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(Metalshapers): Planning for the future EVENTS

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  • msaforum@metalshapers.org
    Mike Graf ( mgraf ) has posted a new message titled Planning for the future EVENTS . Posted: Fri, Sept 1st, 2006 - 8:19AM mgraf One area that we have been
    Message 1 of 13 , Sep 1, 2006
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      Mike Graf (mgraf) has posted a new message titled "Planning for the future EVENTS".


      Posted: Fri, Sept 1st, 2006 - 8:19AM



      *


      mgraf


      One area that we have been covering with a LOT of individual effort has been that of fests of various sorts.
      tt's EMMR success is one of the latest examples. Our members have hosted , or participated in several events this year.

      We could , however, be doing much more as a group in this area.
      There has been some discussion off of this list among the moderators and various other members of MSA as to how this could be improved.

      One thing that has come up is, that as an organization, we have nothing in writing to help someone put on an event.
      There is a pretty long laundry list of things that someone would need to cover before hosting a fest. Tool lists, publicity,legal concerns,size, toilets, parking....

      There is going to be an effort to put together a group of MSA members to think these things through with an eye toward publishing on the MSA website a resource for those interested in putting together an event.

      The moderators will set up an off list forum for this group to work on, we will also take responsibility for putting together the final published form on the website. There is just much more experience in this area in the membership in general than there is among the moderators, so we'd like your help.

      If you have any experience in hosting metal events or event planning for groups of various sizes, please consider contributing to this effort.
      You needn't be a "metal god" of some sort to be of real help in this area. Planning for a BSA jamboree, or a church auction would also give you real world experience to share.

      If you would like to help out please respond to :

      mikegraf@...

      as well as this list.

      Mike Graf, moderator

      Reply View Thread




    • GHS
      Well , two folks have said that they would be willing to work on this project. I d like to see two or three more if I can get them. Many hands light work and
      Message 2 of 13 , Sep 3, 2006
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        Well , two folks have said that they would be willing to work on this project.
        I'd like to see two or three more if I can get them. Many hands light work and all that sort of thing.

        Maybe some of you who normally sit by and listen in have some experience to offer. It would be a great way to get involved it this community. Remember we are NOT looking for dictates as to how it HAS to be done. What is needed is a good set of guidelines as to HOW a successful event comes into being, and is carried to fruition..

        Mike Graf


        Mike Graf (mgraf) has posted a new message titled "Planning for the future EVENTS".


        Posted: Fri, Sept 1st, 2006 - 8:19AM






        mgraf


        One area that we have been covering with a LOT of individual effort has been that of fests of various sorts.
        tt's EMMR success is one of the latest examples. Our members have hosted , or participated in several events this year.

        We could , however, be doing much more as a group in this area.
        There has been some discussion off of this list among the moderators and various other members of MSA as to how this could be improved.

        One thing that has come up is, that as an organization, we have nothing in writing to help someone put on an event.
        There is a pretty long laundry list of things that someone would need to cover before hosting a fest. Tool lists, publicity,legal concerns,size, toilets, parking....

        There is going to be an effort to put together a group of MSA members to think these things through with an eye toward publishing on the MSA website a resource for those interested in putting together an event.

        The moderators will set up an off list forum for this group to work on, we will also take responsibility for putting together the final published form on the website. There is just much more experience in this area in the membership in general than there is among the moderators, so we'd like your help.

        If you have any experience in hosting metal events or event planning for groups of various sizes, please consider contributing to this effort.
        You needn't be a "metal god" of some sort to be of real help in this area. Planning for a BSA jamboree, or a church auction would also give you real world experience to share.

        If you would like to help out please respond to :

        mikegraf@...

        as well as this list.

