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In the Anteroom

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  • Gene Poole
    The Anteroom Welcome to the anteroom... where you already are Beyond that door is the realm we all speak of Some of us speak as tho we are beyond that door But
    Message 1 of 12 , May 26, 2003
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      The Anteroom


      Welcome to the anteroom...
      where you already are

      Beyond that door is the
      realm we all speak of

      Some of us speak as tho
      we are beyond that door

      But if we speak, this is
      where speaking is done

      Beyond the door there
      is no speaking

      Beyond the door there
      is no-one to speak

      Beyond the door there
      is no-one to speak to

      Here in the anteroom we may
      speak to each other

      If any of us speaks with
      pretense of being beyond
      the door, everyone but
      the speaker understands
      that fantasy is being
      woven with words.

      Everyone knows that those
      who speak, in the anteroom,
      are in the anteroom.

      Yes, some of us in the
      anteroom have been beyond
      the door. Some of us spend
      considerable time beyond the
      door.

      Some of us come into the
      anteroom to speak of what
      we see and know, what we
      have, what we have lost,
      when we have gone thru
      the door.

      But anyone who speaks here,
      is in the anteroom. Anyone
      who speaks here, is not
      beyond the door. Anyone who
      speaks here, stating that
      they speak from behind the
      door, is mistaken, and the
      mistake will be pointed out.

      This is the anteroom, and
      we may speak here, of anything.

      We speak of and point to the
      door. We discuss what lies
      beyond the door. Now perhaps
      we can understand, that if
      speaking is being done, that
      the speaker is in the anteroom.

      To be in the anteroom does not
      imply in any way, an inability to
      go thru the door. To speak in the
      anteroom does not in any way,
      qualify or accurately describe or
      explain what is beyond the door.

      Those of us who speak here,
      who know we are in the anteroom,
      know that our words do not
      emanate from beyond the door.

      Some speakers have the habit
      of speaking here in the anteroom,
      as though they are beyond the door.

      Those of us in the anteroom who
      have been thru the door, know
      that there is no speaking beyond
      the door. We may speak here in
      the anteroom, of anything, but
      to speak as tho we are beyond
      while we are here, reveals a
      serious schism in the speaker.

      Those of us who talk back to those
      who speak as tho they are beyond
      the door, are typically answered in
      words that the speaker imagines are
      from beyond the door.

      Wake up, you are in the anteroom;
      here you may speak. You may
      describe immense infinite vistas,
      you may bawl endless tears of
      gratitude, you may rant on and
      on about what concerns you.

      Wake up, speaker. If you speak,
      this is where you are; here you may
      speak.

      Realize that you need not formulate
      your speech into cosmic diatribe, to
      prove you are not here. If you speak,
      this is where you are.



      ==Gene Poole==




      --

      If less is more,
      nothing is everything.
    • Nina
      ... Well-stated, Gene-o-me. Nina
      Message 2 of 12 , May 26, 2003
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        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Poole"
        <gene_poole@q...> wrote:
        > The Anteroom

        Well-stated, Gene-o-me.

        Nina
      • Gene Poole
        ... Tonka-you, Nina! Keep on truckin ... ==GP==
        Message 3 of 12 , May 26, 2003
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          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Nina" <murrkis@y...> wrote:
          > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Poole"
          > <gene_poole@q...> wrote:
          > > The Anteroom
          >
          > Well-stated, Gene-o-me.
          >
          > Nina

          Tonka-you, Nina!


          Keep on truckin'...


          ==GP==
        • jodyrrr
          ... wrote: [snip ... Excellent and brilliant, Geneji! Thank you and bravo! --jody.
          Message 4 of 12 , May 26, 2003
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            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Poole"
            <gene_poole@q...> wrote:

            [snip

            > Realize that you need not formulate
            > your speech into cosmic diatribe, to
            > prove you are not here. If you speak,
            > this is where you are.

            Excellent and brilliant, Geneji! Thank you
            and bravo!

            --jody.
          • mlcanow
            ... Dear Gene, i like this metaphor, very much. Very interesting while trying to explain, understand or think that there is a me that was and is
            Message 5 of 12 , May 26, 2003
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              --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Poole"
              <gene_poole@q...> wrote:
              > The Anteroom
              >
              >
              > Welcome to the anteroom...
              > where you already are
              >
              > Beyond that door is the
              > realm we all speak of
              >
              > Some of us speak as tho
              > we are beyond that door
              >
              > But if we speak, this is
              > where speaking is done
              >
              > Beyond the door there
              > is no speaking
              >
              > Beyond the door there
              > is no-one to speak
              >
              > Beyond the door there
              > is no-one to speak to
              >
              > Here in the anteroom we may
              > speak to each other
              >
              > If any of us speaks with
              > pretense of being beyond
              > the door, everyone but
              > the speaker understands
              > that fantasy is being
              > woven with words.
              >
              > Everyone knows that those
              > who speak, in the anteroom,
              > are in the anteroom.
              >
              > Yes, some of us in the
              > anteroom have been beyond
              > the door. Some of us spend
              > considerable time beyond the
              > door.
              >
              > Some of us come into the
              > anteroom to speak of what
              > we see and know, what we
              > have, what we have lost,
              > when we have gone thru
              > the door.
              >
              > But anyone who speaks here,
              > is in the anteroom. Anyone
              > who speaks here, is not
              > beyond the door. Anyone who
              > speaks here, stating that
              > they speak from behind the
              > door, is mistaken, and the
              > mistake will be pointed out.
              >
              > This is the anteroom, and
              > we may speak here, of anything.
              >
              > We speak of and point to the
              > door. We discuss what lies
              > beyond the door. Now perhaps
              > we can understand, that if
              > speaking is being done, that
              > the speaker is in the anteroom.
              >
              > To be in the anteroom does not
              > imply in any way, an inability to
              > go thru the door. To speak in the
              > anteroom does not in any way,
              > qualify or accurately describe or
              > explain what is beyond the door.
              >
              > Those of us who speak here,
              > who know we are in the anteroom,
              > know that our words do not
              > emanate from beyond the door.
              >
              > Some speakers have the habit
              > of speaking here in the anteroom,
              > as though they are beyond the door.
              >
              > Those of us in the anteroom who
              > have been thru the door, know
              > that there is no speaking beyond
              > the door. We may speak here in
              > the anteroom, of anything, but
              > to speak as tho we are beyond
              > while we are here, reveals a
              > serious schism in the speaker.
              >
              > Those of us who talk back to those
              > who speak as tho they are beyond
              > the door, are typically answered in
              > words that the speaker imagines are
              > from beyond the door.
              >
              > Wake up, you are in the anteroom;
              > here you may speak. You may
              > describe immense infinite vistas,
              > you may bawl endless tears of
              > gratitude, you may rant on and
              > on about what concerns you.
              >
              > Wake up, speaker. If you speak,
              > this is where you are; here you may
              > speak.
              >
              > Realize that you need not formulate
              > your speech into cosmic diatribe, to
              > prove you are not here. If you speak,
              > this is where you are.
              >
              >
              >
              > ==Gene Poole==
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > --
              >
              > If less is more,
              > nothing is everything.

