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[Meditation Society of America] Re: Bliss is not Awakening P.II

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  • cornelius
    Jason, What you say here seems to equate to something like look, there s Nothing happening...all is Empty..period. If the conclusion on phenomenon is that
    Message 1 of 9 , May 27, 2003
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      Jason,

      What you say here seems to equate to something like "look,
      there's "Nothing" happening...all is Empty..period."
      If the conclusion on phenomenon is that it is Nothing and all is
      Empty, than this conclusion will inform activity and beingness.
      With the psychological/philosophical "backdrop" of 'all is nothing',
      there develops certain dispositions towards life and activities.
      'All is Nothing' seems like a great avenue along the way of spiritual
      detachment.
      But that perspective ain't the only avenue for maintaining
      detachment. For example, to attribute profound meaning to God, to be
      greatly attached to God can loosen one's attachment to all that is
      viewed as "not of God" (You, of course, don't see things that way,
      for you (and me), there is no separation: God here, but no God there).

      C




      -- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Jason Fishman
      <munkiman4u@y...> wrote:
      > Thanks for this Cornelius, it's sounds wonderfully
      > meaningful. Although in the transitional play of
      > meaning non-meaning, the source can only envovle all
      > that is neither. This is the emptiness spoken as often
      > as it is said to be the secrets of the ancients. Also
      > discussed throughout all religions and philosophies as
      > god, tao, maya and on and on. This on and on is
      > thought of to have a starting point, originating from
      > source and returning to source, yet since all things
      > are so tightly connected, the end is the begining that
      > never starts or stops.
      >
      > This doesn't justify the human experience, since the
      > nature of this is thought of in a way to perpetuate
      > our human living experience in a way that we can keep
      > going, have some meaning to perpetuate to some end.
      > The fact remains that nothing gets beyond to come back
      > and discuss what is beyond, since the beyond never
      > left right here.
      >
      > Peace and Love
      > --- cornelius <d_agenda2000@y...> wrote:
      > >
      > > Hi Jason,
      > >
      > > I don't have Kabbalist material on "nothingness"
      > > yet, but I'll throw
      > > this out in meantime:
      > >
      > > "The totality of all that exists is contained in the
      > > One from which
      > > everything came. This Divine Unity is not only
      > > greater than anything
      > > contained within it, but presents in itself the
      > > smallest separate
      > > unit. According to the Kabbalah the point of origin
      > > of all 'things'
      > > is symbolized by the Crown of Crowns, which has
      > > appellated to it the
      > > Divine Name I AM THAT I AM. The meaning of this Holy
      > > statement is not
      > > only a declaration of intent but a description of
      > > the complete cycle
      > > of manifestation from the going forth of Divine Will
      > > in the opening I
      > > AM to its return in the echo, and repetition I AM.
      > > Between these two
      > > Holy Names, in the word "that" is all there was, is,
      > > and shall be."
      > >
      > > Z'ev Halevi
      > >
      > > Creation mythology with a nice, pristine Esoteric
      > > twist.
      > > For me, religious/spiritual iconography serves the
      > > purpose of
      > > enthrallment. Such is the case with Deity worship in
      > > Tibetan Buddhism
      > > and Jesus on the Cross in Pentacostalism: the images
      > > represent an
      > > invitation to the ego to surrender to "something"
      > > overwhelmingly
      > > meaningful.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
      > > Jason Fishman
      > > <munkiman4u@y...> wrote:
      > > > A breif exerpt on nothingness.
      > > >
      > > > -Positive and negative phenomena are experience.
      > > >
      > > > -Nothingness has no experience (a stepping away
      > > from
      > > > positive and negative phenomena, in a sense)
      > > >
      > > > The loop is at it's core is nothingness, empty,
      > > > vacant, with-out. Circling around, born from
      > > > singularity is multiplicity of the phenomena,
      > > positive
      > > > and negative.
      > > >
      > > > Born from and returned to, emptiness. Truth and
      > > irony
      > > > are one.
      > > >
      > > > Peace and Love
      > > >
      > > > --- cornelius <d_agenda2000@y...> wrote:
      > > > > Good Morning Karta,
      > > > >
      > > > > Your excerpt is intriguing. The insights on
      > > > > meditation, esp.,the
      > > > > shifting mental states (transition from dreaming
      > > to
