Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Email questions about 3rd Eye and comments during meditation

Expand Messages
  • jodyrrr
    ... Evil spirits have no power *whatsoever* over you. *NONE* You are the Self, the ground of all being. How can a mere wisp of the astral affect that? It is
    Message 1 of 19 , Apr 29, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
      <no_reply@y...> wrote:
      > Dear sir,
      > How should we react if we come into contact with evil spirits during
      > the 3rd eye meditation. Will the evil spirits harm me and how to deal
      > with them.

      Evil spirits have no power *whatsoever* over you. *NONE*
      You are the Self, the ground of all being. How can a mere
      wisp of the astral affect that?

      It is only through a fear of spirits that some problems may
      arise. If you clear yourself of fear by trusting in complete
      surrender to your personal higher power, you'll have nothing
      to worry about.

      > In most of your meditating techniques featured, comment must not be
      > done during meditation, why is it so and what will happen if one
      > really makes comments.

      Thinking during meditation is thinking, not meditation. Meditation
      is usually about seeing thinking for what it is, the container of a
      person's idea of who they are. Meditation seeks to clear the mind
      of this very idea, which is based in a constellation of self-regarding
      thinking.

      Commenting during one's meditation can reinforce this self-regard,
      thus diluting any beneficial effects one may otherwise gain from the
      practice.

      > Thank you.
      > S.H.

      Good luck S.H.

      --jody.
    • texasbg2000
      ... deal ... Dear SH: That was a very real fear in me also for many years, that I would be possessed if I turned loose and submitted to the meditation. For me
      Message 2 of 19 , Apr 30, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
        <no_reply@y...> wrote:
        > Dear sir,
        > How should we react if we come into contact with evil spirits during
        > the 3rd eye meditation. Will the evil spirits harm me and how to
        deal
        > with them.
        > In most of your meditating techniques featured, comment must not be
        > done during meditation, why is it so and what will happen if one
        > really makes comments.
        > Thank you.
        > S.H.

        Dear SH:

        That was a very real fear in me also for many years, that I would be
        possessed if I turned loose and submitted to the meditation.

        For me it turned out that when I said to myself that I was willing to
        die to know what it is like to submit, that the fear was overcome.

        This told me it was really a fear of death I was recoiling from, and
        that the demon fear was covering my fear of death.

        Commenting during meditation is very similar to just "knowing".
        Knowing is acceptable. I hope someone will correct me if I am wrong
        about this.

        Love
        Bobby G.
      • satkartar7
        ... I agree with you Bobby, there is a death-jump like feeling before leaving the mind behind..a struggle In Shabd Yoga Meditation they give a mantra for
        Message 3 of 19 , Apr 30, 2003
        • 0 Attachment
          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
          > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
          > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
          > > Dear sir,
          > > How should we react if we come into contact with evil spirits during
          > > the 3rd eye meditation. Will the evil spirits harm me and how to
          > deal
          > > with them.
          > > In most of your meditating techniques featured, comment must not be
          > > done during meditation, why is it so and what will happen if one
          > > really makes comments.
          > > Thank you.
          > > S.H.
          >
          > Dear SH:
          >
          > That was a very real fear in me also for many years, that I would be
          > possessed if I turned loose and submitted to the meditation.
          >
          > For me it turned out that when I said to myself that I was willing to
          > die to know what it is like to submit, that the fear was overcome.
          >
          > This told me it was really a fear of death I was recoiling from, and
          > that the demon fear was covering my fear of death.
          >
          > Commenting during meditation is very similar to just "knowing".
          > Knowing is acceptable. I hope someone will correct me if I am wrong
          > about this.
          >
          > Love
          > Bobby G.


          I agree with you Bobby, there is
          a death-jump like feeling before
          leaving the mind behind..a struggle

          In Shabd Yoga Meditation they give a
          mantra for warding off the negative

          Karta
        • Jason Fishman
          I wouldn t mind hearing ho weither of you know that it s bad? In what way does one notice the manifistation of bad or good during any practice, especially one
          Message 4 of 19 , Apr 30, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            I wouldn't mind hearing ho weither of you know that
            it's bad? In what way does one notice the
            manifistation of bad or good during any practice,
            especially one that is about the understanding neither
            state?

            Peace and Love

            --- satkartar7 <mi_nok@...> wrote:
            > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
            > "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
            > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
            > medit8ionsociety
            > > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
            > > > Dear sir,
            > > > How should we react if we come into contact with
            > evil spirits during
            > > > the 3rd eye meditation. Will the evil spirits
            > harm me and how to
            > > deal
            > > > with them.
            > > > In most of your meditating techniques featured,
            > comment must not be
            > > > done during meditation, why is it so and what
            > will happen if one
            > > > really makes comments.
            > > > Thank you.
            > > > S.H.
            > >
            > > Dear SH:
            > >
            > > That was a very real fear in me also for many
            > years, that I would be
            > > possessed if I turned loose and submitted to the
            > meditation.
            > >
            > > For me it turned out that when I said to myself
            > that I was willing to
            > > die to know what it is like to submit, that the
            > fear was overcome.
            > >
            > > This told me it was really a fear of death I was
            > recoiling from, and
            > > that the demon fear was covering my fear of death.
            > >
            > > Commenting during meditation is very similar to
            > just "knowing".
            > > Knowing is acceptable. I hope someone will
            > correct me if I am wrong
            > > about this.
            > >
            > > Love
            > > Bobby G.
            >
            >
            > I agree with you Bobby, there is
            > a death-jump like feeling before
            > leaving the mind behind..a struggle
            >
            > In Shabd Yoga Meditation they give a
            > mantra for warding off the negative
            >
            > Karta
            >
            >


            __________________________________
            Do you Yahoo!?
            The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
            http://search.yahoo.com
          • texasbg2000
            ... Good point Jason. I will let Karta answer from her perspective. for myself when I meditated I got to a place that seemed deep. It seemed like if I went
            Message 5 of 19 , Apr 30, 2003
            • 0 Attachment
              --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Jason Fishman
              <munkiman4u@y...> wrote:
              > I wouldn't mind hearing ho weither of you know that
              > it's bad? In what way does one notice the
              > manifistation of bad or good during any practice,
              > especially one that is about the understanding neither
              > state?
              >
              > Peace and Love

              Good point Jason. I will let Karta answer from her perspective.

              for myself when I meditated I got to a place that seemed deep.
              It seemed like if I went any further I would lose control. I told
              myself i was willing to die but I had to know if I had wasted my time
              and had never really been willing to face my fears. I practiced a
              small affirmation that when the time came I would not back off
              again. So I was graced with Samadhi.