        Mike Graf, moderator

         
         



        -- 
        Please visit us at http://www.gaudeteforge.com/
      • Danny Pascoe
        Mike I have put on 7 events in the past & this year I cant in is just not in my finances. Even when people fork over a few $$ it just dosent cover all the
        Message 3 of 13 , Sep 3, 2006
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          Mike I have put on 7 events in the past & this year I cant in is just not in my finances. Even when people fork over a few $$ it just dosent cover all the expenses to do the event unless you get a large turn out & the attende's are willing to pay there fair share for the days or weekends expenses. There is food to consider, refrements, utinsels to eat on, metal to shape with welding supplys, tools the walk away or get broken. Then there is the person or two that figures he should not have to pay any expensis & just casualy forget to pay. Then there is the little things like the person putting on the event usualy ends up setting up every thing with out any help & cleans up after every one gose home. If this is what you do for a living you loose 2 or 3 days wages getting ready, hosting then picking up. If 20 people show up you are lucky if 4  people mention to the group that they had a good time or the promoter did a sucko job Now I will get off my soap box Dan Pascoe

          GHS <ghs@...> wrote:
          Well , two folks have said that they would be willing to work on this project.
          I'd like to see two or three more if I can get them. Many hands light work and all that sort of thing.

          Maybe some of you who normally sit by and listen in have some experience to offer. It would be a great way to get involved it this community. Remember we are NOT looking for dictates as to how it HAS to be done. What is needed is a good set of guidelines as to HOW a successful event comes into being, and is carried to fruition..

          Mike Graf


          Mike Graf (mgraf) has posted a new message titled "Planning for the future EVENTS".

          Posted: Fri, Sept 1st, 2006 - 8:19AM


          *


          mgraf


          One area that we have been covering with a LOT of individual effort has been that of fests of various sorts.
          tt's EMMR success is one of the latest examples. Our members have hosted , or participated in several events this year.

          We could , however, be doing much more as a group in this area.
          There has been some discussion off of this list among the moderators and various other members of MSA as to how this could be improved.

          One thing that has come up is, that as an organization, we have nothing in writing to help someone put on an event.
          There is a pretty long laundry list of things that someone would need to cover before hosting a fest. Tool lists, publicity,legal concerns,size, toilets, parking....

          There is going to be an effort to put together a group of MSA members to think these things through with an eye toward publishing on the MSA website a resource for those interested in putting together an event.

          The moderators will set up an off list forum for this group to work on, we will also take responsibility for putting together the final published form on the website. There is just much more experience in this area in the membership in general than there is among the moderators, so we'd like your help.

          If you have any experience in hosting metal events or event planning for groups of various sizes, please consider contributing to this effort.
          You needn't be a "metal god" of some sort to be of real help in this area. Planning for a BSA jamboree, or a church auction would also give you real world experience to share.

          If you would like to help out please respond to :

          mikegraf@metalshape rs.org

          as well as this list.

          Mike Graf, moderator

           
           
          Reply View Thread



          --   Please visit us at http://www.gaudetef orge.com/


          Do you Yahoo!?
          Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail.

        • GHS
          ... Dan, If I can sweet talk you into cybermeeting with a few other folks offlist, in an attempt to sort this type of thing out post me privately at.
          Message 4 of 13 , Sep 3, 2006
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            Danny Pascoe wrote:

            > Mike I have put on 7 events in the past & this year I cant in is just
            > not in my finances. Even when people fork over a few $$ it just

            Dan,
            If I can sweet talk you into cybermeeting with a few other folks
            offlist, in an attempt to sort this type of thing out post me privately at.

            mikegraf@...

            It sounds like you'd have some insights.

            Anyone else??

            Mike Graf



            --
            Please visit us at http://www.gaudeteforge.com/
          • oldgoaly
            -Dan, I hear you! Did you get the pullmax working??? tt
            Message 5 of 13 , Sep 3, 2006
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              -Dan,

              I hear you!

              Did you get the pullmax working???

              tt
            • Danny Pascoe
              TT its not dead yet I am going to call the guy at the electrical co on tuesday to see if he received the pictures i emailed & hope he has the reset breakers or
              Message 6 of 13 , Sep 3, 2006
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                TT its not dead yet I am going to call the guy at the electrical co on tuesday to see if he received the pictures i emailed & hope he has the reset breakers or what he might think is causing the problem. I agree I dont want to spend more $$ then I have to. If it is a simple fix of a couple of swithches then that is what I will do but if all fails I will go the fvd route Dan Pascoe www.creativebillet.com

                oldgoaly <oldgoaly@...> wrote:
                -Dan,

                I hear you!

