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Email questions about 3rd Eye and comments during meditation

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  • medit8ionsociety
    Dear sir, How should we react if we come into contact with evil spirits during the 3rd eye meditation. Will the evil spirits harm me and how to deal with them.
    Message 1 of 19 , Apr 29, 2003
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      Dear sir,
      How should we react if we come into contact with evil spirits during
      the 3rd eye meditation. Will the evil spirits harm me and how to deal
      with them.
      In most of your meditating techniques featured, comment must not be
      done during meditation, why is it so and what will happen if one
      really makes comments.
      Thank you.
      S.H.
    • jodyrrr
      ... Evil spirits have no power *whatsoever* over you. *NONE* You are the Self, the ground of all being. How can a mere wisp of the astral affect that? It is
      Message 2 of 19 , Apr 29, 2003
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        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
        <no_reply@y...> wrote:
        > Dear sir,
        > How should we react if we come into contact with evil spirits during
        > the 3rd eye meditation. Will the evil spirits harm me and how to deal
        > with them.

        Evil spirits have no power *whatsoever* over you. *NONE*
        You are the Self, the ground of all being. How can a mere
        wisp of the astral affect that?

        It is only through a fear of spirits that some problems may
        arise. If you clear yourself of fear by trusting in complete
        surrender to your personal higher power, you'll have nothing
        to worry about.

        > In most of your meditating techniques featured, comment must not be
        > done during meditation, why is it so and what will happen if one
        > really makes comments.

        Thinking during meditation is thinking, not meditation. Meditation
        is usually about seeing thinking for what it is, the container of a
        person's idea of who they are. Meditation seeks to clear the mind
        of this very idea, which is based in a constellation of self-regarding
        thinking.

        Commenting during one's meditation can reinforce this self-regard,
        thus diluting any beneficial effects one may otherwise gain from the
        practice.

        > Thank you.
        > S.H.

        Good luck S.H.

        --jody.
      • texasbg2000
        ... deal ... Dear SH: That was a very real fear in me also for many years, that I would be possessed if I turned loose and submitted to the meditation. For me
        Message 3 of 19 , Apr 30, 2003
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          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
          <no_reply@y...> wrote:
          > Dear sir,
          > How should we react if we come into contact with evil spirits during
          > the 3rd eye meditation. Will the evil spirits harm me and how to
          deal
          > with them.
          > In most of your meditating techniques featured, comment must not be
          > done during meditation, why is it so and what will happen if one
          > really makes comments.
          > Thank you.
          > S.H.

          Dear SH:

          That was a very real fear in me also for many years, that I would be
          possessed if I turned loose and submitted to the meditation.

          For me it turned out that when I said to myself that I was willing to
          die to know what it is like to submit, that the fear was overcome.

          This told me it was really a fear of death I was recoiling from, and
          that the demon fear was covering my fear of death.

          Commenting during meditation is very similar to just "knowing".
          Knowing is acceptable. I hope someone will correct me if I am wrong
          about this.

          Love
          Bobby G.
        • satkartar7
          ... I agree with you Bobby, there is a death-jump like feeling before leaving the mind behind..a struggle In Shabd Yoga Meditation they give a mantra for
          Message 4 of 19 , Apr 30, 2003
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            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
            > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
            > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
            > > Dear sir,
            > > How should we react if we come into contact with evil spirits during
            > > the 3rd eye meditation. Will the evil spirits harm me and how to
            > deal
            > > with them.
            > > In most of your meditating techniques featured, comment must not be
            > > done during meditation, why is it so and what will happen if one
            > > really makes comments.
            > > Thank you.
            > > S.H.
            >
            > Dear SH:
            >
            > That was a very real fear in me also for many years, that I would be
            > possessed if I turned loose and submitted to the meditation.
            >
            > For me it turned out that when I said to myself that I was willing to
            > die to know what it is like to submit, that the fear was overcome.
            >
            > This told me it was really a fear of death I was recoiling from, and
            > that the demon fear was covering my fear of death.
            >
            > Commenting during meditation is very similar to just "knowing".
            > Knowing is acceptable. I hope someone will correct me if I am wrong
            > about this.
            >
            > Love
            > Bobby G.


            I agree with you Bobby, there is
            a death-jump like feeling before
            leaving the mind behind..a struggle

            In Shabd Yoga Meditation they give a
            mantra for warding off the negative

            Karta
          • Jason Fishman
            I wouldn t mind hearing ho weither of you know that it s bad? In what way does one notice the manifistation of bad or good during any practice, especially one
            Message 5 of 19 , Apr 30, 2003
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              I wouldn't mind hearing ho weither of you know that
              it's bad? In what way does one notice the
              manifistation of bad or good during any practice,
              especially one that is about the understanding neither
              state?

              Peace and Love

              --- satkartar7 <mi_nok@...> wrote:
              > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
              > "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
              > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
              > medit8ionsociety
              > > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
              > > > Dear sir,
              > > > How should we react if we come into contact with
              > evil spirits during
              > > > the 3rd eye meditation. Will the evil spirits
              > harm me and how to
              > > deal
              > > > with them.
              > > > In most of your meditating techniques featured,
              > comment must not be
              > > > done during meditation, why is it so and what
              > will happen if one
              > > > really makes comments.
              > > > Thank you.
              > > > S.H.
              > >
              > > Dear SH:
              > >
              > > That was a very real fear in me also for many
              > years, that I would be
              > > possessed if I turned loose and submitted to the
              > meditation.
              > >
              > > For me it turned out that when I said to myself
              > that I was willing to
              > > die to know what it is like to submit, that the
              > fear was overcome.
              > >
              > > This told me it was really a fear of death I was
              > recoiling from, and
              > > that the demon fear was covering my fear of death.
              > >
              > > Commenting during meditation is very similar to
              > just "knowing".
              > > Knowing is acceptable. I hope someone will
              > correct me if I am wrong
              > > about this.
              > >
              > > Love
              > > Bobby G.
              >
              >
              > I agree with you Bobby, there is
              > a death-jump like feeling before
              > leaving the mind behind..a struggle
              >
              > In Shabd Yoga Meditation they give a
              > mantra for warding off the negative
              >
              > Karta
              >
              >


              __________________________________
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            • texasbg2000
              ... Good point Jason. I will let Karta answer from her perspective. for myself when I meditated I got to a place that seemed deep. It seemed like if I went
              Message 6 of 19 , Apr 30, 2003
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                --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Jason Fishman
                <munkiman4u@y...> wrote:
                > I wouldn't mind hearing ho weither of you know that
                > it's bad? In what way does one notice the
                > manifistation of bad or good during any practice,
                > especially one that is about the understanding neither
                > state?
                >
                > Peace and Love

                Good point Jason. I will let Karta answer from her perspective.

                for myself when I meditated I got to a place that seemed deep.
                It seemed like if I went any further I would lose control. I told
                myself i was willing to die but I had to know if I had wasted my time
                and had never really been willing to face my fears. I practiced a
                small affirmation that when the time came I would not back off
                again. So I was graced with Samadhi.

