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Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Email questions about 3rd Eye and comments during meditation

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  • Jason Fishman
    I wouldn t mind hearing ho weither of you know that it s bad? In what way does one notice the manifistation of bad or good during any practice, especially one
    Message 1 of 19 , Apr 30, 2003
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      I wouldn't mind hearing ho weither of you know that
      it's bad? In what way does one notice the
      manifistation of bad or good during any practice,
      especially one that is about the understanding neither
      state?

      Peace and Love

      --- satkartar7 <mi_nok@...> wrote:
      > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
      > "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
      > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
      > medit8ionsociety
      > > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
      > > > Dear sir,
      > > > How should we react if we come into contact with
      > evil spirits during
      > > > the 3rd eye meditation. Will the evil spirits
      > harm me and how to
      > > deal
      > > > with them.
      > > > In most of your meditating techniques featured,
      > comment must not be
      > > > done during meditation, why is it so and what
      > will happen if one
      > > > really makes comments.
      > > > Thank you.
      > > > S.H.
      > >
      > > Dear SH:
      > >
      > > That was a very real fear in me also for many
      > years, that I would be
      > > possessed if I turned loose and submitted to the
      > meditation.
      > >
      > > For me it turned out that when I said to myself
      > that I was willing to
      > > die to know what it is like to submit, that the
      > fear was overcome.
      > >
      > > This told me it was really a fear of death I was
      > recoiling from, and
      > > that the demon fear was covering my fear of death.
      > >
      > > Commenting during meditation is very similar to
      > just "knowing".
      > > Knowing is acceptable. I hope someone will
      > correct me if I am wrong
      > > about this.
      > >
      > > Love
      > > Bobby G.
      >
      >
      > I agree with you Bobby, there is
      > a death-jump like feeling before
      > leaving the mind behind..a struggle
      >
      > In Shabd Yoga Meditation they give a
      > mantra for warding off the negative
      >
      > Karta
      >
      >


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    • texasbg2000
      ... Good point Jason. I will let Karta answer from her perspective. for myself when I meditated I got to a place that seemed deep. It seemed like if I went
      Message 2 of 19 , Apr 30, 2003
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        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Jason Fishman
        <munkiman4u@y...> wrote:
        > I wouldn't mind hearing ho weither of you know that
        > it's bad? In what way does one notice the
        > manifistation of bad or good during any practice,
        > especially one that is about the understanding neither
        > state?
        >
        > Peace and Love

        Good point Jason. I will let Karta answer from her perspective.

        for myself when I meditated I got to a place that seemed deep.
        It seemed like if I went any further I would lose control. I told
        myself i was willing to die but I had to know if I had wasted my time
        and had never really been willing to face my fears. I practiced a
        small affirmation that when the time came I would not back off
        again. So I was graced with Samadhi.

        The fears were of the unknown. Like a child that does not know
        monsters of the supernatural kind do not exist because they have not
        lived enough to know, I had to learn to be brave. It seems silly now
        but the fear was like a wisp of smoke and I have not seen it since.

        The question of negative or positive has to answered in context to an
        event and not as one of the rules in an objective universe that we
        must somehow find. In that sense, thoughts during meditation are bad.

        Love
        Bobby G.

        >
        > --- satkartar7 <mi_nok@y...> wrote:
        > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
        > > "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
        > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
        > > medit8ionsociety
        > > > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
        > > > > Dear sir,
        > > > > How should we react if we come into contact with
        > > evil spirits during
        > > > > the 3rd eye meditation. Will the evil spirits
        > > harm me and how to
        > > > deal
        > > > > with them.
        > > > > In most of your meditating techniques featured,
        > > comment must not be
        > > > > done during meditation, why is it so and what
        > > will happen if one
        > > > > really makes comments.
        > > > > Thank you.
        > > > > S.H.
        > > >
        > > > Dear SH:
        > > >
        > > > That was a very real fear in me also for many
        > > years, that I would be
        > > > possessed if I turned loose and submitted to the
        > > meditation.
        > > >
        > > > For me it turned out that when I said to myself
        > > that I was willing to
        > > > die to know what it is like to submit, that the
        > > fear was overcome.
        > > >
        > > > This told me it was really a fear of death I was
        > > recoiling from, and
        > > > that the demon fear was covering my fear of death.
        > > >
        > > > Commenting during meditation is very similar to
        > > just "knowing".
        > > > Knowing is acceptable. I hope someone will
        > > correct me if I am wrong
        > > > about this.
        > > >
        > > > Love
        > > > Bobby G.
        > >
        > >
        > > I agree with you Bobby, there is
        > > a death-jump like feeling before
        > > leaving the mind behind..a struggle
        > >
        > > In Shabd Yoga Meditation they give a
        > > mantra for warding off the negative
        > >
        > > Karta
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        > __________________________________
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        > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
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      • Jason Fishman
        ... Jason: Yes depth, the shallow end of what we would all care to experience. Moving, powerful & overwhelming. As to say this is heaven or hell, either being
        Message 3 of 19 , Apr 30, 2003
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          --- texasbg2000 <Bigbobgraham@...> wrote:
          > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
          > Jason Fishman
          > <munkiman4u@y...> wrote:
          > > I wouldn't mind hearing ho weither of you know
          > that
          > > it's bad? In what way does one notice the
          > > manifistation of bad or good during any practice,
          > > especially one that is about the understanding
          > neither
          > > state?
          > >
          > > Peace and Love
          >
          > Good point Jason. I will let Karta answer from her
          > perspective.
          >
          > for myself when I meditated I got to a place that
          > seemed deep.

