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Re: [Meditation Society of America] Cross-thinking

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  • texasbg2000
    ... with ... makes ... to ... so ... hell ... Very Nice Nina, Gurdjieff had a saying, Roses outside, thorns inside. Thorns outside, roses inside .
    Message 1 of 16 , Jun 3, 2003
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      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Nina"
      <murrkis@y...> wrote:
      >
      > > >I'll be back with results
      > > >when they are published.
      > > >Just thought this might be
      > > >of interest to meditators
      > > >and spiritual seekers.
      >
      > /YAWN/
      >
      > Ratings? Good God.
      >
      > At the very conclusion of my teacher training, in the moment where
      > everyone was preparing to bid adieu to fellows they had trained
      with
      > for over a year, and the feelings were quite fuzzy, and the last
      > lecture was on 'running a successful business' and 'marketing', the
      > lecturer piped up with this curious little statement that blew all
      > the fuzzies to bits:
      >
      > "25 percent of the people have already decided they don't like you."
      >
      > So, next thing you know, the fellows, peoples everyone of them,
      > afterall, are peeping around the room, serruptitiously trying to
      > figure out who their despising 25-percenters are.
      >
      > How about this:
      >
      > You have just had a migratory, digressive chain of thought.
      >
      > You have just recognized it is leading you in a direction that
      makes
      > you feel physically ill and cross and serves no purpose other than
      to
      > perpetuate the insidious internal dialogue.
      >
      > Isn't it curious that one so adept at meditation internally can be
      so
      > ill-equipped to meditate externally?
      >
      > Well, Jeff, you could take that question personally (oh, why the
      hell
      > not? lol), but it transitions nicely into a general question about
      > how an internal mode of operation may or may not be reflected
      > externally. Is there truth in the sense that what one puts out into
      > the world is a reflection of how one deals with oneself?

      Very Nice Nina, Gurdjieff had a saying, "Roses outside, thorns
      inside. Thorns outside, roses inside".
      >
      > Nina
    • Nina
      ... You come from the land of wild roses, don t you? We have a bush of them in our sideyard. The roses come and go, but the thorns stick around. Allow me to
      Message 2 of 16 , Jun 3, 2003
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        > Very Nice Nina, Gurdjieff had a saying, "Roses outside, thorns
        > inside. Thorns outside, roses inside".

        You come from the land of wild roses, don't you?

        We have a bush of them in our sideyard. The roses come and go, but
        the thorns stick around. Allow me to assure you and Gurdjieff that,
        in the case of wild roses, if it is thorns on the outside, then it
        will assuredly be thorns on the inside, too! Ouch!

        prickly, or was that, pricked,
        Nina

        P.S.
        Here's one for you:

        I've seen them down in the valley,
        wild roses that grow by the side of the road,
        and they don't really mind if you pick them
        and they don't really care if you leave them alone.

        Wild roses... Wild roses open their hearts gently by the by.
        Wild roses grow unattended and nobody ever knows why.
        When the sun goes down in the valley
        there's music in the night that it brings,
        and the roses quietly listen
        to the song that the whipporwill sings.

        Wild roses ... wild roses open their hearts gently by the by.
        Wild roses grow unattended and nobody ever knows why.
        You won't hear the sound of them leaving
        as they softly fade into the snow,
        and they don't really care if you pick them.
        Wild roses just grow by the side of the road.
        Wild roses just grow by the side of the road.

        Words & Music: Kimmie Rhodes
        Irving Music/Gracey-Rhodes Music
      • satkartar7
        ... I was curious and the way to see the poll is to vote, so I voted no vote I dunno what that means, the poll said 22% next to my vote and I don t
        Message 3 of 16 , Jun 3, 2003
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          > J: snip
          > >
          > > I'll be back with results
          > > when they are published.
          > > Just thought this might be
          > > of interest to meditators
          > > and spiritual seekers.
          > >
          > > Meanwhile....
          > >
          > > OM
          >
          > Not wanting to do anything behind anyone's computer back,


          I was curious and the way to see the
          poll is to vote, so I voted 'no vote'

          I dunno what that means, the poll
          said 22% next to my vote and I don't undertsnad that either: because 22%
          is not neutral; which I voted for

