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Judi on GuruRatings and an Email question

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  • medit8ionsociety
    There was just a post on the GuruRatings group asking if Judi is a teacher and Enlightened. The universe is asking to discuss this there, and that is the kind
    Message 1 of 27 , Apr 26, 2003
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      There was just a post on the GuruRatings group asking if Judi is a
      teacher and Enlightened. The universe is asking to discuss this there,
      and that is the kind of thing that GuruRatings was designed to deal
      with. So, go with the flow and take that discussion there, and let's
      share things about meditation here. For instance, this is one of the
      many emails the Meditation Society received today (and get every day),
      that would be very appropriate to discuss here:

      Hi,

      I am an adult who has been diagnosed with adult ADHD (attention
      deficient hyperactivity disorder) and I've read that certain types of
      meditation have been used to increase brain activity in the frontal
      lobe. This is the area that neural activity is stimulated by the use
      of drugs such as Ritalin. Unfortunatley I don't believe in drugs, so I
      want an alternative. Hopefully you know of any type of meditation
      that specifically targets this area of the brain.

      If you know of a link or a book etc that would help me I'd greatly
      appreciate it.

      Thanks,
      B

      I hope from this example that everyone will start appreciating the
      true opportunity to help people this site has the potential to be. And
      all we have to do is make it user friendly to those who seek
      meditation knowledge. As is so often true, you can gain from losing.
      All we have to do is lose the cat-fighting, name calling, etc., and
      start sharing concepts, techniques, and experiences of meditation.

      Peace and blessings,
      Bob

      PS: The question is "real", and I'm sure your input would be welcomed.
    • Jason Fishman
      My oldest was diagnosed with adhd. There is quite a few books on the subject. Something to concider for you is to ask of yourself whats
      Message 2 of 27 , Apr 27, 2003
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        <judi guru? snipped>

        My oldest was diagnosed with adhd. There is quite a
        few books on the subject. Something to concider for
        you is to ask of yourself whats the rush? This may not
        sounds like it would help since it seems to simple,
        yet much like many diagnosis, adhd is a mental
        "disorder" that really isn't a problem when thought of
        as a solution. If you really would like a book, doing
        a barnes and noble online search will give you quite a
        few to read, most cover the topic quite nicely. There
        was a time when I read a great number of them, they
        all seemed to say the same thing, "your adhd, we
        really don't know why and is it really a problem".
        They don't say this in so many words, but that is the
        jist I got when I put down another book and say oh
        great! Anyway asking the question is a great
        meditation in awareness!!!

        I have also been diagnosed with the same, like child
        like father, yet I would have to say that asking
        myself this question makes me take a deeper look into
        my short attention span and gives me a point of
        reference for my hyperactivity. Honestly, it's
        something that becomes an easy plus for many that
        suffer this disorder. Find the benifits and work with
        those. Technology has yet to find a way to cure the
        blind, yet most manage quite well!

        Good luck,

        Peace and Love

        > Hi,
        >
        > I am an adult who has been diagnosed with adult ADHD
        > (attention
        > deficient hyperactivity disorder) and I've read that
        > certain types of
        > meditation have been used to increase brain activity
        > in the frontal
        > lobe. This is the area that neural activity is
        > stimulated by the use
        > of drugs such as Ritalin. Unfortunatley I don't
        > believe in drugs, so I
        > want an alternative. Hopefully you know of any type
        > of meditation
        > that specifically targets this area of the brain.
        >
        > If you know of a link or a book etc that would help
        > me I'd greatly
        > appreciate it.
        >
        > Thanks,
        > B
        >
        > I hope from this example that everyone will start
        > appreciating the
        > true opportunity to help people this site has the
        > potential to be. And
        > all we have to do is make it user friendly to those
        > who seek
        > meditation knowledge. As is so often true, you can
        > gain from losing.
        > All we have to do is lose the cat-fighting, name
        > calling, etc., and
        > start sharing concepts, techniques, and experiences
        > of meditation.
        >
        > Peace and blessings,
        > Bob
        >
        > PS: The question is "real", and I'm sure your input
        > would be welcomed.
        >
        >


        __________________________________
        Do you Yahoo!?
        The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
        http://search.yahoo.com
      • Nina
        ... welcomed. Bob, I hope with you that the loss will happen. Have you considered moderating the chronic partakers in said nonsense? They are apparently unable
        Message 3 of 27 , Apr 27, 2003
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          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
          <no_reply@y...> wrote:
          > For instance, this is one of the
          > many emails the Meditation Society received today (and get every
          > day), that would be very appropriate to discuss here:
          >
          > Hi,
          >
          > I am an adult who has been diagnosed with adult ADHD (attention
          > deficient hyperactivity disorder) and I've read that certain types
          > of meditation have been used to increase brain activity in the
          > frontal lobe. This is the area that neural activity is stimulated
          > by the use of drugs such as Ritalin. Unfortunatley I don't believe
          > in drugs, so I want an alternative. Hopefully you know of any type
          > of meditation that specifically targets this area of the brain.
          >
          > If you know of a link or a book etc that would help me I'd greatly
          > appreciate it.
          >
          > Thanks,
          > B
          >
          > I hope from this example that everyone will start appreciating the
          > true opportunity to help people this site has the potential to be.
          > And all we have to do is make it user friendly to those who seek
          > meditation knowledge. As is so often true, you can gain from losing.
          > All we have to do is lose the cat-fighting, name calling, etc., and
          > start sharing concepts, techniques, and experiences of meditation.
          >
          > Peace and blessings,
          > Bob
          >
          > PS: The question is "real", and I'm sure your input would be
          welcomed.

          Bob, I hope with you that the loss will happen. Have you considered
          moderating the chronic partakers in said nonsense? They are
          apparently unable to moderate themselves. More work for you, perhaps,
          but well worth it if you wish to return this board to a place where
          support and exchange can happen.

          There is a board called Namaste Yoga Circle which demonstrates very
          well what can happen when strict lines of topicality and respect are
          enforced. The moderator has set out to maintain a "supportive homey
          feel" to the list, which is an interesting comparison to rampant
          discharge veiled as "helpful criticism of one's blindness". The
          moderator of that list also doesn't cater to people asserting
          themselves as over-teachers of others, particularly others who post
          articles with no discussion, those who parade their services /
          achievements, and those who heckle others practices. The model that
          everyone can learn from everyone else is admirably ingrained. That
          list could well serve as a model for this one. I have never seen
          anyone attacked for expressing their particular form of sadhana and I
          have often seen nearly a dozen posts and ongoing discussion arising
          from a single request for help or input. That NYC also pays a lot of
          attention to the nuts and bolts of the practices (varied though they
          may be) is a tribute to the usefulness of that list.