              The fears were of the unknown. Like a child that does not know
              monsters of the supernatural kind do not exist because they have not
              lived enough to know, I had to learn to be brave. It seems silly now
              but the fear was like a wisp of smoke and I have not seen it since.

              The question of negative or positive has to answered in context to an
              event and not as one of the rules in an objective universe that we
              must somehow find. In that sense, thoughts during meditation are bad.

              Love
              Bobby G.

              >
              > --- satkartar7 <mi_nok@y...> wrote:
              > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
              > > "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
              > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
              > > medit8ionsociety
              > > > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
              > > > > Dear sir,
              > > > > How should we react if we come into contact with
              > > evil spirits during
              > > > > the 3rd eye meditation. Will the evil spirits
              > > harm me and how to
              > > > deal
              > > > > with them.
              > > > > In most of your meditating techniques featured,
              > > comment must not be
              > > > > done during meditation, why is it so and what
              > > will happen if one
              > > > > really makes comments.
              > > > > Thank you.
              > > > > S.H.
              > > >
              > > > Dear SH:
              > > >
              > > > That was a very real fear in me also for many
              > > years, that I would be
              > > > possessed if I turned loose and submitted to the
              > > meditation.
              > > >
              > > > For me it turned out that when I said to myself
              > > that I was willing to
              > > > die to know what it is like to submit, that the
              > > fear was overcome.
              > > >
              > > > This told me it was really a fear of death I was
              > > recoiling from, and
              > > > that the demon fear was covering my fear of death.
              > > >
              > > > Commenting during meditation is very similar to
              > > just "knowing".
              > > > Knowing is acceptable. I hope someone will
              > > correct me if I am wrong
              > > > about this.
              > > >
              > > > Love
              > > > Bobby G.
              > >
              > >
              > > I agree with you Bobby, there is
              > > a death-jump like feeling before
              > > leaving the mind behind..a struggle
              > >
              > > In Shabd Yoga Meditation they give a
              > > mantra for warding off the negative
              > >
              > > Karta
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              > __________________________________
              > Do you Yahoo!?
              > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
              > http://search.yahoo.com
            • Jason Fishman
              ... Jason: Yes depth, the shallow end of what we would all care to experience. Moving, powerful & overwhelming. As to say this is heaven or hell, either being
              Message 6 of 19 , Apr 30, 2003
              • 0 Attachment
                --- texasbg2000 <Bigbobgraham@...> wrote:
                > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                > Jason Fishman
                > <munkiman4u@y...> wrote:
                > > I wouldn't mind hearing ho weither of you know
                > that
                > > it's bad? In what way does one notice the
                > > manifistation of bad or good during any practice,
                > > especially one that is about the understanding
                > neither
                > > state?
                > >
                > > Peace and Love
                >
                > Good point Jason. I will let Karta answer from her
                > perspective.
                >
                > for myself when I meditated I got to a place that
                > seemed deep.

                Jason: Yes depth, the shallow end of what we would all
                care to experience. Moving, powerful & overwhelming.
                As to say this is heaven or hell, either being deep
                states of good or badness.

                > It seemed like if I went any further I would lose
                > control. I told
                > myself i was willing to die but I had to know if I
                > had wasted my time
                > and had never really been willing to face my fears.

                Jason: yes I understand this practice. On what one
                would call a control issue, wouldn't someone with a
                serious intent to kill, holding a gun to anothers head
                be quite the same practice? Would you say there is a
                better sense of control when one does this on their
                own?

                > I practiced a
                > small affirmation that when the time came I would
                > not back off
                > again. So I was graced with Samadhi.

                Jason: hmm, ponderous.

                > The fears were of the unknown. Like a child that
                > does not know
                > monsters of the supernatural kind do not exist
                > because they have not
                > lived enough to know, I had to learn to be brave.
                > It seems silly now
                > but the fear was like a wisp of smoke and I have not
                > seen it since.
                >
                > The question of negative or positive has to answered
                > in context to an
                > event and not as one of the rules in an objective
                > universe that we
                > must somehow find. In that sense, thoughts during
                > meditation are bad.

                Jason: I see, some thoughts outloud we share, thank
                you! Fear of the unknown, the demon of all goodness
                perhaps?

                > Love
                > Bobby G.

                Peace and Love

                __________________________________
                Do you Yahoo!?
                The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
                http://search.yahoo.com
              • texasbg2000
                ... No, not my meaning. With deep meditation at least in my case, thoughts slow and very few ideas are presented. The recurring one was will I be posessed,
                Message 7 of 19 , Apr 30, 2003
                • 0 Attachment
                  --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Jason Fishman
                  <munkiman4u@y...> wrote:

                  > > > I wouldn't mind hearing how either of you know
                  > > that
                  > > > it's bad? In what way does one notice the
                  > > > manifistation of bad or good during any practice,
                  > > > especially one that is about the understanding
                  > > neither
                  > > > state?
                  > > >
                  > > > Peace and Love
                  > >
                  > > Good point Jason. I will let Karta answer from her
                  > > perspective.
                  > >
                  > > for myself when I meditated I got to a place that
                  > > seemed deep.
                  >
                  > Jason: Yes depth, the shallow end of what we would all
                  > care to experience. Moving, powerful & overwhelming.
                  > As to say this is heaven or hell, either being deep
                  > states of good or badness.

                  No, not my meaning. With deep meditation at least in my case,
                  thoughts slow and very few ideas are presented. The recurring one
                  was will I be posessed, i.e., is the idea of meditation a misleading
                  conspiracy to get people to submit to a loss of control of themselves.

                  I found that idea to be wrong but only after I was 'at the end of my
                  rope'.

