Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: "Real" Meditation

Expand Messages
  • Judi Rhodes
    ... From: G To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2003 10:55 AM Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Real Meditation
    Message 1 of 25 , Apr 27, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: G
      To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2003 10:55 AM
      Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: "Real" Meditation


      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Judi
      Rhodes" <judirhodes@z...> wrote:
      > Da Free John:
      >
      > "Real" mediation does not do anything for you. It has no
      purpose. When one begins some form of seeking, one
      immediately turns to an effective, remedial technique that will get
      one quickly to one's goal. Thus, when one adapts to various
      kinds of religious and spiritual effort, one begins almost
      immediately to meditate in some fashion. The Christian and the
      devotee begin to pray and adapt to relgious forms. The spiritual
      seeker begins to concentrate and internalize the mind. Others
      use drugs, study, critical thought, relaxation and poetry, pleasure
      and so forth.
      >
      > But real ife, the way of radical understanding, is not another
      form of seeking. For one who understands, meditation is not
      adopted for the sake of something else. Such a one does not
      pursue understanding or reality or any kind of experience
      through meditation. "Real" meditation is already a radical
      activity. It "is" understanding.
      >
      > In the logic of Narcissus, the separative mentality, all things
      are seeking. But one who understands perceives the logic of
      reality and lives on the basis of that logic. Therefore, such a one
      is not strategically concerned about meditation. The business of
      one who understands is understanding, not ascent, vision,
      transformation, liberation, or any other goal. Understanding
      recognizes the fruitlessness of seeking.
      >
      > "Real" meditation cannot be done by egoic effort, or strategy.
      Therefore. "real" meditation cannot, itself, be recommended, or
      prescribed. There is only understanding. Therefore,
      understand. And when the process of understanding has
      become self-observation, reflection, and radical insight, then the
      state of conscious awareness "is" real meditation. When
      understanding has become a radical process, and the
      avoidance of relationship has been inclusively and sufficiently
      recognized, when you have understood that seeking is all a
      function of dilemma and when you are no longer moved to seek
      by the physical, the mental, or the spiritual problem, then you are
      already and really meditating.
      >
      > The usual meditation is only a consolation, an effect, and a
      good feeling. It provides no radical reversal of ordinary
      consciousness, and thus, when situations arise out of
      meditation, the person has no control over the process of
      identification, differentiation, and desire.
      >
      > Only radical understanding avails. It is the intelligence of
      reality itself. It is not attached to some body or some conditional
      realm, or some conditional experience that is seen as the
      alternative, remedy, cure, and source of victory. It knows that
      every motive and action is made of avoidance. Thus, it has no
      recourse except to understand.
      >
      > Understanding arises when there are true listening to my word
      and true self-observation in relationship. Therefore, observe
      yourself in life. Observe yourself when you seek. Observe
      yourself when you suffer to any degree. Observe your motives.
      Observe the activity of identification. Observe the activity of
      differentiation. Observe the activity of desire. Observe the
      patterns of your existence.
      >
      > When you see that you are always seeking, understanding is
      emerging. When you see the pattern of Narcissus as all your
      motives, all your acts, all your seeking, understanding is
      emerging. When you see you are always suffering,
      understanding is emerging. When you see that every moment is
      a process in dilemma, understanding is emerging. When you
      see that every moment is a process of identification,
      differentiation, and desire, understanding is emerging. When
      you see that every moment, when you are at your best as well as
      when you are at your worst, you are only avoiding relationship,
      then you understand.
      >
      > Understanding is the recognition of seeking as the active
      principle of one's life. It recognizes the effects of seeking, its
      qualities and sources, the areas of its operation and the
      methods of its functioning. It sees that seeking is the substance
      and the entire meaning of every moment of one's ordinary life.
      >
      > But radical understanding, since it is radically aware of
      seeking, is not seeking. Radical understanding is prior to and
      apart from every kind of seeking and the entire drama or ordinary
      life. Therefore, it not only sees all life as seeking, but Enjoys
      itself as fundamental reality, prior to all seeking. It realizes no
      seeking, non-avoidance, non-separation, unqualified
      relatedness, and unqualified consciousness.
      >
      >
      >
      > Happy Days,
      > Judi


      G: like i said before and say again Meditation is the way out.....
      the way out is through.......
      you have always attempted to lump whatever is said as a
      way to create some false state...... i have never promoted
      that type of meditation..... i don't advocate affirmations or
      self help courses.......
      the meditation i give is just this ...... one that brings you
      into direct cognition of what is going on in your life Now......
      and to allow you space to confront the illusions........

      so once again you have been attacking something which
      you yourself promote........ Real Meditation......

      try seeing what is really being said, rather than what you
      think is being said....... this radical understanding is also
      simply a step along the way to Realization...... there is yet
      a further step........ seeing through the bogus life holdings
      brings relief and frees one to then delve even deeper into
      what held it in place and created the dynamic in the first
      place and that is the "I" identity itself..... this is the last
      confrontation and surrender when it blows out it is over.........