          By the way, I am very much interested in hearing what folks have to
          say in response to that very good email question. You might have that
          person post the question to Namaste Yoga Circle, as there are several
          folks there who combine psychiatry/yoga as their work or who have
          adult ADHD.

          Nina
        • Nina
          ... Jason, Have you experimented personally with different kinds of meditation? Have you found one to be more helpful than others? What do you do to work with
          Message 4 of 27 , Apr 27, 2003
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            > I have also been diagnosed with the same, like child
            > like father, yet I would have to say that asking
            > myself this question makes me take a deeper look into
            > my short attention span and gives me a point of
            > reference for my hyperactivity. Honestly, it's
            > something that becomes an easy plus for many that
            > suffer this disorder. Find the benifits and work with
            > those. Technology has yet to find a way to cure the
            > blind, yet most manage quite well!

            Jason,

            Have you experimented personally with different kinds of meditation?
            Have you found one to be more helpful than others? What do you do to
            work with your ADHD, if anything? How do you figure it in your view
            of self?

            Nina
          • Nina
            While this article doesn t deal with meditation specifically, I thought it might be helpful: http://www.yogajournal.com/health/597_1.cfm Nina
            Message 5 of 27 , Apr 27, 2003
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              While this article doesn't deal with meditation specifically, I
              thought it might be helpful:

              http://www.yogajournal.com/health/597_1.cfm

              Nina
            • diana_53231
              ... meditation? ... to ... There exists a body of thought which views the set of behaviours diagnosed as ADHD as, in fact, a resistance to the dopamine
              Message 6 of 27 , Apr 27, 2003
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                --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Nina"
                <murrkis@y...> wrote:
                > > I have also been diagnosed with the same, like child
                > > like father, yet I would have to say that asking
                > > myself this question makes me take a deeper look into
                > > my short attention span and gives me a point of
                > > reference for my hyperactivity. Honestly, it's
                > > something that becomes an easy plus for many that
                > > suffer this disorder. Find the benifits and work with
                > > those. Technology has yet to find a way to cure the
                > > blind, yet most manage quite well!
                >
                > Jason,
                >
                > Have you experimented personally with different kinds of
                meditation?
                > Have you found one to be more helpful than others? What do you do
                to
                > work with your ADHD, if anything? How do you figure it in your view
                > of self?
                >
                > Nina

                There exists a body of thought which views the set of
                behaviours 'diagnosed' as ADHD as, in fact, a resistance to the
                dopamine addiction which obtains in the non-ADHD population.

                http://tinyurl.com/af72

                d
              • G
                ... is a teacher and Enlightened. The universe is asking to discuss this there, and that is the kind of thing that GuruRatings was designed to deal with. So,
                Message 7 of 27 , Apr 27, 2003
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                  --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                  medit8ionsociety <no_reply@y...> wrote:


                  > There was just a post on the GuruRatings group asking if Judi
                  is a teacher and Enlightened. The universe is asking to discuss
                  this there, and that is the kind of thing that GuruRatings was
                  designed to deal with. So, go with the flow and take that
                  discussion there, and let's share things about meditation here.
                  For instance, this is one of the many emails the Meditation
                  Society received today (and get every day), that would be very
                  appropriate to discuss here:
                  >
                  > Hi,
                  >
                  > I am an adult who has been diagnosed with adult ADHD
                  (attention deficient hyperactivity disorder) and I've read that
                  certain types of meditation have been used to increase brain
                  activity in the frontal lobe. This is the area that neural activity is
                  stimulated by the use of drugs such as Ritalin. Unfortunatley I
                  don't believe in drugs, so I want an alternative. Hopefully you
                  know of any type of meditation that specifically targets this area
                  of the brain.
                  >
                  > If you know of a link or a book etc that would help me I'd greatly
                  > appreciate it.
                  >
                  > Thanks,
                  > B
                  >
                  > I hope from this example that everyone will start appreciating
                  the true opportunity to help people this site has the potential to
                  be. And all we have to do is make it user friendly to those who
                  seek meditation knowledge. As is so often true, you can gain
                  from losing.
                  > All we have to do is lose the cat-fighting, name calling, etc., and
                  > start sharing concepts, techniques, and experiences of
                  meditation.
                  >
                  > Peace and blessings,
                  > Bob
                  >
                  > PS: The question is "real", and I'm sure your input would be
                  welcomed.


                  G: i would not advise meditation at this point..... but would say
                  to begin first with relaxed breathing...... this will help to
                  center, stabalize, release, relax, and focus...... once
                  this is established then you can move forward into a
                  one pointed focus ( mindful awareness) and from there
                  into a meditational quietude .......

                  relaxed breathing is not any attempt to increase the breath...
                  but to allow it to naturally slow and drop from the higher
                  chest to deep in the diaphram...... if entered into
                  correctly it can in fact dismantle a lot of the hyper-tension....
                  there are some other things that would help but this
                  would really require a one to one exchange .....

                  shanti om
                • texasbg2000
                  ... view ... Interesting article Diana. I clipped a few things. @@@ Their cognitively superior state is demonstrable by results in engineering, but not in
                  Message 8 of 27 , Apr 27, 2003
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                    --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "diana_53231"
                    <diana_53231@y...> wrote:
                    > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Nina"
                    > <murrkis@y...> wrote:
                    > > > I have also been diagnosed with the same, like child
                    > > > like father, yet I would have to say that asking
                    > > > myself this question makes me take a deeper look into
                    > > > my short attention span and gives me a point of
                    > > > reference for my hyperactivity. Honestly, it's
                    > > > something that becomes an easy plus for many that
                    > > > suffer this disorder. Find the benifits and work with
                    > > > those. Technology has yet to find a way to cure the
                    > > > blind, yet most manage quite well!
                    > >
                    > > Jason,
                    > >
                    > > Have you experimented personally with different kinds of
                    > meditation?
                    > > Have you found one to be more helpful than others? What do you do
                    > to
                    > > work with your ADHD, if anything? How do you figure it in your
                    view
                    > > of self?
                    > >
                    > > Nina
                    >
                    > There exists a body of thought which views the set of
                    > behaviours 'diagnosed' as ADHD as, in fact, a resistance to the
                    > dopamine addiction which obtains in the non-ADHD population.
                    >
                    > http://tinyurl.com/af72
                    >
                    > d

                    Interesting article Diana. I clipped a few things.

                    @@@ Their cognitively superior state is demonstrable by results in
                    engineering, but not in arbitrary situations where engaging in
                    repetitive behaviours and nothing else is by definition, an inherent
                    good. The person is isolated socially and linguistically, and subject
                    to bullying by people who are trapped in addictive behaviour, but
                    think they have mastery of the situation.