          Jason: Yes depth, the shallow end of what we would all
          care to experience. Moving, powerful & overwhelming.
          As to say this is heaven or hell, either being deep
          states of good or badness.

          > It seemed like if I went any further I would lose
          > control. I told
          > myself i was willing to die but I had to know if I
          > had wasted my time
          > and had never really been willing to face my fears.

          Jason: yes I understand this practice. On what one
          would call a control issue, wouldn't someone with a
          serious intent to kill, holding a gun to anothers head
          be quite the same practice? Would you say there is a
          better sense of control when one does this on their
          own?

          > I practiced a
          > small affirmation that when the time came I would
          > not back off
          > again. So I was graced with Samadhi.

          Jason: hmm, ponderous.

          > The fears were of the unknown. Like a child that
          > does not know
          > monsters of the supernatural kind do not exist
          > because they have not
          > lived enough to know, I had to learn to be brave.
          > It seems silly now
          > but the fear was like a wisp of smoke and I have not
          > seen it since.
          >
          > The question of negative or positive has to answered
          > in context to an
          > event and not as one of the rules in an objective
          > universe that we
          > must somehow find. In that sense, thoughts during
          > meditation are bad.

          Jason: I see, some thoughts outloud we share, thank
          you! Fear of the unknown, the demon of all goodness
          perhaps?

          > Love
          > Bobby G.

          Peace and Love

          __________________________________
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          The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
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        • texasbg2000
          ... No, not my meaning. With deep meditation at least in my case, thoughts slow and very few ideas are presented. The recurring one was will I be posessed,
          Message 4 of 19 , Apr 30, 2003
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            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Jason Fishman
            <munkiman4u@y...> wrote:

            > > > I wouldn't mind hearing how either of you know
            > > that
            > > > it's bad? In what way does one notice the
            > > > manifistation of bad or good during any practice,
            > > > especially one that is about the understanding
            > > neither
            > > > state?
            > > >
            > > > Peace and Love
            > >
            > > Good point Jason. I will let Karta answer from her
            > > perspective.
            > >
            > > for myself when I meditated I got to a place that
            > > seemed deep.
            >
            > Jason: Yes depth, the shallow end of what we would all
            > care to experience. Moving, powerful & overwhelming.
            > As to say this is heaven or hell, either being deep
            > states of good or badness.

            No, not my meaning. With deep meditation at least in my case,
            thoughts slow and very few ideas are presented. The recurring one
            was will I be posessed, i.e., is the idea of meditation a misleading
            conspiracy to get people to submit to a loss of control of themselves.

            I found that idea to be wrong but only after I was 'at the end of my
            rope'.

            >
            > > It seemed like if I went any further I would lose
            > > control. I told
            > > myself i was willing to die but I had to know if I
            > > had wasted my time
            > > and had never really been willing to face my fears.
            >
            > Jason: yes I understand this practice. On what one
            > would call a control issue, wouldn't someone with a
            > serious intent to kill, holding a gun to anothers head
            > be quite the same practice? Would you say there is a
            > better sense of control when one does this on their
            > own?

            could you go into this a little more? I dont understand your meaning.
            I actually sat down and waited to die.

            >
            > > I practiced a
            > > small affirmation that when the time came I would
            > > not back off
            > > again. So I was graced with Samadhi.
            >
            > Jason: hmm, ponderous.

            I have done this a lot, get prepared for thoughts that I expect to
            return. You seem critical? Could you explain please?

            >
            > > The fears were of the unknown. Like a child that
            > > does not know
            > > monsters of the supernatural kind do not exist
            > > because they have not
            > > lived enough to know, I had to learn to be brave.
            > > It seems silly now
            > > but the fear was like a wisp of smoke and I have not
            > > seen it since.
            > >
            > > The question of negative or positive has to answered
            > > in context to an
            > > event and not as one of the rules in an objective
            > > universe that we
            > > must somehow find. In that sense, thoughts during
            > > meditation are bad.
            >
            > Jason: I see, some thoughts outloud we share, thank
            > you! Fear of the unknown, the demon of all goodness
            > perhaps?

            I don't see goodness as an entity and as I explained I gave up the
            possibility of the demon.

            > Peace and Love
            >
            Love
            Bobby G.
          • Jason Fishman
            ... Jason: OK, I see the conspiracy side of thought as though to say something is being done to you. i.e. another putting the thought in your head that
            Message 5 of 19 , Apr 30, 2003
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              > > Jason: Yes depth, the shallow end of what we would
              > all
              > > care to experience. Moving, powerful &
              > overwhelming.
              > > As to say this is heaven or hell, either being
              > deep
              > > states of good or badness.
              >
              > No, not my meaning. With deep meditation at least
              > in my case,
              > thoughts slow and very few ideas are presented. The
              > recurring one
              > was will I be posessed, i.e., is the idea of
              > meditation a misleading
              > conspiracy to get people to submit to a loss of
              > control of themselves.
              >
              > I found that idea to be wrong but only after I was
              > 'at the end of my
              > rope'.

              Jason: OK, I see the conspiracy side of thought as
              though to say something is being done to you. i.e.
              another putting the thought in your head that
              meditation is lovely, only to find out that it's a way
              for another to control you (a demon, let's say).
              Although, I do still question the control side, as to
              say you are doing something to yourself or for
              yourself. In the case of meditation, is the act of
              meditation giving you something (either positive or
              negative)? As to say does the peace you feel during
              deep meditation give rise to a good feeling (not
              thoughts in words, just feeling) Let's not address the
              in between thought for now, as to say neti, neti.