                Did you get the pullmax working???

                tt



                All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

              • Gordon Bartlett
                I keep a Notebook on the shelf in the shop titled Big Country Airfest .It has 3 years of event notes along with this years HOG Rally info . It hard to tell
                Message 7 of 13 , Sep 3, 2006
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                  I keep a Notebook on the shelf in the shop titled "Big Country
                  Airfest " .It has 3 years of event notes along with this years HOG
                  Rally info .
                  It hard to tell how many sleepless nights i had before the first
                  Airfest ,with all the details , needs ,and what if"s keeping me
                  awake. It did pay off with a great event and it also generated many
                  questions ,Improvements and items not to do .I have continuely made
                  changes to our format at Airfest over the last 3 years that have
                  helped. But the goal at the end of the event always" What can i do
                  Better next year"
                  Largely i was alone in this process other than John Varnell to
                  bounce ideas off of, and Not having TC to discuss it with didn't
                  help .I believe the Event Comm. to be positive idea for MSA.
                  Now over the last three years most of the people that joined us had
                  some ideas for improvement ,comments on adding things, ETC.
                  So my point to my long winded story is -Everyone that has been to
                  a Fest or Gathering has something to say . You have ideas we would
                  like to hear them .This group is comprised of people with many
                  different backgrounds with one interest -Metal .Bringing your talent
                  to the Event Committes table will be appreciated .
                  One item i would like to add about the EMMR event and the effort
                  of it's people . One person has largely gone UNTHANKED for his
                  effort before the event ,his effort has been Large and personally
                  time consuming. Plus he most likely had TT bending his ear at times
                  >VBG< . That person is J. Clear , you'll agree that his effort
                  behind the the Buck project was great .
                  WE appreciate your Time and Effort ,Gordon Bartlett
                • oldgoaly
                  Gordon and the gang, J deserves the credit, he flew back from Germany just to attend! It would be nice if we had a few more showing support by building
                  Message 8 of 13 , Sep 3, 2006
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                    Gordon and the gang,

                    J deserves the credit, he flew back from Germany just to attend! It
                    would be nice if we had a few more showing support by building versions
                    of the EMMR car. J. now only has one good ear! Also Rick Mullin has
                    emailed me to let me know he wants to be a larger part of the next
                    event. Rick will bring an expertise that very few people in the world
                    have. We will work out the details and let you know.

                    Now the events that are being done have had a theme, EMMR-racing,
                    Air-Fest= airplanes. The biker events would be a good place to get
                    exposure, also antique auto swap meets. The only problem with these
                    the clubs putting on the events make there money by selling spaces. And we
                    really ain't there to sell. Some how we neeed a to cover costs?
                    Something the committee needs to look into.
                    Maybe art and craft fairs could be a source of new blood? Anybody
                    attend those and could give some idea on how they work? Almost forgot
                    the "hotrod" community has asked us to put on a demo at the EMMR at
                    thier spring event.
                    Lots of opprotunities out there!

