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Re: [Meditation Society of America] A simple question.

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  • Melody
    ... and that s all that I yam. ... If that s what floats your boat, that s ok with me. ;-) Melody [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    Message 1 of 23 , Feb 3, 2003
      >I yam what I yam
      and that's all that I yam.

      >Ok, sweet potato?

      >Jeff



      If that's what floats your boat,
      that's ok with me.

      ;-)

      Melody


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • G <crystalkundalini@hotmail.com>
      ... apperception is only ... G: melody all that may be said is that your message stinks... where is that air freshener .. kundalini ends with realization
      Message 2 of 23 , Feb 3, 2003
        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Melody"
        <melodyande@c...> wrote:
        > > To speak
        > of previously held concepts as
        > reappearing in "realization" is to
        > put a square peg in a round hole.
        >
        > >None of the terms I used to describe
        > awakening or realization are conceptual.
        > They are beyond concept. Relativity
        > collapses, disappear with the
        > new perceptual condition! Words fail.
        >
        >
        >
        > I hear you say this, Jeff, and yet all the dialogues
        > on this list suggest otherwise! It suggests that
        > in all those who claim a "perceptual shift" they
        > are still very much looking thru the old perceptual
        > lens of "that's you, not me" most of the time.
        >
        > So I'm asking, what really has shifted? They are
        > still very much relating to the world as a person
        > OF the world, not AS the world:
        >
        > "I'm fine. But you're confused."
        >
        > "I'm not ever going to talk to you again."
        >
        > "You're just a 'yogi', I'm a realizer".
        >
        >
        > It appears to these eyes that the 'teachers'
        > and 'realizers' are going thru every bit the flip-flop of
        > perspective that the rest of us do. Do you
        > hear my meaning?.
        >
        >
        > As someone watching these displays
        > across the screen....listening to these
        > people who see it as their passion in
        > life to share their 'tremendous' realization,
        >
        > ....sometimes what they are really sharing
        > amounts to nothing more than a bunch of stinky
        > farts in a small crowded room.
        >
        > And when the smell of their farts is brought
        > to their attention, their response seems to be,
        > "oh, I just fart and then go on to the next
        > moment. I don't "suffer" any of that stuff
        > anymore."
        >
        > Well, good for you, your Fartiness, but
        > what you "let off" lingers in the air for
        > everyone else to be forced to breathe!
        >
        > I mean does it ever occur to them to
        > actually pay attention to this farting 'condition'...
        > to maybe look at their diet selections,
        > or at least be so observing of their biological
        > and psychological patternings....
        >
        > that when this 'gassiness' begins to arise
        > they could 'discharge' it somewhere else
        > other than in the room where they are trying
        > to bring an end to 'suffering'? (I mean, isn't
        > that just too funny?!)
        >
        > Do they ever "get it" that what gets 'taught' is
        > not what's on their lesson plan, but what
        > they do and say?
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > >Enlightenment frees us, but the ego
        > rises again in even the most enlightened,
        > I suspect, with rare, rare, exception.
        >
        >
        > Yes. And it is that rare, rare
        > exception (such as Jan B) who
        > is the first to tell us that
        > "apperception" or "enlightenment"
        > is only the first step. Jan B effectively reminds us that
        "apperception" is only
        > the first step. He reminds us that
        > there is a process of deconditioning...
        > kundalini style.....that remains
        >
        > until there are no more 'flip flops'
        > from the 'old' perspective back to
        > the 'new' one.
        >
        > Melody


        G: melody all that may be said is that your message stinks...
        where is that air freshener ..

        kundalini ends with realization and rises no more....

