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wild roses Re: [Meditation Society of America] Cross-thinking

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  • texasbg2000
    ... There was a story about a bit of theater that Gurdjieff used to teach his group one night. He picked two people of different temperaments and said they
    Message 1 of 16 , Jun 3, 2003
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      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Nina"
      <murrkis@y...> wrote:
      > > Very Nice Nina, Gurdjieff had a saying, "Roses outside, thorns
      > > inside. Thorns outside, roses inside".
      >
      > You come from the land of wild roses, don't you?
      >
      > We have a bush of them in our sideyard. The roses come and go, but
      > the thorns stick around. Allow me to assure you and Gurdjieff that,
      > in the case of wild roses, if it is thorns on the outside, then it
      > will assuredly be thorns on the inside, too! Ouch!
      >
      > prickly, or was that, pricked,
      > Nina

      There was a story about a bit of theater that Gurdjieff used to teach
      his group one night. He picked two people of different temperaments
      and said they would be part of an experiment.

      One, a doctor who always took part in discussions, was very well
      liked and knowledgable. He was a leader. The other participant was
      a young retiring man who seldom spoke and people knew little about.

      The person relating the story (I forget who), said that the first
      part of the experiment would be secret but that after about an hour
      had passed a strange transformation had taken place.

      The doctor was immobilized and could not speak. The young man who
      had been retiring was now holding forth at length on difficult topics.

      The point was that what is on the surface is not necessarily
      important and is not a good indicator of what is important.

      Love
      Bobby G.
    • Jeff Belyea
      Thanks, cj. Sarlo asked for the rating from member of his group - after a year of dealing with my sometimes good-natured and sometimes not so good-natured
      Message 2 of 16 , Jun 3, 2003
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        Thanks, cj.

        Sarlo asked for the rating
        from member of his group -
        after a year of dealing with
        my sometimes good-natured
        and sometimes not so
        good-natured antagonism.

        I have challenged the concept
        and been a major provocateur of
        the GR site membership since I
        first visited the group about a
        year ago. That rate and I say
        rating is bogus (to use a favorite
        Sarlo term) at best. I've about
        played my hand out there.

        I never used the term Guru,
        before coming upon Sarlo's
        site, and while I have been
        incredibly blessed and graced
        with a powerful transformation
        that saved by life, and began
        speaking and "teaching" about
        it almost immediately, the guru
        persona is relatively new.

        The tie to meditation is that
        this happened while meditating.
        What happened to me in the
        midst of meditation and the
        reports from Near-Death
        Experiencers are startlingly
        similar.

        I wondered about this for
        years, before coming a report
        of yogis who went into deep
        meditation and all but suspended
        breathing, which decreases the
        brain activity and its demand
        for "energy" or "sugar" so much
        that is one of the methods used
        that is frequently precedent to
        bringing on a nirvikalpa samadhi.

        I went on to study meditation,
        hypnosis, relaxation techniques,
        raja yoga, and marketing communications
        looking for ways to share this most
        incredible experience. I'll
        stop here.

        Thanks for generous review.