                The fears were of the unknown. Like a child that does not know
                monsters of the supernatural kind do not exist because they have not
                lived enough to know, I had to learn to be brave. It seems silly now
                but the fear was like a wisp of smoke and I have not seen it since.

                The question of negative or positive has to answered in context to an
                event and not as one of the rules in an objective universe that we
                must somehow find. In that sense, thoughts during meditation are bad.

                Love
                Bobby G.

                >
                > --- satkartar7 <mi_nok@y...> wrote:
                > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                > > "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
                > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                > > medit8ionsociety
                > > > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                > > > > Dear sir,
                > > > > How should we react if we come into contact with
                > > evil spirits during
                > > > > the 3rd eye meditation. Will the evil spirits
                > > harm me and how to
                > > > deal
                > > > > with them.
                > > > > In most of your meditating techniques featured,
                > > comment must not be
                > > > > done during meditation, why is it so and what
                > > will happen if one
                > > > > really makes comments.
                > > > > Thank you.
                > > > > S.H.
                > > >
                > > > Dear SH:
                > > >
                > > > That was a very real fear in me also for many
                > > years, that I would be
                > > > possessed if I turned loose and submitted to the
                > > meditation.
                > > >
                > > > For me it turned out that when I said to myself
                > > that I was willing to
                > > > die to know what it is like to submit, that the
                > > fear was overcome.
                > > >
                > > > This told me it was really a fear of death I was
                > > recoiling from, and
                > > > that the demon fear was covering my fear of death.
                > > >
                > > > Commenting during meditation is very similar to
                > > just "knowing".
                > > > Knowing is acceptable. I hope someone will
                > > correct me if I am wrong
                > > > about this.
                > > >
                > > > Love
                > > > Bobby G.
                > >
                > >
                > > I agree with you Bobby, there is
                > > a death-jump like feeling before
                > > leaving the mind behind..a struggle
                > >
                > > In Shabd Yoga Meditation they give a
                > > mantra for warding off the negative
                > >
                > > Karta
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                > __________________________________
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                > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
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              • Jason Fishman
                ... Jason: Yes depth, the shallow end of what we would all care to experience. Moving, powerful & overwhelming. As to say this is heaven or hell, either being
                Message 7 of 19 , Apr 30, 2003
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                  --- texasbg2000 <Bigbobgraham@...> wrote:
                  > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                  > Jason Fishman
                  > <munkiman4u@y...> wrote:
                  > > I wouldn't mind hearing ho weither of you know
                  > that
                  > > it's bad? In what way does one notice the
                  > > manifistation of bad or good during any practice,
                  > > especially one that is about the understanding
                  > neither
                  > > state?
                  > >
                  > > Peace and Love
                  >
                  > Good point Jason. I will let Karta answer from her
                  > perspective.
                  >
                  > for myself when I meditated I got to a place that
                  > seemed deep.

                  Jason: Yes depth, the shallow end of what we would all
                  care to experience. Moving, powerful & overwhelming.
                  As to say this is heaven or hell, either being deep
                  states of good or badness.

                  > It seemed like if I went any further I would lose
                  > control. I told
                  > myself i was willing to die but I had to know if I
                  > had wasted my time
                  > and had never really been willing to face my fears.

                  Jason: yes I understand this practice. On what one
                  would call a control issue, wouldn't someone with a
                  serious intent to kill, holding a gun to anothers head
                  be quite the same practice? Would you say there is a
                  better sense of control when one does this on their
                  own?

                  > I practiced a
                  > small affirmation that when the time came I would
                  > not back off
                  > again. So I was graced with Samadhi.

                  Jason: hmm, ponderous.

                  > The fears were of the unknown. Like a child that
                  > does not know
                  > monsters of the supernatural kind do not exist
                  > because they have not
                  > lived enough to know, I had to learn to be brave.
                  > It seems silly now
                  > but the fear was like a wisp of smoke and I have not
                  > seen it since.
                  >
                  > The question of negative or positive has to answered
                  > in context to an
                  > event and not as one of the rules in an objective
                  > universe that we
                  > must somehow find. In that sense, thoughts during
                  > meditation are bad.

                  Jason: I see, some thoughts outloud we share, thank
                  you! Fear of the unknown, the demon of all goodness
                  perhaps?

                  > Love
                  > Bobby G.

                  Peace and Love

                  __________________________________
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                  The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
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                • texasbg2000
                  ... No, not my meaning. With deep meditation at least in my case, thoughts slow and very few ideas are presented. The recurring one was will I be posessed,
                  Message 8 of 19 , Apr 30, 2003
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                    --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Jason Fishman
                    <munkiman4u@y...> wrote:

                    > > > I wouldn't mind hearing how either of you know
                    > > that
                    > > > it's bad? In what way does one notice the
                    > > > manifistation of bad or good during any practice,
                    > > > especially one that is about the understanding
                    > > neither
                    > > > state?
                    > > >
                    > > > Peace and Love
                    > >
                    > > Good point Jason. I will let Karta answer from her
                    > > perspective.
                    > >
                    > > for myself when I meditated I got to a place that
                    > > seemed deep.
                    >
                    > Jason: Yes depth, the shallow end of what we would all
                    > care to experience. Moving, powerful & overwhelming.
                    > As to say this is heaven or hell, either being deep
                    > states of good or badness.

                    No, not my meaning. With deep meditation at least in my case,
                    thoughts slow and very few ideas are presented. The recurring one
                    was will I be posessed, i.e., is the idea of meditation a misleading
                    conspiracy to get people to submit to a loss of control of themselves.