          Karta

          > here's a repost of mine to GuruRatings:
          >
          > So I'm sitting there checking out the poll, and I initially
          > gave Jeff a 4.5. But then, I thought I better see how that
          > relates to others, and I find that Swami Satchidananda is
          > only 1 bud (Hey Gene - whattayathinkadat?), and Swami Sivananda
          > is only 2 1/2. So I recalibrate a few times, and then saw Matthew
          > Files post that defines the values, and I see that 4.5 is:
          > "4.5 vast enough for most, some reservations"
          > Well, there's no doubt Papajeff isn't "for everybody", which is
          > a 5 bud quailifier, and since others ratings have no reality, as
          > the 2 Swami's demonstrate, I'm going with the 4.5. BTW, I have read
          > Two Lions, and I'm sure that if those who put Jeff down read it
          > without knowing who the author was, they would agree it was written
          > by someone who "Knows", or some similar adjective. In any event, as
          > St. John Lennon said, "It's all in good fun, ya know:-)"
          >
          > Peace and blessings,
          > Bob
        • Jeff Belyea
          Yes, it s a yawn. It was early and I was lonely. I think we re tougher on ourselves. Best, Jeff
          Message 4 of 16 , Jun 3, 2003
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            Yes, it's a yawn.
            It was early and
            I was lonely.

            I think we're tougher
            on ourselves.

            Best,

            Jeff


            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Nina"
            <murrkis@y...> wrote:
            >
            > > >I'll be back with results
            > > >when they are published.
            > > >Just thought this might be
            > > >of interest to meditators
            > > >and spiritual seekers.
            >
            > /YAWN/
            >
            > Ratings? Good God.
            >
            > At the very conclusion of my teacher training, in the moment where
            > everyone was preparing to bid adieu to fellows they had trained with
            > for over a year, and the feelings were quite fuzzy, and the last
            > lecture was on 'running a successful business' and 'marketing', the
            > lecturer piped up with this curious little statement that blew all
            > the fuzzies to bits:
            >
            > "25 percent of the people have already decided they don't like you."
            >
            > So, next thing you know, the fellows, peoples everyone of them,
            > afterall, are peeping around the room, serruptitiously trying to
            > figure out who their despising 25-percenters are.
            >
            > How about this:
            >
            > You have just had a migratory, digressive chain of thought.
            >
            > You have just recognized it is leading you in a direction that makes
            > you feel physically ill and cross and serves no purpose other than to
            > perpetuate the insidious internal dialogue.
            >
            > Isn't it curious that one so adept at meditation internally can be so
            > ill-equipped to meditate externally?
            >
            > Well, Jeff, you could take that question personally (oh, why the hell
            > not? lol), but it transitions nicely into a general question about
            > how an internal mode of operation may or may not be reflected
            > externally. Is there truth in the sense that what one puts out into
            > the world is a reflection of how one deals with oneself?
            >
            > Nina
          • cornelius
            ... Hi Jeff, I don t know what to make of Sarlo s rating system. At first I thought that the site was meant only as a conversational piece for his group,
            Message 5 of 16 , Jun 3, 2003
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              --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea"
              <jeff@s...> wrote:
              > Well, this once humble
              > and retiring meditation
              > teacher, tucked quietly
              > in the northeast corner
              > of the US, has gone and
              > done it.
              >
              > Those of you who have
              > dual citizenship with
              > this group and other groups
              > on the Yahoo! circuit may
              > know this, already.
              >
              > On the Yahoo! Group called
              > Guru Ratings, moderated
              > by "Sarlo", I have snarled
              > and growled at the very
              > premise for about a year.
              >
              > Finally, Sarlo himself
              > has gone into a snarl,
              > and posted a poll to "rate"
              > the irascible persona that
              > I bring into their midst.
              > (If you were here in the
              > days of the Jeff and Judi
              > show, you've seen pretty
              > much the full monty).
              >
              > What has this to do with
              > meditation? I'm a long-term
              > meditator (27 years and
              > counting - I'm ready to
              > stop counting) and it will
              > be interesting to see how
              > many rate according to
              > what they have seen of me
              > at that site, and how many
              > actually look behind the
              > mask (persona) to read
              > information on my website
              > and the files I have posted
              > here and there about my
              > lineage (as a guru) and
              > my method (as a meditation
              > teacher and motivational
              > coach) and my enlightenment
              > journey.
              >
              > Meditation may not do much
              > to change the outward look
              > and personality, but it does,
              > in the world according to me,
              > brings about dramatic emotional,
              > psychological, and even possibly
              > cellular-level changes.
              > I am also convinced that it
              > improves coordination and
              > physical grace, that it
              > not only relieve stress, but
              > allow the meditator to take
              > life's bump and grinds in
              > stride and with equanimity
              > in great part.
              >
              > Does bias effect fair judgment
              > and intellect? Is it just
              > an ego battle? Will this
              > poll really answer any of
              > that?
              >
              > I'll be back with results
              > when they are published.
              > Just thought this might be
              > of interest to meditators
              > and spiritual seekers.
              >
              > Meanwhile....
              >
              > OM