              > >
              > > > It seemed like if I went any further I would
              > lose
              > > > control. I told
              > > > myself i was willing to die but I had to know if
              > I
              > > > had wasted my time
              > > > and had never really been willing to face my
              > fears.
              > >
              > > Jason: yes I understand this practice. On what one
              > > would call a control issue, wouldn't someone with
              > a
              > > serious intent to kill, holding a gun to anothers
              > head
              > > be quite the same practice? Would you say there is
              > a
              > > better sense of control when one does this on
              > their
              > > own?
              >
              > could you go into this a little more? I dont
              > understand your meaning.
              > I actually sat down and waited to die.

              Jason: What is ment here is, is sitting and waiting to
              die something other then have someone force your
              eminent death apon you. Does this waiting to die seem
              to give you the control as opposed to another taking
              your life? If, so... Does this thought that you
              control the outcome give you benift?

              I have succumb to my own death in both situations, so
              for me neither feel different, nor does there seem to
              be a benifit or non-benifit to this illusion of an
              end.

              > >
              > > > I practiced a
              > > > small affirmation that when the time came I
              > would
              > > > not back off
              > > > again. So I was graced with Samadhi.
              > >
              > > Jason: hmm, ponderous.
              >
              > I have done this a lot, get prepared for thoughts
              > that I expect to
              > return. You seem critical? Could you explain
              > please?

              Jason: The affirmation, that one will not back-off
              next time. I was thinking about this backing off, this
              letting go and again it seems to me a non-choice, nor
              does it provide a benifit to partake in such a
              practice.

              Such to say that you can do everything imaginable to
              remove the fear that you don't know whats around the
              corner. There still remains enough suprises around the
              corner to keep taht fear in check.

              Much like going around the block to meet your
              neighbors, you never know if you will be welcomed or
              not. So there is a sense that you may not be, even if
              you've been around the block a million times. There is
              still enough unwelcoming to keep it interesting.


              > >
              > > > The fears were of the unknown. Like a child
              > that
              > > > does not know
              > > > monsters of the supernatural kind do not exist
              > > > because they have not
              > > > lived enough to know, I had to learn to be
              > brave.
              > > > It seems silly now
              > > > but the fear was like a wisp of smoke and I have
              > not
              > > > seen it since.
              > > >
              > > > The question of negative or positive has to
              > answered
              > > > in context to an
              > > > event and not as one of the rules in an
              > objective
              > > > universe that we
              > > > must somehow find. In that sense, thoughts
              > during
              > > > meditation are bad.
              > >
              > > Jason: I see, some thoughts outloud we share,
              > thank
              > > you! Fear of the unknown, the demon of all
              > goodness
              > > perhaps?
              >
              > I don't see goodness as an entity and as I explained
              > I gave up the
              > possibility of the demon.

              Jason: I understand. Although it is most certain to me
              that people don't care for each other (or for things),
              not in the least, until a moment arises when the other
              can do something to benifit them, then they care
              deeply. What really could be exposed is this knowing
              of oneself and of others, this may aid in the fight
              against the demons of understanding motivations and
              interplay in any relational experience. Even though
              people walk around saying things like "she/he loves me
              for me" or "he/she doesn't care", the bottom line is
              that they don't care until they do. Who am I? A
              selfish person, until those that benifit me are
              clearly understood, regardless of any past or future
              interplay. Death seems beyond a sense of self and is
              also prior to any senses. Nothing begins nor does it
              end, so I guess this is the end of another begining:)

              > > Peace and Love
              > >
              > Love
              > Bobby G.
              >
              >


              __________________________________
              Do you Yahoo!?
              The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
              http://search.yahoo.com
            • texasbg2000
              ... Isn t this a different topic. That of is meditation helpful? I believe meditating makes you better at meditation. ... The idea of control is slippery.
              Message 6 of 19 , Apr 30, 2003
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                --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Jason Fishman
                <munkiman4u@y...> wrote:
                >
                > > > Jason: Yes depth, the shallow end of what we would
                > > all
                > > > care to experience. Moving, powerful &
                > > overwhelming.
                > > > As to say this is heaven or hell, either being
                > > deep
                > > > states of good or badness.
                > >
                > > No, not my meaning. With deep meditation at least
                > > in my case,
                > > thoughts slow and very few ideas are presented. The
                > > recurring one
                > > was will I be posessed, i.e., is the idea of
                > > meditation a misleading
                > > conspiracy to get people to submit to a loss of
                > > control of themselves.
                > >
                > > I found that idea to be wrong but only after I was
                > > 'at the end of my
                > > rope'.
                >
                > Jason: OK, I see the conspiracy side of thought as
                > though to say something is being done to you. i.e.
                > another putting the thought in your head that
                > meditation is lovely, only to find out that it's a way
                > for another to control you (a demon, let's say).
                > Although, I do still question the control side, as to
                > say you are doing something to yourself or for
                > yourself. In the case of meditation, is the act of
                > meditation giving you something (either positive or
                > negative)? As to say does the peace you feel during
                > deep meditation give rise to a good feeling (not
                > thoughts in words, just feeling) Let's not address the
                > in between thought for now, as to say neti, neti.
                >

                Isn't this a different topic. That of 'is meditation helpful?' I
                believe meditating makes you better at meditation.