                    I found that idea to be wrong but only after I was 'at the end of my
                    rope'.

                    >
                    > > It seemed like if I went any further I would lose
                    > > control. I told
                    > > myself i was willing to die but I had to know if I
                    > > had wasted my time
                    > > and had never really been willing to face my fears.
                    >
                    > Jason: yes I understand this practice. On what one
                    > would call a control issue, wouldn't someone with a
                    > serious intent to kill, holding a gun to anothers head
                    > be quite the same practice? Would you say there is a
                    > better sense of control when one does this on their
                    > own?

                    could you go into this a little more? I dont understand your meaning.
                    I actually sat down and waited to die.

                    >
                    > > I practiced a
                    > > small affirmation that when the time came I would
                    > > not back off
                    > > again. So I was graced with Samadhi.
                    >
                    > Jason: hmm, ponderous.

                    I have done this a lot, get prepared for thoughts that I expect to
                    return. You seem critical? Could you explain please?

                    >
                    > > The fears were of the unknown. Like a child that
                    > > does not know
                    > > monsters of the supernatural kind do not exist
                    > > because they have not
                    > > lived enough to know, I had to learn to be brave.
                    > > It seems silly now
                    > > but the fear was like a wisp of smoke and I have not
                    > > seen it since.
                    > >
                    > > The question of negative or positive has to answered
                    > > in context to an
                    > > event and not as one of the rules in an objective
                    > > universe that we
                    > > must somehow find. In that sense, thoughts during
                    > > meditation are bad.
                    >
                    > Jason: I see, some thoughts outloud we share, thank
                    > you! Fear of the unknown, the demon of all goodness
                    > perhaps?

                    I don't see goodness as an entity and as I explained I gave up the
                    possibility of the demon.

                    > Peace and Love
                    >
                    Love
                    Bobby G.
                  • Jason Fishman
                    ... Jason: OK, I see the conspiracy side of thought as though to say something is being done to you. i.e. another putting the thought in your head that
                    Message 9 of 19 , Apr 30, 2003
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                      > > Jason: Yes depth, the shallow end of what we would
                      > all
                      > > care to experience. Moving, powerful &
                      > overwhelming.
                      > > As to say this is heaven or hell, either being
                      > deep
                      > > states of good or badness.
                      >
                      > No, not my meaning. With deep meditation at least
                      > in my case,
                      > thoughts slow and very few ideas are presented. The
                      > recurring one
                      > was will I be posessed, i.e., is the idea of
                      > meditation a misleading
                      > conspiracy to get people to submit to a loss of
                      > control of themselves.
                      >
                      > I found that idea to be wrong but only after I was
                      > 'at the end of my
                      > rope'.

                      Jason: OK, I see the conspiracy side of thought as
                      though to say something is being done to you. i.e.
                      another putting the thought in your head that
                      meditation is lovely, only to find out that it's a way
                      for another to control you (a demon, let's say).
                      Although, I do still question the control side, as to
                      say you are doing something to yourself or for
                      yourself. In the case of meditation, is the act of
                      meditation giving you something (either positive or
                      negative)? As to say does the peace you feel during
                      deep meditation give rise to a good feeling (not
                      thoughts in words, just feeling) Let's not address the
                      in between thought for now, as to say neti, neti.

                      > >
                      > > > It seemed like if I went any further I would
                      > lose
                      > > > control. I told
                      > > > myself i was willing to die but I had to know if
                      > I
                      > > > had wasted my time
                      > > > and had never really been willing to face my
                      > fears.
                      > >
                      > > Jason: yes I understand this practice. On what one
                      > > would call a control issue, wouldn't someone with
                      > a
                      > > serious intent to kill, holding a gun to anothers
                      > head
                      > > be quite the same practice? Would you say there is
                      > a
                      > > better sense of control when one does this on
                      > their
                      > > own?
                      >
                      > could you go into this a little more? I dont
                      > understand your meaning.
                      > I actually sat down and waited to die.

                      Jason: What is ment here is, is sitting and waiting to
                      die something other then have someone force your
                      eminent death apon you. Does this waiting to die seem
                      to give you the control as opposed to another taking
                      your life? If, so... Does this thought that you
                      control the outcome give you benift?

                      I have succumb to my own death in both situations, so
                      for me neither feel different, nor does there seem to
                      be a benifit or non-benifit to this illusion of an
                      end.

                      > >
                      > > > I practiced a
                      > > > small affirmation that when the time came I
                      > would
                      > > > not back off
                      > > > again. So I was graced with Samadhi.
                      > >
                      > > Jason: hmm, ponderous.
                      >
                      > I have done this a lot, get prepared for thoughts
                      > that I expect to
                      > return. You seem critical? Could you explain
                      > please?

                      Jason: The affirmation, that one will not back-off
                      next time. I was thinking about this backing off, this
                      letting go and again it seems to me a non-choice, nor
                      does it provide a benifit to partake in such a
                      practice.

                      Such to say that you can do everything imaginable to
                      remove the fear that you don't know whats around the
                      corner. There still remains enough suprises around the
                      corner to keep taht fear in check.

                      Much like going around the block to meet your
                      neighbors, you never know if you will be welcomed or
                      not. So there is a sense that you may not be, even if
                      you've been around the block a million times. There is
                      still enough unwelcoming to keep it interesting.


                      > >
                      > > > The fears were of the unknown. Like a child
                      > that
                      > > > does not know
                      > > > monsters of the supernatural kind do not exist
                      > > > because they have not
                      > > > lived enough to know, I had to learn to be
                      > brave.
                      > > > It seems silly now
                      > > > but the fear was like a wisp of smoke and I have
                      > not
                      > > > seen it since.
                      > > >
                      > > > The question of negative or positive has to
                      > answered
                      > > > in context to an
                      > > > event and not as one of the rules in an
                      > objective
                      > > > universe that we
                      > > > must somehow find. In that sense, thoughts
                      > during
                      > > > meditation are bad.
                      > >
                      > > Jason: I see, some thoughts outloud we share,
                      > thank
                      > > you! Fear of the unknown, the demon of all
                      > goodness
                      > > perhaps?
                      >
                      > I don't see goodness as an entity and as I explained
                      > I gave up the
                      > possibility of the demon.