                  >
                  > > It seemed like if I went any further I would lose
                  > > control. I told
                  > > myself i was willing to die but I had to know if I
                  > > had wasted my time
                  > > and had never really been willing to face my fears.
                  >
                  > Jason: yes I understand this practice. On what one
                  > would call a control issue, wouldn't someone with a
                  > serious intent to kill, holding a gun to anothers head
                  > be quite the same practice? Would you say there is a
                  > better sense of control when one does this on their
                  > own?

                  could you go into this a little more? I dont understand your meaning.
                  I actually sat down and waited to die.

                  >
                  > > I practiced a
                  > > small affirmation that when the time came I would
                  > > not back off
                  > > again. So I was graced with Samadhi.
                  >
                  > Jason: hmm, ponderous.

                  I have done this a lot, get prepared for thoughts that I expect to
                  return. You seem critical? Could you explain please?

                  >
                  > > The fears were of the unknown. Like a child that
                  > > does not know
                  > > monsters of the supernatural kind do not exist
                  > > because they have not
                  > > lived enough to know, I had to learn to be brave.
                  > > It seems silly now
                  > > but the fear was like a wisp of smoke and I have not
                  > > seen it since.
                  > >
                  > > The question of negative or positive has to answered
                  > > in context to an
                  > > event and not as one of the rules in an objective
                  > > universe that we
                  > > must somehow find. In that sense, thoughts during
                  > > meditation are bad.
                  >
                  > Jason: I see, some thoughts outloud we share, thank
                  > you! Fear of the unknown, the demon of all goodness
                  > perhaps?

                  I don't see goodness as an entity and as I explained I gave up the
                  possibility of the demon.

                  > Peace and Love
                  >
                  Love
                  Bobby G.
                • Jason Fishman
                  ... Jason: OK, I see the conspiracy side of thought as though to say something is being done to you. i.e. another putting the thought in your head that
                  Message 8 of 19 , Apr 30, 2003
                  • 0 Attachment
                    > > Jason: Yes depth, the shallow end of what we would
                    > all
                    > > care to experience. Moving, powerful &
                    > overwhelming.
                    > > As to say this is heaven or hell, either being
                    > deep
                    > > states of good or badness.
                    >
                    > No, not my meaning. With deep meditation at least
                    > in my case,
                    > thoughts slow and very few ideas are presented. The
                    > recurring one
                    > was will I be posessed, i.e., is the idea of
                    > meditation a misleading
                    > conspiracy to get people to submit to a loss of
                    > control of themselves.
                    >
                    > I found that idea to be wrong but only after I was
                    > 'at the end of my
                    > rope'.

                    Jason: OK, I see the conspiracy side of thought as
                    though to say something is being done to you. i.e.
                    another putting the thought in your head that
                    meditation is lovely, only to find out that it's a way
                    for another to control you (a demon, let's say).
                    Although, I do still question the control side, as to
                    say you are doing something to yourself or for
                    yourself. In the case of meditation, is the act of
                    meditation giving you something (either positive or
                    negative)? As to say does the peace you feel during
                    deep meditation give rise to a good feeling (not
                    thoughts in words, just feeling) Let's not address the
                    in between thought for now, as to say neti, neti.

                    > >
                    > > > It seemed like if I went any further I would
                    > lose
                    > > > control. I told
                    > > > myself i was willing to die but I had to know if
                    > I
                    > > > had wasted my time
                    > > > and had never really been willing to face my
                    > fears.
                    > >
                    > > Jason: yes I understand this practice. On what one
                    > > would call a control issue, wouldn't someone with
                    > a
                    > > serious intent to kill, holding a gun to anothers
                    > head
                    > > be quite the same practice? Would you say there is
                    > a
                    > > better sense of control when one does this on
                    > their
                    > > own?
                    >
                    > could you go into this a little more? I dont
                    > understand your meaning.
                    > I actually sat down and waited to die.

                    Jason: What is ment here is, is sitting and waiting to
                    die something other then have someone force your
                    eminent death apon you. Does this waiting to die seem
                    to give you the control as opposed to another taking
                    your life? If, so... Does this thought that you
                    control the outcome give you benift?

                    I have succumb to my own death in both situations, so
                    for me neither feel different, nor does there seem to
                    be a benifit or non-benifit to this illusion of an
                    end.

                    > >
                    > > > I practiced a
                    > > > small affirmation that when the time came I
                    > would
                    > > > not back off
                    > > > again. So I was graced with Samadhi.
                    > >
                    > > Jason: hmm, ponderous.
                    >
                    > I have done this a lot, get prepared for thoughts
                    > that I expect to
                    > return. You seem critical? Could you explain
                    > please?

                    Jason: The affirmation, that one will not back-off
                    next time. I was thinking about this backing off, this
                    letting go and again it seems to me a non-choice, nor
                    does it provide a benifit to partake in such a
                    practice.

                    Such to say that you can do everything imaginable to
                    remove the fear that you don't know whats around the
                    corner. There still remains enough suprises around the
                    corner to keep taht fear in check.

                    Much like going around the block to meet your
                    neighbors, you never know if you will be welcomed or
                    not. So there is a sense that you may not be, even if
                    you've been around the block a million times. There is
                    still enough unwelcoming to keep it interesting.


                    > >
                    > > > The fears were of the unknown. Like a child
                    > that
                    > > > does not know
                    > > > monsters of the supernatural kind do not exist
                    > > > because they have not
                    > > > lived enough to know, I had to learn to be
                    > brave.
                    > > > It seems silly now
                    > > > but the fear was like a wisp of smoke and I have
                    > not
                    > > > seen it since.
                    > > >
                    > > > The question of negative or positive has to
                    > answered
                    > > > in context to an
                    > > > event and not as one of the rules in an
                    > objective
                    > > > universe that we
                    > > > must somehow find. In that sense, thoughts
                    > during
                    > > > meditation are bad.
                    > >
                    > > Jason: I see, some thoughts outloud we share,
                    > thank
                    > > you! Fear of the unknown, the demon of all
                    > goodness
                    > > perhaps?
                    >
                    > I don't see goodness as an entity and as I explained
                    > I gave up the
                    > possibility of the demon.