              Dear Gene,
              i like this metaphor, very much. Very interesting while trying to
              explain, understand or think that there is a me that was <there> and
              is <here>. But what about knowing that this <me> is as ephimeral as
              the furniture in the anteroom?

              love,
              maria luisa
            • medit8ionsociety
              - Gene Poole ... Revelation 3:20 reads: Behold I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will
              Message 6 of 12 , May 26, 2003
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                -"Gene Poole"
                > <gene_poole@q...> wrote:
                > > The Anteroom
                > >
                > >
                > > Welcome to the anteroom...
                > > where you already are
                > >
                > > Beyond that door is the
                > > realm we all speak of
                > >
                > > Some of us speak as tho
                > > we are beyond that door
                > >
                > > But if we speak, this is
                > > where speaking is done
                > >
                > > Beyond the door there
                > > is no speaking
                > >
                > > Beyond the door there
                > > is no-one to speak
                > >
                > > Beyond the door there
                > > is no-one to speak to
                > >
                > > Here in the anteroom we may
                > > speak to each other
                > >
                > > If any of us speaks with
                > > pretense of being beyond
                > > the door, everyone but
                > > the speaker understands
                > > that fantasy is being
                > > woven with words.
                > >
                > > Everyone knows that those
                > > who speak, in the anteroom,
                > > are in the anteroom.
                > >
                > > Yes, some of us in the
                > > anteroom have been beyond
                > > the door. Some of us spend
                > > considerable time beyond the
                > > door.
                > >
                > > Some of us come into the
                > > anteroom to speak of what
                > > we see and know, what we
                > > have, what we have lost,
                > > when we have gone thru
                > > the door.
                > >
                > > But anyone who speaks here,
                > > is in the anteroom. Anyone
                > > who speaks here, is not
                > > beyond the door. Anyone who
                > > speaks here, stating that
                > > they speak from behind the
                > > door, is mistaken, and the
                > > mistake will be pointed out.
                > >
                > > This is the anteroom, and
                > > we may speak here, of anything.
                > >
                > > We speak of and point to the
                > > door. We discuss what lies
                > > beyond the door. Now perhaps
                > > we can understand, that if
                > > speaking is being done, that
                > > the speaker is in the anteroom.
                > >
                > > To be in the anteroom does not
                > > imply in any way, an inability to
                > > go thru the door. To speak in the
                > > anteroom does not in any way,
                > > qualify or accurately describe or
                > > explain what is beyond the door.
                > >
                > > Those of us who speak here,
                > > who know we are in the anteroom,
                > > know that our words do not
                > > emanate from beyond the door.
                > >
                > > Some speakers have the habit
                > > of speaking here in the anteroom,
                > > as though they are beyond the door.
                > >
                > > Those of us in the anteroom who
                > > have been thru the door, know
                > > that there is no speaking beyond
                > > the door. We may speak here in
                > > the anteroom, of anything, but
                > > to speak as tho we are beyond
                > > while we are here, reveals a
                > > serious schism in the speaker.
                > >
                > > Those of us who talk back to those
                > > who speak as tho they are beyond
                > > the door, are typically answered in
                > > words that the speaker imagines are
                > > from beyond the door.
                > >
                > > Wake up, you are in the anteroom;
                > > here you may speak. You may
                > > describe immense infinite vistas,
                > > you may bawl endless tears of
                > > gratitude, you may rant on and
                > > on about what concerns you.
                > >
                > > Wake up, speaker. If you speak,
                > > this is where you are; here you may
                > > speak.
                > >
                > > Realize that you need not formulate
                > > your speech into cosmic diatribe, to
                > > prove you are not here. If you speak,
                > > this is where you are.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ==Gene Poole==
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > --
                > >
                > > If less is more,
                > > nothing is everything.
                >

                Revelation 3:20 reads: "Behold I stand at the door, and
                knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I
                will come in to him, and will dine with him, and he with
                me."

                So there isn't just no speech, they ain't got no food either:-)
              • Gene Poole
                ... [Gasp!] Golly... someone referred to my post as a metaphor ... {sobbing in relief}... I knew it would happen some day... if I waited and persisted long
                Message 7 of 12 , May 26, 2003
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                  >"mlcanow" <mlcanow@y...> wrote:
                  > > "Gene Poole" > <gene_poole@q...> wrote:

                  > > The Anteroom
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Welcome to the anteroom...
                  > > where you already are
                  > >
                  > > Beyond that door is the
                  > > realm we all speak of
                  > >
                  > > Some of us speak as tho
                  > > we are beyond that door
                  > >
                  > > But if we speak, this is
                  > > where speaking is done
                  > >
                  > > Beyond the door there
                  > > is no speaking
                  > >
                  > > Beyond the door there
                  > > is no-one to speak
                  > >
                  > > Beyond the door there
                  > > is no-one to speak to
                  > >
                  > > Here in the anteroom we may
                  > > speak to each other
                  > >
                  > > If any of us speaks with
                  > > pretense of being beyond
                  > > the door, everyone but
                  > > the speaker understands
                  > > that fantasy is being
                  > > woven with words.
                  > >
                  > > Everyone knows that those
                  > > who speak, in the anteroom,
                  > > are in the anteroom.
                  > >
                  > > Yes, some of us in the
                  > > anteroom have been beyond
                  > > the door. Some of us spend
                  > > considerable time beyond the
                  > > door.
                  > >
                  > > Some of us come into the
                  > > anteroom to speak of what
                  > > we see and know, what we
                  > > have, what we have lost,
                  > > when we have gone thru
                  > > the door.
                  > >
                  > > But anyone who speaks here,
                  > > is in the anteroom. Anyone
                  > > who speaks here, is not
                  > > beyond the door. Anyone who
                  > > speaks here, stating that
                  > > they speak from behind the
                  > > door, is mistaken, and the
                  > > mistake will be pointed out.
                  > >
                  > > This is the anteroom, and
                  > > we may speak here, of anything.
                  > >
                  > > We speak of and point to the
                  > > door. We discuss what lies
                  > > beyond the door. Now perhaps
                  > > we can understand, that if
                  > > speaking is being done, that
                  > > the speaker is in the anteroom.
                  > >
                  > > To be in the anteroom does not
                  > > imply in any way, an inability to
                  > > go thru the door. To speak in the
                  > > anteroom does not in any way,
                  > > qualify or accurately describe or
                  > > explain what is beyond the door.
                  > >
                  > > Those of us who speak here,
                  > > who know we are in the anteroom,
                  > > know that our words do not
                  > > emanate from beyond the door.
                  > >
                  > > Some speakers have the habit
                  > > of speaking here in the anteroom,
                  > > as though they are beyond the door.
                  > >
                  > > Those of us in the anteroom who
                  > > have been thru the door, know
                  > > that there is no speaking beyond
                  > > the door. We may speak here in
                  > > the anteroom, of anything, but
                  > > to speak as tho we are beyond
                  > > while we are here, reveals a
                  > > serious schism in the speaker.
                  > >
                  > > Those of us who talk back to those
                  > > who speak as tho they are beyond
                  > > the door, are typically answered in
                  > > words that the speaker imagines are
                  > > from beyond the door.
                  > >
                  > > Wake up, you are in the anteroom;
                  > > here you may speak. You may
                  > > describe immense infinite vistas,
                  > > you may bawl endless tears of
                  > > gratitude, you may rant on and
                  > > on about what concerns you.
                  > >
                  > > Wake up, speaker. If you speak,
                  > > this is where you are; here you may
                  > > speak.
                  > >
                  > > Realize that you need not formulate
                  > > your speech into cosmic diatribe, to
                  > > prove you are not here. If you speak,
                  > > this is where you are.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ==Gene Poole==
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --
                  > >
                  > > If less is more,
                  > > nothing is everything.

                  > Dear Gene,
                  > i like this metaphor, very much. Very interesting while trying to
                  > explain, understand or think that there is a me that was <there> and
                  > is <here>. But what about knowing that this <me> is as ephimeral as
                  > the furniture in the anteroom?
                  >
                  > love,
                  > maria luisa

                  [Gasp!] Golly... someone referred to my post
                  as a 'metaphor'... {sobbing in relief}... I knew
                  it would happen some day... if I waited and
                  persisted long enough... thank you!

                  Well, Maria Luisa, it is like this:

                  From my POV, there is much 'utility' value in
                  using language, EVEN THO I know that language
                  is NOT what it describes (unless we are talking
                  about language... in which case, it can).

                  So, in this modern, now-a-go-go age we live
                  in, where there is a Guru on call in most locales,
                  and the standard of 'personal acceptability'
                  threatens to require signed affidavits signifying
                  one's degree of 'spiritual advancement', language
                  has gotten pretty dicey... that is to say, what it
                  'means' to say 'I' in the first person (opps! there
                  is no person!), or to slip up in one of many other
                  ways, thus exposing the stain on the brain, that
                  will require much more Advaitic washing, before
                  purity of absolute emptiness can be had.

                  So I have this idea, that for instance, we can
                  talk about Italy, without having to go there,
                  or talk about death, without having to die,
                  to gain those credentials. This means that
                  I can speak of Italy, and unless I falsely
                  claim to have been there, there should be
                  no problem.

                  So the 'modern' tendency to take words
                  as proof, or measure, of 'spiritual awareness',
                  can be 'turned off', if we simply take
                  permission to speak as we like, and this
                  takes away permission to be criticized for
                  falling short of anyone's standards.

                  This seems like such a simple thing!

                  Now, to your personal sense of 'being
                  ephemeral'... 'knowing' (as you say)
                  is your own localized experience, yes?

                  So it is OK for you to have that, in my
                  opinion.

                  For myself, the transition from anteroom
                  to and from beyond, is utterly transparent
                  now. Like, if a cop asks for my ID, I can
                  actually give it to him. I am aware that
                  people assume (know, or feel) many
                  different ways about their 'existence', and
                  that language in itself, contrary to the
                  story of Aladdin's cave, will not either bind
                  or liberate me, the cop, or you.

                  I can buy or create any number of fake
                  university diplomas, and hang them on
                  my wall, or I can graduate MCL and
                  never let anyone know. In either case,
                  words on paper do not carry the weight
                  of actual experience; there is no proof,
                  and there is no evidence of fraud, in
                  words. Only solid verifiable evidence,
                  such as the proof of mortality provided
                  by death via crucifixion, will serve to
                  either prove or deny any claims made...

                  In the meantime, we can all just take it
                  easy on each other.

                  Sure... as primates, we spend our free
                  time, grooming (read: picking at) each-
                  other. It is a very natural thing to do,
                  for us of the talking-tribe, to attempt
                  to help each other clear up misunderstandings.

                  I think we can draw the line, between that
                  and condemnation, based on words alone.


