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Re: [Meditation Society of America] Maximum Headroom

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  • Bruce Morgen
    On Thu, 29 May 2003 11:48:36 -0000 Jeff Belyea ... Is this a declaration born of recent experience or did you just get an unexplainable urge to hold forth on
    Message 1 of 4 , May 29, 2003
      On Thu, 29 May 2003 11:48:36 -0000 "Jeff Belyea"
      <jeff@...> writes:
      > No matter how much an unenlightened
      > person attempts to come up with the
      > perfect "unanswerable question" to
      > place before an enlightened person,
      > all their badgering will fail.

      Is this a declaration born
      of recent experience or
      did you just get an
      unexplainable urge to hold
      forth on the topic?
      >
      > Not because the guru or the enlightened
      > person is necessarily more clever or
      > intelligent, but because no matter how
      > many words are exchanged, an unenlightened
      > person cannot understand enlightenment,
      > and their concepts of it are mere shadows.

      True enough, although the
      above doesn't make "the
      guru or the enlightened
      person" into some sort of
      ubermensch or confer a
      license to address others
      as if from a podium. :-)
      >
      > The con game is not the guru game. The
      > con game is the shallow mis-interpretation
      > of Advaita, presented by the host of
      > "popcorn farts" who show up to smugly
      > find the flaw and spout their transparent
      > "wisdom" that there is no such thing as
      > enlightenment, or that we are all already
      > enlightened and there is nothing to do.
      >
      > Enjoying life,
      > Enjoying enlightenment
      > Unshakable, unmistakable,
      >
      You forgot "occasionally
      insufferable!" :-)

      The statements "we are all
      already enlightened" and
      "there is nothing to do"
      are literally true -- what
      makes them problematic is
      what egocentric thought
      infers from them, e.g.
      "Since I'm already
      enlightened, then all my
      current notions and quirks
      must be enlightened and/or
      enlightening" or "Since
      there is nothing to do,
      it's pointless to wash the
      dishes." Leave it to the
      unobserved ego to use a
      couple of simple facts to
      rationalize hubris, sloth,
      et al!

      __________________________________________________
      http://come.to/realization
      http://www.atman.net/realization
      http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm
      http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm

      ________________________________________________________________
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    • Nina
      ... Bruce, I thought it was a satirical piece as indicated by the very clever title of the post. :) Nina
      Message 2 of 4 , May 29, 2003
        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Morgen
        <editor@j...> wrote:
        >
        > On Thu, 29 May 2003 11:48:36 -0000 "Jeff Belyea"
        > <jeff@s...> writes:
        > > No matter how much an unenlightened
        > > person attempts to come up with the
        > > perfect "unanswerable question" to
        > > place before an enlightened person,
        > > all their badgering will fail.
        >
        > Is this a declaration born
        > of recent experience or
        > did you just get an
        > unexplainable urge to hold
        > forth on the topic?

        Bruce, I thought it was a satirical piece as indicated by the very
        clever title of the post. :)

        Nina
      • Jeff Belyea
        ... A response to what I see as recent badgering, and its role as a time-honored tradition. ... Well, we all have our podia here, don t we? I see it more as
        Message 3 of 4 , May 29, 2003
          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Morgen
          <editor@j...> wrote:
          >
          > On Thu, 29 May 2003 11:48:36 -0000 "Jeff Belyea"
          > <jeff@s...> writes:
          > > No matter how much an unenlightened
          > > person attempts to come up with the
          > > perfect "unanswerable question" to
          > > place before an enlightened person,
          > > all their badgering will fail.
          >
          > Is this a declaration born
          > of recent experience or
          > did you just get an
          > unexplainable urge to hold
          > forth on the topic?

          A response to what I
          see as recent badgering,
          and its role as a
          time-honored tradition.

          > >
          > > Not because the guru or the enlightened
          > > person is necessarily more clever or
          > > intelligent, but because no matter how
          > > many words are exchanged, an unenlightened
          > > person cannot understand enlightenment,
          > > and their concepts of it are mere shadows.
          >
          > True enough, although the
          > above doesn't make "the
          > guru or the enlightened
          > person" into some sort of
          > ubermensch or confer a
          > license to address others
          > as if from a podium. :-)

          Well, we all have our podia
          here, don't we? I see it more
          as across the ring than from
          an elevated position.

          > >
          > > The con game is not the guru game. The
          > > con game is the shallow mis-interpretation
          > > of Advaita, presented by the host of
          > > "popcorn farts" who show up to smugly
          > > find the flaw and spout their transparent
          > > "wisdom" that there is no such thing as
          > > enlightenment, or that we are all already
          > > enlightened and there is nothing to do.
          > >
          > > Enjoying life,
          > > Enjoying enlightenment
          > > Unshakable, unmistakable,
          > >
          > You forgot "occasionally
          > insufferable!" :-)

          If by that you mean unwilling
          to accept the edict that life
          is suffering, yes. If you mean
          it more classically, then one
          light touch of the keyboard will
          assuage your intolerable pain.

          >
          > The statements "we are all
          > already enlightened" and
          > "there is nothing to do"
          > are literally true -- what
          > makes them problematic is
          > what egocentric thought
          > infers from them, e.g.
          > "Since I'm already
          > enlightened, then all my
          > current notions and quirks
          > must be enlightened and/or
          > enlightening" or "Since
          > there is nothing to do,
          > it's pointless to wash the
          > dishes." Leave it to the
          > unobserved ego to use a
          > couple of simple facts to
          > rationalize hubris, sloth,
          > et al!

          Yes, it's the problematic
          portion that provokes the
          persistent polemics.

          Always enjoy an exchange
          with one of the more
          articulate provocateurs.

          All is love,

          Jeff


          >
          > __________________________________________________
          > http://come.to/realization
          > http://www.atman.net/realization
          > http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm
          > http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm
          >
          > ________________________________________________________________
          > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
          > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
          > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
        • Jeff Belyea
          ... Hi Nina - Thanks. I m taking humor classes from freyja. They must be paying off. Good laughing with you, Jeff
          Message 4 of 4 , May 29, 2003
            >
            > Bruce, I thought it was a satirical piece as indicated by the very
            > clever title of the post. :)
            >
            > Nina

            Hi Nina -

            Thanks.

            I'm taking humor classes
            from freyja. They must be
            paying off.

            Good laughing with you,

            Jeff
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