## re: [Meditation Society of America] re: mind trick

Expand Messages
• Hmm, that one really is freaky. Any ideas about it? Grant.
Message 1 of 28 , Feb 26, 2003
Hmm, that one really is freaky. Any ideas about it?

Grant.

> ** Original Subject: [Meditation Society of America] re: mind trick
> ** Original Date: 26 Feb 2003 12:50:45 -0000

> ** Original Message follows...

>
> Glad you all had some fun with it. I had a suspicion that none of you were quite 'normal',
> statistically speaking of course. <grin>
>
> I though of an apple first. Yeah, yeah, an apple is a fruit! I know, then I quickly thought of a carrot.
> Laughed my ass off so hard, Nasrudin couldn't find it! He thought of a club sandwich. Oh well...
>
> This one is really trippy: http://mr-31238.mr.valuehost.co.uk/assets/Flash/psychic.swf
>
> ciao,
>
> michael
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> meditationsocietyofamerica-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

>** --------- End Original Message ----------- **

>
• ... Yah, the clue is in the 9. Pick a 2 digit number, add the 2 digits, subtract from the 2 digit number, add the two numbers from the subtraction process and
Message 2 of 28 , Feb 27, 2003
--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, bardsley@c...
wrote:
> Hmm, that one really is freaky. Any ideas about it?
>
> Grant.

Yah, the clue is in the 9. Pick a 2 digit number, add the 2 digits,
subtract from the 2 digit number, add the two numbers from the
subtraction process and the answer is 9.

ie:

pick 73
sub 63
6+3 = 9

Observe the lhe list of symbols, every additive of 9
0,9,18,27... all have the same symbol!

The computer never misses. And we all go oooooooH!

cute, eh?

michael
• Yeah, very cute, though the maths stuff always signals trick . Did you see the one about picking cards on NDS recently? Cute also. Thanks for passing this one
Message 3 of 28 , Feb 27, 2003
Yeah, very cute, though the maths stuff always signals 'trick'. Did you see the one about picking cards on NDS recently? Cute also. Thanks for passing this one on Michael.

Grant.

> ** Original Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] re: mind trick
> ** Original Date: 27 Feb 2003 14:44:04 -0000

> ** Original Message follows...

>
> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, bardsley@c...
> wrote:
> > Hmm, that one really is freaky. Any ideas about it?
> >
> > Grant.
>
> Yah, the clue is in the 9. Pick a 2 digit number, add the 2 digits,
> subtract from the 2 digit number, add the two numbers from the
> subtraction process and the answer is 9.
>
> ie:
>
> pick 73
> sub 63
> 6+3 = 9
>
> Observe the lhe list of symbols, every additive of 9
> 0,9,18,27... all have the same symbol!
>
> The computer never misses. And we all go oooooooH!
>
> cute, eh?
>
> michael
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> meditationsocietyofamerica-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

>** --------- End Original Message ----------- **

>
• ... you see the one about picking cards on NDS recently? Cute also. Thanks for passing this one on Michael. ... Yes, I saw that one with the cards. I think
Message 4 of 28 , Feb 27, 2003
--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, bardsley@c...
wrote:
> Yeah, very cute, though the maths stuff always signals 'trick'. Did
you see the one about picking cards on NDS recently? Cute also.
Thanks for passing this one on Michael.
>
> Grant.

Yes, I saw that one with the cards. I think Jerry did the first post
on it on nds. It's another cutie. I remembered seeing that card trick
a few years ago. But I had put it so far out of mind (as it were)
that I had to solve the puzzle all over again.

The way I puzzled the trick out was to pull back and simply observe
what the trick did when no card was picked. Then the solution 'jumped
out' so to speak.

The card trick test of ESP can be found at
http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/pickover/home.htm

And for some hilarious 'explainations' of the test

http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/pickover/esp4.html

live laugh love and be happy,

michael
• Yea really, unfortunatly I had seen this one before. It jumped out then also. Yet I m positive the computer knows how to read my mind!! LOL Thanks for sharing
Message 5 of 28 , Feb 27, 2003
Yea really, unfortunatly I had seen this one before.
It jumped out then also. Yet I'm positive the computer
knows how to read my mind!! LOL

Thanks for sharing

> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
> bardsley@c...
> wrote:
> > Yeah, very cute, though the maths stuff always
> signals 'trick'. Did
> you see the one about picking cards on NDS recently?
> Cute also.
> Thanks for passing this one on Michael.
> >
> > Grant.
>
> Yes, I saw that one with the cards. I think Jerry
> did the first post
> on it on nds. It's another cutie. I remembered
> seeing that card trick
> a few years ago. But I had put it so far out of mind
> (as it were)
> that I had to solve the puzzle all over again.
>
> The way I puzzled the trick out was to pull back and
> simply observe
> what the trick did when no card was picked. Then the
> solution 'jumped
> out' so to speak.
>
> The card trick test of ESP can be found at
> http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/pickover/home.htm
>
> And for some hilarious 'explainations' of the test
>
> http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/pickover/esp4.html
>
> live laugh love and be happy,
>
> michael
>
>

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
• Ok - they always say that the simplist answer is usually the right one, so, as far as the ESP trick... Since we don t know what to expect, our habitual
Message 6 of 28 , Feb 27, 2003
Ok - they always say that the simplist answer is usually the right
one, so, as far as the ESP trick...
Since we don't know what to expect, our habitual commentary and other
mind chatter stops. This allows the universal consciousness to arise,
and of course that consciousness knows everything, including what card
we picked. Pretty obvious now that it's been explained, eh! :-)
Peace and blessings,
Bob
> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, bardsley@c...
> wrote:
> > Yeah, very cute, though the maths stuff always signals 'trick'. Did
> you see the one about picking cards on NDS recently? Cute also.
> Thanks for passing this one on Michael.
> >
> > Grant.
>
> Yes, I saw that one with the cards. I think Jerry did the first post
> on it on nds. It's another cutie. I remembered seeing that card trick
> a few years ago. But I had put it so far out of mind (as it were)
> that I had to solve the puzzle all over again.
>
> The way I puzzled the trick out was to pull back and simply observe
> what the trick did when no card was picked. Then the solution 'jumped
> out' so to speak.
>
> The card trick test of ESP can be found at
> http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/pickover/home.htm
>
> And for some hilarious 'explainations' of the test
>
> http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/pickover/esp4.html
>
> live laugh love and be happy,
>
> michael
• Hello, My ISP was down for a few days. That s about 400 mails. So I restate my request that whoever starts a thread, please could they send a summary at the
Message 7 of 28 , Feb 27, 2003
Hello,

My ISP was down for a few days. That's about 400 mails. So I restate my
request that whoever starts a thread, please could they send a summary at
the end of the thread. It would be a great help (to everyone) I think!

Meanwhile...

Could you post your top ten spiritual practices with some sort of rating -
something like this:

1) Meditation 10
2) Yahoo spiritual groups 7
3) Internet sites 5
4) Spiritual Books 5
5) Introspection 4
6) Presence (Now) 4
7) Observing Nature 4
8) Teaching 3
9) Observing my children 3
10) Church Service 2

My view of a spiritual practice is anything that raises your level of
consciousness. You might have a different view, which I would also very much
like to know.