                > > >
                > > > > It seemed like if I went any further I would
                > > lose
                > > > > control. I told
                > > > > myself i was willing to die but I had to know if
                > > I
                > > > > had wasted my time
                > > > > and had never really been willing to face my
                > > fears.
                > > >
                > > > Jason: yes I understand this practice. On what one
                > > > would call a control issue, wouldn't someone with
                > > a
                > > > serious intent to kill, holding a gun to anothers
                > > head
                > > > be quite the same practice? Would you say there is
                > > a
                > > > better sense of control when one does this on
                > > their
                > > > own?
                > >
                > > could you go into this a little more? I dont
                > > understand your meaning.
                > > I actually sat down and waited to die.
                >
                > Jason: What is ment here is, is sitting and waiting to
                > die something other then have someone force your
                > eminent death apon you. Does this waiting to die seem
                > to give you the control as opposed to another taking
                > your life? If, so... Does this thought that you
                > control the outcome give you benift?

                The idea of control is slippery. "Controlling the senses" sounds
                like an act of doing something but in fact is the act of not doing
                anything: not being influenced in any way enough to let the senses
                take focus from meditation.

                Submitting to fear is different in type than submitting to a loss of
                control, which is in effect, control of the senses.

                Eminent death is different. It is said that even the sages quake
                when death is near.

                >
                > I have succumb to my own death in both situations, so
                > for me neither feel different, nor does there seem to
                > be a benifit or non-benifit to this illusion of an
                > end.
                >
                > > >
                > > > > I practiced a
                > > > > small affirmation that when the time came I
                > > would
                > > > > not back off
                > > > > again. So I was graced with Samadhi.
                > > >
                > > > Jason: hmm, ponderous.
                > >
                > > I have done this a lot, get prepared for thoughts
                > > that I expect to
                > > return. You seem critical? Could you explain
                > > please?
                >
                > Jason: The affirmation, that one will not back-off
                > next time. I was thinking about this backing off, this
                > letting go and again it seems to me a non-choice, nor
                > does it provide a benifit to partake in such a
                > practice.
                >
                > Such to say that you can do everything imaginable to
                > remove the fear that you don't know whats around the
                > corner. There still remains enough suprises around the
                > corner to keep taht fear in check.
                >
                > Much like going around the block to meet your
                > neighbors, you never know if you will be welcomed or
                > not. So there is a sense that you may not be, even if
                > you've been around the block a million times. There is
                > still enough unwelcoming to keep it interesting.

                I believed in the love and wisdom I read and experienced and I saw
                too much system leading forward and this helped me lose fear.

                The fear dwindled I think because it was not about a real thing and
                reality had grown more present in my life. Of course fear of the
                unknown disappears entirely when it is seen to be unfounded.

                The main point is that fear of being possessed was for me a diversion
                from the real fear. The fear of death is a big one and too massive
                to confront so I substituted something I could handle, the fear of
                possession.

                >
                > > >
                > > > > The fears were of the unknown. Like a child
                > > that
                > > > > does not know
                > > > > monsters of the supernatural kind do not exist
                > > > > because they have not
                > > > > lived enough to know, I had to learn to be
                > > brave.
                > > > > It seems silly now
                > > > > but the fear was like a wisp of smoke and I have
                > > not
                > > > > seen it since.
                > > > >
                > > > > The question of negative or positive has to
                > > answered
                > > > > in context to an
                > > > > event and not as one of the rules in an
                > > objective
                > > > > universe that we
                > > > > must somehow find. In that sense, thoughts
                > > during
                > > > > meditation are bad.
                > > >
                > > > Jason: I see, some thoughts outloud we share,
                > > thank
                > > > you! Fear of the unknown, the demon of all
                > > goodness
                > > > perhaps?
                > >
                > > I don't see goodness as an entity and as I explained
                > > I gave up the
                > > possibility of the demon.
                >
                > Jason: I understand. Although it is most certain to me
                > that people don't care for each other (or for things),
                > not in the least, until a moment arises when the other
                > can do something to benifit them, then they care
                > deeply. What really could be exposed is this knowing
                > of oneself and of others, this may aid in the fight
                > against the demons of understanding motivations and
                > interplay in any relational experience. Even though
                > people walk around saying things like "she/he loves me
                > for me" or "he/she doesn't care", the bottom line is
                > that they don't care until they do. Who am I? A
                > selfish person, until those that benifit me are
                > clearly understood, regardless of any past or future
                > interplay. Death seems beyond a sense of self and is
                > also prior to any senses. Nothing begins nor does it
                > end, so I guess this is the end of another begining:)

                I found that I love the truth. It is the simple act of knowing and
                it is the greatest gift of all. I don't think it is important if
                that is selfish or not.

                I do things for selfish reasons sometimes but when I find myself
                lying to myself to continue doing that thing then my tendency is to
                stop the lie and give up the benefit. That that gives me a greater
                benefit is beside the point.

                Love
                Bobby G.
              • satkartar7
                ... in this case Jason, it is just the same, since the moment of breaking meditation alreay happened: with the notice of negativity later, when out of
                Message 7 of 19 , May 1, 2003
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                  Jason Fishman <munkiman4u@y...> wrote:
                  > I wouldn't mind hearing ho weither of you know that
                  > it's bad? In what way does one notice the
                  > manifistation of bad or good during any practice,
                  > especially one that is about the understanding neither
                  > state?
                  >
                  > Peace and Love
                  >


                  in this case Jason, it is just the
                  same, since the moment of breaking meditation alreay happened: with
                  the notice of negativity

                  later, when "out" of meditation it is
                  a good thing to do vichara: "why did,
                  and why that type of negative entity
                  appear, and what does it mean"

                  it is usually one's supressed sub
                  conscious mind manifesting [a painful
                  uggly mirror, but must be done]