      ****** Unlike yourself, I am not *promoting* anything, no way, no methods, no nothing, no how. Only understanding which is already the case.

      Seeking is one thing, understanding is quite another!

      Judi





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • judirhodes
      ... methods, no nothing, no how. Only understanding which is already the case. ... ********* And surely I would be a fool to do otherwise. Let the blind lead
      Message 2 of 25 , Apr 27, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        >
        > ****** Unlike yourself, I am not *promoting* anything, no way, no
        methods, no nothing, no how. Only understanding which is already the
        case.
        >
        > Seeking is one thing, understanding is quite another!
        >
        > Judi
        >
        ********* And surely I would be a fool to do otherwise.

        Let the blind lead the blind.

        Judi
      • G
        ... no methods, no nothing, no how. Only understanding which is already the case. ... G: there is nothing being *promoted* contrary to what you want to keep
        Message 3 of 25 , Apr 27, 2003
        • 0 Attachment
          > ****** Unlike yourself, I am not *promoting* anything, no way,
          no methods, no nothing, no how. Only understanding which is
          already the case.
          >
          > Seeking is one thing, understanding is quite another!
          >
          > Judi


          G: there is nothing being *promoted* contrary to what you want
          to keep attempting to allude to ..... what i speak of is what
          remains after ..... it is not a goal to be acheived......

          in confronting your self or your bull shit as you like to say that IS
          a *method*.....

          otherwise you are simply stuck in the same non-ending
          patterns....... or are you *Really* advocating being stuck in
          whatever crap you are in....?

          no you don't already *understand* anything because if you did
          you wouldn't be stuck in the first place.... and Knowing or
          understanding can ONLY come about once everything has been
          confronted and found to be false......

          Whether it is lifestyle, issues, or eventually the self identity upon
          which all these hang in the first place.......

          there is nowhere to be other than here, but there are differing
          qualities of being here..... one is here in freedom and that
          remains after Knowing the truth from the illusion and
          delusion...... another is caught in the mire of no way out and no
          way through ..... another is caught in simply the quagmire of
          complacency.........

          truly you can't be advocating complacency ? because that or
          depressive oppression is what most are stuck within and that is
          where their understanding lies ...... so to say that everyone has
          understanding already in place is really nonsense.......

          it takes a motion to look and see and to confront and surrender
          to break through the modes of illusion........ and that my dear is
          where mindful awareness and self enquiry come into place.....

          meditation is contemplation that comes from the naturally
          stilling mind....... when it is not a practice or is going on hand in
          hand with mindful awareness eventually it leads to the mind of
          quiescence ......
        • G
          ... way, no ... already the ... G: well if anyone knows about the blind leading the blind it would be you...... now don t fall in any ditches.......
          Message 4 of 25 , Apr 27, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
            "judirhodes" <judirhodes@z...> wrote:
            > >
            > > ****** Unlike yourself, I am not *promoting* anything, no
            way, no
            > methods, no nothing, no how. Only understanding which is
            already the
            > case.
            > >
            > > Seeking is one thing, understanding is quite another!
            > >
            > > Judi
            > >
            > ********* And surely I would be a fool to do otherwise.
            >
            > Let the blind lead the blind.
            >
            > Judi


            G: well if anyone knows about the blind leading the blind it
            would be you...... now don't fall in any ditches.......
          • Judi Rhodes
            ... no methods, no nothing, no how. Only understanding which is already the case. ... G: there is nothing being *promoted* contrary to what you want to keep
            Message 5 of 25 , Apr 27, 2003
            • 0 Attachment
              > ****** Unlike yourself, I am not *promoting* anything, no way,
              no methods, no nothing, no how. Only understanding which is
              already the case.
              >
              > Seeking is one thing, understanding is quite another!
              >
              > Judi


              G: there is nothing being *promoted* contrary to what you want
              to keep attempting to allude to ..... what i speak of is what
              remains after ..... it is not a goal to be acheived......

              in confronting your self or your bull shit as you like to say that IS
              a *method*.....

              otherwise you are simply stuck in the same non-ending
              patterns....... or are you *Really* advocating being stuck in
              whatever crap you are in....?

              no you don't already *understand* anything because if you did
              you wouldn't be stuck in the first place.... and Knowing or
              understanding can ONLY come about once everything has been
              confronted and found to be false......