• ... Karta: 1) Meditation 7 2) Yahoo spiritual groups 3 3) Internet sites 3 5 4) Spiritual Books 5 5)
Message 8 of 28 , Feb 28, 2003
tosime:
> Could you post your top ten spiritual practices with some sort of rating -
> something like this:
>
> 1) Meditation 10
> 2) Yahoo spiritual groups 7
> 3) Internet sites 5
> 4) Spiritual Books 5
> 5) Introspection 4
> 6) Presence (Now) 4
> 7) Observing Nature 4
> 8) Teaching 3
> 9) Observing my children 3
> 10) Church Service 2

Karta:

1) Meditation 7
2) Yahoo spiritual groups 3
3) Internet sites 3 5
4) Spiritual Books 5
5) Introspection 10 4
6) Presence (Now) 9 4
7) Observing Nature 4
8) Teaching ? 3
9) Observing my children ?
10) Church Service 0

> My view of a spiritual practice is anything that raises your level of
> consciousness. You might have a different view, which I would also very much
> like to know.
>
• ... Hi Tony, Yes, a summary... Everything you have listed equals nothing to do more or less of. You can do meditation, yet you already are doing meditation.
Message 9 of 28 , Feb 28, 2003
--- tosime <tosime@...> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> My ISP was down for a few days. That's about 400
> mails. So I restate my
> they send a summary at
> the end of the thread. It would be a great help (to
> everyone) I think!
>
> Meanwhile...
>
>
> Could you post your top ten spiritual practices with
> some sort of rating -
> something like this:
>
> 1) Meditation 10
> 2) Yahoo spiritual groups 7
> 3) Internet sites 5
> 4) Spiritual Books 5
> 5) Introspection 4
> 6) Presence (Now) 4
> 7) Observing Nature 4
> 8) Teaching 3
> 9) Observing my children 3
> 10) Church Service 2
>
> My view of a spiritual practice is anything that
> consciousness. You might have a different view,
> which I would also very much
> like to know.
>
Hi Tony,

Yes, a summary...
Everything you have listed equals nothing to do more
or less of.

You can do meditation, yet you already are doing
meditation. You can write and read yahoo groups, yet
can be introspective, yet you already are
introspecting. You can live in the now, yet you
already are living in the now. You can observe nature,
yet everything already is natural. You can teach,
study, learn, Yet you already teach, study, and learn.
Ahh my favorite, observing children, you already are
observing children. My least favorite, attending
church, again, you already attend church.

This all comes down to a big nothing, a zero. No
matter what you do, in your mind, this doing is
something you are already doing. There is no doing,
yet all is doing. Any words one can express, any doing
one does can be flipped to an opposite, I'm not doing
this or I'm not saying that. Two opposings cancel
there for a zero, nothing. Its a circle of opposing
factors which is the summary of all things, a zero, a
huge never ending, never begining circle. You don't
exist, yet you exists in the mind :)

Peace and Love

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
• ... other ... arise, ... card ... Yes, the joyous mystery of life! Wheeeeee... just a speck in a whirlwind. thanks Bob, michael
Message 10 of 28 , Feb 28, 2003
--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
> Ok - they always say that the simplist answer is usually the right
> one, so, as far as the ESP trick...
> Since we don't know what to expect, our habitual commentary and
other
> mind chatter stops. This allows the universal consciousness to
arise,
> and of course that consciousness knows everything, including what
card
> we picked. Pretty obvious now that it's been explained, eh! :-)
> Peace and blessings,
> Bob

Yes, the joyous mystery of life!
Wheeeeee... just a speck in a whirlwind.

thanks Bob,

michael
• Thanks Karta, Teaching for me refers to my training practice. I facilitate various courses. When it comes to interpersonal skills I sometimes feel myself in
Message 11 of 28 , Feb 28, 2003
Thanks Karta,

Teaching for me refers to my training practice. I facilitate various
courses. When it comes to interpersonal skills I sometimes feel myself in
the audience watching my presentation - it is almost an OBE.

Observing my children is a great delight. It is almost like recreating my
childhood experiences and understanding them in a new light. My little
daughter is an expert in "pulling people's strings" she knows just what to
say or do to get exactly the response she wants - it is awesome. The fun
part for me is watching my reactions being manipulated and deciding whether
to go with them or pass this time.

I am curious with the 10 you put for introspection. What is this for you?

...Tony

Karta:

1) Meditation 7
2) Yahoo spiritual groups 3
3) Internet sites 3 5
4) Spiritual Books 5
5) Introspection 10 4
6) Presence (Now) 9 4
7) Observing Nature 4
8) Teaching ? 3
9) Observing my children ?
10) Church Service 0

> My view of a spiritual practice is anything that raises your level of
> consciousness. You might have a different view, which I would also very
much
> like to know.
>

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
meditationsocietyofamerica-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
• Hi Jason, Thanks for EVERYTHING... ...Tony Yes, a summary... Everything you have listed equals nothing to do more or less of. You can do meditation, yet you
Message 12 of 28 , Feb 28, 2003
Hi Jason,

Thanks for EVERYTHING...

...Tony

Yes, a summary...
Everything you have listed equals nothing to do more
or less of.

You can do meditation, yet you already are doing
meditation. You can write and read yahoo groups, yet
can be introspective, yet you already are
introspecting. You can live in the now, yet you
already are living in the now. You can observe nature,
yet everything already is natural. You can teach,
study, learn, Yet you already teach, study, and learn.
Ahh my favorite, observing children, you already are
observing children. My least favorite, attending
church, again, you already attend church.

This all comes down to a big nothing, a zero. No
matter what you do, in your mind, this doing is
something you are already doing. There is no doing,
yet all is doing. Any words one can express, any doing
one does can be flipped to an opposite, I'm not doing
this or I'm not saying that. Two opposings cancel
there for a zero, nothing. Its a circle of opposing
factors which is the summary of all things, a zero, a
huge never ending, never begining circle. You don't
exist, yet you exists in the mind :)

Peace and Love

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
http://taxes.yahoo.com/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
meditationsocietyofamerica-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
• ... this sounds wonderful ... Thanks Tony for making it clear, i re did your questionnaire, since i value than teaching high. [ i hope i won t get spanked by
Message 13 of 28 , Feb 28, 2003
"tosime wrote:
> Teaching for me refers to my training practice. I facilitate various
> courses. When it comes to interpersonal skills I sometimes feel myself in
> the audience watching my presentation - it is almost an OBE.
>
> Observing my children is a great delight. It is almost like recreating my
> childhood experiences and understanding them in a new light. My little
> daughter is an expert in "pulling people's strings" she knows just what to
> say or do to get exactly the response she wants - it is awesome.

this sounds wonderful

> The fun
> part for me is watching my reactions being manipulated and deciding whether
> to go with them or pass this time.
>
> I am curious with the 10 you put for introspection. What is this for you?