              Hi Jeff,

              I don't know what to make of Sarlo's rating system. At first I
              thought that the site was meant only as a conversational piece for
              his group, apparently it has a Wider attraction.
              Indicative of the wider attraction is the number of folks who seem to
              take it seriously.

              I've visited the "bud" site only once and it seems that something
              Major is missing: there is not input by the disciples/students of the
              the "rated" Guru.

              Jeff, so you don't think it peculiar that you invite people to rate
              you when your function here is not that of a Guru?

              Who better to rate a Teacher/Guru then those who have Worked with the
              Guru, those who have been with the Guru through Thick and
              Thin....those who can Conclude either Yes, I have been benefitted by
              my association with HIM/HER or NO, I have not benefitted from being
              with HIM/HER.
              My questions to such a Disciple what then be ....so tell me, What
              have you learned and How have you changed, progressed and developed.

              Some here may say "Yes, Jeff is Insightful, Industrious, Experienced
              and Funny"....the same can be said about Others who have not "taken"
              up the Guru mantle.

              Perhaps before we do this "little" Guru rating thing, isn't it fair
              to Ask...."where are your Disciples (those who call you "Guru") and
              how do They rate you?"

              At this point, all I can rate is your Participation/Contribution as a
              Group Member (here and there): I cast my Vote for you...3 buds =
              an "exceptional" Member. ;)


              cjl
            • mlcanow
              Hi Jeff, i am not a memeber of guru ratings. It really hadn t picked my attention up, but now, observing that so many of you go into that room to chat, maybe i
              Message 6 of 16 , Jun 3, 2003
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                Hi Jeff,
                i am not a memeber of guru ratings. It really hadn't picked my
                attention up, but now, observing that so many of you go into that
                room to chat, maybe i take a step forward in entering too.
                About rating you.....the least i can do is laugh and laugh!
                I know you personally, i know you heartedly, and i cannot think
                about you,(for rating it is neccesary to think, compare, judge,
                isn't it?) i can only feel you, and that feeling is pure love. Is it
                possible to rate love?

                maria luisa


                --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea"
                <jeff@s...> wrote:
                > Well, this once humble
                > and retiring meditation
                > teacher, tucked quietly
                > in the northeast corner
                > of the US, has gone and
                > done it.
                >
                > Those of you who have
                > dual citizenship with
                > this group and other groups
                > on the Yahoo! circuit may
                > know this, already.
                >
                > On the Yahoo! Group called
                > Guru Ratings, moderated
                > by "Sarlo", I have snarled
                > and growled at the very
                > premise for about a year.
                >
                > Finally, Sarlo himself
                > has gone into a snarl,
                > and posted a poll to "rate"
                > the irascible persona that
                > I bring into their midst.
                > (If you were here in the
                > days of the Jeff and Judi
                > show, you've seen pretty
                > much the full monty).
                >
                > What has this to do with
                > meditation? I'm a long-term
                > meditator (27 years and
                > counting - I'm ready to
                > stop counting) and it will
                > be interesting to see how
                > many rate according to
                > what they have seen of me
                > at that site, and how many
                > actually look behind the
                > mask (persona) to read
                > information on my website
                > and the files I have posted
                > here and there about my
                > lineage (as a guru) and
                > my method (as a meditation
                > teacher and motivational
                > coach) and my enlightenment
                > journey.
                >
                > Meditation may not do much
                > to change the outward look
                > and personality, but it does,
                > in the world according to me,
                > brings about dramatic emotional,
                > psychological, and even possibly
                > cellular-level changes.
                > I am also convinced that it
                > improves coordination and
                > physical grace, that it
                > not only relieve stress, but
                > allow the meditator to take
                > life's bump and grinds in
                > stride and with equanimity
                > in great part.
                >
                > Does bias effect fair judgment
                > and intellect? Is it just
                > an ego battle? Will this
                > poll really answer any of
                > that?
                >
                > I'll be back with results
                > when they are published.
                > Just thought this might be
                > of interest to meditators
                > and spiritual seekers.
                >
                > Meanwhile....
                >
                > OM
              • texasbg2000
                ... There was a story about a bit of theater that Gurdjieff used to teach his group one night. He picked two people of different temperaments and said they
                Message 7 of 16 , Jun 3, 2003
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                  --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Nina"
                  <murrkis@y...> wrote:
                  > > Very Nice Nina, Gurdjieff had a saying, "Roses outside, thorns
                  > > inside. Thorns outside, roses inside".
                  >
                  > You come from the land of wild roses, don't you?
                  >
                  > We have a bush of them in our sideyard. The roses come and go, but
                  > the thorns stick around. Allow me to assure you and Gurdjieff that,
                  > in the case of wild roses, if it is thorns on the outside, then it
                  > will assuredly be thorns on the inside, too! Ouch!
                  >
                  > prickly, or was that, pricked,
                  > Nina

