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Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: shabd Yoga /ganga

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  • Harvey Schneider
    ... From: satkartar7 To: Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2003 3:39 PM Subject: [Meditation Society
    Message 1 of 16 , Jun 28, 2003
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      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "satkartar7" <mi_nok@...>
      To: <meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2003 3:39 PM
      Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: shabd Yoga /ganga


      > > > Hi G[angaji] and Satkatar,
      > > > As an old intiate of Kirpal Singh who wrote the book
      > > > "Naam or Word" which was quoted from, I am a little
      > > > ashamed of not knowing more about this teaching from
      > > > inner experience. But perhaps I can clarify the theory a
      > > > bit.
      > > > Kirpal taught that the Source was all pervasive but could
      > > > only be completed surrendered to or merged in by tracing
      > > > the primordial creative force of the universe from its lowest
      > > > links ringing within us (think tinnitis) through its intermediate
      > > > ranges in the inner planes to its origin in the Source. This
      > > > process is in some ways similar to Ramana's urging of
      > > > seekers to go within and trace the "I" to its origin. Of
      > > > course Ramana didn't speak of the sound current and it's
      > > > not at all clear to me how the two teachings actually
      > > > compare in their details.
      > > > While it is clear that many recognized mystics have
      > > > experienced and celebrated the glories of the the "naam"
      > > > using various words for it as clearly shown in the book
      > > > cited), Kirpal (and his school) have interpreted many
      > > > Biblical passages (like the opening of Saint John's gospel
      > > > where he refers to the Word or Logos) as referring to the
      > > > same inner sound current. Historians don't have records
      > > > to confirm these interpretations and they sometimes may
      > > > sound a bit forced.
      > > > Nevertheless, Sant Mat (The Path of the Masters) appears
      > > > to me to be an authentic path of exploration of the inner
      > > > reality of our being.
      > > > Harvey
      > >
      > >
      > > G: indeed any seen - heard - or energy is still within the realm of
      > > manifest although varying degrees of subtle....... but they while
      > > part of the Whole are still in a divisionary measure...... one must
      > > go beyond them and surrender to the Source from which they
      > > come ...... the light that is beyond all lights....... the unknowing
      > > which is beyond all knowledge .... That which is beyond all
      > > truths......
      > >
      > > shanti om
      >
      >
      > go behind the energy
      >
      > oh!
      >
      > words! ya di ya da bla bla
      >
      > not possible!!!
      >
      > when you die
      >
      > peace

      Hi G[angaji] and Satkartar,

      If Kirpal and his Sant Mat school are correct, the Naam or
      Shabd, if followed through the increasingly subtle regions does
      lead the practioner to the Nameless Source beyond all
      manifestation. Or, in G's description, to the light which is
      beyond all lights. That's the theory as I understand it anyway.
      My own experience is not worth mentioning, but there is an
      impressive pantheon of respected mystics who have testified
      on its behalf.

      In his book "Crown of Life" Kirpal pointed to the advaita
      philosophy of Shankara as the ultimate in philosophy, but said
      that understanding this philosophy was just a first step and that
      a world of practical experience was needed to fully realize its
      implications. This disticnction between theory and practice
      reminds me of the division between those who feel that advaita
      is accomplished through understanding and those who talk
      about the process of going within in the pursuit of self inquiry.