                      Jason: I understand. Although it is most certain to me
                      that people don't care for each other (or for things),
                      not in the least, until a moment arises when the other
                      can do something to benifit them, then they care
                      deeply. What really could be exposed is this knowing
                      of oneself and of others, this may aid in the fight
                      against the demons of understanding motivations and
                      interplay in any relational experience. Even though
                      people walk around saying things like "she/he loves me
                      for me" or "he/she doesn't care", the bottom line is
                      that they don't care until they do. Who am I? A
                      selfish person, until those that benifit me are
                      clearly understood, regardless of any past or future
                      interplay. Death seems beyond a sense of self and is
                      also prior to any senses. Nothing begins nor does it
                      end, so I guess this is the end of another begining:)

                      > > Peace and Love
                      > >
                      > Love
                      > Bobby G.
                      >
                      >


                      __________________________________
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                      The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
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                    • texasbg2000
                      ... Isn t this a different topic. That of is meditation helpful? I believe meditating makes you better at meditation. ... The idea of control is slippery.
                      Message 10 of 19 , Apr 30, 2003
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                        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Jason Fishman
                        <munkiman4u@y...> wrote:
                        >
                        > > > Jason: Yes depth, the shallow end of what we would
                        > > all
                        > > > care to experience. Moving, powerful &
                        > > overwhelming.
                        > > > As to say this is heaven or hell, either being
                        > > deep
                        > > > states of good or badness.
                        > >
                        > > No, not my meaning. With deep meditation at least
                        > > in my case,
                        > > thoughts slow and very few ideas are presented. The
                        > > recurring one
                        > > was will I be posessed, i.e., is the idea of
                        > > meditation a misleading
                        > > conspiracy to get people to submit to a loss of
                        > > control of themselves.
                        > >
                        > > I found that idea to be wrong but only after I was
                        > > 'at the end of my
                        > > rope'.
                        >
                        > Jason: OK, I see the conspiracy side of thought as
                        > though to say something is being done to you. i.e.
                        > another putting the thought in your head that
                        > meditation is lovely, only to find out that it's a way
                        > for another to control you (a demon, let's say).
                        > Although, I do still question the control side, as to
                        > say you are doing something to yourself or for
                        > yourself. In the case of meditation, is the act of
                        > meditation giving you something (either positive or
                        > negative)? As to say does the peace you feel during
                        > deep meditation give rise to a good feeling (not
                        > thoughts in words, just feeling) Let's not address the
                        > in between thought for now, as to say neti, neti.
                        >

                        Isn't this a different topic. That of 'is meditation helpful?' I
                        believe meditating makes you better at meditation.

                        > > >
                        > > > > It seemed like if I went any further I would
                        > > lose
                        > > > > control. I told
                        > > > > myself i was willing to die but I had to know if
                        > > I
                        > > > > had wasted my time
                        > > > > and had never really been willing to face my
                        > > fears.
                        > > >
                        > > > Jason: yes I understand this practice. On what one
                        > > > would call a control issue, wouldn't someone with
                        > > a
                        > > > serious intent to kill, holding a gun to anothers
                        > > head
                        > > > be quite the same practice? Would you say there is
                        > > a
                        > > > better sense of control when one does this on
                        > > their
                        > > > own?
                        > >
                        > > could you go into this a little more? I dont
                        > > understand your meaning.
                        > > I actually sat down and waited to die.
                        >
                        > Jason: What is ment here is, is sitting and waiting to
                        > die something other then have someone force your
                        > eminent death apon you. Does this waiting to die seem
                        > to give you the control as opposed to another taking
                        > your life? If, so... Does this thought that you
                        > control the outcome give you benift?

                        The idea of control is slippery. "Controlling the senses" sounds
                        like an act of doing something but in fact is the act of not doing
                        anything: not being influenced in any way enough to let the senses
                        take focus from meditation.

                        Submitting to fear is different in type than submitting to a loss of
                        control, which is in effect, control of the senses.

                        Eminent death is different. It is said that even the sages quake
                        when death is near.

                        >
                        > I have succumb to my own death in both situations, so
                        > for me neither feel different, nor does there seem to
                        > be a benifit or non-benifit to this illusion of an
                        > end.
                        >
                        > > >
                        > > > > I practiced a
                        > > > > small affirmation that when the time came I
                        > > would
                        > > > > not back off
                        > > > > again. So I was graced with Samadhi.
                        > > >
                        > > > Jason: hmm, ponderous.
                        > >
                        > > I have done this a lot, get prepared for thoughts
                        > > that I expect to
                        > > return. You seem critical? Could you explain
                        > > please?
                        >
                        > Jason: The affirmation, that one will not back-off
                        > next time. I was thinking about this backing off, this
                        > letting go and again it seems to me a non-choice, nor
                        > does it provide a benifit to partake in such a
                        > practice.
                        >
                        > Such to say that you can do everything imaginable to
                        > remove the fear that you don't know whats around the
                        > corner. There still remains enough suprises around the
                        > corner to keep taht fear in check.
                        >
                        > Much like going around the block to meet your
                        > neighbors, you never know if you will be welcomed or
                        > not. So there is a sense that you may not be, even if
                        > you've been around the block a million times. There is
                        > still enough unwelcoming to keep it interesting.

                        I believed in the love and wisdom I read and experienced and I saw
                        too much system leading forward and this helped me lose fear.

                        The fear dwindled I think because it was not about a real thing and
                        reality had grown more present in my life. Of course fear of the
                        unknown disappears entirely when it is seen to be unfounded.

                        The main point is that fear of being possessed was for me a diversion
                        from the real fear. The fear of death is a big one and too massive
                        to confront so I substituted something I could handle, the fear of
                        possession.