                  There was a story about a bit of theater that Gurdjieff used to teach
                  his group one night. He picked two people of different temperaments
                  and said they would be part of an experiment.

                  One, a doctor who always took part in discussions, was very well
                  liked and knowledgable. He was a leader. The other participant was
                  a young retiring man who seldom spoke and people knew little about.

                  The person relating the story (I forget who), said that the first
                  part of the experiment would be secret but that after about an hour
                  had passed a strange transformation had taken place.

                  The doctor was immobilized and could not speak. The young man who
                  had been retiring was now holding forth at length on difficult topics.

                  The point was that what is on the surface is not necessarily
                  important and is not a good indicator of what is important.

                  Love
                  Bobby G.
                • Jeff Belyea
                  Thanks, cj. Sarlo asked for the rating from member of his group - after a year of dealing with my sometimes good-natured and sometimes not so good-natured
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jun 3, 2003
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                    Thanks, cj.

                    Sarlo asked for the rating
                    from member of his group -
                    after a year of dealing with
                    my sometimes good-natured
                    and sometimes not so
                    good-natured antagonism.

                    I have challenged the concept
                    and been a major provocateur of
                    the GR site membership since I
                    first visited the group about a
                    year ago. That rate and I say
                    rating is bogus (to use a favorite
                    Sarlo term) at best. I've about
                    played my hand out there.

                    I never used the term Guru,
                    before coming upon Sarlo's
                    site, and while I have been
                    incredibly blessed and graced
                    with a powerful transformation
                    that saved by life, and began
                    speaking and "teaching" about
                    it almost immediately, the guru
                    persona is relatively new.

                    The tie to meditation is that
                    this happened while meditating.
                    What happened to me in the
                    midst of meditation and the
                    reports from Near-Death
                    Experiencers are startlingly
                    similar.

                    I wondered about this for
                    years, before coming a report
                    of yogis who went into deep
                    meditation and all but suspended
                    breathing, which decreases the
                    brain activity and its demand
                    for "energy" or "sugar" so much
                    that is one of the methods used
                    that is frequently precedent to
                    bringing on a nirvikalpa samadhi.

                    I went on to study meditation,
                    hypnosis, relaxation techniques,
                    raja yoga, and marketing communications
                    looking for ways to share this most
                    incredible experience. I'll
                    stop here.

                    Thanks for generous review.