      While Kirpal does mention Shankara in "Crown of Life", I don't think
      he says much about Ramana. I have not yet been able to figure out
      the significance of the differences between the Ramana and Kirpal
      approaches. Any help in this regard would be appreciated.
      Harvey
    • satkartar7
      Hi G[angaji] and Satkatar, ... the difference is only in the flavor, Harvey, I think All true paths lead to the same state Ramana s realization of the the
      Message 2 of 16 , Jun 28, 2003
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        Hi G[angaji] and Satkatar,
        > > > > As an old intiate of Kirpal Singh who wrote the book
        > > > > "Naam or Word" which was quoted from, I am a little
        > > > > ashamed of not knowing more about this teaching from
        > > > > inner experience. But perhaps I can clarify the theory a
        > > > > bit.
        > > > > Kirpal taught that the Source was all pervasive but could
        > > > > only be completed surrendered to or merged in by tracing
        > > > > the primordial creative force of the universe from its lowest
        > > > > links ringing within us (think tinnitis) through its intermediate
        > > > > ranges in the inner planes to its origin in the Source. This
        > > > > process is in some ways similar to Ramana's urging of
        > > > > seekers to go within and trace the "I" to its origin. Of
        > > > > course Ramana didn't speak of the sound current and it's
        > > > > not at all clear to me how the two teachings actually
        > > > > compare in their details.
        > > > > While it is clear that many recognized mystics have
        > > > > experienced and celebrated the glories of the the "naam"
        > > > > using various words for it as clearly shown in the book
        > > > > cited), Kirpal (and his school) have interpreted many
        > > > > Biblical passages (like the opening of Saint John's gospel
        > > > > where he refers to the Word or Logos) as referring to the
        > > > > same inner sound current. Historians don't have records
        > > > > to confirm these interpretations and they sometimes may
        > > > > sound a bit forced.
        > > > > Nevertheless, Sant Mat (The Path of the Masters) appears
        > > > > to me to be an authentic path of exploration of the inner
        > > > > reality of our being.
        > > > > Harvey
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > G: indeed any seen - heard - or energy is still within the realm of
        > > > manifest although varying degrees of subtle....... but they while
        > > > part of the Whole are still in a divisionary measure...... one must
        > > > go beyond them and surrender to the Source from which they
        > > > come ...... the light that is beyond all lights....... the unknowing
        > > > which is beyond all knowledge .... That which is beyond all
        > > > truths......
        > > >
        > > > shanti om
        > >
        > >
        > > go behind the energy
        > >
        > > oh!
        > >
        > > words! ya di ya da bla bla
        > >
        > > not possible!!!
        > >
        > > when you die
        > >
        > > peace
        >
        > Hi G[angaji] and Satkartar,
        >
        > If Kirpal and his Sant Mat school are correct, the Naam or
        > Shabd, if followed through the increasingly subtle regions does
        > lead the practioner to the Nameless Source beyond all
        > manifestation. Or, in G's description, to the light which is
        > beyond all lights. That's the theory as I understand it anyway.
        > My own experience is not worth mentioning, but there is an
        > impressive pantheon of respected mystics who have testified
        > on its behalf.
        >
        > In his book "Crown of Life" Kirpal pointed to the advaita
        > philosophy of Shankara as the ultimate in philosophy, but said
        > that understanding this philosophy was just a first step and that
        > a world of practical experience was needed to fully realize its
        > implications. This disticnction between theory and practice
        > reminds me of the division between those who feel that advaita
        > is accomplished through understanding and those who talk
        > about the process of going within in the pursuit of self inquiry.
        >
        > While Kirpal does mention Shankara in "Crown of Life", I don't think
        > he says much about Ramana. I have not yet been able to figure out
        > the significance of the differences between the Ramana and Kirpal
        > approaches. Any help in this regard would be appreciated.
        > Harvey



        the difference is only in the flavor,
        Harvey, I think

        All true paths lead to the same 'state'

        Ramana's realization of the the Self
        is focusing more on the UNITY of
        Brahman

        Sant Mat; the sufi way is more like a
        medieval God-intoxicated 'state' [Rumi]

        Nisargadatta is like pristine *Awareness*
        focusing on keeping aware and nothing
        else

        I started with Zen through Kundalini
        Yoga and than Shabd Yoga
        and ended with Nisargadatta I see
        nothing beyond

        ALL PATH ARE THE SAME

        please see my comparisons and if you
        feel like it, post your feedback

        <http://santmat-meditation.net/iam/>

        Love, Karta

        ps: did you know that Yogi Bhajan was
        with Kirpal Singh on stage at the World
        Unification Conference? his voice
        puts me into nirvana still

        I did participate many Bhandaras for
        his death celebration; he is loved
        deeply in India