                  ==Gene Poole==

                  And He said the word,
                  and we ate Him. And
                  the word was 'Hot Dog'!
                • G
                  ... and ... ephimeral as ... G: great post...... unfortunately words are the medium now ..... if one could directly access anothers consciousness
                  Message 8 of 12 , May 27, 2003
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                    --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Gene
                    Poole" <gene_poole@q...> wrote:
                    > >"mlcanow" <mlcanow@y...> wrote:
                    > > > "Gene Poole" > <gene_poole@q...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > > The Anteroom
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Welcome to the anteroom...
                    > > > where you already are
                    > > >
                    > > > Beyond that door is the
                    > > > realm we all speak of
                    > > >
                    > > > Some of us speak as tho
                    > > > we are beyond that door
                    > > >
                    > > > But if we speak, this is
                    > > > where speaking is done
                    > > >
                    > > > Beyond the door there
                    > > > is no speaking
                    > > >
                    > > > Beyond the door there
                    > > > is no-one to speak
                    > > >
                    > > > Beyond the door there
                    > > > is no-one to speak to
                    > > >
                    > > > Here in the anteroom we may
                    > > > speak to each other
                    > > >
                    > > > If any of us speaks with
                    > > > pretense of being beyond
                    > > > the door, everyone but
                    > > > the speaker understands
                    > > > that fantasy is being
                    > > > woven with words.
                    > > >
                    > > > Everyone knows that those
                    > > > who speak, in the anteroom,
                    > > > are in the anteroom.
                    > > >
                    > > > Yes, some of us in the
                    > > > anteroom have been beyond
                    > > > the door. Some of us spend
                    > > > considerable time beyond the
                    > > > door.
                    > > >
                    > > > Some of us come into the
                    > > > anteroom to speak of what
                    > > > we see and know, what we
                    > > > have, what we have lost,
                    > > > when we have gone thru
                    > > > the door.
                    > > >
                    > > > But anyone who speaks here,
                    > > > is in the anteroom. Anyone
                    > > > who speaks here, is not
                    > > > beyond the door. Anyone who
                    > > > speaks here, stating that
                    > > > they speak from behind the
                    > > > door, is mistaken, and the
                    > > > mistake will be pointed out.
                    > > >
                    > > > This is the anteroom, and
                    > > > we may speak here, of anything.
                    > > >
                    > > > We speak of and point to the
                    > > > door. We discuss what lies
                    > > > beyond the door. Now perhaps
                    > > > we can understand, that if
                    > > > speaking is being done, that
                    > > > the speaker is in the anteroom.
                    > > >
                    > > > To be in the anteroom does not
                    > > > imply in any way, an inability to
                    > > > go thru the door. To speak in the
                    > > > anteroom does not in any way,
                    > > > qualify or accurately describe or
                    > > > explain what is beyond the door.
                    > > >
                    > > > Those of us who speak here,
                    > > > who know we are in the anteroom,
                    > > > know that our words do not
                    > > > emanate from beyond the door.
                    > > >
                    > > > Some speakers have the habit
                    > > > of speaking here in the anteroom,
                    > > > as though they are beyond the door.
                    > > >
                    > > > Those of us in the anteroom who
                    > > > have been thru the door, know
                    > > > that there is no speaking beyond
                    > > > the door. We may speak here in
                    > > > the anteroom, of anything, but
                    > > > to speak as tho we are beyond
                    > > > while we are here, reveals a
                    > > > serious schism in the speaker.
                    > > >
                    > > > Those of us who talk back to those
                    > > > who speak as tho they are beyond
                    > > > the door, are typically answered in
                    > > > words that the speaker imagines are
                    > > > from beyond the door.
                    > > >
                    > > > Wake up, you are in the anteroom;
                    > > > here you may speak. You may
                    > > > describe immense infinite vistas,
                    > > > you may bawl endless tears of
                    > > > gratitude, you may rant on and
                    > > > on about what concerns you.
                    > > >
                    > > > Wake up, speaker. If you speak,
                    > > > this is where you are; here you may
                    > > > speak.
                    > > >
                    > > > Realize that you need not formulate
                    > > > your speech into cosmic diatribe, to
                    > > > prove you are not here. If you speak,
                    > > > this is where you are.
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > ==Gene Poole==
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > --
                    > > >
                    > > > If less is more,
                    > > > nothing is everything.
                    >
                    > > Dear Gene,
                    > > i like this metaphor, very much. Very interesting while trying to
                    > > explain, understand or think that there is a me that was
                    <there> and
                    > > is <here>. But what about knowing that this <me> is as
                    ephimeral as
                    > > the furniture in the anteroom?
                    > >
                    > > love,
                    > > maria luisa
                    >
                    > [Gasp!] Golly... someone referred to my post
                    > as a 'metaphor'... {sobbing in relief}... I knew
                    > it would happen some day... if I waited and
                    > persisted long enough... thank you!
                    >
                    > Well, Maria Luisa, it is like this:
                    >
                    > From my POV, there is much 'utility' value in
                    > using language, EVEN THO I know that language
                    > is NOT what it describes (unless we are talking
                    > about language... in which case, it can).
                    >
                    > So, in this modern, now-a-go-go age we live
                    > in, where there is a Guru on call in most locales,
                    > and the standard of 'personal acceptability'
                    > threatens to require signed affidavits signifying
                    > one's degree of 'spiritual advancement', language
                    > has gotten pretty dicey... that is to say, what it
                    > 'means' to say 'I' in the first person (opps! there
                    > is no person!), or to slip up in one of many other
                    > ways, thus exposing the stain on the brain, that
                    > will require much more Advaitic washing, before
                    > purity of absolute emptiness can be had.
                    >
                    > So I have this idea, that for instance, we can
                    > talk about Italy, without having to go there,
                    > or talk about death, without having to die,
                    > to gain those credentials. This means that
                    > I can speak of Italy, and unless I falsely
                    > claim to have been there, there should be
                    > no problem.
                    >
                    > So the 'modern' tendency to take words
                    > as proof, or measure, of 'spiritual awareness',
                    > can be 'turned off', if we simply take
                    > permission to speak as we like, and this
                    > takes away permission to be criticized for
                    > falling short of anyone's standards.
                    >
                    > This seems like such a simple thing!
                    >
                    > Now, to your personal sense of 'being
                    > ephemeral'... 'knowing' (as you say)
                    > is your own localized experience, yes?
                    >
                    > So it is OK for you to have that, in my
                    > opinion.
                    >
                    > For myself, the transition from anteroom
                    > to and from beyond, is utterly transparent
                    > now. Like, if a cop asks for my ID, I can
                    > actually give it to him. I am aware that
                    > people assume (know, or feel) many
                    > different ways about their 'existence', and
                    > that language in itself, contrary to the
                    > story of Aladdin's cave, will not either bind
                    > or liberate me, the cop, or you.
                    >
                    > I can buy or create any number of fake
                    > university diplomas, and hang them on
                    > my wall, or I can graduate MCL and
                    > never let anyone know. In either case,
                    > words on paper do not carry the weight
                    > of actual experience; there is no proof,
                    > and there is no evidence of fraud, in
                    > words. Only solid verifiable evidence,
                    > such as the proof of mortality provided
                    > by death via crucifixion, will serve to
                    > either prove or deny any claims made...
                    >
                    > In the meantime, we can all just take it
                    > easy on each other.
                    >
                    > Sure... as primates, we spend our free
                    > time, grooming (read: picking at) each-
                    > other. It is a very natural thing to do,
                    > for us of the talking-tribe, to attempt
                    > to help each other clear up misunderstandings.
                    >
                    > I think we can draw the line, between that
                    > and condemnation, based on words alone.
                    >
                    >
                    > ==Gene Poole==
                    >
                    > And He said the word,
                    > and we ate Him. And
                    > the word was 'Hot Dog'!