                    Best,

                    Jeff

                    --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cornelius"
                    <d_agenda2000@y...> wrote:
                    > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea"
                    > <jeff@s...> wrote:
                    > > Well, this once humble
                    > > and retiring meditation
                    > > teacher, tucked quietly
                    > > in the northeast corner
                    > > of the US, has gone and
                    > > done it.
                    > >
                    > > Those of you who have
                    > > dual citizenship with
                    > > this group and other groups
                    > > on the Yahoo! circuit may
                    > > know this, already.
                    > >
                    > > On the Yahoo! Group called
                    > > Guru Ratings, moderated
                    > > by "Sarlo", I have snarled
                    > > and growled at the very
                    > > premise for about a year.
                    > >
                    > > Finally, Sarlo himself
                    > > has gone into a snarl,
                    > > and posted a poll to "rate"
                    > > the irascible persona that
                    > > I bring into their midst.
                    > > (If you were here in the
                    > > days of the Jeff and Judi
                    > > show, you've seen pretty
                    > > much the full monty).
                    > >
                    > > What has this to do with
                    > > meditation? I'm a long-term
                    > > meditator (27 years and
                    > > counting - I'm ready to
                    > > stop counting) and it will
                    > > be interesting to see how
                    > > many rate according to
                    > > what they have seen of me
                    > > at that site, and how many
                    > > actually look behind the
                    > > mask (persona) to read
                    > > information on my website
                    > > and the files I have posted
                    > > here and there about my
                    > > lineage (as a guru) and
                    > > my method (as a meditation
                    > > teacher and motivational
                    > > coach) and my enlightenment
                    > > journey.
                    > >
                    > > Meditation may not do much
                    > > to change the outward look
                    > > and personality, but it does,
                    > > in the world according to me,
                    > > brings about dramatic emotional,
                    > > psychological, and even possibly
                    > > cellular-level changes.
                    > > I am also convinced that it
                    > > improves coordination and
                    > > physical grace, that it
                    > > not only relieve stress, but
                    > > allow the meditator to take
                    > > life's bump and grinds in
                    > > stride and with equanimity
                    > > in great part.
                    > >
                    > > Does bias effect fair judgment
                    > > and intellect? Is it just
                    > > an ego battle? Will this
                    > > poll really answer any of
                    > > that?
                    > >
                    > > I'll be back with results
                    > > when they are published.
                    > > Just thought this might be
                    > > of interest to meditators
                    > > and spiritual seekers.
                    > >
                    > > Meanwhile....
                    > >
                    > > OM
                    >
                    > Hi Jeff,
                    >
                    > I don't know what to make of Sarlo's rating system. At first I
                    > thought that the site was meant only as a conversational piece for
                    > his group, apparently it has a Wider attraction.
                    > Indicative of the wider attraction is the number of folks who seem to
                    > take it seriously.
                    >
                    > I've visited the "bud" site only once and it seems that something
                    > Major is missing: there is not input by the disciples/students of the
                    > the "rated" Guru.
                    >
                    > Jeff, so you don't think it peculiar that you invite people to rate
                    > you when your function here is not that of a Guru?
                    >
                    > Who better to rate a Teacher/Guru then those who have Worked with the
                    > Guru, those who have been with the Guru through Thick and
                    > Thin....those who can Conclude either Yes, I have been benefitted by
                    > my association with HIM/HER or NO, I have not benefitted from being
                    > with HIM/HER.
                    > My questions to such a Disciple what then be ....so tell me, What
                    > have you learned and How have you changed, progressed and developed.
                    >
                    > Some here may say "Yes, Jeff is Insightful, Industrious, Experienced
                    > and Funny"....the same can be said about Others who have not "taken"
                    > up the Guru mantle.
                    >
                    > Perhaps before we do this "little" Guru rating thing, isn't it fair
                    > to Ask...."where are your Disciples (those who call you "Guru") and
                    > how do They rate you?"
                    >
                    > At this point, all I can rate is your Participation/Contribution as a
                    > Group Member (here and there): I cast my Vote for you...3 buds =
                    > an "exceptional" Member. ;)
                    >
                    >
                    > cjl
                  • Jeff Belyea
                    maria luisa - You are so sweet. You certainly know that the pure love is reciprocal. My suggestion is that you stay away from this group. They call themselves
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jun 3, 2003
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                      maria luisa -

                      You are so sweet.

                      You certainly know that
                      the pure love is reciprocal.
                      My suggestion is that you
                      stay away from this group.

                      They call themselves Guru
                      Raters but they are not
                      always kind. Of course, I
                      admittedly come in with
                      a chip on my shoulder
                      and invite some rough
                      stuff. You would be
                      received much differently
                      I am sure.