                    Jason: I understand. Although it is most certain to me
                    that people don't care for each other (or for things),
                    not in the least, until a moment arises when the other
                    can do something to benifit them, then they care
                    deeply. What really could be exposed is this knowing
                    of oneself and of others, this may aid in the fight
                    against the demons of understanding motivations and
                    interplay in any relational experience. Even though
                    people walk around saying things like "she/he loves me
                    for me" or "he/she doesn't care", the bottom line is
                    that they don't care until they do. Who am I? A
                    selfish person, until those that benifit me are
                    clearly understood, regardless of any past or future
                    interplay. Death seems beyond a sense of self and is
                    also prior to any senses. Nothing begins nor does it
                    end, so I guess this is the end of another begining:)

                    > > Peace and Love
                    > >
                    > Love
                    > Bobby G.
                    >
                    >


                    __________________________________
                    Do you Yahoo!?
                    The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
                    http://search.yahoo.com
                  • texasbg2000
                    ... Isn t this a different topic. That of is meditation helpful? I believe meditating makes you better at meditation. ... The idea of control is slippery.
                    Message 9 of 19 , Apr 30, 2003
                    • 0 Attachment
                      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Jason Fishman
                      <munkiman4u@y...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > > Jason: Yes depth, the shallow end of what we would
                      > > all
                      > > > care to experience. Moving, powerful &
                      > > overwhelming.
                      > > > As to say this is heaven or hell, either being
                      > > deep
                      > > > states of good or badness.
                      > >
                      > > No, not my meaning. With deep meditation at least
                      > > in my case,
                      > > thoughts slow and very few ideas are presented. The
                      > > recurring one
                      > > was will I be posessed, i.e., is the idea of
                      > > meditation a misleading
                      > > conspiracy to get people to submit to a loss of
                      > > control of themselves.
                      > >
                      > > I found that idea to be wrong but only after I was
                      > > 'at the end of my
                      > > rope'.
                      >
                      > Jason: OK, I see the conspiracy side of thought as
                      > though to say something is being done to you. i.e.
                      > another putting the thought in your head that
                      > meditation is lovely, only to find out that it's a way
                      > for another to control you (a demon, let's say).
                      > Although, I do still question the control side, as to
                      > say you are doing something to yourself or for
                      > yourself. In the case of meditation, is the act of
                      > meditation giving you something (either positive or
                      > negative)? As to say does the peace you feel during
                      > deep meditation give rise to a good feeling (not
                      > thoughts in words, just feeling) Let's not address the
                      > in between thought for now, as to say neti, neti.
                      >

                      Isn't this a different topic. That of 'is meditation helpful?' I
                      believe meditating makes you better at meditation.

                      > > >
                      > > > > It seemed like if I went any further I would
                      > > lose
                      > > > > control. I told
                      > > > > myself i was willing to die but I had to know if
                      > > I
                      > > > > had wasted my time
                      > > > > and had never really been willing to face my
                      > > fears.
                      > > >
                      > > > Jason: yes I understand this practice. On what one
                      > > > would call a control issue, wouldn't someone with
                      > > a
                      > > > serious intent to kill, holding a gun to anothers
                      > > head
                      > > > be quite the same practice? Would you say there is
                      > > a
                      > > > better sense of control when one does this on
                      > > their
                      > > > own?
                      > >
                      > > could you go into this a little more? I dont
                      > > understand your meaning.
                      > > I actually sat down and waited to die.
                      >
                      > Jason: What is ment here is, is sitting and waiting to
                      > die something other then have someone force your
                      > eminent death apon you. Does this waiting to die seem
                      > to give you the control as opposed to another taking
                      > your life? If, so... Does this thought that you
                      > control the outcome give you benift?

                      The idea of control is slippery. "Controlling the senses" sounds
                      like an act of doing something but in fact is the act of not doing
                      anything: not being influenced in any way enough to let the senses
                      take focus from meditation.

                      Submitting to fear is different in type than submitting to a loss of
                      control, which is in effect, control of the senses.

                      Eminent death is different. It is said that even the sages quake
                      when death is near.

                      >
                      > I have succumb to my own death in both situations, so
                      > for me neither feel different, nor does there seem to
                      > be a benifit or non-benifit to this illusion of an
                      > end.
                      >
                      > > >
                      > > > > I practiced a
                      > > > > small affirmation that when the time came I
                      > > would
                      > > > > not back off
                      > > > > again. So I was graced with Samadhi.
                      > > >
                      > > > Jason: hmm, ponderous.
                      > >
                      > > I have done this a lot, get prepared for thoughts
                      > > that I expect to
                      > > return. You seem critical? Could you explain
                      > > please?
                      >
                      > Jason: The affirmation, that one will not back-off
                      > next time. I was thinking about this backing off, this
                      > letting go and again it seems to me a non-choice, nor
                      > does it provide a benifit to partake in such a
                      > practice.
                      >
                      > Such to say that you can do everything imaginable to
                      > remove the fear that you don't know whats around the
                      > corner. There still remains enough suprises around the
                      > corner to keep taht fear in check.
                      >
                      > Much like going around the block to meet your
                      > neighbors, you never know if you will be welcomed or
                      > not. So there is a sense that you may not be, even if
                      > you've been around the block a million times. There is
                      > still enough unwelcoming to keep it interesting.

                      I believed in the love and wisdom I read and experienced and I saw
                      too much system leading forward and this helped me lose fear.

                      The fear dwindled I think because it was not about a real thing and
                      reality had grown more present in my life. Of course fear of the
                      unknown disappears entirely when it is seen to be unfounded.

                      The main point is that fear of being possessed was for me a diversion
                      from the real fear. The fear of death is a big one and too massive
                      to confront so I substituted something I could handle, the fear of
                      possession.

