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Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: #1 Life practice -Karta

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  • Jason Fishman
    ... Any activity, this is what everything includes. For example you and I are having this conversation, you disagree with what is said, where does that get you
    Message 1 of 28 , Mar 1, 2003
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      > what are you saying? please name the
      > activities what lead you to something
      > [which is nothing of course]

      Any activity, this is what everything includes. For
      example you and I are having this conversation, you
      disagree with what is said, where does that get you in
      your mind? Another example, you have all this great
      knowledge then one day your mind goes blank (such as
      amnesia or altzimers disease does over time) what do
      YOU have left? Does that mean all those things you
      experienced and knowledge you gained never happened?
      How would you know? You can't do them over. Think
      about that, if you will.

      > sounds like j* rhetoric, she
      > brutally distorts and simplifies
      > everything to make her point and
      > gives the impression to the ranch
      > members that they have a "special" *understanding* i
      > hope this mutation
      > in thinking can be reversed
      > re-examined and to broaden ones
      > view is still possible
      >
      > Jason, think on your own please

      Karta, this is on my own, yet it's nothing special,
      derived from thinking on my own and through the
      teaching of everything. This is everything, how much
      broader view can one have?

      > God is in the detail. I thing
      > it is admirable to learn the
      > fundamentalist black & white formula
      > and i enjoy the merry go around
      > word-games spinning from something
      > into nothing and than back again a
      > game the ranch elite loves to play..

      Of course god is in the detail. God IS everything,
      everywhere every moment, you are not seperate from
      god. There is no fundamentalism, yet everything is
      fun-da-mental, light and dark, black and white. I'm
      sorry you have had a bad experience with the ranch,
      but they are not elite, nor have I been on the ranch
      list. ALL are you, not seperate from you. Word spining
      is conversations, tossing concepts to and fro which
      amounts to nothing more then the moment which is based
      on everything and nothing equally feeding on each
      other.

      > Are you talking about YOUR experience?

      All experiences are exsistant. As said before one
      cannot go to no-exsistance and come back to tell of
      ones experience there.

      > >
      > > One can apparently be following what is called a
      > > spiritual path, meaning their spirit, their soul
      > is
      > > the key to unlocking some mystery. They can
      > attempt to
      >
      > WRONG! spiritual exercize is like
      > the sports it is to optimise ones body-mind-spirit
      > organism [spirit
      > like enthusiasm, will-power not your
      > teachers holy ghost on the way to
      > her Savior, NO NEED TO mystify all]

      Certainly, you said the same thing I said, how can
      either of us be correct?

      > > be fulfilled by fantasizing they are some mystical
      > > force that is housed within a physical body to
      > reach
      >
      > WRONG! again there are forces in the
      > body like the force of an unavoidable
      > bowel movement when one is full of
      > shit and there is a force of a vacuum
      > after all the air is emptied form
      > the lungs, which force than will suck
      > fresh air in
      >
      > and than there is the lifeforce energy
      > of a living organism on the tracks
      > of the nervous system and its plexuses
      > which with training can be
      > manipulated and used to refine the
      > state of this living organism to an
      > optimal point when it radiates
      > intelligence etc


      Of course, These are all parts of you which is
      everything. This does not desribe HOW phenomena happen
      in exsistance. This is something to KNOW. If all of
      the earth was wiped out where only the soil and water
      remained, did your knowledge go anywhere? Do you feel
      you take something with you when death comes? How can
      you? Everything you have is stored in memory, is in
      mind, do you take mind with you? Once your gone, you
      will take nothing more then what you came in with,
      which is nothing more then everything.

      > > some enlightened phase.
      >
      > YES! which phase one gains
      > *understanding*: of course i mean
      > the RIGHT understanding aka
      > enlightened consciousness


      Yes, phase one, phase two, phase ten million, all the
      same thing, amounts to everything, which is already
      what you have.

