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Re: Self-Improvement & Physical Practices

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  • asimpjoy
    ... **** T: Yes, limitations are inherent in physical, mental and emotional phenomena. ... But consciousness itself is not limited, it need not be so
    Message 1 of 53 , Jul 4, 2003
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      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "freyjartist"
      <freyjartist@a...> wrote:


      > F: Hi Tony,

      **** T: Hi! :-)

      > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, asimpjoy
      > <no_reply@y...> wrote:

      > > To the very ear of your ear,
      > > ... And to the Silence and
      > > Openness of the "Heart":


      > > ************************

      > > Physical practices have
      > > a limit, as do all self-
      > > improvement programs.


      > F: Oh, really?

      **** T: Yes, limitations are inherent
      in physical, mental and emotional phenomena.
      ... But consciousness itself is not limited,
      it need not be so restricted, must it?

      > > Controlling action with an
      > > agenda keeps one confined to
      > > a pattern, and caught in the
      > > conflict of overcoming.

      > So you're saying that all physical
      > practices and self-improvement
      > programs are necessarily motivated
      > by an agenda?

      **** T: There is a vast difference in
      the spontaneous creativity, which is an
      expression of selfless surrender from
      the "Heart", and the self-conscious effort
      of the mind to become something for the
      purpose of egotistical aggrandizement.

      > > There is the pleasure of achievement,
      > > and the pain of failure, both which
      > > results in a preoccupation with the "I",
      > > the "self" - the "me" and the "mine".

      > F: There is also the condition where
      > there is not difference between
      > "achieving" and "failing".
      > There is just the participating.
      > And all of it is seen in the same
      > light.

      **** T: In terms of self-conscious endeavor,
      there is no difference. If there is no inward
      entity struggling to reach a goal, then "participation"
      is selfless play and discovery - spontaneous creativity.

      > > In this way I am all the time
      > > self-consciously "becoming more
      > > or becoming less", as I measure,
      > > and try to control "my progress".

      > F: This is not a "given" when it comes
      > to physical pursuits, as you are
      > seem to imply.

      **** T: It is not "a given", but it is the norm.
      Is it possible to "participate" without thinking
      in terms of the "me" - in terms of a goal?
      Is there spontaneous creative play, which is not
      subject to the enforcement of some agenda, which
      is not attached to any outcome?
      Is there action that is not a self-conscious regiment
      contrived by some authority?

      > > So the sense of an egotistical
      > > self can become more solidified
      > > each time I try to improve myself
      > > with some daily agenda, and the
      > > more I enforce it, the more I loose
      > > the freedom of spontaneity.
      > >
      > > The mind does not know the way
      > > to the "Unknown", and that is
      > > why it is so essential to FEEL
      > > the spontaneity of the "Heart",
      > > and to let it dominate - to let
      > > it have duration, so that it can
      > > overcome all the ignorance and
      > > pettiness of the mind.
      > > ... Only then can there be "Freedom".
      > >
      > > Then Heart knows "The Way", but the
      > > mind does not. The mind can only
      > > accumulate negative or positive
      > > vanity - in its sense of achievement
      > > or failure, and in the sense of an
      > > entity becoming more or less,
      > > ... Because the mind does not have
      > > the power of "Being".
      > >
      > > Love,
      > > Tony



      > F: There is no difference between
      > heart and mind when they are
      > fused together into one Will.

      **** T: Is not "will" the solidification of desire,
      and is not "desire" a projection of the ego towards
      pleasure, or away from pain?

      > F: And *you* have nothing to do
      > with that happening or not happening.
      > Either you think someone separate (you)
      > is calling the shots, or not.

      **** T: No, "you" can actually watch to see
      if there is in fact "motive" - an egotistical
      center with a contrived plan, which is seeking
      a result, OR if there is not. It's not just a
      matter of "thinking" - it's a matter of "seeing"
      what is actually taking place.