                    Clinical Consequences

                    The ADHD child is neither deficient nor disordered. He (or sometimes
                    she) is actually more aware than those around him. When faced with
                    100 simple arithmetic examples he looks at what he is doing during
                    the first few, grasps the principle of the algorithm, and can then
                    handle the general case. This comprehension is then a part of him for
                    life. He can see no possible benefit in doing another 90 examples,
                    and repeating behaviours does not seem to be an inherent good. He
                    therefore looks out of the window, where something interesting is
                    happening. His teacher already resents him because of his non-
                    participation in the dopamine economy - he does not co-ritual fix
                    like the "good" children do. --- In fact, the zombie-like robotism
                    the teacher calls "attention" is nothing like the true concentration
                    the teacher calls "hyperfocusing". Woe betide the child if he
                    expresses his feelings, since the teacher will then claim that he
                    refuses to "learn", and often eggs on the "good" children to perform
                    contempt/threat displays. The more effort the child makes, the worse
                    the response from teacher. Eventually the distorted perception of the
                    highly ritualised teacher is endorsed by highly ritualised local
                    government officials and healthcare workers, the barrage of hostility
                    becomes quite unbearable for the child, and he develops emotional
                    disturbance. This contrasts with the unaware self-satisfied smugness
                    of others, and he is described as unable to "keep calm". ---

                    For deep thinkers, particularly very young ones already in distress,
                    who have not been taught to use their powerful minds correctly,
                    stimulant drugs are a very bad idea. They cause the surface awareness
                    to race, and block contemplation.

                    Bobby G.
                  • texasbg2000
                    ... of ... use ... so I ... , ... welcomed. Hi Bob: I don t think targeting the frontal lobe is the answer. That is where the activity is. As far as I know
                    Message 9 of 27 , Apr 27, 2003
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                      > that would be very appropriate to discuss here:
                      >
                      > Hi,
                      >
                      > I am an adult who has been diagnosed with adult ADHD (attention
                      > deficient hyperactivity disorder) and I've read that certain types
                      of
                      > meditation have been used to increase brain activity in the frontal
                      > lobe. This is the area that neural activity is stimulated by the
                      use
                      > of drugs such as Ritalin. Unfortunatley I don't believe in drugs,
                      so I
                      > want an alternative. Hopefully you know of any type of meditation
                      > that specifically targets this area of the brain.
                      >
                      > If you know of a link or a book etc that would help me I'd greatly
                      > appreciate it.
                      >
                      > Thanks,
                      > B
                      ,
                      > Bob
                      >
                      > PS: The question is "real", and I'm sure your input would be
                      welcomed.

                      Hi Bob:
                      I don't think targeting the frontal lobe is the answer. That is
                      where the activity is.
                      As far as I know any meditation will reduce that activity.
                      Traditionally that is why meditation is worthwhile.
                      A breath control mantra where the sounds are coordinated with the
                      inhalation and exhalation like "om mani padma hum" should be a good
                      start.
                      After a few weeks, a little breath retention on the in breath will
                      slow the heartbeat very effectively. (It is used in Tantra Yoga to
                      change the orgasm buildup rhythm of the heart so it should handle a
                      little extra mentation in anyone willing to focus.)

                      The real 'coup de grace' would be full retention of in breath and
                      out. Slowing the breath this way will reduce oxygen to the brain.
                      Counting the breaths to ten or twelve as a set and then maintaining a
                      count of the sets up to ten should produce a little calm in anyone's
                      life.

                      Or if your friend is Aesthetically minded, practice complete
                      friendliness to everyone, every idea, and oneself.

                      Love
                      Bobby G.
                    • texasbg2000
                      By TENZIN GYATSO (Tenzin Gyatso is the 14th Dalai Lama.) from the NY Times.com DHARAMSALA, India These are times when destructive emotions like anger, fear and
                      Message 10 of 27 , Apr 27, 2003
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                        By TENZIN GYATSO (Tenzin Gyatso is the 14th Dalai
                        Lama.)
                        from the NY Times.com

                        DHARAMSALA, India
                        These are times when destructive emotions like anger, fear
                        and hatred are giving rise to devastating problems
                        throughout the world. While the daily news offers grim
                        reminders of the destructive power of such emotions, the
                        question we must ask is this: What can we do, person by
                        person, to overcome them?

                        Of course such disturbing emotions have always been part of
                        the human condition. Some - those who tend to believe
                        nothing will "cure" our impulses to hate or oppress one
                        another - might say that this is simply the price of being
                        human. But this view can create apathy in the face of
                        destructive emotions, leading us to conclude that
                        destructiveness is beyond our control.

                        I believe that there are practical ways for us as
                        individuals to curb our dangerous impulses - impulses that
                        collectively can lead to war and mass violence. As evidence
                        I have not only my spiritual practice and the understanding
                        of human existence based on Buddhist teachings, but now
                        also the work of scientists.

                        For the last 15 years I have engaged in a series of
                        conversations with Western scientists. We have exchanged
                        views on topics ranging from quantum physics and cosmology
                        to compassion and destructive emotions. I have found that
                        while scientific findings offer a deeper understanding of
                        such fields as cosmology, it seems that Buddhist
                        explanations - particularly in the cognitive, biological
                        and brain sciences - can sometimes give Western-trained
                        scientists a new way to look at their own fields.

                        It may seem odd that a religious leader is so involved with
                        science, but Buddhist teachings stress the importance of
                        understanding reality, and so we should pay attention to
                        what scientists have learned about our world through
                        experimentation and measurement.

                        Similarly, Buddhists have a 2,500-year history of
                        investigating the workings of the mind. Over the
                        millenniums, many practitioners have carried out what we
                        might call "experiments" in how to overcome our tendencies
                        toward destructive emotions.

                        I have been encouraging scientists to examine advanced
                        Tibetan spiritual practitioners, to see what benefits these
                        practices might have for others, outside the religious
                        context. The goal here is to increase our understanding of
                        the world of the mind, of consciousness, and of our
                        emotions.

                        It is for this reason that I visited the neuroscience
                        laboratory of Dr. Richard Davidson at the University of
                        Wisconsin. Using imaging devices that show what occurs in
                        the brain during meditation, Dr. Davidson has been able to
                        study the effects of Buddhist practices for cultivating
                        compassion, equanimity or mindfulness. For centuries
                        Buddhists have believed that pursuing such practices seems
                        to make people calmer, happier and more loving. At the same
                        time they are less and less prone to destructive emotions.

                        According to Dr. Davidson, there is now science to
                        underscore this belief. Dr. Davidson tells me that the
                        emergence of positive emotions may be due to this:
                        Mindfulness meditation strengthens the neurological
                        circuits that calm a part of the brain that acts as a
                        trigger for fear and anger. This raises the possibility
                        that we have a way to create a kind of buffer between the
                        brain's violent impulses and our actions.