              Whether it is lifestyle, issues, or eventually the self identity upon
              which all these hang in the first place.......

              there is nowhere to be other than here, but there are differing
              qualities of being here..... one is here in freedom and that
              remains after Knowing the truth from the illusion and
              delusion...... another is caught in the mire of no way out and no
              way through ..... another is caught in simply the quagmire of
              complacency.........

              truly you can't be advocating complacency ? because that or
              depressive oppression is what most are stuck within and that is
              where their understanding lies ...... so to say that everyone has
              understanding already in place is really nonsense.......

              it takes a motion to look and see and to confront and surrender
              to break through the modes of illusion........ and that my dear is
              where mindful awareness and self enquiry come into place.....

              meditation is contemplation that comes from the naturally
              stilling mind....... when it is not a practice or is going on hand in
              hand with mindful awareness eventually it leads to the mind of
              quiescence ......


              ******* Didn't mean to disturb your stilled mind of quiescence honey, the nice fella will be along with some tea any minute.

              Sheesh! :-)

              Judi



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • G
              ... way, ... is ... want ... IS ... did ... been ... upon ... no ... is ... has ... surrender ... is ... place..... ... in ... of ... honey, the nice fella
              Message 6 of 25 , Apr 27, 2003
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Judi
                Rhodes" <judirhodes@z...> wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > > ****** Unlike yourself, I am not *promoting* anything, no
                way,
                > no methods, no nothing, no how. Only understanding which
                is
                > already the case.
                > >
                > > Seeking is one thing, understanding is quite another!
                > >
                > > Judi
                >
                >
                > G: there is nothing being *promoted* contrary to what you
                want
                > to keep attempting to allude to ..... what i speak of is what
                > remains after ..... it is not a goal to be acheived......
                >
                > in confronting your self or your bull shit as you like to say that
                IS
                > a *method*.....
                >
                > otherwise you are simply stuck in the same non-ending
                > patterns....... or are you *Really* advocating being stuck in
                > whatever crap you are in....?
                >
                > no you don't already *understand* anything because if you
                did
                > you wouldn't be stuck in the first place.... and Knowing or
                > understanding can ONLY come about once everything has
                been
                > confronted and found to be false......
                >
                > Whether it is lifestyle, issues, or eventually the self identity
                upon
                > which all these hang in the first place.......
                >
                > there is nowhere to be other than here, but there are differing
                > qualities of being here..... one is here in freedom and that
                > remains after Knowing the truth from the illusion and
                > delusion...... another is caught in the mire of no way out and
                no
                > way through ..... another is caught in simply the quagmire of
                > complacency.........
                >
                > truly you can't be advocating complacency ? because that or
                > depressive oppression is what most are stuck within and that
                is
                > where their understanding lies ...... so to say that everyone
                has
                > understanding already in place is really nonsense.......
                >
                > it takes a motion to look and see and to confront and
                surrender
                > to break through the modes of illusion........ and that my dear
                is
                > where mindful awareness and self enquiry come into
                place.....
                >
                > meditation is contemplation that comes from the naturally
                > stilling mind....... when it is not a practice or is going on hand
                in
                > hand with mindful awareness eventually it leads to the mind
                of
                > quiescence ......
                >
                >
                > ******* Didn't mean to disturb your stilled mind of quiescence
                honey, the nice fella will be along with some tea any minute.
                >
                > Sheesh! :-)
                >
                > Judi


                G: once again you can't speak to the truth that was being shared
                here so you attempt to deflect the attention away from the
                message and to make another judi-ism.....

                so may i suggest that the above post be read again in it's
                entirety..... and see what she must deflect from anyone
                seeing......

                once more any confronting is a method.... any seeing is a
                method...... and yes what Remains is the quiescent mind :
                Definition and Reality is : resting FREE from anxiety , emotion, or
                agitation........

                in other words it doesn't matter what you do or not do, it
                doesn't get disturbed..... the stillness that is spoken of is not
                moved by any action or inaction....... it is not clouded nor
                disturbed by any empty rising or falling phenomena but remains
                as clarity......

                so i will have my tea with honey .... and leave out the arsenic
                please .... you can serve it whenever you find you way here.......
              • Judi Rhodes
                G: once again you can t speak to the truth that was being shared here so you attempt to deflect the attention away from the message and to make another
                Message 7 of 25 , Apr 27, 2003
                • 0 Attachment
                  G: once again you can't speak to the truth that was being shared
                  here so you attempt to deflect the attention away from the
                  message and to make another judi-ism.....