        == "Self" = Consciousness = God =
        Awareness = Life ==
      • devianandi
        ... intermediate ... realm of ... while ... must ... unknowing ... devi: is possible according to meher baba there are 4 types of mukti or moksha 1.ordinary
        Message 3 of 16 , Jun 28, 2003
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          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "satkartar7"
          <mi_nok@y...> wrote:
          > > > Hi G[angaji] and Satkatar,
          > > > As an old intiate of Kirpal Singh who wrote the book
          > > > "Naam or Word" which was quoted from, I am a little
          > > > ashamed of not knowing more about this teaching from
          > > > inner experience. But perhaps I can clarify the theory a
          > > > bit.
          > > > Kirpal taught that the Source was all pervasive but could
          > > > only be completed surrendered to or merged in by tracing
          > > > the primordial creative force of the universe from its lowest
          > > > links ringing within us (think tinnitis) through its
          intermediate
          > > > ranges in the inner planes to its origin in the Source. This
          > > > process is in some ways similar to Ramana's urging of
          > > > seekers to go within and trace the "I" to its origin. Of
          > > > course Ramana didn't speak of the sound current and it's
          > > > not at all clear to me how the two teachings actually
          > > > compare in their details.
          > > > While it is clear that many recognized mystics have
          > > > experienced and celebrated the glories of the the "naam"
          > > > using various words for it as clearly shown in the book
          > > > cited), Kirpal (and his school) have interpreted many
          > > > Biblical passages (like the opening of Saint John's gospel
          > > > where he refers to the Word or Logos) as referring to the
          > > > same inner sound current. Historians don't have records
          > > > to confirm these interpretations and they sometimes may
          > > > sound a bit forced.
          > > > Nevertheless, Sant Mat (The Path of the Masters) appears
          > > > to me to be an authentic path of exploration of the inner
          > > > reality of our being.
          > > > Harvey
          > >
          > >
          > > G: indeed any seen - heard - or energy is still within the
          realm of
          > > manifest although varying degrees of subtle....... but they
          while
          > > part of the Whole are still in a divisionary measure...... one
          must
          > > go beyond them and surrender to the Source from which they
          > > come ...... the light that is beyond all lights....... the
          unknowing
          > > which is beyond all knowledge .... That which is beyond all
          > > truths......
          > >
          > > shanti om
          >
          >
          > go behind the energy
          >
          > oh!
          >
          > words! ya di ya da bla bla
          >
          > not possible!!!
          >
          > when you die
          >
          > peace

          devi: is possible


          according to meher baba there are 4 types of mukti or moksha

          1.ordinary mukti is achieved only after death
          2. videh-mukti retain the body but are not conscious of creation or
          the body
          3.jivan-mukti is liberated and enjoys sat-chit ananda, sometimes *i
          am god* expereince..along with the three speres of creation but a
          jivan-mukta has no duty to creation
          4. param-mukti is know as the Perfect Master or Sat-Guru and comes
          back to normal consciousness after God-realziaiton
        • G
          ... intermediate ... realm of ... while ... must ... unknowing ... G: This is What Realization is the Death before death..... it IS possible ...... the
          Message 4 of 16 , Jun 28, 2003
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            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
            "satkartar7" <mi_nok@y...> wrote:
            > > > Hi G[angaji] and Satkatar,
            > > > As an old intiate of Kirpal Singh who wrote the book
            > > > "Naam or Word" which was quoted from, I am a little
            > > > ashamed of not knowing more about this teaching from
            > > > inner experience. But perhaps I can clarify the theory a
            > > > bit.
            > > > Kirpal taught that the Source was all pervasive but could
            > > > only be completed surrendered to or merged in by tracing
            > > > the primordial creative force of the universe from its lowest
            > > > links ringing within us (think tinnitis) through its
            intermediate
            > > > ranges in the inner planes to its origin in the Source. This
            > > > process is in some ways similar to Ramana's urging of
            > > > seekers to go within and trace the "I" to its origin. Of
            > > > course Ramana didn't speak of the sound current and it's
            > > > not at all clear to me how the two teachings actually
            > > > compare in their details.
            > > > While it is clear that many recognized mystics have
            > > > experienced and celebrated the glories of the the "naam"
            > > > using various words for it as clearly shown in the book
            > > > cited), Kirpal (and his school) have interpreted many
            > > > Biblical passages (like the opening of Saint John's gospel
            > > > where he refers to the Word or Logos) as referring to the
            > > > same inner sound current. Historians don't have records
            > > > to confirm these interpretations and they sometimes may
            > > > sound a bit forced.
            > > > Nevertheless, Sant Mat (The Path of the Masters) appears
            > > > to me to be an authentic path of exploration of the inner
            > > > reality of our being.
            > > > Harvey
            > >
            > >
            > > G: indeed any seen - heard - or energy is still within the
            realm of
            > > manifest although varying degrees of subtle....... but they
            while
            > > part of the Whole are still in a divisionary measure...... one
            must
            > > go beyond them and surrender to the Source from which they
            > > come ...... the light that is beyond all lights....... the
            unknowing
            > > which is beyond all knowledge .... That which is beyond all
            > > truths......
            > >
            > > shanti om
            >
            >
            > go behind the energy
            >
            > oh!
            >
            > words! ya di ya da bla bla
            >
            > not possible!!!
            >
            > when you die