      > F: When all activities are done
      > for completion only,
      > just because...

      **** T: Is there ever a final completion to action,
      and is it possible to act without motive - without
      any attachment to the outcome?

      > F: they are undertaken, just because the desire is there,
      > and for no other reason....

      **** T: What happens if when desire arises and prods,
      and there is no inclination to act on it? Desire is only
      sensation in the mind, as thought, with emotional content.
      Is there action that is not controlled by the impulses of
      thought and emotion, an action not born of desire?

      Is there a spontaneous and selfless action of the Heart,
      an action that has nothing to do with thought or emotion,
      but instead comes from the Pure Feeling of the Heart, of
      being in direct contact with the reality of what actuality is,
      ... And not just a lot of activity driven by the impulses
      of thought, emotion, desire and will.

      > F: they transpire only because the desire exists
      > and that is all...

      **** T: Is there an action that is not based on desire and will?
      Desire being the craving for what thought is projecting.

      > F: not to "get something" or "to self-improve"
      > but because if i am moved to do something,

      **** T: If you are moved, what is moving you?
      Is it the desires that are being projected by the mind,
      as sensation, in which one tries to fulfill one's self,
      OR is it the spontaneous compassion from being in direct
      contact with what is actually there - a selfless surrender?

      > F: there is no reason for the fulfillment of it to be justified,
      > rationalized, explained or fit into some idea
      > of What is supposed to happen from this?

      **** T: No there need not be any reason - no concept, no idea,
      no agenda, no goal, because the act of compassion is itself
      complete - it has no desire to acquire or achieve anything. It
      only gives of itself, without any attachment to the outcome.

      > F: Of course there may be side effects,

      **** T: The side-effects of desire and attachment
      is suffering.

      > F: and those are meant to happen
      > exactly as they do, and one may notice
      > and observe them.

      **** T: Suffering is the results of one's attachment
      to various desires, and when desire persists there is no
      no freedom or joy - only pleasure and pain and struggle
      and sorrow. Peace comes when there is the ending of desire.

      > F: And certainly
      > some 'conditions' are more desirable
      > than others. But that is part of
      > all that is happening, as well.

      **** T: Conditions require surrender - not
      desire. Surrendering to whatever may come,
      without the resistance of desire and will.
      Only then can there be a compassionate response
      to a challenge - the selfless response, which is
      always adequate and complete in itself.

      > F: An impulse may arise to do something....
      > and then in the next instant another impulse
      > may arise not to do that thing...so you
      > may not do it, but then again, you might,
      > if another impulse comes up to do that thing...

      **** T: The impulses of thought and emotion are
      altogether different from the spontaneous action
      of the Heart. Simply to remain a puppet of the impulsive
      and whimsical nature of the ego, is to be forever lost in
      the insatiable desires of the mind.
      ... In that there is no end to suffering.

      > F: and it's all.... just..... happening.

      **** T: What IS actually happening beyond the impulses
      of desire that are being continually projected by the mind?
      What happens when thought and desire, with all of it cravings
      and impulses come to rest in the Heart,
      ... And there is Silence???

      > F: The unification of mind and heart into
      > One Will is not of your doing either.

      **** T: The egotistical self, with its desires and impulses
      can only circle in frustration, stirring up more and more
      misery for itself and others, but I wonder if it can ever
      surrender and be no more?
      ... What then takes place?

      Love,
      Tony

      > Freyja
    • texasbg2000
      ... Hi Dan: Always good to hear from you. If you decide to run for prez I will vote for you. Love Bobby G.
      Message 53 of 53 , Jul 15, 2003
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        >
        > You're welcome, and glad for the chuckle, Bobby.
        >
        > And yes, we must always keep in mind the
        > unrembemberable.
        >
        > Love,
        > Dan

        Hi Dan:

        Always good to hear from you. If you decide to run for prez I will
        vote for you.

        Love
        Bobby G.
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