                  ******** I try to stay away from "truth" as much as I can. But thanks anyway! :-)


                  so may i suggest that the above post be read again in it's
                  entirety..... and see what she must deflect from anyone
                  seeing......

                  once more any confronting is a method.... any seeing is a
                  method...... and yes what Remains is the quiescent mind :
                  Definition and Reality is : resting FREE from anxiety , emotion, or
                  agitation........


                  ********* OK. :-) Now where is that darn fella! :-)







                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • G
                  ... thanks anyway! :-) G: once more thankyou for giving me the opportunity to say read the full post at what is being deflected and not answered...... the
                  Message 8 of 25 , Apr 27, 2003
                  • 0 Attachment
                    --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Judi
                    Rhodes" <judirhodes@z...> wrote:

                    >
                    > ******** I try to stay away from "truth" as much as I can. But
                    thanks anyway! :-)


                    G: once more thankyou for giving me the opportunity to say read
                    the full post at what is being deflected and not answered......

                    the fact that you cannot comment coherently says something......

                    yes i can see that truth has no place within you...... thank you for
                    bringing at least that much clarity to you expounding........

                    i think that we can both agree on that .... you have no truth
                    within you ........

                    see referance post number 7115 on methods versus none,
                    which is confrontation or complacency........ judi advocates
                    complacency of doing nothing as you already understand it
                    all........
                  • satkartar7
                    ... this makes me want to buy a pet parakeet, name her Judi and teach her the sentence: I understand I understand LOL Karta
                    Message 9 of 25 , Apr 27, 2003
                    • 0 Attachment
                      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "judirhodes" <judirhodes@z...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > ****** Unlike yourself, I am not *promoting* anything, no way, no
                      > methods, no nothing, no how. Only understanding which is already the
                      > case.
                      > >
                      > > Seeking is one thing, understanding is quite another!
                      > >
                      > > Judi
                      > >
                      > ********* And surely I would be a fool to do otherwise.
                      >
                      > Let the blind lead the blind.
                      >
                      > Judi


                      this makes me want to buy a pet
                      parakeet, name her Judi and teach her
                      the sentence:

                      "I understand I understand"

                      LOL

                      Karta
                    • judirhodes
                      ... something...... ... for ... ***** You got that right! And unlike yourself, I have no interest in any. You do the math! God, you give me the creeps! Judi
                      Message 10 of 25 , Apr 27, 2003
                      • 0 Attachment
                        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "G"
                        <crystalkundalini@h...> wrote:
                        > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Judi
                        > Rhodes" <judirhodes@z...> wrote:
                        >
                        > >
                        > > ******** I try to stay away from "truth" as much as I can. But
                        > thanks anyway! :-)
                        >
                        >
                        > G: once more thankyou for giving me the opportunity to say read
                        > the full post at what is being deflected and not answered......
                        >
                        > the fact that you cannot comment coherently says
                        something......
                        >
                        > yes i can see that truth has no place within you...... thank you
                        for
                        > bringing at least that much clarity to you expounding........
                        >
                        > i think that we can both agree on that .... you have no truth
                        > within you ........

                        ***** You got that right! And unlike yourself, I have no interest in
                        any. You do the math!

                        God, you give me the creeps!