            G: This is What Realization is the Death before death.....

            it IS possible ...... the fact that you don't know that show that
            you are still a seeker and not resting within the Realization that
            you claim........
          • G
            ... G: i am speaking of the Absolute not astral realms or movie fantasy.......
            Message 5 of 16 , Jun 28, 2003
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              --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Jason
              Fishman <munkiman4u@y...> wrote:
              > G: indeed any seen - heard - or energy is still
              > within the realm of
              > manifest although varying degrees of subtle.......
              > but they while
              > part of the Whole are still in a divisionary
              > measure...... one must
              > go beyond them and surrender to the Source from which
              > they
              > come ...... the light that is beyond all
              > lights....... the unknowing
              > which is beyond all knowledge .... That which is
              > beyond all
              > truths......
              >
              > shanti om
              >
              > ------
              > Lots of definable things not seen or heard. All
              > emotions are unseen and unheard. I really think you've
              > lost it, they're folks like you on ward 26!
              >
              > The beyond, the beyond, which is beyond all beyonds,
              > isn't beyond anything, not even in silence.
              >
              > Looking at all that is, nothing that isn't uncovered
              > is beyond the scope and there are plenty of nothings
              > yet to be uncovered, within it.
              >
              > The mind can move one beyond the beyond that is beyond
              > all beyonds. Yet no one is comming back with anything
              > that is beyond. Source is source is source is source,
              > that isn't comming from or going to anywhere. A mind
              > does trap one there and it isn't above or below or
              > through anything.
              >
              > Funny how the movie the matrix has people twisting and
              > twirling about how the is that is is in the mind and
              > if you can just make the mind do anything then in the
              > physical one becomes a super-power-hero, as if. Lot's
              > of blithering folks thinking they're chickens or
              > super-heros in the looney bin :)
              >
              > The body is physical, the mind is beyond (so to
              > speak), the soul is all unity that feeds the mind/body
              > unit without form, without tangable dependence on any
              > other. Why one cannot be satisfied with the who they
              > are is what all the hoopla is about. Seems there are
              > alot of overweight, unattractive (by the standards of
              > the day) that are looking for the beyond that is
              > beyond. Ahh to get the respect and love I deserve, as
              > if. :)
              >
              > Peace and Love