                    G: great post......

                    unfortunately words are the medium now ..... if one could directly
                    access anothers consciousness then the proof or not would be
                    immediate........ until that time we are still stuck in attempting to
                    share what the Reality is of where the consciousness is at any
                    given moment through the limited medium of words .......

                    words ie: spoken vibrational patterns of conceptualized
                    experience, which sets up a pattern to be interpreted within
                    anothers range of expression and foundational ideations ......
                    which then is absorbed or reflected and translates out as either
                    accepted and grasped or aversion and denied , depending on
                    the awareness and standing in the continuum of mind and their
                    collected knowledge through individual experiential life ......
                    (how about that for a long winded interpretation of , words and
                    their life as expression - yes they can be endless )

                    it appears the advaita police will just have to lock me up and
                    throw away the keys .....

                    the transient while not being the ulitmate truth is still a part of it
                    being the moving adventure within a vehicle that participates in a
                    divisionary experience with all the richness that the 5 senses
                    allow ie: the other side of the singular coin of existence/Being
                    ......

                    it is not the transient experience that is the problem but the
                    identifications within the limited role that bring about a feeling of
                    bondage, which has no place except within the mental
                    framework of identifying with situations or words or the body
                    vehicle ......

                    this post isn't for you Gene but for those that are still seeking
                    and attempting to unwravel the knots of desire/aversion......
                    Once one has stepped out of the bound framework everything is
                    simply accepted as it is for the value that it has......... yes even
                    the physical form and adventure has it's place...... although it
                    may develop holes when not balanced with consciousness of
                    the Whole.......

                    Another beautiful Morning
                    how wonderful is the divisionary experience of the Whole .....
                    it's fragrance blooms - it's aspects unending
                    the mystery is amazing in it's Being......

                    What choice gifts we have if only seen .....
                    Love/Life the seed of Potential gives of itself ........
                    it divides and subdivides itself for the play to happen....
                    yet nothing is lost, nothing is lessened ......

                    How Great is this Paradoxical Mystery ......
                    What wonders does this cognition unlock......
                    It has always been ...... Has never changed ..... Is Ever Pure....
                    Ever Present ...... Whole .....

                    How could it have been passed over for so long a time ?
                    Why were suffering and fear and the great illusion for a time
                    the norm - the 'reality' (?)
                    Ah i guess this is why it is called aptly maya (the illusion) ....

                    The dreamer has nothing to fear from the dream,
                    whether it is the shorter nightly dream or the longer one
                    of the day.......

                    Awakening one Knows the dream for what it IS and IS Not,
                    and thereby appreciates it in a whole new light .....
                    The dream was never the problem but the taking of it to be
                    a permanence of endings or beginnings.....

                    Nothing comes and goes except ideas ......
                    The Sun is here ...... you are here...... i am here.......
                    the Substance of it all is ONE and the aspects varied and
                    unique.........
                    What a beautiful pot of savories......

                    shanti om
                  • dan330033
                    ... Or as Neo might have said to Trinity in Matrix II: Knock and I ll come into you, and will massage your heart, and it will beat in me, and I in it. Love,
                    Message 9 of 12 , May 27, 2003
                    • 0 Attachment
                      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
                      <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                      > -"Gene Poole"
                      > > <gene_poole@q...> wrote:
                      > > > The Anteroom
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Welcome to the anteroom...
                      > > > where you already are
                      > > >
                      > > > Beyond that door is the
                      > > > realm we all speak of
                      > > >
                      > > > Some of us speak as tho
                      > > > we are beyond that door
                      > > >
                      > > > But if we speak, this is
                      > > > where speaking is done
                      > > >
                      > > > Beyond the door there
                      > > > is no speaking
                      > > >
                      > > > Beyond the door there
                      > > > is no-one to speak
                      > > >
                      > > > Beyond the door there
                      > > > is no-one to speak to
                      > > >
                      > > > Here in the anteroom we may
                      > > > speak to each other
                      > > >
                      > > > If any of us speaks with
                      > > > pretense of being beyond
                      > > > the door, everyone but
                      > > > the speaker understands
                      > > > that fantasy is being
                      > > > woven with words.
                      > > >
                      > > > Everyone knows that those
                      > > > who speak, in the anteroom,
                      > > > are in the anteroom.
                      > > >
                      > > > Yes, some of us in the
                      > > > anteroom have been beyond
                      > > > the door. Some of us spend
                      > > > considerable time beyond the
                      > > > door.
                      > > >
                      > > > Some of us come into the
                      > > > anteroom to speak of what
                      > > > we see and know, what we
                      > > > have, what we have lost,
                      > > > when we have gone thru
                      > > > the door.
                      > > >
                      > > > But anyone who speaks here,
                      > > > is in the anteroom. Anyone
                      > > > who speaks here, is not
                      > > > beyond the door. Anyone who
                      > > > speaks here, stating that
                      > > > they speak from behind the
                      > > > door, is mistaken, and the
                      > > > mistake will be pointed out.
                      > > >
                      > > > This is the anteroom, and
                      > > > we may speak here, of anything.
                      > > >
                      > > > We speak of and point to the
                      > > > door. We discuss what lies
                      > > > beyond the door. Now perhaps
                      > > > we can understand, that if
                      > > > speaking is being done, that
                      > > > the speaker is in the anteroom.
                      > > >
                      > > > To be in the anteroom does not
                      > > > imply in any way, an inability to
                      > > > go thru the door. To speak in the
                      > > > anteroom does not in any way,
                      > > > qualify or accurately describe or
                      > > > explain what is beyond the door.
                      > > >
                      > > > Those of us who speak here,
                      > > > who know we are in the anteroom,
                      > > > know that our words do not
                      > > > emanate from beyond the door.
                      > > >
                      > > > Some speakers have the habit
                      > > > of speaking here in the anteroom,
                      > > > as though they are beyond the door.
                      > > >
                      > > > Those of us in the anteroom who
                      > > > have been thru the door, know
                      > > > that there is no speaking beyond
                      > > > the door. We may speak here in
                      > > > the anteroom, of anything, but
                      > > > to speak as tho we are beyond
                      > > > while we are here, reveals a
                      > > > serious schism in the speaker.
                      > > >
                      > > > Those of us who talk back to those
                      > > > who speak as tho they are beyond
                      > > > the door, are typically answered in
                      > > > words that the speaker imagines are
                      > > > from beyond the door.
                      > > >
                      > > > Wake up, you are in the anteroom;
                      > > > here you may speak. You may
                      > > > describe immense infinite vistas,
                      > > > you may bawl endless tears of
                      > > > gratitude, you may rant on and
                      > > > on about what concerns you.
                      > > >
                      > > > Wake up, speaker. If you speak,
                      > > > this is where you are; here you may
                      > > > speak.
                      > > >
                      > > > Realize that you need not formulate
                      > > > your speech into cosmic diatribe, to
                      > > > prove you are not here. If you speak,
                      > > > this is where you are.
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > ==Gene Poole==
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > --
                      > > >
                      > > > If less is more,
                      > > > nothing is everything.
                      > >
                      >
                      > Revelation 3:20 reads: "Behold I stand at the door, and
                      > knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I
                      > will come in to him, and will dine with him, and he with
                      > me."
                      >
                      > So there isn't just no speech, they ain't got no food either:-)

                      Or as Neo might have said to Trinity in Matrix II:

                      Knock and I'll come into you, and will massage your heart,
                      and it will beat in me, and I in it.