Thanks Tony for making it clear, i
re did your questionnaire, since i value
than 'teaching' high. [ i hope i won't get spanked by the police because iam *searching* or some other stupid accusations they issue for those who read, practice meditation, or yoga ]

Introspection i started as kid my mom made me examine and think about the day before falling asleep. Now it means to do some vichara, i think what you listed as *presence* is my main focus

1) Meditation 8
2) Yahoo spiritual groups 3
3) Internet sites 3
4) Spiritual Books 5
5) Introspection 8
6) Presence (Now) 9
7) Observing Nature 4
8) Teaching 7
9) Observing my children ?
10) Church Service 0
>
>
>
> My view of a spiritual practice is anything that raises your level of
> consciousness. You might have a different
> view, which I would also very
> much like to know.

i have the same view Tony as yourselves,
PRACTICE IS ABOVE ALL no amount of
reading equals to it and meditation
leads to refinement of character and *UNDERSTANDING* aka higher consciousness

---love,
Karta
ps: i have difficulty meditating now..
>
.Tony
>
• No need to thank me :) there is nothing, but everything. Peace and Love ... http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Message 14 of 28 , Feb 28, 2003
No need to thank me :) there is nothing, but everything.

Peace and Love

> Hi Jason,
>
> Thanks for EVERYTHING...
>
> ...Tony
>
> Yes, a summary...
> Everything you have listed equals nothing to do more
> or less of.
>
> You can do meditation, yet you already are doing
> meditation. You can write and read yahoo groups, yet
> can be introspective, yet you already are
> introspecting. You can live in the now, yet you
> already are living in the now. You can observe nature,
> yet everything already is natural. You can teach,
> study, learn, Yet you already teach, study, and learn.
> Ahh my favorite, observing children, you already are
> observing children. My least favorite, attending
> church, again, you already attend church.
>
> This all comes down to a big nothing, a zero. No
> matter what you do, in your mind, this doing is
> something you are already doing. There is no doing,
> yet all is doing. Any words one can express, any doing
> one does can be flipped to an opposite, I'm not doing
> this or I'm not saying that. Two opposings cancel
> there for a zero, nothing. Its a circle of opposing
> factors which is the summary of all things, a zero, a
> huge never ending, never begining circle. You don't
> exist, yet you exists in the mind :)
>
> Peace and Love
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> meditationsocietyofamerica-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
• Hi Jason, This is quite a coincidence. After your post, the very next post I received was... ... the Great Nothing. It came one minute after yours. Is there
Message 15 of 28 , Feb 28, 2003
Hi Jason,

This is quite a coincidence. After your post, the very next post I received
was...

:-) Nothing is something, and Something is really nothing at all. T'ai Hsu
the "Great Nothing."

It came one minute after yours.

Is there some spiritual significance to "nothing"?

...Tony

-----Original Message-----
From: Jason <munkiman4u@...> [mailto:munkiman4u@...]
Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 1:38 AM
To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Top 10 spiritual practices
-Tony

No need to thank me :) there is nothing, but everything.

Peace and Love

> Hi Jason,
>
> Thanks for EVERYTHING...
>
> ...Tony
>
> Yes, a summary...
> Everything you have listed equals nothing to do more
> or less of.
>
> You can do meditation, yet you already are doing
> meditation. You can write and read yahoo groups, yet
> can be introspective, yet you already are
> introspecting. You can live in the now, yet you
> already are living in the now. You can observe nature,
> yet everything already is natural. You can teach,
> study, learn, Yet you already teach, study, and learn.
> Ahh my favorite, observing children, you already are
> observing children. My least favorite, attending
> church, again, you already attend church.
>
> This all comes down to a big nothing, a zero. No
> matter what you do, in your mind, this doing is
> something you are already doing. There is no doing,
> yet all is doing. Any words one can express, any doing
> one does can be flipped to an opposite, I'm not doing
> this or I'm not saying that. Two opposings cancel
> there for a zero, nothing. Its a circle of opposing
> factors which is the summary of all things, a zero, a
> huge never ending, never begining circle. You don't
> exist, yet you exists in the mind :)
>
> Peace and Love
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> meditationsocietyofamerica-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
meditationsocietyofamerica-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
• ... Well Tony, One can say spritual, one can say emotional, one can say physical, all of which leads to nothing. One can apparently be following what is called
Message 16 of 28 , Feb 28, 2003
--- tosime <tosime@...> wrote:
> Hi Jason,
>
> This is quite a coincidence. After your post, the
> very next post I received
> was...
>
> :-) Nothing is something, and Something is really
> nothing at all. T'ai Hsu
> the "Great Nothing."
>
> It came one minute after yours.
>
> Is there some spiritual significance to "nothing"?
>
> ...Tony

Well Tony, One can say spritual, one can say
emotional, one can say physical, all of which leads to
nothing.

One can apparently be following what is called a
spiritual path, meaning their spirit, their soul is
the key to unlocking some mystery. They can attempt to
be fullfilled by fantasizing they are some mystical
force that is housed within a physical body to reach
some enlightened phase. This souls search always comes
up short handed, usually with a person looking hard
enough saying, what a waste, what a nothing.

Now most of us already have come to terms with a
physical search. The more money one amasses, or things
a person obtains leds exactly the sasme place with,
what a waste of time, what a big nothing.

The emotion search is somewhat more tricky. Each
living being has a set of programs. To feel something
based on a set of conditions. To be angry when
threatened (for survival) to feel loved when cared for
(also for survival of a group) to feel sad of the
loss/change of someone or something (again for a
survival of the group). This again leds to nothing,
following your heart may give one emotional
understanding, yet when ones heart is yanked from
their insides (as the story goes) then that again leds
to the big emptiness of nothing.

There is a 4 factor in this 3-d world, that is the
tool of the mind which encompasses all of the factors.
To be a witness to the non eternal truth of each
(which are really the make up of a "you"), to
rationalize, experience and conceptualize knowledge
that turns understanding, into wisdom. This is the
heart of the matter, yet even when stepped back in
witness stance, this leds to the same truth. Nothing
(no-existance) is everything.

This is the eternal truth and a very tough pill to
swallow. To think that everything you have ever done
(in memory) is for not, for a big zero, that you don't
really exist (only in the now), well most cannot even
look at that pill let alone consume it into their very
being. There must be more! People tell themselves, we
want to survive, to be eternal, yet we already are
eternal. Everything that is our makup is eternal, yet
it's not ours, it is merely on loan till the contract
runs out, yet like it or not, at that point you face
the big nothing (no-understood-exsistance), which is
everything!

Someone once told me, one should practice to die
everynight before going to sleep, this way one is nice
and ready to live the next day! One should make that a
practice, it does quite well and one will be all ready
for death of form when the contract expires.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
• Hi Jason, This is fascinating stuff. Thanks for giving me a better understanding of the nothing perspective. I was very intrigued with the 4 factor , the
Message 17 of 28 , Mar 1, 2003
Hi Jason,

This is fascinating stuff. Thanks for giving me a better understanding of
the "nothing" perspective.

