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'I am' is True, all else is Inference

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  • cornelius
    From I am That Maharaj: The perceiver of the world, is he prior to the world, or does he come into being along with the world? Q: What a strange question!
    Message 1 of 5 , Jul 4, 2003
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      From "I am That"

      Maharaj: The perceiver of the world, is he prior to the world, or
      does he come into being along with the world?

      Q: What a strange question! Why do you ask such questions?

      M: Unless you know the correct answer, you will not find peace.
    • medit8ionsociety
      The sense of I is not the same as sensing I Am Here s Swami Sivananda: Experience is never possible without consciousness. Anything that is eternal must be
      Message 2 of 5 , Jul 5, 2003
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        The sense of "I" is not the same as sensing "I Am"
        Here's Swami Sivananda:

        Experience is never possible without consciousness. Anything that is
        eternal must be infinite and unlimited. Consciousness is unlimited;
        the consciousness of limitation shows that consciousness is greater
        than limitation. Perfection is the attainment of immortal life or
        pure consciousness. The enquiry of, "Who am I?" leads to self-
        realisation (Brahma-jnana). Divine wisdom can be attained only by
        those who are endowed with purity. Tear the veil. Realise the reality.

        Pain is the effect of not having what is wanted, or having what is
        not wanted. Brahman is secondless. There is no pain or want in
        Brahman. Therefore pain is impossible in the absolute. Contact is the
        mother of pain. The absolute can have no contacts and therefore no
        pain. Brahman is free from all wants and desires because it includes
        everything in itself. Therefore it is an embodiment of bliss.

        Bliss is not an attribute. It is the very constitutive essence of the
        self, or atman. As the self is absolute in nature, its bliss is also
        absolute. This is the same as Brahman.

        Annihilate the ego. Reach the goal here and now. Take the inner
        essence and attain perfection. Relax not the keen vigilance against
        your most subtle foes - egoism and desire. Where can you see the
        Lord? I found the Lord where 'I' did not exist.

        Where there is no sense of 'I', there is liberation. It is bondage to
        have the sense of 'I' and 'mine'. Identify with the all-pervading
        soul (atman). You will attain immortality. This is the secret of
        eternal life.

        With the growth and expansion of your inmost being, you attain
        greater perfection and fulfillment of yourself, and bliss is the
        result thereof. Purge yourself from self-seeking and egoism. Escape
        from space-time limitations. Lose all sense of separateness. Unite
        with Brahman or the absolute. The practice of the presence of God
        will cause the ego-veil to dissolve.

        Divine love will now manifest and eternal bliss will flow in. The
        Lord's grace is ever upon sincere, selfless souls.

        SIVANANDA DAILY READING FOR 5 JULY
        WAVES OF GANGA


        "cornelius" <d_agenda2000@y...> wrote:
        > From "I am That"
        >
        > Maharaj: The perceiver of the world, is he prior to the world, or
        > does he come into being along with the world?
        >
        > Q: What a strange question! Why do you ask such questions?
        >
        > M: Unless you know the correct answer, you will not find peace.
      • Gene Poole
        ... Above, remove the the for clearer meaning: consciousness of limitation shows that consciousness is greater than limitation. The consciousness of
        Message 3 of 5 , Jul 7, 2003
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          Hi Bob... a few remarks:

          >medit8ionsociety <no_reply@y...> wrote:

          > The sense of "I" is not the same as sensing "I Am"
          > Here's Swami Sivananda:
          >
          > Experience is never possible without consciousness. Anything that is
          > eternal must be infinite and unlimited. Consciousness is unlimited;
          > the consciousness of limitation shows that consciousness is greater
          > than limitation.

          Above, remove the 'the' for clearer meaning:

          "consciousness of limitation shows that consciousness is greater
          than limitation."

          'The consciousness of limitation' is itself, limited.

          One could also say: 'Perspective of the consciousness
          of limitation... ".

          The container of all containers is bigger than all
          containers, except itself. Kind of like those kitchen
          cannisters, eh?

          Now is your chance to 'graduate' from tiny container
          to BIG container! You are in yourself, right now!

          (But none of those statements is either clear, or true;
          it is merely 'cheerleading' the choir. One must already
          posses (at the least) opinions related to these issues,
          in order to 'assume' the truth of such short and
          presumptive statements. )

          > Perfection is the attainment of immortal life or
          > pure consciousness. The enquiry of, "Who am I?" leads to self-
          > realisation (Brahma-jnana). Divine wisdom can be attained only by
          > those who are endowed with purity. Tear the veil. Realise the reality.

          Yet another great and inadequate generalization!

          Like ACIM, the drama is the energy; and the 'helpings'
          of 'truth' are supposed to be deeply implanted, in the
          mind of the seeker. My suggestion: Forget the drama.