                        Experiments have already been carried out that show some
                        practitioners can achieve a state of inner peace, even when
                        facing extremely disturbing circumstances. Dr. Paul Ekman
                        of the University of California at San Francisco told me
                        that jarring noises (one as loud as a gunshot) failed to
                        startle the Buddhist monk he was testing. Dr. Ekman said he
                        had never seen anyone stay so calm in the presence of such
                        a disturbance.

                        Another monk, the abbot of one of our monasteries in India,
                        was tested by Dr. Davidson using electroencephalographs to
                        measure brain waves. According to Dr. Davidson, the abbot
                        had the highest amount of activity in the brain centers
                        associated with positive emotions that had ever been
                        measured by his laboratory.

                        Of course, the benefits of these practices are not just for
                        monks who spend months at a time in meditation retreat. Dr.
                        Davidson told me about his research with people working in
                        highly stressful jobs. These people - non-Buddhists - were
                        taught mindfulness, a state of alertness in which the mind
                        does not get caught up in thoughts or sensations, but lets
                        them come and go, much like watching a river flow by. After
                        eight weeks, Dr. Davidson found that in these people, the
                        parts of their brains that help to form positive emotions
                        became increasingly active.

                        The implications of all this are clear: the world today
                        needs citizens and leaders who can work toward ensuring
                        stability and engage in dialogue with the "enemy" - no
                        matter what kind of aggression or assault they may have
                        endured.

                        It's worth noting that these methods are not just useful,
                        but inexpensive. You don't need a drug or an injection. You
                        don't have to become a Buddhist, or adopt any particular
                        religious faith. Everybody has the potential to lead a
                        peaceful, meaningful life. We must explore as far as we can
                        how that can be brought about.

                        I try to put these methods into effect in my own life. When
                        I hear bad news, especially the tragic stories I often hear
                        from my fellow Tibetans, naturally my own response is
                        sadness. However, by placing it in context, I find I can
                        cope reasonably well. And feelings of helpless anger, which
                        simply poison the mind and embitter the heart, seldom
                        arise, even following the worst news.

                        But reflection shows that in our lives much of our
                        suffering is caused not by external causes but by such
                        internal events as the arising of disturbing emotions. The
                        best antidote to this disruption is enhancing our ability
                        to handle these emotions.

                        If humanity is to survive, happiness and inner balance are
                        crucial. Otherwise the lives of our children and their
                        children are more likely to be unhappy, desperate and
                        short. Material development certainly contributes to
                        happiness - to some extent - and a comfortable way of life.
                        But this is not sufficient. To achieve a deeper level of
                        happiness we cannot neglect our inner development.

                        The calamity of 9/11 demonstrated that modern technology
                        and human intelligence guided by hatred can lead to immense
                        destruction. Such terrible acts are a violent symptom of an
                        afflicted mental state. To respond wisely and effectively,
                        we need to be guided by more healthy states of mind, not
                        just to avoid feeding the flames of hatred, but to respond
                        skillfully. We would do well to remember that the war
                        against hatred and terror can be waged on this, the
                        internal front, too.

                        Tenzin Gyatso is the 14th Dalai
                        Lama.
                      • Jason Fishman
                        ... Jason: Yes, always something different, healing type meditations from time to time, although those are quite draining. Remote viewing is one of my
                        Message 11 of 27 , Apr 27, 2003
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                          --- Nina <murrkis@...> wrote:
                          > > I have also been diagnosed with the same, like
                          > child
                          > > like father, yet I would have to say that asking
                          > > myself this question makes me take a deeper look
                          > into
                          > > my short attention span and gives me a point of
                          > > reference for my hyperactivity. Honestly, it's
                          > > something that becomes an easy plus for many that
                          > > suffer this disorder. Find the benifits and work
                          > with
                          > > those. Technology has yet to find a way to cure
                          > the
                          > > blind, yet most manage quite well!
                          >
                          > Jason,
                          >
                          > Have you experimented personally with different
                          > kinds of meditation?

                          Jason: Yes, always something different, healing type
                          meditations from time to time, although those are
                          quite draining. Remote viewing is one of my favorites,
                          although it's still pretty tough to master (3years and
                          I still slip out). There is an interal denial that
                          it's occuring.

                          I also do multiple thought concentration. This is
                          where one tries to carry on multiple views/concepts.

                          I would have to say that a large majority of folks
                          have a short attention span, I have always noticed
                          this. If one takes on something they have an high
                          interest in then they can easly stay on task, if not
                          then it's short. But I do find myself bouncing from
                          task to task quite often.

                          > Have you found one to be more helpful than others?

                          Jason: Helpful in controlling adhd? Then no, I don't
                          attept to control it any longer. It's just a part that
                          I am, I make due and it has it's equal benifits.
                          Although Bob my differ with me here, meditation may
                          relieve stress, but stress isn't always a negative,
                          balance is key. A side note, panic disorder often goes
                          hand in hand with adhd, if you have ever experienced
                          what feels like a shift in "me-ness" that's pretty
                          much what panic disorder is all about for me. I have
                          also had a great deal of OBE's, up until a few months
                          ago, I wasn't certain it was occuring though.

                          > What do you do to
                          > work with your ADHD, if anything?

                          Jason: As stated above, nothing directly anymore.

                          How do you figure
                          > it in your view
                          > of self?

                          Jason: I don't do this directly anymore either :) I
                          spend more time seeing things in others and relating
                          them to me and my actions (who doesn't right?) I would
                          say I spent a great deal of thought here though,
                          seeing things how they are. What is becomming clear,
                          is it's all the same between people, how they
                          interact, including what appears as motivations and
                          personas.