I was very intrigued with the "4 factor", the witness stance. There is one
aspect I would like more clarity on. When you say that the witness stance
leads to the same truth - nothing (non-existence) is everything; is this
from personal experience or from reasoning? If from personal experience I
would really appreciate a description of how you realized this. If it is
from reasoning, I wonder how we would know that any stance is the final
stance, so to speak. For instance, if we are witnessing the other dimensions
of our mind, would it be possible to witness ourselves witnessing? (I hope
this is not getting too complicated!).

I am simply guessing here. It would seem to me that complexity is the mind's
perspective. Pure experience is free from complexity and judgment and would
be very hard to talk about. The "nothing" perspective becomes a mind
construction. Of the millions of possible constructions, why choose
"nothing"?

I sense a kind of frustration here, like someone trying to explain an
experience in another dimension but not having any words which point
directly at the other dimension.

...Tony

-----Original Message-----
From: Jason Fishman [mailto:munkiman4u@...]
Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 8:54 AM
To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] #1 Life practice -Tony

--- tosime <tosime@...> wrote:
> Hi Jason,
>
> This is quite a coincidence. After your post, the
> very next post I received
> was...
>
> :-) Nothing is something, and Something is really
> nothing at all. T'ai Hsu
> the "Great Nothing."
>
> It came one minute after yours.
>
> Is there some spiritual significance to "nothing"?
>
> ...Tony

Well Tony, One can say spritual, one can say
emotional, one can say physical, all of which leads to
nothing.

One can apparently be following what is called a
spiritual path, meaning their spirit, their soul is
the key to unlocking some mystery. They can attempt to
be fullfilled by fantasizing they are some mystical
force that is housed within a physical body to reach
some enlightened phase. This souls search always comes
up short handed, usually with a person looking hard
enough saying, what a waste, what a nothing.

Now most of us already have come to terms with a
physical search. The more money one amasses, or things
a person obtains leds exactly the sasme place with,
what a waste of time, what a big nothing.

The emotion search is somewhat more tricky. Each
living being has a set of programs. To feel something
based on a set of conditions. To be angry when
threatened (for survival) to feel loved when cared for
(also for survival of a group) to feel sad of the
loss/change of someone or something (again for a
survival of the group). This again leds to nothing,
following your heart may give one emotional
understanding, yet when ones heart is yanked from
their insides (as the story goes) then that again leds
to the big emptiness of nothing.

There is a 4 factor in this 3-d world, that is the
tool of the mind which encompasses all of the factors.
To be a witness to the non eternal truth of each
(which are really the make up of a "you"), to
rationalize, experience and conceptualize knowledge
that turns understanding, into wisdom. This is the
heart of the matter, yet even when stepped back in
witness stance, this leds to the same truth. Nothing
(no-existance) is everything.

This is the eternal truth and a very tough pill to
swallow. To think that everything you have ever done
(in memory) is for not, for a big zero, that you don't
really exist (only in the now), well most cannot even
look at that pill let alone consume it into their very
being. There must be more! People tell themselves, we
want to survive, to be eternal, yet we already are
eternal. Everything that is our makup is eternal, yet
it's not ours, it is merely on loan till the contract
runs out, yet like it or not, at that point you face
the big nothing (no-understood-exsistance), which is
everything!

Someone once told me, one should practice to die
everynight before going to sleep, this way one is nice
and ready to live the next day! One should make that a
practice, it does quite well and one will be all ready
for death of form when the contract expires.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
http://taxes.yahoo.com/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
meditationsocietyofamerica-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
• ... Yeah, co-incidences. I just got done putting the art in place for the lead article in the next issue of The Inner Traveler. The title of the article and
Message 18 of 28 , Mar 1, 2003
> --- tosime <tosime@b...> wrote:
> > Hi Jason,
> >
> > This is quite a coincidence...

Jason Fishman <munkiman4u@y...> wrote:
>
> Someone once told me, one should practice to die
> everynight before going to sleep, this way one is nice
> and ready to live the next day! One should make that a
> practice, it does quite well and one will be all ready
> for death of form when the contract expires.
>
Yeah, co-incidences. I just got done putting the art in place for the
lead article in the next issue of The Inner Traveler. The title of the
article and meditation technique is "Death and How to Prepare For It".
Way cool that Jason mentions this exact thing in this Now. Gurdjieff
indicated more than once that the goofiest thing people did was to act
as if they were immortal and they had all the time in the world to get
down to serious "Work". Meditating on Death isn't alot of fun, that's
why it makes for excellent "Intentional Suffering". And Tonyji asks
"Is there some spiritual significance to "nothing"?" Well, that's a
significant point. Our ego's and body's, and emotions as well as our
thoughts are as nothing, have come from nothing, and will certainly be
nothing for billions of years. With this perspective in place, and it
actually always is, One is free of everything that happened to or is
happening to or will ever happen to the fantasy creature we have
constructed that we call "Me". This Me has alot of "somethings"
attached to it, and that's where our desire and thus our karma and
suffering comes in. Without "Me", we have Nothing, and thus nothing to
worry us. Unfortunatly we take that Me very seriously, and aren't
serious at all about what we should be serious about, and that is the
"Work" of annihilating this phantom person. So, as Chief Dan George
said many times in the excellent film Little Big Man, "Today is a good
day to die." And that is well worth meditating about.
Peace and blessings,
Bob
BTW, wait til you see the fantastic art that will be featured in the
article I mentioned. New artist for us, and certainly world quality,
as are all of our artists and authors. So, don't actually drop the
physical just yet! :-)
• ... Actualy Tony, what may really cook your noodle is the questions of... how can one of mind take on a perspective of no existance? Wouldn t one have to not
Message 19 of 28 , Mar 1, 2003
--- tosime <tosime@...> wrote:
> Hi Jason,
>
> This is fascinating stuff. Thanks for giving me a
> better understanding of
> the "nothing" perspective.

Actualy Tony, what may really cook your noodle is the
questions of... how can one of mind take on a
perspective of no existance? Wouldn't one have to not
exists to take that stance? And if one does not
exists, there would be no mind to experience this none
existance and come back to body to tell of it's
experience of no existance? Although I do understand
deeper then the one you poise below...

> I was very intrigued with the "4 factor", the
> witness stance. There is one
> aspect I would like more clarity on. When you say
> that the witness stance
> leads to the same truth - nothing (non-existence) is
> everything; is this
> from personal experience or from reasoning?

Personal experience is also reasoning, one has to rip
the seperation of conditions apart. You do not exist
or you exist in states are the only 2 seperations one
can define. Light or dark, for example.

If from
> personal experience I
> would really appreciate a description of how you
> realized this. If it is
> from reasoning, I wonder how we would know that any
> stance is the final
> stance, so to speak. For instance, if we are
> witnessing the other dimensions
> of our mind, would it be possible to witness
> ourselves witnessing? (I hope
> this is not getting too complicated!).

Not complicated, extremly simple when broken down into
existance and non-existance. As far as witnessing
oneself witnessing. Certainly, we can video tape
ourselves doing something. What you are asking, I
think, is to witness the mind at work. You and I are
writing each other, this seems seperated by 2 people
over a large distance, yet this is the same thing as
mind witnessing mind, you and I are not separate, only
of mind. You read my words and hear my perspective,
and breaks them down to logic that you can refer to,
no different then what I'm doing or your doing in the
listen to or read someone elses words.