        shanti om ...g...
      • texasbg2000 <Bigbobgraham@aol.com>
        ... that apperception is only ... Hi Melody: I agree, Jan B. is a real find. The deconditioning phase was referred to by Ramana also, as a sort of
        Message 3 of 23 , Feb 3, 2003
          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Melody"
          <melodyande@c...> wrote:
          > > To speak
          > of previously held concepts as
          > reappearing in "realization" is to
          > put a square peg in a round hole.
          >
          > >None of the terms I used to describe
          > awakening or realization are conceptual.
          > They are beyond concept. Relativity
          > collapses, disappear with the
          > new perceptual condition! Words fail.
          >
          >
          >
          > I hear you say this, Jeff, and yet all the dialogues
          > on this list suggest otherwise!
          > >Enlightenment frees us, but the ego
          > rises again in even the most enlightened,
          > I suspect, with rare, rare, exception.
          >
          >
          > Yes. And it is that rare, rare
          > exception (such as Jan B) who
          > is the first to tell us that
          > "apperception" or "enlightenment"
          > is only the first step. Jan B effectively reminds us
          that "apperception" is only
          > the first step. He reminds us that
          > there is a process of deconditioning...
          > kundalini style.....that remains
          >
          > until there are no more 'flip flops'
          > from the 'old' perspective back to
          > the 'new' one.
          >
          > Melody


          Hi Melody:

          I agree, Jan B. is a real find. The deconditioning phase was
          referred to by Ramana also, as a sort of stabliizing or settling in
          where a lot of old stuff 'comes up'. He also mentioned the
          absorption of the ego and its reemergence as opposed to the
          destruction of the ego which is more rare.

          It is hard to talk about even if one is careful in referents. The
          word enlightened is taken by some to be to be a point in one's life,
          (so and so became enlightened at such and such time) and other times
          it means the "I am THAT" which is indescribable and
          incommunicable.

          One refers to a real time or ongoing non-event and the other to a
          cathartic non-experience. If you switch the two meanings without
          being aware of it then you aren't communicating any longer.

          Love
          Bobby G.
        • dan330033 <dan330033@yahoo.com>
          ... Yes, I agree, Jeff. And if it s true for experience, it is even moreso true of what has no attachment to or dependence on any particular experience
          Message 4 of 23 , Feb 3, 2003
            > All the semantic shuffling
            > and air fresheners in the
            > world won't resolve this
            > stinking language barrier.
            >
            > Experience is never at
            > the mercy of argument.
            >
            > The Canary Islands (where
            > Jan B lives) were named
            > for dogs. Words can really
            > confuse people.
            >
            > I yam what I yam
            > and that's all that I yam.

            Yes, I agree, Jeff.

            And if it's true for experience,
            it is even moreso true of what
            has no attachment to
            or dependence on any particular
            experience whatsoever.

            -- Dan
          • Melody
            ... referred to by Ramana also, as a sort of stabliizing or settling in where a lot of old stuff comes up . He also mentioned the absorption of the ego and
            Message 5 of 23 , Feb 3, 2003
              >Hi Melody:

              >I agree, Jan B. is a real find. The deconditioning phase was
              referred to by Ramana also, as a sort of stabliizing or settling in
              where a lot of old stuff 'comes up'. He also mentioned the
              absorption of the ego and its reemergence as opposed to the
              destruction of the ego which is more >rare.



              Jan has often spoken of the Yoga-Sutras
              of Patanjali, as well as some of the Rosicruscian
              material (specifically a book, "The Coming New Man" by a dutch fellow named J. van Rijcknborgh)......

              literature he said helped him to understand
              the process that he went through.

              I have translation copies of both, but admittedly
              I haven't been inclined yet to read thru them....
              it's not what you would call "light reading".

              :-)


              Melody



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • texasbg2000 <Bigbobgraham@aol.com>
              ... fellow named J. van Rijcknborgh)...... ... Thanks for the info. bg
              Message 6 of 23 , Feb 3, 2003
                >
                > Jan has often spoken of the Yoga-Sutras
                > of Patanjali, as well as some of the Rosicruscian
                > material (specifically a book, "The Coming New Man" by a dutch
                fellow named J. van Rijcknborgh)......
                > :-)
                >
                >
                > Melody
                >

                Thanks for the info.

                bg
              • tosime
                First let me say how grateful I am for everyone who posts here. I have read so many knowledgeable, insightful posts that I find it very hard to skip any post.
                Message 7 of 23 , Feb 4, 2003
                  First let me say how grateful I am for everyone who posts here. I have read
                  so many knowledgeable, insightful posts that I find it very hard to skip any
                  post. Again and again I find myself shaking my head at the insight I have
                  gained from such excellent posts. I was up very late last night just trying
                  to catch up!