                          > Nina


                          Peace and Love


                          __________________________________
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                        • Jason Fishman
                          Nice, thanks for pasting this Bobby, I skimmed it and dropped it in my inbox for further reveiw :) Basically, thats my son and I, we re bad kids ;) I may
                          Message 12 of 27 , Apr 27, 2003
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                            Nice, thanks for pasting this Bobby, I skimmed it and
                            dropped it in my inbox for further reveiw :)
                            Basically, thats my son and I, we're "bad" kids ;) I
                            may break this down later... If I take a moment to
                            focus :)

                            Peace and Love

                            --- texasbg2000 <Bigbobgraham@...> wrote:
                            > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                            > "diana_53231"
                            > <diana_53231@y...> wrote:
                            > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                            > "Nina"
                            > > <murrkis@y...> wrote:
                            > > > > I have also been diagnosed with the same, like
                            > child
                            > > > > like father, yet I would have to say that
                            > asking
                            > > > > myself this question makes me take a deeper
                            > look into
                            > > > > my short attention span and gives me a point
                            > of
                            > > > > reference for my hyperactivity. Honestly, it's
                            > > > > something that becomes an easy plus for many
                            > that
                            > > > > suffer this disorder. Find the benifits and
                            > work with
                            > > > > those. Technology has yet to find a way to
                            > cure the
                            > > > > blind, yet most manage quite well!
                            > > >
                            > > > Jason,
                            > > >
                            > > > Have you experimented personally with different
                            > kinds of
                            > > meditation?
                            > > > Have you found one to be more helpful than
                            > others? What do you do
                            > > to
                            > > > work with your ADHD, if anything? How do you
                            > figure it in your
                            > view
                            > > > of self?
                            > > >
                            > > > Nina
                            > >
                            > > There exists a body of thought which views the set
                            > of
                            > > behaviours 'diagnosed' as ADHD as, in fact, a
                            > resistance to the
                            > > dopamine addiction which obtains in the non-ADHD
                            > population.
                            > >
                            > > http://tinyurl.com/af72
                            > >
                            > > d
                            >
                            > Interesting article Diana. I clipped a few things.
                            >
                            > @@@ Their cognitively superior state is demonstrable
                            > by results in
                            > engineering, but not in arbitrary situations where
                            > engaging in
                            > repetitive behaviours and nothing else is by
                            > definition, an inherent
                            > good. The person is isolated socially and
                            > linguistically, and subject
                            > to bullying by people who are trapped in addictive
                            > behaviour, but
                            > think they have mastery of the situation.
                            >
                            > Clinical Consequences
                            >
                            > The ADHD child is neither deficient nor disordered.
                            > He (or sometimes
                            > she) is actually more aware than those around him.
                            > When faced with
                            > 100 simple arithmetic examples he looks at what he
                            > is doing during
                            > the first few, grasps the principle of the
                            > algorithm, and can then
                            > handle the general case. This comprehension is then
                            > a part of him for
                            > life. He can see no possible benefit in doing
                            > another 90 examples,
                            > and repeating behaviours does not seem to be an
                            > inherent good. He
                            > therefore looks out of the window, where something
                            > interesting is
                            > happening. His teacher already resents him because
                            > of his non-
                            > participation in the dopamine economy - he does not
                            > co-ritual fix
                            > like the "good" children do. --- In fact, the
                            > zombie-like robotism
                            > the teacher calls "attention" is nothing like the
                            > true concentration
                            > the teacher calls "hyperfocusing". Woe betide the
                            > child if he
                            > expresses his feelings, since the teacher will then
                            > claim that he
                            > refuses to "learn", and often eggs on the "good"
                            > children to perform
                            > contempt/threat displays. The more effort the child
                            > makes, the worse
                            > the response from teacher. Eventually the distorted
                            > perception of the
                            > highly ritualised teacher is endorsed by highly
                            > ritualised local
                            > government officials and healthcare workers, the
                            > barrage of hostility
                            > becomes quite unbearable for the child, and he
                            > develops emotional
                            > disturbance. This contrasts with the unaware
                            > self-satisfied smugness
                            > of others, and he is described as unable to "keep
                            > calm". ---
                            >
                            > For deep thinkers, particularly very young ones
                            > already in distress,
                            > who have not been taught to use their powerful minds
                            > correctly,
                            > stimulant drugs are a very bad idea. They cause the
                            > surface awareness
                            > to race, and block contemplation.
                            >
                            > Bobby G.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >


                            __________________________________
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                            The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
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                          • diana_53231
                            ... ... It s worth noting that these methods are not just useful, but inexpensive. You don t need a drug or an injection. You don t have to become a Buddhist,
                            Message 13 of 27 , Apr 27, 2003
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                              --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "texasbg2000"
                              <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
                              > By TENZIN GYATSO (Tenzin Gyatso is the 14th Dalai
                              > Lama.)
                              > from the NY Times.com

                              ..."It's worth noting that these methods are not just useful,
                              but inexpensive. You don't need a drug or an injection. You
                              don't have to become a Buddhist, or adopt any particular
                              religious faith. Everybody has the potential to lead a
                              peaceful, meaningful life. We must explore as far as we can
                              how that can be brought about."

                              Dear Bobby,

                              Thanks for bringing forward pieces from the reciprocality site. I
                              don't have the statistic at hand of the per capita % of diagnosed
                              ADHD; it's quite high. As is the per capita incarceration rate here
                              in the US. In both cases, society seems quite content to stigmatize,
                              drug and imprison quite a staggering number of its population rather
                              than turn and look at itself.

                              "Worth noting," indeed. "You don't need a drug or injection." Of
                              more benefit to the gross national product is to pathologize, and
                              treat.

                              d.
                            • Melody
                              ... ... Thanks for forwarding this Bobby. Who better to speak to this issue than he? Melody
                              Message 14 of 27 , Apr 27, 2003
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                                > If humanity is to survive, happiness and inner balance are
                                > crucial.

                                <snip>


                                > The calamity of 9/11 demonstrated that modern technology
                                > and human intelligence guided by hatred can lead to immense
                                > destruction. Such terrible acts are a violent symptom of an
                                > afflicted mental state. To respond wisely and effectively,
                                > we need to be guided by more healthy states of mind, not
                                > just to avoid feeding the flames of hatred, but to respond
                                > skillfully.

                                >We would do well to remember that the war
                                > against hatred and terror can be waged on this, the
                                > internal front, too.
                                >
                                > Tenzin Gyatso is the 14th Dalai
                                > Lama.


                                Thanks for forwarding this Bobby.

                                Who better to speak to this issue
                                than he?

                                Melody
                              • texasbg2000
                                ... here ... stigmatize, ... rather ... You are a real gem Diana. Much love to you Bobby G.
                                Message 15 of 27 , Apr 27, 2003
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                                  --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "diana_53231"
                                  <diana_53231@y...> wrote:
                                  > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "texasbg2000"
                                  > <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
                                  > > By TENZIN GYATSO (Tenzin Gyatso is the 14th Dalai
                                  > > Lama.)
                                  > > from the NY Times.com
                                  >
                                  > ..."It's worth noting that these methods are not just useful,
                                  > but inexpensive. You don't need a drug or an injection. You
                                  > don't have to become a Buddhist, or adopt any particular
                                  > religious faith. Everybody has the potential to lead a
                                  > peaceful, meaningful life. We must explore as far as we can
                                  > how that can be brought about."
                                  >
                                  > Dear Bobby,
                                  >
                                  > Thanks for bringing forward pieces from the reciprocality site. I
                                  > don't have the statistic at hand of the per capita % of diagnosed
                                  > ADHD; it's quite high. As is the per capita incarceration rate
                                  here
                                  > in the US. In both cases, society seems quite content to
                                  stigmatize,
                                  > drug and imprison quite a staggering number of its population
                                  rather
                                  > than turn and look at itself.
                                  >
                                  > "Worth noting," indeed. "You don't need a drug or injection." Of
                                  > more benefit to the gross national product is to pathologize, and
                                  > treat.
                                  >
                                  > d.