        Best,

        Jeff

        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cornelius"
        <d_agenda2000@y...> wrote:
        > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea"
        > <jeff@s...> wrote:
        > > Well, this once humble
        > > and retiring meditation
        > > teacher, tucked quietly
        > > in the northeast corner
        > > of the US, has gone and
        > > done it.
        > >
        > > Those of you who have
        > > dual citizenship with
        > > this group and other groups
        > > on the Yahoo! circuit may
        > > know this, already.
        > >
        > > On the Yahoo! Group called
        > > Guru Ratings, moderated
        > > by "Sarlo", I have snarled
        > > and growled at the very
        > > premise for about a year.
        > >
        > > Finally, Sarlo himself
        > > has gone into a snarl,
        > > and posted a poll to "rate"
        > > the irascible persona that
        > > I bring into their midst.
        > > (If you were here in the
        > > days of the Jeff and Judi
        > > show, you've seen pretty
        > > much the full monty).
        > >
        > > What has this to do with
        > > meditation? I'm a long-term
        > > meditator (27 years and
        > > counting - I'm ready to
        > > stop counting) and it will
        > > be interesting to see how
        > > many rate according to
        > > what they have seen of me
        > > at that site, and how many
        > > actually look behind the
        > > mask (persona) to read
        > > information on my website
        > > and the files I have posted
        > > here and there about my
        > > lineage (as a guru) and
        > > my method (as a meditation
        > > teacher and motivational
        > > coach) and my enlightenment
        > > journey.
        > >
        > > Meditation may not do much
        > > to change the outward look
        > > and personality, but it does,
        > > in the world according to me,
        > > brings about dramatic emotional,
        > > psychological, and even possibly
        > > cellular-level changes.
        > > I am also convinced that it
        > > improves coordination and
        > > physical grace, that it
        > > not only relieve stress, but
        > > allow the meditator to take
        > > life's bump and grinds in
        > > stride and with equanimity
        > > in great part.
        > >
        > > Does bias effect fair judgment
        > > and intellect? Is it just
        > > an ego battle? Will this
        > > poll really answer any of
        > > that?
        > >
        > > I'll be back with results
        > > when they are published.
        > > Just thought this might be
        > > of interest to meditators
        > > and spiritual seekers.
        > >
        > > Meanwhile....
        > >
        > > OM
        >
        > Hi Jeff,
        >
        > I don't know what to make of Sarlo's rating system. At first I
        > thought that the site was meant only as a conversational piece for
        > his group, apparently it has a Wider attraction.
        > Indicative of the wider attraction is the number of folks who seem to
        > take it seriously.
        >
        > I've visited the "bud" site only once and it seems that something
        > Major is missing: there is not input by the disciples/students of the
        > the "rated" Guru.
        >
        > Jeff, so you don't think it peculiar that you invite people to rate
        > you when your function here is not that of a Guru?
        >
        > Who better to rate a Teacher/Guru then those who have Worked with the
        > Guru, those who have been with the Guru through Thick and
        > Thin....those who can Conclude either Yes, I have been benefitted by
        > my association with HIM/HER or NO, I have not benefitted from being
        > with HIM/HER.
        > My questions to such a Disciple what then be ....so tell me, What
        > have you learned and How have you changed, progressed and developed.
        >
        > Some here may say "Yes, Jeff is Insightful, Industrious, Experienced
        > and Funny"....the same can be said about Others who have not "taken"
        > up the Guru mantle.
        >
        > Perhaps before we do this "little" Guru rating thing, isn't it fair
        > to Ask...."where are your Disciples (those who call you "Guru") and
        > how do They rate you?"
        >
        > At this point, all I can rate is your Participation/Contribution as a
        > Group Member (here and there): I cast my Vote for you...3 buds =
        > an "exceptional" Member. ;)
        >
        >
        > cjl
      • Jeff Belyea
        maria luisa - You are so sweet. You certainly know that the pure love is reciprocal. My suggestion is that you stay away from this group. They call themselves
        Message 3 of 16 , Jun 3, 2003
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          maria luisa -

          You are so sweet.

          You certainly know that
          the pure love is reciprocal.
          My suggestion is that you
          stay away from this group.

          They call themselves Guru
          Raters but they are not
          always kind. Of course, I
          admittedly come in with
          a chip on my shoulder
          and invite some rough
          stuff. You would be
          received much differently
          I am sure.