                      >
                      > > >
                      > > > > The fears were of the unknown. Like a child
                      > > that
                      > > > > does not know
                      > > > > monsters of the supernatural kind do not exist
                      > > > > because they have not
                      > > > > lived enough to know, I had to learn to be
                      > > brave.
                      > > > > It seems silly now
                      > > > > but the fear was like a wisp of smoke and I have
                      > > not
                      > > > > seen it since.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > The question of negative or positive has to
                      > > answered
                      > > > > in context to an
                      > > > > event and not as one of the rules in an
                      > > objective
                      > > > > universe that we
                      > > > > must somehow find. In that sense, thoughts
                      > > during
                      > > > > meditation are bad.
                      > > >
                      > > > Jason: I see, some thoughts outloud we share,
                      > > thank
                      > > > you! Fear of the unknown, the demon of all
                      > > goodness
                      > > > perhaps?
                      > >
                      > > I don't see goodness as an entity and as I explained
                      > > I gave up the
                      > > possibility of the demon.
                      >
                      > Jason: I understand. Although it is most certain to me
                      > that people don't care for each other (or for things),
                      > not in the least, until a moment arises when the other
                      > can do something to benifit them, then they care
                      > deeply. What really could be exposed is this knowing
                      > of oneself and of others, this may aid in the fight
                      > against the demons of understanding motivations and
                      > interplay in any relational experience. Even though
                      > people walk around saying things like "she/he loves me
                      > for me" or "he/she doesn't care", the bottom line is
                      > that they don't care until they do. Who am I? A
                      > selfish person, until those that benifit me are
                      > clearly understood, regardless of any past or future
                      > interplay. Death seems beyond a sense of self and is
                      > also prior to any senses. Nothing begins nor does it
                      > end, so I guess this is the end of another begining:)

                      I found that I love the truth. It is the simple act of knowing and
                      it is the greatest gift of all. I don't think it is important if
                      that is selfish or not.

                      I do things for selfish reasons sometimes but when I find myself
                      lying to myself to continue doing that thing then my tendency is to
                      stop the lie and give up the benefit. That that gives me a greater
                      benefit is beside the point.

                      Love
                      Bobby G.
                    • satkartar7
                      ... in this case Jason, it is just the same, since the moment of breaking meditation alreay happened: with the notice of negativity later, when out of
                      Message 10 of 19 , May 1 9:10 AM
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Jason Fishman <munkiman4u@y...> wrote:
                        > I wouldn't mind hearing ho weither of you know that
                        > it's bad? In what way does one notice the
                        > manifistation of bad or good during any practice,
                        > especially one that is about the understanding neither
                        > state?
                        >
                        > Peace and Love
                        >


                        in this case Jason, it is just the
                        same, since the moment of breaking meditation alreay happened: with
                        the notice of negativity

                        later, when "out" of meditation it is
                        a good thing to do vichara: "why did,
                        and why that type of negative entity
                        appear, and what does it mean"

                        it is usually one's supressed sub
                        conscious mind manifesting [a painful
                        uggly mirror, but must be done]

                        Karta



                        > --- satkartar7 <mi_nok@y...> wrote:
                        > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                        > > "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
                        > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                        > > medit8ionsociety
                        > > > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                        > > > > Dear sir,
                        > > > > How should we react if we come into contact with
                        > > evil spirits during
                        > > > > the 3rd eye meditation. Will the evil spirits
                        > > harm me and how to
                        > > > deal
                        > > > > with them.
                        > > > > In most of your meditating techniques featured,
                        > > comment must not be
                        > > > > done during meditation, why is it so and what
                        > > will happen if one
                        > > > > really makes comments.
                        > > > > Thank you.
                        > > > > S.H.
                        > > >
                        > > > Dear SH:
                        > > >
                        > > > That was a very real fear in me also for many
                        > > years, that I would be
                        > > > possessed if I turned loose and submitted to the
                        > > meditation.
                        > > >
                        > > > For me it turned out that when I said to myself
                        > > that I was willing to
                        > > > die to know what it is like to submit, that the
                        > > fear was overcome.
                        > > >
                        > > > This told me it was really a fear of death I was
                        > > recoiling from, and
                        > > > that the demon fear was covering my fear of death.
                        > > >
                        > > > Commenting during meditation is very similar to
                        > > just "knowing".
                        > > > Knowing is acceptable. I hope someone will
                        > > correct me if I am wrong
                        > > > about this.
                        > > >
                        > > > Love
                        > > > Bobby G.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > I agree with you Bobby, there is
                        > > a death-jump like feeling before
                        > > leaving the mind behind..a struggle
                        > >
                        > > In Shabd Yoga Meditation they give a
                        > > mantra for warding off the negative
                        > >
                        > > Karta
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        > __________________________________
                        > Do you Yahoo!?
                        > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
                        > http://search.yahoo.com
                      • satkartar7
                        ... yes, Bobby, the death-jump [leaving the mind behind for deeper cleaning ] in meditation is hard very hard and here lies the genius of the sound part of
                        Message 11 of 19 , May 1 9:18 AM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
                          > --- In Jason Fishman
                          > <munkiman4u@y...> wrote:
                          > > I wouldn't mind hearing ho weither of you know that
                          > > it's bad? In what way does one notice the
                          > > manifistation of bad or good during any practice,
                          > > especially one that is about the understanding neither
                          > > state?
                          > >
                          > > Peace and Love
                          >
                          > Good point Jason. I will let Karta answer from her perspective.
                          >
                          > for myself when I meditated I got to a place that seemed deep.
                          > It seemed like if I went any further I would lose control. I told
                          > myself i was willing to die but I had to know if I had wasted my time
                          > and had never really been willing to face my fears.


                          yes, Bobby, the "death-jump" [leaving
                          the "mind" behind for deeper"cleaning"]
                          in meditation is hard very hard and
                          here lies the genius of the sound
                          part of the Sabd Yoga meditation,
                          sinc it does mesmerize one: no place
                          for any cognition and before you
                          "notice" .. you are on the way

