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Who am I

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  • Sandeep Chatterjee
    Hi, Whether a spiritual quest or any quest, the focus is always on the goal, on the issue, isn t it? The goal of spiritual bliss, of Enlightenment, of
    Message 1 of 2 , Aug 1, 2002
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      Hi,

      Whether a spiritual quest or any quest, the focus is always on the goal, on the issue, isn't it?

      The goal of spiritual bliss, of Enlightenment, of awakening, of reaching God

      Or

      The issue of how to resolve the misery of living, get peace of mind

      Or,

      Seeking the new 4 bedroom house, the third car, maybe a couple of million dollars, a promotion, a new job, any job, seeking a self-fulfilling relationship, seeking to save/get out of a relationship, etc, etc.



      Rather than the issue, or the goal, we rarely wonder just who is it, that seeks spiritual bliss or Enlightenment or God, or the million dollars?

      Just who is it that is in misery?

      Who is it, that is in the quest?

      Who is this "seeker"?

      Who am I?

      The focus always is on the issue or the goal and the debate on the effectiveness of various means, schools of thought, philosophical streams, Guru X, or Y, Master P or Q, etc etc to achieve the issue, to reach the goal.

      Would not this focus, be like wondering whether the water of the mirage-lake in the desert, is it hot or cold?

      And debating how to measure that temperature ?


      What is the existential reality of this self, which seeks, whatever it seeks in the moment?

      What is the existential reality of the identity which you have assumed yourself to be?

      What is it's Truth?


      Who am I?


      Before stepping into that, what is existential Reality?

      What is Truth?

      Existential Reality or Truth would be "that" which needs no "other", depends on no "other", for it's existence.

      It stands completed in itself.



      Now let's look at the typical icons of identity which is normally assumed for oneself.


      -A name

      -A conglomeration of professional knowledge, skills, etc ( I am manager in a Multinational Company, or I am a speech therapist, I am Educationist, I am a wannabe doctor, I am radiologists, I am a Dean in a University)

      -A wife, a husband, a son, a father, a mother, a daughter, a respected member of the neighborhood society, a citizen of a country

      -A woman, a man

      -A human being in contrast to an animal or a snail.

      -An entity holding some profound realizations, memories of experiences out of which has evolved the dearly cherished Life-values, convictions, spiritual understandings, a spiritual seeker, a non-spiritual, whatever.

      -A human organism, which is alive, with a sense of volition, free will, to do or not to do, to decide between this and that, etc, etc.


      Are these not the typical icons, with which we paint our self-identity?


      Look at any of these icons.


      None of them can exist, on it's own.

      A simple visualization will make it evident.


      Imagine yourself as the sole survivor of a global catastrophe.

      Except you, nothing else, nobody else has survived.

      You are wandering about, with nobody else in sight, nothing else in sight.

      Without an "other", does your name, Chelle, Kathleen, Moushimi, Amitava, Neeti, Soniya, Indroneel, have any meaning, any relevance?

      Without an "other", does your vocational knowledge, your skills in whatever business you are involved in, your spiritual work that you are engaged in, your Life-values, your religious convictions, have any meaning, any relevance?

      Without an "other", does the assumed identities, of a wife, of a mother, of a daughter, of a respected (or non-respected) member of society, of a son, of a father, of a husband, whatever, do they have any meaning, any relevance?

      Without an "other", does your "femaleness" or "maleness", have any meaning, any relevance?
      How will you define "maleness" without the existing contrast of "femaleness"?
      And vice-versa?

      Without an "other", does any of the convictions, values, conclusions, realizations, satoris, spiritual understandings that you hold on to, (for they define yourself to you), do any of that, have any meaning, any relevance?

      Without an "other", does your conviction about being a human organism with free will, have any meaning, any relevance?

      Without an "other", how would you even be convinced that you have survived the global catastrophe?

      That you are in fact, even "alive"?

      Without an "other", does "life" and "death", these convictions, which run you, have they any meaning, any relevance?

      In each of these identities, it cannot stand on it's own.

      It needs a contrasting opposite, an "other" to lend to it, it's existential meaning.


      Ergo, can any of these be the reality of your existence?


      Or define the truth of your existence?


      How do you know that you actually exist?

      Because, you are, right now sitting in front of a PC screen, reading these strange signs on the screen, connoting a crazy meaning?

      That you eat, take a shit in the morning, go to work, make love, relate to people, see other people alive, or dying, etc etc?

      All this could be happening in a dream.

      In a dream, you are alive, you eat, you do this or that, you have profound discussions, you are fearful you make love, you do cruel acts, you do profound acts.

      And in the dream, while dreaming, you do not know that you are dreaming.

      If another dreamed-up character walked upto you in the dream, or sends you a dream-message through the dreamed Internet connection, indicating that you are a dreamed-up character, you will laugh, be upset, not believe, and if your anger is sufficient, maybe even nail him to a cross, or burn her up.

