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[Meditation Society of America] Re: Email questions about 3rd Eye and comments during meditation

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  • texasbg2000
    ... Isn t this a different topic. That of is meditation helpful? I believe meditating makes you better at meditation. ... The idea of control is slippery.
    Message 1 of 19 , Apr 30, 2003
      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Jason Fishman
      <munkiman4u@y...> wrote:
      >
      > > > Jason: Yes depth, the shallow end of what we would
      > > all
      > > > care to experience. Moving, powerful &
      > > overwhelming.
      > > > As to say this is heaven or hell, either being
      > > deep
      > > > states of good or badness.
      > >
      > > No, not my meaning. With deep meditation at least
      > > in my case,
      > > thoughts slow and very few ideas are presented. The
      > > recurring one
      > > was will I be posessed, i.e., is the idea of
      > > meditation a misleading
      > > conspiracy to get people to submit to a loss of
      > > control of themselves.
      > >
      > > I found that idea to be wrong but only after I was
      > > 'at the end of my
      > > rope'.
      >
      > Jason: OK, I see the conspiracy side of thought as
      > though to say something is being done to you. i.e.
      > another putting the thought in your head that
      > meditation is lovely, only to find out that it's a way
      > for another to control you (a demon, let's say).
      > Although, I do still question the control side, as to
      > say you are doing something to yourself or for
      > yourself. In the case of meditation, is the act of
      > meditation giving you something (either positive or
      > negative)? As to say does the peace you feel during
      > deep meditation give rise to a good feeling (not
      > thoughts in words, just feeling) Let's not address the
      > in between thought for now, as to say neti, neti.
      >

      Isn't this a different topic. That of 'is meditation helpful?' I
      believe meditating makes you better at meditation.

      > > >
      > > > > It seemed like if I went any further I would
      > > lose
      > > > > control. I told
      > > > > myself i was willing to die but I had to know if
      > > I
      > > > > had wasted my time
      > > > > and had never really been willing to face my
      > > fears.
      > > >
      > > > Jason: yes I understand this practice. On what one
      > > > would call a control issue, wouldn't someone with
      > > a
      > > > serious intent to kill, holding a gun to anothers
      > > head
      > > > be quite the same practice? Would you say there is
      > > a
      > > > better sense of control when one does this on
      > > their
      > > > own?
      > >
      > > could you go into this a little more? I dont
      > > understand your meaning.
      > > I actually sat down and waited to die.
      >
      > Jason: What is ment here is, is sitting and waiting to
      > die something other then have someone force your
      > eminent death apon you. Does this waiting to die seem
      > to give you the control as opposed to another taking
      > your life? If, so... Does this thought that you
      > control the outcome give you benift?

      The idea of control is slippery. "Controlling the senses" sounds
      like an act of doing something but in fact is the act of not doing
      anything: not being influenced in any way enough to let the senses
      take focus from meditation.

      Submitting to fear is different in type than submitting to a loss of
      control, which is in effect, control of the senses.

      Eminent death is different. It is said that even the sages quake
      when death is near.

      >
      > I have succumb to my own death in both situations, so
      > for me neither feel different, nor does there seem to
      > be a benifit or non-benifit to this illusion of an
      > end.
      >
      > > >
      > > > > I practiced a
      > > > > small affirmation that when the time came I
      > > would
      > > > > not back off
      > > > > again. So I was graced with Samadhi.
      > > >
      > > > Jason: hmm, ponderous.
      > >
      > > I have done this a lot, get prepared for thoughts
      > > that I expect to
      > > return. You seem critical? Could you explain
      > > please?
      >
      > Jason: The affirmation, that one will not back-off
      > next time. I was thinking about this backing off, this
      > letting go and again it seems to me a non-choice, nor
      > does it provide a benifit to partake in such a
      > practice.
      >
      > Such to say that you can do everything imaginable to
      > remove the fear that you don't know whats around the
      > corner. There still remains enough suprises around the
      > corner to keep taht fear in check.
      >
      > Much like going around the block to meet your
      > neighbors, you never know if you will be welcomed or
      > not. So there is a sense that you may not be, even if
      > you've been around the block a million times. There is
      > still enough unwelcoming to keep it interesting.