                        >
                        > > >
                        > > > > The fears were of the unknown. Like a child
                        > > that
                        > > > > does not know
                        > > > > monsters of the supernatural kind do not exist
                        > > > > because they have not
                        > > > > lived enough to know, I had to learn to be
                        > > brave.
                        > > > > It seems silly now
                        > > > > but the fear was like a wisp of smoke and I have
                        > > not
                        > > > > seen it since.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > The question of negative or positive has to
                        > > answered
                        > > > > in context to an
                        > > > > event and not as one of the rules in an
                        > > objective
                        > > > > universe that we
                        > > > > must somehow find. In that sense, thoughts
                        > > during
                        > > > > meditation are bad.
                        > > >
                        > > > Jason: I see, some thoughts outloud we share,
                        > > thank
                        > > > you! Fear of the unknown, the demon of all
                        > > goodness
                        > > > perhaps?
                        > >
                        > > I don't see goodness as an entity and as I explained
                        > > I gave up the
                        > > possibility of the demon.
                        >
                        > Jason: I understand. Although it is most certain to me
                        > that people don't care for each other (or for things),
                        > not in the least, until a moment arises when the other
                        > can do something to benifit them, then they care
                        > deeply. What really could be exposed is this knowing
                        > of oneself and of others, this may aid in the fight
                        > against the demons of understanding motivations and
                        > interplay in any relational experience. Even though
                        > people walk around saying things like "she/he loves me
                        > for me" or "he/she doesn't care", the bottom line is
                        > that they don't care until they do. Who am I? A
                        > selfish person, until those that benifit me are
                        > clearly understood, regardless of any past or future
                        > interplay. Death seems beyond a sense of self and is
                        > also prior to any senses. Nothing begins nor does it
                        > end, so I guess this is the end of another begining:)

                        I found that I love the truth. It is the simple act of knowing and
                        it is the greatest gift of all. I don't think it is important if
                        that is selfish or not.

                        I do things for selfish reasons sometimes but when I find myself
                        lying to myself to continue doing that thing then my tendency is to
                        stop the lie and give up the benefit. That that gives me a greater
                        benefit is beside the point.

                        Love
                        Bobby G.
                      • satkartar7
                        ... in this case Jason, it is just the same, since the moment of breaking meditation alreay happened: with the notice of negativity later, when out of
                        Message 11 of 19 , May 1, 2003
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                          Jason Fishman <munkiman4u@y...> wrote:
                          > I wouldn't mind hearing ho weither of you know that
                          > it's bad? In what way does one notice the
                          > manifistation of bad or good during any practice,
                          > especially one that is about the understanding neither
                          > state?
                          >
                          > Peace and Love
                          >


                          in this case Jason, it is just the
                          same, since the moment of breaking meditation alreay happened: with
                          the notice of negativity

                          later, when "out" of meditation it is
                          a good thing to do vichara: "why did,
                          and why that type of negative entity
                          appear, and what does it mean"

                          it is usually one's supressed sub
                          conscious mind manifesting [a painful
                          uggly mirror, but must be done]

                          Karta



                          > --- satkartar7 <mi_nok@y...> wrote:
                          > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                          > > "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
                          > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                          > > medit8ionsociety
                          > > > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                          > > > > Dear sir,
                          > > > > How should we react if we come into contact with
                          > > evil spirits during
                          > > > > the 3rd eye meditation. Will the evil spirits
                          > > harm me and how to
                          > > > deal
                          > > > > with them.
                          > > > > In most of your meditating techniques featured,
                          > > comment must not be
                          > > > > done during meditation, why is it so and what
                          > > will happen if one
                          > > > > really makes comments.
                          > > > > Thank you.
                          > > > > S.H.
                          > > >
                          > > > Dear SH:
                          > > >
                          > > > That was a very real fear in me also for many
                          > > years, that I would be
                          > > > possessed if I turned loose and submitted to the
                          > > meditation.
                          > > >
                          > > > For me it turned out that when I said to myself
                          > > that I was willing to
                          > > > die to know what it is like to submit, that the
                          > > fear was overcome.
                          > > >
                          > > > This told me it was really a fear of death I was
                          > > recoiling from, and
                          > > > that the demon fear was covering my fear of death.
                          > > >
                          > > > Commenting during meditation is very similar to
                          > > just "knowing".
                          > > > Knowing is acceptable. I hope someone will
                          > > correct me if I am wrong
                          > > > about this.
                          > > >
                          > > > Love
                          > > > Bobby G.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > I agree with you Bobby, there is
                          > > a death-jump like feeling before
                          > > leaving the mind behind..a struggle
                          > >
                          > > In Shabd Yoga Meditation they give a
                          > > mantra for warding off the negative
                          > >
                          > > Karta
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          > __________________________________
                          > Do you Yahoo!?
                          > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
                          > http://search.yahoo.com
                        • satkartar7
                          ... yes, Bobby, the death-jump [leaving the mind behind for deeper cleaning ] in meditation is hard very hard and here lies the genius of the sound part of
                          Message 12 of 19 , May 1, 2003
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                            "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
                            > --- In Jason Fishman
                            > <munkiman4u@y...> wrote:
                            > > I wouldn't mind hearing ho weither of you know that
                            > > it's bad? In what way does one notice the
                            > > manifistation of bad or good during any practice,
                            > > especially one that is about the understanding neither
                            > > state?
                            > >
                            > > Peace and Love
                            >
                            > Good point Jason. I will let Karta answer from her perspective.
                            >
                            > for myself when I meditated I got to a place that seemed deep.
                            > It seemed like if I went any further I would lose control. I told
                            > myself i was willing to die but I had to know if I had wasted my time
                            > and had never really been willing to face my fears.


                            yes, Bobby, the "death-jump" [leaving
                            the "mind" behind for deeper"cleaning"]
                            in meditation is hard very hard and
                            here lies the genius of the sound
                            part of the Sabd Yoga meditation,
                            sinc it does mesmerize one: no place
                            for any cognition and before you
                            "notice" .. you are on the way