                  Karta



                  > --- satkartar7 <mi_nok@y...> wrote:
                  > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                  > > "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
                  > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                  > > medit8ionsociety
                  > > > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                  > > > > Dear sir,
                  > > > > How should we react if we come into contact with
                  > > evil spirits during
                  > > > > the 3rd eye meditation. Will the evil spirits
                  > > harm me and how to
                  > > > deal
                  > > > > with them.
                  > > > > In most of your meditating techniques featured,
                  > > comment must not be
                  > > > > done during meditation, why is it so and what
                  > > will happen if one
                  > > > > really makes comments.
                  > > > > Thank you.
                  > > > > S.H.
                  > > >
                  > > > Dear SH:
                  > > >
                  > > > That was a very real fear in me also for many
                  > > years, that I would be
                  > > > possessed if I turned loose and submitted to the
                  > > meditation.
                  > > >
                  > > > For me it turned out that when I said to myself
                  > > that I was willing to
                  > > > die to know what it is like to submit, that the
                  > > fear was overcome.
                  > > >
                  > > > This told me it was really a fear of death I was
                  > > recoiling from, and
                  > > > that the demon fear was covering my fear of death.
                  > > >
                  > > > Commenting during meditation is very similar to
                  > > just "knowing".
                  > > > Knowing is acceptable. I hope someone will
                  > > correct me if I am wrong
                  > > > about this.
                  > > >
                  > > > Love
                  > > > Bobby G.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > I agree with you Bobby, there is
                  > > a death-jump like feeling before
                  > > leaving the mind behind..a struggle
                  > >
                  > > In Shabd Yoga Meditation they give a
                  > > mantra for warding off the negative
                  > >
                  > > Karta
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  > __________________________________
                  > Do you Yahoo!?
                  > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
                  > http://search.yahoo.com
                • satkartar7
                  ... yes, Bobby, the death-jump [leaving the mind behind for deeper cleaning ] in meditation is hard very hard and here lies the genius of the sound part of
                  Message 8 of 19 , May 1, 2003
                  • 0 Attachment
                    "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
                    > --- In Jason Fishman
                    > <munkiman4u@y...> wrote:
                    > > I wouldn't mind hearing ho weither of you know that
                    > > it's bad? In what way does one notice the
                    > > manifistation of bad or good during any practice,
                    > > especially one that is about the understanding neither
                    > > state?
                    > >
                    > > Peace and Love
                    >
                    > Good point Jason. I will let Karta answer from her perspective.
                    >
                    > for myself when I meditated I got to a place that seemed deep.
                    > It seemed like if I went any further I would lose control. I told
                    > myself i was willing to die but I had to know if I had wasted my time
                    > and had never really been willing to face my fears.


                    yes, Bobby, the "death-jump" [leaving
                    the "mind" behind for deeper"cleaning"]
                    in meditation is hard very hard and
                    here lies the genius of the sound
                    part of the Sabd Yoga meditation,
                    sinc it does mesmerize one: no place
                    for any cognition and before you
                    "notice" .. you are on the way

                    Love, Karta


                    > I practiced a
                    > small affirmation that when the time came I would not back off
                    > again. So I was graced with Samadhi.
                    >
                    > The fears were of the unknown. Like a child that does not know
                    > monsters of the supernatural kind do not exist because they have not
                    > lived enough to know, I had to learn to be brave. It seems silly now
                    > but the fear was like a wisp of smoke and I have not seen it since.
                    >
                    > The question of negative or positive has to answered in context to an
                    > event and not as one of the rules in an objective universe that we
                    > must somehow find. In that sense, thoughts during meditation are bad.
                    >
                    > Love
                    > Bobby G.
                    >
                    > >
                    > > --- satkartar7 <mi_nok@y...> wrote:
                    > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                    > > > "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
                    > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                    > > > medit8ionsociety
                    > > > > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                    > > > > > Dear sir,
                    > > > > > How should we react if we come into contact with
                    > > > evil spirits during
                    > > > > > the 3rd eye meditation. Will the evil spirits
                    > > > harm me and how to
                    > > > > deal
                    > > > > > with them.
                    > > > > > In most of your meditating techniques featured,
                    > > > comment must not be
                    > > > > > done during meditation, why is it so and what
                    > > > will happen if one
                    > > > > > really makes comments.
                    > > > > > Thank you.
                    > > > > > S.H.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Dear SH:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > That was a very real fear in me also for many
                    > > > years, that I would be
                    > > > > possessed if I turned loose and submitted to the
                    > > > meditation.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > For me it turned out that when I said to myself
                    > > > that I was willing to
                    > > > > die to know what it is like to submit, that the
                    > > > fear was overcome.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > This told me it was really a fear of death I was
                    > > > recoiling from, and
                    > > > > that the demon fear was covering my fear of death.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Commenting during meditation is very similar to
                    > > > just "knowing".
                    > > > > Knowing is acceptable. I hope someone will
                    > > > correct me if I am wrong
                    > > > > about this.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Love
                    > > > > Bobby G.
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > I agree with you Bobby, there is
                    > > > a death-jump like feeling before
                    > > > leaving the mind behind..a struggle
                    > > >
                    > > > In Shabd Yoga Meditation they give a
                    > > > mantra for warding off the negative
                    > > >
                    > > > Karta
                  • texasbg2000
                    ... time ... hi Karta: Could you post that Sabd Yoga meditation? I have a sound meditation where the sound is always present and I can hear it even when
                    Message 9 of 19 , May 1, 2003
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                      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "satkartar7"
                      <mi_nok@y...> wrote:
                      > "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
                      > > --- In Jason Fishman
                      > > <munkiman4u@y...> wrote:
                      > > > I wouldn't mind hearing ho weither of you know that
                      > > > it's bad? In what way does one notice the
                      > > > manifistation of bad or good during any practice,
                      > > > especially one that is about the understanding neither
                      > > > state?
                      > > >
                      > > > Peace and Love
                      > >
                      > > Good point Jason. I will let Karta answer from her perspective.
                      > >
                      > > for myself when I meditated I got to a place that seemed deep.
                      > > It seemed like if I went any further I would lose control. I told
                      > > myself i was willing to die but I had to know if I had wasted my
                      time
                      > > and had never really been willing to face my fears.
                      >
                      >
                      > yes, Bobby, the "death-jump" [leaving
                      > the "mind" behind for deeper"cleaning"]
                      > in meditation is hard very hard and
                      > here lies the genius of the sound
                      > part of the Sabd Yoga meditation,
                      > sinc it does mesmerize one: no place
                      > for any cognition and before you
                      > "notice" .. you are on the way
                      >
                      > Love, Karta