                                  You are a real gem Diana.
                                  Much love to you
                                  Bobby G.
                                • texasbg2000
                                  ... That is true Melody, who better than he? Tibet was ravaged by the Chinese. Yet they remain unattached. They are the key IMO to the problem in the
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Apr 27, 2003
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                                    --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Melody"
                                    <melodyande@c...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > If humanity is to survive, happiness and inner balance are
                                    > > crucial.
                                    >
                                    > <snip>
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > > The calamity of 9/11 demonstrated that modern technology
                                    > > and human intelligence guided by hatred can lead to immense
                                    > > destruction. Such terrible acts are a violent symptom of an
                                    > > afflicted mental state. To respond wisely and effectively,
                                    > > we need to be guided by more healthy states of mind, not
                                    > > just to avoid feeding the flames of hatred, but to respond
                                    > > skillfully.
                                    >
                                    > >We would do well to remember that the war
                                    > > against hatred and terror can be waged on this, the
                                    > > internal front, too.
                                    > >
                                    > > Tenzin Gyatso is the 14th Dalai
                                    > > Lama.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Thanks for forwarding this Bobby.
                                    >
                                    > Who better to speak to this issue
                                    > than he?
                                    >
                                    > Melody

                                    That is true Melody, who better than he? Tibet was ravaged by the
                                    Chinese. Yet they remain unattached. They are the key IMO to the
                                    problem in the Palestine and Ireland.

                                    If a World Court could reinstall Tibetan's to run their country
                                    because they have used peaceful means then The World could turn to
                                    the people who use violence and say "Non-violence works".

                                    No bombs, and no death. The Tibetans are there for the World if the
                                    world will use them.

                                    Love
                                    Bobby G.
                                  • texasbg2000
                                    ... Dear G. That is true only in Bhakti Yoga tradition. Raja and Jnani and Hatha rely on the inner guru. Love Bobby G.
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Apr 27, 2003
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                                      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "G"
                                      <crystalkundalini@h...> wrote:


                                      > there are some other things that would help but this
                                      > would really require a one to one exchange .....
                                      >
                                      > shanti om

                                      Dear G.

                                      That is true only in Bhakti Yoga tradition. Raja and Jnani and Hatha
                                      rely on the inner guru.

                                      Love
                                      Bobby G.
                                    • Melody
                                      ... While it may be generally accepted as error that society tends to pathologize and treat with drugs certain expressions , it may also be equally
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Apr 27, 2003
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                                        > "Worth noting," indeed. "You don't need a drug or injection." Of
                                        > more benefit to the gross national product is to pathologize, and
                                        > treat.
                                        >
                                        > d.


                                        While it may be generally accepted as 'error'
                                        that society tends to pathologize and treat
                                        with drugs certain 'expressions',

                                        it may also be equally erroneous to make
                                        a blanket statement that certain 'expressions'
                                        shouldn't be treated with drugs and injections.


                                        Yesterday, while watching a parade in my
                                        community, I came upon the doctor who
                                        had last year 'pathologized' my condition,
                                        and then treated it. ( As a reservist, she
                                        has been moved to active duty, and thus
                                        has sold her practice and moved to a
                                        military community.)

                                        I told her how much I missed her. And
                                        to my surprise, I also hugged her....telling
                                        her how much I appreciated her timely
                                        'intervention'.

                                        I'm not being 'treated' any longer.....
                                        don't need to be. But boy, howdy,
                                        am I grateful that I had been.

                                        Melody
                                      • diana_53231
                                        ... Of ... Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I ll meet you there. ~ Rumi
                                        Message 19 of 27 , Apr 27, 2003
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                                          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Melody"
                                          <melodyande@c...> wrote:
                                          > > "Worth noting," indeed. "You don't need a drug or injection."
                                          Of
                                          > > more benefit to the gross national product is to pathologize, and
                                          > > treat.
                                          > >
                                          > > d.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > While it may be generally accepted as 'error'
                                          > that society tends to pathologize and treat
                                          > with drugs certain 'expressions',
                                          >
                                          > it may also be equally erroneous to make
                                          > a blanket statement that certain 'expressions'
                                          > shouldn't be treated with drugs and injections.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Yesterday, while watching a parade in my
                                          > community, I came upon the doctor who
                                          > had last year 'pathologized' my condition,
                                          > and then treated it. ( As a reservist, she
                                          > has been moved to active duty, and thus
                                          > has sold her practice and moved to a
                                          > military community.)
                                          >
                                          > I told her how much I missed her. And
                                          > to my surprise, I also hugged her....telling
                                          > her how much I appreciated her timely
                                          > 'intervention'.
                                          >
                                          > I'm not being 'treated' any longer.....
                                          > don't need to be. But boy, howdy,
                                          > am I grateful that I had been.
                                          >
                                          > Melody

                                          "Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing,
                                          there is a field. I'll meet you there."

                                          ~ Rumi
                                        • G
                                          ... Hatha ... G: i know what traditions rely on what measures...... i have traversed both a Bhakti and a Jnana Path.... and am quite familiar with Raja Yoga
                                          Message 20 of 27 , Apr 27, 2003
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                                            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                                            "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
                                            > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "G"
                                            > <crystalkundalini@h...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > > there are some other things that would help but this
                                            > > would really require a one to one exchange .....
                                            > >
                                            > > shanti om
                                            >
                                            > Dear G.
                                            >
                                            > That is true only in Bhakti Yoga tradition. Raja and Jnani and
                                            Hatha
                                            > rely on the inner guru.
                                            >
                                            > Love
                                            > Bobby G.


                                            G: i know what traditions rely on what measures......
                                            i have traversed both a Bhakti and a Jnana Path....
                                            and am quite familiar with Raja Yoga as well.........

                                            i am not speaking of a leaning on or surrendering to
                                            someone or something at this point ....... but am speaking
                                            of an external guidance on how to look at and to
                                            navigate the mental dynamics that are being waded
                                            through........ what was being referenced is helping
                                            someone through ADHD or ADD or panic disorders or
                                            P.T.S.D ..... when they are not in any type of tradition
                                            or just in the starting stages, then they will need
                                            some type of guidance and support along the way........
                                            there is a way to guide someone to the point where they
                                            are stable enough to then do the work themselves.......
                                            once they understand the mechanics of it all......