                      All the love,

                      Jeff

                      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "mlcanow"
                      <mlcanow@y...> wrote:
                      > Hi Jeff,
                      > i am not a memeber of guru ratings. It really hadn't picked my
                      > attention up, but now, observing that so many of you go into that
                      > room to chat, maybe i take a step forward in entering too.
                      > About rating you.....the least i can do is laugh and laugh!
                      > I know you personally, i know you heartedly, and i cannot think
                      > about you,(for rating it is neccesary to think, compare, judge,
                      > isn't it?) i can only feel you, and that feeling is pure love. Is it
                      > possible to rate love?
                      >
                      > maria luisa
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea"
                      > <jeff@s...> wrote:
                      > > Well, this once humble
                      > > and retiring meditation
                      > > teacher, tucked quietly
                      > > in the northeast corner
                      > > of the US, has gone and
                      > > done it.
                      > >
                      > > Those of you who have
                      > > dual citizenship with
                      > > this group and other groups
                      > > on the Yahoo! circuit may
                      > > know this, already.
                      > >
                      > > On the Yahoo! Group called
                      > > Guru Ratings, moderated
                      > > by "Sarlo", I have snarled
                      > > and growled at the very
                      > > premise for about a year.
                      > >
                      > > Finally, Sarlo himself
                      > > has gone into a snarl,
                      > > and posted a poll to "rate"
                      > > the irascible persona that
                      > > I bring into their midst.
                      > > (If you were here in the
                      > > days of the Jeff and Judi
                      > > show, you've seen pretty
                      > > much the full monty).
                      > >
                      > > What has this to do with
                      > > meditation? I'm a long-term
                      > > meditator (27 years and
                      > > counting - I'm ready to
                      > > stop counting) and it will
                      > > be interesting to see how
                      > > many rate according to
                      > > what they have seen of me
                      > > at that site, and how many
                      > > actually look behind the
                      > > mask (persona) to read
                      > > information on my website
                      > > and the files I have posted
                      > > here and there about my
                      > > lineage (as a guru) and
                      > > my method (as a meditation
                      > > teacher and motivational
                      > > coach) and my enlightenment
                      > > journey.
                      > >
                      > > Meditation may not do much
                      > > to change the outward look
                      > > and personality, but it does,
                      > > in the world according to me,
                      > > brings about dramatic emotional,
                      > > psychological, and even possibly
                      > > cellular-level changes.
                      > > I am also convinced that it
                      > > improves coordination and
                      > > physical grace, that it
                      > > not only relieve stress, but
                      > > allow the meditator to take
                      > > life's bump and grinds in
                      > > stride and with equanimity
                      > > in great part.
                      > >
                      > > Does bias effect fair judgment
                      > > and intellect? Is it just
                      > > an ego battle? Will this
                      > > poll really answer any of
                      > > that?
                      > >
                      > > I'll be back with results
                      > > when they are published.
                      > > Just thought this might be
                      > > of interest to meditators
                      > > and spiritual seekers.
                      > >
                      > > Meanwhile....
                      > >
                      > > OM
                    • satkartar7
                      ... I wondered about this Jeff, I don t think, that your daily activities and the succsess of your seminars will be effected one way or an other Your offering
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jun 3, 2003
                      • 0 Attachment
                        > Thanks, cj.
                        >
                        > Sarlo asked for the rating
                        > from member of his group -
                        > after a year of dealing with
                        > my sometimes good-natured
                        > and sometimes not so
                        > good-natured antagonism.
                        >
                        > I have challenged the concept
                        > and been a major provocateur of
                        > the GR site membership since I
                        > first visited the group about a
                        > year ago. That rate and I say
                        > rating is bogus (to use a favorite
                        > Sarlo term) at best. I've about
                        > played my hand out there.
                        >
                        > I never used the term Guru,
                        > before coming upon Sarlo's
                        > site,

                        I wondered about this Jeff, I don't
                        think, that your daily activities
                        and the succsess of your seminars
                        will be effected one way or an other