      I believed in the love and wisdom I read and experienced and I saw
      too much system leading forward and this helped me lose fear.

      The fear dwindled I think because it was not about a real thing and
      reality had grown more present in my life. Of course fear of the
      unknown disappears entirely when it is seen to be unfounded.

      The main point is that fear of being possessed was for me a diversion
      from the real fear. The fear of death is a big one and too massive
      to confront so I substituted something I could handle, the fear of
      possession.

      >
      > > >
      > > > > The fears were of the unknown. Like a child
      > > that
      > > > > does not know
      > > > > monsters of the supernatural kind do not exist
      > > > > because they have not
      > > > > lived enough to know, I had to learn to be
      > > brave.
      > > > > It seems silly now
      > > > > but the fear was like a wisp of smoke and I have
      > > not
      > > > > seen it since.
      > > > >
      > > > > The question of negative or positive has to
      > > answered
      > > > > in context to an
      > > > > event and not as one of the rules in an
      > > objective
      > > > > universe that we
      > > > > must somehow find. In that sense, thoughts
      > > during
      > > > > meditation are bad.
      > > >
      > > > Jason: I see, some thoughts outloud we share,
      > > thank
      > > > you! Fear of the unknown, the demon of all
      > > goodness
      > > > perhaps?
      > >
      > > I don't see goodness as an entity and as I explained
      > > I gave up the
      > > possibility of the demon.
      >
      > Jason: I understand. Although it is most certain to me
      > that people don't care for each other (or for things),
      > not in the least, until a moment arises when the other
      > can do something to benifit them, then they care
      > deeply. What really could be exposed is this knowing
      > of oneself and of others, this may aid in the fight
      > against the demons of understanding motivations and
      > interplay in any relational experience. Even though
      > people walk around saying things like "she/he loves me
      > for me" or "he/she doesn't care", the bottom line is
      > that they don't care until they do. Who am I? A
      > selfish person, until those that benifit me are
      > clearly understood, regardless of any past or future
      > interplay. Death seems beyond a sense of self and is
      > also prior to any senses. Nothing begins nor does it
      > end, so I guess this is the end of another begining:)

      I found that I love the truth. It is the simple act of knowing and
      it is the greatest gift of all. I don't think it is important if
      that is selfish or not.

      I do things for selfish reasons sometimes but when I find myself
      lying to myself to continue doing that thing then my tendency is to
      stop the lie and give up the benefit. That that gives me a greater
      benefit is beside the point.

      Love
      Bobby G.
    • satkartar7
      ... in this case Jason, it is just the same, since the moment of breaking meditation alreay happened: with the notice of negativity later, when out of
      Message 2 of 19 , May 1 9:10 AM
        Jason Fishman <munkiman4u@y...> wrote:
        > I wouldn't mind hearing ho weither of you know that
        > it's bad? In what way does one notice the
        > manifistation of bad or good during any practice,
        > especially one that is about the understanding neither
        > state?
        >
        > Peace and Love
        >


        in this case Jason, it is just the
        same, since the moment of breaking meditation alreay happened: with
        the notice of negativity

        later, when "out" of meditation it is
        a good thing to do vichara: "why did,
        and why that type of negative entity
        appear, and what does it mean"

        it is usually one's supressed sub
        conscious mind manifesting [a painful
        uggly mirror, but must be done]