                      Love,
                      Dan
                    • mlcanow
                      ... to ... and ... as ... *....Hi Gene, its always been a pleasure to read your posts. Your use of language is wonderful. I wish i could put my own ability in
                      Message 10 of 12 , May 27, 2003
                      • 0 Attachment
                        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Poole"
                        <gene_poole@q...> wrote:
                        > >"mlcanow" <mlcanow@y...> wrote:
                        > > > "Gene Poole" > <gene_poole@q...> wrote:
                        >
                        > > > The Anteroom
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Welcome to the anteroom...
                        > > > where you already are
                        > > >
                        > > > Beyond that door is the
                        > > > realm we all speak of
                        > > >
                        > > > Some of us speak as tho
                        > > > we are beyond that door
                        > > >
                        > > > But if we speak, this is
                        > > > where speaking is done
                        > > >
                        > > > Beyond the door there
                        > > > is no speaking
                        > > >
                        > > > Beyond the door there
                        > > > is no-one to speak
                        > > >
                        > > > Beyond the door there
                        > > > is no-one to speak to
                        > > >
                        > > > Here in the anteroom we may
                        > > > speak to each other
                        > > >
                        > > > If any of us speaks with
                        > > > pretense of being beyond
                        > > > the door, everyone but
                        > > > the speaker understands
                        > > > that fantasy is being
                        > > > woven with words.
                        > > >
                        > > > Everyone knows that those
                        > > > who speak, in the anteroom,
                        > > > are in the anteroom.
                        > > >
                        > > > Yes, some of us in the
                        > > > anteroom have been beyond
                        > > > the door. Some of us spend
                        > > > considerable time beyond the
                        > > > door.
                        > > >
                        > > > Some of us come into the
                        > > > anteroom to speak of what
                        > > > we see and know, what we
                        > > > have, what we have lost,
                        > > > when we have gone thru
                        > > > the door.
                        > > >
                        > > > But anyone who speaks here,
                        > > > is in the anteroom. Anyone
                        > > > who speaks here, is not
                        > > > beyond the door. Anyone who
                        > > > speaks here, stating that
                        > > > they speak from behind the
                        > > > door, is mistaken, and the
                        > > > mistake will be pointed out.
                        > > >
                        > > > This is the anteroom, and
                        > > > we may speak here, of anything.
                        > > >
                        > > > We speak of and point to the
                        > > > door. We discuss what lies
                        > > > beyond the door. Now perhaps
                        > > > we can understand, that if
                        > > > speaking is being done, that
                        > > > the speaker is in the anteroom.
                        > > >
                        > > > To be in the anteroom does not
                        > > > imply in any way, an inability to
                        > > > go thru the door. To speak in the
                        > > > anteroom does not in any way,
                        > > > qualify or accurately describe or
                        > > > explain what is beyond the door.
                        > > >
                        > > > Those of us who speak here,
                        > > > who know we are in the anteroom,
                        > > > know that our words do not
                        > > > emanate from beyond the door.
                        > > >
                        > > > Some speakers have the habit
                        > > > of speaking here in the anteroom,
                        > > > as though they are beyond the door.
                        > > >
                        > > > Those of us in the anteroom who
                        > > > have been thru the door, know
                        > > > that there is no speaking beyond
                        > > > the door. We may speak here in
                        > > > the anteroom, of anything, but
                        > > > to speak as tho we are beyond
                        > > > while we are here, reveals a
                        > > > serious schism in the speaker.
                        > > >
                        > > > Those of us who talk back to those
                        > > > who speak as tho they are beyond
                        > > > the door, are typically answered in
                        > > > words that the speaker imagines are
                        > > > from beyond the door.
                        > > >
                        > > > Wake up, you are in the anteroom;
                        > > > here you may speak. You may
                        > > > describe immense infinite vistas,
                        > > > you may bawl endless tears of
                        > > > gratitude, you may rant on and
                        > > > on about what concerns you.
                        > > >
                        > > > Wake up, speaker. If you speak,
                        > > > this is where you are; here you may
                        > > > speak.
                        > > >
                        > > > Realize that you need not formulate
                        > > > your speech into cosmic diatribe, to
                        > > > prove you are not here. If you speak,
                        > > > this is where you are.
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > ==Gene Poole==
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > --
                        > > >
                        > > > If less is more,
                        > > > nothing is everything.
                        >
                        > > Dear Gene,
                        > > i like this metaphor, very much. Very interesting while trying
                        to
                        > > explain, understand or think that there is a me that was <there>
                        and
                        > > is <here>. But what about knowing that this <me> is as ephimeral
                        as
                        > > the furniture in the anteroom?
                        > >
                        > > love,
                        > > maria luisa
                        >
                        > [Gasp!] Golly... someone referred to my post
                        > as a 'metaphor'... {sobbing in relief}... I knew
                        > it would happen some day... if I waited and
                        > persisted long enough... thank you!


                        *....Hi Gene,
                        its always been a pleasure to read your posts.
                        Your use of language is wonderful. I wish i could put my own ability
                        in english. In spanish i have no problems. So many times my words
                        have been misunderstood in this group, as well as many things i've
                        read here have lacked of good comprehension from my side.
                        And let me say that i have never doubted that what you say comes
                        sincerely from your own understanding. You know what you are talking
                        about. When i placed the question, it was not for you, it just
                        appeared, and maybe others that are reading and hadn't been through
                        the door will benefit from it.


                        > Well, Maria Luisa, it is like this:
                        >
                        > From my POV, there is much 'utility' value in
                        > using language, EVEN THO I know that language
                        > is NOT what it describes (unless we are talking
                        > about language... in which case, it can).
                        >
                        > So, in this modern, now-a-go-go age we live
                        > in, where there is a Guru on call in most locales,
                        > and the standard of 'personal acceptability'
                        > threatens to require signed affidavits signifying
                        > one's degree of 'spiritual advancement', language
                        > has gotten pretty dicey... that is to say, what it
                        > 'means' to say 'I' in the first person (opps! there
                        > is no person!), or to slip up in one of many other
                        > ways, thus exposing the stain on the brain, that
                        > will require much more Advaitic washing, before
                        > purity of absolute emptiness can be had.
                        >
                        > So I have this idea, that for instance, we can
                        > talk about Italy, without having to go there,
                        > or talk about death, without having to die,
                        > to gain those credentials. This means that
                        > I can speak of Italy, and unless I falsely
                        > claim to have been there, there should be
                        > no problem.
                        >
                        > So the 'modern' tendency to take words
                        > as proof, or measure, of 'spiritual awareness',
                        > can be 'turned off', if we simply take
                        > permission to speak as we like, and this
                        > takes away permission to be criticized for
                        > falling short of anyone's standards.
                        >
                        > This seems like such a simple thing!
                        >
                        > Now, to your personal sense of 'being
                        > ephemeral'... 'knowing' (as you say)
                        > is your own localized experience, yes?