              G: i am speaking of the Absolute not astral realms or movie
              fantasy.......
            • G
              ... /ganga ... lowest ... intermediate ... This ... gospel ... appears ... realm of ... while ... must ... they ... unknowing ... does ... that ... think ...
              Message 6 of 16 , Jun 28, 2003
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                --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Harvey
                Schneider" <haarvi1@n...> wrote:
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: "satkartar7" <mi_nok@y...>
                > To: <meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2003 3:39 PM
                > Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: shabd Yoga
                /ganga
                >
                >
                > > > > Hi G[angaji] and Satkatar,
                > > > > As an old intiate of Kirpal Singh who wrote the book
                > > > > "Naam or Word" which was quoted from, I am a little
                > > > > ashamed of not knowing more about this teaching from
                > > > > inner experience. But perhaps I can clarify the theory a
                > > > > bit.
                > > > > Kirpal taught that the Source was all pervasive but could
                > > > > only be completed surrendered to or merged in by tracing
                > > > > the primordial creative force of the universe from its
                lowest
                > > > > links ringing within us (think tinnitis) through its
                intermediate
                > > > > ranges in the inner planes to its origin in the Source.
                This
                > > > > process is in some ways similar to Ramana's urging of
                > > > > seekers to go within and trace the "I" to its origin. Of
                > > > > course Ramana didn't speak of the sound current and it's
                > > > > not at all clear to me how the two teachings actually
                > > > > compare in their details.
                > > > > While it is clear that many recognized mystics have
                > > > > experienced and celebrated the glories of the the "naam"
                > > > > using various words for it as clearly shown in the book
                > > > > cited), Kirpal (and his school) have interpreted many
                > > > > Biblical passages (like the opening of Saint John's
                gospel
                > > > > where he refers to the Word or Logos) as referring to the
                > > > > same inner sound current. Historians don't have records
                > > > > to confirm these interpretations and they sometimes may
                > > > > sound a bit forced.
                > > > > Nevertheless, Sant Mat (The Path of the Masters)
                appears
                > > > > to me to be an authentic path of exploration of the inner
                > > > > reality of our being.
                > > > > Harvey
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > G: indeed any seen - heard - or energy is still within the
                realm of
                > > > manifest although varying degrees of subtle....... but they
                while
                > > > part of the Whole are still in a divisionary measure...... one
                must
                > > > go beyond them and surrender to the Source from which
                they
                > > > come ...... the light that is beyond all lights....... the
                unknowing
                > > > which is beyond all knowledge .... That which is beyond all
                > > > truths......
                > > >
                > > > shanti om
                > >
                > >
                > > go behind the energy
                > >
                > > oh!
                > >
                > > words! ya di ya da bla bla
                > >
                > > not possible!!!
                > >
                > > when you die
                > >
                > > peace
                >
                > Hi G[angaji] and Satkartar,
                >
                > If Kirpal and his Sant Mat school are correct, the Naam or
                > Shabd, if followed through the increasingly subtle regions
                does
                > lead the practioner to the Nameless Source beyond all
                > manifestation. Or, in G's description, to the light which is
                > beyond all lights. That's the theory as I understand it anyway.
                > My own experience is not worth mentioning, but there is an
                > impressive pantheon of respected mystics who have testified
                > on its behalf.
                >
                > In his book "Crown of Life" Kirpal pointed to the advaita
                > philosophy of Shankara as the ultimate in philosophy, but said
                > that understanding this philosophy was just a first step and
                that
                > a world of practical experience was needed to fully realize its
                > implications. This disticnction between theory and practice
                > reminds me of the division between those who feel that advaita
                > is accomplished through understanding and those who talk
                > about the process of going within in the pursuit of self inquiry.
                >
                > While Kirpal does mention Shankara in "Crown of Life", I don't
                think
                > he says much about Ramana. I have not yet been able to
                figure out
                > the significance of the differences between the Ramana and
                Kirpal
                > approaches. Any help in this regard would be appreciated.
                > Harvey


                G: Ramana does not advocate sound and light because they
                are still within phenomena...... he advocates Self Enquiry
                because it goes to the heart of identity and cuts the roots so that
                when Nirvikalpa Samdhi comes it will bring with it the lasting
                Sahaja Samadhi ....... if doing a yoga practice and one happens
                to enter a Nirvikalpa State and the roots of identity are not cut
                then once again the mind chatter may begin and the conceptual
                identity may then again arise..........
              • Jason Fishman
                ... Yes, as was I. Peace and Love __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com
                Message 7 of 16 , Jun 29, 2003
                • 0 Attachment
                  --- G <crystalkundalini@...> wrote:
                  > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                  > Jason
                  > Fishman <munkiman4u@y...> wrote:
                  > > G: indeed any seen - heard - or energy is still
                  > > within the realm of
                  > > manifest although varying degrees of subtle.......
                  >
                  > > but they while
                  > > part of the Whole are still in a divisionary
                  > > measure...... one must
                  > > go beyond them and surrender to the Source from
                  > which
                  > > they
                  > > come ...... the light that is beyond all
                  > > lights....... the unknowing
                  > > which is beyond all knowledge .... That which is
                  > > beyond all
                  > > truths......
                  > >
                  > > shanti om
                  > >
                  > > ------
                  > > Lots of definable things not seen or heard. All
                  > > emotions are unseen and unheard. I really think
                  > you've
                  > > lost it, they're folks like you on ward 26!
                  > >
                  > > The beyond, the beyond, which is beyond all
                  > beyonds,
                  > > isn't beyond anything, not even in silence.
                  > >
                  > > Looking at all that is, nothing that isn't
                  > uncovered
                  > > is beyond the scope and there are plenty of
                  > nothings
                  > > yet to be uncovered, within it.
                  > >
                  > > The mind can move one beyond the beyond that is
                  > beyond
                  > > all beyonds. Yet no one is comming back with
                  > anything
                  > > that is beyond. Source is source is source is
                  > source,
                  > > that isn't comming from or going to anywhere. A
                  > mind
                  > > does trap one there and it isn't above or below or
                  > > through anything.
                  > >
                  > > Funny how the movie the matrix has people twisting
                  > and
                  > > twirling about how the is that is is in the mind
                  > and
                  > > if you can just make the mind do anything then in
                  > the
                  > > physical one becomes a super-power-hero, as if.
                  > Lot's
                  > > of blithering folks thinking they're chickens or
                  > > super-heros in the looney bin :)
                  > >
                  > > The body is physical, the mind is beyond (so to
                  > > speak), the soul is all unity that feeds the
                  > mind/body
                  > > unit without form, without tangable dependence on
                  > any
                  > > other. Why one cannot be satisfied with the who
                  > they
                  > > are is what all the hoopla is about. Seems there
                  > are
                  > > alot of overweight, unattractive (by the standards
                  > of
                  > > the day) that are looking for the beyond that is
                  > > beyond. Ahh to get the respect and love I deserve,
                  > as
                  > > if. :)
                  > >
                  > > Peace and Love
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > G: i am speaking of the Absolute not astral
                  > realms or movie
                  > fantasy.......