        Karta



        > --- satkartar7 <mi_nok@y...> wrote:
        > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
        > > "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
        > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
        > > medit8ionsociety
        > > > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
        > > > > Dear sir,
        > > > > How should we react if we come into contact with
        > > evil spirits during
        > > > > the 3rd eye meditation. Will the evil spirits
        > > harm me and how to
        > > > deal
        > > > > with them.
        > > > > In most of your meditating techniques featured,
        > > comment must not be
        > > > > done during meditation, why is it so and what
        > > will happen if one
        > > > > really makes comments.
        > > > > Thank you.
        > > > > S.H.
        > > >
        > > > Dear SH:
        > > >
        > > > That was a very real fear in me also for many
        > > years, that I would be
        > > > possessed if I turned loose and submitted to the
        > > meditation.
        > > >
        > > > For me it turned out that when I said to myself
        > > that I was willing to
        > > > die to know what it is like to submit, that the
        > > fear was overcome.
        > > >
        > > > This told me it was really a fear of death I was
        > > recoiling from, and
        > > > that the demon fear was covering my fear of death.
        > > >
        > > > Commenting during meditation is very similar to
        > > just "knowing".
        > > > Knowing is acceptable. I hope someone will
        > > correct me if I am wrong
        > > > about this.
        > > >
        > > > Love
        > > > Bobby G.
        > >
        > >
        > > I agree with you Bobby, there is
        > > a death-jump like feeling before
        > > leaving the mind behind..a struggle
        > >
        > > In Shabd Yoga Meditation they give a
        > > mantra for warding off the negative
        > >
        > > Karta
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        > __________________________________
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        > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
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      • satkartar7
        ... yes, Bobby, the death-jump [leaving the mind behind for deeper cleaning ] in meditation is hard very hard and here lies the genius of the sound part of
        Message 3 of 19 , May 1 9:18 AM
          "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
          > --- In Jason Fishman
          > <munkiman4u@y...> wrote:
          > > I wouldn't mind hearing ho weither of you know that
          > > it's bad? In what way does one notice the
          > > manifistation of bad or good during any practice,
          > > especially one that is about the understanding neither
          > > state?
          > >
          > > Peace and Love
          >
          > Good point Jason. I will let Karta answer from her perspective.
          >
          > for myself when I meditated I got to a place that seemed deep.
          > It seemed like if I went any further I would lose control. I told
          > myself i was willing to die but I had to know if I had wasted my time
          > and had never really been willing to face my fears.


          yes, Bobby, the "death-jump" [leaving
          the "mind" behind for deeper"cleaning"]
          in meditation is hard very hard and
          here lies the genius of the sound
          part of the Sabd Yoga meditation,
          sinc it does mesmerize one: no place
          for any cognition and before you
          "notice" .. you are on the way

          Love, Karta


          > I practiced a
          > small affirmation that when the time came I would not back off
          > again. So I was graced with Samadhi.
          >
          > The fears were of the unknown. Like a child that does not know
          > monsters of the supernatural kind do not exist because they have not
          > lived enough to know, I had to learn to be brave. It seems silly now
          > but the fear was like a wisp of smoke and I have not seen it since.
          >
          > The question of negative or positive has to answered in context to an
          > event and not as one of the rules in an objective universe that we
          > must somehow find. In that sense, thoughts during meditation are bad.
          >
          > Love
          > Bobby G.
          >
          > >
          > > --- satkartar7 <mi_nok@y...> wrote:
          > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
          > > > "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
          > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
          > > > medit8ionsociety
          > > > > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
          > > > > > Dear sir,
          > > > > > How should we react if we come into contact with
          > > > evil spirits during
          > > > > > the 3rd eye meditation. Will the evil spirits
          > > > harm me and how to
          > > > > deal
          > > > > > with them.
          > > > > > In most of your meditating techniques featured,
          > > > comment must not be
          > > > > > done during meditation, why is it so and what
          > > > will happen if one
          > > > > > really makes comments.
          > > > > > Thank you.
          > > > > > S.H.
          > > > >
          > > > > Dear SH:
          > > > >
          > > > > That was a very real fear in me also for many
          > > > years, that I would be
          > > > > possessed if I turned loose and submitted to the
          > > > meditation.
          > > > >
          > > > > For me it turned out that when I said to myself
          > > > that I was willing to
          > > > > die to know what it is like to submit, that the
          > > > fear was overcome.
          > > > >
          > > > > This told me it was really a fear of death I was
          > > > recoiling from, and
          > > > > that the demon fear was covering my fear of death.
          > > > >
          > > > > Commenting during meditation is very similar to
          > > > just "knowing".
          > > > > Knowing is acceptable. I hope someone will
          > > > correct me if I am wrong
          > > > > about this.
          > > > >
          > > > > Love
          > > > > Bobby G.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > I agree with you Bobby, there is
          > > > a death-jump like feeling before
          > > > leaving the mind behind..a struggle
          > > >
          > > > In Shabd Yoga Meditation they give a
          > > > mantra for warding off the negative
          > > >
          > > > Karta
        • texasbg2000
          ... time ... hi Karta: Could you post that Sabd Yoga meditation? I have a sound meditation where the sound is always present and I can hear it even when
          Message 4 of 19 , May 1 10:15 AM
            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "satkartar7"
            <mi_nok@y...> wrote:
            > "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
            > > --- In Jason Fishman
            > > <munkiman4u@y...> wrote:
            > > > I wouldn't mind hearing ho weither of you know that
            > > > it's bad? In what way does one notice the
            > > > manifistation of bad or good during any practice,
            > > > especially one that is about the understanding neither
            > > > state?
            > > >
            > > > Peace and Love
            > >
            > > Good point Jason. I will let Karta answer from her perspective.
            > >
            > > for myself when I meditated I got to a place that seemed deep.
            > > It seemed like if I went any further I would lose control. I told
            > > myself i was willing to die but I had to know if I had wasted my
            time
            > > and had never really been willing to face my fears.
            >
            >
            > yes, Bobby, the "death-jump" [leaving
            > the "mind" behind for deeper"cleaning"]
            > in meditation is hard very hard and
            > here lies the genius of the sound
            > part of the Sabd Yoga meditation,
            > sinc it does mesmerize one: no place
            > for any cognition and before you
            > "notice" .. you are on the way
            >
            > Love, Karta