          > Pain is the effect of not having what is wanted, or having what is
          > not wanted. Brahman is secondless. There is no pain or want in
          > Brahman. Therefore pain is impossible in the absolute. Contact is the
          > mother of pain. The absolute can have no contacts and therefore no
          > pain. Brahman is free from all wants and desires because it includes
          > everything in itself. Therefore it is an embodiment of bliss.

          Well... DUH!

          > Bliss is not an attribute. It is the very constitutive essence of the
          > self, or atman. As the self is absolute in nature, its bliss is also
          > absolute. This is the same as Brahman.

          Sorry, dude. We are not 'enlightened' by reasoning alone;
          thus, your formulations of words simply fight for dominance
          in a ghetto of existing impressions. Ever see 'Fight Club'?

          > Annihilate the ego. Reach the goal here and now. Take the inner
          > essence and attain perfection. Relax not the keen vigilance against
          > your most subtle foes - egoism and desire. Where can you see the
          > Lord? I found the Lord where 'I' did not exist.

          "Annihilate the ego", eh? Ever try to strangle yourself
          with your own hands? Get real, dude!

          > Where there is no sense of 'I', there is liberation.

          More like, where there is no sense of 'you', O
          purveyor of puerile pap!

          > It is bondage to [there is no liberation without bondage!]
          > have the sense of 'I' and 'mine'. Identify with the all-pervading
          > soul (atman). You will attain immortality. This is the secret of
          > eternal life.

          Secret? Eternal life, is that there is no life!

          Ya can't lose what you don't have!

          > With the growth and expansion of your inmost being, you attain
          > greater perfection and fulfillment of yourself, and bliss is the
          > result thereof.

          Or, tumors.

          Now come on, guy... bliss as a result?
          How about what you said up above, eh?

          > Purge yourself from self-seeking and egoism. Escape
          > from space-time limitations. Lose all sense of separateness. Unite
          > with Brahman or the absolute.

          Yes, sir! Thou speakest, I obeyest!

          > The practice of the presence of God
          > will cause the ego-veil to dissolve.

          Whose... mine, or God's?

          I thought that God kinda enjoyed
          me-as-His-veil! I can tell, cause he
          is laughing it up, right now!

          > Divine love will now manifest and eternal bliss will flow in. The
          > Lord's grace is ever upon sincere, selfless souls.

          Sincere? Like, you mean, uh... without will?

          > SIVANANDA DAILY READING FOR 5 JULY
          > WAVES OF GANGA

          Waves of... Ganga? You mean... a 'sea of green'?

          Now, that I can go for!

          later, Bud...


          ==GP==



          > "cornelius" <d_agenda2000@y...> wrote:
          > > From "I am That"
          > >
          > > Maharaj: The perceiver of the world, is he prior to the world, or
          > > does he come into being along with the world?
          > >
          > > Q: What a strange question! Why do you ask such questions?
          > >
          > > M: Unless you know the correct answer, you will not find peace.
        • Nina
          ... Goodness, GP, you feeling spunky today or what? LOL! ... Waves of Ganga? Uh... what, exactly, should we prepare ourselves to expect in that situation?
          Message 4 of 5 , Jul 7, 2003
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            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Poole"
            <gene_poole@q...> wrote:
            > Hi Bob... a few remarks:

            Goodness, GP, you feeling spunky today or what? LOL!

            > > SIVANANDA DAILY READING FOR 5 JULY
            > > WAVES OF GANGA
            >
            > Waves of... Ganga?

            Waves of Ganga? Uh... what, exactly, should we prepare ourselves to
            expect in that situation? Perhaps I should don my aluminum foil
            beanie now, just in case I don't get any replies before Ganga begins
            to wave.

            Nina
          • medit8ionsociety
            And now for something completely different as St. Monty would say. Here s Maira Louisa s reaction and comments (as reposted from here on Guru-Satsang by
            Message 5 of 5 , Jul 7, 2003
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              "And now for something completely different" as St. Monty would
              say. Here's Maira Louisa's reaction and comments (as reposted
              from here on Guru-Satsang by G-ji)about the same Sivananda article:

              Dear Ganga,
              my respect about your consacration.

              This post is so wonderful. All the knowledge comprised in so few
              lines. I am grateful for having this to read. The simple reading and
              withdrawing of its meaning produces such a connection within
              consciousness that it is blissful. I will dare to comment it for it
              is so beautiful and i cannot stop doing it.

              --- In Guru_Satsang@yahoogroups.com, "G" <crystalkundalini@h...>
              wrote:

              > Subject: Re: 'I am' is True, all else is Inference
              >
              >
              > The sense of "I" is not the same as sensing "I Am"
              > Here's Swami Sivananda:
              >
              > Experience is never possible without consciousness.