                  Yes, as was I.

                  Peace and Love


                  __________________________________
                  Do you Yahoo!?
                  SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
                  http://sbc.yahoo.com
                • satkartar7
                  ... Die daily is the name of game in sanmat meditation, the reason YOU don t know this is beause YOU DON T KNOW!! if you are telling me that you are a guru and
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jun 29, 2003
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                    > > > G: indeed any seen - heard - or energy is still within the
                    > realm of
                    > > > manifest although varying degrees of subtle....... but they
                    > while
                    > > > part of the Whole are still in a divisionary measure...... one
                    > must
                    > > > go beyond them and surrender to the Source from which they
                    > > > come ...... the light that is beyond all lights....... the
                    > unknowing
                    > > > which is beyond all knowledge .... That which is beyond all
                    > > > truths......
                    > > >
                    > > > shanti om
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > go behind the energy
                    > >
                    > > oh!
                    > >
                    > > words! ya di ya da bla bla
                    > >
                    > > not possible!!!
                    > >
                    > > when you die
                    >
                    >
                    > G: This is What Realization is the Death before death.....
                    >
                    > it IS possible ...... the fact that you don't know that show that
                    > you are still a seeker and not resting within the Realization that
                    > you claim........


                    Die daily is the name of game in sanmat meditation, the reason YOU don't know
                    this is beause YOU DON'T KNOW!!


                    if you are telling me that you
                    are a guru and I am seeker than I say
                    go and fly a kyte you: are a megalomaniac clown

                    give up this sick guru-game we all have
                    your number down [exept Tony]