                        Your offering is honest and great

                        love, Karta

                        > and while I have been
                        > incredibly blessed and graced
                        > with a powerful transformation
                        > that saved by life, and began
                        > speaking and "teaching" about
                        > it almost immediately, the guru
                        > persona is relatively new.
                        >
                        > The tie to meditation is that
                        > this happened while meditating.
                        > What happened to me in the
                        > midst of meditation and the
                        > reports from Near-Death
                        > Experiencers are startlingly
                        > similar.
                        >
                        > I wondered about this for
                        > years, before coming a report
                        > of yogis who went into deep
                        > meditation and all but suspended
                        > breathing, which decreases the
                        > brain activity and its demand
                        > for "energy" or "sugar" so much
                        > that is one of the methods used
                        > that is frequently precedent to
                        > bringing on a nirvikalpa samadhi.
                        >
                        > I went on to study meditation,
                        > hypnosis, relaxation techniques,
                        > raja yoga, and marketing communications
                        > looking for ways to share this most
                        > incredible experience. I'll
                        > stop here.
                        >
                        > Thanks for generous review.
                        >
                        > Best,
                        >
                        > Jeff
                        >
                        > > > Well, this once humble
                        > > > and retiring meditation
                        > > > teacher, tucked quietly
                        > > > in the northeast corner
                        > > > of the US, has gone and
                        > > > done it.
                        > > >
                        > > > Those of you who have
                        > > > dual citizenship with
                        > > > this group and other groups
                        > > > on the Yahoo! circuit may
                        > > > know this, already.
                        > > >
                        > > > On the Yahoo! Group called
                        > > > Guru Ratings, moderated
                        > > > by "Sarlo", I have snarled
                        > > > and growled at the very
                        > > > premise for about a year.
                        > > >
                        > > > Finally, Sarlo himself
                        > > > has gone into a snarl,
                        > > > and posted a poll to "rate"
                        > > > the irascible persona that
                        > > > I bring into their midst.
                        > > > (If you were here in the
                        > > > days of the Jeff and Judi
                        > > > show, you've seen pretty
                        > > > much the full monty).
                        > > >
                        > > > What has this to do with
                        > > > meditation? I'm a long-term
                        > > > meditator (27 years and
                        > > > counting - I'm ready to
                        > > > stop counting) and it will
                        > > > be interesting to see how
                        > > > many rate according to
                        > > > what they have seen of me
                        > > > at that site, and how many
                        > > > actually look behind the
                        > > > mask (persona) to read
                        > > > information on my website
                        > > > and the files I have posted
                        > > > here and there about my
                        > > > lineage (as a guru) and
                        > > > my method (as a meditation
                        > > > teacher and motivational
                        > > > coach) and my enlightenment
                        > > > journey.
                        > > >
                        > > > Meditation may not do much
                        > > > to change the outward look
                        > > > and personality, but it does,
                        > > > in the world according to me,
                        > > > brings about dramatic emotional,
                        > > > psychological, and even possibly
                        > > > cellular-level changes.
                        > > > I am also convinced that it
                        > > > improves coordination and
                        > > > physical grace, that it
                        > > > not only relieve stress, but
                        > > > allow the meditator to take
                        > > > life's bump and grinds in
                        > > > stride and with equanimity
                        > > > in great part.
                        > > >
                        > > > Does bias effect fair judgment
                        > > > and intellect? Is it just
                        > > > an ego battle? Will this
                        > > > poll really answer any of
                        > > > that?
                        > > >
                        > > > I'll be back with results
                        > > > when they are published.
                        > > > Just thought this might be
                        > > > of interest to meditators
                        > > > and spiritual seekers.
                        > > >
                        > > > Meanwhile....
                        > > >
                        > > > OM
                        > >
                        > > Hi Jeff,
                        > >
                        > > I don't know what to make of Sarlo's rating system. At first I
                        > > thought that the site was meant only as a conversational piece for
                        > > his group, apparently it has a Wider attraction.
                        > > Indicative of the wider attraction is the number of folks who seem to
                        > > take it seriously.
                        > >
                        > > I've visited the "bud" site only once and it seems that something
                        > > Major is missing: there is not input by the disciples/students of the
                        > > the "rated" Guru.
                        > >
                        > > Jeff, so you don't think it peculiar that you invite people to rate
                        > > you when your function here is not that of a Guru?
                        > >
                        > > Who better to rate a Teacher/Guru then those who have Worked with the
                        > > Guru, those who have been with the Guru through Thick and
                        > > Thin....those who can Conclude either Yes, I have been benefitted by
                        > > my association with HIM/HER or NO, I have not benefitted from being
                        > > with HIM/HER.
                        > > My questions to such a Disciple what then be ....so tell me, What
                        > > have you learned and How have you changed, progressed and developed.
                        > >
                        > > Some here may say "Yes, Jeff is Insightful, Industrious, Experienced
                        > > and Funny"....the same can be said about Others who have not "taken"
                        > > up the Guru mantle.
                        > >
                        > > Perhaps before we do this "little" Guru rating thing, isn't it fair
                        > > to Ask...."where are your Disciples (those who call you "Guru") and
                        > > how do They rate you?"
                        > >
                        > > At this point, all I can rate is your Participation/Contribution as a
                        > > Group Member (here and there): I cast my Vote for you...3 buds =
                        > > an "exceptional" Member. ;)
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > cjl
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