                            Love, Karta


                            > I practiced a
                            > small affirmation that when the time came I would not back off
                            > again. So I was graced with Samadhi.
                            >
                            > The fears were of the unknown. Like a child that does not know
                            > monsters of the supernatural kind do not exist because they have not
                            > lived enough to know, I had to learn to be brave. It seems silly now
                            > but the fear was like a wisp of smoke and I have not seen it since.
                            >
                            > The question of negative or positive has to answered in context to an
                            > event and not as one of the rules in an objective universe that we
                            > must somehow find. In that sense, thoughts during meditation are bad.
                            >
                            > Love
                            > Bobby G.
                            >
                            > >
                            > > --- satkartar7 <mi_nok@y...> wrote:
                            > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                            > > > "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
                            > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                            > > > medit8ionsociety
                            > > > > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                            > > > > > Dear sir,
                            > > > > > How should we react if we come into contact with
                            > > > evil spirits during
                            > > > > > the 3rd eye meditation. Will the evil spirits
                            > > > harm me and how to
                            > > > > deal
                            > > > > > with them.
                            > > > > > In most of your meditating techniques featured,
                            > > > comment must not be
                            > > > > > done during meditation, why is it so and what
                            > > > will happen if one
                            > > > > > really makes comments.
                            > > > > > Thank you.
                            > > > > > S.H.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Dear SH:
                            > > > >
                            > > > > That was a very real fear in me also for many
                            > > > years, that I would be
                            > > > > possessed if I turned loose and submitted to the
                            > > > meditation.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > For me it turned out that when I said to myself
                            > > > that I was willing to
                            > > > > die to know what it is like to submit, that the
                            > > > fear was overcome.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > This told me it was really a fear of death I was
                            > > > recoiling from, and
                            > > > > that the demon fear was covering my fear of death.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Commenting during meditation is very similar to
                            > > > just "knowing".
                            > > > > Knowing is acceptable. I hope someone will
                            > > > correct me if I am wrong
                            > > > > about this.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Love
                            > > > > Bobby G.
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > I agree with you Bobby, there is
                            > > > a death-jump like feeling before
                            > > > leaving the mind behind..a struggle
                            > > >
                            > > > In Shabd Yoga Meditation they give a
                            > > > mantra for warding off the negative
                            > > >
                            > > > Karta
                          • texasbg2000
                            ... time ... hi Karta: Could you post that Sabd Yoga meditation? I have a sound meditation where the sound is always present and I can hear it even when
                            Message 13 of 19 , May 1, 2003
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                              --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "satkartar7"
                              <mi_nok@y...> wrote:
                              > "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
                              > > --- In Jason Fishman
                              > > <munkiman4u@y...> wrote:
                              > > > I wouldn't mind hearing ho weither of you know that
                              > > > it's bad? In what way does one notice the
                              > > > manifistation of bad or good during any practice,
                              > > > especially one that is about the understanding neither
                              > > > state?
                              > > >
                              > > > Peace and Love
                              > >
                              > > Good point Jason. I will let Karta answer from her perspective.
                              > >
                              > > for myself when I meditated I got to a place that seemed deep.
                              > > It seemed like if I went any further I would lose control. I told
                              > > myself i was willing to die but I had to know if I had wasted my
                              time
                              > > and had never really been willing to face my fears.
                              >
                              >
                              > yes, Bobby, the "death-jump" [leaving
                              > the "mind" behind for deeper"cleaning"]
                              > in meditation is hard very hard and
                              > here lies the genius of the sound
                              > part of the Sabd Yoga meditation,
                              > sinc it does mesmerize one: no place
                              > for any cognition and before you
                              > "notice" .. you are on the way
                              >
                              > Love, Karta

                              hi Karta:

                              Could you post that Sabd Yoga meditation? I have a sound meditation
                              where the sound is always present and I can hear it even when talking
                              or listening. Is it similar to that? Even with it the fear of
                              possession bumped me many times.

                              Bobby G.

                              >
                              >
                              > > I practiced a
                              > > small affirmation that when the time came I would not back off
                              > > again. So I was graced with Samadhi.
                              > >
                              > > The fears were of the unknown. Like a child that does not know
                              > > monsters of the supernatural kind do not exist because they have
                              not
                              > > lived enough to know, I had to learn to be brave. It seems silly
                              now
                              > > but the fear was like a wisp of smoke and I have not seen it
                              since.
                              > >
                              > > The question of negative or positive has to answered in context
                              to an
                              > > event and not as one of the rules in an objective universe that
                              we
                              > > must somehow find. In that sense, thoughts during meditation are
                              bad.
                              > >
                              > > Love
                              > > Bobby G.
                              > >
                              > > >
                              > > > --- satkartar7 <mi_nok@y...> wrote:
                              > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                              > > > > "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
                              > > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                              > > > > medit8ionsociety
                              > > > > > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                              > > > > > > Dear sir,
                              > > > > > > How should we react if we come into contact with
                              > > > > evil spirits during
                              > > > > > > the 3rd eye meditation. Will the evil spirits
                              > > > > harm me and how to
                              > > > > > deal
                              > > > > > > with them.
                              > > > > > > In most of your meditating techniques featured,
                              > > > > comment must not be
                              > > > > > > done during meditation, why is it so and what
                              > > > > will happen if one
                              > > > > > > really makes comments.
                              > > > > > > Thank you.
                              > > > > > > S.H.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Dear SH:
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > That was a very real fear in me also for many
                              > > > > years, that I would be
                              > > > > > possessed if I turned loose and submitted to the
                              > > > > meditation.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > For me it turned out that when I said to myself
                              > > > > that I was willing to
                              > > > > > die to know what it is like to submit, that the
                              > > > > fear was overcome.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > This told me it was really a fear of death I was
                              > > > > recoiling from, and
                              > > > > > that the demon fear was covering my fear of death.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Commenting during meditation is very similar to
                              > > > > just "knowing".
                              > > > > > Knowing is acceptable. I hope someone will
                              > > > > correct me if I am wrong
                              > > > > > about this.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Love
                              > > > > > Bobby G.
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > I agree with you Bobby, there is
                              > > > > a death-jump like feeling before
                              > > > > leaving the mind behind..a struggle
                              > > > >
                              > > > > In Shabd Yoga Meditation they give a
                              > > > > mantra for warding off the negative
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Karta
                            • Jason Fishman
                              ... Jason: Why only in this case? Would you say that meditation is broken by negativity? ... Jason: I don t believe I suffer from this reflection you speak
                              Message 14 of 19 , May 1, 2003
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                                --- satkartar7 <mi_nok@...> wrote:
                                > Jason Fishman <munkiman4u@y...> wrote:
                                > > I wouldn't mind hearing ho weither of you know
                                > that
                                > > it's bad? In what way does one notice the
                                > > manifistation of bad or good during any practice,
                                > > especially one that is about the understanding
                                > neither
                                > > state?
                                > >
                                > > Peace and Love
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                > in this case Jason, it is just the
                                > same, since the moment of breaking meditation
                                > alreay happened: with
                                > the notice of negativity

                                Jason: Why only in this case? Would you say that
                                meditation is broken by negativity?