                    LOL

                    Karta
                  • devianandi
                    G: indeed any seen - heard - or energy is still within the realm of manifest although varying degrees of subtle....... but they while part of the Whole
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jun 29, 2003
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                      G: indeed any seen - heard - or energy is still within the
                      realm of manifest although varying degrees of subtle....... but
                      they while part of the Whole are still in a divisionary
                      measure...... one must go beyond them and surrender to the Source
                      from which they come ...... the light that is beyond all
                      lights....... the unknowing which is beyond all knowledge ....
                      That which is beyond all truths......
                      go behind the energy
                      karta:oh!words! ya di ya da bla bla not possible!!!when you die
                      G: This is What Realization is the Death before death.....
                      devi: gangak is writing the truth
                      gangak:it IS possible ...... the fact that you don't know that show
                      that you are still a seeker and not resting within the Realization
                      that you claim........
                      devi: she's right again, liberation + body = jivan-mukta
                      karta:Die daily is the name of game in sanmat meditation, the reason
                      YOU don't know this is beause YOU DON'T KNOW!!
                      devi: karta, gangak is realized, i can't believe you still are
                      challenging her,
                      karta:if you are telling me that you are a guru and I am seeker than
                      I say go and fly a kyte you: are a megalomaniac clown
                      devi: megalomanics aren't *realized*
                      karta; give up this sick guru-game we all have
                      > your number down [exept Tony]
                      devi: add me to the list of people who think that gangak is realized,
                      and karta, greg, bruce bob and jody all agree too. you and tony are
                      in the minority
                      seriously, karta, if you live around the block from that swamiji, why
                      don't you go see him...? talk to him about gangak, maybe he'll help
                      remove this big problem your having with her...your *name calling* is
                      probably extrememly annoying to most everyone in all the clubs around
                      here by the way...(example of name calling...sick...megalomanic clown)
                      again, she's realized, and she's very open about it, if you were
                      smart you might take advantage of it...
                    • satkartar7
                      ... and you are the other clown of enlightenment mania Karta
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jun 29, 2003
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                        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, devianandi <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                        > G: indeed any seen - heard - or energy is still within the
                        > realm of manifest although varying degrees of subtle....... but
                        > they while part of the Whole are still in a divisionary
                        > measure...... one must go beyond them and surrender to the Source
                        > from which they come ...... the light that is beyond all
                        > lights....... the unknowing which is beyond all knowledge ....
                        > That which is beyond all truths......
                        > go behind the energy
                        > karta:oh!words! ya di ya da bla bla not possible!!!when you die
                        > G: This is What Realization is the Death before death.....
                        > devi: gangak is writing the truth
                        > gangak:it IS possible ...... the fact that you don't know that show
                        > that you are still a seeker and not resting within the Realization
                        > that you claim........
                        > devi: she's right again, liberation + body = jivan-mukta
                        > karta:Die daily is the name of game in sanmat meditation, the reason
                        > YOU don't know this is beause YOU DON'T KNOW!!
                        > devi: karta, gangak is realized, i can't believe you still are
                        > challenging her,
                        > karta:if you are telling me that you are a guru and I am seeker than
                        > I say go and fly a kyte you: are a megalomaniac clown
                        > devi: megalomanics aren't *realized*
                        > karta; give up this sick guru-game we all have
                        > > your number down [exept Tony]
                        > devi: add me to the list of people who think that gangak is realized,
                        > and karta, greg, bruce bob and jody all agree too. you and tony are
                        > in the minority
                        > seriously, karta, if you live around the block from that swamiji, why
                        > don't you go see him...? talk to him about gangak, maybe he'll help
                        > remove this big problem your having with her...your *name calling* is
                        > probably extrememly annoying to most everyone in all the clubs around
                        > here by the way...(example of name calling...sick...megalomanic clown)
                        > again, she's realized, and she's very open about it, if you were
                        > smart you might take advantage of it...