            hi Karta:

            Could you post that Sabd Yoga meditation? I have a sound meditation
            where the sound is always present and I can hear it even when talking
            or listening. Is it similar to that? Even with it the fear of
            possession bumped me many times.

            Bobby G.

            >
            >
            > > I practiced a
            > > small affirmation that when the time came I would not back off
            > > again. So I was graced with Samadhi.
            > >
            > > The fears were of the unknown. Like a child that does not know
            > > monsters of the supernatural kind do not exist because they have
            not
            > > lived enough to know, I had to learn to be brave. It seems silly
            now
            > > but the fear was like a wisp of smoke and I have not seen it
            since.
            > >
            > > The question of negative or positive has to answered in context
            to an
            > > event and not as one of the rules in an objective universe that
            we
            > > must somehow find. In that sense, thoughts during meditation are
            bad.
            > >
            > > Love
            > > Bobby G.
            > >
            > > >
            > > > --- satkartar7 <mi_nok@y...> wrote:
            > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
            > > > > "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
            > > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
            > > > > medit8ionsociety
            > > > > > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
            > > > > > > Dear sir,
            > > > > > > How should we react if we come into contact with
            > > > > evil spirits during
            > > > > > > the 3rd eye meditation. Will the evil spirits
            > > > > harm me and how to
            > > > > > deal
            > > > > > > with them.
            > > > > > > In most of your meditating techniques featured,
            > > > > comment must not be
            > > > > > > done during meditation, why is it so and what
            > > > > will happen if one
            > > > > > > really makes comments.
            > > > > > > Thank you.
            > > > > > > S.H.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Dear SH:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > That was a very real fear in me also for many
            > > > > years, that I would be
            > > > > > possessed if I turned loose and submitted to the
            > > > > meditation.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > For me it turned out that when I said to myself
            > > > > that I was willing to
            > > > > > die to know what it is like to submit, that the
            > > > > fear was overcome.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > This told me it was really a fear of death I was
            > > > > recoiling from, and
            > > > > > that the demon fear was covering my fear of death.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Commenting during meditation is very similar to
            > > > > just "knowing".
            > > > > > Knowing is acceptable. I hope someone will
            > > > > correct me if I am wrong
            > > > > > about this.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Love
            > > > > > Bobby G.
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > I agree with you Bobby, there is
            > > > > a death-jump like feeling before
            > > > > leaving the mind behind..a struggle
            > > > >
            > > > > In Shabd Yoga Meditation they give a
            > > > > mantra for warding off the negative
            > > > >
            > > > > Karta
          • Jason Fishman
            ... Jason: Why only in this case? Would you say that meditation is broken by negativity? ... Jason: I don t believe I suffer from this reflection you speak
            Message 5 of 19 , May 1 4:46 PM
              --- satkartar7 <mi_nok@...> wrote:
              > Jason Fishman <munkiman4u@y...> wrote:
              > > I wouldn't mind hearing ho weither of you know
              > that
              > > it's bad? In what way does one notice the
              > > manifistation of bad or good during any practice,
              > > especially one that is about the understanding
              > neither
              > > state?
              > >
              > > Peace and Love
              > >
              >
              >
              > in this case Jason, it is just the
              > same, since the moment of breaking meditation
              > alreay happened: with
              > the notice of negativity

              Jason: Why only in this case? Would you say that
              meditation is broken by negativity?