> I am simply guessing here. It would seem to me that
> complexity is the mind's
> perspective. Pure experience is free from complexity
> and judgment and would
> be very hard to talk about. The "nothing"
> perspective becomes a mind
> construction. Of the millions of possible
> constructions, why choose
> "nothing"?

Ahh perfect question. Anything one can construct is
inside of this reality of existance (so to speak) yet
after you break down the complexity of whats really
going on, everyones truth sounds the same, every
manifestation one can procure becomes complete clarity
in simplicity. Everything brings one back to nothing,
over and over and over again, infinitely circular.
Heres a few questions you can ask yourself... Is it
just an irony that man has devised a number system
with a zero (a nothing) that is a simple circle? What
not an 8 to repesent nothing? Or is that just another
sumbliminal clue of what everything REALLY comes down
to? Existance is an infinite circle that is a zero, a
nothing.

> I sense a kind of frustration here, like someone
> trying to explain an
> experience in another dimension but not having any
> words which point
> directly at the other dimension.

Yes, in a sense that would be the case. Pointing to
nothing can really not be expressed, a dimension of
non-existance (see the "bake your noodle question
above"). Since one cannot go to non-existance and come
back to describe it. This leaves for infinite
possiblities within exsistance, none of which will not

> ...Tony

Peace and Love to you

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
• Very good Bob, I haven t dropped out of existance just this moment, but you d better hurry, you never know which moment you will realize fully that you don t
Message 20 of 28 , Mar 1, 2003
Very good Bob, I haven't dropped out of existance just
this moment, but you'd better hurry, you never know
which moment you will realize fully that you don't
exist!

Look forward to the new addition, How does one get an
inner traveler, BTW? I'm sure it was mentioned before,
yet it has seemed to have slipped my existing memory!

Peace and Love

> > --- tosime <tosime@b...> wrote:
> > > Hi Jason,
> > >
> > > This is quite a coincidence...
>
> Jason Fishman <munkiman4u@y...> wrote:
> >
> > Someone once told me, one should practice to die
> > everynight before going to sleep, this way one is
> nice
> > and ready to live the next day! One should make
> that a
> > practice, it does quite well and one will be all
> > for death of form when the contract expires.
> >
> Yeah, co-incidences. I just got done putting the art
> in place for the
> lead article in the next issue of The Inner
> Traveler. The title of the
> article and meditation technique is "Death and How
> to Prepare For It".
> Way cool that Jason mentions this exact thing in
> this Now. Gurdjieff
> indicated more than once that the goofiest thing
> people did was to act
> as if they were immortal and they had all the time
> in the world to get
> down to serious "Work". Meditating on Death isn't
> alot of fun, that's
> why it makes for excellent "Intentional Suffering".
> "Is there some spiritual significance to "nothing"?"
> Well, that's a
> significant point. Our ego's and body's, and
> emotions as well as our
> thoughts are as nothing, have come from nothing, and
> will certainly be
> nothing for billions of years. With this perspective
> in place, and it
> actually always is, One is free of everything that
> happened to or is
> happening to or will ever happen to the fantasy
> creature we have
> constructed that we call "Me". This Me has alot of
> "somethings"
> attached to it, and that's where our desire and thus
> our karma and
> suffering comes in. Without "Me", we have Nothing,
> and thus nothing to
> worry us. Unfortunatly we take that Me very
> seriously, and aren't
> serious at all about what we should be serious
> about, and that is the
> "Work" of annihilating this phantom person. So, as
> Chief Dan George
> said many times in the excellent film Little Big
> Man, "Today is a good
> day to die." And that is well worth meditating
> Peace and blessings,
> Bob
> BTW, wait til you see the fantastic art that will be
> featured in the
> article I mentioned. New artist for us, and
> certainly world quality,
> as are all of our artists and authors. So, don't
> actually drop the
> physical just yet! :-)
>
>

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
• ... what are you saying? please name the activities what lead you to something [which is nothing of course] sounds like j* rhetoric, she brutally distorts and
Message 21 of 28 , Mar 1, 2003
> Hi Jason,
>
> This is quite a coincidence. After your post, the
> very next post I received
> was...
>
> :-) Nothing is something, and Something is really
> nothing at all. T'ai Hsu
> the "Great Nothing."
>
> It came one minute after yours.
>
> Is there some spiritual significance to "nothing"?
>
> ...Tony
>
> Well Tony, One can say spiritual, one can say
> emotional, one can say physical, all of which leads to
> nothing.

what are you saying? please name the
activities what lead you to something
[which is nothing of course]

sounds like j* rhetoric, she
brutally distorts and simplifies
everything to make her point and
gives the impression to the ranch
members that they have a "special" *understanding* i hope this mutation
in thinking can be reversed
view is still possible

God is in the detail. I thing
it is admirable to learn the
fundamentalist black & white formula
and i enjoy the merry go around
word-games spinning from something
into nothing and than back again a
game the ranch elite loves to play..

>
> One can apparently be following what is called a
> spiritual path, meaning their spirit, their soul is
> the key to unlocking some mystery. They can attempt to

WRONG! spiritual exercize is like
the sports it is to optimise ones body-mind-spirit organism [spirit
like enthusiasm, will-power not your
teachers holy ghost on the way to
her Savior, NO NEED TO mystify all]

> be fulfilled by fantasizing they are some mystical
> force that is housed within a physical body to reach

WRONG! again there are forces in the
body like the force of an unavoidable
bowel movement when one is full of
shit and there is a force of a vacuum
after all the air is emptied form
the lungs, which force than will suck
fresh air in

and than there is the lifeforce energy
of a living organism on the tracks
of the nervous system and its plexuses
which with training can be
manipulated and used to refine the
state of this living organism to an
intelligence etc

> some enlightened phase.

YES! which phase one gains
*understanding*: of course i mean
the RIGHT understanding aka
enlightened consciousness

This souls search always comes
> up short handed, usually with a person looking hard

WRONG! it comes up exactly as it does
and as it IS

> enough saying, what a waste, what a nothing.
>

oh! the proverbial nothing which is something of course,

i say it is a time WELL spent

> Now most of us already have come to terms with a
> physical search. The more money one amasses, or things
> a person obtains leads exactly the same place with,
> what a waste of time, what a big nothing.
>
> The emotion search is somewhat more tricky.

clean and simple again: each activity is
boiled down to to the dirty word to:
*SEARCH* which of course leads to
is spinning iam getting dizzy

>Each
> living being has a set of programs. To feel something
> based on a set of conditions. To be angry when
> threatened (for survival) to feel loved when cared for
> (also for survival of a group) to feel sad of the
> loss/change of someone or something (again for a
> survival of the group). This again leads to nothing,

by now with your disappointments that everything leads to nothing i'm moved
to give you something.. i just don't
know what ...

