                      > > by
                                      > > > > > > > > hemisphere
                                      > > > > > > > > > > that
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > are occurring in the Pacific, when Doran
                                      waves
                                      > > have
                                      > > > > > > really
                                      > > > > > > > > come
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > strong from the E. Pac and you have that
                                      > > resulting
                                      > > > > warm
                                      > > > > > > > > anomaly
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > area
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > by Panama. That is why we have, from an EMF
                                      > > > > > standpoint,
                                      > > > > > > > had
                                      > > > > > > > > > > Mitch,
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > Kevin, Iris, Caracus 1999, Michelle, and will
                                      > > have
                                      > > > > > > another
                                      > > > > > > > > > Mitch
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > like
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > storm LATER in the year.
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > With no SOx event from a volcano which drop
                                      > phase
                                      > > > > > change
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > temperatures
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > of cirrus, we can also be sure that this storm
                                      > (s)
                                      > > > > will
                                      > > > > > > > stall
                                      > > > > > > > > > and
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > flood.
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., fredwx
                                      > > > > <no_reply@y...>
                                      > > > > > > > wrote:
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > How could warmer waters mean colder SSTs???
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Counterintuitively, in general warmer
                                      > oceans
                                      > > > > result
                                      > > > > > > in
                                      > > > > > > > > more
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > induction both for and against cirrus,
                                      which
                                      > > > alters
                                      > > > > > > > SSTs,
                                      > > > > > > > > and
                                      > > > > > > > > > > in
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > this
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > case,since the circumpoler around
                                      Antarctica
                                      > > > moves
                                      > > > > > from
                                      > > > > > > > > west
                                      > > > > > > > > > to
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > east
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs"...
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nevermind that I still see no strong
                                      evidence
                                      > > > that
                                      > > > > > > > > electrical
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > currents induced by ocean currents have any
                                      > > > > > measurable
                                      > > > > > > > > effect
                                      > > > > > > > > > > on
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > cirrus clouds. IMHO, any currents are too
                                      > weak
                                      > > to
                                      > > > > be
                                      > > > > > > > > > > significant.
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fred
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In methanehydrateclub@y..., "pawnfart"
                                      > > > > > <mike@u...>
                                      > > > > > > > > wrote:
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.spacedaily.com/news/climate-
                                      > > 02y.html
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "In the Science paper, the El Nino-like
                                      > > > > conditions
                                      > > > > > > > > > correspond
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > to
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > the
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cold period. This is actually rather
                                      > > > surprising,"
                                      > > > > > > > Poulsen
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > said. "Most
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > climate scientists would have guessed
                                      that
                                      > > the
                                      > > > > cold
                                      > > > > > > > > periods
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > would
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > correspond to La Nina-like conditions.
                                      So,
                                      > it
                                      > > > is
                                      > > > > > > clear
                                      > > > > > > > > that
                                      > > > > > > > > > > we
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > don't
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > completely understand the physics that
                                      > > control
                                      > > > > the
                                      > > > > > > > > tropical
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > climate
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > variability between warm and cold
                                      periods."
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Comment:
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is occurring is much like the colder
                                      > > > oceans,
                                      > > > > > > post
                                      > > > > > > > > Mt.
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > Pinatubo
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and pre flaring cycle peak of 1997 and
                                      > oceans
                                      > > > of
                                      > > > > > now.
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Counterintuitively, in general warmer
                                      > oceans
                                      > > > > result
                                      > > > > > > in
                                      > > > > > > > > more
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > induction
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > both for and against cirrus, which alters
                                      > > SSTs,
                                      > > > > and
                                      > > > > > > in
                                      > > > > > > > > this
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > case,
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > since the circumpoler around Antarctica
                                      > moves
                                      > > > > from
                                      > > > > > > > west
                                      > > > > > > > > to
                                      > > > > > > > > > > east
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > warmer waters meand colder SSTs, and
                                      these
                                      > > SSTs
                                      > > > > > gyre
                                      > > > > > > > > around
                                      > > > > > > > > > > and
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > create La Nina or La Nada, not El Nino.
                                      > OTOH,
                                      > > > > with
                                      > > > > > > > > > relatively
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > cooler
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > waters in 1997, as flaring began to occur
                                      > and
                                      > > > the
                                      > > > > > air
                                      > > > > > > > > > cleared
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > of
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > SOx,
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the colder oceans inducted less AGAINST
                                      > > cirrus
                                      > > > in
                                      > > > > > the
                                      > > > > > > > > > > Southern
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oceans
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and this resulted in warm SSTs, which
                                      gyred
                                      > > > > around
                                      > > > > > to
                                      > > > > > > > > give
                                      > > > > > > > > > us
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > the
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > largest El Nino in at least 500 years.
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The latest satellite data for the lower
                                      > > > > troposphere:
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Global trend per decade = +0.064°C,
                                      > (Northern
                                      > > > > > > > Hemisphere
                                      > > > > > > > > =
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > +0.136°
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > C,
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Southern Hemisphere = - 0.008°C.)
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Global June 2002 = + 0.2°C, (Northern
                                      > > > Hemisphere
                                      > > > > =
                                      > > > > > > > +0.217°
                                      > > > > > > > > > C,
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > Southern
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hemisphere = +0.183°C.)
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The asymetry between hemisphere is
                                      DIRECTLY
                                      > > > > related
                                      > > > > > > to
                                      > > > > > > > > what
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > warming
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > oceans mean to EMFs and cirrus--in that
                                      the
                                      > > > > > Southern
                                      > > > > > > > > > Ocean's
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > added
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > input of a current that moves so strongly
                                      > > from
                                      > > > > west
                                      > > > > > > to
                                      > > > > > > > > east
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > around
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Antarctica. A warmer inducter of the
                                      oceans
                                      > > > > inducts
                                      > > > > > > > > better,
                                      > > > > > > > > > > and
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > in
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this case, warmer for the northern
                                      > > hemisphere's
                                      > > > > > > oceans
                                      > > > > > > > > > means
                                      > > > > > > > > > > on
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > balance there is more induction for
                                      cirrus
                                      > > due
                                      > > > to
                                      > > > > > > > current
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > direction .
                                      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . .
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