                        Judi
                      • devianandi
                        ... understanding of what?
                        Message 11 of 25 , Apr 27, 2003
                        • 0 Attachment
                          >
                          > Seeking is one thing, understanding is quite another!
                          >
                          > Judi

                          understanding of what?
                        • G
                          ... read ... G: that is very gratifying really...... thank you.... if you would rather have falsehood than truth then indeed i hope i do give you the
                          Message 12 of 25 , Apr 27, 2003
                          • 0 Attachment
                            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                            "judirhodes" <judirhodes@z...> wrote:
                            > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "G"
                            > <crystalkundalini@h...> wrote:
                            > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Judi
                            > > Rhodes" <judirhodes@z...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > >
                            > > > ******** I try to stay away from "truth" as much as I can. But
                            > > thanks anyway! :-)
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > G: once more thankyou for giving me the opportunity to say
                            read
                            > > the full post at what is being deflected and not answered......
                            > >
                            > > the fact that you cannot comment coherently says
                            > something......
                            > >
                            > > yes i can see that truth has no place within you...... thank you
                            > for
                            > > bringing at least that much clarity to you expounding........
                            > >
                            > > i think that we can both agree on that .... you have no truth
                            > > within you ........
                            >
                            > ***** You got that right! And unlike yourself, I have no interest in
                            > any. You do the math!
                            >
                            > God, you give me the creeps!
                            >
                            > Judi


                            G: that is very gratifying really...... thank you.... if you would
                            rather have falsehood than truth then indeed i hope i do give you
                            the creeps........

                            no i'm not interested in math any longer ... it is quite simple
                            really .... but you might like to speak with my mathematician
                            friend ..... Source is 0 .... the first projection is One which may
                            then be subdivided into the many .......

                            actually my now friend David Dewitt who just wrote a maths
                            paper that about 15 people in the world would understand was
                            actually quite interested in our discussion of the numerology of
                            God so to speak...... He could see that absolute logic of it .....
                          • Jason Fishman
                            ... Jason: yup the truth sucks (and not in a good way) Best to just let sleeping dogs lie. ... Jason: She may need a drool cup before long as well. I have a
                            Message 13 of 25 , Apr 27, 2003
                            • 0 Attachment
                              --- Judi Rhodes <judirhodes@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > G: once again you can't speak to the truth that was
                              > being shared
                              > here so you attempt to deflect the attention away
                              > from the
                              > message and to make another judi-ism.....
                              >
                              >
                              > ******** I try to stay away from "truth" as much as
                              > I can. But thanks anyway! :-)
                              >
                              Jason: yup the truth sucks (and not in a good way)
                              Best to just let sleeping dogs lie.

                              > so may i suggest that the above post be read again
                              > in it's
                              > entirety..... and see what she must deflect from
                              > anyone
                              > seeing......
                              >
                              > once more any confronting is a method.... any
                              > seeing is a
                              > method...... and yes what Remains is the
                              > quiescent mind :
                              > Definition and Reality is : resting FREE from
                              > anxiety , emotion, or
                              > agitation........
                              >
                              >
                              > ********* OK. :-) Now where is that darn fella!
                              > :-)

                              Jason: She may need a drool cup before long as well. I
                              have a place right next to me in ward 23, nice picture
                              window overlooking the garden.

                              Peace, love and sane-insanity

                              __________________________________
                              Do you Yahoo!?
                              The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
                              http://search.yahoo.com
                            • Jason Fishman
                              ... Jason: Good one! Would you name one for me too? Always wanted to be a parakeet :) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search -
                              Message 14 of 25 , Apr 27, 2003
                              • 0 Attachment
                                --- satkartar7 <mi_nok@...> wrote:
                                > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                                > "judirhodes" <judirhodes@z...> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > ****** Unlike yourself, I am not *promoting*
                                > anything, no way, no
                                > > methods, no nothing, no how. Only understanding
                                > which is already the
                                > > case.
                                > > >
                                > > > Seeking is one thing, understanding is quite
                                > another!
                                > > >
                                > > > Judi
                                > > >
                                > > ********* And surely I would be a fool to do
                                > otherwise.
                                > >
                                > > Let the blind lead the blind.
                                > >
                                > > Judi
                                >
                                >
                                > this makes me want to buy a pet
                                > parakeet, name her Judi and teach her
                                > the sentence:
                                >
                                > "I understand I understand"
                                >
                                > LOL
                                >
                                > Karta

                                Jason: Good one! Would you name one for me too? Always
                                wanted to be a parakeet :)

                                __________________________________
                                Do you Yahoo!?
                                The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
                                http://search.yahoo.com
                              • devianandi
                                i m crying, it s all so sad
                                Message 15 of 25 , Apr 27, 2003
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  i'm crying, it's all so sad
                                • Melody
                                  ... Hell, yes, Ganga. You can, and have! At least a thousand times. If you think suggesting this or that another thousand times will affect this campaign
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Apr 27, 2003
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    > so may i suggest



                                    Hell, yes, Ganga. You can, and have!
                                    At least a thousand times.