                          Love, Karta


                          > I practiced a
                          > small affirmation that when the time came I would not back off
                          > again. So I was graced with Samadhi.
                          >
                          > The fears were of the unknown. Like a child that does not know
                          > monsters of the supernatural kind do not exist because they have not
                          > lived enough to know, I had to learn to be brave. It seems silly now
                          > but the fear was like a wisp of smoke and I have not seen it since.
                          >
                          > The question of negative or positive has to answered in context to an
                          > event and not as one of the rules in an objective universe that we
                          > must somehow find. In that sense, thoughts during meditation are bad.
                          >
                          > Love
                          > Bobby G.
                          >
                          > >
                          > > --- satkartar7 <mi_nok@y...> wrote:
                          > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                          > > > "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
                          > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                          > > > medit8ionsociety
                          > > > > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                          > > > > > Dear sir,
                          > > > > > How should we react if we come into contact with
                          > > > evil spirits during
                          > > > > > the 3rd eye meditation. Will the evil spirits
                          > > > harm me and how to
                          > > > > deal
                          > > > > > with them.
                          > > > > > In most of your meditating techniques featured,
                          > > > comment must not be
                          > > > > > done during meditation, why is it so and what
                          > > > will happen if one
                          > > > > > really makes comments.
                          > > > > > Thank you.
                          > > > > > S.H.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Dear SH:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > That was a very real fear in me also for many
                          > > > years, that I would be
                          > > > > possessed if I turned loose and submitted to the
                          > > > meditation.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > For me it turned out that when I said to myself
                          > > > that I was willing to
                          > > > > die to know what it is like to submit, that the
                          > > > fear was overcome.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > This told me it was really a fear of death I was
                          > > > recoiling from, and
                          > > > > that the demon fear was covering my fear of death.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Commenting during meditation is very similar to
                          > > > just "knowing".
                          > > > > Knowing is acceptable. I hope someone will
                          > > > correct me if I am wrong
                          > > > > about this.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Love
                          > > > > Bobby G.
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > I agree with you Bobby, there is
                          > > > a death-jump like feeling before
                          > > > leaving the mind behind..a struggle
                          > > >
                          > > > In Shabd Yoga Meditation they give a
                          > > > mantra for warding off the negative
                          > > >
                          > > > Karta
                        • texasbg2000
                          ... time ... hi Karta: Could you post that Sabd Yoga meditation? I have a sound meditation where the sound is always present and I can hear it even when
                          Message 12 of 19 , May 1 10:15 AM
                          • 0 Attachment
                            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "satkartar7"
                            <mi_nok@y...> wrote:
                            > "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
                            > > --- In Jason Fishman
                            > > <munkiman4u@y...> wrote:
                            > > > I wouldn't mind hearing ho weither of you know that
                            > > > it's bad? In what way does one notice the
                            > > > manifistation of bad or good during any practice,
                            > > > especially one that is about the understanding neither
                            > > > state?
                            > > >
                            > > > Peace and Love
                            > >
                            > > Good point Jason. I will let Karta answer from her perspective.
                            > >
                            > > for myself when I meditated I got to a place that seemed deep.
                            > > It seemed like if I went any further I would lose control. I told
                            > > myself i was willing to die but I had to know if I had wasted my
                            time
                            > > and had never really been willing to face my fears.
                            >
                            >
                            > yes, Bobby, the "death-jump" [leaving
                            > the "mind" behind for deeper"cleaning"]
                            > in meditation is hard very hard and
                            > here lies the genius of the sound
                            > part of the Sabd Yoga meditation,
                            > sinc it does mesmerize one: no place
                            > for any cognition and before you
                            > "notice" .. you are on the way
                            >
                            > Love, Karta

                            hi Karta:

                            Could you post that Sabd Yoga meditation? I have a sound meditation
                            where the sound is always present and I can hear it even when talking
                            or listening. Is it similar to that? Even with it the fear of
                            possession bumped me many times.

                            Bobby G.

                            >
                            >
                            > > I practiced a
                            > > small affirmation that when the time came I would not back off
                            > > again. So I was graced with Samadhi.
                            > >
                            > > The fears were of the unknown. Like a child that does not know
                            > > monsters of the supernatural kind do not exist because they have
                            not
                            > > lived enough to know, I had to learn to be brave. It seems silly
                            now
                            > > but the fear was like a wisp of smoke and I have not seen it
                            since.
                            > >
                            > > The question of negative or positive has to answered in context
                            to an
                            > > event and not as one of the rules in an objective universe that
                            we
                            > > must somehow find. In that sense, thoughts during meditation are
                            bad.
                            > >
                            > > Love
                            > > Bobby G.
                            > >
                            > > >
                            > > > --- satkartar7 <mi_nok@y...> wrote:
                            > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                            > > > > "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
                            > > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                            > > > > medit8ionsociety
                            > > > > > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                            > > > > > > Dear sir,
                            > > > > > > How should we react if we come into contact with
                            > > > > evil spirits during
                            > > > > > > the 3rd eye meditation. Will the evil spirits
                            > > > > harm me and how to
                            > > > > > deal
                            > > > > > > with them.
                            > > > > > > In most of your meditating techniques featured,
                            > > > > comment must not be
                            > > > > > > done during meditation, why is it so and what
                            > > > > will happen if one
                            > > > > > > really makes comments.
                            > > > > > > Thank you.
                            > > > > > > S.H.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Dear SH:
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > That was a very real fear in me also for many
                            > > > > years, that I would be
                            > > > > > possessed if I turned loose and submitted to the
                            > > > > meditation.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > For me it turned out that when I said to myself
                            > > > > that I was willing to
                            > > > > > die to know what it is like to submit, that the
                            > > > > fear was overcome.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > This told me it was really a fear of death I was
                            > > > > recoiling from, and
                            > > > > > that the demon fear was covering my fear of death.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Commenting during meditation is very similar to
                            > > > > just "knowing".
                            > > > > > Knowing is acceptable. I hope someone will
                            > > > > correct me if I am wrong
                            > > > > > about this.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Love
                            > > > > > Bobby G.
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > I agree with you Bobby, there is
                            > > > > a death-jump like feeling before
                            > > > > leaving the mind behind..a struggle
                            > > > >
                            > > > > In Shabd Yoga Meditation they give a
                            > > > > mantra for warding off the negative
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Karta
                          • Jason Fishman
                            ... Jason: Why only in this case? Would you say that meditation is broken by negativity? ... Jason: I don t believe I suffer from this reflection you speak
                            Message 13 of 19 , May 1 4:46 PM
                            • 0 Attachment
                              --- satkartar7 <mi_nok@...> wrote:
                              > Jason Fishman <munkiman4u@y...> wrote:
                              > > I wouldn't mind hearing ho weither of you know
                              > that
                              > > it's bad? In what way does one notice the
                              > > manifistation of bad or good during any practice,
                              > > especially one that is about the understanding
                              > neither
                              > > state?
                              > >
                              > > Peace and Love
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              > in this case Jason, it is just the
                              > same, since the moment of breaking meditation
                              > alreay happened: with
                              > the notice of negativity

                              Jason: Why only in this case? Would you say that
                              meditation is broken by negativity?