              > later, when "out" of meditation it is
              > a good thing to do vichara: "why did,
              > and why that type of negative entity
              > appear, and what does it mean"

              Jason: I don't believe I suffer from this reflection
              you speak of.. This giving meaning to why something
              occured. In relfection however, I once did this
              extensively.

              > it is usually one's supressed sub
              > conscious mind manifesting [a painful
              > uggly mirror, but must be done]

              Jason: I actually enjoy the painful, ugly mirror. It
              makes sense to me, since everyone outside is the ugly
              reflection of my insides that I would love to
              confront, yet I can't seem to find anywhere in my
              world.

              Thanks Karta

              Peace and Love

              > Karta


              __________________________________
              Do you Yahoo!?
              The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
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            • satkartar7
              ... Hi Bobby here is the sound meditation page the second one by Kirpal if you click on onlinebooks than on Naam there is more to read about the sound and the
              Message 6 of 19 , May 2 9:31 AM
                > hi Karta:
                >
                > Could you post that Sabd Yoga meditation? I have a sound meditation
                > where the sound is always present and I can hear it even when talking
                > or listening. Is it similar to that? Even with it the fear of
                > possession bumped me many times.
                >
                > Bobby G.
                >

                Hi Bobby here is the sound meditation
                page the second one by Kirpal if you
                click on onlinebooks than on Naam
                there is more to read about the sound
                and the third you find Gurdijeff
                movement diagram 'he taught a yoga-
                dance' like magick diagramm of steps
                and movements coordinated with emotions
                .. I have to look it up: he was
                initiated to and used the nadi-sound
                of Aum also. So is Keith Richards, Erick
                Clapton Shania Twain and many musicians
                it is a great tool in meditation

                <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/santmat/shabd-1.html>
                <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/santmat/kirpal.html>
                <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/2/sufiart.htm>

                Posession by the Aum, no I don't
                think so.

                Love, Karta
              • texasbg2000
                ... meditation ... talking ... Thank you Karta, it is the same meditation I have been using. Probably the possession thing came out of my early Baptist
                Message 7 of 19 , May 2 10:47 AM
                  --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "satkartar7"
                  <mi_nok@y...> wrote:
                  > > hi Karta:
                  > >
                  > > Could you post that Sabd Yoga meditation? I have a sound
                  meditation
                  > > where the sound is always present and I can hear it even when
                  talking
                  > > or listening. Is it similar to that? Even with it the fear of
                  > > possession bumped me many times.
                  > >
                  > > Bobby G.
                  > >
                  >
                  > Hi Bobby here is the sound meditation
                  > page the second one by Kirpal if you
                  > click on onlinebooks than on Naam
                  > there is more to read about the sound
                  > and the third you find Gurdijeff
                  > movement diagram 'he taught a yoga-
                  > dance' like magick diagramm of steps
                  > and movements coordinated with emotions
                  > .. I have to look it up: he was
                  > initiated to and used the nadi-sound
                  > of Aum also. So is Keith Richards, Erick
                  > Clapton Shania Twain and many musicians
                  > it is a great tool in meditation
                  >
                  > <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/santmat/shabd-1.html>
                  > <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/santmat/kirpal.html>
                  > <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/2/sufiart.htm>
                  >
                  > Posession by the Aum, no I don't
                  > think so.
                  >
                  > Love, Karta

                  Thank you Karta, it is the same meditation I have been using.