                                    If you think suggesting this or that

                                    another thousand times will
                                    affect this campaign against
                                    you, then, by all means,

                                    knock yourself out.

                                    Or better yet, someone knock me out
                                    instead. :-)
                                  • judirhodes
                                    ... ******* Me too! :-) LOL Judi
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Apr 27, 2003
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, devianandi
                                      <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                                      > i'm crying, it's all so sad

                                      ******* Me too! :-)

                                      LOL

                                      Judi
                                    • Jason Fishman
                                      ... Jason: Another one thats just too funny! And I though I was the only one (not really, but people always say I thought I was the only one ) that thought
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Apr 27, 2003
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        --- Melody <melodyande@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > > so may i suggest
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Hell, yes, Ganga. You can, and have!
                                        > At least a thousand times.
                                        >
                                        > If you think suggesting this or that
                                        >
                                        > another thousand times will
                                        > affect this campaign against
                                        > you, then, by all means,
                                        >
                                        > knock yourself out.
                                        >
                                        > Or better yet, someone knock me out
                                        > instead. :-)

                                        Jason: Another one thats just too funny! And I though
                                        I was the only one (not really, but people always say
                                        "I thought I was the only one") that thought repeation
                                        wasn't the best way to convey something. My, My...

                                        Peace and Love, the only words worth repeating.


                                        __________________________________
                                        Do you Yahoo!?
                                        The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
                                        http://search.yahoo.com
                                      • Judi Rhodes
                                        ... Jason: She may need a drool cup before long as well. I have a place right next to me in ward 23, nice picture window overlooking the garden. Peace, love
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Apr 27, 2003
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > ********* OK. :-) Now where is that darn fella!
                                          > :-)

                                          Jason: She may need a drool cup before long as well. I
                                          have a place right next to me in ward 23, nice picture
                                          window overlooking the garden.

                                          Peace, love and sane-insanity

                                          ****** Reminds of that joke where they were inspecting this psychiatric hospital and going from room to room checking on the patients progress. And in each room, each patient told of how they were getting better and going to be released soon, they had learned basket weaving, etc. etc. :-) And they get to this one room with this guy with his pants down and there's nutshells all over the floor. And they ask him how he's doing, and he said, I'm never gonna leave here, can't you see I'm fuckin nuts! :-) LOL

                                          Judi



                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • satkartar7
                                          ... Let the blind lead the blind. ... here you go hun he says: judi is my guru judi is my guru Karta
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Apr 27, 2003
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Jason Fishman <munkiman4u@y...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > ****** Unlike yourself, I am not *promoting*
                                            >anything, no way, no
                                            > methods, no nothing, no how. Only understanding
                                            > which is already the case.
                                            > > > >
                                            > Seeking is one thing, understanding is quite another!

                                            > Judi

                                            > ********* And surely I would be a fool to do otherwise.

                                            Let the blind lead the blind.


                                            > > Karta: this makes me want to buy a pet
                                            > > parakeet, name her Judi and teach her
                                            > > the sentence:
                                            > >
                                            > > "I understand I understand"
                                            > >
                                            > > LOL
                                            > >
                                            >
                                            > Jason: Good one! Would you name one for me too? Always
                                            > wanted to be a parakeet :)
                                            >

                                            here you go hun' he says: "judi
                                            is my guru judi is my guru"

                                            <http://www.petparrot.com/Harlequin.htm>

                                            Karta
                                          • Jason Fishman
                                            ... Awwww he s cute, just like me! Thanks Karta, that was sweet of you! Peace and Love __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Apr 27, 2003
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              --- satkartar7 <mi_nok@...> wrote:
                                              > Jason Fishman <munkiman4u@y...> wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > ****** Unlike yourself, I am not *promoting*
                                              > >anything, no way, no
                                              > > methods, no nothing, no how. Only understanding
                                              > > which is already the case.
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > Seeking is one thing, understanding is quite
                                              > another!
                                              >
                                              > > Judi
                                              >
                                              > > ********* And surely I would be a fool to do
                                              > otherwise.
                                              >
                                              > Let the blind lead the blind.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > > > Karta: this makes me want to buy a pet
                                              > > > parakeet, name her Judi and teach her
                                              > > > the sentence:
                                              > > >
                                              > > > "I understand I understand"
                                              > > >
                                              > > > LOL
                                              > > >
                                              > >
                                              > > Jason: Good one! Would you name one for me too?
                                              > Always
                                              > > wanted to be a parakeet :)
                                              > >
                                              >
                                              > here you go hun' he says: "judi
                                              > is my guru judi is my guru"
                                              >
                                              > <http://www.petparrot.com/Harlequin.htm>
                                              >
                                              > Karta


                                              Awwww he's cute, just like me! Thanks Karta, that was
                                              sweet of you!