      > This souls search always comes
      > > up short handed, usually with a person looking
      > hard
      >
      >
      > WRONG! it comes up exactly as it does
      > and as it IS

      When you complete these phases, what do you expect to
      gain? Will you be special then? Seperate from all
      others and everything?

      > > enough saying, what a waste, what a nothing.
      > >
      >
      > oh! the proverbial nothing which is something of
      > course,
      >
      >
      > i say it is a time WELL spent

      Of course, what else will one do with the moments that
      pass? It's all experiences that leads to knowledge,
      that eventually give one wisdom, if those moments
      arise that one is willing to ponder experience,
      nothing more then what you already have.

      >
      > > Now most of us already have come to terms with a
      > > physical search. The more money one amasses, or
      > things
      > > a person obtains leads exactly the same place
      > with,
      > > what a waste of time, what a big nothing.
      > >
      > > The emotion search is somewhat more tricky.
      >
      > clean and simple again: each activity is
      > boiled down to to the dirty word to:
      > *SEARCH* which of course leads to
      > nothing [something<->nothing] my head
      > is spinning iam getting dizzy

      HEHE, getting dizzy is fun! One can decide they are no
      longer searching, but there is always knowledge to
      gain, experiences to experience, all of which are the
      same activity of existance.


      > >Each
      > > living being has a set of programs. To feel
      > something
      > > based on a set of conditions. To be angry when
      > > threatened (for survival) to feel loved when cared
      > for
      > > (also for survival of a group) to feel sad of the
      > > loss/change of someone or something (again for a
      > > survival of the group). This again leads to
      > nothing,
      >
      >
      > by now with your disappointments that everything
      > leads to nothing i'm moved
      > to give you something.. i just don't
      > know what ...

      I have no disappointments, only freedom and clarity.
      You can give me anything you'd like, yet I can only
      retain the knowledge of your understanding for a
      moment. Anything I do is what it is, then it's gone
      before it's over, no different then you, it only
      exists in memory.

      > > following your heart may give one emotional
      > > understanding, yet when ones heart is yanked from
      > > their insides (as the story goes) then that again
      > leads
      > > to the big emptiness of nothing.
      > >
      > > There is a 4 factor in this 3-d world, that is the
      > > tool of the mind which encompasses all of the
      > factors.
      > > To be a witness to the non eternal truth of each
      > > (which are really the make up of a "you"), to
      > > rationalize, experience and conceptualize
      > knowledge
      > > that turns understanding, into wisdom. This is the
      > > heart of the matter, yet even when stepped back in
      > > witness stance, this leads to the same truth.
      > Nothing
      > > (no-existance) is everything.
      > >
      > > This is the eternal truth and a very tough pill to
      > > swallow. To think that everything you have ever
      > done
      > > (in memory) is for not, for a big zero, that you
      > don't
      > > really exist (only in the now), well most cannot
      > even
      > > look at that pill let alone consume it into their
      > very
      > > being. There must be more! People tell themselves,
      > we
      > > want to survive, to be eternal, yet we already are
      > > eternal. Everything that is our makup is eternal,
      > yet
      > > it's not ours, it is merely on loan till the
      > contract
      > > runs out, yet like it or not, at that point you
      > face
      > > the big nothing (no-understood-exsistance), which
      > is
      > > everything!
      > >
      > > Someone once told me, one should practice to die
      > > everynight before going to sleep, this way one is
      > nice
      > > and ready to live the next day! One should make
      > that a
      > > practice, it does quite well and one will be all
      > ready
      > > for death of form when the contract expires.
      >
      >
      > I like to swim and it leads to nothing
      > i like to meditate searchlessly, yoga
      > makes me feel good, [FEEL GOO!!!? i
      > can hear the poliCe cursing UPON
      > HEARING THE OTHER DIRTY WORD] altho

      Yup, all experiences exist in the mind, all will be
      gone in the blink of an eye. Whats left? Nothing :)