                    tt
                  • Gordon Bartlett
                    ... versions ... Sounds like a Goal for next year ,Local formfests building parts for the Midget . AS far as Swap Meets for Demo s ,John Varnell did Pate swap
                    Message 9 of 13 , Sep 3, 2006
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                      >
                      > J deserves the credit, he flew back from Germany just to attend! It
                      > would be nice if we had a few more showing support by building
                      versions
                      > of the EMMR car.
                      Sounds like a Goal for next year ,Local formfests building parts for
                      the Midget .
                      AS far as Swap Meets for Demo's ,John Varnell did Pate swap Meet in
                      05 . He came away with the undertsanding it's not the right enviorment
                      for learning or showing techiques .Maybe he'll pop in here and explain
                      better than I .
                      GordonB
                    • Pat Groover
                      I guess it s my turn to add my two cents worth here. Last year was my 16th year as a vlounteer at Sun N Fun, though not all of them were in the metal shaping
                      Message 10 of 13 , Sep 4, 2006
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                        I guess it's my turn to add my two cents worth here.
                        Last year was my 16th year as a vlounteer at Sun N Fun, though not all of them were in the metal shaping area.  That is where I met Cal and Joyce Davis and fell in love with metalshaping.  I assisted him untill it became too much work away from his making a living.  Don't truly remember what year I took over doing it myself.  But it has been a few years.
                        This year I told s.n.f I would not return next year.   Yes, snf is only 12 miles from my house,  Yes I truly enjoyed seeing a visitors face when he saw the light.  Yes I have made friends from around the world from this demonstration.  Yes I had people come back each year and tell me they were able to do a project because of what they learned.  Yes there are a few dedicated volunteers that come back each year to help, without them it would be impossible.   
                        This is no ordinary show.  It is an event that would go on untill midnight if I would only keep the tent flaps open.  It is gratifying, exhausting event.  There are thousands of people camping on site all week long.  There is no lack of people to perform for.  This metalshaping tent is a very popular demonstration, it needs to continue.
                        Sun n Fun picks up the expence for the tent, we have all the voltage we need, we have pneumatics, we have a concrete floor to work on now, the volunteers get a free lunch, free camping, a free appreciation dinner with door prizes, and good friends to work with.  They don't even have to bring a tool of any type or a project to work on, I supplied everything.  and I do mean everything.  On an average snf event I put out about $500. just for the metal, 3003, 2024, 5052, copper, and a couple of gauges of steel.  SnF did reimburse me the past two years. 
                        There is no lack of hand tools or heavy equipment.  I normialy start setting up about two weeks before show time.  Carey Culpepper and Jim Ash have been a life saver in helping anywhere I need them.  Untill they started comming early to help set up, I loaded all of the tools myself.  Try putting a Pullmax P-5 and  Cal Davis power hammer on a trailer by yourself.  95% of all the tools in the tent come out of my shop.  We get emergency repair work from damaged asirplanes of the line, so I have everything needed for sheet metal work.
                        I'm not looking for a pat on the back here, I'm just saying there is a lot more to a metalshaping demonstration then just showing somebody how to make a tuck in metal.  It starts weeks, even months ahead of the event.  Dependable volunteers are an absolute must, it cannot happen without them.  For the past couple of years I have posted on the MSA site for help from the members.  Terry Cowin came one year and and had an absolute blast.  Randy ( of metal meet ) was an early volunteer and is a friend still.
                        The event is basicly free,. you only need to get here to enjoy it.  April in Florida should be a big attraction to someone still covered up with snow and bad weather.  Yet the number of volunteers get smaller each year.  I don't realy know how many people I will have untill they show up.  The set up and break down afterwards takes about three days each.  My shop is a wreck for at least a month after.  It is exhausting, I haven't seen the air show for at least 10 years, lunch is a sandwich while I talk because there is no one to take over to get a lunch.  There are activities after hours but we are too tired to attend.  
                        Maybe I'm just venting here, I hope not.    What I'm saying is every event, wherever it is, needs dedicated volunteers or it just will not go over. You can have every tool known to man sitting there just waiting to be used, but if no one walls up to the table and picks it up it is useless.  And that is where I am now.  For several days this year there were only three instructors, Carey, Jim, and myself, and I'm just plain tired.  I hope someone steps up and takes over this demostration,soon.
                        Pat Groover
                         _,___


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                      • oldgoaly
                        Pat AMEN! tt what does it take to get more people involved???
                        Message 11 of 13 , Sep 4, 2006
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                          Pat

                          AMEN!

                          tt
                          what does it take to get more people involved???
                        • Richard Ferguson
                          Pat makes an excellent point, that putting on a demonstration at a big event is a big commitment. In a way, you are putting on a show or a class, and you need
                          Message 12 of 13 , Sep 4, 2006
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                            Pat makes an excellent point, that putting on a demonstration at a
                            big event is a big commitment. In a way, you are putting on a show
                            or a class, and you need props, expendable materials for people to
                            use, assistants, etc. And if you are on duty more than a few hours a
                            day, especially if it is a multi-day event, it gets grueling and hard
                            on a person. The more hours involved, the more help would be needed.
                            I see that Sun and Fun lasts a whole week! I can imagine that I
                            would be fried at the end of the week.