              ****This is something so true that it is incredible that we aren't
              aware of it continuously.

              Anything
              > that is eternal must be infinite and unlimited. Consciousness is
              > unlimited; the consciousness of limitation shows that
              > consciousness is greater than limitation.

              ****What a simple statement and absolutely undeniable. Any person
              intelligent enough just have to read it once and cannot deny a simple
              word, for simple reason is the clue here.

              Perfection is the
              > attainment of immortal life or pure consciousness.

              ****This is something that produces so much fear. People fear the
              loss of personal life. And i understand it quite well by my own
              experience. This is why the glimpse of the preciousness of
              consciousness is what gives me enough strength to continue in giving
              up all the ideas of personal doership, even of a person existing. I
              cannot imagine how could i surrender entirely if i hadn't had this
              first experiential fussion in pure conciousness. Each day i
              understand more the words of Ramana: "Experience is said to be
              temporary or permanent. The first experience is temporary and by
              concentration it can become permanent. In the former the bondage is
              not completely destroyed; it remains subtle and it reasserts itself
              in due course. But in the latter it is destroyed root and branch,
              never to appear again." My comment here would be that even if the
              experience of bliss passes by in this first connection to pure
              consciousness, the truth is known at once and is impossible to
              forget. Even the experience is impossible to forget. But it is only a
              remembrance, not a living and continuous bliss. Not in my case at
              least.

              The enquiry
              > of, "Who am I?" leads to self-realisation (Brahma-jnana). Divine
              > wisdom can be attained only by those who are endowed with
              > purity. Tear the veil. Realise the reality.

              ****So near, so close, but the veil is also here, all the engagements
              of daily life that tend to make me forget momentarily.

              > Pain is the effect of not having what is wanted, or having what is
              > not wanted. Brahman is secondless. There is no pain or want in
              > Brahman. Therefore pain is impossible in the absolute. Contact
              > is the mother of pain. The absolute can have no contacts and
              > therefore no pain. Brahman is free from all wants and desires
              > because it includes everything in itself. Therefore it is an
              > embodiment of bliss.
              >
              > Bliss is not an attribute. It is the very constitutive essence of
              the
              > self, or atman. As the self is absolute in nature, its bliss is also
              > absolute. This is the same as Brahman.
              >
              > Annihilate the ego. Reach the goal here and now. Take the inner
              > essence and attain perfection. Relax not the keen vigilance
              > against your most subtle foes - egoism and desire. Where can
              > you see the Lord? I found the Lord where 'I' did not exist.

              ****This is so true. It is the truth. This is why all the atempts of
              the construed mind or ideas to obscure this unavoidable meaning are
              futile if i remain truthful and faithful upon that which i already
              know by experience and grace. It is hard........but this is the
              mind's opinion for its own protection and survival(jejejejeje).

              >
              > Where there is no sense of 'I', there is liberation.

              ****We tend to confuse it all. There is consciousness of experience
              as said in the first lines of this writing, but we imagine that there
              is an I that is conscious, and the reality is that consciousness is
              counscious of this I, that the I sense is a derivation, a consequence
              of consciousness itself. If not, how can we say that there is an "I"
              if there is not consciousness of it? (My reflections about the whole
              issue)


              It is bondage to
              > have the sense of 'I' and 'mine'. Identify with the all-pervading
              > soul (atman). You will attain immortality. This is the secret of
              > eternal life.

              ****What i din't understood for such a long time whenever i read this
              issue of immortality, is that there is no body attaining it, but that
              just the dissapearance of the sense of individuality is immortality
              itself.

              >
              > With the growth and expansion of your inmost being, you attain
              > greater perfection and fulfillment of yourself, and bliss is the
              > result thereof. Purge yourself from self-seeking and egoism.
              > Escape from space-time limitations. Lose all sense of
              > separateness. Unite with Brahman or the absolute. The practice
              > of the presence of God will cause the ego-veil to dissolve.

              ****This was a practice that we where so many times recommended to
              do. To be aware of the Presence.


              > Divine love will now manifest and eternal bliss will flow in. The
              > Lord's grace is ever upon sincere, selfless souls.
              >
              > SIVANANDA DAILY READING FOR 5 JULY
              > WAVES OF GANGA



              Beautiful post. Thank you.