      > > > > waking) reflects
      > > > > that which is presented more thoroughly in
      > > material
      > > > > (Hindu, New Age,
      > > > > etc) devoted to meditation.
      > > > > But I'm intrigued by this "Judaic"
      > > understanding on
      > > > > "nothingness".
      > > > >
      > > > > A few weeks back I saw the powerful independent
      > > film
      > > > > "The Believer".
      > > > > I was surprised by the Hasidic understanding of
      > > > > "Nothingness".
      > > > > Apparently "nothingness" is central to
      > > > > fundamentalist Judaism.
      > > > > From their perspective (Hasidic) there is no
      > > > > relationship with God
      > > > > since man is too insignificant to know God. The
      > > > > inspiration for their
      > > > > rituals and practices are thus not based on a
      > > > > "present" relationship
      > > > > with God: one reads Torah, says prayers NOt from
      > > a
      > > > > state of
      > > > > Inspiration (as is found in the Christian
      > > passion
      > > > > "play") but from a
      > > > > sort of legalistic attitude of "just do"...just
      > > > > pray, just eat
      > > > > Kosher....it's the Law!
      > > > >
      > > > > Anyway, this takes a great deal of effort for me
      > > to
      > > > > go into and can
      > > > > only be grappled with in stages.
      > > > > The point is that this conceptualization of
      > > > > "nothingness" is not
      > > > > germane in everyday Christianity and Islam, and
      > > I
      > > > > wondered
      > > > > about "it's" "place" in Judaic spirituality.
      > > > > A prolific contemporary teacher in the Kabbalist
      > > > > tradition is Z'ev
      > > > > ben Shilmon Halevi. I have a couple of his
      > > books, so
      > > > > now I wonder how
      > > > > this Nothingness "thing" is handled in his
      > > writing.
      > > > > I'll excerpt some
      > > > > of his stuff from "School of the Soul".
      > > > >
      > > > > I was left wondering whether that tradition has
      > > such
      > > > > a "radical"
      > > > > perspective on "God".
      > > > > Perhaps someone else has an understanding of
      > > > > "nothingness" taught
      > > > > from the Judaic/kabalist school....
      > > > >
      > > > > CJL
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In
      > > meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
      > > > > "satkartar7"
      > > > > <mi_nok@y...> wrote:
      > > > > > Likewise, the fourteenth century
      > > > > > Kabbalist, Rabbi Joseph ben Shalom
      > > > > > of Barcelona, taught that: in every
      > > transformation
      > > > > of reality, in
      > > > > every
      > > > > > change of form, or every time the
      > > > > > stature of a thing is altered, the
      > > > > > abyss of nothingness is crossed and
      > > > > > for a fleeting mystical moment becomes
      > > visible.
      > > > > The reason it is
      > > > > difficult to
      > > > > > notice this abyss of nothingness is
      > > > > > that, first of all, its appearance is
      > > > > > exceedingly brief. Secondly, our
      > > > > > attention is conditioned to focus only
      > > > > > on things, but the abyss of
      > > > > > nothingness is not a 'thing'.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Consequently, our attention habitually
      > > > > > ignores this no-thing as it
      > > > > > compulsively searches out the next
      > > > > > phenomenon to arise. If, however, we
      > > > > > can train our attention (via
      > > > > > meditation) to remain stable and clear
      > > > > > then all that is required to "point
      > > > > > to" this abyss of nothingness is an
      > > > > > ordinary gesture of the most mundane
      > > > > > kind. This is why Zen students, for
      > > > > > example, who have been ripened
      > > > > > through practice, can attain
      > > > > > Enlightenment simply by seeing a
      > > > > > candle being blown out or hearing
      > > > > > a bird cry.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > In the "intervals"
      > > > > > just before and after the arising and
      > > > > > passing of these phenomena,
      > > > > > Consciousness- without-an-object
      > > > > > stands for a split second unveiled in
      > > > > > all Its nakedness.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > But there are other moments in the
      > > > > > course of our lives in which
      > > > > Consciousness-without-an-object reveals
      > > > > > itself in a more dramatic fashion
      > > > > > and for longer periods of time. One
      > > > > > of these (as Bokar Rinpoche already mentioned)
      > > > > occurs every twenty-
      > > > > four
      > > > > > hours during the transition from the
      > > > > > waking state to sleep. Here it is not
      > > > > > merely a single sound or sight that
      > > > > > "dies" but the entire waking world!
      > > > > >
      > >
      > === message truncated ===
      >
      >
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