                              > later, when "out" of meditation it is
                              > a good thing to do vichara: "why did,
                              > and why that type of negative entity
                              > appear, and what does it mean"

                              Jason: I don't believe I suffer from this reflection
                              you speak of.. This giving meaning to why something
                              occured. In relfection however, I once did this
                              extensively.

                              > it is usually one's supressed sub
                              > conscious mind manifesting [a painful
                              > uggly mirror, but must be done]

                              Jason: I actually enjoy the painful, ugly mirror. It
                              makes sense to me, since everyone outside is the ugly
                              reflection of my insides that I would love to
                              confront, yet I can't seem to find anywhere in my
                              world.

                              Thanks Karta

                              Peace and Love

                              > Karta


                              __________________________________
                              Do you Yahoo!?
                              The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
                              http://search.yahoo.com
                            • satkartar7
                              ... Hi Bobby here is the sound meditation page the second one by Kirpal if you click on onlinebooks than on Naam there is more to read about the sound and the
                              Message 14 of 19 , May 2 9:31 AM
                              • 0 Attachment
                                > hi Karta:
                                >
                                > Could you post that Sabd Yoga meditation? I have a sound meditation
                                > where the sound is always present and I can hear it even when talking
                                > or listening. Is it similar to that? Even with it the fear of
                                > possession bumped me many times.
                                >
                                > Bobby G.
                                >

                                Hi Bobby here is the sound meditation
                                page the second one by Kirpal if you
                                click on onlinebooks than on Naam
                                there is more to read about the sound
                                and the third you find Gurdijeff
                                movement diagram 'he taught a yoga-
                                dance' like magick diagramm of steps
                                and movements coordinated with emotions
                                .. I have to look it up: he was
                                initiated to and used the nadi-sound
                                of Aum also. So is Keith Richards, Erick
                                Clapton Shania Twain and many musicians
                                it is a great tool in meditation

                                <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/santmat/shabd-1.html>
                                <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/santmat/kirpal.html>
                                <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/2/sufiart.htm>

                                Posession by the Aum, no I don't
                                think so.

                                Love, Karta
                              • texasbg2000
                                ... meditation ... talking ... Thank you Karta, it is the same meditation I have been using. Probably the possession thing came out of my early Baptist
                                Message 15 of 19 , May 2 10:47 AM
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "satkartar7"
                                  <mi_nok@y...> wrote:
                                  > > hi Karta:
                                  > >
                                  > > Could you post that Sabd Yoga meditation? I have a sound
                                  meditation
                                  > > where the sound is always present and I can hear it even when
                                  talking
                                  > > or listening. Is it similar to that? Even with it the fear of
                                  > > possession bumped me many times.
                                  > >
                                  > > Bobby G.
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > Hi Bobby here is the sound meditation
                                  > page the second one by Kirpal if you
                                  > click on onlinebooks than on Naam
                                  > there is more to read about the sound
                                  > and the third you find Gurdijeff
                                  > movement diagram 'he taught a yoga-
                                  > dance' like magick diagramm of steps
                                  > and movements coordinated with emotions
                                  > .. I have to look it up: he was
                                  > initiated to and used the nadi-sound
                                  > of Aum also. So is Keith Richards, Erick
                                  > Clapton Shania Twain and many musicians
                                  > it is a great tool in meditation
                                  >
                                  > <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/santmat/shabd-1.html>
                                  > <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/santmat/kirpal.html>
                                  > <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/2/sufiart.htm>
                                  >
                                  > Posession by the Aum, no I don't
                                  > think so.
                                  >
                                  > Love, Karta

                                  Thank you Karta, it is the same meditation I have been using.

                                  Probably the possession thing came out of my early Baptist training
                                  and movies.
                                  Love
                                  Bobby G.
                                • medit8ionsociety
                                  texasbg2000 wrote: snip ... Hi, The fear of possession may have a much earlier origion than movies or Baptist stuff. As a matter of fact,
                                  Message 16 of 19 , May 2 3:16 PM
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
                                    snip
                                    Karta:
                                    > > Hi Bobby here is the sound meditation
                                    > > page the second one by Kirpal if you
                                    > > click on onlinebooks than on Naam
                                    > > there is more to read about the sound
                                    > > and the third you find Gurdijeff
                                    > > movement diagram 'he taught a yoga-
                                    > > dance' like magick diagramm of steps
                                    > > and movements coordinated with emotions
                                    > > .. I have to look it up: he was
                                    > > initiated to and used the nadi-sound
                                    > > of Aum also. So is Keith Richards, Erick
                                    > > Clapton Shania Twain and many musicians
                                    > > it is a great tool in meditation
                                    > >
                                    > > <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/santmat/shabd-1.html>
                                    > > <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/santmat/kirpal.html>
                                    > > <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/2/sufiart.htm>
                                    > >
                                    > > Posession by the Aum, no I don't
                                    > > think so.
                                    > >
                                    > > Love, Karta

                                    Bobby G:
                                    > Thank you Karta, it is the same meditation I have been using.
                                    >
                                    > Probably the possession thing came out of my early Baptist training
                                    > and movies.
                                    > Love
                                    > Bobby G.