                                > later, when "out" of meditation it is
                                > a good thing to do vichara: "why did,
                                > and why that type of negative entity
                                > appear, and what does it mean"

                                Jason: I don't believe I suffer from this reflection
                                you speak of.. This giving meaning to why something
                                occured. In relfection however, I once did this
                                extensively.

                                > it is usually one's supressed sub
                                > conscious mind manifesting [a painful
                                > uggly mirror, but must be done]

                                Jason: I actually enjoy the painful, ugly mirror. It
                                makes sense to me, since everyone outside is the ugly
                                reflection of my insides that I would love to
                                confront, yet I can't seem to find anywhere in my
                                world.

                                Thanks Karta

                                Peace and Love

                                > Karta


                                __________________________________
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                                The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
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                              • satkartar7
                                ... Hi Bobby here is the sound meditation page the second one by Kirpal if you click on onlinebooks than on Naam there is more to read about the sound and the
                                Message 15 of 19 , May 2, 2003
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                                  > hi Karta:
                                  >
                                  > Could you post that Sabd Yoga meditation? I have a sound meditation
                                  > where the sound is always present and I can hear it even when talking
                                  > or listening. Is it similar to that? Even with it the fear of
                                  > possession bumped me many times.
                                  >
                                  > Bobby G.
                                  >

                                  Hi Bobby here is the sound meditation
                                  page the second one by Kirpal if you
                                  click on onlinebooks than on Naam
                                  there is more to read about the sound
                                  and the third you find Gurdijeff
                                  movement diagram 'he taught a yoga-
                                  dance' like magick diagramm of steps
                                  and movements coordinated with emotions
                                  .. I have to look it up: he was
                                  initiated to and used the nadi-sound
                                  of Aum also. So is Keith Richards, Erick
                                  Clapton Shania Twain and many musicians
                                  it is a great tool in meditation

                                  <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/santmat/shabd-1.html>
                                  <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/santmat/kirpal.html>
                                  <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/2/sufiart.htm>

                                  Posession by the Aum, no I don't
                                  think so.

                                  Love, Karta
                                • texasbg2000
                                  ... meditation ... talking ... Thank you Karta, it is the same meditation I have been using. Probably the possession thing came out of my early Baptist
                                  Message 16 of 19 , May 2, 2003
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                                    --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "satkartar7"
                                    <mi_nok@y...> wrote:
                                    > > hi Karta:
                                    > >
                                    > > Could you post that Sabd Yoga meditation? I have a sound
                                    meditation
                                    > > where the sound is always present and I can hear it even when
                                    talking
                                    > > or listening. Is it similar to that? Even with it the fear of
                                    > > possession bumped me many times.
                                    > >
                                    > > Bobby G.
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    > Hi Bobby here is the sound meditation
                                    > page the second one by Kirpal if you
                                    > click on onlinebooks than on Naam
                                    > there is more to read about the sound
                                    > and the third you find Gurdijeff
                                    > movement diagram 'he taught a yoga-
                                    > dance' like magick diagramm of steps
                                    > and movements coordinated with emotions
                                    > .. I have to look it up: he was
                                    > initiated to and used the nadi-sound
                                    > of Aum also. So is Keith Richards, Erick
                                    > Clapton Shania Twain and many musicians
                                    > it is a great tool in meditation
                                    >
                                    > <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/santmat/shabd-1.html>
                                    > <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/santmat/kirpal.html>
                                    > <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/2/sufiart.htm>
                                    >
                                    > Posession by the Aum, no I don't
                                    > think so.
                                    >
                                    > Love, Karta

                                    Thank you Karta, it is the same meditation I have been using.

                                    Probably the possession thing came out of my early Baptist training
                                    and movies.
                                    Love
                                    Bobby G.
                                  • medit8ionsociety
                                    texasbg2000 wrote: snip ... Hi, The fear of possession may have a much earlier origion than movies or Baptist stuff. As a matter of fact,
                                    Message 17 of 19 , May 2, 2003
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                                      "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
                                      snip
                                      Karta:
                                      > > Hi Bobby here is the sound meditation
                                      > > page the second one by Kirpal if you
                                      > > click on onlinebooks than on Naam
                                      > > there is more to read about the sound
                                      > > and the third you find Gurdijeff
                                      > > movement diagram 'he taught a yoga-
                                      > > dance' like magick diagramm of steps
                                      > > and movements coordinated with emotions
                                      > > .. I have to look it up: he was
                                      > > initiated to and used the nadi-sound
                                      > > of Aum also. So is Keith Richards, Erick
                                      > > Clapton Shania Twain and many musicians
                                      > > it is a great tool in meditation
                                      > >
                                      > > <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/santmat/shabd-1.html>
                                      > > <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/santmat/kirpal.html>
                                      > > <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/2/sufiart.htm>
                                      > >
                                      > > Posession by the Aum, no I don't
                                      > > think so.
                                      > >
                                      > > Love, Karta

                                      Bobby G:
                                      > Thank you Karta, it is the same meditation I have been using.
                                      >
                                      > Probably the possession thing came out of my early Baptist training
                                      > and movies.
                                      > Love
                                      > Bobby G.