      While you are dreaming, it is so real to you, that many a time, you break into cold sweat, you cry out, you shout, you laugh, you cry, you have wet dreams, all while sound asleep.


      Isn't it so?


      So what gives you the firm conviction that you are not a dreamed up-character in the dream of a tsetse fly and you will go "pooof", when the fly wakes up, from it's 10 second sleep.

      Time?

      Have you never dreamt where an entire life-time of 89-90 years flashed by, in it's minutest details, in a dream time of couple of hours?

      If you have not, know that, such has been a case with many a people.

      Continuity?

      You remember a previous waking days, events, experiences, work done, work undone etc, etc?

      Continuity is a function of the recording of the memory.

      In that respect the night-sleep--dream has a more powerful effect on memory, than the other way around.

      Why do I say that?

      You would have had, at some time in your life, such a powerful dream, that it's effect as "moroseness" or "happiness", carried on into your waking state, while at work, or while doing your house work.

      But never does your day-waking-functionings gets carried into your sleep-dreaming state, (except may be when you had some bad Lobsters for dinner)


      Continuity is no basis for the existential reality of an identity.


      Centuries back, the Tao Master Chuang Tzu had posed the same question....

      If Chuang Tzu can dream, it's become a butterfly flitting from flower to flower, why is it not possible that it is the butterfly dreaming that it is Chuang Tzu holding spiritual discourses.


      So, who are you?


      Ought not, this premise be clearly established before proceeding on any quest by this entity?