                        and you are the other clown of 'enlightenment' mania

                        Karta
                      • devianandi
                        ... Source ... knowledge .... ... show ... Realization ... reason ... than ... realized, ... are ... why ... help ... calling* is ... around ... clown) ...
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jun 29, 2003
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                          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "satkartar7"
                          <mi_nok@y...> wrote:
                          > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, devianandi
                          <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                          > > G: indeed any seen - heard - or energy is still within the
                          > > realm of manifest although varying degrees of subtle....... but
                          > > they while part of the Whole are still in a divisionary
                          > > measure...... one must go beyond them and surrender to the
                          Source
                          > > from which they come ...... the light that is beyond all
                          > > lights....... the unknowing which is beyond all
                          knowledge ....
                          > > That which is beyond all truths......
                          > > go behind the energy
                          > > karta:oh!words! ya di ya da bla bla not possible!!!when you die
                          > > G: This is What Realization is the Death before death.....
                          > > devi: gangak is writing the truth
                          > > gangak:it IS possible ...... the fact that you don't know that
                          show
                          > > that you are still a seeker and not resting within the
                          Realization
                          > > that you claim........
                          > > devi: she's right again, liberation + body = jivan-mukta
                          > > karta:Die daily is the name of game in sanmat meditation, the
                          reason
                          > > YOU don't know this is beause YOU DON'T KNOW!!
                          > > devi: karta, gangak is realized, i can't believe you still are
                          > > challenging her,
                          > > karta:if you are telling me that you are a guru and I am seeker
                          than
                          > > I say go and fly a kyte you: are a megalomaniac clown
                          > > devi: megalomanics aren't *realized*
                          > > karta; give up this sick guru-game we all have
                          > > > your number down [exept Tony]
                          > > devi: add me to the list of people who think that gangak is
                          realized,
                          > > and karta, greg, bruce bob and jody all agree too. you and tony
                          are
                          > > in the minority
                          > > seriously, karta, if you live around the block from that swamiji,
                          why
                          > > don't you go see him...? talk to him about gangak, maybe he'll
                          help
                          > > remove this big problem your having with her...your *name
                          calling* is
                          > > probably extrememly annoying to most everyone in all the clubs
                          around
                          > > here by the way...(example of name calling...sick...megalomanic
                          clown)
                          > > again, she's realized, and she's very open about it, if you were
                          > > smart you might take advantage of it...
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          karta: and you are the other clown of 'enlightenment' mania
                          devi: i'm not reading you anymore, i don't think your name calling is
                          funny
                          >
                          >
                        • satkartar7
                          ... sorry Devi, when pressured I tell the truth as I see it. I have no idea why did Ganga tried to challenged me at what she failed misarably with her
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jun 29, 2003
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                            > > > G: indeed any seen - heard - or energy is still within the
                            > > > realm of manifest although varying degrees of subtle....... but
                            > > > they while part of the Whole are still in a divisionary
                            > > > measure...... one must go beyond them and surrender to the
                            > Source
                            > > > from which they come ...... the light that is beyond all
                            > > > lights....... the unknowing which is beyond all
                            > knowledge ....
                            > > > That which is beyond all truths......
                            > > > go behind the energy
                            > > > karta:oh!words! ya di ya da bla bla not possible!!!when you die
                            > > > G: This is What Realization is the Death before death.....
                            > > > devi: gangak is writing the truth
                            > > > gangak:it IS possible ...... the fact that you don't know that
                            > show
                            > > > that you are still a seeker and not resting within the
                            > Realization
                            > > > that you claim........
                            > > > devi: she's right again, liberation + body = jivan-mukta
                            > > > karta:Die daily is the name of game in sanmat meditation, the
                            > reason
                            > > > YOU don't know this is beause YOU DON'T KNOW!!
                            > > > devi: karta, gangak is realized, i can't believe you still are
                            > > > challenging her,
                            > > > karta:if you are telling me that you are a guru and I am seeker
                            > than
                            > > > I say go and fly a kyte you: are a megalomaniac clown
                            > > > devi: megalomanics aren't *realized*
                            > > > karta; give up this sick guru-game we all have
                            > > > > your number down [exept Tony]
                            > > > devi: add me to the list of people who think that gangak is
                            > realized,
                            > > > and karta, greg, bruce bob and jody all agree too. you and tony
                            > are
                            > > > in the minority
                            > > > seriously, karta, if you live around the block from that swamiji,
                            > why
                            > > > don't you go see him...? talk to him about gangak, maybe he'll
                            > help
                            > > > remove this big problem your having with her...your *name
                            > calling* is
                            > > > probably extrememly annoying to most everyone in all the clubs
                            > around
                            > > > here by the way...(example of name calling...sick...megalomanic
                            > clown)
                            > > > again, she's realized, and she's very open about it, if you were
                            > > > smart you might take advantage of it...
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > karta: and you are the other clown of 'enlightenment' mania
                            > devi: i'm not reading you anymore, i don't think your name calling is
                            > funny


                            sorry Devi, when pressured I tell the
                            truth as I see it. I have no idea why
                            did Ganga tried to challenged me
                            at what she failed misarably with her misundertandings and 'lack' and why you
                            always try to spank me and why did
                            you positioned yourself in disagreement
                            with me

                            REALITY CAN NOT BE MANIPULATED!! Devi

                            Ganga with her aura-pic and upperhand
                            stance sucks and from here you are
                            pathetic with your C&P enlightenment

                            I did not ask to be challenged but, when
                            I am; I tell what is on my mind

                            Karta

                            ps: while you are now into asskissing
                            Ganga why not ask her to be a member of
                            her club? there you can do it: that is
                            all what is there to be done and don't forget to ask for the Swami's cerificate

                            <grin>

                            LOL
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