                            When we talk about events, there are many different kinds of events.
                            The commitment involved in having a dozen people in your shop for a
                            day is still significant, but obviously less than a multi-day event
                            with thousands of people walking by your booth. It is yet another
                            kind of big project to rent a county fairgrounds and put on a
                            week-long get-together of metalheads.

                            It will be interesting, as we discuss planning for future events, to
                            see the differences and similarities in preparation for the various
                            kinds of metal events.

                            Richard



                            >
                            >Maybe I'm just venting here, I hope not. What I'm saying is every
                            >event, wherever it is, needs dedicated volunteers or it just will
                            >not go over. You can have every tool known to man sitting there just
                            >waiting to be used, but if no one walls up to the table and picks it
                            >up it is useless. And that is where I am now. For several days
                            >this year there were only three instructors, Carey, Jim, and myself,
                            >and I'm just plain tired. I hope someone steps up and takes over
                            >this demostration,soon.
                            >Pat Groover

                            --
                            http://www.fergusonsculpture.com
                            Sculptures in copper and other metals
                          • Kerry Pinkerton
                            I ve hosted two events at my shop and been heavily involved in hosting 5 of the internation big metalshaping events. In either case, it s a huge amount of
                            Message 13 of 13 , Sep 5, 2006
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                              I've hosted two events at my shop and been heavily involved in hosting 5 of the internation 'big' metalshaping events.  In either case, it's a huge amount of work.
                               
                              At my shop, I spend a week cleaning up, organizing, putting things up that I don't want anyone messing with etc.  After the event, it typically takes the better part of a week to get back to work and find all the stuff I put up. :)
                               
                              You have to address metal for use, project space and stuff to support it (sawhorses, welders, saw blades, files,welders, gas, consumables, work benches, air lines, power). 
                               
                              In today's litigious society, insurance is a must, imo.  I have commercial liability insurance and also get everyone to sign a waiver event though it's useless.  Metalshaping is full of dangerous tools, sharp edges and top heavy stuff.  I try to discourage folks bringing their kids (younger than 14-15).  There is just too much opportunity for disaster.  Don't misunderstand me, kids are the future of the craft but in a group environment you can't watch them like they need watching...not only for their own protection but also for damage to your tools.  Pat Groover can tell you some horror stories about kids being dropped off at SunNFun for him to 'babysit'.  If you have a 'sponsoring' organization they will be named in any lawsuit along with the host.
                               
                              Bathroom facilities, porta-pottys or ???, showers, camping, fires, vendor support?
                               
                              For local meets we normally just pass the hat.  Folks kick in what they think it's worth.  I've attended about 15 metalshaping events and frequently (because I have a big mouth and am not shy) I'll be the one to stand up, thank the host, and initate the passing of the hat.  I've seen folks kick in $50 and folks drop in change.  Generally we get enough to pay for portapotty rental and drinks.
                               
                              On the big events we charge a nominal fee up front (currently $100) and that is for an hour or the whole 8 day event.  That covers costs for the things mentioned above because we're talking about a considerable number of attendees.  We rented circus tents for a couple years but were very lucky when one blew down and no one was hurt.  Now we're at a county fairground that costs less than the tent and has indoor plumbing, showers, power, concrete floors, etc.  They required we be a 'true' non-profit corporation with insurance, etc.
                               
                              Pat and Dan both described the level of effort and also the thanklessness of the effort.  Terry Thorne can probably relate.  People show up expecting things...everything set up, attention to THEIR questions, etc.  Helpers are few and far between but turn into some of your best lifelong friends.
                               
                              If it's not a labor of love, you're going to be pretty discouraged when it's over.  If it is, you'll probably be exhausted but happy.
                               
                              Kerry Pinkerton
                              Imperial Wheeling Machines, inc.
                               
                               
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: oldgoaly
                              Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 10:42 PM
                              Subject: [metalshapers] Re: (Metalshapers): Planning for the future EVENTS

                              Pat

                              AMEN!

                              tt
                              what does it take to get more people involved???

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