                                      Hi,
                                      The fear of possession may have a much earlier origion than movies or
                                      Baptist stuff. As a matter of fact, in may be in our very oldest and
                                      deepest genetic memories. In the days before fire, a caveman probably
                                      sat in the dark shaking with fear of the roars and growls of the
                                      predators roaming around outside. He very likely stuck his fingers in
                                      his ears, or plugged them up with dirt or whatever was handy, to shut
                                      out the terrifying sounds. This was the start of man looking within,
                                      and finding and listening to the inner "divine harmonies", "celestial
                                      choirs", and so on, that every religion and "way" has reported from
                                      that time on. Similarly, he would have likely become much more aware
                                      of his breath, and it is probable that this would have also been the
                                      start of the Soham meditation, and other pranayama techniques. And he
                                      also probably had his eyes shut tightly at different times and would
                                      have likely eventually focused on the 3rd eye area, and the inner
                                      door to cosmic vision would have opened. All of this would have led
                                      his newly evolved frontal lobe activity to start the enquiry
                                      into "Who am I?", What is this life about", and so on. And thus
                                      meditation began and continues until this very moment. So, how come
                                      they call it "New Age"?:-)
                                      Peace and blessings,
                                      Bob
                                    • texasbg2000
                                      ... training ... or ... and ... probably ... in ... shut ... within, ... harmonies , celestial ... aware ... the ... he ... would ... LOL. Yeah. At some
                                      Message 18 of 19 , May 2, 2003
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                                        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
                                        <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                                        > "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
                                        > snip
                                        > Karta:
                                        > > > Hi Bobby here is the sound meditation
                                        > > > page the second one by Kirpal if you
                                        > > > click on onlinebooks than on Naam
                                        > > > there is more to read about the sound
                                        > > > and the third you find Gurdijeff
                                        > > > movement diagram 'he taught a yoga-
                                        > > > dance' like magick diagramm of steps
                                        > > > and movements coordinated with emotions
                                        > > > .. I have to look it up: he was
                                        > > > initiated to and used the nadi-sound
                                        > > > of Aum also. So is Keith Richards, Erick
                                        > > > Clapton Shania Twain and many musicians
                                        > > > it is a great tool in meditation
                                        > > >
                                        > > > <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/santmat/shabd-1.html>
                                        > > > <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/santmat/kirpal.html>
                                        > > > <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/2/sufiart.htm>
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Posession by the Aum, no I don't
                                        > > > think so.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Love, Karta
                                        >
                                        > Bobby G:
                                        > > Thank you Karta, it is the same meditation I have been using.
                                        > >
                                        > > Probably the possession thing came out of my early Baptist
                                        training
                                        > > and movies.
                                        > > Love
                                        > > Bobby G.
                                        >
                                        > Hi,
                                        > The fear of possession may have a much earlier origion than movies
                                        or
                                        > Baptist stuff. As a matter of fact, in may be in our very oldest
                                        and
                                        > deepest genetic memories. In the days before fire, a caveman
                                        probably
                                        > sat in the dark shaking with fear of the roars and growls of the
                                        > predators roaming around outside. He very likely stuck his fingers
                                        in
                                        > his ears, or plugged them up with dirt or whatever was handy, to
                                        shut
                                        > out the terrifying sounds. This was the start of man looking
                                        within,
                                        > and finding and listening to the inner "divine
                                        harmonies", "celestial
                                        > choirs", and so on, that every religion and "way" has reported from
                                        > that time on. Similarly, he would have likely become much more
                                        aware
                                        > of his breath, and it is probable that this would have also been
                                        the
                                        > start of the Soham meditation, and other pranayama techniques. And
                                        he
                                        > also probably had his eyes shut tightly at different times and
                                        would
                                        > have likely eventually focused on the 3rd eye area, and the inner
                                        > door to cosmic vision would have opened. All of this would have led
                                        > his newly evolved frontal lobe activity to start the enquiry
                                        > into "Who am I?", What is this life about", and so on. And thus
                                        > meditation began and continues until this very moment. So, how come
                                        > they call it "New Age"?:-)
                                        > Peace and blessings,
                                        > Bob

                                        LOL. Yeah.

                                        At some point someone had to say "Egad, eureka! This is awesome!" I
                                        know I did. It was in Cincinatti.

                                        Bobby G.
                                      • satkartar7
                                        ... ly@y... wrote: texasbg2000 wrote: snip Karta: Hi Bobby here is the sound meditation page the second one by Kirpal
                                        Message 19 of 19 , May 3, 2003
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety <no_rep=
                                          ly@y...> wrote:
                                          > "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
                                          > snip
                                          > Karta:
                                          > > > Hi Bobby here is the sound meditation
                                          > > > page the second one by Kirpal if you
                                          > > > click on onlinebooks than on Naam
                                          > > > there is more to read about the sound
                                          > > > and the third you find Gurdijeff
                                          > > > movement diagram 'he taught a yoga-
                                          > > > dance' like magick diagramm of steps
                                          > > > and movements coordinated with emotions
                                          > > > .. I have to look it up: he was
                                          > > > initiated to and used the nadi-sound
                                          > > > of Aum also. So is Keith Richards, Erick
                                          > > > Clapton Shania Twain and many musicians
                                          > > > it is a great tool in meditation
                                          > > >
                                          > > > <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/santmat/shabd-1.html>
                                          > > > <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/santmat/kirpal.html>
                                          > > > <http://www.santmat-meditation.net/2/sufiart.htm>
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Posession by the Aum, no I don't
                                          > > > think so.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Love, Karta
                                          >
                                          > Bobby G:
                                          > > Thank you Karta, it is the same meditation I have been using.
                                          > >
                                          > > Probably the possession thing came out of my early Baptist training
                                          > > and movies.
                                          > > Love
                                          > > Bobby G.
                                          >
                                          > Hi,
                                          > The fear of possession may have a much earlier origion than movies or
                                          > Baptist stuff. As a matter of fact, in may be in our very oldest and
                                          > deepest genetic memories. In the days before fire, a caveman probably
                                          > sat in the dark shaking with fear of the roars and growls of the
                                          > predators roaming around outside. He very likely stuck his fingers in
                                          > his ears, or plugged them up with dirt or whatever was handy, to shut
                                          > out the terrifying sounds. This was the start of man looking within,
                                          > and finding and listening to the inner "divine harmonies", "celestial
                                          > choirs", and so on, that every religion and "way" has reported from
                                          > that time on. Similarly, he would have likely become much more aware
                                          > of his breath, and it is probable that this would have also been the
                                          > start of the Soham meditation, and other pranayama techniques. And he
                                          > also probably had his eyes shut tightly at different times and would
                                          > have likely eventually focused on the 3rd eye area, and the inner
                                          > door to cosmic vision would have opened. All of this would have led
                                          > his newly evolved frontal lobe activity to start the enquiry
                                          > into "Who am I?", What is this life about", and so on. And thus
                                          > meditation began and continues until this very moment. So, how come
                                          > they call it "New Age"?:-)
                                          > Peace and blessings,
                                          > Bob


                                          yes, fear is deep seated, Dam must
                                          know a lot about this.

                                          The just hatched from the eggs chiks
                                          have a memory already of the fear of
                                          a big-bird or eagle flying above them Experiment sowed that if the shadow o=
                                          f
                                          a paper kyte is above them they run
                                          wild for cover chirping loudly


                                          Love, Karta
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