> following your heart may give one emotional
> understanding, yet when ones heart is yanked from
> their insides (as the story goes) then that again leads
> to the big emptiness of nothing.
>
> There is a 4 factor in this 3-d world, that is the
> tool of the mind which encompasses all of the factors.
> To be a witness to the non eternal truth of each
> (which are really the make up of a "you"), to
> rationalize, experience and conceptualize knowledge
> that turns understanding, into wisdom. This is the
> heart of the matter, yet even when stepped back in
> witness stance, this leads to the same truth. Nothing
> (no-existance) is everything.
>
> This is the eternal truth and a very tough pill to
> swallow. To think that everything you have ever done
> (in memory) is for not, for a big zero, that you don't
> really exist (only in the now), well most cannot even
> look at that pill let alone consume it into their very
> being. There must be more! People tell themselves, we
> want to survive, to be eternal, yet we already are
> eternal. Everything that is our makup is eternal, yet
> it's not ours, it is merely on loan till the contract
> runs out, yet like it or not, at that point you face
> the big nothing (no-understood-exsistance), which is
> everything!
>
> Someone once told me, one should practice to die
> everynight before going to sleep, this way one is nice
> and ready to live the next day! One should make that a
> practice, it does quite well and one will be all ready
> for death of form when the contract expires.

I like to swim and it leads to nothing
i like to meditate searchlessly, yoga
makes me feel good, [FEEL GOO!!!? i
can hear the poliCe cursing UPON
HEARING THE OTHER DIRTY WORD] altho
i practice yoga without wanting to
feel good this is just as the way it is

i like to spend some of my time on
earth with meditation i noticed it
sharpened my intellect: it centers
and calms me and gives me something
else to do than to think about
nothing = something around and around

---love, Karta
• there are plenty of activities to chose from, and if you say you are a bundle of activities, than the best is to talk about your own: what you know don t ever
Message 22 of 28 , Mar 1, 2003
there are plenty of activities to chose
from, and if you say you are a bundle
of activities, than the best is to

don't ever think that your choice of
activities are superior to others

and do not assume why others do
anything even if it is called 'sadna"
just because you were exposed to a
very limited view about what spirituality is

----K

> Hi Jason,
>
> This is quite a coincidence. After your post, the
> very next post I received
> was...
>
> :-) Nothing is something, and Something is really
> nothing at all. T'ai Hsu
> the "Great Nothing."
>
> It came one minute after yours.
>
> Is there some spiritual significance to "nothing"?
>
> ...Tony
>
> > Jason: Well Tony, One can say spiritual, one can say
> >emotional, one can say physical, all of which leads to
> >nothing.
>
>
> Karta: what are you saying? please name the
> activities what lead you to something
> [which is nothing of course]
>
> sounds like j* rhetoric, she
> brutally distorts and simplifies
> everything to make her point and
> gives the impression to the ranch
> members that they have a "special" *understanding* i hope this mutation
> in thinking can be reversed
> re-examined and to broaden ones
> view is still possible
>
>
> God is in the detail. I thing
> it is admirable to learn the
> fundamentalist black & white formula
> and i enjoy the merry go around
> word-games spinning from something
> into nothing and than back again a
> game the ranch elite loves to play..
>
>
>
>
> >
> > One can apparently be following what is called a
> > spiritual path, meaning their spirit, their soul is
> > the key to unlocking some mystery. They can attempt to
>
> WRONG! spiritual exercize is like
> the sports it is to optimise ones body-mind-spirit organism [spirit
> like enthusiasm, will-power not your
> teachers holy ghost on the way to
> her Savior, NO NEED TO mystify all]
>
> > be fulfilled by fantasizing they are some mystical
> > force that is housed within a physical body to reach
>
> WRONG! again there are forces in the
> body like the force of an unavoidable
> bowel movement when one is full of
> shit and there is a force of a vacuum
> after all the air is emptied form
> the lungs, which force than will suck
> fresh air in
>
> and than there is the lifeforce energy
> of a living organism on the tracks
> of the nervous system and its plexuses
> which with training can be
> manipulated and used to refine the
> state of this living organism to an
> optimal point when it radiates
> intelligence etc
>
> > some enlightened phase.
>
> YES! which phase one gains
> *understanding*: of course i mean
> the RIGHT understanding aka
> enlightened consciousness
>
> This souls search always comes
> > up short handed, usually with a person looking hard
>
>
> WRONG! it comes up exactly as it does
> and as it IS
>
>
> > enough saying, what a waste, what a nothing.
> >
>
> oh! the proverbial nothing which is something of course,
>
>
> i say it is a time WELL spent
>
>
> > Now most of us already have come to terms with a
> > physical search. The more money one amasses, or things
> > a person obtains leads exactly the same place with,
> > what a waste of time, what a big nothing.
> >
> > The emotion search is somewhat more tricky.
>
> clean and simple again: each activity is
> boiled down to to the dirty word to:
> *SEARCH* which of course leads to
> is spinning iam getting dizzy
>
>
> >Each
> > living being has a set of programs. To feel something
> > based on a set of conditions. To be angry when
> > threatened (for survival) to feel loved when cared for
> > (also for survival of a group) to feel sad of the
> > loss/change of someone or something (again for a
> > survival of the group). This again leads to nothing,
>
>
> by now with your disappointments that everything leads to nothing i'm moved
> to give you something.. i just don't
> know what ...
>
>
> > following your heart may give one emotional
> > understanding, yet when ones heart is yanked from
> > their insides (as the story goes) then that again leads
> > to the big emptiness of nothing.
> >
> > There is a 4 factor in this 3-d world, that is the
> > tool of the mind which encompasses all of the factors.
> > To be a witness to the non eternal truth of each
> > (which are really the make up of a "you"), to
> > rationalize, experience and conceptualize knowledge
> > that turns understanding, into wisdom. This is the
> > heart of the matter, yet even when stepped back in
> > witness stance, this leads to the same truth. Nothing
> > (no-existance) is everything.
> >
> > This is the eternal truth and a very tough pill to
> > swallow. To think that everything you have ever done
> > (in memory) is for not, for a big zero, that you don't
> > really exist (only in the now), well most cannot even
> > look at that pill let alone consume it into their very
> > being. There must be more! People tell themselves, we
> > want to survive, to be eternal, yet we already are
> > eternal. Everything that is our makup is eternal, yet
> > it's not ours, it is merely on loan till the contract
> > runs out, yet like it or not, at that point you face
> > the big nothing (no-understood-exsistance), which is
> > everything!
> >
> > Someone once told me, one should practice to die
> > everynight before going to sleep, this way one is nice
> > and ready to live the next day! One should make that a
> > practice, it does quite well and one will be all ready
> > for death of form when the contract expires.
>
>
> I like to swim and it leads to nothing
> i like to meditate searchlessly, yoga
> makes me feel good, [FEEL GOO!!!? i
> can hear the poliCe cursing UPON
> HEARING THE OTHER DIRTY WORD] altho
> i practice yoga without wanting to
> feel good this is just as the way it is
>
> i like to spend some of my time on
> earth with meditation i noticed it
> sharpened my intellect: it centers
> and calms me and gives me something
> else to do than to think about
> nothing = something around and around
>
>
> ---love, Karta
• Jason Fishman wrote: snip ... Dear Jason, The Inner Traveler is available by subscription, free with a membership in the Meditation Society
Message 23 of 28 , Mar 1, 2003
Jason Fishman <munkiman4u@y...> wrote:

snip
> Look forward to the new addition, How does one get an
> inner traveler, BTW? I'm sure it was mentioned before,
> yet it has seemed to have slipped my existing memory!
>
> Peace and Love
>
Dear Jason,
The Inner Traveler is available by subscription, free with a
membership in the Meditation Society of America, or by writing
something or sharing artwork for it. Also, I sometimes post the URL
for issues here on this group. We also now have available a CD of the
first 10 issues. Info can be found on our web site, Meditation Station
http://www.meditationsociety.com
Here's the URL of our sample issue:
http://www.meditationsociety.com/it71808/index.html
Thanks for asking and I hope you enjoy and benefit from it if you do
check it out.
Peace and blessings,
Bob
• ... Any activity, this is what everything includes. For example you and I are having this conversation, you disagree with what is said, where does that get you
Message 24 of 28 , Mar 1, 2003
> what are you saying? please name the
> activities what lead you to something
> [which is nothing of course]