                                              Peace and Love


                                              __________________________________
                                              Do you Yahoo!?
                                              The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
                                              http://search.yahoo.com
                                            • satkartar7
                                              ... Jason, the parrot changes his mind, now he says: I love I love you Freyja peace-love, Karta
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Apr 27, 2003
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                > Jason: Good one! Would you name one for me too? Always
                                                > wanted to be a parakeet :)
                                                >
                                                > >
                                                > > here you go hun' he says: "judi
                                                > > is my guru judi is my guru"
                                                > >
                                                > > <http://www.petparrot.com/Harlequin.htm>
                                                > >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Awwww he's cute, just like me! Thanks Karta, that was
                                                > sweet of you!


                                                Jason, the parrot changes his mind,
                                                now he says: "I love I love you Freyja"

                                                peace-love, Karta

                                                >
                                                > Peace and Love
                                                >
                                                >
                                              • Jason Fishman
                                                ... Those silly parrots... just can t seem to make up their minds, sounds purrrfect (uh-oh a cat is near) gotta fly! Peace and Love
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Apr 27, 2003
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  --- satkartar7 <mi_nok@...> wrote:
                                                  > > Jason: Good one! Would you name one for me too?
                                                  > Always
                                                  > > wanted to be a parakeet :)
                                                  > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > here you go hun' he says: "judi
                                                  > > > is my guru judi is my guru"
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > <http://www.petparrot.com/Harlequin.htm>
                                                  > > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Awwww he's cute, just like me! Thanks Karta, that
                                                  > was
                                                  > > sweet of you!
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > Jason, the parrot changes his mind,
                                                  > now he says: "I love I love you Freyja"
                                                  >
                                                  > peace-love, Karta

                                                  Those silly parrots... just can't seem to make up
                                                  their minds, sounds purrrfect (uh-oh a cat is near)
                                                  gotta fly!

                                                  Peace and Love

                                                  __________________________________
                                                  Do you Yahoo!?
                                                  The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
                                                  http://search.yahoo.com
                                                • devianandi
                                                  ... bottom, ... dancer ... dismembers,
                                                  Message 24 of 25 , Apr 27, 2003
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    > has a lengthy entry for "Mast", reproduced below. At the very
                                                    bottom,
                                                    > it has an entry which seems to indicate that the famous ballet
                                                    dancer
                                                    > Nijinsky (and Vaslav was his first name) is a mast or 'ghous'. A
                                                    > ghous or Ghaus is an ecstatic whose body falls in pieces,
                                                    dismembers,
                                                    > in praise of God, and then miraculously re-forms when in ordinary
                                                    > consciousness
                                                  • devianandi
                                                    the highest reason for meditation is to realize ATMAN We find a clear exposition of the doctrine of the Atman and the practical path leading to it in the
                                                    Message 25 of 25 , Apr 27, 2003
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      the highest reason for meditation is to realize ATMAN

                                                      We find a clear exposition of the doctrine of the Atman and the
                                                      practical path leading to it in the dialogue between the sage
                                                      Prajaapathi and Indra in the Chaandogya Upanishad. Indra, the king of
                                                      Gods and Virochana, the king of demons both approached Prajaapathi to
                                                      learn the doctrine of the Self. Prajaapathi first teaches them that
                                                      the Self is unborn, uncreated, eternal, cannot be destroyed and
                                                      beyond suffering. Then he identifies the Self with the body. While
                                                      Virochana returns home satisfied, Indra is not convinced. How can the
                                                      immortal Self be the body, which is prone to change, decay and
                                                      destruction? So he approaches Prajaapathi again and tells him of his
                                                      confusion. Prajaapathi next identifies the Self with the subject of
                                                      the dream state. Indra is again not convinced. How could the subject
                                                      of the dream state be the eternal Self? Though devoid of defects of
                                                      the body, it still experiences emotions in dreams - it is happy, sad,
                                                      terrified, conscious of pain etc The Self being eternal cannot be
                                                      subject to such limitations. So again he goes back to Prajaapathi and
                                                      tells him his doubts. Prajaapathi now tells him that the enjoyer of
                                                      the deep sleep state is the Self. But Indra is unconvinced by this
                                                      too, for in deep sleep, there's no conscious or awareness. We neither
                                                      feel anything, nor know anything, nor will anything. So what good is
                                                      there in such a state?