                                    Hi,
                                    The fear of possession may have a much earlier origion than movies or
                                    Baptist stuff. As a matter of fact, in may be in our very oldest and
                                    deepest genetic memories. In the days before fire, a caveman probably
                                    sat in the dark shaking with fear of the roars and growls of the
                                    predators roaming around outside. He very likely stuck his fingers in
                                    his ears, or plugged them up with dirt or whatever was handy, to shut
                                    out the terrifying sounds. This was the start of man looking within,
                                    and finding and listening to the inner "divine harmonies", "celestial
                                    choirs", and so on, that every religion and "way" has reported from
                                    that time on. Similarly, he would have likely become much more aware
                                    of his breath, and it is probable that this would have also been the
                                    start of the Soham meditation, and other pranayama techniques. And he
                                    also probably had his eyes shut tightly at different times and would
                                    have likely eventually focused on the 3rd eye area, and the inner
                                    door to cosmic vision would have opened. All of this would have led
                                    his newly evolved frontal lobe activity to start the enquiry
                                    into "Who am I?", What is this life about", and so on. And thus
                                    meditation began and continues until this very moment. So, how come
                                    they call it "New Age"?:-)
                                    Peace and blessings,
                                    Bob
                                  • texasbg2000
                                    ... training ... or ... and ... probably ... in ... shut ... within, ... harmonies , celestial ... aware ... the ... he ... would ... LOL. Yeah. At some
                                    Message 17 of 19 , May 2 5:33 PM
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
                                      <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                                      > "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
                                      > snip
                                      > Karta:
                                      > > > Hi Bobby here is the sound meditation
                                      > > > page the second one by Kirpal if you
                                      > > > click on onlinebooks than on Naam
                                      > > > there is more to read about the sound
                                      > > > and the third you find Gurdijeff
                                      > > > movement diagram 'he taught a yoga-
                                      > > > dance' like magick diagramm of steps
                                      > > > and movements coordinated with emotions
                                      > > > .. I have to look it up: he was
                                      > > > initiated to and used the nadi-sound
                                      > > > of Aum also. So is Keith Richards, Erick
                                      > > > Clapton Shania Twain and many musicians
                                      > > > it is a great tool in meditation
                                      > > >
                                      > > > <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/santmat/shabd-1.html>
                                      > > > <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/santmat/kirpal.html>
                                      > > > <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/2/sufiart.htm>
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Posession by the Aum, no I don't
                                      > > > think so.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Love, Karta
                                      >
                                      > Bobby G:
                                      > > Thank you Karta, it is the same meditation I have been using.
                                      > >
                                      > > Probably the possession thing came out of my early Baptist
                                      training
                                      > > and movies.
                                      > > Love
                                      > > Bobby G.
                                      >
                                      > Hi,
                                      > The fear of possession may have a much earlier origion than movies
                                      or
                                      > Baptist stuff. As a matter of fact, in may be in our very oldest
                                      and
                                      > deepest genetic memories. In the days before fire, a caveman
                                      probably
                                      > sat in the dark shaking with fear of the roars and growls of the
                                      > predators roaming around outside. He very likely stuck his fingers
                                      in
                                      > his ears, or plugged them up with dirt or whatever was handy, to
                                      shut
                                      > out the terrifying sounds. This was the start of man looking
                                      within,
                                      > and finding and listening to the inner "divine
                                      harmonies", "celestial
                                      > choirs", and so on, that every religion and "way" has reported from
                                      > that time on. Similarly, he would have likely become much more
                                      aware
                                      > of his breath, and it is probable that this would have also been
                                      the
                                      > start of the Soham meditation, and other pranayama techniques. And
                                      he
                                      > also probably had his eyes shut tightly at different times and
                                      would
                                      > have likely eventually focused on the 3rd eye area, and the inner
                                      > door to cosmic vision would have opened. All of this would have led
                                      > his newly evolved frontal lobe activity to start the enquiry
                                      > into "Who am I?", What is this life about", and so on. And thus
                                      > meditation began and continues until this very moment. So, how come
                                      > they call it "New Age"?:-)
                                      > Peace and blessings,
                                      > Bob

                                      LOL. Yeah.

                                      At some point someone had to say "Egad, eureka! This is awesome!" I
                                      know I did. It was in Cincinatti.

                                      Bobby G.
                                    • satkartar7
                                      ... ly@y... wrote: texasbg2000 wrote: snip Karta: Hi Bobby here is the sound meditation page the second one by Kirpal
                                      Message 18 of 19 , May 3 10:54 AM
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety <no_rep=
                                        ly@y...> wrote:
                                        > "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
                                        > snip
                                        > Karta:
                                        > > > Hi Bobby here is the sound meditation
                                        > > > page the second one by Kirpal if you
                                        > > > click on onlinebooks than on Naam
                                        > > > there is more to read about the sound
                                        > > > and the third you find Gurdijeff
                                        > > > movement diagram 'he taught a yoga-
                                        > > > dance' like magick diagramm of steps
                                        > > > and movements coordinated with emotions
                                        > > > .. I have to look it up: he was
                                        > > > initiated to and used the nadi-sound
                                        > > > of Aum also. So is Keith Richards, Erick
                                        > > > Clapton Shania Twain and many musicians
                                        > > > it is a great tool in meditation
                                        > > >
                                        > > > <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/santmat/shabd-1.html>
                                        > > > <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/santmat/kirpal.html>
                                        > > > <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/2/sufiart.htm>
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Posession by the Aum, no I don't
                                        > > > think so.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Love, Karta
                                        >
                                        > Bobby G:
                                        > > Thank you Karta, it is the same meditation I have been using.
                                        > >
                                        > > Probably the possession thing came out of my early Baptist training
                                        > > and movies.
                                        > > Love
                                        > > Bobby G.
                                        >
                                        > Hi,
                                        > The fear of possession may have a much earlier origion than movies or
                                        > Baptist stuff. As a matter of fact, in may be in our very oldest and
                                        > deepest genetic memories. In the days before fire, a caveman probably
                                        > sat in the dark shaking with fear of the roars and growls of the
                                        > predators roaming around outside. He very likely stuck his fingers in
                                        > his ears, or plugged them up with dirt or whatever was handy, to shut
                                        > out the terrifying sounds. This was the start of man looking within,
                                        > and finding and listening to the inner "divine harmonies", "celestial
                                        > choirs", and so on, that every religion and "way" has reported from
                                        > that time on. Similarly, he would have likely become much more aware
                                        > of his breath, and it is probable that this would have also been the
                                        > start of the Soham meditation, and other pranayama techniques. And he
                                        > also probably had his eyes shut tightly at different times and would
                                        > have likely eventually focused on the 3rd eye area, and the inner
                                        > door to cosmic vision would have opened. All of this would have led
                                        > his newly evolved frontal lobe activity to start the enquiry
                                        > into "Who am I?", What is this life about", and so on. And thus
                                        > meditation began and continues until this very moment. So, how come
                                        > they call it "New Age"?:-)
                                        > Peace and blessings,
                                        > Bob


                                        yes, fear is deep seated, Dam must
                                        know a lot about this.

                                        The just hatched from the eggs chiks
                                        have a memory already of the fear of
                                        a big-bird or eagle flying above them Experiment sowed that if the shadow o=
                                        f
                                        a paper kyte is above them they run
                                        wild for cover chirping loudly


                                        Love, Karta
                                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.