              maria luisa

              "Gene Poole" <gene_poole@q...> wrote:
              > Hi Bob... a few remarks:
              >
              > >medit8ionsociety <no_reply@y...> wrote:
              >
              > > The sense of "I" is not the same as sensing "I Am"
              > > Here's Swami Sivananda:
              > >
              > > Experience is never possible without consciousness. Anything that is
              > > eternal must be infinite and unlimited. Consciousness is unlimited;
              > > the consciousness of limitation shows that consciousness is greater
              > > than limitation.
              >
              > Above, remove the 'the' for clearer meaning:
              >
              > "consciousness of limitation shows that consciousness is greater
              > than limitation."
              >
              > 'The consciousness of limitation' is itself, limited.
              >
              > One could also say: 'Perspective of the consciousness
              > of limitation... ".
              >
              > The container of all containers is bigger than all
              > containers, except itself. Kind of like those kitchen
              > cannisters, eh?
              >
              > Now is your chance to 'graduate' from tiny container
              > to BIG container! You are in yourself, right now!
              >
              > (But none of those statements is either clear, or true;
              > it is merely 'cheerleading' the choir. One must already
              > posses (at the least) opinions related to these issues,
              > in order to 'assume' the truth of such short and
              > presumptive statements. )
              >
              > > Perfection is the attainment of immortal life or
              > > pure consciousness. The enquiry of, "Who am I?" leads to self-
              > > realisation (Brahma-jnana). Divine wisdom can be attained only by
              > > those who are endowed with purity. Tear the veil. Realise the reality.
              >
              > Yet another great and inadequate generalization!
              >
              > Like ACIM, the drama is the energy; and the 'helpings'
              > of 'truth' are supposed to be deeply implanted, in the
              > mind of the seeker. My suggestion: Forget the drama.
              >
              > > Pain is the effect of not having what is wanted, or having what is
              > > not wanted. Brahman is secondless. There is no pain or want in
              > > Brahman. Therefore pain is impossible in the absolute. Contact is the
              > > mother of pain. The absolute can have no contacts and therefore no
              > > pain. Brahman is free from all wants and desires because it includes
              > > everything in itself. Therefore it is an embodiment of bliss.
              >
              > Well... DUH!
              >
              > > Bliss is not an attribute. It is the very constitutive essence of the
              > > self, or atman. As the self is absolute in nature, its bliss is also
              > > absolute. This is the same as Brahman.
              >
              > Sorry, dude. We are not 'enlightened' by reasoning alone;
              > thus, your formulations of words simply fight for dominance
              > in a ghetto of existing impressions. Ever see 'Fight Club'?
              >
              > > Annihilate the ego. Reach the goal here and now. Take the inner
              > > essence and attain perfection. Relax not the keen vigilance against
              > > your most subtle foes - egoism and desire. Where can you see the
              > > Lord? I found the Lord where 'I' did not exist.
              >
              > "Annihilate the ego", eh? Ever try to strangle yourself
              > with your own hands? Get real, dude!
              >
              > > Where there is no sense of 'I', there is liberation.
              >
              > More like, where there is no sense of 'you', O
              > purveyor of puerile pap!
              >
              > > It is bondage to [there is no liberation without bondage!]
              > > have the sense of 'I' and 'mine'. Identify with the all-pervading
              > > soul (atman). You will attain immortality. This is the secret of
              > > eternal life.
              >
              > Secret? Eternal life, is that there is no life!
              >
              > Ya can't lose what you don't have!
              >
              > > With the growth and expansion of your inmost being, you attain
              > > greater perfection and fulfillment of yourself, and bliss is the
              > > result thereof.
              >
              > Or, tumors.
              >
              > Now come on, guy... bliss as a result?
              > How about what you said up above, eh?
              >
              > > Purge yourself from self-seeking and egoism. Escape
              > > from space-time limitations. Lose all sense of separateness. Unite
              > > with Brahman or the absolute.
              >
              > Yes, sir! Thou speakest, I obeyest!
              >
              > > The practice of the presence of God
              > > will cause the ego-veil to dissolve.
              >
              > Whose... mine, or God's?
              >
              > I thought that God kinda enjoyed
              > me-as-His-veil! I can tell, cause he
              > is laughing it up, right now!
              >
              > > Divine love will now manifest and eternal bliss will flow in. The
              > > Lord's grace is ever upon sincere, selfless souls.
              >
              > Sincere? Like, you mean, uh... without will?
              >
              > > SIVANANDA DAILY READING FOR 5 JULY
              > > WAVES OF GANGA
              >
              > Waves of... Ganga? You mean... a 'sea of green'?
              >
              > Now, that I can go for!
              >
              > later, Bud...
              >
              >
              > ==GP==
              >
              >
              >
              > > "cornelius" <d_agenda2000@y...> wrote:
              > > > From "I am That"
              > > >
              > > > Maharaj: The perceiver of the world, is he prior to the world, or
              > > > does he come into being along with the world?
              > > >
              > > > Q: What a strange question! Why do you ask such questions?
              > > >
              > > > M: Unless you know the correct answer, you will not find peace.
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