                      hi Karta:

                      Could you post that Sabd Yoga meditation? I have a sound meditation
                      where the sound is always present and I can hear it even when talking
                      or listening. Is it similar to that? Even with it the fear of
                      possession bumped me many times.

                      Bobby G.

                      >
                      >
                      > > I practiced a
                      > > small affirmation that when the time came I would not back off
                      > > again. So I was graced with Samadhi.
                      > >
                      > > The fears were of the unknown. Like a child that does not know
                      > > monsters of the supernatural kind do not exist because they have
                      not
                      > > lived enough to know, I had to learn to be brave. It seems silly
                      now
                      > > but the fear was like a wisp of smoke and I have not seen it
                      since.
                      > >
                      > > The question of negative or positive has to answered in context
                      to an
                      > > event and not as one of the rules in an objective universe that
                      we
                      > > must somehow find. In that sense, thoughts during meditation are
                      bad.
                      > >
                      > > Love
                      > > Bobby G.
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > > > --- satkartar7 <mi_nok@y...> wrote:
                      > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                      > > > > "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
                      > > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                      > > > > medit8ionsociety
                      > > > > > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                      > > > > > > Dear sir,
                      > > > > > > How should we react if we come into contact with
                      > > > > evil spirits during
                      > > > > > > the 3rd eye meditation. Will the evil spirits
                      > > > > harm me and how to
                      > > > > > deal
                      > > > > > > with them.
                      > > > > > > In most of your meditating techniques featured,
                      > > > > comment must not be
                      > > > > > > done during meditation, why is it so and what
                      > > > > will happen if one
                      > > > > > > really makes comments.
                      > > > > > > Thank you.
                      > > > > > > S.H.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Dear SH:
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > That was a very real fear in me also for many
                      > > > > years, that I would be
                      > > > > > possessed if I turned loose and submitted to the
                      > > > > meditation.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > For me it turned out that when I said to myself
                      > > > > that I was willing to
                      > > > > > die to know what it is like to submit, that the
                      > > > > fear was overcome.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > This told me it was really a fear of death I was
                      > > > > recoiling from, and
                      > > > > > that the demon fear was covering my fear of death.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Commenting during meditation is very similar to
                      > > > > just "knowing".
                      > > > > > Knowing is acceptable. I hope someone will
                      > > > > correct me if I am wrong
                      > > > > > about this.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Love
                      > > > > > Bobby G.
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I agree with you Bobby, there is
                      > > > > a death-jump like feeling before
                      > > > > leaving the mind behind..a struggle
                      > > > >
                      > > > > In Shabd Yoga Meditation they give a
                      > > > > mantra for warding off the negative
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Karta
                    • Jason Fishman
                      ... Jason: Why only in this case? Would you say that meditation is broken by negativity? ... Jason: I don t believe I suffer from this reflection you speak
                      Message 10 of 19 , May 1, 2003
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                        --- satkartar7 <mi_nok@...> wrote:
                        > Jason Fishman <munkiman4u@y...> wrote:
                        > > I wouldn't mind hearing ho weither of you know
                        > that
                        > > it's bad? In what way does one notice the
                        > > manifistation of bad or good during any practice,
                        > > especially one that is about the understanding
                        > neither
                        > > state?
                        > >
                        > > Peace and Love
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        > in this case Jason, it is just the
                        > same, since the moment of breaking meditation
                        > alreay happened: with
                        > the notice of negativity

                        Jason: Why only in this case? Would you say that
                        meditation is broken by negativity?

                        > later, when "out" of meditation it is
                        > a good thing to do vichara: "why did,
                        > and why that type of negative entity
                        > appear, and what does it mean"

                        Jason: I don't believe I suffer from this reflection
                        you speak of.. This giving meaning to why something
                        occured. In relfection however, I once did this
                        extensively.

                        > it is usually one's supressed sub
                        > conscious mind manifesting [a painful
                        > uggly mirror, but must be done]

                        Jason: I actually enjoy the painful, ugly mirror. It
                        makes sense to me, since everyone outside is the ugly
                        reflection of my insides that I would love to
                        confront, yet I can't seem to find anywhere in my
                        world.