          All the love,

          Jeff

          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "mlcanow"
          <mlcanow@y...> wrote:
          > Hi Jeff,
          > i am not a memeber of guru ratings. It really hadn't picked my
          > attention up, but now, observing that so many of you go into that
          > room to chat, maybe i take a step forward in entering too.
          > About rating you.....the least i can do is laugh and laugh!
          > I know you personally, i know you heartedly, and i cannot think
          > about you,(for rating it is neccesary to think, compare, judge,
          > isn't it?) i can only feel you, and that feeling is pure love. Is it
          > possible to rate love?
          >
          > maria luisa
          >
          >
          > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea"
          > <jeff@s...> wrote:
          > > Well, this once humble
          > > and retiring meditation
          > > teacher, tucked quietly
          > > in the northeast corner
          > > of the US, has gone and
          > > done it.
          > >
          > > Those of you who have
          > > dual citizenship with
          > > this group and other groups
          > > on the Yahoo! circuit may
          > > know this, already.
          > >
          > > On the Yahoo! Group called
          > > Guru Ratings, moderated
          > > by "Sarlo", I have snarled
          > > and growled at the very
          > > premise for about a year.
          > >
          > > Finally, Sarlo himself
          > > has gone into a snarl,
          > > and posted a poll to "rate"
          > > the irascible persona that
          > > I bring into their midst.
          > > (If you were here in the
          > > days of the Jeff and Judi
          > > show, you've seen pretty
          > > much the full monty).
          > >
          > > What has this to do with
          > > meditation? I'm a long-term
          > > meditator (27 years and
          > > counting - I'm ready to
          > > stop counting) and it will
          > > be interesting to see how
          > > many rate according to
          > > what they have seen of me
          > > at that site, and how many
          > > actually look behind the
          > > mask (persona) to read
          > > information on my website
          > > and the files I have posted
          > > here and there about my
          > > lineage (as a guru) and
          > > my method (as a meditation
          > > teacher and motivational
          > > coach) and my enlightenment
          > > journey.
          > >
          > > Meditation may not do much
          > > to change the outward look
          > > and personality, but it does,
          > > in the world according to me,
          > > brings about dramatic emotional,
          > > psychological, and even possibly
          > > cellular-level changes.
          > > I am also convinced that it
          > > improves coordination and
          > > physical grace, that it
          > > not only relieve stress, but
          > > allow the meditator to take
          > > life's bump and grinds in
          > > stride and with equanimity
          > > in great part.
          > >
          > > Does bias effect fair judgment
          > > and intellect? Is it just
          > > an ego battle? Will this
          > > poll really answer any of
          > > that?
          > >
          > > I'll be back with results
          > > when they are published.
          > > Just thought this might be
          > > of interest to meditators
          > > and spiritual seekers.
          > >
          > > Meanwhile....
          > >
          > > OM
        • satkartar7
          ... I wondered about this Jeff, I don t think, that your daily activities and the succsess of your seminars will be effected one way or an other Your offering
          Message 4 of 16 , Jun 3, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            > Thanks, cj.
            >
            > Sarlo asked for the rating
            > from member of his group -
            > after a year of dealing with
            > my sometimes good-natured
            > and sometimes not so
            > good-natured antagonism.
            >
            > I have challenged the concept
            > and been a major provocateur of
            > the GR site membership since I
            > first visited the group about a
            > year ago. That rate and I say
            > rating is bogus (to use a favorite
            > Sarlo term) at best. I've about
            > played my hand out there.
            >
            > I never used the term Guru,
            > before coming upon Sarlo's
            > site,

            I wondered about this Jeff, I don't
            think, that your daily activities
            and the succsess of your seminars
            will be effected one way or an other