                        *.....Well, Gene, one thing is to know, and another is to be. The
                        latter contains the former. (More words.)
                        I know that what i conceive about me is just a continuum of
                        perceptions that work together among what we call time, to form this
                        personality. I know that all that i see, feel, touch, savour, etc,
                        are perceptions that produce the effect of the world and me living
                        in it. I know this, i understand this. So, from that point on, i
                        have to continuously accept this fact, that i am no more than any
                        other thing, as an entity. But! as a whole, it is intuited, known,
                        understood or grasped, whatever, that all these phenomena arises
                        from Me, and that I arise from that which is behind the door.
                        Really, i do not find enough vocabulary or the appropriate words to
                        express these, but i am sure that at least you understand what is
                        meant. That i am ephemeral? well, maybe i can say so at two in the
                        morning, being very sleepy and peaceful. Right now, beginning the
                        day, i feel no ephemeral, i feel energy for going through the day,
                        until another two a.m. when i will be tyred enough to be alleviated,
                        released from the need of going through another day, and so on. The
                        word ephemeral may not be accurate, but i don't know what word may
                        fit here. And it's not about going to the dictionary endlessly,
                        ufff! too tyring.


                        >
                        > So it is OK for you to have that, in my
                        > opinion.

                        *......Being explained the above, what do you think i have? What
                        that?

                        >
                        > For myself, the transition from anteroom
                        > to and from beyond, is utterly transparent
                        > now.

                        *.....beautiful

                        Like, if a cop asks for my ID, I can
                        > actually give it to him. I am aware that
                        > people assume (know, or feel) many
                        > different ways about their 'existence', and
                        > that language in itself, contrary to the
                        > story of Aladdin's cave, will not either bind
                        > or liberate me, the cop, or you.
                        >
                        > I can buy or create any number of fake
                        > university diplomas, and hang them on
                        > my wall, or I can graduate MCL and
                        > never let anyone know. In either case,
                        > words on paper do not carry the weight
                        > of actual experience; there is no proof,
                        > and there is no evidence of fraud, in
                        > words. Only solid verifiable evidence,
                        > such as the proof of mortality provided
                        > by death via crucifixion, will serve to
                        > either prove or deny any claims made...

                        *.......i can see what you mean. Mortality of the flesh needs no
                        proof. We are all pretty sure that this will come any day. What
                        needs to be proven, as in the case of Jesus being crucified, is not
                        mortality, but resurrection, the eternity of Being. Don't you agree?
                        If not, would you please explain or ellaborate what you mean by
                        these words?


                        >
                        > In the meantime, we can all just take it
                        > easy on each other.

                        *.....yes, on each other and on ourselves.

                        >
                        > Sure... as primates, we spend our free
                        > time, grooming (read: picking at) each-
                        > other. It is a very natural thing to do,
                        > for us of the talking-tribe,

                        *.......you make me smile.


                        to attempt
                        > to help each other clear up misunderstandings.

                        *....yes, the best part of this life is to share the clarity, and
                        when in silence, much better. Overwhelming.

                        >
                        > I think we can draw the line, between that
                        > and condemnation, based on words alone.


                        *.....sorry, but didn't get the idea on these phrase.

                        >
                        >
                        > ==Gene Poole==
                        >
                        > And He said the word,
                        > and we ate Him. And
                        > the word was 'Hot Dog'!

                        Thanks for sharing. Again, it's a pleasure.
                        Love,
                        maria luisa
                      • Gene Poole
                        ... Thank you, and understood. ... Indeed. Whatever debate, Being contains knowing. ... That is whatever feeling or knowing that seems to be what it is, as
                        Message 11 of 12 , May 27, 2003
                        • 0 Attachment
                          > "mlcanow" <mlcanow@y...> wrote:
                          > > "Gene Poole" <gene_poole@q...> wrote:
                          > > >"mlcanow" <mlcanow@y...> wrote:
                          > > > > "Gene Poole" > <gene_poole@q...> wrote:

                          >>||SNIPPAGE||<<

                          > > [Gasp!] Golly... someone referred to my post
                          > > as a 'metaphor'... {sobbing in relief}... I knew
                          > > it would happen some day... if I waited and
                          > > persisted long enough... thank you!
                          >
                          >
                          > *....Hi Gene,
                          > its always been a pleasure to read your posts.
                          > Your use of language is wonderful. I wish i could put my own ability
                          > in english. In spanish i have no problems. So many times my words
                          > have been misunderstood in this group, as well as many things i've
                          > read here have lacked of good comprehension from my side.
                          > And let me say that i have never doubted that what you say comes
                          > sincerely from your own understanding. You know what you are talking
                          > about. When i placed the question, it was not for you, it just
                          > appeared, and maybe others that are reading and hadn't been through
                          > the door will benefit from it.



                          Thank you, and understood.



                          > > Now, to your personal sense of 'being
                          > > ephemeral'... 'knowing' (as you say)
                          > > is your own localized experience, yes?

                          > *.....Well, Gene, one thing is to know, and another is to be. The
                          > latter contains the former. (More words.)


                          Indeed. Whatever debate, Being contains knowing.


                          > I know that what i conceive about me is just a continuum of
                          > perceptions that work together among what we call time, to form this
                          > personality. I know that all that i see, feel, touch, savour, etc,
                          > are perceptions that produce the effect of the world and me living
                          > in it. I know this, i understand this. So, from that point on, i
                          > have to continuously accept this fact, that i am no more than any
                          > other thing, as an entity. But! as a whole, it is intuited, known,
                          > understood or grasped, whatever, that all these phenomena arises
                          > from Me, and that I arise from that which is behind the door.
                          > Really, i do not find enough vocabulary or the appropriate words to
                          > express these, but i am sure that at least you understand what is
                          > meant. That i am ephemeral? well, maybe i can say so at two in the
                          > morning, being very sleepy and peaceful. Right now, beginning the
                          > day, i feel no ephemeral, i feel energy for going through the day,
                          > until another two a.m. when i will be tyred enough to be alleviated,
                          > released from the need of going through another day, and so on. The
                          > word ephemeral may not be accurate, but i don't know what word may
                          > fit here. And it's not about going to the dictionary endlessly,
                          > ufff! too tyring.
                          >
                          >
                          > >
                          > > So it is OK for you to have that, in my
                          > > opinion.
                          >
                          > *......Being explained the above, what do you think i have? What
                          > that?