                  I have a suggestion. As we read the posts, can we pick one which we feel is
                  our "post of the week".

                  After editing it to focus on the part of most interest, we can post it with
                  an introduction saying why it was the post of the week for us. We should
                  give it the subject heading post of the week from...(our name).

                  This post of the week has several benefits.

                  1) Focus. When I travel, I usually come back to find literally hundreds of
                  posts. I often file them wondering how many excellent posts I have missed.
                  With post of the week, I can open those first and decide if I want to follow
                  those threads.

                  2) Feedback. When you write an excellent post you may not get much feedback.
                  With post of the week, people are encouraged to give you interesting
                  feedback which could help you see different angles to your post.

                  3) Self development. The act of writing a response often opens new aspects
                  of the original post you did not appreciate just from reading it. Something
                  magical happens when you write your thoughts.

                  4) New threads. I feel post of the week will encourage new threads. My guess
                  is that these new threads will generally be higher quality threads that are
                  neatly edited.

                  I hope we can be sincere in our post of the week, so we do not use it an
                  avenue for ego trips.

                  What do you think?

                  PS - I will do one to show what it looks like.
                • G <crystalkundalini@hotmail.com>
                  ... I have read ... to skip any ... insight I have ... just trying ... which we feel is ... it with ... We should ... hundreds of ... have missed. ... want to
                  Message 8 of 23 , Feb 4, 2003
                    --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tosime"
                    <tosime@b...> wrote:
                    > First let me say how grateful I am for everyone who posts here.
                    I have read
                    > so many knowledgeable, insightful posts that I find it very hard
                    to skip any
                    > post. Again and again I find myself shaking my head at the
                    insight I have
                    > gained from such excellent posts. I was up very late last night
                    just trying
                    > to catch up!
                    >
                    >
                    > I have a suggestion. As we read the posts, can we pick one
                    which we feel is
                    > our "post of the week".
                    >
                    > After editing it to focus on the part of most interest, we can post
                    it with
                    > an introduction saying why it was the post of the week for us.
                    We should
                    > give it the subject heading post of the week from...(our name).
                    >
                    > This post of the week has several benefits.
                    >
                    > 1) Focus. When I travel, I usually come back to find literally
                    hundreds of
                    > posts. I often file them wondering how many excellent posts I
                    have missed.
                    > With post of the week, I can open those first and decide if I
                    want to follow
                    > those threads.
                    >
                    > 2) Feedback. When you write an excellent post you may not get
                    much feedback.
                    > With post of the week, people are encouraged to give you
                    interesting
                    > feedback which could help you see different angles to your
                    post.
                    >
                    > 3) Self development. The act of writing a response often opens
                    new aspects
                    > of the original post you did not appreciate just from reading it.
                    Something
                    > magical happens when you write your thoughts.
                    >
                    > 4) New threads. I feel post of the week will encourage new
                    threads. My guess
                    > is that these new threads will generally be higher quality
                    threads that are
                    > neatly edited.
                    >
                    > I hope we can be sincere in our post of the week, so we do not
                    use it an
                    > avenue for ego trips.
                    >
                    > What do you think?
                    >
                    > PS - I will do one to show what it looks like.


                    G: sounds like a most *excellent* idea...... thanks for coming up
                    with it.....

                    shanti om ..g...
                  • dragonpuffs7777
                    I choose the one you just wrote! ... have read ... to skip any ... I have ... just trying ... we feel is ... post it with ... should ... hundreds of ...
                    Message 9 of 23 , Feb 4, 2003
                      I choose the one you just wrote!