                  Probably the possession thing came out of my early Baptist training
                  and movies.
                  Love
                  Bobby G.
                • medit8ionsociety
                  texasbg2000 wrote: snip ... Hi, The fear of possession may have a much earlier origion than movies or Baptist stuff. As a matter of fact,
                  Message 8 of 19 , May 2 3:16 PM
                    "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
                    snip
                    Karta:
                    > > Hi Bobby here is the sound meditation
                    > > page the second one by Kirpal if you
                    > > click on onlinebooks than on Naam
                    > > there is more to read about the sound
                    > > and the third you find Gurdijeff
                    > > movement diagram 'he taught a yoga-
                    > > dance' like magick diagramm of steps
                    > > and movements coordinated with emotions
                    > > .. I have to look it up: he was
                    > > initiated to and used the nadi-sound
                    > > of Aum also. So is Keith Richards, Erick
                    > > Clapton Shania Twain and many musicians
                    > > it is a great tool in meditation
                    > >
                    > > <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/santmat/shabd-1.html>
                    > > <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/santmat/kirpal.html>
                    > > <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/2/sufiart.htm>
                    > >
                    > > Posession by the Aum, no I don't
                    > > think so.
                    > >
                    > > Love, Karta

                    Bobby G:
                    > Thank you Karta, it is the same meditation I have been using.
                    >
                    > Probably the possession thing came out of my early Baptist training
                    > and movies.
                    > Love
                    > Bobby G.

                    Hi,
                    The fear of possession may have a much earlier origion than movies or
                    Baptist stuff. As a matter of fact, in may be in our very oldest and
                    deepest genetic memories. In the days before fire, a caveman probably
                    sat in the dark shaking with fear of the roars and growls of the
                    predators roaming around outside. He very likely stuck his fingers in
                    his ears, or plugged them up with dirt or whatever was handy, to shut
                    out the terrifying sounds. This was the start of man looking within,
                    and finding and listening to the inner "divine harmonies", "celestial
                    choirs", and so on, that every religion and "way" has reported from
                    that time on. Similarly, he would have likely become much more aware
                    of his breath, and it is probable that this would have also been the
                    start of the Soham meditation, and other pranayama techniques. And he
                    also probably had his eyes shut tightly at different times and would
                    have likely eventually focused on the 3rd eye area, and the inner
                    door to cosmic vision would have opened. All of this would have led
                    his newly evolved frontal lobe activity to start the enquiry
                    into "Who am I?", What is this life about", and so on. And thus
                    meditation began and continues until this very moment. So, how come
                    they call it "New Age"?:-)
                    Peace and blessings,
                    Bob
                  • texasbg2000
                    ... training ... or ... and ... probably ... in ... shut ... within, ... harmonies , celestial ... aware ... the ... he ... would ... LOL. Yeah. At some
                    Message 9 of 19 , May 2 5:33 PM
                      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
                      <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                      > "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
                      > snip
                      > Karta:
                      > > > Hi Bobby here is the sound meditation
                      > > > page the second one by Kirpal if you
                      > > > click on onlinebooks than on Naam
                      > > > there is more to read about the sound
                      > > > and the third you find Gurdijeff
                      > > > movement diagram 'he taught a yoga-
                      > > > dance' like magick diagramm of steps
                      > > > and movements coordinated with emotions
                      > > > .. I have to look it up: he was
                      > > > initiated to and used the nadi-sound
                      > > > of Aum also. So is Keith Richards, Erick
                      > > > Clapton Shania Twain and many musicians
                      > > > it is a great tool in meditation
                      > > >
                      > > > <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/santmat/shabd-1.html>
                      > > > <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/santmat/kirpal.html>
                      > > > <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/2/sufiart.htm>
                      > > >
                      > > > Posession by the Aum, no I don't
                      > > > think so.
                      > > >
                      > > > Love, Karta
                      >
                      > Bobby G:
                      > > Thank you Karta, it is the same meditation I have been using.
                      > >
                      > > Probably the possession thing came out of my early Baptist
                      training
                      > > and movies.
                      > > Love
                      > > Bobby G.
                      >
                      > Hi,
                      > The fear of possession may have a much earlier origion than movies
                      or
                      > Baptist stuff. As a matter of fact, in may be in our very oldest
                      and
                      > deepest genetic memories. In the days before fire, a caveman
                      probably
                      > sat in the dark shaking with fear of the roars and growls of the
                      > predators roaming around outside. He very likely stuck his fingers
                      in
                      > his ears, or plugged them up with dirt or whatever was handy, to
                      shut
                      > out the terrifying sounds. This was the start of man looking
                      within,
                      > and finding and listening to the inner "divine
                      harmonies", "celestial
                      > choirs", and so on, that every religion and "way" has reported from
                      > that time on. Similarly, he would have likely become much more
                      aware
                      > of his breath, and it is probable that this would have also been
                      the
                      > start of the Soham meditation, and other pranayama techniques. And
                      he
                      > also probably had his eyes shut tightly at different times and
                      would
                      > have likely eventually focused on the 3rd eye area, and the inner
                      > door to cosmic vision would have opened. All of this would have led
                      > his newly evolved frontal lobe activity to start the enquiry
                      > into "Who am I?", What is this life about", and so on. And thus
                      > meditation began and continues until this very moment. So, how come
                      > they call it "New Age"?:-)
                      > Peace and blessings,
                      > Bob