Any activity, this is what everything includes. For
example you and I are having this conversation, you
disagree with what is said, where does that get you in
your mind? Another example, you have all this great
knowledge then one day your mind goes blank (such as
amnesia or altzimers disease does over time) what do
YOU have left? Does that mean all those things you
experienced and knowledge you gained never happened?
How would you know? You can't do them over. Think

> sounds like j* rhetoric, she
> brutally distorts and simplifies
> everything to make her point and
> gives the impression to the ranch
> members that they have a "special" *understanding* i
> hope this mutation
> in thinking can be reversed
> re-examined and to broaden ones
> view is still possible
>

Karta, this is on my own, yet it's nothing special,
derived from thinking on my own and through the
teaching of everything. This is everything, how much

> God is in the detail. I thing
> it is admirable to learn the
> fundamentalist black & white formula
> and i enjoy the merry go around
> word-games spinning from something
> into nothing and than back again a
> game the ranch elite loves to play..

Of course god is in the detail. God IS everything,
everywhere every moment, you are not seperate from
god. There is no fundamentalism, yet everything is
fun-da-mental, light and dark, black and white. I'm
but they are not elite, nor have I been on the ranch
list. ALL are you, not seperate from you. Word spining
is conversations, tossing concepts to and fro which
amounts to nothing more then the moment which is based
on everything and nothing equally feeding on each
other.

All experiences are exsistant. As said before one
cannot go to no-exsistance and come back to tell of
ones experience there.

> >
> > One can apparently be following what is called a
> > spiritual path, meaning their spirit, their soul
> is
> > the key to unlocking some mystery. They can
> attempt to
>
> WRONG! spiritual exercize is like
> the sports it is to optimise ones body-mind-spirit
> organism [spirit
> like enthusiasm, will-power not your
> teachers holy ghost on the way to
> her Savior, NO NEED TO mystify all]

Certainly, you said the same thing I said, how can
either of us be correct?

> > be fulfilled by fantasizing they are some mystical
> > force that is housed within a physical body to
> reach
>
> WRONG! again there are forces in the
> body like the force of an unavoidable
> bowel movement when one is full of
> shit and there is a force of a vacuum
> after all the air is emptied form
> the lungs, which force than will suck
> fresh air in
>
> and than there is the lifeforce energy
> of a living organism on the tracks
> of the nervous system and its plexuses
> which with training can be
> manipulated and used to refine the
> state of this living organism to an
> optimal point when it radiates
> intelligence etc

Of course, These are all parts of you which is
everything. This does not desribe HOW phenomena happen
in exsistance. This is something to KNOW. If all of
the earth was wiped out where only the soil and water
remained, did your knowledge go anywhere? Do you feel
you take something with you when death comes? How can
you? Everything you have is stored in memory, is in
mind, do you take mind with you? Once your gone, you
will take nothing more then what you came in with,
which is nothing more then everything.

> > some enlightened phase.
>
> YES! which phase one gains
> *understanding*: of course i mean
> the RIGHT understanding aka
> enlightened consciousness

Yes, phase one, phase two, phase ten million, all the
same thing, amounts to everything, which is already
what you have.

> This souls search always comes
> > up short handed, usually with a person looking
> hard
>
>
> WRONG! it comes up exactly as it does
> and as it IS

When you complete these phases, what do you expect to
gain? Will you be special then? Seperate from all
others and everything?

> > enough saying, what a waste, what a nothing.
> >
>
> oh! the proverbial nothing which is something of
> course,
>
>
> i say it is a time WELL spent

Of course, what else will one do with the moments that
pass? It's all experiences that leads to knowledge,
that eventually give one wisdom, if those moments
arise that one is willing to ponder experience,
nothing more then what you already have.

>
> > Now most of us already have come to terms with a
> > physical search. The more money one amasses, or
> things
> > a person obtains leads exactly the same place
> with,
> > what a waste of time, what a big nothing.
> >
> > The emotion search is somewhat more tricky.
>
> clean and simple again: each activity is
> boiled down to to the dirty word to:
> *SEARCH* which of course leads to
> is spinning iam getting dizzy

HEHE, getting dizzy is fun! One can decide they are no
longer searching, but there is always knowledge to
gain, experiences to experience, all of which are the
same activity of existance.

> >Each
> > living being has a set of programs. To feel
> something
> > based on a set of conditions. To be angry when
> > threatened (for survival) to feel loved when cared
> for
> > (also for survival of a group) to feel sad of the
> > loss/change of someone or something (again for a
> > survival of the group). This again leads to
> nothing,
>
>
> by now with your disappointments that everything
> leads to nothing i'm moved
> to give you something.. i just don't
> know what ...

I have no disappointments, only freedom and clarity.
You can give me anything you'd like, yet I can only
retain the knowledge of your understanding for a
moment. Anything I do is what it is, then it's gone
before it's over, no different then you, it only
exists in memory.

> > following your heart may give one emotional
> > understanding, yet when ones heart is yanked from
> > their insides (as the story goes) then that again
> > to the big emptiness of nothing.
> >
> > There is a 4 factor in this 3-d world, that is the
> > tool of the mind which encompasses all of the
> factors.
> > To be a witness to the non eternal truth of each
> > (which are really the make up of a "you"), to
> > rationalize, experience and conceptualize
> knowledge
> > that turns understanding, into wisdom. This is the
> > heart of the matter, yet even when stepped back in
> > witness stance, this leads to the same truth.
> Nothing
> > (no-existance) is everything.
> >
> > This is the eternal truth and a very tough pill to
> > swallow. To think that everything you have ever
> done
> > (in memory) is for not, for a big zero, that you
> don't
> > really exist (only in the now), well most cannot
> even
> > look at that pill let alone consume it into their
> very
> > being. There must be more! People tell themselves,
> we
> > want to survive, to be eternal, yet we already are
> > eternal. Everything that is our makup is eternal,
> yet
> > it's not ours, it is merely on loan till the
> contract
> > runs out, yet like it or not, at that point you
> face
> > the big nothing (no-understood-exsistance), which
> is
> > everything!
> >
> > Someone once told me, one should practice to die
> > everynight before going to sleep, this way one is
> nice
> > and ready to live the next day! One should make
> that a
> > practice, it does quite well and one will be all
> > for death of form when the contract expires.
>
>
> I like to swim and it leads to nothing
> i like to meditate searchlessly, yoga
> makes me feel good, [FEEL GOO!!!? i
> can hear the poliCe cursing UPON
> HEARING THE OTHER DIRTY WORD] altho