                                                      When he approaches Prajaapathi again, the sage well pleased with his
                                                      discriminatory powers says : Dear Indra! The body and the subject of
                                                      the dream state are not the Self though they exist for the Self. The
                                                      Self is not an abstract principle of the deep sleep state too. Yet it
                                                      is something, which persists through these three states or else we
                                                      would not have the unity of experience through the three states. The
                                                      body, the senses, the mind, the presentation continuum, the
                                                      consciousness - are all mere instruments and objects of the Self.
                                                      Though the Self is the ground for the waking, dream and deep sleep
                                                      states, it transcends them all. The Self is immortal, self-luminous
                                                      and self-proved. It is the ultimate subject, which can never become
                                                      an object and is necessarily presupposed by all knowledge. It is
                                                      satchitAnanda (sat - existence, chit - knowledge, Ananda - bliss).

                                                      But if we are in truth the eternal Atman, why do we not know it?

                                                      The Upanishads say that it is due to our ignorance (avidya) that
                                                      we're not aware of the true nature of ourselves. When ignorance is
                                                      removed with right knowledge, the Self shines forth in its true
                                                      nature. In fact, acquisition of spiritual knowledge is the supreme
                                                      purpose of human existence. Human beings are superior to other forms
                                                      of life only because they can sufficiently discriminate between the
                                                      real and the unreal, between the ephemeral and the eternal, between
                                                      darkness and light. A man who does not strive to make good of this
                                                      opportunity and remains lost in materialism has, as if, committed
                                                      suicide. The 3rd verse of Ishavasya Upanishad therefore declares:


                                                      "The immutable soul is the real nature of man, and not his mortal
                                                      frame.
                                                      Because the soul endures from one life to the next,
                                                      whereas the body changes every moment and perishes with death.
                                                      But the materialistic people, enveloped with ignorance, vanity or
                                                      pride,
                                                      deny the very existence of the soul.
                                                      They say- 'Only that exists which can be perceived with the senses.
                                                      There is nothing beyond, there is no yonder world after death.
                                                      Verily, man is but an agglomeration of the elements,
                                                      born of the lust of his parents.
                                                      We are born with our physical birth, and cease to exist after our
                                                      death.
                                                      Indeed, there is no connection between actions and their fruits.
                                                      There no vice or virtue. So eat, drink and be merry.'
                                                      Denying their own true essence,
                                                      these deluded men have killed their own souls in this very life."
                                                      Right knowledge is not mere bookish knowledge. In fact the Upanishads
                                                      equate even the sacred Veda with lower knowledge, while knowledge of
                                                      the Self (Atmajnaanam) is the highest knowledge. This knowledge
                                                      sought is more intuitive than intellectual. It is the knowledge of
                                                      the subject, which can never be known like an object. Right knowledge
                                                      is obtained with the practice of faith, purity, introversion and
                                                      meditation. Two ways of meditation are suggested - meditation on the
                                                      mystic syllable "OM" and meditation on the heart center.
                                                      Recourse to Spirituality does not mean that one can forget his
                                                      worldly duties. The Upanishads stress again and again that 'faith
                                                      without works is dead." As an example, quote the 2nd verse of the
                                                      Ishavasya Upanishad:

                                                      "Seek not the Truth by abandoning this world
                                                      Or by renouncing all your bounden duties.
                                                      This is indeed not the path of salvation.
                                                      Rather, desire ye to live a full life of a hundred years,
                                                      Actively engaged in the selfless perfromance
                                                      of your duties and enjoined actions at all times.
                                                      Verily, this is the only way enjoined for man's salvation,
                                                      And not the opposite.
                                                      All actions bear fruit- good or bad.
                                                      And these fruits taint his soul, causing him to be reborn!
                                                      But the fruits of actions- good or otherwise, don't taint that wise
                                                      man,
                                                      who performs his duties selflessly, as an offering to God,
                                                      Just as a lotus leaf is not tainted by water, even though touching it.
                                                      But he, who through ignorance, shirks away from his duties,
                                                      Merely deludes himself by thinking- 'I am performing any action!'
                                                      Aye! no man can desist from action for even a single moment."
                                                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.