                        Thanks Karta

                        Peace and Love

                        > Karta


                        __________________________________
                        Do you Yahoo!?
                        The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
                        http://search.yahoo.com
                      • satkartar7
                        ... Hi Bobby here is the sound meditation page the second one by Kirpal if you click on onlinebooks than on Naam there is more to read about the sound and the
                        Message 11 of 19 , May 2, 2003
                        • 0 Attachment
                          > hi Karta:
                          >
                          > Could you post that Sabd Yoga meditation? I have a sound meditation
                          > where the sound is always present and I can hear it even when talking
                          > or listening. Is it similar to that? Even with it the fear of
                          > possession bumped me many times.
                          >
                          > Bobby G.
                          >

                          Hi Bobby here is the sound meditation
                          page the second one by Kirpal if you
                          click on onlinebooks than on Naam
                          there is more to read about the sound
                          and the third you find Gurdijeff
                          movement diagram 'he taught a yoga-
                          dance' like magick diagramm of steps
                          and movements coordinated with emotions
                          .. I have to look it up: he was
                          initiated to and used the nadi-sound
                          of Aum also. So is Keith Richards, Erick
                          Clapton Shania Twain and many musicians
                          it is a great tool in meditation

                          <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/santmat/shabd-1.html>
                          <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/santmat/kirpal.html>
                          <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/2/sufiart.htm>

                          Posession by the Aum, no I don't
                          think so.

                          Love, Karta
                        • texasbg2000
                          ... meditation ... talking ... Thank you Karta, it is the same meditation I have been using. Probably the possession thing came out of my early Baptist
                          Message 12 of 19 , May 2, 2003
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                            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "satkartar7"
                            <mi_nok@y...> wrote:
                            > > hi Karta:
                            > >
                            > > Could you post that Sabd Yoga meditation? I have a sound
                            meditation
                            > > where the sound is always present and I can hear it even when
                            talking
                            > > or listening. Is it similar to that? Even with it the fear of
                            > > possession bumped me many times.
                            > >
                            > > Bobby G.
                            > >
                            >
                            > Hi Bobby here is the sound meditation
                            > page the second one by Kirpal if you
                            > click on onlinebooks than on Naam
                            > there is more to read about the sound
                            > and the third you find Gurdijeff
                            > movement diagram 'he taught a yoga-
                            > dance' like magick diagramm of steps
                            > and movements coordinated with emotions
                            > .. I have to look it up: he was
                            > initiated to and used the nadi-sound
                            > of Aum also. So is Keith Richards, Erick
                            > Clapton Shania Twain and many musicians
                            > it is a great tool in meditation
                            >
                            > <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/santmat/shabd-1.html>
                            > <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/santmat/kirpal.html>
                            > <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/2/sufiart.htm>
                            >
                            > Posession by the Aum, no I don't
                            > think so.
                            >
                            > Love, Karta

                            Thank you Karta, it is the same meditation I have been using.

                            Probably the possession thing came out of my early Baptist training
                            and movies.
                            Love
                            Bobby G.
                          • medit8ionsociety
                            texasbg2000 wrote: snip ... Hi, The fear of possession may have a much earlier origion than movies or Baptist stuff. As a matter of fact,
                            Message 13 of 19 , May 2, 2003
                            • 0 Attachment
                              "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
                              snip
                              Karta:
                              > > Hi Bobby here is the sound meditation
                              > > page the second one by Kirpal if you
                              > > click on onlinebooks than on Naam
                              > > there is more to read about the sound
                              > > and the third you find Gurdijeff
                              > > movement diagram 'he taught a yoga-
                              > > dance' like magick diagramm of steps
                              > > and movements coordinated with emotions
                              > > .. I have to look it up: he was
                              > > initiated to and used the nadi-sound
                              > > of Aum also. So is Keith Richards, Erick
                              > > Clapton Shania Twain and many musicians
                              > > it is a great tool in meditation
                              > >
                              > > <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/santmat/shabd-1.html>
                              > > <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/santmat/kirpal.html>
                              > > <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/2/sufiart.htm>
                              > >
                              > > Posession by the Aum, no I don't
                              > > think so.
                              > >
                              > > Love, Karta

                              Bobby G:
                              > Thank you Karta, it is the same meditation I have been using.
                              >
                              > Probably the possession thing came out of my early Baptist training
                              > and movies.
                              > Love
                              > Bobby G.