      Peace and love to you Karta

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    • Jason Fishman
      ... Certainly Bob and thank you. I work in graphic arts. If you require something for your future publications, drop me a note and I ll see what can be done!
      Message 2 of 28 , Mar 1, 2003
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        --- medit8ionsociety <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
        > Jason Fishman <munkiman4u@y...> wrote:
        >
        > snip
        > > Look forward to the new addition, How does one get
        > an
        > > inner traveler, BTW? I'm sure it was mentioned
        > before,
        > > yet it has seemed to have slipped my existing
        > memory!
        > >
        > > Peace and Love
        > >
        > Dear Jason,
        > The Inner Traveler is available by subscription,
        > free with a
        > membership in the Meditation Society of America, or
        > by writing
        > something or sharing artwork for it. Also, I
        > sometimes post the URL
        > for issues here on this group. We also now have
        > available a CD of the
        > first 10 issues. Info can be found on our web site,
        > Meditation Station
        > http://www.meditationsociety.com
        > Here's the URL of our sample issue:
        > http://www.meditationsociety.com/it71808/index.html
        > You will need the Adobe Reader tm 5.0 to read it. If
        > you
        > don't have it, the Adobe Reader can be downloaded
        > at:
        > http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep.html
        > Thanks for asking and I hope you enjoy and benefit
        > from it if you do
        > check it out.
        > Peace and blessings,
        > Bob

        Certainly Bob and thank you. I work in graphic arts.
        If you require something for your future publications,
        drop me a note and I'll see what can be done!

        Peace and Love

        __________________________________________________
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        Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
        http://taxes.yahoo.com/
      • Jason Fishman
        ... This is what one knows, how could one tell you what you know? In your idea of assumptions... what assumptions are being made? No activities are any more or
        Message 3 of 28 , Mar 1, 2003
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          --- "satkartar7 <mi_nok@...>" <mi_nok@...>
          wrote:
          > there are plenty of activities to chose
          > from, and if you say you are a bundle
          > of activities, than the best is to
          > talk about your own: what you know
          >
          > don't ever think that your choice of
          > activities are superior to others
          >
          > and do not assume why others do
          > anything even if it is called 'sadna"
          > just because you were exposed to a
          > very limited view about what spirituality is
          >
          > ----K

          This is what one knows, how could one tell you what
          you know? In your idea of assumptions... what
          assumptions are being made? No activities are any more
          or less of anything any other does, how could it be,
          it all is the same thing underneath?
          No limits to everything, yet only nothing remains.

          Peace and Love


          __________________________________________________
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        • Gene Poole <gene_poole@qwest.net>
          ... If you look at zero you see nothing, but if you look through it you see the world
          Message 4 of 28 , Mar 1, 2003
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            "tosime" <tosime@b...> wrote:
            > Hi Jason,
            >
            > This is quite a coincidence. After your post, the very next post I received
            > was...
            >
            > :-) Nothing is something, and Something is really nothing at all. T'ai Hsu
            > the "Great Nothing."
            >
            > It came one minute after yours.
            >
            > Is there some spiritual significance to "nothing"?
            >
            > ...Tony


            If you look at zero you see nothing, but if you look through it you
            see the world