                          'That' is whatever feeling or knowing that
                          seems to be what it is, as it pertains to you,
                          as you experience it.


                          > > For myself, the transition from anteroom
                          > > to and from beyond, is utterly transparent
                          > > now.
                          >
                          > *.....beautiful


                          Feels good


                          > Like, if a cop asks for my ID, I can
                          > > actually give it to him. I am aware that
                          > > people assume (know, or feel) many
                          > > different ways about their 'existence', and
                          > > that language in itself, contrary to the
                          > > story of Aladdin's cave, will not either bind
                          > > or liberate me, the cop, or you.
                          > >
                          > > I can buy or create any number of fake
                          > > university diplomas, and hang them on
                          > > my wall, or I can graduate MCL and
                          > > never let anyone know. In either case,
                          > > words on paper do not carry the weight
                          > > of actual experience; there is no proof,
                          > > and there is no evidence of fraud, in
                          > > words. Only solid verifiable evidence,
                          > > such as the proof of mortality provided
                          > > by death via crucifixion, will serve to
                          > > either prove or deny any claims made...
                          >
                          > *.......i can see what you mean. Mortality of the flesh needs no
                          > proof. We are all pretty sure that this will come any day. What
                          > needs to be proven, as in the case of Jesus being crucified, is not
                          > mortality, but resurrection, the eternity of Being. Don't you agree?
                          > If not, would you please explain or ellaborate what you mean by
                          > these words?


                          I am reminded of the story of the ignorant
                          laborors who were employed to dig in a mine,
                          looking for diamonds.

                          One day they found a huge piece of crystal
                          that looked like a diamond. It was so big,
                          they were sure that it would be largest
                          diamond ever found.

                          But they were unsure that it was a diamond;
                          they thought that maybe it was just a
                          big piece of common crystal. So they discussed
                          how they could prove it was a diamond.

                          "They say diamond is the hardest thing
                          in the world", said one of the men.

                          "Yeah, so that means if we hit it really hard
                          with one of our big drilling hammers, that
                          if it breaks, it is not a real diamond!"

                          So sure enough, one of them picked up
                          a 20-pound hammer, and hit the diamond
                          squarely, as hard as he could. And sure
                          enough, the diamond shattered into
                          thousands of small pieces.

                          The men congratulated themselves on
                          their intelligence, and continued working.

                          Later, the supervisor came into the tunnel,
                          and seeing thousands of diamond shards
                          on the ground, asked the men what had
                          happened. The men proudly explained what
                          they had done, but the supervisor picked up
                          one of the pieces of the formerly huge
                          diamond, and tried to scratch it with a carbide
                          point. Of course, the diamond would not
                          be scratched, being harder than carbide.

                          "You fools!" the supervisor said to the men,
                          whose jaws were hanging slack in shock.

                          "You just destroyed what may have been
                          the biggest diamond on the planet!"

                          What was the mistake the laborors had made?

                          It was by their own ignorant defintion of
                          hardness, that they had tested the huge
                          diamond. If they had known what the word
                          'hardness' meant in regards to diamonds,
                          they would never have hit the huge diamond
                          with a hammer; they would have tried to
                          scratch it with a carbide point.

                          It is the same, for the story of Jesus Christ.

                          The ignorant fools who crucified him, chided
                          him by telling him that if he was really God, that
                          he could come back from the dead. Their 'test'
                          of his divinity was as destructive, as the hammer-
                          test of the diamond.

                          Do we carry the same assumptions of divinity?

                          Do we demand 'proof' of divinity?

                          Do we OFFER 'proof' of divinity?

                          By what human standards, is divinity measured?

                          To try to convince someone of the divinity of
                          a person, place or thing, is futile, yet, it is done
                          all the time. And to try to convince anyone of
                          'non-divinity' is equally foolish, would you
                          agree? To characterize the words of another
                          as 'more holy' or 'more profane' is to fall into
                          a deep pit, of one's own digging.

                          It is this, which we attempt to do 'to' 'for'
                          ourselves, concerning ourselves. We try to find
                          proof of our own 'divinity', or proof that it is
                          not there, in someone else. We have these futile
                          discussions in our own minds, and with each
                          other. What does it mean, that we think we have
                          access to the standards, the measure, the metric
                          of the divine?

                          Who is to judge?

                          Am I to judge myself? If I do, I am likely
                          to be judging you, next.

                          Nobody decides; it is to remain a mystery,
                          the mystery that remains behind the door
                          inside the anteroom.

                          The only profanity possible, is for one person
                          to decide for another, what is the test for the
                          realness of the divine. Any testing done, in that
                          regard, will ultimately be destructive.


                          > > In the meantime, we can all just take it
                          > > easy on each other.
                          >
                          > *.....yes, on each other and on ourselves.

                          Indeed, may it be so.

                          > > Sure... as primates, we spend our free
                          > > time, grooming (read: picking at) each-
                          > > other. It is a very natural thing to do,
                          > > for us of the talking-tribe,
                          >
                          > *.......you make me smile.

                          Just monkeying around... heh heh

                          > to attempt
                          > > to help each other clear up misunderstandings.
                          >
                          > *....yes, the best part of this life is to share the clarity, and
                          > when in silence, much better. Overwhelming.
                          >
                          > >
                          > > I think we can draw the line, between that
                          > > and condemnation, based on words alone.
                          >
                          >
                          > *.....sorry, but didn't get the idea on these phrase.

                          OK... there is a line between helping and hurting; we
                          should know, and respect that line.

                          Like in the case of a person who makes claims
                          of divinity; does that justify 'destructive testing
                          methods', such as launching taunts and insults,
                          to see if the 'divine facade' will break?

                          There is a better way to handle that, I think.

                          Thanks, Maria Louise...


                          ==Gene Poole==
                        • mlcanow
                          ... Thanks to you. All is very clear and bello! A great pleasure. Love, maria luisa
                          Message 12 of 12 , May 27, 2003
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                            > Thanks, Maria Louise...
                            >
                            >
                            > ==Gene Poole==

                            Thanks to you. All is very clear and bello!
                            A great pleasure.

                            Love,
                            maria luisa
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