Yup, all experiences exist in the mind, all will be
gone in the blink of an eye. Whats left? Nothing :)

Peace and love to you Karta

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
• ... Certainly Bob and thank you. I work in graphic arts. If you require something for your future publications, drop me a note and I ll see what can be done!
Message 25 of 28 , Mar 1, 2003
> Jason Fishman <munkiman4u@y...> wrote:
>
> snip
> > Look forward to the new addition, How does one get
> an
> > inner traveler, BTW? I'm sure it was mentioned
> before,
> > yet it has seemed to have slipped my existing
> memory!
> >
> > Peace and Love
> >
> Dear Jason,
> The Inner Traveler is available by subscription,
> free with a
> membership in the Meditation Society of America, or
> by writing
> something or sharing artwork for it. Also, I
> sometimes post the URL
> for issues here on this group. We also now have
> available a CD of the
> first 10 issues. Info can be found on our web site,
> Meditation Station
> http://www.meditationsociety.com
> Here's the URL of our sample issue:
> http://www.meditationsociety.com/it71808/index.html
> you
> at:
> Thanks for asking and I hope you enjoy and benefit
> from it if you do
> check it out.
> Peace and blessings,
> Bob

Certainly Bob and thank you. I work in graphic arts.
If you require something for your future publications,
drop me a note and I'll see what can be done!

Peace and Love

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
• ... This is what one knows, how could one tell you what you know? In your idea of assumptions... what assumptions are being made? No activities are any more or
Message 26 of 28 , Mar 1, 2003
--- "satkartar7 <mi_nok@...>" <mi_nok@...>
wrote:
> there are plenty of activities to chose
> from, and if you say you are a bundle
> of activities, than the best is to
>
> don't ever think that your choice of
> activities are superior to others
>
> and do not assume why others do
> anything even if it is called 'sadna"
> just because you were exposed to a
> very limited view about what spirituality is
>
> ----K

This is what one knows, how could one tell you what
you know? In your idea of assumptions... what
assumptions are being made? No activities are any more
or less of anything any other does, how could it be,
it all is the same thing underneath?
No limits to everything, yet only nothing remains.

Peace and Love

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
• ... If you look at zero you see nothing, but if you look through it you see the world
Message 27 of 28 , Mar 1, 2003
"tosime" <tosime@b...> wrote:
> Hi Jason,
>
> This is quite a coincidence. After your post, the very next post I received
> was...
>
> :-) Nothing is something, and Something is really nothing at all. T'ai Hsu
> the "Great Nothing."
>
> It came one minute after yours.
>
> Is there some spiritual significance to "nothing"?
>
> ...Tony

If you look at zero you see nothing, but if you look through it you
see the world

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jason <munkiman4u@y...> [mailto:munkiman4u@y...]
> Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 1:38 AM
> To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Top 10 spiritual practices
> -Tony
>
>
> No need to thank me :) there is nothing, but everything.
>
>
> Peace and Love
>
> > Hi Jason,
> >
> > Thanks for EVERYTHING...
> >
> > ...Tony
> >
> > Yes, a summary...
> > Everything you have listed equals nothing to do more
> > or less of.
> >
> > You can do meditation, yet you already are doing
> > meditation. You can write and read yahoo groups, yet
> > can be introspective, yet you already are
> > introspecting. You can live in the now, yet you
> > already are living in the now. You can observe nature,
> > yet everything already is natural. You can teach,
> > study, learn, Yet you already teach, study, and learn.
> > Ahh my favorite, observing children, you already are
> > observing children. My least favorite, attending
> > church, again, you already attend church.
> >
> > This all comes down to a big nothing, a zero. No
> > matter what you do, in your mind, this doing is
> > something you are already doing. There is no doing,
> > yet all is doing. Any words one can express, any doing
> > one does can be flipped to an opposite, I'm not doing
> > this or I'm not saying that. Two opposings cancel
> > there for a zero, nothing. Its a circle of opposing
> > factors which is the summary of all things, a zero, a
> > huge never ending, never begining circle. You don't
> > exist, yet you exists in the mind :)
> >
> > Peace and Love
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
> > http://taxes.yahoo.com/
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > meditationsocietyofamerica-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> meditationsocietyofamerica-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
• Jason Fishman wrote: Another example, you have all this great ... WHY? why would i think about such things ... One can dare to be real ...
Message 28 of 28 , Mar 2, 2003
Jason Fishman <munkiman4u@y...> wrote:
Another example, you have all this great
> knowledge then one day your mind goes blank (such as
> amnesia or altzimers disease does over time) what do
> YOU have left? Does that mean all those things you
> experienced and knowledge you gained never happened?
> How would you know? You can't do them over. Think
> about that, if you will.
>

WHY? why would i think about such things

> This is everything, how much
> broader view can one have?

One can dare to be real

>
> Of course, These are all parts of you which is
> everything. This does not desribe HOW phenomena happen
> in exsistance. This is something to KNOW. If all of
> the earth was wiped out where only the soil and water
> remained, did your knowledge go anywhere? Do you feel
> you take something with you when death comes? How can
> you? Everything you have is stored in memory, is in
> mind, do you take mind with you? Once your gone, you
> will take nothing more then what you came in with,
> which is nothing more then everything.
>

>
> Yes, phase one, phase two, phase ten million, all the
> same thing, amounts to everything, which is already
> what you have.
>

You Jason are a philosopher <smiles>

> One can decide they are no
> longer searching, but there is always knowledge to
> gain, experiences to experience, all of which are the
> same activity of existance.

oh! this obsession with the *search*

> This is the
> heart of the matter, yet even when stepped back in
> witness stance, this leads to the same truth.
> Nothing
> (no-existance) is everything.
>
> Yup, all experiences exist in the mind, all will be
> gone in the blink of an eye. Whats left? Nothing :)

ok Jason, i will keep in mind your
advice, that to 'search' is the
wrong activity and the notion of
the 'nothing' the later Gene's way
looking at the zero...

i am not a philosopher, ALL I
WANTED TO SAY is that: At times
when i dare to exist between nowhere
and somewhere between no ID and
a transient one to use what makes
me tick is getting into the *zone*
what is easy with sadna yoga and
meditation as i belive, that through
yoga practice consciousness can be
raised. And with higher
consciousness there IS [must be and
there is NOOOOO way around this]
a refinement of character an upgrade
in the ethics of action and yes!

Jason, i am glad; that what makes
you tick is not trolling the
*spiritual* as in: SPIRITUAL lists
with knocking meditation and yoga,
or what ever is listed as the aim
of the club is: and trying to
recruit normal people to some funny
farm boot-camp to be insulted

because i am fead up with that

----love,
Karta
>
> Peace and love to you Karta
Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.