            Your offering is honest and great

            love, Karta

            > and while I have been
            > incredibly blessed and graced
            > with a powerful transformation
            > that saved by life, and began
            > speaking and "teaching" about
            > it almost immediately, the guru
            > persona is relatively new.
            >
            > The tie to meditation is that
            > this happened while meditating.
            > What happened to me in the
            > midst of meditation and the
            > reports from Near-Death
            > Experiencers are startlingly
            > similar.
            >
            > I wondered about this for
            > years, before coming a report
            > of yogis who went into deep
            > meditation and all but suspended
            > breathing, which decreases the
            > brain activity and its demand
            > for "energy" or "sugar" so much
            > that is one of the methods used
            > that is frequently precedent to
            > bringing on a nirvikalpa samadhi.
            >
            > I went on to study meditation,
            > hypnosis, relaxation techniques,
            > raja yoga, and marketing communications
            > looking for ways to share this most
            > incredible experience. I'll
            > stop here.
            >
            > Thanks for generous review.
            >
            > Best,
            >
            > Jeff
            >
            > > > Well, this once humble
            > > > and retiring meditation
            > > > teacher, tucked quietly
            > > > in the northeast corner
            > > > of the US, has gone and
            > > > done it.
            > > >
            > > > Those of you who have
            > > > dual citizenship with
            > > > this group and other groups
            > > > on the Yahoo! circuit may
            > > > know this, already.
            > > >
            > > > On the Yahoo! Group called
            > > > Guru Ratings, moderated
            > > > by "Sarlo", I have snarled
            > > > and growled at the very
            > > > premise for about a year.
            > > >
            > > > Finally, Sarlo himself
            > > > has gone into a snarl,
            > > > and posted a poll to "rate"
            > > > the irascible persona that
            > > > I bring into their midst.
            > > > (If you were here in the
            > > > days of the Jeff and Judi
            > > > show, you've seen pretty
            > > > much the full monty).
            > > >
            > > > What has this to do with
            > > > meditation? I'm a long-term
            > > > meditator (27 years and
            > > > counting - I'm ready to
            > > > stop counting) and it will
            > > > be interesting to see how
            > > > many rate according to
            > > > what they have seen of me
            > > > at that site, and how many
            > > > actually look behind the
            > > > mask (persona) to read
            > > > information on my website
            > > > and the files I have posted
            > > > here and there about my
            > > > lineage (as a guru) and
            > > > my method (as a meditation
            > > > teacher and motivational
            > > > coach) and my enlightenment
            > > > journey.
            > > >
            > > > Meditation may not do much
            > > > to change the outward look
            > > > and personality, but it does,
            > > > in the world according to me,
            > > > brings about dramatic emotional,
            > > > psychological, and even possibly
            > > > cellular-level changes.
            > > > I am also convinced that it
            > > > improves coordination and
            > > > physical grace, that it
            > > > not only relieve stress, but
            > > > allow the meditator to take
            > > > life's bump and grinds in
            > > > stride and with equanimity
            > > > in great part.
            > > >
            > > > Does bias effect fair judgment
            > > > and intellect? Is it just
            > > > an ego battle? Will this
            > > > poll really answer any of
            > > > that?
            > > >
            > > > I'll be back with results
            > > > when they are published.
            > > > Just thought this might be
            > > > of interest to meditators
            > > > and spiritual seekers.
            > > >
            > > > Meanwhile....
            > > >
            > > > OM
            > >
            > > Hi Jeff,
            > >
            > > I don't know what to make of Sarlo's rating system. At first I
            > > thought that the site was meant only as a conversational piece for
            > > his group, apparently it has a Wider attraction.
            > > Indicative of the wider attraction is the number of folks who seem to
            > > take it seriously.
            > >
            > > I've visited the "bud" site only once and it seems that something
            > > Major is missing: there is not input by the disciples/students of the
            > > the "rated" Guru.
            > >
            > > Jeff, so you don't think it peculiar that you invite people to rate
            > > you when your function here is not that of a Guru?
            > >
            > > Who better to rate a Teacher/Guru then those who have Worked with the
            > > Guru, those who have been with the Guru through Thick and
            > > Thin....those who can Conclude either Yes, I have been benefitted by
            > > my association with HIM/HER or NO, I have not benefitted from being
            > > with HIM/HER.
            > > My questions to such a Disciple what then be ....so tell me, What
            > > have you learned and How have you changed, progressed and developed.
            > >
            > > Some here may say "Yes, Jeff is Insightful, Industrious, Experienced
            > > and Funny"....the same can be said about Others who have not "taken"
            > > up the Guru mantle.
            > >
            > > Perhaps before we do this "little" Guru rating thing, isn't it fair
            > > to Ask...."where are your Disciples (those who call you "Guru") and
            > > how do They rate you?"
            > >
            > > At this point, all I can rate is your Participation/Contribution as a
            > > Group Member (here and there): I cast my Vote for you...3 buds =
            > > an "exceptional" Member. ;)
            > >
            > >
            > > cjl
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