                                            it is this which is being addressed......
                                          • G
                                            ... Hatha ... G: i know what traditions rely on what measures...... i have traversed both a Bhakti and a Jnana Path.... and am quite familiar with Raja Yoga
                                            Message 21 of 27 , Apr 27, 2003
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                                              --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                                              "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
                                              > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "G"
                                              > <crystalkundalini@h...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > > there are some other things that would help but this
                                              > > would really require a one to one exchange .....
                                              > >
                                              > > shanti om
                                              >
                                              > Dear G.
                                              >
                                              > That is true only in Bhakti Yoga tradition. Raja and Jnani and
                                              Hatha
                                              > rely on the inner guru.
                                              >
                                              > Love
                                              > Bobby G.


                                              G: i know what traditions rely on what measures......
                                              i have traversed both a Bhakti and a Jnana Path....
                                              and am quite familiar with Raja Yoga as well.........

                                              i am not speaking of a leaning on or surrendering to
                                              someone or something at this point ....... but am speaking
                                              of an external guidance on how to look at and to
                                              navigate the mental dynamics that are being waded
                                              through........ what was being referenced is helping
                                              someone through ADHD or ADD or panic disorders or
                                              P.T.S.D ..... when they are not in any type of tradition
                                              or just in the starting stages, then they will need
                                              some type of guidance and support along the way........
                                              there is a way to guide someone to the point where they
                                              are stable enough to then do the work themselves.......
                                              once they understand the mechanics of it all......

                                              it is this which is being addressed......

                                              shanti om
                                            • texasbg2000
                                              ... well then you just needed to be reminded of the larger sphere where it is not required to have a one on one to be more explicit. ... Since I was just
                                              Message 22 of 27 , Apr 27, 2003
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                                                --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "G"
                                                <crystalkundalini@h...> wrote:
                                                > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                                                > "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
                                                > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "G"
                                                > > <crystalkundalini@h...> wrote:
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > > there are some other things that would help but this
                                                > > > would really require a one to one exchange .....
                                                > > >
                                                > > > shanti om
                                                > >
                                                > > Dear G.
                                                > >
                                                > > That is true only in Bhakti Yoga tradition. Raja and Jnani and
                                                > Hatha
                                                > > rely on the inner guru.
                                                > >
                                                > > Love
                                                > > Bobby G.
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > G: i know what traditions rely on what measures......
                                                > i have traversed both a Bhakti and a Jnana Path....
                                                > and am quite familiar with Raja Yoga as well.........

                                                well then you just needed to be reminded of the larger sphere where
                                                it is not required to have a one on one to be more explicit.

                                                >
                                                > i am not speaking of a leaning on or surrendering to
                                                > someone or something at this point ....... but am speaking
                                                > of an external guidance on how to look at and to
                                                > navigate the mental dynamics that are being waded
                                                > through........ what was being referenced is helping
                                                > someone through ADHD or ADD or panic disorders or
                                                > P.T.S.D ..... when they are not in any type of tradition
                                                > or just in the starting stages, then they will need
                                                > some type of guidance and support along the way........
                                                > there is a way to guide someone to the point where they
                                                > are stable enough to then do the work themselves.......
                                                > once they understand the mechanics of it all......
                                                >
                                                > it is this which is being addressed......

                                                Since I was just reading the words just like other people you should
                                                know that it looks like you could have been offering your services
                                                where they weren't really recquired. That is, letting it be known
                                                that you could be of service to someone who has written that they
                                                need help could be a way of convincing that person that the only way
                                                was through a one on one. I was just disabusing that person (in
                                                absentia) of that notion.

                                                I don't believe I have stepped on your toes here, I just want to be
                                                clear.

                                                Love
                                                Bobby G.
                                              • judirhodes
                                                ... should ... way ... ********* Yes, you sniffed that one out right Bobby. Tell me the woman s not *nuts*! Judi
                                                Message 23 of 27 , Apr 27, 2003
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                                                  --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "texasbg2000"
                                                  <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:

                                                  > Since I was just reading the words just like other people you
                                                  should
                                                  > know that it looks like you could have been offering your services
                                                  > where they weren't really recquired. That is, letting it be known
                                                  > that you could be of service to someone who has written that they
                                                  > need help could be a way of convincing that person that the only
                                                  way
                                                  > was through a one on one. I was just disabusing that person (in
                                                  > absentia) of that notion.
                                                  >
                                                  > I don't believe I have stepped on your toes here, I just want to be
                                                  > clear.
                                                  >
                                                  > Love
                                                  > Bobby G.

                                                  ********* Yes, you "sniffed" that one out right Bobby. Tell me the
                                                  woman's not *nuts*!

                                                  Judi
                                                • texasbg2000
                                                  ... services ... be ... She s not nuts Judi. Not anymore than me anyway. I can t see the ways I act and so far I haven t met anybody who could. Love Bobby G.
                                                  Message 24 of 27 , Apr 27, 2003
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                                                    --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "judirhodes"
                                                    <judirhodes@z...> wrote:
                                                    > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "texasbg2000"
                                                    > <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > > Since I was just reading the words just like other people you
                                                    > should
                                                    > > know that it looks like you could have been offering your
                                                    services
                                                    > > where they weren't really recquired. That is, letting it be known
                                                    > > that you could be of service to someone who has written that they
                                                    > > need help could be a way of convincing that person that the only
                                                    > way
                                                    > > was through a one on one. I was just disabusing that person (in
                                                    > > absentia) of that notion.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > I don't believe I have stepped on your toes here, I just want to
                                                    be
                                                    > > clear.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Love
                                                    > > Bobby G.
                                                    >
                                                    > ********* Yes, you "sniffed" that one out right Bobby. Tell me the
                                                    > woman's not *nuts*!
                                                    >
                                                    > Judi

                                                    She's not nuts Judi. Not anymore than me anyway. I can't see the
                                                    ways I act and so far I haven't met anybody who could.