      Yaba Daba Gopeeeee Goooooo


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • medit8ionsociety
      First Sandeep shares Sahaja, our natural state, with us. Then, here, he shows us all that obscures it. He asks us to Realize and just be. Is there any greater
      Message 2 of 2 , Aug 1, 2002
      • 0 Attachment
        First Sandeep shares Sahaja, our natural state, with us. Then, here,
        he shows us all that obscures it. He asks us to Realize and just be.
        Is there any greater kindness he can share. I think not!
        "Sandeep Chatterjee"
        <sandeepc@b...> wrote:
        > Hi,
        >
        > Whether a spiritual quest or any quest, the focus is always on the
        goal, on the issue, isn't it?
        >
        > The goal of spiritual bliss, of Enlightenment, of awakening, of
        reaching God
        >
        > Or
        >
        > The issue of how to resolve the misery of living, get peace of mind
        >
        > Or,
        >
        > Seeking the new 4 bedroom house, the third car, maybe a couple of
        million dollars, a promotion, a new job, any job, seeking a
        self-fulfilling relationship, seeking to save/get out of a
        relationship, etc, etc.
        >
        >
        >
        > Rather than the issue, or the goal, we rarely wonder just who is
        it,
        that seeks spiritual bliss or Enlightenment or God, or the million
        dollars?
        >
        > Just who is it that is in misery?
        >
        > Who is it, that is in the quest?
        >
        > Who is this "seeker"?
        >
        > Who am I?
        >
        > The focus always is on the issue or the goal and the debate on the
        effectiveness of various means, schools of thought, philosophical
        streams, Guru X, or Y, Master P or Q, etc etc to achieve the issue,
        to
        reach the goal.
        >
        > Would not this focus, be like wondering whether the water of the
        mirage-lake in the desert, is it hot or cold?
        >
        > And debating how to measure that temperature ?
        >
        >
        > What is the existential reality of this self, which seeks, whatever
        it seeks in the moment?
        >
        > What is the existential reality of the identity which you have
        assumed yourself to be?
        >
        > What is it's Truth?
        >
        >
        > Who am I?
        >
        >
        > Before stepping into that, what is existential Reality?
        >
        > What is Truth?
        >
        > Existential Reality or Truth would be "that" which needs no
        "other",
        depends on no "other", for it's existence.
        >
        > It stands completed in itself.
        >
        >
        >
        > Now let's look at the typical icons of identity which is normally
        assumed for oneself.
        >
        >
        > -A name
        >
        > -A conglomeration of professional knowledge, skills, etc ( I am
        manager in a Multinational Company, or I am a speech therapist, I am
        Educationist, I am a wannabe doctor, I am radiologists, I am a Dean
        in
        a University)
        >
        > -A wife, a husband, a son, a father, a mother, a daughter, a
        respected member of the neighborhood society, a citizen of a country
        >
        > -A woman, a man
        >
        > -A human being in contrast to an animal or a snail.
        >
        > -An entity holding some profound realizations, memories of
        experiences out of which has evolved the dearly cherished
        Life-values,
        convictions, spiritual understandings, a spiritual seeker, a
        non-spiritual, whatever.
        >
        > -A human organism, which is alive, with a sense of volition, free
        will, to do or not to do, to decide between this and that, etc, etc.
        >
        >
        > Are these not the typical icons, with which we paint our
        self-identity?
        >
        >
        > Look at any of these icons.
        >
        >
        > None of them can exist, on it's own.
        >
        > A simple visualization will make it evident.
        >
        >
        > Imagine yourself as the sole survivor of a global catastrophe.
        >
        > Except you, nothing else, nobody else has survived.
        >
        > You are wandering about, with nobody else in sight, nothing else in
        sight.
        >
        > Without an "other", does your name, Chelle, Kathleen, Moushimi,
        Amitava, Neeti, Soniya, Indroneel, have any meaning, any relevance?
        >
        > Without an "other", does your vocational knowledge, your skills in
        whatever business you are involved in, your spiritual work that you
        are engaged in, your Life-values, your religious convictions, have
        any
        meaning, any relevance?
        >
        > Without an "other", does the assumed identities, of a wife, of a
        mother, of a daughter, of a respected (or non-respected) member of
        society, of a son, of a father, of a husband, whatever, do they have
        any meaning, any relevance?
        >
        > Without an "other", does your "femaleness" or "maleness", have any
        meaning, any relevance?
        > How will you define "maleness" without the existing contrast of
        "femaleness"?
        > And vice-versa?
        >
        > Without an "other", does any of the convictions, values,
        conclusions, realizations, satoris, spiritual understandings that you
        hold on to, (for they define yourself to you), do any of that, have
        any meaning, any relevance?
        >
        > Without an "other", does your conviction about being a human
        organism with free will, have any meaning, any relevance?
        >
        > Without an "other", how would you even be convinced that you have
        survived the global catastrophe?
        >
        > That you are in fact, even "alive"?
        >
        > Without an "other", does "life" and "death", these convictions,
        which run you, have they any meaning, any relevance?
        >
        > In each of these identities, it cannot stand on it's own.
        >
        > It needs a contrasting opposite, an "other" to lend to it, it's
        existential meaning.
        >
        >
        > Ergo, can any of these be the reality of your existence?
        >
        >
        > Or define the truth of your existence?
        >
        >
        > How do you know that you actually exist?
        >
        > Because, you are, right now sitting in front of a PC screen,
        reading
        these strange signs on the screen, connoting a crazy meaning?
        >
        > That you eat, take a shit in the morning, go to work, make love,
        relate to people, see other people alive, or dying, etc etc?
        >
        > All this could be happening in a dream.
        >
        > In a dream, you are alive, you eat, you do this or that, you have
        profound discussions, you are fearful you make love, you do cruel
        acts, you do profound acts.
        >
        > And in the dream, while dreaming, you do not know that you are
        dreaming.
        >
        > If another dreamed-up character walked upto you in the dream, or
        sends you a dream-message through the dreamed Internet connection,
        indicating that you are a dreamed-up character, you will laugh, be
        upset, not believe, and if your anger is sufficient, maybe even nail
        him to a cross, or burn her up.
        >
        > While you are dreaming, it is so real to you, that many a time, you
        break into cold sweat, you cry out, you shout, you laugh, you cry,
        you
        have wet dreams, all while sound asleep.
        >
        >
        > Isn't it so?
        >
        >
        > So what gives you the firm conviction that you are not a dreamed
        up-character in the dream of a tsetse fly and you will go "pooof",
        when the fly wakes up, from it's 10 second sleep.
        >
        > Time?
        >
        > Have you never dreamt where an entire life-time of 89-90 years
        flashed by, in it's minutest details, in a dream time of couple of
        hours?
        >
        > If you have not, know that, such has been a case with many a people.
        >
        > Continuity?
        >
        > You remember a previous waking days, events, experiences, work
        done,
        work undone etc, etc?
        >
        > Continuity is a function of the recording of the memory.
        >
        > In that respect the night-sleep--dream has a more powerful effect
        on
        memory, than the other way around.
        >
        > Why do I say that?
        >
        > You would have had, at some time in your life, such a powerful
        dream, that it's effect as "moroseness" or "happiness", carried on
        into your waking state, while at work, or while doing your house work.
        >
        > But never does your day-waking-functionings gets carried into your
        sleep-dreaming state, (except may be when you had some bad Lobsters
        for dinner)
        >
        >
        > Continuity is no basis for the existential reality of an identity.
        >
        >
        > Centuries back, the Tao Master Chuang Tzu had posed the same
        question....
        >
        > If Chuang Tzu can dream, it's become a butterfly flitting from
        flower to flower, why is it not possible that it is the butterfly
        dreaming that it is Chuang Tzu holding spiritual discourses.
        >
        >
        > So, who are you?
        >
        >
        > Ought not, this premise be clearly established before proceeding on
        any quest by this entity?
        >
        >
        >
        > Yaba Daba Gopeeeee Goooooo
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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