                      LOL. Yeah.

                      At some point someone had to say "Egad, eureka! This is awesome!" I
                      know I did. It was in Cincinatti.

                      Bobby G.
                    • satkartar7
                      ... ly@y... wrote: texasbg2000 wrote: snip Karta: Hi Bobby here is the sound meditation page the second one by Kirpal
                      Message 10 of 19 , May 3 10:54 AM
                        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety <no_rep=
                        ly@y...> wrote:
                        > "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
                        > snip
                        > Karta:
                        > > > Hi Bobby here is the sound meditation
                        > > > page the second one by Kirpal if you
                        > > > click on onlinebooks than on Naam
                        > > > there is more to read about the sound
                        > > > and the third you find Gurdijeff
                        > > > movement diagram 'he taught a yoga-
                        > > > dance' like magick diagramm of steps
                        > > > and movements coordinated with emotions
                        > > > .. I have to look it up: he was
                        > > > initiated to and used the nadi-sound
                        > > > of Aum also. So is Keith Richards, Erick
                        > > > Clapton Shania Twain and many musicians
                        > > > it is a great tool in meditation
                        > > >
                        > > > <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/santmat/shabd-1.html>
                        > > > <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/santmat/kirpal.html>
                        > > > <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/2/sufiart.htm>
                        > > >
                        > > > Posession by the Aum, no I don't
                        > > > think so.
                        > > >
                        > > > Love, Karta
                        >
                        > Bobby G:
                        > > Thank you Karta, it is the same meditation I have been using.
                        > >
                        > > Probably the possession thing came out of my early Baptist training
                        > > and movies.
                        > > Love
                        > > Bobby G.
                        >
                        > Hi,
                        > The fear of possession may have a much earlier origion than movies or
                        > Baptist stuff. As a matter of fact, in may be in our very oldest and
                        > deepest genetic memories. In the days before fire, a caveman probably
                        > sat in the dark shaking with fear of the roars and growls of the
                        > predators roaming around outside. He very likely stuck his fingers in
                        > his ears, or plugged them up with dirt or whatever was handy, to shut
                        > out the terrifying sounds. This was the start of man looking within,
                        > and finding and listening to the inner "divine harmonies", "celestial
                        > choirs", and so on, that every religion and "way" has reported from
                        > that time on. Similarly, he would have likely become much more aware
                        > of his breath, and it is probable that this would have also been the
                        > start of the Soham meditation, and other pranayama techniques. And he
                        > also probably had his eyes shut tightly at different times and would
                        > have likely eventually focused on the 3rd eye area, and the inner
                        > door to cosmic vision would have opened. All of this would have led
                        > his newly evolved frontal lobe activity to start the enquiry
                        > into "Who am I?", What is this life about", and so on. And thus
                        > meditation began and continues until this very moment. So, how come
                        > they call it "New Age"?:-)
                        > Peace and blessings,
                        > Bob


                        yes, fear is deep seated, Dam must
                        know a lot about this.

                        The just hatched from the eggs chiks
                        have a memory already of the fear of
                        a big-bird or eagle flying above them Experiment sowed that if the shadow o=
                        f
                        a paper kyte is above them they run
                        wild for cover chirping loudly


                        Love, Karta
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