                                                    Love
                                                    Bobby G.
                                                  • G
                                                    ... and ... where ... speaking ... should ... services ... they ... only way ... (in ... be ... G: no that is fine..... i am not saying that i am the one
                                                    Message 25 of 27 , Apr 27, 2003
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                                                      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                                                      "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
                                                      > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "G"
                                                      > <crystalkundalini@h...> wrote:
                                                      > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                                                      > > "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
                                                      > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "G"
                                                      > > > <crystalkundalini@h...> wrote:
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > > there are some other things that would help but this
                                                      > > > > would really require a one to one exchange .....
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > > shanti om
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > Dear G.
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > That is true only in Bhakti Yoga tradition. Raja and Jnani
                                                      and
                                                      > > Hatha
                                                      > > > rely on the inner guru.
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > Love
                                                      > > > Bobby G.
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > > G: i know what traditions rely on what measures......
                                                      > > i have traversed both a Bhakti and a Jnana Path....
                                                      > > and am quite familiar with Raja Yoga as well.........
                                                      >
                                                      > well then you just needed to be reminded of the larger sphere
                                                      where
                                                      > it is not required to have a one on one to be more explicit.
                                                      >
                                                      > >
                                                      > > i am not speaking of a leaning on or surrendering to
                                                      > > someone or something at this point ....... but am
                                                      speaking
                                                      > > of an external guidance on how to look at and to
                                                      > > navigate the mental dynamics that are being waded
                                                      > > through........ what was being referenced is helping
                                                      > > someone through ADHD or ADD or panic disorders or
                                                      > > P.T.S.D ..... when they are not in any type of tradition
                                                      > > or just in the starting stages, then they will need
                                                      > > some type of guidance and support along the way........
                                                      > > there is a way to guide someone to the point where they
                                                      > > are stable enough to then do the work themselves.......
                                                      > > once they understand the mechanics of it all......
                                                      > >
                                                      > > it is this which is being addressed......
                                                      >
                                                      > Since I was just reading the words just like other people you
                                                      should
                                                      > know that it looks like you could have been offering your
                                                      services
                                                      > where they weren't really recquired. That is, letting it be known
                                                      > that you could be of service to someone who has written that
                                                      they
                                                      > need help could be a way of convincing that person that the
                                                      only way
                                                      > was through a one on one. I was just disabusing that person
                                                      (in
                                                      > absentia) of that notion.
                                                      >
                                                      > I don't believe I have stepped on your toes here, I just want to
                                                      be
                                                      > clear.
                                                      >
                                                      > Love
                                                      > Bobby G.


                                                      G: no that is fine..... i am not saying that i am the one and only
                                                      one that could deal with this...... i am saying that most need to
                                                      have some kind of help along the way.......

                                                      we are speaking mostly of people that do not have any
                                                      teacher or path per-say.....

                                                      but yes i have in fact helped many that are within the throes of
                                                      these types of problems and have seen astonishing results.......
                                                      therefore i know it is possible and that there are ways to help
                                                      guide one to be able to work through their own problems.......

                                                      it doesn't need to take a spiritual bent at all... i am sure that
                                                      there are other ways and means out there as well..........






                                                      shanti om ...
                                                    • Jason Fishman
                                                      ... Jason: I do love your pleasentries. It s wonderful Bobby! One thing to note here is that no one does anything without a percieved benifit to themselves.
                                                      Message 26 of 27 , Apr 27, 2003
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                                                        --- texasbg2000 <Bigbobgraham@...> wrote:
                                                        > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                                                        > "G"
                                                        > <crystalkundalini@h...> wrote:
                                                        > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                                                        >
                                                        > > "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
                                                        > > > --- In
                                                        > meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "G"
                                                        > > > <crystalkundalini@h...> wrote:
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > > there are some other things that
                                                        > would help but this
                                                        > > > > would really require a one to one
                                                        > exchange .....
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > > shanti om
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > Dear G.
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > That is true only in Bhakti Yoga tradition.
                                                        > Raja and Jnani and
                                                        > > Hatha
                                                        > > > rely on the inner guru.
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > Love
                                                        > > > Bobby G.
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > > G: i know what traditions rely on what
                                                        > measures......
                                                        > > i have traversed both a Bhakti and a Jnana
                                                        > Path....
                                                        > > and am quite familiar with Raja Yoga as
                                                        > well.........
                                                        >
                                                        > well then you just needed to be reminded of the
                                                        > larger sphere where
                                                        > it is not required to have a one on one to be more
                                                        > explicit.
                                                        >
                                                        > >
                                                        > > i am not speaking of a leaning on or
                                                        > surrendering to
                                                        > > someone or something at this point .......
                                                        > but am speaking
                                                        > > of an external guidance on how to look at
                                                        > and to
                                                        > > navigate the mental dynamics that are being
                                                        > waded
                                                        > > through........ what was being referenced
                                                        > is helping
                                                        > > someone through ADHD or ADD or panic
                                                        > disorders or
                                                        > > P.T.S.D ..... when they are not in any
                                                        > type of tradition
                                                        > > or just in the starting stages, then they
                                                        > will need
                                                        > > some type of guidance and support along the
                                                        > way........
                                                        > > there is a way to guide someone to the
                                                        > point where they
                                                        > > are stable enough to then do the work
                                                        > themselves.......
                                                        > > once they understand the mechanics of it
                                                        > all......
                                                        > >
                                                        > > it is this which is being addressed......
                                                        >
                                                        > Since I was just reading the words just like other
                                                        > people you should
                                                        > know that it looks like you could have been offering
                                                        > your services
                                                        > where they weren't really recquired. That is,
                                                        > letting it be known
                                                        > that you could be of service to someone who has
                                                        > written that they
                                                        > need help could be a way of convincing that person
                                                        > that the only way
                                                        > was through a one on one. I was just disabusing
                                                        > that person (in
                                                        > absentia) of that notion.
                                                        >
                                                        > I don't believe I have stepped on your toes here, I
                                                        > just want to be
                                                        > clear.
                                                        >
                                                        > Love
                                                        > Bobby G.

                                                        Jason: I do love your pleasentries. It's wonderful
                                                        Bobby! One thing to note here is that no one does
                                                        anything without a percieved benifit to themselves.
                                                        Absolutley, 100 percent, nada, so your observation
                                                        stands 100 percent.

                                                        One of these days I would love to see some of your
                                                        work in person. I still have "melody on the mountain"
                                                        as my desktop pict. Even now it moves me unspeakably!

                                                        Peace and Love

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                                                      • texasbg2000
                                                        ... that s great to hear Jason. thanks. I think youre right about art in person. that is the way it is supposed to be seen and felt. Visual art is
                                                        Message 27 of 27 , Apr 27, 2003
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                                                          >
                                                          > Jason: I do love your pleasentries. It's wonderful
                                                          > Bobby! One thing to note here is that no one does
                                                          > anything without a percieved benifit to themselves.
                                                          > Absolutley, 100 percent, nada, so your observation
                                                          > stands 100 percent.
                                                          >
                                                          > One of these days I would love to see some of your
                                                          > work in person. I still have "melody on the mountain"
                                                          > as my desktop pict. Even now it moves me unspeakably!
                                                          >
                                                          > Peace and Love


                                                          that's great to hear Jason. thanks.
                                                          I think youre right about art in person. that is the way it is
                                                          supposed to be seen and felt. Visual art is instantaneous and
                                                          remains immediate. Reproductions work though.

                                                          Love
                                                          Bobby G.
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