                              Hi,
                              The fear of possession may have a much earlier origion than movies or
                              Baptist stuff. As a matter of fact, in may be in our very oldest and
                              deepest genetic memories. In the days before fire, a caveman probably
                              sat in the dark shaking with fear of the roars and growls of the
                              predators roaming around outside. He very likely stuck his fingers in
                              his ears, or plugged them up with dirt or whatever was handy, to shut
                              out the terrifying sounds. This was the start of man looking within,
                              and finding and listening to the inner "divine harmonies", "celestial
                              choirs", and so on, that every religion and "way" has reported from
                              that time on. Similarly, he would have likely become much more aware
                              of his breath, and it is probable that this would have also been the
                              start of the Soham meditation, and other pranayama techniques. And he
                              also probably had his eyes shut tightly at different times and would
                              have likely eventually focused on the 3rd eye area, and the inner
                              door to cosmic vision would have opened. All of this would have led
                              his newly evolved frontal lobe activity to start the enquiry
                              into "Who am I?", What is this life about", and so on. And thus
                              meditation began and continues until this very moment. So, how come
                              they call it "New Age"?:-)
                              Peace and blessings,
                              Bob
                            • texasbg2000
                              ... training ... or ... and ... probably ... in ... shut ... within, ... harmonies , celestial ... aware ... the ... he ... would ... LOL. Yeah. At some
                              Message 14 of 19 , May 2, 2003
                              • 0 Attachment
                                --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
                                <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                                > "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
                                > snip
                                > Karta:
                                > > > Hi Bobby here is the sound meditation
                                > > > page the second one by Kirpal if you
                                > > > click on onlinebooks than on Naam
                                > > > there is more to read about the sound
                                > > > and the third you find Gurdijeff
                                > > > movement diagram 'he taught a yoga-
                                > > > dance' like magick diagramm of steps
                                > > > and movements coordinated with emotions
                                > > > .. I have to look it up: he was
                                > > > initiated to and used the nadi-sound
                                > > > of Aum also. So is Keith Richards, Erick
                                > > > Clapton Shania Twain and many musicians
                                > > > it is a great tool in meditation
                                > > >
                                > > > <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/santmat/shabd-1.html>
                                > > > <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/santmat/kirpal.html>
                                > > > <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/2/sufiart.htm>
                                > > >
                                > > > Posession by the Aum, no I don't
                                > > > think so.
                                > > >
                                > > > Love, Karta
                                >
                                > Bobby G:
                                > > Thank you Karta, it is the same meditation I have been using.
                                > >
                                > > Probably the possession thing came out of my early Baptist
                                training
                                > > and movies.
                                > > Love
                                > > Bobby G.
                                >
                                > Hi,
                                > The fear of possession may have a much earlier origion than movies
                                or
                                > Baptist stuff. As a matter of fact, in may be in our very oldest
                                and
                                > deepest genetic memories. In the days before fire, a caveman
                                probably
                                > sat in the dark shaking with fear of the roars and growls of the
                                > predators roaming around outside. He very likely stuck his fingers
                                in
                                > his ears, or plugged them up with dirt or whatever was handy, to
                                shut
                                > out the terrifying sounds. This was the start of man looking
                                within,
                                > and finding and listening to the inner "divine
                                harmonies", "celestial
                                > choirs", and so on, that every religion and "way" has reported from
                                > that time on. Similarly, he would have likely become much more
                                aware
                                > of his breath, and it is probable that this would have also been
                                the
                                > start of the Soham meditation, and other pranayama techniques. And
                                he
                                > also probably had his eyes shut tightly at different times and
                                would
                                > have likely eventually focused on the 3rd eye area, and the inner
                                > door to cosmic vision would have opened. All of this would have led
                                > his newly evolved frontal lobe activity to start the enquiry
                                > into "Who am I?", What is this life about", and so on. And thus
                                > meditation began and continues until this very moment. So, how come
                                > they call it "New Age"?:-)
                                > Peace and blessings,
                                > Bob

                                LOL. Yeah.

                                At some point someone had to say "Egad, eureka! This is awesome!" I
                                know I did. It was in Cincinatti.

                                Bobby G.
                              • satkartar7
                                ... ly@y... wrote: texasbg2000 wrote: snip Karta: Hi Bobby here is the sound meditation page the second one by Kirpal
                                Message 15 of 19 , May 3, 2003
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety <no_rep=
                                  ly@y...> wrote:
                                  > "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
                                  > snip
                                  > Karta:
                                  > > > Hi Bobby here is the sound meditation
                                  > > > page the second one by Kirpal if you
                                  > > > click on onlinebooks than on Naam
                                  > > > there is more to read about the sound
                                  > > > and the third you find Gurdijeff
                                  > > > movement diagram 'he taught a yoga-
                                  > > > dance' like magick diagramm of steps
                                  > > > and movements coordinated with emotions
                                  > > > .. I have to look it up: he was
                                  > > > initiated to and used the nadi-sound
                                  > > > of Aum also. So is Keith Richards, Erick
                                  > > > Clapton Shania Twain and many musicians
                                  > > > it is a great tool in meditation
                                  > > >
                                  > > > <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/santmat/shabd-1.html>
                                  > > > <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/santmat/kirpal.html>
                                  > > > <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/2/sufiart.htm>
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Posession by the Aum, no I don't
                                  > > > think so.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Love, Karta
                                  >
                                  > Bobby G:
                                  > > Thank you Karta, it is the same meditation I have been using.
                                  > >
                                  > > Probably the possession thing came out of my early Baptist training
                                  > > and movies.
                                  > > Love
                                  > > Bobby G.
                                  >
                                  > Hi,
                                  > The fear of possession may have a much earlier origion than movies or
                                  > Baptist stuff. As a matter of fact, in may be in our very oldest and
                                  > deepest genetic memories. In the days before fire, a caveman probably
                                  > sat in the dark shaking with fear of the roars and growls of the
                                  > predators roaming around outside. He very likely stuck his fingers in
                                  > his ears, or plugged them up with dirt or whatever was handy, to shut
                                  > out the terrifying sounds. This was the start of man looking within,
                                  > and finding and listening to the inner "divine harmonies", "celestial
                                  > choirs", and so on, that every religion and "way" has reported from
                                  > that time on. Similarly, he would have likely become much more aware
                                  > of his breath, and it is probable that this would have also been the
                                  > start of the Soham meditation, and other pranayama techniques. And he
                                  > also probably had his eyes shut tightly at different times and would
                                  > have likely eventually focused on the 3rd eye area, and the inner
                                  > door to cosmic vision would have opened. All of this would have led
                                  > his newly evolved frontal lobe activity to start the enquiry
                                  > into "Who am I?", What is this life about", and so on. And thus
                                  > meditation began and continues until this very moment. So, how come
                                  > they call it "New Age"?:-)
                                  > Peace and blessings,
                                  > Bob


                                  yes, fear is deep seated, Dam must
                                  know a lot about this.

                                  The just hatched from the eggs chiks
                                  have a memory already of the fear of
                                  a big-bird or eagle flying above them Experiment sowed that if the shadow o=
                                  f
                                  a paper kyte is above them they run
                                  wild for cover chirping loudly


                                  Love, Karta
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