                      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tosime"
                      <tosime@b...> wrote:
                      > First let me say how grateful I am for everyone who posts here. I
                      have read
                      > so many knowledgeable, insightful posts that I find it very hard
                      to skip any
                      > post. Again and again I find myself shaking my head at the insight
                      I have
                      > gained from such excellent posts. I was up very late last night
                      just trying
                      > to catch up!
                      >
                      >
                      > I have a suggestion. As we read the posts, can we pick one which
                      we feel is
                      > our "post of the week".
                      >
                      > After editing it to focus on the part of most interest, we can
                      post it with
                      > an introduction saying why it was the post of the week for us. We
                      should
                      > give it the subject heading post of the week from...(our name).
                      >
                      > This post of the week has several benefits.
                      >
                      > 1) Focus. When I travel, I usually come back to find literally
                      hundreds of
                      > posts. I often file them wondering how many excellent posts I have
                      missed.
                      > With post of the week, I can open those first and decide if I want
                      to follow
                      > those threads.
                      >
                      > 2) Feedback. When you write an excellent post you may not get much
                      feedback.
                      > With post of the week, people are encouraged to give you
                      interesting
                      > feedback which could help you see different angles to your post.
                      >
                      > 3) Self development. The act of writing a response often opens new
                      aspects
                      > of the original post you did not appreciate just from reading it.
                      Something
                      > magical happens when you write your thoughts.
                      >
                      > 4) New threads. I feel post of the week will encourage new
                      threads. My guess
                      > is that these new threads will generally be higher quality threads
                      that are
                      > neatly edited.
                      >
                      > I hope we can be sincere in our post of the week, so we do not use
                      it an
                      > avenue for ego trips.
                      >
                      > What do you think?
                      >
                      > PS - I will do one to show what it looks like.
                    • satkartar7 <mi_nok@yahoo.com>
                      ... i double your vote dragon k
                      Message 10 of 23 , Feb 4, 2003
                        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, dragonpuffs7777 <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                        > I choose the one you just wrote!
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tosime"
                        > <tosime@b...> wrote:
                        > > First let me say how grateful I am for everyone who posts here. I
                        > have read
                        > > so many knowledgeable, insightful posts that I find it very hard
                        > to skip any
                        > > post. Again and again I find myself shaking my head at the insight
                        > I have
                        > > gained from such excellent posts. I was up very late last night
                        > just trying
                        > > to catch up!
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > I have a suggestion. As we read the posts, can we pick one which
                        > we feel is
                        > > our "post of the week".
                        > >
                        > > After editing it to focus on the part of most interest, we can
                        > post it with
                        > > an introduction saying why it was the post of the week for us. We
                        > should
                        > > give it the subject heading post of the week from...(our name).
                        > >
                        > > This post of the week has several benefits.
                        > >
                        > > 1) Focus. When I travel, I usually come back to find literally
                        > hundreds of
                        > > posts. I often file them wondering how many excellent posts I have
                        > missed.
                        > > With post of the week, I can open those first and decide if I want
                        > to follow
                        > > those threads.
                        > >
                        > > 2) Feedback. When you write an excellent post you may not get much
                        > feedback.
                        > > With post of the week, people are encouraged to give you
                        > interesting
                        > > feedback which could help you see different angles to your post.
                        > >
                        > > 3) Self development. The act of writing a response often opens new
                        > aspects
                        > > of the original post you did not appreciate just from reading it.
                        > Something
                        > > magical happens when you write your thoughts.
                        > >
                        > > 4) New threads. I feel post of the week will encourage new
                        > threads. My guess
                        > > is that these new threads will generally be higher quality threads
                        > that are
                        > > neatly edited.
                        > >
                        > > I hope we can be sincere in our post of the week, so we do not use
                        > it an
                        > > avenue for ego trips.
                        > >
                        > > What do you think?
                        > >
                        > > PS - I will do one to show what it looks like.


                        i double your vote dragon

                        k
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