            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Jason <munkiman4u@y...> [mailto:munkiman4u@y...]
            > Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 1:38 AM
            > To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Top 10 spiritual practices
            > -Tony
            >
            >
            > No need to thank me :) there is nothing, but everything.
            >
            >
            > Peace and Love
            >
            > > Hi Jason,
            > >
            > > Thanks for EVERYTHING...
            > >
            > > ...Tony
            > >
            > > Yes, a summary...
            > > Everything you have listed equals nothing to do more
            > > or less of.
            > >
            > > You can do meditation, yet you already are doing
            > > meditation. You can write and read yahoo groups, yet
            > > you already are writing and reading yahoo groups. You
            > > can be introspective, yet you already are
            > > introspecting. You can live in the now, yet you
            > > already are living in the now. You can observe nature,
            > > yet everything already is natural. You can teach,
            > > study, learn, Yet you already teach, study, and learn.
            > > Ahh my favorite, observing children, you already are
            > > observing children. My least favorite, attending
            > > church, again, you already attend church.
            > >
            > > This all comes down to a big nothing, a zero. No
            > > matter what you do, in your mind, this doing is
            > > something you are already doing. There is no doing,
            > > yet all is doing. Any words one can express, any doing
            > > one does can be flipped to an opposite, I'm not doing
            > > this or I'm not saying that. Two opposings cancel
            > > there for a zero, nothing. Its a circle of opposing
            > > factors which is the summary of all things, a zero, a
            > > huge never ending, never begining circle. You don't
            > > exist, yet you exists in the mind :)
            > >
            > > Peace and Love
            > >
            > > __________________________________________________
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            > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/
            > >
            > >
            > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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            > >
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          • satkartar7 <mi_nok@yahoo.com>
            Jason Fishman wrote: Another example, you have all this great ... WHY? why would i think about such things ... One can dare to be real ...
            Message 5 of 28 , Mar 2, 2003
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              Jason Fishman <munkiman4u@y...> wrote:
              Another example, you have all this great
              > knowledge then one day your mind goes blank (such as
              > amnesia or altzimers disease does over time) what do
              > YOU have left? Does that mean all those things you
              > experienced and knowledge you gained never happened?
              > How would you know? You can't do them over. Think
              > about that, if you will.
              >


              WHY? why would i think about such things


              > This is everything, how much
              > broader view can one have?


              One can dare to be real


              >
              > Of course, These are all parts of you which is
              > everything. This does not desribe HOW phenomena happen
              > in exsistance. This is something to KNOW. If all of
              > the earth was wiped out where only the soil and water
              > remained, did your knowledge go anywhere? Do you feel
              > you take something with you when death comes? How can
              > you? Everything you have is stored in memory, is in
              > mind, do you take mind with you? Once your gone, you
              > will take nothing more then what you came in with,
              > which is nothing more then everything.
              >

              >
              > Yes, phase one, phase two, phase ten million, all the
              > same thing, amounts to everything, which is already
              > what you have.
              >

              You Jason are a philosopher <smiles>


              > One can decide they are no
              > longer searching, but there is always knowledge to
              > gain, experiences to experience, all of which are the
              > same activity of existance.


              oh! this obsession with the *search*


              > This is the
              > heart of the matter, yet even when stepped back in
              > witness stance, this leads to the same truth.
              > Nothing
              > (no-existance) is everything.
              >
              > Yup, all experiences exist in the mind, all will be
              > gone in the blink of an eye. Whats left? Nothing :)


              ok Jason, i will keep in mind your
              advice, that to 'search' is the
              wrong activity and the notion of
              the 'nothing' the later Gene's way
              looking at the zero...

              i am not a philosopher, ALL I
              WANTED TO SAY is that: At times
              when i dare to exist between nowhere
              and somewhere between no ID and
              a transient one to use what makes
              me tick is getting into the *zone*
              what is easy with sadna yoga and
              meditation as i belive, that through
              yoga practice consciousness can be
              raised. And with higher
              consciousness there IS [must be and
              there is NOOOOO way around this]
              a refinement of character an upgrade
              in the ethics of action and yes!
              an upgrade in *understanding* these
              are biproducts of sadna

              Jason, i am glad; that what makes
              you tick is not trolling the
              *spiritual* as in: SPIRITUAL lists
              with knocking meditation and yoga,
              or what ever is listed as the aim
              of the club is: and trying to
              recruit normal people to some funny
              farm boot-camp to be insulted

              because i am fead up with that


              ----love,
              Karta
              >
              > Peace and love to you Karta
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